Dolls (1987)

Episode 148, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Craig: Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig.

Todd: And I’m Todd.

Craig: And today….well, actually, lately, Todd has been very generous in letting me select, the movies that we talk about. And, I’m I’m afraid that eventually he’s gonna start to regret that decision. Are you

Todd: talking about today’s movie by chance?

Craig: Alright. So this today’s movie is, from 1987. It is, Dolls directed by Stuart Gordon. It’s a Charles Band production. It was written by Ed Naha and I picked this movie mostly because, I found it on Amazon Prime and I remembered really liking this movie as a kid. This is one of the movies that I remember distinctly from the video store because the box art was very simple, but very cool. It was just this doll holding its own eyeballs. Mhmm. And, you know, just the very simple title dolls. And for whatever reason that was very appealing to me as a kid. I found it spooky and interesting and I remember making my dad rent this for me multiple times and I remembered really enjoying it. So I was really looking forward to going back and watching it, plus it’s only an hour and 17 minutes long which is also a bonus. We like short movies. It’s true. And so I was I was stoked to, sit down and watch it again and frankly okay. Like, I don’t know if I wanna say I was disappointed because Todd that I liked about it as a kid are still there. It it has an interesting charm and it is one of those movies that I feel like I don’t know if it was intentionally geared towards kids. In fact, I don’t think that it was, but there’s something about it that I think is appealing to kids because I don’t know. It doesn’t really it kind of comes from the perspective of the child actress, who plays the lead role. But there’s also some good, practical effects and and gore effects. And those things I still appreciate. Beyond that, is it the greatest movie? No, probably not. Do you have any history with this movie at all? Had you seen it before?

Todd: Well, a lot like you, Craig. I, remember seeing the box art, the doll with his eyes pulled out and, a little bit of a skull face underneath there. But no, I never rented this before. I wouldn’t have even imagined that it is what I would almost consider, almost consider a kids horror movie. Yeah. Especially when you look at who made it. You’ve got Stuart Gordon here, who’s the reanimator guy.

Craig: Yep.

Todd: Charles Band, who did the puppet master and all that stuff. Although, those movies aren’t terribly brutal or anything like that. Mhmm. It was actually in the course of investigating this movie after I watched it that I realized that that crew of people Ed Naha, Stuart Gordon, and Brian Usna, all 3 were responsible for writing Honey, I Shrunk the Kids.

Craig: Oh, that’s right. You’ve told me that before. That’s funny.

Todd: Yeah. So, I guess I shouldn’t have been too too surprised that they can kind of that, you know, that they’re flexible people. But, yeah, coming from Stuart and Gordon and remembering what a kinda crazy movie, Re Animator was and definitely a little bit more in the schlocky horror fare, I was surprised to see that this was almost a kid’s movie. And you’re right. It comes from that kid’s perspective, and that’s what’s so charming about it. But it’s really it’s definitely not a perfect film.

Craig: No. It’s it’s not, but I feel like it had a lot of potential.

Todd: It did. It’s like it fell flat, you know. It just fell a little short of that potential. Right?

Craig: Yeah. This this strikes me as something that is ripe for a remake. Like, I feel like they Todd do a lot more with it given the opportunity. You know, it’s interesting. I I don’t remember exactly how it came about, but I believe it was, the the producer or one of the producers who came across this concept art. I don’t know if they commissioned it or if they just found it somewhere, but they had, to begin with, that box cover concept art of the doll holding its own eyeballs, and they wanted to just go from there. And they had this idea of, you know, a movie about a killer doll. And the producer just said, you know what? They gave the writer, Ed Naha, they said, you’ve got complete freedom, but we want it to be about a killer doll, and you’ve got to incorporate this box art somehow into the movie. And and this is where it went. And, you know, it’s it’s very much akin to Puppet Master. I mean It is. You know, you could almost if they had chosen to call this puppet master 5 or whatever it would have been at the time, that would have been appropriate. And and they could have easily, you know, used some of their classic puppet master dolls in place of some of these more generic dolls, and it would have felt very much like a Puppet Master movie because it is. I mean, that’s what you got. You’ve got a bunch of killer dolls basically running around and causing havoc. But it’s got this cute little setup.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: We start out with this family on the Todd, and the dad is David, played by Ian Patrick Williams, the stepmother. She’s not the child’s mother, which they make great pains of of making very clear. Rosemary and she’s played by Carolyn Purdy Gordon, who is the director’s wife and who apparently starred in several of his movies, and then the little girl named Judy played by Carrie Lorraine. And they are out on vacation apparently Yeah. And they end up getting stuck in this big thunderstorm and they have to, you know, as often happens in these types of movies, they have to find somewhere to get out of the storm and then, of course, they find this big creepy mansion.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: One of the things that I find interesting about the movie now and I don’t remember noticing it so much as when I when I was a kid and maybe it’s because when I was a kid, you’re less observant of over the Todd sorts of things, but one of the things that just struck me from the beginning is that these parents are just awful. And she and she’s so sweet like she’s this sweet cute little thing, and they are just nasty like when the car breaks down, the dad has to get out and push and, of course, the mom is just over the top awful. Like, she’s this rich bitch for lack of a better Todd, and it’s obvious that they don’t want this little girl with them and, like, they they don’t even try to hide that fact from the kid.

Todd: They’re saying in front of her. They’re saying this stuff to her. Yeah.

