Hocus Pocus

Hocus Pocus

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We switch it up and move to classic family fare for our Halloween episode this year. And it’s timely too, as the long awaited sequel to Hocus Pocus just came out this month. Not only can you watch the movie with your kids, but you can share this podcast with them too, as we kept our whole discussion and language squeaky-clean for your listening pleasure. Happy Halloween, Loyal Listeners!

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Hocus Pocus (1993)

Episode 318, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Craig: Hello and welcome to the Halloween episode of Two Guys in a Chainsaw 2022. I’m Craig.

Todd: And I’m Todd.

Craig: Todd, look, you know, when we were talking about what we wanted to do last week, we did terrify her, which ultimately I really like. I I do. Uh, it’s a little bit outta my wheelhouse.

It’s a little bit gory and, and gross. Um, but I do like it. But when we finish that, we said let’s do something a little lighter, uh, for our final Halloween episode. And, uh, we pulled our patrons on Patreon and we didn’t do a vote. We just asked what, you know, what are some suggestions? Somebody said, you know, if you wanted to go light, you could do.


Todd: pocus. . . That’s, It’s pretty light . I know. And, 

Craig: and honestly, it’s not like we’ve never thought about it before. For whatever reason, we just haven’t done it. You’ve brought it. I gotta tell. Yeah. I gotta tell you. I’m really, really excited to talk about this movie. I love this movie. I absolutely love it.

We felt that, based on the suggestion and the fact that, uh, the sequel finally, 30 years later, 29 years later, came out this year, it was fitting that, uh, we finally tackle this very, very much Halloween themed movie. What do you think? I 

Todd: mean, it is a hundred percent Halloween themed and it’s, you know, it’s family.

It’s very family friendly. It’s pg Yeah. And, uh, Pretty notorious, I think for people around our age and maybe even a slightly younger, We’ve even done theme months where we’ve done family friendly horror movies. They’re out there and they’re fun. So this definitely qualifies as a horror movie. Definitely qualifies as a Halloween movie.

Uh, and uh, it’s certainly within the wheelhouse of the kind of thing we talk about. So, yeah, no, I think it was a per, it was a great choice. Me too. Especially after the Tariff Fire, which is 180 degrees opposite kind of movie from this one. So , absolutely. 

Craig: But like you said, it is family friendly and I think that it definitely falls under the category of gateway horror.

Yeah. This is a movie that you can show your kids, but it, it has real horror elements to it. Mm-hmm. , uh, you know, there are these evil witches whose. Prime goal is to kill and suck the life force out of children, 

Todd: which they do within the first 10 minutes , Which they 

Craig: do. Yeah. You know, the, the, the movie doesn’t go out of its way to soften that, you know, the, these witches want to kill people.

Mm-hmm. , I’m sure I’ll talk about it more later, but I’ve seen the sequel and I’ve seen, uh, Cathy to Jimmy in particular, has been doing press, uh, for the sequel. She was reluctant to take on the movie because she was concerned about. Uh, presenting an offensive stereotype for real life witches, which of course there are, you know, , there are, there are people who identify as witches and, and people who are Wiccan and, and whatnot.

She, she took it because, uh, but Middler was her idol and she absolutely could not pass up the opportunity to work with Bet Midler. And I don’t blame her at all. I , I would feel the exact same way, , but, uh, the movie started out as a concept. Uh, Disney wanted to do a Halloween themed movie. I think one of the producers, and he’s credited as a writer cuz he helped come up with the story, David Kersner.

He, he thought, you know, there are all of these family, them. Christmas movies and they’re wildly successful and they get, you know, replayed every year and become traditions. But there are no real family Halloween movies. And so he came up with this idea. It was originally gonna be Disney’s House of Halloween, and it was intended to be much darker, uh, and scarier than the film that we ended up getting.

It sat like in production hell for like eight years until finally they got their stuff together. David Kirschner worked on it. He was probably best known at the time for writing. An American Tale, which is another great family movie. Oh 

Todd: goodness. That movie’s good. Oh, I love 

Craig: it. But he’s also done some horror stuff, I think that he produced.

He had something to do with, um, Child’s play, I think. Yeah. He 

Todd: produced, uh, at least the first three or four. Oh, no, he’s produced almost all of the child’s plays, I think. Yeah. 

Craig: Gotcha. Mm-hmm. . And then, uh, Ick Garris was another writer. He also is a horror guy. Oh gosh. I don’t remember the stuff that he’s done, but he’s done other horror stuff.

Neil Cuthbert was the other writer, and then Kenny Ortega was the director, Kenny Ortega. It’s probably best known at this point for his work on the high school musical franchise. Mm-hmm. . Um, but he had done some other stuff too. Music 

Todd: videos, I think before this model music 

Craig: videos. He’s, I think, in pre-production on a remake of Dirty Dancing.

Uh, I think that he had his hand in the live hairspray, uh, production for, for television. Um, so these guys have a lot of experience and they finally got their stuff together. Initially, the movie was supposed to be centered much more on the witches, and they actually filmed it that way. There are a lot of scenes that were cut, um, that focused more centrally on the witches.

I know that there was a scene with Kathleen and a Jimmy in a grocery store. There was a scene where, uh, it late in the. They’re in a high school. There was a scene where Sarah Sanderson and Mary Sanderson push their sister Winnie into the swimming pool. There was a lot that ended up getting cut because when they had their cut of that version, they felt like it was too scary and it needed to be more family focused.

And so they put a lot more attention on the kids. Huh. I, I would’ve been, or I still would be very interested to see what it was intended to be. But ultimately I think that it turned out great. This is one of those movies that I feel like it’s lightning in a bottle. They got the right people in it, you know?

Um, of course the Divine Bet Midler, uh, as Winnifred , uh, Sanderson, Cathy Na, Jimmy as Mary, who she is just. Straight up. Hilarious in everything that she’s in. She’s 

Todd: the Sister Act gal, right? Right. Yes. Uhhuh . That’s how I know her. She was, I think around this time too, she got really popular because, uh, she did, she was a feature player in Sister Act, and then you just start to see her in a ton of movies.


Craig: And she’s, she’s a character actress. She’s funny, she’s hilarious. You know, she was, uh, a heavy set woman at the time. Today she looks younger than she looked 30 years ago. She’s more fit. She’s beautiful. I mean, not that she’s not beautiful, uh, in this movie. She is. And then a very young, uh, Sarah Jessica Parker was 23 years old when she made this 

Todd: movie.

Oh man, 

Craig: that is crazy to me. That is crazy. , I was an infant when I was 23. . 

Todd: You were an infant when you , you still are. And of 

Craig: course I am a little bit. Of course, she went on to find huge success in Sex in the City and is a fashion icon today and is still working. You know, there’s the Sex in the City spinoff just like that, that she is producing and, uh, starring in and she’s wildly, wildly successful, but she’s a child in this movie and the three of them are just amazing.

I read that the first choice for Winnifred was Claris Leachman. And Claris Leachman is hilarious. Like I’m sure she would’ve made an. A fantastic witch. Rosie O’Donnell was asked to play Mary, but she didn’t want to play a scary witch. And Jennifer Lopez auditioned for the role of Sarah. That would’ve been a different movie,

but we ended up with this amazing cast. And then Leonard at DiCaprio was set to play the young boy lead role of Max Dennison. Um, he turned it down to Star in what’s eating Gilbert Grape, and he got a lot of really good response for his role in that movie. So that was a good choice, probably the best choice for him.

