Better Watch Out (2017)

Episode 109, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig:  And I’m Craig.

Todd:  Well, ’tis the season once again, and this time, we have a straight out Christmas horror film. We don’t get too many of those each year, although they do seem to be increasing with a little bit of frequency. Craig and I were able to find better watch out, which I think was released this year, 6th October. And this is a film directed by Chris Peckover and written by Zach Kahn. For both of them, this is well, this isn’t the first thing Zach Kahn has written. He’s written some TV episodes. Looks like he he wrote for Mad TV. Chris Peckover, this is, Todd all intents and purposes, it seems like this is his very first film. And, you know, it doesn’t show. It’s really well done. This movie is probably the most of Christmas horror films I’ve ever seen, almost to the point where it, like, it makes a point of throwing a sprig of holly or a Christmas light or something in every single frame.

Craig:  And if they can’t

Todd:  do that, then they got the Christmas music playing. What did you think of this film, Craig? This was your suggestion. What made you decide to Todd pick this one?

Craig:  I had just heard of it. Like you said, it gets kinda slim pickings after a while when you’re doing holiday movies. But it seems like this year and I don’t know if it has to do anything with, Krampus, doing pretty well last year or whenever it was that we did that when it came out. But it it seems like there were several new Christmas horror movies this year and I heard about this one when it was being made and it just, I don’t know, it looked intriguing, so I thought we’d give it a shot, and I’m glad we did. It was I don’t know, it’s an interesting little movie. I was really surprised. It’s kind of a coincidence that we just recently reviewed The Babysitter, because this movie has a lot in common with that movie, but, ultimately, they’re quite different too. I think that we should probably say early on that, if you haven’t seen this movie and you’re planning on it, turn this off. You you should you should go watch the movie first because this is a movie that relies pretty heavily on some big plot twists, and of course, we’re going to spoil those. You can find it on most platforms. I think it’s on Netflix now and and Amazon, so it’s it’s pretty widely available. So, take we’ll wait. Go ahead. Go out and watch it and then and then Oh, you’re back.

Todd:  Okay. Yeah. Alright. I hope you enjoyed this. Can we have some of that leftover popcorn? But this movie is through in and throughout a completely a Christmas horror film.

Craig:  Yeah. It is. And but it’s funny because it doesn’t it doesn’t have to be. No. We don’t. Like, it it could take place anywhere, anytime, but they it’s it’s festive. Everybody’s wearing fun Christmas sweaters and going to Christmas parties, and there’s, you know, Santa’s everywhere. There’s Christmas music. So, Todd definitely entrenches itself in the holiday, but, ultimately, the plot doesn’t really have much to do with Christmas. But That’s true.

Todd:  That’s fun nonetheless. It’s not a killer Santa movie or or, you know, rabid reindeer or anything like that.

Craig:  Right. Right.

Todd:  But but the warmth of this movie, like, I feel like the movie intentionally took kind of a home alone approach in some ways to how it was shot. It really evokes that that feeling just in the colors and the tones, the use of music, and even even a lot of the camerawork in it. It just if there weren’t so many disturbing things happening in this movie, you you feel like you’re cuddling up to a fire on Christmas Eve, you know, with this with this one, I think. It’s good that way.

Craig:  It jumps right into it. I mean, it when it opens up, the opening credits are in kind of, you know, this very Christmassy scroll. You know, it’s very reminiscent of, like, a Christmas story or something like that. You know, the very first scene is of a snowman and joy to the world is playing, but then right off the bat, you also get a sense of what the tone of the movie is gonna be because the snowman gets decapitated by a neighborhood kid, and the little kid, I guess, who made the snowman chases off the decapitator and says, you buttfucker. Like, I’m pretty sure that’s the first line of the movie. I think you’re right. And so and so you get a pretty good sense of what the tone of the movie is gonna be. And, ultimately, I think that you would have to qualify this movie as a dark comedy

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  Because there there’s certainly a lot of humor, but the humor really is quite dark. In fact, this was the second time that I had watched it, and really watching it the second time around I actually enjoyed it more because I was less concerned about, you know, keeping up with what was going on, and just kind of appreciating the writing and whatnot. And it’s funny, but even in the moments when it’s funny, the the humor is is really dark. Yeah. Alt ultimately, this is a pretty freaking dark movie. It is. Yeah.