Craig: Here’s a

Clip: little help out here, dearest. Unless you plan on levitating this thing, I think it’s here to stay. Oh, damn. Daddy. You gonna kill that kid? Standing wide.

Todd: Yeah. You expect the sort of evil stepmother trope. You you don’t expect the the the jerk ass dad who also doesn’t want her around.

Craig: Right. And you know, they do a good job of making Rosemary. You know, she looks like an evil stepmother. You know, she’s Yeah. She’s all glammed out in her, like, turban and too much makeup and her fur coat. But the dad looks like a nice dad from a movie, but he’s not. He’s horrible too.

Todd: Why does he even have custody?

Craig: What’s the deal there? Exactly. Apparently, the the, Judy’s mom lives in Boston or something and she Judy spends the summers with her parent with her dad. And at some point in the movie, the dad’s like, I know you don’t like spending the summer with me. Guess what? I don’t really like it either. It’s terrible.

Todd: And and it’s also terrible. Like, you know, what you’re saying is so true, when you’re quoting these lines. So much of this movie, what part of what’s really flawed about it is the writing is like that. Right?

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: The writing just tells, spells out everything for us as if we can’t figure it out for ourselves. At some point, the characters are gonna say something and point things out to the audience time and time again.

Craig: Well and I’ve seen it online described. You know, I was reading about, like, the critical reception of it, and it got really mixed critical reviews at the time. Some critics liked it, some didn’t. One of them called it, a modern day fairy tale, and I don’t remember where it went that. But I get that. It is kind of like a modern day fairy tale.

Clip: It is.

Craig: And that the characters are very one note and, over the Todd, And the writing really is not that good, I guess, unless you’re a kid and you don’t really question motivation. Like, for example, when they are making their way in the rain to this old spooky mansion, and Judy’s like, that’s Teddy. He’s my best friend. We go everywhere together. And she’s And Judy’s like, that’s Teddy. He’s my best friend. We go everywhere together. And she’s like, well, not today. And she’s frozen in the woods, like, for no reason. Like Yeah. That was so mean.

Todd: She makes some flippant comment like, we’ll move a lot faster without this guy or whatever. But, like, no. She’s she’s just holding him in his arms and in her arms, and she’s walking along just fine behind you. But it’s it’s it’s pretty bad. And, also, it’s really not raining even though it’s supposed to be raining. Right. But when they’re inside the car, it’s raining on the window. As soon as they step outside the car, it’s not raining. When they’re walking down the street, it’s not raining. Although, they talk about how it’s raining and they’re getting wet.

Craig: The the Todd thing about I I mean, it’s a setup because, you know, she throws this teddy bear out into the woods and then Judy, who apparently is known for having a vivid imagination, plays out this whole fantasy in her mind where the teddy bear grows to, like, beyond life size. And That’s so wonderful. Yeah. It’s really good. And, like, it comes out of the woods looking like a teddy bear, but then, like, it busts out of its teddy bear seams to reveal this terrifying, not realistic looking, but, like, this monstrous bear that then gruesomely, like, dismembers and eats the parents. And

Todd: and then turns towards her, like, shrugs his shoulders like

Craig: Yeah. Because she says, Teddy, no. And it turns around like, oops. Sorry.

Todd: I love that bit. Actually, I thought that as as clunky as that was setting that up, I thought it really set a tone or at least

Craig: it

Todd: was trying to set a tone for what, you know, the movie is going to be like. That it’s it’s going to be a bit of a comedy, and it’s also gonna be a little kiddish. Uh-huh. Right? Again Yeah. Points out that, like you said, this is gonna be from the perspective of the girl and has to do a lot with her imagination. So, you know, I don’t know. Once once we hear later on when they keep talking about her imagination in in such a nasty

Craig: I don’t wanna hear it anymore.

Clip: No more fairies, elves, princesses, ghosts, goblins, trees. I’m sick of it all. Okay? I don’t wanna hear any more stories for the rest of the summer. Now get out of here. Go to bed. But Out. But, daddy Better do what he says, short stuff. He may not be able to give you a swap, but I can.

Craig: And that in and of itself is just awful. Like, stop having an imagination. Yeah. Like, come on. Like, it’s a kid. We were alone. But the other thing that I like about that scene is it it it evidences the fact that there are some really cool practical effects going on in this movie. And, the when there is violence and and gore and bloodshed, it looks good. Like, the the scene in which it occurs may be ridiculous, but the the effects themselves actually look quite good and I I was impressed with that.

Todd: It is. And this is, I think, something we said about Puppet Master 2. Right? About how as as ridiculous as it gets at times, that we thought that it did a pretty good job of making these puppets look real. Yeah. And giving them personality. That’s surprising, honestly, because how much, even like Barbarella, have you ever seen Barbarella? No. Those little dolls in that movie that, I think it actually shot around the same time this did. Even they don’t look as, realistic as these dolls do when they’re moving around and and doing stuff. It’s really quite cool.

Craig: I haven’t seen it, but I did read that they were inspired by that movie for the look of these dolls in this movie.

Todd: Did you really? Are you kidding me?

Craig: -No, I read that.

Todd: -Well, I’m There must be some, like, subconscious connection because at least one of those dolls looked exactly like the little dolls that come after Jane Fawn and Barbarella in one of the scenes. And I It it just sprung to my head. So, it’s interesting to hear. Well, I guess that’s why.

Craig: There you go.