Plus the kid in this movie who was a relative unknown, uh, Oy cats, uh, and he did some other stuff. He, I think, led the cast of a TV show called Erie, Indiana, which was like a supernatural, spooky 

Todd: kind of show. Did you ever watch that, by the way? I watched, like the first 

Craig: couple episodes, I think I didn’t get into it.

Mm-hmm. , uh, I don’t remember why. I mean, it’s been so long ago. It’s been almost 30 years ago. I don’t remember why. Now he runs a weed business.

Todd: Good for him. Good for him. Yeah. Now is the time, really. I mean, That’s right. 

Craig: I mean, I could, I could get down with that guy. Um, and then a, a, a tiny little baby, Thra Birch, uh, as Danny, his little sister, of course she has, you know, she’s an adult actress now, still working. She was actually asked to revise, or not revise, to reprise her role, um, in the sequel, but she couldn’t because of, uh, issues, and she was disappointed.

Uh, she wished that she had been able to, but she wasn’t able to. And then Allison is played by Vanessa Shaw, of course, I mean also very, very young. But she, uh, continues to act. She’s stunningly beautiful. I mean, just, Oh, and I, I can’t forget the guy who plays, uh, Billy, Billy Buton, played by Doug. I always wanna get his name wrong.

I always wanna say Doug Bradley. But that’s the. That’s Doug Jones. That’s Doug Jones. Doug Bradley’s the hell Razor guy. Doug Jones. . I’m gonna, I’m keep, I’m trying to keep my language appropriate because this is a kid moving and parents could listen to this with their kids. Maybe kids will, 

Todd: will listen 

Craig: to this too.

Yeah. All right. Doug Jones is a bleeping legend. Yeah. This guy is amazing. He has been in countless movies, and if you saw him out of makeup, you would probably never recognize him because he is always in insane makeup and prosthetics. He’s this super tall, very lanky guy who has the most amazing control of his body, of anybody that I can think of.

Mm-hmm. and, and he plays these wild character creature roles. At any time I see him announced in the cast of something, I am fascinated and drawn to whatever it is, because he is always so good. One of the things that I remember him from, which probably isn’t even one of his most memorable roles, but he was, uh, the lead gentleman in the Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode called Hush.

That was up for multiple. Like Emmy’s and stuff, because the premise of the show was these demons came to town and stole everybody’s voices. So up until the last few minutes of the episode, the entire thing, there’s no, there’s no dialogue because nobody can talk. Oh. And, and he was fantastic. Um, so scary in that movie.

And he’s great in this movie too. Yeah. Initially scary, but then sweet and, and endearing. Uh, I tell you what, bro, uh, you’re gonna have to butt in at some point because I could talk about this movie. All Day.

Todd: Well, I’m curious if you actually saw this in the theaters because it didn’t do well in 


Craig: theaters. Did you And no it didn’t, and no I didn’t. And that’s too 

Todd: bad. I mean, it was 93, we were in high school, I guess, at this time. So, 

Craig: uh, yeah, I was a freshman in high school and they released it in the summer.

Their, their thought was, kids won’t be in school so they can go see movies, but they released it in the summertime, which I think was a bad decision. Yeah. You know, this is a Halloween movie. It needs to be released in the fall, and I think it went up against, it went up against some big movies, um, maybe The Nightmare before Christmas or Jurassic Park or something like that.

Uh, yeah, it went up against some big movies and, uh, it did not do well at. It did really poorly actually, 

Todd: and I can, I don’t know, I guess I could kind of see why and yet not, I mean, there are a lot of other movies like this that just go over like gangbusters right out the gate. I mean, it’s like a, we, it’s like a mad cab zaney.

You know, there’s just action throughout it. Yeah, there’s always stuff going on. It, it really, it just yanks you, Yanks you through the movie, basically. And I think either some people are for that and some people are like, Ugh, it’s another kid’s movie. You know? It’s one of these kind of wacky zaney kids movies type things.

And since parents make the decisions of what they’re gonna bring their kids out to see, I don’t think it really depends on whether the kids like the movie. I think it’s more like, do the parents? Mm-hmm. , are they interested enough to wanna bring their kids to it and sit through it? And that’s probably what tanked it, but then made it so popular on video afterwards is once you know, it’s, it’s a perfect movie to rent for kids and sit at a home where you, you don’t have to watch it if you don’t want to.

Sure. I’m not saying you wouldn’t want to, I’m just saying, you know, that just kind of ups the appeal. It’s funny how the context of a movie kind of changes, really, your reception of it in some ways. Anyway, No, I, and I also didn’t, uh, watch it in the theater either. I was in high school. I wouldn’t have gone to see a, an obvious like kids movie like this.

Um, and I never saw it, believe it or not, on home video at home. I think the first time I saw this movie was really just a couple years ago. Get out. I’m not kidding you. It, it, and I don’t even remember why it, it was somebody else’s suggestion or somebody else was already watching it. Uh, it, it was one of those kind of deals where yeah, just somebody else said, Oh, it’s good.

You should check it out. And, and I ended up watching it. So, um, so this is the second time I’ve seen it, but I don’t have these strong childhood memories of it like you do. Although I do have strong childhood memories of pretty much all the performers in this movie. Like Sure. Like you just ran through. So, uh, it was a, it was still a bit of a nostalgic trip in, in, in that way.

Craig: I cannot believe that you have only seen this movie twice. I’ve seen this movie twice so far this year, , 

Todd: and I might watch it again. So here you are as an adult. Still going back to this, huh? Oh my gosh. 

Craig: I’ve watched it with my sister when we were growing up every year, because eventually it did get. A, a following, it almost seems wrong to call it a cult following cause it’s not really cult.

It’s free mainstream. Yeah. It’s mainstream. It’s popular that it plays on, uh, TV every Halloween season. Um, I, I watched it with my sister growing up and, and now Alan and I watch it every year, during Halloween season. And for some reason there was one year in the past two or three years where we didn’t get around to watching it.

And we talked about it afterwards and we actually talked about it again last night. Like it felt wrong. Like we felt like we had, like, we had missed something that we hadn’t watched Hocus Pocus during October. Like we, like we legitimately regretted it. . I I think that’s another thing that makes this movie so good is it so has.

A rewatch factor. Like true, you can rewatch this movie over and over again. The jokes just hit, They’re funny, they’re silly. There’s just so much to, like, there are musical numbers. I mean, come on. And you know, like, I’ll, I’m happy to roll my eyes at musical numbers in some things, but you’ve got these three women, um, bet Midler is a diva and has been doing it for decades, and this is right in her wheelhouse.

Yeah. This is what she does. Uh, she said when she got the. The reason that she was excited about it was because it gave her the opportunity to do what she loves most and what she thinks that she’s the best at, which is physical comedy. Yeah. And that is absolutely true. She is hilarious. Yeah. And she is a character actress.

She does this in her own act. You know, when, if you’re lucky enough to be able to see Miss Bet Midler in concert, which I have not, but if you are Oh, except for On video, I’ve seen her on video. But she does this, she plays characters. Uh, it, she doesn’t just get up and sing. She does bits and they’re funny.

Oh, interesting. She has a hilarious character where she’s a, she’s a mermaid , but because she’s a mer, Above water. She wheels herself in, around, in a wheelchair, . And it’s hilarious. I mean, this is what she does. Sarah Jessica Parker has a, a history on Broadway. She starred as Annie on Broadway when she was a little tiny 

Todd: girl.

