Dog Soldiers (2002)

Episode 393, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys in a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, God, I just think we could keep this werewolf thing going forever, because I’m actually having a ball finding all these different werewolf movies and doing it. And I’ve never been terribly obsessed with werewolves myself, and I think it was just kind of realizing the fact that there are a whole bunch of werewolf movies out there, many of which I’ve been wanting to see and haven’t seen.

This movie that we’re doing now is 2002’s Dog Soldiers, and my dad, who you know, Isn’t a huge horror fan. Actually, he’s not a horror fan really at all, but he saw this movie probably 15 years ago and reached out to me and was like, Todd, you need to see this movie. This movie is great. It’s Dog Soldiers.

It’s a horror movie. I loved it. And I have, I probably think about it once every three months, every three months or so I think, Oh my God, my dad like recommended a horror movie to me. I should probably see it. And I think because I’m not big into military movies. I was like, okay, Dog Soldiers? Okay, I’ll get around to it.

So, it’s been one of those movies that I’ve been wanting to see forever. The director, Neil Marshall, has gone on to do incredible things based on this, his very first feature length film directorial debut. He had only done shorts before this. Since this, he’s gone on to do so much stuff, including Writing and directing one of, I think, our favorite horror movies, The Descent, right?

Craig: Yeah. You’re a big fan of that

Todd: And we did that on this podcast. He’s got 13 producer credits to his name, three upcoming. He’s written a number of things. Like 11 things. He’s directed 18, two more up and coming. He was a director on the TV series Hannibal. He directed an episode of Game of Thrones. He did a segment from Tales of Halloween that we absolutely loved.

He’s directed some stuff on Westworld. He was involved in 2019’s Hellboy, which he has disassociated himself with because he said it was his worst professional experience of his life. He hated it. He doesn’t want to have anything to do with it. And, uh, I don’t know. I can’t speak for everybody in the world, but I don’t think the 2019 version of Hellboy was quite as well received as the earlier one.

Anyway, my point is, this guy has gone on to do great things on the basis of this ultimately low budget film. It’s like a 2. 1 million dollar movie. Neil Marshall himself has said, By 2001 standards, this was a low budget movie, but by today’s standards, you, with digital photography, and you can kind of do so much of it yourself, you could make a movie like this even cheaper.

Still, it made a mark. It’s still a big favorite. It’s a cult favorite. It’s still real, really well loved in the UK and other places. Did not get a wide release in the US. Sadly, it went straight to the SyFy channel, which he was very upset about, but he, Blames out on the producers. He says the producers were just a little shy about what they had and kind of took the first deal that was offered to them.

But I have seen this movie pop up on numerous lists. A lot of people cite it as a movie you need to watch. And so, uh, I was super happy to finally get around to doing it. It seemed like you were just as enthusiastic to see it as I was, or, or was this your first time seeing it? Did you seen it before? 

Craig: Oh, no, no, this was my first time seeing it and several things.

One. Your dad not being a big fan of horror movies has really good taste in horror movies. He also, together, the three of us, did Train to Busan, which I still think is one of the best movies I’ve seen. Period. Period, right? Yeah, it’s such a great movie. And, and yes, there is a lot of hype around this movie.

I told you, when we were talking about doing it, we were going back and forth a little bit. You were kind of interested in sticking in that same year, like 80. Three or whatever year that all those werewolf movies came out and I was like, I know, but I really want to do dog sold.

Because I have known about this movie since it came out like people have been talking about it since it came out. When I went to IMDB yesterday, To look this up, I scanned down to the reviews and the, you know, the very first displayed review was like a, I don’t know what their rating system is, but you read it and was like, um, this is arguably the best werewolf movie ever.

And so I was super stoked and I was so confident in it. That because you and I, based on scheduling, that’s boring to you listeners, had to watch two movies yesterday. I ended up needing to watch this last minute and I’m like, Ellen, do you want to watch this werewolf movie with me? Like it’s really popular and people say it’s like the greatest werewolf movie.

And we watched it. He was like, Oh, I don’t know, man. Like, I’m really interested to hear what your thoughts were on it. Because I was really surprised by my reaction to it because I, I thought it was going to be great. And I thought we were going to sit here today and talk about how great it was. Right. I don’t know.

Todd: You know, it has elements. There are things I really like about this movie. I would say the thing I like the most about this movie There are two things I like the most about this movie. Number one, I like that it Maybe because we kind of recently came off of Predator, right? So we had this sort of monster in the jungle with a military aspect to it.

I was getting To a certain extent in this movie a bit of the predator vibes 

Craig: it’s very predator the werewolves have predator vision except it’s in black and white like in the military element of it I also wondered you mentioned that I your dad is a military man I wondered if that was part of the 

Todd: appeal I think he likes that kind of stuff yeah so I mean it had that element to it which I like so I mean it’s a horror movie.

It’s an action movie. It’s maybe more of an action movie than a horror movie, much like Predator, right? Like, uh, it’s a horror movie because it’s, it’s gross. It’s got a lot of gore. It’s got a supernatural element to it. Predator, even maybe not even supernatural, technically, but sci fi, but right. In any case, they’re kind of the same thing, like creatures that don’t exist or coming in and with the military people who should be up for the task, but are being overwhelmed by this force.

Right? So, yeah, I thought that was cool. Like, you don’t, Actually see a lot of that. Maybe not enough of that. And so definitely in the werewolf genre, it feels like something a little unique. So I was happy to see because also my stated goal, as I’ve said, I don’t know, one or two episodes ago was I wanted us to do a variety of werewolf movies that kind of covered a whole swath of subgenres.

And so I thought this fit in perfectly. I don’t know if there are any more military werewolf movies. This is the only one I know of. So I like that bit of it. The other thing I really liked about it was the creature design. It was Upright, it was very condescending werewolves. They were really high and they were big and they were frightening.

It showed its low budget by, you know, not giving you too much of the creatures, but unlike a lot of really low budget movies that we do, it wasn’t scared to show us enough of the creatures. It was to a, to a degree where it would get in there and it would show us the werewolves in flashes and things like that.