Todd: My other favourite part of this movie is now, so they come to this house, and they go in, they knock on the door, and nobody answers. And so they sneak inside, into the basement. Again, to get out of the rain that that’s not there.

Clip: -Right.

Todd: -And it’s funny because, as they go inside, suddenly the rain comes down again on this girl. And as they come inside and pull her into it, suddenly, everybody’s dry again. Even though Mom is complaining about how the rain ruined her fur coat, which looks completely dry. There’s, Iike, so much of this going on in the movie Todd, that’s a Iittle distracting. But again, like you said, as a kid, you probably overlooked this sort of thing. Yeah. They come in, and the little girl sees a little something out of the corner of her eye, but and we do too, but we don’t get a quick enough we don’t get us a long enough look at it. It just looks like maybe little yellow glowing eyes or something in the corner. And this is another neat thing about this movie is this build that it gives. Whereas, as we go into this house, and as we’re going through this house, and through throughout the house, you just see little movements. You see dolls. You see them sometimes through there. Sometimes, they seem to disappear. Sometimes, they seem to be looking in a in one direction, in one Craig, and then, another direction when the shot comes back to it. And it’s so subtle in many cases and so quick that it’s really creepy. It is creepy. It’s done really well, I think.

Craig: And it it’s subtle to the extent that, like, it’s just little things that happen, but they also make no mystery of the fact that these dolls move, you know, and are animated. You know, like, you see it from the very beginning. It’s it’s not

Todd: you’re not

Craig: asking right. You’re not asking yourself, oh, are they really no. They they are.

Todd: It’s like a close-up of a face that looks left and right. You know? It’s gonna be something

Craig: like that. Exact and, like, the doll’s eyes will be a little bit bloodshot. They look they look pretty cool.

Todd: But I love this setting. This house looks fantastic. It does. This is such a great haunted house. It’s kind of like a haunted house movie. It’s like a classic haunted house movie. The way the set is decorated, the the layout of the house, and the sweet older couple who live there

Clip: Mhmm.

Todd: Who have just enough of a sinister edge.

Craig: Just enough. Yeah. Not much. Just enough.

Todd: No. It’s like, they seem okay. Like, like, at first, you think, Oh, man, these guys stepped into the lion’s den. But then, as the scenes go on, and we get to know more about this couple and, their names are Gabriel and Hillary.

Clip: Mhmm.

Todd: And they’re older. And they’re both recognisable actors, an an actress in this movie. Actually, Hillary, you might have recognized from Don’t Look Now.

Craig: Oh. No. I didn’t recognize her. That’s funny.

Todd: She’s she’s the blind woman.

Craig: No. I didn’t notice that and I didn’t know if they were recognizable or if they were just So archetype. Right. Exactly. Exactly. But in a good way, you know, like this old British couple and he’s tall and distinguished and handsome, and she’s a little bit more diminutive, but they’re both gray haired and they just seem like this sweet couple. And and they, like, it’s almost ridiculous how inviting they are. Like, yes yes, they greet them in the basement with the shotgun because these people broke into their house. But as soon as they see that they have a little girl with them, then they are very welcoming and inviting and say you can stay here. That’s fine. Eventually, some other people show up. This guy this this bigger guy, Ralph. And when I say bigger, I don’t mean, like, you know, morbidly obese, and I also don’t mean, like, you know, professional wrestler. Just, you know, this kinda portly nice looking guy. Yeah. He shows up, and he has picked up these 2 hitchhikers who we actually saw on the street when the other people were driving along who are dressed in their best Madonna Craig. Like, I Yeah. One of them is dressed specifically like Madonna and the other one is very much inspired and actually wears the boy toy belt that Madonna wore in the eighties. Yeah. And they’re funny.

Todd: And they have the heaviest cockney accents you could they could possibly muster.

Craig: Absolutely. And, I didn’t recognize either of them, but one of them, Isabelle, was the girl the the hot girl from the Take on Me video which is

Todd: Oh, really?

Craig: Yeah. Which is one of the greatest music videos of all time.

Todd: Of all time. And one of the best songs of all time too.

Craig: Yeah. It’s really good. But, you

Todd: know, they’re totally playing to type. Punk eighties, the hooligans. Yeah.

Craig: Right. Right. Bunty Bailey was her name. It’s a great name. Is that a

Todd: given name?

Craig: I I don’t know. But so all these people show up, and it turns out that Gabriel is a toymaker, which it and and he has this little monologue where he explains that kids today aren’t interested in the kinds of toys he makes anymore. The kinds of toys that are made with love and care and that are, you know, one of a kind. And, of course, Judy’s like, I do.

Clip: One thing I’ve noticed about you, you don’t have a doll. That doesn’t seem natural to me. A little girl without a doll is somehow incomplete. I had Teddy when I left the carvet. But the clumsy little deer dropped him in the forest. I I dropped him in the forest. That’s a shame. I can’t replace Todd, but I can make sure you have some company whilst you’re here.

Craig: So Gabriel gives her this doll, which is a a punch. He calls it mister Punch. It’s a punch doll. And, of course, it’s a play on Punch and Judy, which I don’t really know the history of this. Do you like, the name is familiar to me and I recognize the look of the doll with the hooked nose and he’s like a jester. But Punch and Judy, was that like an old TV show from, like, the fifties?

Todd: Oh, Punch and Judy goes back even further than that. I think it’s, like, goes back to medieval times. This was a classic 2 character, and, historically, puppets, like, a puppet theater kind of thing. Well, it’s one of those things, one of those British things, you know, like pantomime and whatnot

Clip: Gotcha.