Oh, I didn’t know that. Yes. So she’s 

Craig: got all of this performance. I don’t know as much about Mary’s background, uh, the actress that played her, but uh, even just knowing what she’s done, she is hilarious in Sister Act. She’s one of the funniest parts of those movies. Mm-hmm. . So these three women coming together, it’s just.

Magic. It is, is fantastic. No pun 

Todd: intended. Yeah, it’s definitely so good. 

Craig: All right. I’m getting out of breath. . 

Todd: We can run, we can run through the plot, but, but I will say that like for me, Okay. I love kids’ movies, don’t get me wrong. Same kids. Uh, there are a lot of kids movies. I do go back and rew. I mean, I just saw Goonies again just like last week.

Yeah. This is the kind of movie that is. It’s like a little too silly for me. It, it, it is Everything you said. It is, it is hilarious. It is madcap. It is. It’s got music and all that stuff. And, uh, for me, you know, I’m not usually in the mood for this kind of movie. Again, I’ll watch it once and I’ll enjoy it, but, you know, to watch it again, I have to, I have to be completely honest with you about halfway through it, I said it to play at one and a half speed so I could get through it faster.

I hate you. I know. Am I terrible? Yes. Well, it’s just like, you know, once it kicks off, you just know where it’s going and it just keeps going that way and there’s nothing wrong with that, but you know, it, it’s just a bunch of kids being pursued by these crazy witches who do high jinks and silly things and fish outta water jokes and, and whatnot.

But they’re always in control. You know, they just cast spells on people and, and cause mayhem throughout the town while they’re pursuing these three kids who have the magic spell book that they need to ensure that they remain alive, uh, in the 21st century. And then, um, or in this case, the 20th century , it’s, it’s hard to believe actually, this is a movie that’s 20 years old because feel like 30, 30 years old.

Oh gosh. We, it is, it’s hard to believe because it doesn’t feel like it at all. It feels like it could’ve been made yesterday. Mm-hmm. . 

Craig: Yeah. And, and you’re right. Like, um, I, I texted you, I know you’re with your family, so you probably didn’t have time, but, uh, there was a 25th anniversary. Retrospective that Disney did.

And it was, it was silly, really. Uh, it was formatted kinda like an award show and generally it was silly, but there were some little nuggets of interesting information cuz there were interviews with the actresses and whatnot. But, um, at the very beginning, the hosts, uh, did a summary of the plot in three minutes.

Todd: did it even take that 

Craig: long? , I don’t even know if it took that long. And they really like, it might even be worth you looking it up. I’ll give you my Disney Plus password. Oh, you’re a sweetheart. . 

Todd: Why don’t you just announce your password here so that every No 

Craig: then I would get kicked out all the time.

That’s true. But y I mean, the plot is simple. I don’t know the best way to go about this because, It would be very easy to roll through the plot, but there are so many great 

Todd: parts. Yeah. You just kind of have, Here, let me summarize the, let me do the boring part. Okay. So it, it starts out in the early, gosh, 16 hundreds, which is really pretty fricking early considering it’s like the dawn of America’s existence.

Right. But anyway, yeah, it’s 16 hundreds. Uh, and there are these three witches who are, have captured a girl named Emily. They’ve sucked her life blood out of her and mixed up this magic potion. They have this spell book that’s bound in human skin and has a little eyeball on it that looks around, um, and seems kind of a little sentient in a way.

Totally. And that’s where they get their potions and spells out of. And, uh, their goal is to live forever by sucking the lifeblood outta kids. But the mob shows up and her brother shows up eventually they hang these witches, which is. Pretty dark for a Disney movie. Really? Yes. It’s not like they show them struggling, but the, the barrels get kicked out from under their feet and you see their feet dangling and, uh, and that, yeah, they get hung, but not before.

Bet Midler’s character who’s sort of like the lead ghost or the lead, the lead witch makes a curse on the whole town and says that they will return when a virgin comes and releases them from from the ground. Now we’re back in, We’re, we’re back to the future. Which is our present day, 1993. And, uh, it’s your typical new family comes into town.

It, it, it’s so typical. Really. It’s this boy and his little sister. Uh, the boy’s name is Max and his sister’s name is Danny. He’s like high school age and she’s like upper elementary, I would suppose. Yeah, eight or nine. And, uh, they move into town from LA and, and it’s just, it’s Salem, Massachusetts, so it’s a bit rural.

And immediately he’s getting teased at school. Um, him particularly is just getting relentlessly teased. He meets a girl, blah, blah, blah. It’s Halloween. They are out at Halloween. And this, uh, girl and him and Danny, I’ll end up together at her house. And, uh, for some reason, because it’s been brought up at school, the legend of this Sanderson.

He decides, Hey, let’s go to the Sanderson sister’s house and check it out. basically. Yeah. Cuz it’s Halloween and they go, he being a virgin, which is a joke, they keep throwing in there for the older ones, I guess lights the candle, the, the black can flame candle, which is put together with the fat of a hangman or something like that.

Yeah, right. Of course. That is all that was necessary to, uh, awake. The witches. The witches awake and they run off with the spell book before the witches can get to it. And the reason they do is because, uh, Emily’s brother, the, uh, the one who had come to save her, Emily was the girl who, who had died earlier, um, had been turned into a black cat by the witches.

And so he’s still around. He’s immortal as well. And he’s kind of the guardian over there. And he can talk what’s, Yeah, he can talk and everything is talking. Black cat, uh, has just been hanging around this house for the last 300. And so, uh, he tells ’em, Take the spell book. They’re like, What? You’re a talking cat.

Take the spell book, and they leave. And so now it just becomes a case where the witches are alive, but they know that once the sun rises, they’re gonna die again. Unless they can get that spell book, uh, and do the right potion that helps them to live forever. And then start sucking all the life blood out of all the kids in town again.

And so from here on out, and I’d say that’s probably about, mm, a third of the way through the movie that all this goes down. Yeah. Probably the, the next two thirds of the movie is just them pursuing the kids throughout the town. They’ve got the cat with them and they’re trying to hide the spell book, and they’re going to all these different locations and it’s Halloween, so there’s trick or treating and there’s Halloween parties.

The, the witches are crashing and the kids are crashing and they’re trying to get their parents attention and all that stuff. You know, it’s typical kids movie stuff until finally, uh, there’s a big showdown and, uh, Everything’s fine. The, the witches, uh, explode and are banished and it’s all good. So , 

Craig: Right.

And that is it. I mean, the story is so simple, but it just, it, it feels almost sacrilegious to reduce it to that because it’s so good. All right. So yeah, I’m gonna focus on some things. The sisters, the, the three witches, uh, you know, the opening scene is great. It establishes that these are evil witches. We know exactly what they’re gonna do, and they do it.

They kill that little girl. Yeah, She is dead. 

Todd: Her head is down. It’s not like they dwell on it. It’s not like there’s a moment of sadness. It’s actually almost darker just how callously it’s treated really 

Craig: way. Like when they give her the potion, like her life force, like emanates from her, it’s like it’s glowing in a haze around her and they just suck it.

Like they breathe it in, like they inhale it and then Right. You just see her with sitting in the chair with her head down and her hair hanging over her face. So it’s not. Like overly morbid or, or gross or anything. Um, but the girl is dead. Like it killed 

Todd: her and now she’s just in the background while they’re dancing around dead.

It’s kinda creepy. 