But I never felt like they were trying to compensate for their low budget by hiding it excessively. Do you know 

Craig: what I mean? That’s true. No, I do know what you mean. And, and the werewolf reveal is gradual. 

Todd: No, you’re right. The werewolf reveal is gradual. And that’s kind of a low budget thing, right? But like once they’re out and they’re fighting and they’re doing their thing, like, I never felt cheated.

You watch a Monster movie, you want to see a monster and you wanna see a lot of the monster. And I almost feel like your satisfaction with the Monster movie relies on two things. Number one, how much of the monster are you gonna see? Flat out on the screen and number two, when you do see the monster, are you gonna be laughing at it or are you gonna be like, Oh, that’s really badass.

That’s really cool. And for this movie, it fulfilled the first. I saw a lot of the monster number the second. I wasn’t laughing at it. Did I think it was super badass? Did I think they were the best werewolves we’ve seen so far? No, but I really respected the fact that they kept everything animatronic and real and like, they didn’t go to CGI at all.

At this time, when this movie came out, 2002 Jurassic Park had not been out too long and, uh, you know, CGI was kind of in its infancy and they were, well, it’s a low budget, I mean, CGI 

Craig: gets expensive. I think 

Todd: it does. But they were explicitly worried that if they tried to release it, too much on CGI, it would just look fake and people would be disappointed.

And so they made a conscious decision against CGI, and you and I both respect and love that. So, for that aspect of it, I love it too. That said, I can’t wait to talk about the details of the plot, because there were bits of this movie that confused me. There were bits of this movie where I was like, rolling my eyes, like, Oh my God, like, do not expect me to buy this.

Craig: Oh boy. Let me respond to the werewolf design and then we can talk about the lunacy that is this movie. I feel bad saying this, but I really didn’t care for it, the, the design, and, and I think that the re, in close up, I thought it looked great, like anytime they were in close up on like the werewolves, like maw, like that looked fantastic and scary and I liked it, but when it was the full werewolf, I don’t even know.

God, I didn’t read the trivia. I am so unprepared. This is the most unprepared I’ve ever been. I don’t know how they did it, but it looked like I was at a ballet about werewolves. Like it just looked like very fit. People with like, a shoulder headpiece on. You really didn’t 

Todd: read the trivia. I didn’t read anything!

So, I’ve gotta credit you because, ironically enough, if you read the trivia, you will find that Neil Marshall recruited dancers to play the werewolves, specifically ballet dancers, because yeah, he wanted this like, kind of like the motion and kind of like the, the grant, he felt that dancers could better portray the werewolves than just like big burly stunt guys.

So there were literal ballet dancers in the werewolf costumes. They were on stilts and they also The sets were smaller, well, especially when they were shooting the werewolves. They built the sets just a little bit smaller so that they would have to hunch over more and they would appear to tower over everybody.

So, yeah, you’re not off the mark there. 

Craig: And now that, now that I know that’s true and that that’s what he was going for, like, thumbs up.

Todd: I don’t know. I think he was going for graceful ballet dancing werewolves, to be fair. But 

Craig: there are just so many things, like, I have so many questions. Like, as soon as Alan and I started watching this movie, I was getting on my phone to make sure that we were watching the right movie, because this movie was made in 2002.

And I was like, no, This is clearly a movie that was made in the 70s. My video quality was poor. I streamed it on Hulu. My video quality looked like it was something that was shot on film in the 70s. Oh yeah. That movie that you hate about like the wild man in the woods. What is that movie? Don’t go in the woods.

Yeah. That’s what it looked like. Oh, yes. Oh my God. No, like seriously. There were lines in the film. Like it looked like it was on film 

Todd: and there 

Craig: were cigarette burns. 

Todd: No cigarette burn. You stream this on Amazon, 

Craig: on Hulu, 

Todd: on Hulu. 

Craig: Yes, I don’t know what print it came from, but I was really worried that I was watching the wrong movie that I looked it up and I wasn’t and then ultimately, as I got into it, I literally turned to Alan and I said, This has to be a choice.

It has to be. There’s no other explanation for it. And it fit the movie. It feels like a movie that was made in the seventies. All those low shots up at it. Trees and shit. We have seen that in other 70s movies. I have no idea. I don’t know if Hulu just got a bad cut of 

Todd: it. I don’t know. I feel like what I watched had been cleaned up.

However, it’s also interesting that you say that. Because, apparently, when they went to go and do the Blu ray release of this film, like, to properly release it, you know, this was a low budget film. It was shot in, it’s, it’s shot in Scotland and Luxembourg and a bunch of places. It’s an independent film, it was.

And so Neil Marshall said that they didn’t think they could release it because all the original stuff had been, basically they lost it all. Like nobody had it. Nobody was taking care of it. Big budget movies are shot at studios that care about their product and they keep it and they hold on to it and they preserve it.

And this movie, they thought they had lost all of the original stuff and a path. Happened to have two prints of it that he said by some miracle were sent to us. Pathé is in Italy, it’s a studio and apparently, I don’t know, I don’t know all the details, but anyway, they had two prints of it that they managed to send to them and from those two prints of the film, they were able to salvage and release a Blu ray, so maybe some of the film, well, clearly some of the film quality you’re talking about, especially the cigarette burn bit, those only come from prints, those don’t come from the negatives, those come from reels you need to change, right?

Craig: It happened twice. I, I had convinced myself the first time that I had hallucinated it. I thought, no, surely not, surely not. But then it happened again. I’m actually a little bit sad that you didn’t see it like that because eventually, like, I felt like that was the vibe of the, it feels like an, it doesn’t feel like a movie from 2002.

It almost feels kind of grind housey. 

Todd: Oh, no, that it does. Uh, no, I agree with you. And I think it’s even more than just the film quality. I think the, again, it’s probably due to the low budget nature of it and what they had to do, they had to submit to the same tricks that grind house films have to do to kind of, 

Craig: yeah, I don’t want to suggest based on my comments about the film, like the actual video quality, I don’t want to suggest that it’s shot poorly because I don’t think that it is at all.