Todd:  It is a really dark movie, and I think it almost straddles the line of plausibility in some ways. Believability, just because the age of the characters is such and the way that the characters are drawn. The main character in particular, Luke, who starts out as this cute, just normal seeming, what, 12 year old?

Craig:  12. Yeah.

Todd:  He’s so drawn just on the cusp of puberty where he’s a little insecure, he’s starting to think about girls, he seems very naive, and but yet there’s acuteness and naivete that is drawn on with such thick paint in the beginning, just so that later on in the movie, they can completely flip it upside down. And I realized that was a choice that they are trying to make that contrast, but the contrast is so strong that it almost pushes the limits of of believability. You know what I’m saying?

Craig:  Yes. I totally know what you’re saying because that’s exactly the way that I felt the first time I watched it. Now the second time I watched it, I had a little bit of a different appreciation for it.

Clip:  Oh, yeah.

Craig:  So okay. So you’re you’re right. You know, this the the movie opens up this girl, Ashley, who’s played by Olivia DeJeanne. She’s this young actress. She hasn’t done a ton, but, you know, she’s she’s clearly up and coming. Horror fans might recognize her as the older sister from The Visit. Coincidentally enough, the young man who played her younger brother in The Visit is also in this movie. He plays the lead the the kid that you were talking about, Luke. He plays his best friend. His name’s, Ed Oxenbould, I think. Yeah. And the 2 of them starred in that movie together. And I think that this was the very next film that both of them did, so it’s kind of interesting to have had this little journey together. But, anyway, Ashley, we see her driving and she’s talking to her mom on the phone, and we hear through her conversation that they’re going to be moving, in the next couple of days, I think, to Philadelphia or Pittsburgh or something. I it doesn’t make any difference. But she’s doing one last babysitting job for this family that she has clearly babysat for for a long time. And then we, cut to Luke and Garrett, the 2 young men. Like you said, they’re they’re 12. I don’t know. I mean, I guess they’re kind of believably 12. I Yeah. Like, I almost I almost believe that they’re really 12. I do. They’re probably, in real life, more like 14, but they’re young enough. So Luke and Garrett are sitting around at Luke’s house, and they’re, just talking about random stuff. But the notion that we get is that Luke is planning on making his move on his babysitter. She’s, like, twice our age. I really don’t think it’s gonna happen. 5 years, big deal. My parents are 5 years apart.

Todd:  You don’t get

Craig:  it, Luke. Ashley’s a 10. A solid 10

Todd:  and you’re like a, f

Craig:  Love mom. She likes me. I know it. It’s tonight or noon. Okay. Go ahead. Then my brother gave me weed. So instead of trying to bone your babysitter, maybe we could just, you know, puff up. No, man. I’m going through with the plan. I can’t help but maybe spoil some things, but there’s little clues dropped along the way that, set up things later. They just very off handedly have this talk about the scene in Home Alone where the kid uses paint cans to, like, throw them over the banister and and hit the bad guys. And Garrett’s like, oh, it would just happen the way it was in the movie. It would just knock them backwards. And Luke’s like, no. I’m telling you. It would it would totally blow up their head. The first time I watched it, I didn’t even paint I I didn’t even notice that they were talking about it, but, ultimately, it comes up again. So That’s right. It was worth mentioning. And one of the things that I like about this movie is that really those three characters that we’ve mentioned, Ashley, Luke, and Garrett, are are the main characters in the movie. I mean, we get, introduced to some side characters, but the side characters really don’t play all that much of a role. These three characters, in particular, Ashley and Luke, really have to carry the whole movie. And having seen it twice, ultimately, I think that they did a a good job. I mean, that’s that’s a a big responsibility for 2 young actors to carry a feature based almost solely on their performances. And and I I thought they did a pretty good job.