Craig: Yes. Uhhuh and, and, um, bet Middler said that she based her performance on the Wicked Witch of the West and Angelica Houston’s, uh, Grand High Witch in the witches. The witches. Ah-huh. Interesting. Kathy, Jimmy, I just saw her last week, uh, on the view. She said that with this character, she had two motivations.

One was to eat children, two was to be Winnie’s favorite because Winnie is obviously. The oldest and, and like their leader. Um, and so throughout the movie, Mary Kathleen and Jimmy is constantly trying to cater to her and suck up to her. Uh, at one point she says, Do you want to hit me? Would that make you feel better?

Like it’s that kind of thing, but it’s hilarious. And Sarah Jessica Parker. Oh, gosh, I have to keep it friendly. San Francisco Parker is the boy crazy one. Mm-hmm. like, and, and, and, and she’s ditzy. Um, she’s, she’s super ditzy and super boy crazy. Like anytime there are boys or men around, like she is practically melting into the floor, or crazy virgin who lit the candle, I’ll be my friend.

But she’s also hilarious. She’s so bubbly and like, she’s always bouncing, bouncing, bouncing. And her hair is long and, and she being 23, of course, you know, I remember being 23, I, I didn’t realize the beauty of being 23 at the time. man, like you, you go back. You look the best you’re ever gonna look . 

Todd: It’s so true.

Unless you’re Sean Connery or something, right? Sure, 

Craig: sure. Uh, Sarah Jessica Parker is still stunningly beautiful today, but 23 year olds. I mean, she’s just absolutely gorgeous. I hope this isn’t an appropriate for children, but sexy she is. Like, and that’s what they’re going for. Yeah. Even in the costuming, uh, they said like, um, their costumes reflected their characters.

She is, uh, styled. To look like a sleeping beauty. Mm-hmm. Mary is styled to look like a baker or a baker’s wife because she’s more homey. She also, Cathy and a Jimmy said that part of her inspiration was that her character was part blood hound. Um, she’s the one that sniffs out the kids and she even barks.

That’s right. She barks throughout the movie. Yeah. . And, uh, when they were designing, uh, bet’s, look, the costumer wanted it to her inspira. The costume’s inspiration was Bet Midler. She’s gotta be fun. Like, initially the plan had been to have her be very dark, like in, in black and, and very serious. And, uh, the customer said, I don’t.

That’s right. I think she needs to be sparkly and fun and, uh, so director, producer, I don’t know, went to BET and said, What do you think? And bet Midler was like, I’m not wearing some black dress. . So their, their characters are based, you know, uh, there’s just thought behind it. And, and they’re, they’re not stereotypical necessarily.

I mean, they’re stereotypical in that they are evil witches who want to eat kids. That’s stereotypical. But their individual characters are, are interesting and, and unique. and in the beginning, you know, I love this stuff too. In the beginning, uh, when we first meet them, when they, they are kind of like old Crohn’s.

They’re in heavy old lady makeup. And then after they suck out the, uh, life of that little girl, um, they’re younger. I think Mary says, We are young. And then bet Midler turns around and looks in the mirror and says, Well, younger . 

Todd: Right? 

Craig: But that’s also something that’s crazy. Uh, so Sarah Jessica Parker was in her thirties, or no, excuse me, twenties.

I, I don’t remember where Kathy and Jimmy was. Um, but, uh, BET Midler was already in her forties or fifties because now that the sequel has come out, bet Midler is in her mid seventies. And I, I don’t care if this is off topic, I have seen the sequel and yes, you can tell that they’re older, but these three women.

Have some, I mean, I think they must be witches in real life because they’ve got some magic potion, huh? Yeah. There’s no way that they should look way. I mean, it’s crazy. They don’t look much different than they did 30 years ago. It’s wild. 

Todd: It’s nuts. Wow. Uh, I think there is something special though. I mean, I don’t know if we’re all taking care of each o of, of ourselves better or if healthcare is better, we just stay outta the sun more.

But like, you know what was a 70 year old person, even when I was growing up in the eighties, looks nothing like a 70 year old person now. Like, you know, my parents still look super young. My dad, some people still think my dad is my brother. It’s really weird. So, yeah, that, that’s an interesting thing.

Somebody needs to look into that. 

Craig: It is weird. It, it does seem weird and I don’t know if it has to do with style or what, but like the Golden Girls, which remains one of my favorite shows, those women. When, when they were cast in that show are the age that like J-Lo and Shakira are now . , I’m not kidding.

Good way of playing it. Dead 

Todd: serious. It’s hilarious, right? This spinster, ladies in their fifties, you know, like trying to get on with the last few years of their life. And , come on. 

Craig: And like I, I’m a big fan of Madonna, but I’m not gonna say that she’s aged as gracefully as some ladies, but she’s my mom’s age.

Like, I wish that for our viewers I could put like a picture of my mom who is beautiful and a picture of Madonna and say that they’re the same age because one, one of those two, I’ll leave it to you to guess. One of those two doesn’t realize she’s in her mid sixties, but whatever, you can do whatever you want, you know, Rock those, you know.

Lingere outfits, whatever. Well into your seventies. Be my guess. Live your best life anyway. Gosh, what else? The, the book is so Remini reminiscent of the Necron. Yeah. There are just so many, like you said before, about getting people into theaters. I think you’re right. It has to kind of appeal to the adults who are gonna have to go sit through it too.

Or it should, I guess, in some way. Mm-hmm. . But this one does like this. There’s stuff in here, this, this movie wouldn’t be made today. Not for this audience. Yeah. I don’t think, I think you’re right. And I say that, and before I had seen Hocus Posi, I had read that they had made it less dark. And because it’s a, you know, a modern young audience, they have to treat differently.

The second movie is very much in keeping with the first movie. And if you like, If you like the first movie or like me, love the first movie, you’re gonna love the sequel two. I will be honest, the first 20, 30 minutes I was like, Oh, I don’t know, this is really silly. Somehow I had blocked out in my mind.

That part one is really silly 

Todd: too. Yeah, it’s really silly. 

Craig: Once it, it is silly and once it got going and once the three witches showed up tonally it is so in keeping with the original movie and there. So many throwbacks to the original. Uh, I just, I ultimately, I absolutely loved it. We’ve already watched it twice this season too.

Wow. And Watching’s. And watching Hocus Pocus one yesterday for this podcast just made me wanna watch it again. , 

Todd: in some ways we are different people, but , 

Craig: oh gosh. I love it so much. I just think it’s so funny, but also so sweet. It is. And the second one really does a good job of keeping with themes. Some of the things that come up in, in part one, that our throwaway lines end up being.

Essential in part two, and it just works super well. And of course, all the women look great and they said, they have said, the actresses have said that they, it just felt so comfortable even 30 years later, 29 years later, just stepping back in to those characters. Huh. And, and I can’t imagine, you know, you and I act on occasion, uh, you more so professionally than me these days, but, uh, that’s something that I have never, and I’m sure will never experience, you know, to, to not only take on a role, but to create 

Todd: a role.

Yeah. It’s something original that’s never been done before. 

Craig: Right. Originate, Yeah. Originate a role and then be able to step back into it 30 years later. Like, that’s wild. What an amazing experience. And, and it really seems like they. We’re grateful. The sequel was in talks for years, for years and years and years.

And for whatever reason, it just didn’t happen. And at one point, Disney was gonna move forward with it as it made for TV movie without the original actresses. And I just thought that was such a terrible, terrible idea. Like, if that’s what you’re gonna do, just leave it alone. Just, just don’t. But that, that died.