I think that it’s shot really. In a very smart way, but. In a way that again seems more like what we would see it at times reminded me of like cannibal holocaust like yeah handheld close shots of people’s faces just kind of observational Shooting about yeah, especially with all those soldiers. We haven’t even started talking about what the movie is about

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I swear to God, in the first 10 minutes, there’s an interesting opening shot or scene, which we should probably talk about. But within the first 10 minutes, when we’re introduced to this troop of soldiers, I looked at Alan and I said, Oh, great. It’s a bunch of soldiers that all look exactly the same. Yeah, there’s no way that I am.

Ever going to know who is who and I never did ever know, like there’s one guy named Cooper who’s like the main guy, but then the rest of them were like guts out guy.

There’s a guy named spoon. Yeah, but I couldn’t tell you who that was. 

Todd: Yeah, I know. I 

Craig: couldn’t, I have no idea. 

Todd: Yeah. No, that would be one criticism of the film, but for an action film, it doesn’t tend to matter. 

Craig: It does, it doesn’t matter. 

Todd: It’s, 

Craig: all these characters It is so much like Predator. You’re, but you were right.

It is so much like Predator. It’s just a different antagonist, but in Predator, all of those guys were distinct, like they had distinct looks. They had distinct personalities in this movie. It’s like six guys and they all look exactly the same. 

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: exactly the same. 

Todd: It’s true. But, but you know what, I don’t think we’re obligated really to be able to like, uh, come do character names and things like that because ultimately it really doesn’t matter.

Like, it’s just gonna be a bunch of people fighting werewolves. There isn’t a lot of real drama between the people. They argue and they fight. say things to each other and stuff like that, or they allude to things that happened in the past or some beefs or whatnot, but like ultimately none of it really matters to the story and it’s not real heavy.

Honestly, at some point it becomes night, night of the living dead, where they’re just stuck in a house that’s being besieged and they need to defend these guys off. And this movie is so. Chalk full of references to other movies that is it? Oh God. Yeah. Oh, I 

Craig: didn’t read the trivia. What? 

Todd: Okay, good. Tell me, I’m excited.

There’s a lot of them. I mean, there’s so many, I mean, I think as we go through the plot as we do, we’ll get to them, but like here’s evil dead vibes. There’s like I said, night of the living dead vibes. There’s character names. Like one of them is called Henry G Wells or something. I mean, There’s just so many, like, little nods, actually there’s so many in here that you could just tell the director got super excited and there’s, there’s shit that’s so esoteric that you would never piece it together unless you watch this movie a hundred times or you read the trivia on IMDb, like that is how chock full of, of references to other films it is.

Craig: Well, I’m Disappointed that I failed in my duty to educate myself this time around because honestly, like I feel like there’s not a whole lot to talk about. The plot is 

Todd: so simple. It is super simple, dude. I’m just just while we’re talking about it, literally when Megan cuts her hand on the window, you remember that moment?

Yes, there is a very, very small segment of music from the company of wolves. That is how minutely referential, like, elements of this movie are to other movies. 

Craig: That’s so funny, because that’s one of the only moments that I was like, Oh, that’s important. Like, like they make a big deal out of it. Like, she cuts her head and then she looks at it like, I know.

You’re like, Oh, is she a werewolf now? You’re like, put a pin in this, right? Right.

Oh, man. Megan. Oh God. Yes, please. Please. You do it because it is so simple. Like, I feel like you can do it and like, it’s okay 

Todd: because we’re not talking about just the plot, but like it starts out with these two guys. God, I wish I could remember their names, but I can’t. Ryan is the name of the, the superior.

He’s played by Lane Cooper. 

Craig: Ryan and Cooper are the only two names you need to know. No, excuse me. Ryan Cooper and Megan, the only girl. Three names that keep track of those. Ryan, Cooper, and Megan. 

Todd: Liam Cunningham plays Ryan, and you will recognize him, particularly if you’re a Game of Thrones fan. He was, uh, Davos Seaworth in Game of Thrones.

Uh, he’s been in a hundred and fourteen movies. Like, I, I’ve never watched Game of Thrones, and I instantly recognized this guy. So, he’s a, a very, very prolific actor on television, on movies, pretty much equally. I feel like Cooper was familiar to me too, but I couldn’t immediately call up how or why. But anyway, it does a little bit of a fake out where they’re military guys in the woods, and there’s some shit going on, and they’re doing some fighting, and then, I don’t remember exactly how it all goes down, but at some Point there’s a dog involved.

What is it? He gets attacked by a dog or something. 

Craig: There’s nothing there. No, no No, nothing that dog didn’t do anything. Really? It was just like a test of will or something like now shoot the dog Yeah, shoot the dog. 

Clip: He thinks i’m pulling his leg. Do I look like a sodding comedian shit boy? No, stop I still wouldn’t do it.

You don’t have a choice finish the job shoot the dog Woof! Woof! Woof! Shoot it! No! Stop! Woof! 

Craig: And he’s like, well, if you don’t, then I can’t trust you to do what things you may need to do. And he’s like, no, I’ll do whatever to protect the squad or whatever, but I’m not going to shoot this dog unprovoked. I 

Todd: can kill a dog.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m just not going to kill this dog for this reason. And he’s like, well, you’re out 

Craig: for no reason. Right. And then, and then Ryan shoots the dog for no reason. This dog that’s just like, you know, sitting there obediently. 

Todd: I find this a little confusing because then when we come back, we find out that Cooper is still in the military.

So, I was like, oh, but he 

Craig: got kicked out. The first ten minutes of the movie. No, he didn’t get kicked out, he just didn’t make that special squat. Yes. But the first ten minutes of this movie are wild because it’s like, you get the, you know, these, these, Screen things telling you where we are. And the first one was like Scotland and these people are camping and they’re getting busy and the woman gets killed.

And then it says two hours earlier in Wales. And then we see that. Scene where he’s supposed to shoot the dog or whatever and then it says four weeks later in the highlands of scotland Why are we jumping around in time like that? 