Todd: Where, yeah. You just had this this Punch doll and this Judy doll. And they would argue and fight with each other. And Punch actually would would hit Judy with, like, a bat or a club or something like.

Craig: Oh, now that you say that I can see it in my mind. Mhmm. So I know that I’ve seen it, or some iteration of it.

Todd: And it looks just like this doll. Yeah, the classic punch look is is this this doll here. So yeah, that that was that was cute. I I thought it was hilarious when they’re at the table and they’re discussing, stuff, and I don’t know what what work one guy does. And then Rosemary asks, what kind of work is that? Witchcraft? You remember that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they and they both look at each other and then and these two forced laughs like, oh my gosh.

Craig: You figured us out. Yeah. It’s it’s funny. Like, they blow it off. And and so all these people are together in this spooky old mansion, and Gabriel takes them all around and gives them their own rooms. And, the wicked parents are pleased that they’re gonna have their own room and Judy’s gonna have a different room. Mhmm. Judy and Ralph are the last ones to be escorted to their rooms. And before they even get that, Gabriel shows them, like, his workshop, I think. Ralph is enamored immediately like you see.

Todd: Ralph is a little too overly excited about Todd, I’m afraid.

Craig: He is, but it’s cute. And it’s funny It’s cute. It’s funny because it’s like he knows that he shouldn’t be so excited about it, but he is. And Gabriel picks up on that immediately and he’s like, oh, you like dolls Todd. And he’s like, oh, well, yeah. I did when I was a kid. And he has a whole story that I feel like, you know, this had to be one of the bases of the plot.

Clip: My father taught me everything I know. Funny. I was just thinking about my dad. He used to tell us stories about how toys woke up after we were asleep, and they’d start to wander all over the house.

Todd: So I

Clip: stayed up night after night to see if I can catch my toys playing on their own. Never made it, but,

Craig: I figured, well,

Clip: if they’re having such a good time with or without me, they might as well eat. So I, I started leaving cookies for them under my bed. And what happened? I raised several healthy families of ants.

Craig: As it turns out, I if I remember correctly, he lost his parents when he was very young. And so he’s kind of held on to some of these childhood things and then in fact, he does, you know, kind of have an affection for toys and dolls and stuff, which ultimately ends up being significant to the plot. It’s silly and it’s over the top and the actor who plays him, Stephen Lee, plays it over the top. Yeah. It’s cute. Like, he feels like a big kid and he feels like a suitable companion for Judy and that and they do. They come together. They bond. When Judy starts seeing things and hearing things in the house, she goes to her parents, but her parents don’t believe her at all. And so she goes to Ralph eventually and is like, do you believe kids when they tell you stuff? And he’s like, yeah. I guess. And she tells him the stuff that’s going on. And even though he’s skeptical, he doesn’t just brush her off like her parents do. And it’s nice. They have a cute little relationship.

Todd: And this is this is again I believe we talked about this in another movie too. Oh, it must have been Invaders from Mars. Right? Where that’s like every kid’s kind of fear and also fantasy. It’s that adults will believe me. Right? -Right. -And this movie plays on that as well. Ralph is the kid at heart. He’s the only adult who’s gonna believe the kid. And even though he is over the top with it, he he’s got kind of an aw shucks way of of going about it all. He has this, like, naivete and innocence that’s, you know, really unbelievable, but it’s also really cute. And it’s fun to see in this movie. And, at least, you kinda know where everybody’s going to stand. Like, there’s no question Ralph is gonna live through this, you know. Right. Right. And and, also, I feel like that scene, that early scene when they have that discussion about the dolls, not only does it set up that really important plot point and, again, hit you on the head with this whole, oh, yeah. Dolls come to life, as if we haven’t seen enough dolls coming to life just before this. It it also, really, I think, kind of establishes that if you are cool with the old people, you’re gonna be fine. Right. Right? That these these old people are not, you know, it’s not like you you stumbled into Dracula’s den and they’re out to get you. It’s They are kindly old witches or whatever. -Yeah. -They all make their wits out. -Right. Yeah. Yeah. But they’re nice and friendly as long as you’re also nice and friendly.

Craig: And that’s how it turns out. I mean, it’s all it’s really a test, really. Mhmm. If you’re a good decent person, you’re gonna be okay. And if you’re an asshole, then you’re gonna get what’s coming to you.

Todd: And and our first asshole is the one of the one woman that dressed like Madonna.

Craig: Right.

Todd: What was her name? Was she

Craig: Isabelle. She was Isabelle.

Clip: Did you hear what she said? Yeah. We can play the radio for a while. Oh. About the antique keys. Well, what about them? But this place is loaded with them. I bet they’re gold jewelry and stuff stashed somewhere. We could swipe it tonight, leave in the morning, and those 2 would notice it for days, or maybe even years. No. They call the police. You see any phones around? We could make a fortune here. Wow.

Craig: A lot more than we

Clip: could nicking old Ralphie boy’s wallet.

Todd: And so she goes out because she’s less afraid of wandering out in the dark by herself. And I think she’s even holding like a lighter or a candelabra or something. That’s the other cute thing about this movie. It’s like, nobody has a flashlight.