And uh, then, you know, this sequel came to fruition and I, I’m sure a lot of it for me is nostalgia, but I think that kids still like hocus pocus. It’s one of those movies like, uh, Christmas vacation or l for even probably more like a Christmas story, you know, these older movie. That are, they stand the test of time.

Mm-hmm. , the jokes still work. Um, there’s not much in this, aside from the fact that there’s no reference to cell phones, uh, that that dates it. Mm-hmm. , It’s true. It feels like it could be 

Todd: today. You’d never noticed that this was, uh, again, 30 years old. Uh, you’re right. There’s nothing in here that dates it.

There’s, in fact, you know, it doesn’t have a cell phone problem really. There’s very little, I think in this movie that could have ever been solved by, there’s probably nothing in this movie that could have been solved by cell phones. So there’s no, not even one of those issues, uh, with it. Where anybody watching it today would be like, why don’t they just call their parents?

Or something 

Craig: like that. Right, right. Well, they even answer that question. Well, uh, yeah. Max and Danny’s parents are played by, So the, the dad is Dave. He’s played by Charles Rocket, who is infamous for having dropped an F bomb on Saturday Night Live when he was a cast member. And I think he got fired for it, if I remember correctly.

But if you were watching television in the eighties, you will recognize this man. I know him from a movie that probably nobody else has seen, but there was a movie in the eighties called How I Got Into College. Uh, and I thought that movie was hilarious. I still use clips of it in my. And then the mom, Jenny, is Stephanie Pharisee or Fary, and she has been in a lot too.

And I think that she continues to work, but I remember her as John Candy’s wife from The Great Outdoors, which oh, is one of my favorite movies. one of the funniest movies I’ve ever seen. And she’s, she’s great in it. And she’s not in this movie much, but when she is, she’s cute and funny. Just everything about it.

I love

Todd: He was in Dances with Wolves. Earth Girls are Easy. Uh, yeah, he’s, he’s, he’s been on a lot, a lot of movies and also TV series, like voices Like in in cartoons and things. Yeah. As well as video games. . Yeah. This guy’s been around. Yeah. Yeah. They’re cute. You know, like the parents are cute and they’re, they’re nice.

There’s, they’re just fun, nice little parents. Uh, and they’re just going off to a Halloween party. I think that’s what you were getting to. Yeah. Yeah. And so, uh, they’re busy at the Halloween party dancing up a storm, which is a pretty freaking awesome Halloween party. It’s, it’s the town hall. A party, which I mean, they’re getting, you know what, these, these LA parents, they know how to schmooze.

Right? When they, when they arrive, you know, they’re, they, they’re still unmatching their boxes and already they’re hobnobbing with people at the town hall Christmas part out. Love it. 

Craig: It’s hilarious. And I, I don’t who cares about, you know, jumping around, spoilers, whatever, but at, you know, they get a spell put on them that they have to dance all night.

You know, everybody at the party does, um, or dance until they die or whatever. But at the very, very end, when the credits start rolling, you see them coming out . They’re still like, especially the mom is like, I put on,

I thought LA was a party town. 

Todd: Yeah. . 

Craig: It’s so funny, these people from la, they come and this is their first experience in Salem, and they’re like, Oh yes, Salem’s rocks like

So adorable. So adorable. Yeah, that he dresses up as a vampire and she dresses up as Madonna Uhhuh, which the cone bra and the high ponytail from the nineties. Uh, see, these are the things that date it. But even that, like, I feel like even that is iconic. I don’t know if my high school kids would get it.

They might. I don’t know. That’s, that’s some pretty iconic stuff, but, Huh. Even I, I think that they would at least know who Madonna is and wouldn’t be surprised to see her in that kind of costume. So, yeah. Still the, the relationship between Max and Danny is adorable. Big brother, little sister. I can never remember.

Are your sister’s younger or older? Younger. I thought so. So, you know, like, 

Todd: Yeah, , I totally get this. I think there’s a slightly different dynamic when you’re just two kids, so you just have one little sister. Yeah. Whereas my two sisters, um, my, my sister, my oldest sister is like three years younger than me.

And the others, they’re just stairsteps. So, uh, you know, they, they just play together and they kind of have their own thing. And I was kind of my own thing, but I can see where if you were a brother and a sister relationship, you would have exactly the kind of relationship that is, uh, that is portrayed in here with the older brother, kind of taking care of the younger sister.

And what I really like about this is the sister’s personality. It could have not worked because. Sometimes it runs the risk of sounding too written and unreal, but somehow, um, it’s played well enough by, um, by tho Birch that she sells it. Uh, this younger girl who’s kind of got the, a bit of a fearlessness to her really, that her older brother doesn’t have.

Maybe also because she’s younger, you know, and he’s got more complicated relationships to navigate in high school. And he’s a little more, um, self-conscious and she’s not maybe, but, uh, I love some of her lines, uh, in this like, like, uh, she’s the one who’s kind of pushing him to get out. He, he wants to just sit home during Halloween at the beginning cuz he doesn’t want to go out and encounter those bullies again.

Craig: No way. This is my first time I’ll get lost besides a full moon outside. The weirdos are out.

Come on. Couldn’t you forget about being a cool teenager just for one night? Please, come on. We used to have so much fun together. Trick or treating. Remember? It’ll be like old times. Yeah, well, the old days are dead. It doesn’t matter what you say. You’re taking me. Eventually she just stands in the middle of the room and screams at the top of her lungs.

Mom, , this is real life. It’s true when you are a brother and a sister, and I swear to God, my s if I hit my sister. And she told on me all hell would break loose. Yeah. Like I was in so much trouble. Meanwhile, my sister is throwing scissors at me. I’m like dodging them and they’re sticking in the wall. I’m not kidding.

This is a true story, but God forbid I like defend myself. 

Todd: Right, Right. , 

Craig: that’s, And I, and I love, I love that relationship, but it be, it does, it reminds me of my little sister, but there’s one part of this movie that I think is, I, I feel like they should have cut. It’s a part where Max comes home and he’s upset cuz he is just gotten pestered by these bullies and they stole his shoes, whatever.

He goes up to his room. They live in a really awesome house by the way. Um, but he goes, he goes up to his room. His little sister is hiding in the closet that has like sled doors and he doesn’t know that of course. And then he lays down in his bed and starts thinking about the girl that he has a crush on.

This scene could have gotten really awkward, really fast 

Todd: even. It even felt slightly awkward as well, I’ll have to say. Yeah. 

Craig: Oh boy. I was just thinking to myself at like 14, 15 and like I 

Todd: see where this is going, Sister. I’m might had an Niel there. . I’m 

Craig: glad. Yeah, I’m glad she popped out when she did

But anyway, I love their relat. 

Todd: Their relationship’s cute. And then what they do go out trigger treating. And as soon as they step out the door, it’s like these bullies are waiting for them by the, by the curb and asking for their candy. And eventually, uh, he just hands them a big bag of candy and walks by.

He, he mouths off to them a little bit, but ultimately he just ca caves and gives them candy and walks on . And then her sis his sister is super disappointed and she says she punched him. 

Craig: They would’ve killed him. These tove died like a man , 

Todd: which coming out of an eight year old’s mouth to her little brother on the steps of a somebody’s house trigger treating is just hilarious.

I thought it was funny. They do end up at the house of, uh, the girl that he was dreaming about, which looked like the home alone house from the outside. I wonder if it is, I 

Craig: don’t know. A lot of this was shot on. Back lots. Um, yeah, the, the, the fountain from Friends makes an appearance. Oh gosh. There are other, there are lots of other famous houses in this movie.