Todd: You’re right I forgot about the campers out in the woods getting killed because I thought at first I thought is this movie gonna be a horror comedy Because what happens is they’re getting ready to make out and he starts to unzip her zipper and then the zipper sound keeps going until And they look up and they realize that their tent is being unzipped.

I actually thought, I laughed out loud at that. I thought that was pretty clever. It was the cutest thing I’ve seen in a horror movie. 

Craig: This movie, that, okay, that was funny. I did enjoy that. But this movie confused me. I kept looking at Alan like this. I think that was supposed to be funny. Right. Yeah. Like, I kept thinking, I think that was, Comedy, but it didn’t make me laugh, right?

Is it just because it’s it’s like, is it British comedy that I don’t 

Todd: get? 

Craig: I have to, you know what? 

Todd: So this is hilarious. I was out shooting today when I got a message from you and I got very concerned that we were going to be watching the wrong movie today. We had two movies to watch. And I hadn’t watched the first one.

I had given myself enough time to watch it, but thinking that I was going to have to watch two movies today, I was like, I’m going to need to use all of my free time, you know, my lunch break. And then, you know, maybe even on my trip home to watch this movie. And thankfully my taxi ride home was like almost an hour and a half.

So I pulled out the laptop and me and a friend of mine, who happens to be Irish, which is, you know, it’s Scottish adjacent, was sitting next to me, and we were watching this movie together, and I was like, Oh, this is cool, because this is kind of happening near and around in the UK, you know, around his home, so he’s going to enjoy this too.

And we’re watching it, but it was a little noisy in the car, and the sound wasn’t, you know, was up as high as we could get it. And because I was in a hurry, I put, I cranked it up to watch it like 1. 25, you know, speed or whatever, and eventually he turns to me. He’s like, man, he’s like, we need to slow this down or we need to put some headphones in or something because I can’t understand what the hell they’re saying.

And I was like, thankfully you’re not the only one. 

Craig: No, I couldn’t understand what they were saying either at regular 

Todd: speed. There’s so much slang and so much shit going down. That was a bit of an adjustment. Yeah, and I’ve seen a lot of, I’ve purposely pushed myself to watch UK films where people are just speaking in like Cockney accents and Irish Brogue and all kinds of stuff, and even my Irish friend was like, I’m not even sure what this means, I’m not even sure what this means, I’ve never heard that before, the guy grew up in the UK, right, and he’s a linguistics guy, of all things, so like, Yeah, so, uh, we ended up finding a place to stream it where we could actually put subtitles up, and that helped us tremendously.

Craig: Yeah, I don’t know. Okay, so, like, there’s this team out, and it’s supposed to just be like a training thing, right? Like, they’re like on a training mission. 

Todd: Yeah, it’s just It’s just drop you in the middle of the jungle somewhere. Not jungle, but wherever it is in Scotland. Forest, uh, yeah. Forest. And you’re just supposed to go through this training mission.

They’re all issued blanks. You know, they’ve all got guns with little yellow things on the end. So like, they all know that it’s just all fake. But then as they go through the woods, they come across like a, they’re sitting around a campfire. Yes. Oh my God. I was not going to let you pass that part. They’re sitting around a campfire and they’re telling stories and one of them’s telling stories from Iraq and how, you know, like a buddy of his, you know, when they found him, he was in like 15 different pieces.

And then 

Craig: in my notes, my notes is campfire tale about Eddie’s ass tattoo. 

Clip: Me and Eddie, we went out a few drinks. We had a lot of drinks and we went down to the tattoo parlor and I got a desert rat done and Eddie being Eddie wanted something a bit more meaning and being a bit of a believer. He said that his soul still belonged to God.

But his flesh, well his flesh was way beyond redemption. And it was up to Satan to save his skin. So he got this great laughing devil tattooed right on his arse. Anyway, about six days later we were making a regular sweep along the Iraqi border. And, uh, Eddie triggered an anti tank mine. Blinding lightning flash and a f ing deafening crack, and by the time we’d picked ourselves up off the deck, Eddie was He was gone.

Just bits and pieces of him. That’s all that remained. The thing that really freaked us out that day was when left hand Charlie found a bit of Eddie with a tattoo on. I mean, everything else was burnt to a crisp, covered in carrot. All mushed up, poked up. Not this bit. This bit was perfect. And there’s old Nick, chalking his fucking arsehole off at us.

So you could say that Eddie was right. That Satan did indeed save his skin, just not all of it.

That 

Todd: was a great monologue. So it was, it was interesting and it was cute and it’s very military and I was willing to go along with it because we’re still only like 15 minutes into this movie that we know is going to have some soldiers in it. It’s very typical, again, predator esque, whatever. And then suddenly, a dead cow drops, drops from a height.

Into their campfire and they’re like, what the hell? And one dude’s like, start shooting at it. And he’s like, what are you shooting at it for? It’s blanks and yada, yada, yada. And then they stop and they’re like, Oh my God, this cow, like it, it, it’s clearly been like mutilated and yada, yada, yada. All right.

Well, I guess for the night we need to like, put up some positions and like. Have some I’m thinking what a dead cow just dropped into your camp, and you don’t think this is from 

Craig: the sky

Like I just felt like yeah that guy like reacts and shoots his gun or whatever but then they’re like well that was weird Let’s go to sleep, I guess, put up a patrol and watch, you know, and then they get up in the morning and they go looking around and, and they kind of go off track. I feel like, like they’re investigating this whole cow thing.

I don’t know. It doesn’t really matter. Yeah, we do know, however, that that guy that we had seen earlier, Ryan. Captain Ryan is following them and communicating with somebody else and he’s like, tell them that the flock is approaching the fold like what? But it’s intrigue, but we know that this is a, we know it’s a werewolf movie and, but then he, that guy gets attacked by a werewolf and then this group of military men that we’ve, I’ve gotten accustomed to in looking at like investigating the cow thing.

They come across a military camp that has just been decimated. Like you don’t even see any bodies or anything. It’s just blood and guts everywhere. Yeah. The whole point is 

Todd: there are no bodies. Yeah, 

Craig: you’re right. But, but Ryan, Captain Ryan, the one who’s been following them is there and he’s like slashed open, but he’s okay.