Craig: No. And there’s electricity in the house and yet, they will still walk around with these great candelabras, but that’s fun. It’s a great haunted house feel. Again, it

Todd: gives it that good feel. Right? It’s like House on Haunted Hill. It’s like the same kinda deal. So that she’s wandering around this house. And, again, this house is awesome. And it is so classic, haunted house. And it’s filled with antiques. This movie doesn’t look cheap at all in this way. Anyway, she wanders around and sure enough, as she’s rifling through the drawers and things, we see dolls looking at her, turning towards her. Again, they’re dolls stuffed in every nook and cranny of this house including on top of a mantle, of a room that she’s in, of a fireplace of a room that she’s in, and she turns and she opens a music box and she walks away and the music box, you know, opens back up again and then, this is kind of all this back and forth until the dolls finally jump on her. She’s on the floor and something is dragging her across the floor and then grabs her arms and pulls her arms out and slides her towards the wall and just basically hits her head into the wall several times and then slides it out into the hallway where Judy sees it, because she’s up getting a drink of water. And that horrifies her as this Madonna girl looks up at her with this bloodied bruised face, reaches up in that classic help me pose, and gets sucked around the corner, again by these unseen dolls.

Craig: Yeah. I thought that scene was good too, and it was, effectively brutal. You know, she gets her face smashed up against the the baseboard and stuff, and and I thought that it was especially brutal because Judy witnesses the aftermath and it is pretty gross and, like, for a kid to see that kind of stuff is a little unsettling.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: But I I wanted to go back to what you were saying about the house because it is so cool, and they built all of that. Like, apparently they built this 2 story structure in a soundstage and it was, you know, really just like the interior of a house with hallways and rooms that they could enter and exit out of, and all around it, you know, was there was no exterior. It was just the interior on the sound stage, but you’re right. It looks great. I mean, it’s it’s so convincing as this old spooky house and they do it up so well. And one of the other things that I liked about it is that the dolls and the toys are so omnipresent, like, they’re everywhere and there are tons of them. Everywhere you look there are these dolls and they’re these old fashioned like porcelain faced dolls, most of them, and from afar, they look very normal. But when you whenever they do close ups on them, they’re obviously, you know, effects created dolls with with movable eyes and even their faces have some mobility, and they’re they’re super spooky. You know, this was made in the eighties and it was made primarily with practical effects and there are some times I noticed at least once, when you can see the strings manipulating them.

Todd: Oh, yeah.

Craig: But but I didn’t care. I don’t know. I just thought it was fun and that’s the thing. It’s not a great movie. It’s really not. Yeah. There’s really you there’s a lot of criticism that you could hurl at it, but there’s also some really cool stuff going on and and I I don’t know, for that alone I at least appreciate it. It’s it’s kinda cool on that level.

Todd: You know, you do hate to you do hate to knock this movie too much because it does have a lot of heart. Yeah. And it’s effectively made. Not effectively made. It’s well made. You know, I mean, so much of it is well made. The cinematography is fantastic. Again, some of these actors, mostly the old people, you know, are really quite good. Nobody else is. The girl’s not very good. You know, I was just thinking Ralph reminds me a little bit of, like, a younger Sean Austin. He was giving me a little bit of that Sean Austin vibe.

Craig: Yeah. I I can see that a little bit. It’s funny you you said that and then my mind immediately went to Sean Penn, and I’m thinking maybe a little bit more Chris Penn.

Todd: No. Like, Goonies era, Sean Austin, you know.

Craig: Well, he’s got that kind of, you know, dough wide innocent

Todd: thing going on. It’s hilarious when Judy goes in to wake him up and do what you had said earlier and, you know, to wake him up and say, hey, do you believe kids when they say things? And he’s sort of like, yeah. Sure. And she says, well, these dolls would have killed this this girl. And he’s like, oh, okay. I’m going back to bed. And she’s like, oh, you said you’d believe me. And kinda shakes him. And as she walks away, he looks down and he sees.

Clip: What’s that on your slippers? I don’t know. That’s blood. Yeah. Well, it was pretty bloody when they dragged her away.

Todd: So funny.

Craig: It is funny. And there are part, you know, like, I don’t know if they were intentionally playing it for comedy, but there are parts that are so over the top especially towards the end that, you know, they they had to kind of at least be a little bit in on the joke.

Todd: I think so. I think so.

Craig: But I’m I’m cool with it, like, that’s fine. Basically then, you know, from here what happens is all of the bad people kind of get picked off as Judy and Ralph are kind of walking around and exploring. And I think the next one to go is the stepmother. Right? Rosemary?

Todd: Mhmm.

Craig: It’s it’s very simple, you know, like she’s just laying in her bed and all of a sudden she starts seeing things under her covers moving and the dolls are giggling. The dolls are always giggling. I read that the director, you know, it was his wife and kids and family friends and things who recorded all of these giggles, that were that are pretty funny. So she throws the covers off and what do you know? They’re here are all these dolls. Mhmm. And and they, you know, they look mean, like, they’ve got mean faces and they’ve got, like, knives.

Todd: They’re all stabbing.

Craig: Yeah. And that’s it. And they do. They start stabbing her and then she gets up and they’re They’re like like trying to hack off her limbs with a hacksaw while she’s just standing there and, like, having their

Todd: They have a hacksaw.