Todd:  The acting is solid in the movie throughout, I think. I I really can’t fault it anywhere. As the babysitter comes to the house, Ashley, she we get to meet Luke’s parents, and Luke’s parents are goofy. He he’s played by what’s that guy’s name?

Craig:  Patrick Warburton. Yeah. The Tick. Yeah. People would know he’s been in a million things. He’s this great big huge guy. He was the tick. He was he also had a big role in Seinfeld. You you’ll totally know who he is when you see him. And the mom is played by Virginia Madsen. It’s not like either of these people. It’s not like I don’t think casting agencies are beating down their doors, but it’s a little bit of stunt casting. You know, these these are famous people. Virginia Madsen has been in just a bazillion things. I mean, she was in Candyman and The Haunting in Connecticut. But and and they’re in the movie so little. You know, they they probably get, I don’t know, 5, maybe 10 minutes of screen time altogether, but they’re fun. You know? The dad is really funny and goofy, and and Virginia Madsen plays the mom as very stiff and and, like, I don’t know. We see the dad, like, looking at the Christmas tree kind of skeptically, and then the mom comes downstairs. And they’re all dressed up because they’re gonna go out to a party. And that’s where they are most of the movie. We don’t see much of them, but the dad’s like, I happen to notice that none of my ornaments are hanging up. And the mom’s like, yeah. We’re not hanging those up this year. And he holds up this ornament that’s the ruby slippers from The Wizard of Oz and

Clip:  You’re sure you’ve never sucked another man’s cock? Not even in college? Not some lost weekend, fishing trip, secret special friend, ever? Not that I can recall. Because honestly, Robert, this is

Todd:  so Metrosexual?

Clip:  That’s not even the word. It’s metro. Metrosexual. A lot

Todd:  of like gay things.

Craig:  And it’s such a silly joke, but

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  It’s it’s funny. The whole movie is

Todd:  setting up this tone at this point. It’s very affable. You know, everybody is just, it’s just easygoing and a laid back tone. You would really think you’re watching just another one of these holiday films where some hijinks are gonna happen.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  And it’s really laid on thick here, and I actually enjoyed that. I thought it was fun. It kinda got me in the mood. If you’re gonna watch a Christmas movie, you might as well watch one, You know? Sure. She ends up giving a lot of instructions to the babysitter. One important thing that she notes is that Luke has been having trouble with sleepwalking, And so she has a sort of bizarre contrived instruction, which is to dangle this pencil wedged kind of between the door Craig and the knob to his door, and it’s done in such a way that you know this is gonna be significant later on.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  And also, she tells him that she needs to feed the babysitter needs to give him the sleeping pill so that he doesn’t sleepwalk, I guess, goes through the night. So there’s that really important element, and and except for that, then the the parents just leave and, go on to their party. That leaves Luke and Ashley in the house. And there’s just some nice back and forth between them, you know? They’re obviously really close. Like you said, it’s very reminiscent of the babysitter where you could tell that these 2 have a great relationship. Right. They talk about how she’s leaving and how much she’s gonna miss him. And the same time, because we have this information that he’s gonna try to make his move, these scenes are really interesting, I think, in that we’re looking for those moments and we’re kind of wondering how what his plan is, right? We’re looking to see his plan unfold, and that’s a really entertaining aspect of it as well. And again, it doesn’t seem like a horror movie right now. And then he pulls out a bottle of wine or champagne and she’s like, what are you doing? You’re not allowed to do that. You’re too young, give it to me. And, anyway, there’s more by play between the 2 of them, and she ends up drinking some as well.

Clip:  Oh, I don’t know.

Todd:  There’s some there’s some unexpected pizza that arrives at the

Craig:  door. Right? Yeah. Like, at one point, she says she’s gonna order some pizza, but then she forgets. But then, it shows up anyway, and and that kind of sets up just all of a sudden weird things start happening.

Todd:  Yeah. These little tense moments.

Craig:  You know, they’re sitting and watching a horror movie and it’s funny if you listen to what’s going on in the horror movie, it’s totally reflective of what’s going on with them. Yeah. Like, oh, there’s somebody outside. There’s somebody at the door, you know, like, it’s it’s totally parallel to what’s going on with them. And ultimately, what happens is there’s somebody outside.