And, and he keeps saying there is only supposed to be one of them. I really didn’t understand what was happening in this movie most of the time. I swear to God, my notes, my notes are short and they’re like, I’m bored. I don’t know what’s happening. Like that’s 

Todd: literally in my notes. I mean, to be fair, I mean, it’s just setting up mystery.

I mean, I was okay with not knowing exactly what happened because I figured it would be explained later, but in retrospect. I’m still a little confused. But anyway, yeah, you’re right, they come across Ryan, he’s been slashed, he’s asking them for help. He leaps out at them, almost gets himself killed, cause he leaps out at them.

They aim their guns at him, they find him, they patch him up, and they start to drag him along. And as they’re dragging him along, they get beset by creatures. And it’s pretty clear. That, I mean, it’s clear as day. 

Craig: It’s clear as day because it is day. 

Todd: It is day. Yeah. 

Craig: What is happening? 

Todd: Werewolves. A full size, no question, are coming at them, and they’re shooting at them, and they’re dragging this guy along, and they’re trying to get somewhere.

And what happens is they sort of stumble down a hill onto a road right in front of a jeep that happens to be driving by. Right, that happens to be driving by at that moment. 

Craig: Why are the werewolves Why are the werewolves werewolves during the day when they very clearly later talk about how they’re only werewolves at night, like somebody says later, we just have to wait until morning.

This first werewolf attack on the military crew happens in broad daylight, and I looked at, God, I’m just going to keep saying it, but I did. Is this supposed to be night? Because it was broad daylight! Is it a 

Todd: day for night situation? Yeah, no, it didn’t seem to be. No. It was broad daylight. I don’t understand.

But it’s twilight, it’s coming up to night anyway. Maybe, you know, the moon is full, but the sun hasn’t gone down yet. Two o’clock in the afternoon.

Whatever. Alright, fine. It’s night. It’s fine. They stumble in front of this jeep. I’ll go with it. I’ll continue to go with it, even though it’s raising questions. Whatever. 

Craig: Wait! No! We can’t go there yet! Because first, one of the guys, whose names I don’t know, gets attacked by the werewolf, and his abdomen gets completely sliced open, and his guts are hanging.

Ow. Yeah, that happened. His guts are hanging out. And another guy comes up and is like, Just put them back in! And he’s like, No, no, they won’t fit. And the other guy’s like, Oh, they’ll fit. And they just squish his guts back inside him. And like, pull his pants up. And he’s fine. Are we sure? He can get out. I thought he’d get up and run.

Todd: He gets up and run. No, this is the guy. Oh, this isn’t the guy they rescued, right? I thought there was a dude who got killed and they ended up having to leave behind and they were distressed about and that was the guy. 

Craig: There was one guy died, but that wasn’t the guy whose guts fell out. That guy whose guts fell out is around for most of the rest of the movie.

They put him in that bed and there’s a whole scene where they sleep. So 

Todd: because he’s the, he’s the captain. Yeah, that’s right. I feel like there’s an explanation. Guts were out. I know, but I feel like there’s an explanation for that. Because 

Craig: he, he, I think he became a werewolf because of that attack. 

Todd: Yes.

Yes. 

Craig: So are you, are you suggesting that like the initial swipe of the werewolf claw, like makes you immune to injury? Yeah. If that’s okay. All right. Okay. That’s werewolf lore, 

Todd: right? You get attacked by a werewolf, you get scratched by a werewolf, you can become a werewolf, and werewolves have these regenerative qualities.

At least, that’s American Werewolf in London, that’s at least one other movie we’ve seen, that was The Howling, right? Like, so, yeah, I mean, I’m willing to go along with that, but it is pretty shocking. The moment that these stuff is guts back and guts 

Craig: are out. 

Clip: Right. 

Craig: Okay. And so then they meet Megan. They just fall in front of her car.

She’s like, Oh my God, thank God I found you. What? What are you 

Todd: talking? Where did she come from? At first I thought she was also military. She’s like, get in the, get in the Jeep and like whatever. And then she drives them off. And in the jeep they’re talking about oh my god that was f ed up and she’s like okay well like the closest place nearby is this farmhouse down the road and so 

Craig: And a werewolf attacks their car it’s not like, it’s not like there’s any mystery as to what they’re dealing with now even though they, they kind of continue to pretend like they’re not sure what’s happening And at one point somebody, maybe it’s Megan is like Is it wolves?

And Megan’s like, well, it’s like kind of not entirely wolf, but not, but a little bit man. And I shit, you know, I was sitting there thinking, isn’t there a word for that? It’s f ing werewolves. Are you kidding me? You I’ve seen them, they’re 8 feet tall, they’re bipedal, they’re obviously werewolves. Ugh. I need to calm down.

Yeah, 

Todd: it’s okay. No, I, it’s funny because I was also turning to my friend Thomas multiple times during this being like, shouldn’t they understand by now? Like, didn’t they sort of sort this out? They’ve been fighting these wolves. You’ve seen them. They’ve been fighting these wolves out there. These wolves attack their car.

An arm came down through the roof of this jeep. They stabbed it multiple times. One guy was holding it while the other dude was stabbing it with the knife. They get to this farmhouse. They go inside. There’s nobody there. It’s so Goldilocks and the Three Bears that some guy even makes a reference. It’s so funny.

Craig: I know, I don’t understand it. That’s part of the charm though, the Goldilocks bit is Why did the werewolf family leave on the stove? Why? Why? Were they just, like, were they being hospitable? Like they wanted their prey to be well fed? Fed. They go, what? 

Todd: They go there and, and there is, you know, it’s one of those deals where like, oh, there’s nobody here, but there’s a boiling kettle on the stove, which is a mystery.

And then a guy looks and they’re like, well, we’re gonna eat ’cause we’re hungry. And I was like thinking, don’t eat that shit. Like, do not eat mystery things from a place you don’t know. 

Craig: No. 