Craig: And eventually, you know, eventually she, you know, kinda starts trying to fight back. And it all happens relatively quickly. And and again, eventually, like, the dolls are every time she turns around, there’s just like dozens of dolls, like, in her path menacing her. And eventually, I don’t know what her thought process was here. No. She goes and takes a flying leap over one of the groups of dolls out the window. And apparently that’s what killed her. Now I read that when they initially shot the movie and the producers watched it, they wanted more gore. And so they actually went back in and refilmed a bunch of shots with a lot more gore. And one of the shots that they filmed was one of the dolls disemboweling Rosemary with a pitchfork. And and there were lots of other things Todd, apparently, but then I guess they shot all that footage and then they went back and watched it with all that footage and they were like, yeah, never mind. Too gory. It’s a little too much.

Todd: I would almost argue it’s already too gory. Like, it just, tonally it this movie, I think, almost could have been a little more successful if well, I don’t know. Probably not. But, you know, there’s a lot more that had to be improved. But it could have been a little more successful if it had been more squarely aimed at kids, I

Craig: think. Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. And the only thing that keeps it from being squarely aimed at kids is I I said to my wife, I said, you could cut 10 seconds out of this movie and you could show it to to any kid.

Craig: Right. But without cutting those 10 seconds, probably not because it it is pretty brutal and and the effects look pretty good. They look pretty real and bloody and gross and

Todd: Mhmm.

Craig: Yeah. Probably a little too much for little kids. Now I I guess maybe I was just a weird little kid because that stuff didn’t bother me. But I certainly wouldn’t show it to my niece and nephew yet. You know? Like, they’re 10 and 7. No. Too little.

Todd: They’re not as weird as you, Craig.

Craig: I know. And it makes me sad all the time, but it’s alright. And then so Rosemary gets killed and then, Todd, was that her name, the other Madonna girl, she goes out looking for Isabelle. And this was it’s, I don’t know, kinda cool, I guess. Like, she makes her way up to the attic where where, Isabelle has been dragged and she’s looking around. And the first time she’s up there, she actually ends up getting up there a couple of times. But the first time she’s up there, she doesn’t find anything. But we see Isabelle tied up in a corner in the dark and, frankly, it just looked like the actress wearing a doll mask at first.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: But the the idea that you’re supposed to get is that she’s turning into a doll. And eventually Todd makes her way back up there and she finds Isabelle. And this is where we get the homage to the cover art that the producer demanded. Isabelle, like, leans forward and her doll eyeballs fall out of her head into the pool of blood between her legs and she picks them up and holds them next to her head, and Enid screams and tries to run away. And then the dolls get her. And I I liked this scene too because one of the things I don’t know if we’ve talked about it on the podcast, but I think that you and I have talked about it. Like, even, about, like, the child’s play series. Like, how are these people getting killed? Like, it’s a doll.

Todd: Just Yeah.

Craig: Pick it up and toss it away. Yeah. And I I liked that this movie addressed that to an extent. Like, when she’s fighting the dolls, eventually she pulls off her boy toy belt with the big boy toy belt buckle, and she just starts whipping them with it. And that is effective for a while. She can keep them at bay.

Todd: And she’s burning them. Yeah.

Craig: Yes. Yes. And and there’s also some cool stuff here, like, when she breaks away their porcelain faces, there’s, like, these decrepit monstrous looking skeletons underneath, which is kinda cool.

Todd: Well, and that was unexpected to me. And, again, I guess, maybe maybe that comes from the the cover art. Right? But it makes us different. See, when when you watch this and you’re first watching it, and the guy says that he’s a doll maker and he has his workshop and he has legitimate doll parts and everything everywhere, you’re thinking this is kind of a Toulon thing. Right? That he is he’s made these these these plastic and porcelain dolls come to life. But what we’ve later find out as this goes along as evidenced by Isabelle, you know, turning into a doll, is no. They’re turning people into dolls. And so that’s what makes the dolls alive. They’re just like creatures that are just, like, disguised as dolls. It’s like Right. So when they break when they you know, their porcelain shatters, and underneath them is just, like you said, this kinda gross looking face that’s like, I guess, supposed to be a shrunken human without skin or something. It’s, it’s definitely shocking, and it’s nice to get a little twist like that at this point in the film. Yeah. And I thought, legitimately, that bit when earlier on when they’re up in the attic looking around and they don’t see her but we do Mhmm. That is the creepiest part of the whole film.

Craig: Yeah. It was kinda creepy. And and it’s funny because I again, I was, you know, just reading stuff about this and they had already released the girl who played Isabelle, so it was actually the director’s wife who plays Rosemary. It was actually her.

Todd: Oh, really?

Craig: Yeah. It was actually her under that mask. And, you know, it’s we talked about this. We talked about this when we reviewed 31 about how Rob Zombie cast his wife all the time. Apparently, Stuart Gordon worked with his wife regularly. I think she was in Re Animator. She was in a few of his other movies too. You know, just to read kind of some of the backstory of some of this that it’s cool to see how these people who have intimate relationships with one another support each other. You know? Like Yeah. Carolyn Purdy Gordman Gordon, not only did she play her own role, but then she also played Isabelle when she was turning it she was also, you know, some of the voices of the laughing dolls. I don’t just those little production details are just kind of interesting to

Clip: read about.

Todd: I do I do have to say that this girl’s demise, much like much like her demise, is really disappointing. You know, she puts up a good fight, and she does her own version of jumping out the window, where she comes in front of a line of Todd soldier dolls. And for some reason, this stops her in her tracks, Like, she doesn’t wanna whip them, and there’s not really clear why. And she just stands there

Craig: Mhmm.