Todd:  And there’s also this aspect where the back door keeps opening.

Clip:  Right.

Craig:  For some reason.

Todd:  And I have to say, like, all of these moments were genuinely tense and terrifying.

Craig:  Yes.

Todd:  I thought this was really well done, and I’m I’m not usually this way, but I was pretty well on the edge of my seat during these these bits. With the jump scares in here, very effective. You don’t really see them coming. They’re not just jump scares, but they’re also sinister. Yeah.

Clip:  Oh, yeah.

Todd:  Really well constructed 10 or 15 minutes of the film right here, I think.

Craig:  Oh, absolutely. I I totally agree. You know, I was on the edge of my seat because it’s one of those things where, you know, we, the audience, can kind of see things that characters don’t see and so, like, they don’t really realize maybe that they’re in peril yet, but we know. And so, yeah, it’s a it’s a tense thing. And so then when when there’s a knock at the door well, I guess we should say meanwhile, she’s been kind of talking back and forth on the phone to her, boyfriend, which has obviously been annoying to Luke. And then there’s a there’s a knock at the door and there’s nobody there. And at some point, she asks for him to toss her her phone, and he does, but he because he’s drunk, apparently, now on champagne, it falls short and it lands in the fish tank, and so they’re kind of cut off. But there’s this knock at the door, and nobody’s there. And, but Luke is, like, no. I’m gonna be brave. I I know Taekwondo. I’m gonna, you know, I’m gonna scare him off or whatever. So he opens the door, and it appears that there’s nobody there, but then all of a sudden somebody tackles him, to the ground and lands on the Todd. And it’s it’s pretty scary. You don’t know who it is. I jumped. Yeah. I did too. Too good. It’s the, you know, this hooded figure, but it turns out it’s Garrett and Garrett’s just kinda messing around. Well, Ashley’s really mad and she’s, like, it’s not funny, you know, We thought you were a bad guy or whatever, and she’s like, what were you doing creeping around in the backyard? And he’s like, I wasn’t in the backyard, And then all of a sudden, they hear a window break upstairs. And so Ashley and I have to say that in this part of the movie, I was like, this girl is a badass babysitter. Like like, she’s she’s awesome. Like, she is just on it. Hey. What’s that for? Luke, where’s your phone? My parents took it.

Todd:  I I have one.

Clip:  Okay. Dial 911. I’m going up there. If I scream, press send and hide. Got it? Okay.

Craig:  You’re awesome. Like, you’re a great babysitter. You deserve that $10 an hour. So so she starts to go upstairs, but then they follow her because they’re scared, and they see that a brick has been thrown through the window. And so, and they try to get online, like, they try to the movie establishes for us that they’re cut off. Like, the phone line is cut. The the wireless connection is down, and so Luke and, Ashley run downstairs. I don’t even really remember why, but the I guess they’re checking the car, like, they’re gonna get out of there and they find out that the tires are all slashed. But anyway, then Garrett comes down holding the brick and it says, if you leave, you die. And then I feel like, you know, they’re they’re hearing other things and Garrett’s like, I’m getting out of here. So he takes off through the back door and he runs and it looks like he trips a wire maybe or something or just maybe that there’s somebody else out there, but he gets shot and he goes down and you see blood spray on the snow, and, Ashley sees all this, and so then she is, like, okay. We we have to get upstairs. We have to hide. We have to hunker down. Does do your parents have a gun? And Luke’s, like, yeah. And in this moment, she’s, like, laying at first, she’s laying on top of him because she, like, tackled him down, but then she’s laying next him, like, they’re laying behind the couch taking cover. And it’s just kind of a sweet moment where she really kinda takes control and is, like, this is what we have to do. And he’s clearly really scared and Yeah. And Craig, like like, it’s really intense. Like, at this moment, I’m, like, this is you know, the best friend has just gotten shot. Like, I totally didn’t see that coming, and, you know, it really seems like they’re in this mortal danger. And I was like like you said, I was very much on the edge of my seat. I had no idea and and this is early, you know, we’re talking like 20 minutes into the movie, So, I had no idea what was coming and and and then the next 10 minutes of the movie turned into this home invasion movie and I thought it was one of the kind of scariest home invasion movies I’ve seen.