I, I, you won’t recognize them. I didn’t recognize them. I read about it, but there are lots of famous 

Todd: locations. I think the Home Alone house is an. Actual house in Chicago or something. Yeah, it is. So maybe that. Yeah, maybe it wasn’t. But it looks a lot like it. And they go in and, um, when they notice it’s the girl, he, he says, Oh, Allison.

And she goes, Oh, Allison, this is the girl you were, you were dreamed about her talking about everyone’s dressed up in these like period costumes. Like they’re, they’ve come off the set of adaas 

Craig: or whatever, right? They’re all very fancy. Like, she like, she like, that’s how they e established that her family is rich.

Like they have a very fancy formal Halloween party’s. Really? I love the little girl. The little girl says something like, Ah, rich people. They’ll probably make us drink cider and bob for apples, . And then as soon as they get in there, Allison’s like once some cider . Hilarious. It’s hilarious. But yeah, the costume thing.

So funny. By the way, Danny, I love your costume. Thank you. I really like yours. Of course I couldn’t wear anything like that because I don’t have any, what do you call ’em, Max Yabos . Max likes her yabos. In fact, he loves ’em. . Oh my God. That is such a little sister thing to do. I don’t think my little sister would’ve gone that far, but maybe if she was mad enough at me.

Uh, it’s adorable, but it’s also adorable. Like they bicker and fight sometimes, but then they always make up and like it’s super cute that they’ve got each other’s backs. It is nostalgic for me. That’s the kind of relationship I had with my sister when I was younger. We were a little bit closer in age. Um, but uh, it’s just, it’s very sweet.

It reads as very real to me. Then they bring back the witches. They all do such a good job with their vocal. Acting, you know, they all have these affected voices. Mm-hmm. . Um, but, but they work and they’re very character driven and, and they are cartoonish, but still menacing and, and scary. Yeah. I know they hair.

I know they hair, but, Sniff them up, Betty. No. No. Oh, I can’t. No. Go too far. I’ve lost them. I’ll have your gut for God. You must help with when Billy the butcher gets here with my book. Look, you should be ready for the ready. Sarah. Sarah, with her star collecting children. Why? Because you’re great. Ba poon. We want to live forever, Not just until tomorrow.

The more children’s lives we stretch, the longer we shall live. Right? Let us fly sisters. I have an idea. Since this promises to be your most dire and stressful evening, I suggest reform a calming circle. I am calm. Oh sister, though I’m not being honest with myself, are we? Huh? Huh? When I talk to you about this initially and said, You know, I read that the sequel toned it down so it’s not as dark.

Your response was, I don’t remember this being dark at all. Yeah. I think that it is, and I think that there are parts that could, for children, not for adults, but for children, could be legitimately scary. Just like. Many children are very frightened of the Wicked Witch from The Wizard of Oz. You know, I don’t look at that.

I’m not scared, but I could understand how children would be just like my sister was terrified of the Goor in the never ending story, terrified. I think that this movie does have real horror elements for us as adults, and a horror of fan. It seems very light, but for children, I could see how this could be genuinely frightening, but I think that they do a good job of balancing the frightening elements with the really funny and lighthearted elements.

It so that it’s not 

Todd: overwhelming. It doesn’t stay frightening for long in any one way cuz it’s just moving at such a fast pace anyway. And then, like you said, it, it just jarringly, you know, jumps, uh, between something that might be really frightening, but then something’s really silly is gonna happen later.

Right? I really debated, I thought this might be a good opportunity. This might be something I can sit down and watch with my son who’s now I wondered. Five and a half, he’s almost six and he’s in some ways very advanced for his age in terms of his thinking and stuff. But it, I, it still surprises me and I think this is probably true of all kids, especially really young kids, it still surprised me.

You really never know what’s gonna affect them. You really never know what particular thing they’re gonna think is scary. Whereas you can show them something that you think would be scary to them and or not, whatever. And then some random shadow on a wall or something like that sudden is just utterly terrifying.

And there’s nothing so far that has really utterly terrified him, but, I did show The Wizard of Oz to him about a year ago, and I thought that would be a good gateway. , that would be a good gateway. Horror for him. Right. show him the Wizard of Oz. And, uh, he was scared about the witch, pretty relentlessly through it, but, uh, not enough that he ran screaming from the room and every time he kind of wanted to turn it off, I very gently was like, Well, we could turn it off, but I kind of wanna watch a little bit more with you more so as a dad, I wanted him to see it through to the end.

Right. I wanted to see what happens to the witch, you know, so that there’s a resolution. So he doesn’t go to bed. Super scared about it. And I could just tell him, Don’t, don’t, don’t, don’t forget, you know, the witch dies, that the witch is gone, you know, kind of thing. Yeah. At the end. Uh, and he has brought up the Wizard of Oz a lot.

In fact, he’s dressed up as a witch for Halloween last year, and he’s going to be a witch again this year for Halloween. He insisted on That’s awesome. We were gathering materials for his costume yesterday. So, um, I thought about watching this movie with him and I, but I remembered what you said to me, that it’s, it’s got some dark moments and so I didn’t, and.

Now that I watch it, I’m not sure. I’m really not sure how he would’ve taken it. I think there’s some things like the hanging that would’ve kind of gone over his head. Sure. Or would have maybe he would ask some questions about. And then there’s some other things like maybe the zombie that pops up later.

Or Sure. Just some little things that do happen. Like when, uh, bet Midler’s character is using electricity to really shock the boy and he’s on the floor and all that. I think that would bother him. But I do, I do kind of wonder if that would, like I said, be tempered by the fact that the witches are so wacky.

Right. It’s hard to say at this age. So I guess if you got a kid around five or, or six or younger, it’s kind of up in the air. I think it really depends on the personality of your child. Yeah. It’s a judgment call. Probably anyone over that age seven or older is probably just 

Craig: fine. Yeah. It’s interesting, I read that, um, not in America.

I don’t think it’s ever been censored in America, but in some other countries, when they would air it on, uh, television, they would cut stuff out. They would cut, they would still have the hanging scene, but they would cut the part where you see their feet dangling. Mm. They cut, They cut everything. That had to do with, uh, Billy Buton getting his head knocked off

Right? And, and some of these cuts led to confusion because it, it eliminated vital parts of the plot. Like it didn’t make sense right at, at the end, At the end, when Thra Birch is in a grave surrounded by salt, perfectly safe, the only reason that she’s motivated to get out of it is because Billy gets his head chopped off and she’s trying to help him get it back.

And that’s what makes her vulnerable. You cut that part of him losing his head and cut her crawling out of the. Grave to get it. You have no idea why she’s out. Like she was in a safe place. Why is she out? Yeah, I’ve read that these days. They air it in its entirety with no cuts, but for a long time with, with some pretty serious cuts, which seems weird.

It’s peachy. Yeah, it is. There’s. There’s no gore, none. Zero gore. No gore. The zombie looks fantastic. Like just a great character 

Todd: design. A little comical. It’s not like his skin’s falling off. He’s like green and you know, he, he does look a little scary cuz his mouth is so sharp. Sharp. He is a green zombie, but he’s not like, you know, it’s not gross and.

And, and I just wanna be very clear here, like I do not believe that you need to protect, that you should protect children from scary things. I think. Oh, I understand. I think you do need to tell kids scary stories. I think they do need to see scary stuff. Anyone who’s trying to shield them, their child from, from scary things is just, I, in my personal opinion, it’s just gonna create more problems down the road a hundred percent earlier.