Todd: While the general doll raises his saber and the lineup of infantry dolls shoots her. And they shoot, like, real bullets, I guess. And they blast her away. Like, why didn’t she just run up and kick them over?

Craig: Right. Of course. Of course. Why not? But at the same time, I kind of liked it because it was okay, I can just whip them with my belt and then they’re not dangerous anymore. And then she comes out and she sees and the the toy soldier dolls are super cute. Like

Todd: Mhmm.

Craig: They look like super cute toy soldiers and but then they end up being deadly, and it’s kind of the answer to that question. Like, yeah. You can whip some of us, but we have guns. So

Todd: And hacksaws. Yeah.

Craig: And and they do, like, they blow her away. Like, you know, she’s got squibs under her, clothes that blow out. Like, it’s it’s pretty gruesome.

Todd: Yeah. It really is.

Craig: And then she’s done then there’s a scene where Judy and Ralph are looking around and they end up in the storage room. And this was my favorite scene with the dolls because this was when the dolls were the most animated. First of all, they were they reveal themselves. Judy, at some point, sits down with Ralph and she’s got her punch doll and punch speaks.

Clip: Do you know something that I don’t know? I, I guess I do. Oh, honey. I wish I knew what you were talking about. You know Ralph. Deep down inside, you know.

Craig: They reveal themselves and then they end up in this, storage room and all the dolls animate and and come to life and they’re not threatening.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Actually, now that I say this is my favorite part with the dolls, this is also maybe the part that frustrates me the most because I feel like Ralph acts totally out of character in this part. Yeah. Because he starts he’s like, well, we gotta get out of here. Damn these dolls. And he starts like stomping on them and stuff and I get why for the purposes of the plot The plot. He needed to do that, but it just seemed out of character.

Todd: It was a it was a 180 degrees out of his character.

Craig: Right. You’re right. And It put him on the same level as all the other adults, which

Todd: And it was stupid because the whole reason that the dolls are not attacking, for example, Judy, is because she’s kind and she’s nice and she respects them. And Ralph, the whole time through, was on the same plane as Judy. And so it makes no sense for him to be doing this except to service the plot, and that was so transparent Yeah. And it really annoyed me too.

Craig: Yeah. Me too. You know, ultimately, it works out because, you know, they so the dolls get pissed as they should and, they start attacking him until Judy screams at them, Todd. Stop. He’s my friend. And they do stop and then Judy and Ralph sit there while the dolls have like a like a conversation.

Todd: They have like a like a powwow.

Craig: Yeah. And and we can’t understand what they’re saying, but apparently, Judy can. And she keeps saying they’re trying to decide whether you’re a grown up or you’re just this kid disguised as a grown up. Yeah. And Ralph’s like, I’ve been trying to figure that out my whole life. But, ultimately, the dolls are benevolent and let them go. Meanwhile, the dad, David, finds Rosemary’s dead body in the bed. And it that’s kind of a stupid and gross scene where the dead body somehow mysteriously, like, crawls on top of him. Like, it doesn’t even make any sense.

Clip: No.

Craig: But he thinks that Ralph did it for whatever reason. I don’t know. So he goes out looking for them and he finds them in the basement and he starts attacking Ralph, but then Punch, the doll, sticks up for Ralph and starts attacking the dad. Ultimately, there’s kind of a fight between them and it’s it’s kinda cute and funny because Punch the Doll is is cute and laughing and stuff. But eventually, David gets the better of him. Meanwhile, the the dolls have just pulled Judy and Ralph away. Like like, we’re just gonna get you out of here. And so David, defeats Punch and stomps his head in and then the old couple shows back up. And there’s this whole scene where they’re talking to him. It’s funny because he calls Hillary, you old witch, and she’s, like, oh, you figured it out. So it turns out they are witches. And the old guy says to him

Clip: Hillary and I think the bitterness people feel as adults can turn to love if they surrender to the goodwill toys provide. Some people could be saved. We give everyone a sporting chance. Or the others, like you, well, they have to stutter and play a new role in a big game.

Craig: Out of nowhere, David, we see that he’s in pain, like he’s writhing in pain, and then he transforms in a very cool practical way into punch the doll that he has Todd, destroyed. And so that’s where, you know, like, you’ve already alluded to it, but that’s where we are cemented the idea that these that’s what these people do. They’re witches and they kind of, you know, take these people in and they test them. And if you pass the test, if you’re a decent person, then you’re all Todd. And if you’re a jerk, then you get turned into a doll and you become part of their collection.

Todd: Uh-huh. And

Craig: I don’t know that’s kinda it’s kinda cool.

Todd: It is neat. And that’s where it gets a little fairy tale ish. Right? Yeah. That’s where

Craig: it’s

Todd: kind of like a like a version of Hansel and Gretel, which I in in ironic, not so ironically, the girl was reading in bed Yeah. Yeah. During the day. So

Craig: Well, and I think part of what makes it so effective is that the these older actors, the ones that play the elderly couple, they’re very good and very convincing. Yeah. And I I liked them a lot. And so they really sold, this explanation at the end.