Todd:  I know. It was for me too. I don’t know how or why, but maybe it was just the way it was shot, maybe it’s a subject matter, maybe just at this point we’re so invested with these people and it seemed so believable. And also probably because of the fact that I think, you know, home invasion movies, right, there’s sometimes it’s just people are at home and there’s an invasion. Right. Sometime it’s like the purge and there’s like this whole world where people’s homes are getting invaded. Right. And then sometimes it’s there’s something going on, like there’s a family gathering or there’s some kind of reunion, you know, like Right. You’re next.

Clip:  Right.

Todd:  This this movie has your next written all over it, clearly inspired by that film. And in those kind of films where there is some occasion or gathering or what whatever happening, I mean, no matter how you slice it, all you’re really focusing on is there’s gonna be a home invasion. Whereas in this movie, it has set us up to this point. I mean, we know it’s a horror movie. I mean Right.

Clip:  We’ve

Todd:  presumably seen the trailers. We we chose it because it was a horror movie, but our brains have just mentally been engaged in this alternate story essentially of him. I think it’s it’s just it’s it’s clever plotting. I think is what I’m trying to say

Clip:  because we’re so engaged in this story,

Todd:  and our brains are kind of wondering, like, how is he gonna what is his plan? You know, how is he gonna make out with her? What’s going on? Then when the home invasion part comes, I think it just like short circuits us a little bit, and and it just makes it that much more terrifying that our brains have to suddenly leap forward into something they haven’t been preparing for, much like a person in a home that’s being invaded is engaged in some other activity and suddenly is thrust into the situation. I think psychologically that that is what makes this so scary and makes it work so well, you know, thinking about it. There’s only so much you can do. I mean, a house, one house is kind of the same as another house. Right?

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  Or at some point they’re gonna be hiding in the attic or maybe at some point they’re gonna have to hide under a bed or in a closet. I mean, it’s hard to make something completely new. Right. And this movie isn’t that new. You know, it doesn’t have those kind of fresh elements in it, but I think it’s just elevated and heightened because of everything that’s built up before it, everything that’s led us to this point. It’s also kinda funny because they run upstairs and they go into the laundry room, which we had seen earlier, which has this eerie blue light, I guess, from the LEDs on the Yeah. On the laundry thing, but also has the sound, you know, of the clothes still going. And you know how that is, like, even though they know there’s a danger outside, it kind of gets muted by the by the sound. It lulls you into, you know, there’s background noise. It it it’s like having the TV on in a an empty room, you know. It’s psychologically it makes you feel like maybe you’re hiding under the covers, like maybe you’re okay. And then they decide that he’s gonna go get the gun, and he runs to get the gun and comes back, and they somebody pounds on the door, I think. I think they look out into the hallway and they see that there is actually a person in there, clearly a person in there with a mask, kind of hooded mask on his face and a flashlight and a rifle. I mean it’s it’s pretty much in your face somebody’s going through here and it looks very much like an adult, you know, going down the hallway And they decide they’re gonna run up into the attic, which is accessible through the laundry room, which is funny because when they were watching the horror movie, she’s going, don’t go into

Craig:  the attic, you stupid. Oh, why did they

Todd:  ever go

Clip:  to the attic?

Craig:  So they do.

Todd:  They go up into the attic, and I love these Hollywood attics. You know, it’s it’s like another floor of the house. Right. Right? We all had attics as large as the attics that they have in Hollywood. We would just finish them off, and we would add, like,

Clip:  the house.

Todd:  An apartment. Right? Yeah. Exactly. And they have a little bit depth there where they’re hiding, but that gets gets broken up because she’s a spider falls on her and it’s been established earlier that she was afraid of spiders and at one point he even catches a spider and lets it go. And so, all of this has kind of been foreshadowed earlier on.