You can slowly start to introduce them to things that they can handle and, and, and be there with them and talk them through it. I think it really helps their emotional development because the world can be a scary place and so fiction is a good way to explore and deal and learn to. To confront those emotions and deal with them before they have to actually deal with it in real life.

I mean, sadly, some kids have to deal with very scary situations, very early in life, and if, if you’ve worked them through their emotions, through fiction, then they’re better equipped to deal with it. So I’m absolutely not saying that you should not show your kids anything scary. I’m just, you know, there’s just an age appropriateness and there’s also just, as a parent, like, what do you really feel like dealing with today, , You know, Sure, I will.

I had no problem showing him Wizard of Oz, knowing that he might have nightmares for the next week that I would have to deal with. I was fine. Sure. But you know, if it had been a rough week at the job and whatnot, I, I would’ve just skipped on it. Yep. 

Craig: Yep. Makes sense. It’s sometimes difficult for me because I ate this stuff up when I was a kid.

Me too. And I, I want to share it. Younger people like my niece and nephew, they’re just not into it. Like, they’re just not and, and my, my niece has really gotten into Halloween. She loves the, uh, spirit of Halloween and she loves the spooky stuff, but she’s not interested in watching a scary movie, . That’s just 

Todd: a step too far.

Now that you mention it, I mean that I, This is what I love about Halloween, right? Is that it? We’ve talked about it before. It’s got a little something for everybody. It can be cute, it can be scary, but you’re exposed to all. Right. No matter what, like you’re gonna see some scary as well as some cute, if you’re out and about and you’re putting a costume together and you’re going to Halloween parties, you’re having Halloween at school, you’re watching Halloween movies, no matter what age you are.

And that’s what’s awesome actually about Halloween is that I feel like it itself is a good gateway, of, for my son into the, the scary, the hor Yeah. Kind of the scarier side of life and horror and, and to some extent death, you know, skeleton skulls. Sure. You know, you’re, you’re talking about this stuff.

Scary things. He, he made like a really spooky eyes that he calls spooky eyes, which, which would be the kind of thing if he saw them, I think he would be scary, scared about, but it’s a little decoration he made and it is creepy, but he wanted to put it up on the wall. Uh, he’s gotten over that in a way, you know, So, uh, it’s in that case, you know, this movie again, is like that too.

The monsters that are pursuing the kids are not the only monsters you’re gonna see in this movie. The parents are dressed like monsters. There’s all parties full of monsters. The kids are dressing like monsters. And so, you know, gosh. It’s so Halloween. Yeah. 

Craig: We’re, we’re already running over time, but I, there’s, I know so many things that I sort of say.

Let’s keep going. It’s fine. The, the party, uh, I, you know, of course the witches chase the people, the kids around, uh, it’s established that they can go to the cemetery and be relatively safe there because it’s sacred ground in the kids. Um, can’t go there. I love, or excuse me, the witches can’t like, walk on sacred ground.

I love everything about it. I love the set design, like the cemetery doesn’t look. But it looks like a perfect Halloween cemetery. Yeah. Like with these decrepit trees and these old, old tombstones. And it’s 

Todd: stylized, almost like a cartoon, just like their house is. Yes. Yeah. It’s really 

Craig: charming. It’s, the whole movie is, is cartoonish.

Mm-hmm. . Uh, and I like that about it. Well, the zombie comes and he’s great . He’s chasing them around. I love that. Like he’s ordered by Winnie to the kids have the book. So he’s supposed to get the book while the witches go and look for children or whatever. Um, but ultimately it turns out that he hates.

Winnie Sanderson, and he’s not a bad zombie. He’s a good zombie . And it’s so cute because the second that it’s revealed that he’s a good zombie, Tora Birch runs up to him and says, Hi, Billy. Like they’re best friends. , like they’re immediately best friends and it’s adorable. Yeah. And he, he protects her and he helps the kids in the end to fight the witches.

It’s so 

Todd: cute. It’s cute. I don’t know if you know anything about this, the backstory, but I’m really impressed because the witches can’t stand on solid on that sacred ground, but they can float above it on their rooms. Yeah. And so a lot of the scenes, in fact, many of the scenes in this movie involve the.

Which is sort of hovering there on their brooms. Yes. The effects are great. I mean, oh my gosh, this is 1993. There was cg, there’s a little bit of CG in this movie, but not enough a cat Yeah. To do that. And, um, and it’s just, it looks so good and they’re just so acrobatic on those brooms and I can’t even imagine the rig that was set up, I know, to make that happen.

And, and they’re just so natural on it. Uh, it’s so good for its 

Craig: time, especially some, some of those shots were done with stunt people, but the actresses did a lot of it themselves and it was harnesses that they were in. Um, and it looks so good, like, again, just practical effects. Even in the new movie, there’s clearly more movie magic going on behind it, and I kind of missed some of the.

Flying harness effects cuz they just look great. It looks real. Hmm. There’s only one place. I didn’t notice it. I read in the trivia that there is a place that you can see the wires on Mary’s broom in one place. But other than that, I didn’t see anything that made it look anything less than, than magic . I was looking and, uh, I read that it must have been good special effects because Sarah Jessica Parker was so comfortable in her harness that she wouldn’t even ask to be taken down when they would take breaks.

She just kept a copy of the New York Times under her dress and would, and would pull it out and read it. Oh my gosh. Just egging there in the harness. That’s hilarious. Oh gosh. It, it just reading things like this. I love to read these behind the scene things because reading things like that makes me, uh, so jealous.

I wanna make a movie with. Effects and be flown around. Mm-hmm. . So cool. All right, well, so there’s that, there are two big parts that I wanted to talk about that we haven’t yet. The first one is, um, when they’re looking for children and they end up this, a, a man comes out dressed as sat. And shouts to the tricky treaters who are all around them.

what kind of costumes are these? It’s the sand, the and sisters, right? That haven’t seen you for centuries. But what the heck? Why don’t you come in, Come into the non-smoking section, . Come on. Come on. Don’t step on my tail. And it’s Gary Marshall. And his, his wife played by his sister, Penny Marshall. And this scene, it could stand alone.

Yeah. Like this could just be like a short, like It is, it’s so, so funny. , I, you have to know, I mean, young people, if you’re listening to this and you have no idea who Gary and Penny Marshall are, they’re both actors and both directors. They , they’re characters, just the in and of themselves. They don’t have to act, They, they look kind of funny.

They talk kind of funny, but they are just absolutely hysterical. My three favorite witches Are you brides a little old to be trick or treating? We’ll be younger in the morning. . Yeah, sure. Me too. And this whole scene, the whole scene is just a series of gags, , like when he walks into the kitchen and thinks it’s a torture chamber, um, Mary is watching TV and sees that real life commercial from the nineties with the baby, like running around in a, like a walker type thing.

And, and she is, uh, just, it, it’s hilarious, her reaction to it. And Sarah is hitting on . Gary Marshall is the devil. And then Penny Marshall like comes to kick them out and, Oh my God. I don’t, she , she says to, uh, Sarah Jessica Parker. Okay. Tart face, take your Clark barn, get outta here. . And then they try to stand up to the wife and she’s not at all scared of them.

And she’s six her little tiny dog on them. And they’re terrified by it because it’s wearing like costume wings and horns. Like it’s a little demonn dog. Mm-hmm. and . And that was, uh, Kathleen and Jimmy’s actual dog in that scene. 