Todd: And . And one guy even asked another dude, what is it? And he’s like, I don’t know. It’s. Seems like pork. And I was like, it’s a human being.

Like, it was very clear to me, 

Craig: like you guys, I don’t even know. Yeah. I don’t even know if anything came of that. I was just like, no, it makes no sense. Like why would these people flee? It’s also been established that the people who are from here know that there are where, yes, this is the other thing. And lots of people, like people go missing from this place.

All the time. 

Todd: This woman, she claims, and I’m still confused about this, but as they sit there, Megan claims that she is a zoologist. 

Craig: She’s a zoologist! I’m about to shit my pants when she said, I’m a zoologist. I was like, you are fucking kidding me. That is, oh my god, and Alan, who hated this movie and was so So angry that I made him watch.

I mean, like he tolerated it, but like, it was obvious that he hated it. When she said, I’m a zoologist, we both just died laughing.

Todd: Oh God. It’s so stupid. So she’s, she’s a zoologist and she says, I’m a zoologist. And I came out here specifically to study these creatures. So And I know how to kill them every time to the point of comedy, which I thought this cannot be an accident. Like this has to be a joke every time to the point of comedy.

She starts to verge on information that will be helpful to them. They interrupt her and say, Oh, we don’t care about that. 

Clip: Do you have a name? Soldier Cooper going to need your help here, miss. My name is Megan. And I know how to kill them. You’re leaking like a slave. Look, I need you to get some super glue and some whiskey, all right?

I’ll see what I can do. 

Craig: They just cut her off when she’s about to give the 

Todd: most crucial information. At one point I turned to Thomas and I said, Mark my words, there will be a scene later in this movie where this woman is like, The only way to stop them is

It didn’t come, but I was ready for it because that was the tenor of everything. Anytime anyone in this movie can possibly share important information, they either don’t, or nobody else gives a shit, or somebody interrupts them. This guy, who they found, turns out to be shady, because He’s like, obviously we know he knows something.

He’s saying stuff about, oh, he was always supposed to be one of them. He’s the only surviving member. Yet, they do not press him for information, even though he says shady things. And so, they get very suspicious of him. They’re like, what’s your deal? Especially because this guy’s got a pass with him. So it’s like, oh, it’s like a personal thing.

As well, right? Cause Ryan was the guy who didn’t let Cooper join the special forces. So Cooper’s immediately attacking him. And he’s like, let me see, let me see your wounds. And Ryan’s like, I would really appreciate it if you didn’t. And he’s like, well it doesn’t matter, cause I’m gonna see your wounds anyway.

And they lift up his shirt, and of course his wounds are healed. I’m sorry, huge red flag. What do they do? Duh! Oh, I can’t trust you, uh, we’re gonna tie you to a chair. And then they walk away. This guy Why aren’t you pumping him for information? And why, when this girl is saying, I know how to kill them, you’re not like, Alright, let’s pull up a chair, you tell us, as your zoologist, person who studied these creatures, everything you know.

Instead They’re still not even quite sure if this is a werewolf. Well, I don’t know if I buy that. I don’t know. Like whatever this was hard for me to 

Craig: swallow. Yeah. But okay. The movie is far too long. And there are so many times in my notes where I just am like so much talking and I didn’t care. Like I didn’t, they were just talking forever.

I’m like, I don’t care, but. At some point, Ryan straight up tells them that the military knew there were werewolves and they were sending this group of guys in as like bait because they wanted to, I guess, capture the werewolves and use them As a military capture one at least yeah, and use it as like weapon like weaponry alright, and then he starts to turn into a werewolf and I think he does he turns into like a great big huge one and there’s fighting there’s always fighting there’s gun play and fighting all the time, but nothing really comes of it and then there’s always talking talking talking and then at some point.

Megan, I don’t know, at some points in the movie, like, they have cars, but then every time they have cars, the werewolves disable them, and then at one point, Megan’s like, Oh, uh, I forgot to tell you, there’s a car in the garage, you should go get it. And then she’s like, uh, I think all the werewolves are probably hiding in that shed, we should blow it up.

This plot point, Has no purpose. 

Todd: I have to be honest with you, at this point, Megan is saying two different things. On the one hand, she is trying to convince them, we just need to wait till morning. We just need to wait a couple hours, we need to hold out, and then everything’s gonna be fine again, because it’ll be morning, and they only hunt at night.

But then later, they concoct this plan, like they need to get to a car and try to get out. I’m like, why? You guys have successfully defended your little fortress here. There are no werewolves right now. You seem to have all the ammo in the world and you’re not concerned about it. Like, hold down. She’s literally been telling them, we just need to wait an hour or two.

And then, two scenes later, she’s like, I think we should go to the shed and get the car. Why? Why? And blow up the shed! Oh, we should go out into where the werewolves are. Somebody needs to go out into the forest where the werewolves are, act as bait. That is the dumbest plan! So that another person can, while they’re distracted, go out into where the werewolves are, to go to the shed to get the car, to back a car up to the front, so they can all get into this car, so that they can drive out into where the werewolves are.

I don’t get it. 

Craig: Oh, 

Todd: it’s 

Craig: dumb. It’s dumb. And, and she, this whole plan, like they get the car, but then the guy who got the car gets killed because there’s a werewolf hiding in the back of it. And then Megan’s like, Oh, we need to, I bet they’re all hiding in that shed. We should blow it up. So they do. And then as soon as they do, she’s like, just kidding.

Like they, just at that point. Somehow they have a revelation like there has been throughout this entire time a family Portrait of the family that lives in this cabin, but they only just realized in this moment. Oh, I this family’s probably the werewolves and Megan’s like, yeah, they are

Todd: You tell me you’d figured that out like Way long ago because 

Craig: I knew Megan was shady, but this whole the whole plot was so convoluted. I’m like, I don’t know Well, here’s what I don’t understand at one point. I thought they all could be werewolves for all I 

Todd: at one point Megan seems to be telling the truth because there’s like a Moment of truth or whatever when she’s talking to Cooper and a couple people are dead And the werewolves are descending on the cabin.