Craig:  Well, and that’s one of the things, especially watching it the second time, that’s one of the things that I appreciated because I didn’t notice that when they were, watching the horror movie that she was like, don’t go in the attic. That’s so stupid. But then the second time I was watching, I was, like, oh, that’s hilarious because they go in the attic later. And there’s there’s lots of that going on. And that scene that you’re talking about where they’re in the attic and this the spider falls on her, and she almost falls out, like like, she does fall out, like, through the I don’t know what those attic doors are called, those trap doors that come out of the ceiling. She falls out and, like, he catches her and grabs her. And I think that part of the reason that all this is so effective is that the performances, they really first of all, they really seem really scared, and secondly, they really seem concerned about one another. And and so, you know, their relationship, I think, makes their peril even more frightening. Like, you you don’t want anything to happen to them. You know? Like, Yeah. It’s almost like their brother and sister or mother and son or, you know, like, you want them to be okay. And Yeah.

Todd:  And and you then your expectation is that that’s what this movie is about. It’s about how the 2 of them are going to get together not because he wants to bang her. Right. They’re gonna form a closer bond because they’re gonna get through this ordeal together or something.

Craig:  Right. Right.

Todd:  Yeah. So, they come downstairs and oh, that’s the point where he leaves to go get the gun and he leaves her. And I just think there’s some great tension in the scene as well because again these these jump scares that we get are pretty pretty darn effective and one of them is that the laundry Todd. Yeah.

Craig:  There’s just a beep beep and Like, what?

Todd:  I jumped, and she does too. And it’s that the laundry is finished. And then we’re met with silence because now that background noise isn’t in there anymore. Just so clever, you know, how how they they made these moments in these unique ways, in this film. I I just I was very impressed. Anyway, he comes back and he’s got the gun and he decides that they need to make a run for it. So they go run out and into his bedroom and oh no he he’s coming. So they hide in the closet and they look through the slats in the closet, that classic thing, to watch as this guy is looking through the bedroom and she happens to notice. She says, wait a second. Isn’t that your mask that the guy is wearing? And instantly, it clicks for her, and she bursts out of there and yells at the guy who gets startled and says, Garrett, take off that mask. And at that point, Garrett pulls off the mask, and it it turns out to be him.

Craig:  I was legit surprised. I didn’t see it coming. I you know, these types these types of movies, I feel like usually they’re pretty predictable. I usually know what’s going on. I had no idea. I thought we were in for a full blown and that’s why I say I told listeners, I told Todd, if you don’t know anything about this movie, don’t read anything about it because I I think that the surprises are the most fun part, and and I didn’t see this coming. And so she pieces together that they that this was all a prank. We were gonna scare you.

Clip:  Yeah. Well, you did. You scared the shit out of me. Why? Why? Why would you do that?

Craig:  I was gonna go save you, but dipshit here.

Clip:  Luke, your friend is holding a real gun. This is serious. How could you do that?

Craig:  Because you treat me like a child.

Clip:  And what? You were gonna show me how much of a man you were by rescuing me from fake armed robbers? You are a child. I almost broke my neck. What delusional infant thinks that staging a break in is gonna get you to 2nd base?

Craig:  And she storms out, and she’s, like, I’m calling your parents. And he’s following her, and she’s walking towards the stairs, and he’s just saying her name over and over and over again, and finally at the top of the stairs, she turns around and says, what? And he slaps her so hard that it knocks her down the stairs and she is unconscious at the bottom of the stairs, and Garrett comes running out and goes, what did you do? And at this point, I’m still thinking, oh, my Todd. I I can’t believe that just happened, like

Todd:  Like he killed her or something.

Craig:  Right. Right.