Todd: Oh, . That’s 

Craig: funny. But that scene was hilarious. And then the icing on the cake is the Halloween party at at town hall.

Todd: I said, This is all right up Craig’s Alley when I was watching. Oh my God, it’s 

Craig: wonderful. First of all, they go in there and these townspeople are dressed to the nines, like amazing costumes. This movie had a pretty low budget. It was not. Expected to be a blockbuster. So they didn’t throw a ton of money at it.

And so the costume department didn’t have a lot of money, but it was Disney, so they had access to the costume closet from Disney movies past. Yeah. And so they just went in there and raided those closets. And so these costumes are amazing. They’re, they’re gorgeous. Everybody looks great. There’s a band with dressed up like skeletons with skeleton makeup on who look fantastic.

I have no idea who. The singer was, but he’s great. Yeah. Fantastic. Uh, I think he’s singing its witchcraft when they first come in and they’re trying to convince everybody that the Sanderson sisters are real and they’re coming and their parents don’t believe them. And the Sanderson sisters arrive and the song changes to, I put a spell on you and there’s a close up on Bet Midler’s face where you can see she’s listening to it and she’s hearing the words.

And then Max jumps up on the stage and like, wrenches the microphone out of the singer’s hand. Your kids are in danger. Three or years ago, the Sanderson sisters be witch people. Now they’ve returned from their grave . Hey man, I’m serious. It’s not a joke. This has gone far enough. I know this sound’s dumb, but they’re here tonight.

They’re right over there.

Wow. Thank you Max for that marvelous introduction. And they start singing. I put a spell on you, but it becomes a real spell and they put their own chance into it and the lyrics are tailored to them. Bet Midler takes credit for writing one of the lyrics. Uh, there’s a line cuz of all the witches working.

I’m the worst. Which is a great line and she takes credit for, for that. A again, uh, bet. Midler is a legend and, uh, this, this, this performance is iconic. It’s, it’s iconic period. Drag queens love this stuff like Halloween. I can’t tell you how many social media posts and, and, and mainstream media things. I see this is drag material a hundred percent.

And, uh, their performance is great. Every time we watch it. It’s so funny. Every time we watch it, Alan is so excited at this part. And then , I’m lowering my, I’m lowering my voice cause I think he can hear me. Um, and then as soon as it’s over, he always says we have to watch that again. And then he rewinds it and we watch it again.

It’s so good. It is so, so good. It is. And so then they end up, uh, in the cemetery. Danny gets in trouble because she crawled out of her safety hole. Um, so the witch Winnie gets her, There was a whole other part that we skipped about how they brewed the whole potion, but then Max foiled their plans and spilled it and they only had enough left for one kid.

And Sarah and Mary are both like, we’ve got a whole bunch of kids here because Sarah had sang her beautiful temp to the children song, which I also love. And so all the kids from Salem had gone to their house, so they had all these kids at their disposal. But Mary is super mad because Danny called her ugly.

So she once not only to regain her youth and live forever, but she wants her revenge. So stupid decision, they go after the kids on the run instead of taking one of the hundreds of kids just standing in a trance around Right. . But, um, anyway, so they end up in the cemetery and there’s lots of fun like.

Confrontation with the witches. They’re like charging them on their brooms and Allison’s throwing salt in Sarah Jessica Parker’s face, which makes her like do acrobatic flips through the air and all kinds of stuff. Eventually Winnie gets Danny, she’s got the potion, she’s about to make her drink it, but bakes the cat, jumps on her, Mary drops the potion, Max catches it, and he drinks it so that, uh, Winnie will have to take him and not Danny.

And she comes down and lets Danny off the broom, which I thought was polite of her instead of just like, you know, throwing her off and letting her die or whatever. Mm-hmm. . But, uh, she comes down and she says, What a fool to sacrifice your own life for your sisters. And it is a throwaway line in this movie.

30 years later, it is a. deal in the second movie. Interesting. Hmm. So anyway, she, she starts sucking max life for us. But the sun comes up and the, uh, the two sisters blow up die, but in a cute way. Like they say, they’re like, Oops, bye-bye, . Yeah. Oh no. And then they blow up in glitter in their colors. And, uh, Winnie gets knocked to the ground with Max and she stands up and she’s still holding him up by his collar.

She’s trying to suck his life force. But, uh, she failed to remember that she’s now on hallowed ground. So from the feed up, she starts to turn to stone and she turns into a big stone statue of herself, and then the statue blows up. Everybody celebrates in front of the friends fountain. Um, Uh, Billy. Billy just goes back to sleep.

He just goes back to his grave and goes back to sleep. Goodnight Billy. Mm-hmm. . Then Bens is dead and Danny’s really sad, but it’s okay because his spirit has been freed of the curse. And in ASL form he’s reunited with his sister and they walk off through like a heavenly gate. Mm-hmm. . And that’s the end.

And then there’s like some caps with the parents getting out of the dance. Finally, we already talked about that and the, the bullies still being caged in the sister’s house and. Book opening its eye one last time, and then that’s the end. Oh, dude. , I apologize for totally stealing the spotlight on 

Todd: this one.

This is obviously a favorite of yours. There’s been times when I’ve said, Oh, uh, once we’ve done this movie, the podcast can end because Craig is satisfied. I feel like maybe we’ve hit another one of those moments. What else is out there that you’re just dying to do? ? 

Craig: I don’t know. I, I didn’t realize because again, like we’ve tossed it around like, eh, maybe, maybe is it really what we do?

I don’t know. But this year be because somebody outside of us, somebody outside of us suggested it and it’s Halloween and, you know, we’ve done lots of Halloween movies. But yeah, it is, it’s, it’s a favorite. I gleefully watch. Every year at least once. It, it’s something that I can enjoy with everybody. You know, My, my, my sister loves it.

Her kids love it, even though they’re not into really spooky stuff. Alan loves it. My kids at school are aware of it, you know, it’s mm-hmm. one of the few pop culture references that I can make, that they even get Well, 

Todd: they’re gonna be more aware of it now too. With the sequel coming out, I’m sure it’s bringing renewed interest onto the original and Yeah.

And like we said, it stands a test of time, so I don’t think any kid’s gonna look at the original and say, Oh, this is like an old movie. They’re not gonna feel that way. Right, 

Craig: right. And, and honestly, folks out there, if, if you liked the first one, you’re going to like the second one, give it a chance. It starts out a little goofy, but it’s great.

I was nervous, you know, because you love a movie like this and there’s the part of you that wants a sequel, but then you also know that sequels. Often don’t live up to Yeah, the original. And so sometimes you’re left disappointed in almost wishing that they hadn’t messed with what you loved. Um, and I don’t feel that way about this one at all.

I think that it is an excellent companion piece to the original. I, I, I’m confident that it will, Become part of our yearly ritual as well. We’re gonna watch both of ’em every year. back to back until we’re dead.

Todd: hilarious. 

Craig: Oh, man. All right. Well, Thank you audience for indulging me in my . Excessive, excessive focus, focus, obsession. Yeah. If you enjoyed this episode and are new to the podcast, we have literally hundreds of back episodes that you can find on virtually any platform that you can find podcasts on. We do also have a Patreon page if you’d like to be able to access some exclusive content, some minisodes personal interview about how we got started doing this, that type of stuff that is available to you.

And if you like me, would like to gush about Hocus Pocus, please feel free to drop a comment in any one of our social media pages or you can PM us if it’s private. Until next time, I’m Craig. And I’m Todd with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

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