I think this is after the car was backed up but the guys killed and by the way I don’t understand why they didn’t still go for the car I mean this guy gave his life to bring them the car he did end up killing the werewolf because they opened the back door of the car and they saw all this death they shot the werewolf and whatever like why didn’t they then Push the blood in the body aside and get in the car.

Like, I don’t think the werewolf disabled it. I don’t know why they didn’t just follow through with their plan anyway. They just retreated back into the house. Anyway, Megan tells Cooper, I believe it is, When you came up in the woods, I, I thought you were the one who could save me from this hell and this madness, but I realize now you can’t.

I had already kind of Sorted out that she was a werewolf because there were some weird scenes of her sitting down and playing at the piano You know in the house some sheet music that she obviously knew before and then when she caught herself on the window She was kind of looking at it funny and then her hand was kind of fine later and shit So I felt like it was projected that she was a werewolf.

What I don’t understand is what was her motivation through this entire thing? 

Clip: When I found you out there tonight, I truly believed you were the best chance I had of getting out But now we have no chance. There is no out. 

Todd: There never was. She like literally screams out. You think I wanted to be a part of this effed up family?

I’m like well, then you were driving away. Why don’t you just leave? Yeah I mean if they’re only a threat at night in when there’s a full moon You can go whenever you want. You said you live in a full moon Farmhouse just a little whale die on the road like it doesn’t seem like there’s anything keeping you here How are these people your salvation just none of that made sense?

I don’t know Maybe someone’s gonna listen to this and they’re gonna explain to me something I missed 

Craig: some people are gonna be mad Because people 

Todd: love this movie. You know what to be honest with you. I didn’t hate this movie I actually enjoyed watching it as much as I, I thought it was puzzling. It was silly.

I liked the action. I really did. I didn’t feel for any of the characters, but I liked it. Like, I like any action movie. Like, I want to watch Predator or Commando or something like that. Like, I thought there was great action in here, and I thought it was bloody, and it was gory, and it was kind of fun. I liked the werewolves.

I liked seeing all that. I just didn’t think the story made any sense, and I agree with you. It was 100 percent convoluted to the point of lunacy. It didn’t make any sense to me. It didn’t make any sense. I 

Craig: mean, I feel like we, we didn’t even talk about how it ends, but that’s, that goes to show how much I cared.

And, and I think that part of it was the whole time I was watching it, I was feeling apologetic because I knew Alan wouldn’t like it. But I thought that based on public response to it, I’m like, well, it won’t be terrible. Like it’ll, it’ll be a decent movie. And I knew that he was just miserable watching it.

And I felt apologetic. And I understood why at one point I offered, I was like, we can turn it off. We can watch something else. And he’s like. No, we can finish it, but after it’s over, you need to leave me alone.

That’s hard. So I did. We finished it. Then I went in another room and,

um, but I mean, how does it end? Who cares? I mean, there’s werewolves and then Cooper like kills them. And, and, you know, He and the good boy Doggo, who we haven’t talked about at all. And when they first arrive at that cabin, somebody hears some scratching behind a cupboard door and they open it out and like an Australian shepherd comes out like a sweet farm dog.

And we had already seen that one German shepherd get shot in the head. And when that Australian shepherd came out, I looked at Alan and I said, that dog will be fine. I guarantee it. I mean, they had already. Set up that Cooper was like more like he morally objected to killing a dog. And I’m like, Oh, this good dog.

Oh, he’s going to be fine. 

Todd: I actually thought because of that setup, he would face a situation in the future where he would shoot the dog. So I was kind of impressed that I was surprised that it lived. Honestly, 

Craig: it crossed my mind that maybe the dog would also be aware. But he wasn’t, and in the end he helped, and he survived.

Todd: So what? Like, this is the family dog that on the one hand was barking at the werewolves sometimes, but on the other hand the werewolves had to lock up in the closet? 

Craig: Yeah. Oh, yeah, they just lock him up in the closet. That’s fine. I mean, that’s what you would do. I mean, you’re going to turn into a werewolf, so you got to make, you know, make sure your dog is safe if you’re going to turn into a werewolf.

I get it. 

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: I would do that. 

Todd: I love the point. Like, there’s some interesting physics involved. And, you know, where there’s a point where it’s basically the end of the movie, Cooper ends up blowing up the whole house with this little trap or whatever. He’s in the basement, the house blows up, but I guess an explosion like a tornado, right?

As long as everything above ground explodes, everything underground is okay. It’s just like, that’s 

Craig: Todd. It’s so funny. We, uh, we’re going to talk about that more because the same thing happens in the other movie that we watched for today. 

Todd: Anyway, carry on. So anyway, I think we pretty much did it, right?

Like she turns into a werewolf and he shoots her in the head real fast, or somebody does. I can’t remember who does. 

Craig: Well, right. I don’t know. And then you’re right. The whole house blows up, but because they were in a basement, they’re okay. But it turns out that one of the werewolves is still down there. I think it’s the, the captain Ryan.

I think it’s supposed to be him. And he and the main guy fight. And somehow, I have no idea how all of this is connected, but somehow Cooper has that silver letter opener from the campers from the first story. Oh, 

Todd: okay, cause I And he kills them. I, I think I missed that because when the werewolf breaks in through the floor and comes down and starts fighting Cooper, a whole bunch of stuff falls down with him, and then there’s a moment where Cooper sees that letter opener, and it’s like an aha moment, right?

And I was like, Am I supposed to recognize that there’s a point made earlier in the movie where they’re going through the drawers looking for things and somebody even says, God, this whole family doesn’t have a silver thing in the house, which is a big giveaway. But also, I was thinking, yeah, I mean, of course, OK, so they’re werewolves, yada, yada, yada.

I thought that from the moment they went into the house. But then I was like, so where did that letter opener come from? And I guess I missed it earlier. What we was in the first camp what 

Craig: yeah in the in the opening scene with the campers the girl gave it to the guy as a gift and yes and she said something he’s like I I don’t know I feel like he said something like I hope I don’t lose it and she’s like yeah you better not it’s pure silver but the 

Todd: point is.