Todd:  Accidentally. Yeah. And and I so I

Craig:  still didn’t know where it was going. And so then the next thing that we see is this classic that you get a million times that, you know, the waking up point of view shot where it’s very fuzzy and it’s eyes opening. And there’s music playing, Christmas music playing, and Garrett is, riding around on a scooter and, Ashley looks down and realizes that that she’s taped up to the Craig, and then all of a sudden, Garrett and Luke’s dialogue becomes super crass. I guess maybe some 12 year olds talk like that behind closed doors, but something that you would think more of, like, you know, 15, 16 year old boys, just really crass. And the movie takes this immediate tonal shift. All of a sudden, it becomes something else entirely. Like, whereas before it had been a home invasion movie, now it’s almost something like funny games, and we realize or we come to realize very quickly that Luke is a freaking psychopath, like, just out of his mind Craig. Like, the first time that I watched this movie, I might have been drinking a little bit.

Todd:  Come clean. Come clean.

Craig:  And I thought, you know, I don’t know. I don’t know if I’m buying it because then what we have to accept for the rest of this movie is that this is a 12 year old Patrick Bateman, like, from American Psycho. Like, he’s just an a 100%. I’m not a doctor, so I don’t know the right definitions, but sociopath or psychopath or whatever. Like, he’s just crazy. The first time I watched it, I thought, you know what? I really like this concept, but I’m not sure the kid can pull it off. I’m not sure that this 12 year old or however old he really is in real life can pull off this level of crazy. Watching it the second time, I was a little bit more forgiving and sober.

Todd:  Are you saying that the Drake clouded your

Craig:  And I actually thought for a young actor, especially by contrast with how he was in the first half of the movie, this kid does a pretty darn good job of playing this crazy.

Todd:  He does. I don’t know. I maybe I’ll have to see it a second time to come to a similar conclusion. I was I was willing to go along with it for most of it, and that was a distracting element to me. Maybe it was that way for you for, you know, for your first time through as well. It was distracting that I kind of had to consciously force myself to suspend my disbelief with this guy, and yeah, maybe if I in retrospect looking back on it, I’m sure there were probably clues that were dropped earlier on. We don’t really see him outside of the company of others during the whole setup. Right? We still see him with his friend. We still see him with his parents and stuff. So we don’t ever get a an what what I would like, an objective judgment of his true character. We don’t ever have an opportunity or moment for that. So it’s I guess, you know, you can you can go back and say, yeah. He’s just that manipulative all the time, and he’s always, you know, putting on a mask. So, yeah, I’m willing to I’m willing to lean and say, okay, I’ll go with it. And he more or less pulled it off, and, it didn’t it didn’t harm my ultimate judgement of the movie by the end of it. And I think the the key to that for me is that the other interesting question that naturally arises and continues to be a question through the whole film, how much of this is his friend willing to go along with? How much of this have they discussed in advance? How much of this is how how crazy does his friend, Garrett, really realize this kid is? You know, is he going going to go along with everything that happens? Is he a part of the whole plot up to this point? You know, in the babysitter, for example, just by way of comparison, it’s like all of the other characters in that movie were almost just a psycho as the babysitter was. They were all there with the same purpose. And you’re kind of wondering as this plot goes along, at what point is Garrett gonna break away from what’s going on. And he shows lots of little signs. Again, I think really skillfully written quite honestly. These little signs here and there of where he might be uncomfortable with what’s happening. But for reasons we don’t completely understand, he’s still either willing to write it off or willing to go along with what Luke wants him to do.