Todd: They were the only ones to sell it. They were the only ones to sell this movie, to be honest. Yeah. And then I just think the ending is so funny, and and this is such a tongue in cheek ending. I mean, they had to do this laughing hysterically. Because then, I guess, they sort of fall asleep because in suddenly the old couple wakes up Ralph and Judy, And they’re like, oh, like like, what happened? What happened? And they’re like, well, you guys were out for a while. You were sleeping and and whatnot, and and so we woke you up. And Judy’s like, well, where is my dad and my stepmom? And the the grandpa says, oh, I’m really sorry to have to tell you this, Judy. And he pulls a note out.

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: It’s ostensibly written from them saying that they’ve left, and that they, left enough money for a plane ticket to Boston so that she can rejoin her mom.

Craig: And they’re moving to a different country and changing their names. Changing their names.

Todd: That’s right. So don’t bother looking for it.

Craig: And then and then Ralph’s like, well, what about the 2 girls that I came with? And he’s like, oh, yeah. Hold on a second. And he pulls out the release again. He’s like, PS, I took the 2 hitchhikers with me. And then Ralph’s like funny. Let me see the note and the guy just tosses it in the fire.

Todd: Oh, that’s right. And Ralph’s like, well, what about me? And he says, oh, well, they left enough money for your plane ticket

Craig: too. Yeah.

Todd: And so they just kinda have to accept that, and they leave.

Craig: The old people are like, we went out to check on your car in the night. We managed to get it out of the mud. Oh, you did? You old decrepit people. Cool. Awesome.

Todd: That’s right.

Craig: And, then when they’re when Judy and Ralph are driving away, Judy’s like, you’ll really like my mom. She’s young and pretty. Have you ever wanted a daughter?

Todd: Apparently, there was supposed to be a sequel to this. Yeah. They had they had written up where Judy and Ralph go away, and Ralph ends up marrying Judy’s mother and becomes her father. And then, they get in the mail 2 dolls that are The toymakers. Yeah. The toymakers. And that would have been kinda interesting to see where to go with that. Yeah, it’s a shame that that didn’t happen. They’ve He made plenty of Killer Doll movies since here, though. -I mean, you -Yeah. -This was just the beginning. -Yeah. -For Charles Band. And then, it has kind of an interesting cap at the end where the We see a long shot of the house and in front of the house, we see another car pull up and get stuck in the mud and this is all while the credits roll and sure enough like a mother and father pop out of the car and come around and check it. It’s just it’s just like a replay Right. Of the previous scenes. And they have 2 kids that they yank out of the car, that they’re clearly treating poorly. And we see that this is just gonna happen all over again. So, yeah.

Craig: Which is I liked I liked that. I liked that they included that. You know, it kind of adds to the mysticism of the whole thing, like, you know, this just kind of plays on a loop, you know. This is what these people do.

Todd: Yeah. Like, there’s something that draws bad parents to this house and forces them into this situation.

Craig: Well and and that’s very fairy tale too in that, you know, the the bad people get what’s coming to them and the good people live happily ever after. And I don’t know. I like that aspect of it. Really, talking about it with you, I’m appreciating it more than when I was watching it yesterday Yeah. Because it’s it’s easy to identify its flaws of which there are many. But there is something charming about it Todd, and and I can understand why I enjoyed it so much as a kid. Oh, and one thing that we left out was, when they were leaving, Judy says, oh, I wish I could say goodbye to mister Punch. And the guy, Gabriel, pulls out the punch doll who we know is his dad because and he’s even dressed in the dad’s pajamas. Mhmm. And she’s like, goodbye, mister Punch. I love you. And in the dad’s voice, he says, bye short stuff. And, like, Ralph and Judy kind of look at it weird, and then they just leave. I I remember as a kid thinking that was weird. And it’s it’s dark. You know? Like, it just hurt her dad, her father is gone and, like, damned to be in this toy forever. But he was a jerk anyway. So she’s better off. It would have been it would have been

Todd: even darker if they had handed her the doll. Yeah. Well, it’s funny like you said. I mean, you kinda wanted not like this movie, and there were times when it really felt like it was dragging. Even though it’s only, like, an hour and 15 minutes long. Right. And there’s so much that’s corny and goofy about it, but it’s got a lot of good things going. And like I said earlier, its heart was really in the right place. And it works as almost it almost works as a kid’s horror movie. It just Mhmm. Fails on a little too many levels to to be a good movie. But it’s from the same pedigree, you know, as Troll.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: And, you know, these people later on went on to make Honey I Shrunk the Kids. I mean, Troll is is better, I think, as a kid’s horror movie. Oh, yeah. But this one is not worse by too many degrees.

Craig: Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s got its charms. I’ll give it that. And, if you haven’t seen it, if you’re a horror enthusiast and you haven’t seen it, it’s on Amazon Prime. I’m you could probably find it on YouTube. I don’t know. It’s not like, you know, it’s some classic that people are guarding carefully. It’s I’m sure it’s widely available. And if you haven’t seen it, it’s worth checking out. It’s only an hour and 15 minutes of your time. Yeah. It’s it’s worth giving it.

Todd: And laughing at and stuff. And I will I will absolutely I I won’t watch this again, but I’ll probably watch at least one more time with with my son.

Craig: Sure. Sure. Some somewhere down the line. Yeah.

Todd: In the distant future.

Craig: Alright. Well, thanks for hanging with us for another episode of 2 Guys in a Chainsaw. If you have any comments, about this movie, if you remember it fondly or if you, know anything to you because I always screw it up. 2 guys dot redfortynet.com. Todd you go. We love hearing from you, and we appreciate you taking your time to, give us a Until next time, I’m Craig And I’m Todd. With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.