Those two characters had nothing to do with anybody who came here. 

Craig: So how would Except for, no, no, no, except for they were in that area. Because when the soldiers talk about Coopers, like, yeah, this area is notorious. People go missing all the time. Just a week ago, a couple of campers went missing. So I guess that we are supposed to believe that these werewolves not only kill, but also loot.

Yeah. 

Todd: Yeah. I get that, and so that’s fine, so it ended up down in the basement somehow, but how does Cooper look down at this metal thing that fell down, instantly deduce that it’s silver? He would have no idea, right? He doesn’t have any association with these people, they’re not part of his backstory, and then decide, oh, that’s the thing, and so, and stab him with it.

I didn’t know 

Craig: that it doesn’t make any sense. And also, it’s not like he kills the werewolf with the letter opener, but it’s just like if the wolf is injured with silver, it makes them more susceptible to injury. And so once he stabs the werewolf, like, I don’t know, I feel like maybe He was late at night.

I don’t remember at this point, but it’s almost like you saw like a rippling effect through the world. And then he shot it in the head. 

Todd: Yeah, I think you’re right about that. Now I kind of had to have that explained to me by you just now, but. Also, that brings up the other thing that was going through my mind through this entire movie was like they shoot the hell out of these werewolves.

They are constantly shooting at these guys with machine guns at point blank range. There’s one point where a werewolf bursts through a window and no less than four guys, six feet away from him, are blasting machine gun rounds into him. It does nothing. It does not hold them back. I mean, it kind of, you know.

Put, you know, they fall back a little bit, but they keep coming. Are these guys that stupid? You have been shooting at these werewolves this entire movie and it’s done nothing to harm them. Why are you not changing tact? Why have you not thought back to that moment where this woman told you, I know how to kill them and thought there must be a way, right?

Like stop trying to shoot them. Start trying to figure out how to kill them. Maybe even just turn and ask her, Hey, you remember back when we interrupted you? Like, how do you kill them? Also, why would she volunteer this information if she’s part of this werewolf family? Like, I just don’t get it! I 

Craig: don’t get it!

No, it doesn’t make any sense! It doesn’t make any sense! Any sense. Oh, now why is 

Todd: she so coy? Right? What? Maybe she wants her fam. I’m sorry. Maybe she, she says later. You think I like being part of this effed up family? Okay, I get it. So you’re turning against your family. All right. Why were you so coy and quiet about everything?

Why didn’t you just say, Hey guys, guess what? I’m a zoologist. This is part of my family. I’m part werewolf. And, uh, this is how you kill them. Now that I got you on my 

Craig: side, we can do this. No, it doesn’t make any sense and it is frustrating and I want those of you out there because I know you’re out there.

Yeah. I want you to comment and yeah, what are we missing? Are we overthinking it? Maybe we’re overthinking it. I don’t know. I think, 

Todd: you know what we probably sound like, we probably sound like the guys who are picking apart an Arnold Schwartzenegger movie. Like, oh, he jumped outta the shed and 15 people shot machine guns at him and he mowed them down and he was fine.

And then I know we’re, everyone’s like, you know who cares? Like that’s what I come to watch. I wanna see an action movie. Maybe that’s how everybody feels about this movie because I’m serious. I really enjoyed the action bit. I really did. I like that. 

Craig: There’s so much talking like, God, like if, if, if it had cut out all of those long talking scenes, I mean, there were parts that I liked.

I liked when the werewolves were running through the forest in silhouette. It reminded me a lot of a movie that I think you are in the company of wolves. Was that the Angela Lansbury one? It reminded me of that. I like like a spooky forest with, you know, interesting imagery. I enjoyed that. I really did like the werewolves in close up it with seeing them in full again.

Like it’s not like they didn’t look good and it’s a unique look and I appreciate that, but it just looked like really buff guys, but lean like dancers. As they were, like the wolf would be though, tall. I think that tall, I mean, I get it, I get it. A dog, you know, a dog 

Todd: can be strong and muscular, but, but lean like I, I I thought that was fine.

Craig: Yeah. But it looked mostly human. It looked like they were wearing like a dog head costume. I’m, I’m not gonna continue to criticize it because I don’t want to, because I don’t think it’s a bad movie and I don’t think that people shouldn’t watch it. I was just, I had been. I, I’ve wanted, you’ve been primed.

Yeah. I’ve wanted to see this movie for the last 20 years. And I 

Todd: wanted to love it more too. I a hundred percent feel you know, I’ve been primed that this was like an insanely great movie, underappreciated independent film gem and still it’s a well made movie. It’s got a lot of skill behind it. It’s well acted.

It’s well shot. It is, it just didn’t make a lot of sense, and I think that was so distracting that it was kind of disappointing, because why? Why does it have to be so convoluted? You could have made an awesome, action based werewolf movie that would have been nothing more than, Oh shit, they’re werewolves, let’s retreat to this house and fight them away, and it would have been great.

Played better for me, I think. You know? Me 

Craig: too. I, I, like, I’m feeling dejected, like, oh boy, like, I hate that I’m saying negative things about this movie. But whatever. Tell us. It was fine. It was fine. I would not steer anybody away from it. In fact, I would steer people towards it and say, because I would want to say like, because I want to see what you think.

I think I’m wrong. I think, I think I’m missing something. I feel like I’m missing things 

Todd: too. 

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. So y’all should watch it and either validate Or invalidate us, because, I mean, the whole point of doing a podcast is for, like, validation, right?

Todd: Oh, man. Invalidation, yeah, is okay too. As long as it’s not mean spirited, we’re fine with that. All right, well, again, reach out to us. Let us know what you think. We really want to hear from you. And the place you can do that is on ChainsawHorror. com or you can just Google two guys in a chainsaw podcast.

You can find us all over the internet. Find us on our places where our podcast is hosted. Leave us a review. Send us a message, you can even send us a voice message through a link on our website and we love hearing those. Find us on our social media through the same channel, just let us know what you think.

We’re gonna continue with werewolf movies, we’re on a roll. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.