Craig:  I I think that what he knew was that they were going to try to scare her, or in that very first scene when they were talking, Luke was reading a magazine. I don’t know if it was Cosmo or I don’t know what it was, but it was, like, you know, ways to win a girl or whatever. And they’re like, watch a horror movie because when girls are scared or or when people are scared, it releases endorphins and, you know, I don’t know. Whatever. But it it seems like, Garrett knew that they were going to try to scare her, but I think that that was it. I think that everything that happens after that was a surprise to him and that he just kinda keeps going along with it, and it seems from the beginning, like, Garrett is kind of the rebellious one, like, he smokes weed and stuff, and the mom even says, you know, when she’s talking to the babysitter, that Garrett’s a bad influence on Luke. Keep an eye on him. But, ultimately, I think that what we’re supposed to understand is that Garrett is just a monkey. Like, he’s, you know, Luke is totally manipulating and using him, and I think that Luke had most of this planned out from the beginning, and and that just slowly gets revealed over time. Like, it seems like these things are happening by accident and by coincidence, but ultimately, it it turns out that this is all going according to Luke’s plan. And there are these little hints dropped here and there, like, one of the first things they’ve got are tied up, one of the first things they do is play truth or dare. And it’s all very sinister. I mean, you’ve gotta watch the movie in order to see the way that the the kid, Luke, the way his character changes. He was so sweet and dewy eyed in the beginning, and then all of a sudden now his his whole affect has entirely changed. And, he’s very slick and snake like. And just even the way that he talks is different. And and, again, the first time I was watching this, I wasn’t sure how well it worked because I felt like he was kind of trying to the actor. And I I give him total credit because he’s a young kid, and this is one of his first big things, and he does a great job. But it it kinda seemed like he was kind of trying to impersonate other crazy characters from movies. Like, I got a lot of Patrick I got a lot of Patrick Bateman from American Psycho. I got a lot of Norman Bates. And, you know, if this kid were drawing inspiration from those characters, kudos. Good job, kid. You know, those are those are good inspirations to draw from. First time around I was, you know, questioning does it really work? But anyway so they they play truth or dare and, you know, Garrett’s like, I dare you to touch your tit. And he’s just you know, again, it’s just kinda highlighting how he’s 12. You know? Yeah. And and and so, in a very creepy and sinister way, Luke does, and he asks Ashley how did that feel and she’s, like, feels like I just got felt up by a little boy. And, like, I I also like her toughness. Yes. There are times when she tries to pacify him and when she tries to rationalize with him, and, she does that in, you know, a subtle way, but there are other times when she’s just full she’s just sick of his bullshit, like Mhmm. This is True. This isn’t cute. It’s not funny. Stop it. Like, you’re 12. I’m your babysitter. Knock it off. And, but he just doesn’t but we we find out that when when when it comes to her turn, she’s like, Luke, truth or dare? And he says truth, and she says, did you ever tell Garrett that you killed his hamster? And I guess that Garrett had or Luke had killed Garrett’s hamster at some point. Yeah. And that causes conflict between the 2 of them, which I think is what she was trying to do, which is smart. But it just we get these little revelations, and then later on, you know, when the the drama is heightened, she says something to him, like, you don’t wanna do this. You know? When when you when Garrett’s hamster died, remember how upset you were, and you came to me and you cried when you told me about it, and he leans in and he says it wasn’t an accident. So we just know that he’s crazy and we know that the stakes are high, and then he’s just got this whole manipulative game going on and all of a sudden, you know, all these new pieces start to fall into play. The the doorbell rings, and who is it?

Todd:  Well, now first, before the doorbell rings, he tells her that he’s he’s going to get her to drink. She’s like, your how your parents are totally gonna find out about this. And he says, nope. You’re not because you’re gonna drink all this stuff, and you’re gonna pass out. And when you wake up, there’s you’re not gonna remember this at all. He’s basically he’s got a roofier. Yeah. And so that is at the at the point where we think, okay. This was his plan. And this is the point at which I think the movie, it keeps sending you these twists, but it also does stretch credibility a little bit because you do get to that point where, like, how much of this would really could possibly be planned out in advance, both people’s reactions and the events that unfold And the timing, right. Yeah. It stretches a little bit of credibility. In any case, at that point the doorbell rings and they go to get it and, they look out and it turns out to be her boyfriend who, yeah, we we more or less like she he wanted to come over but she told him not to, so it’s not completely a big surprise to us that maybe he he ended up dropping by. But Garrett freaks out and he’s like, what am I supposed to do? And immediately, Luke looks extremely concerned. So they, like, flip on the music real loud, he asked Garrett to go out and take care of him. And Garrett goes out there, and the boyfriend manages to get inside, and he’s looking for her. And they tried to kind of hide her in the kitchen and whatnot and, Garrett tells him that she’s upstairs. And so when he goes upstairs, Luke follows behind and basically and through a whole bunch of stuff happens, but Luke ends up hitting him in the head, knocking him out with the baseball bat. And he gets up again, and there’s more tussling. He ends up taking him out with a baseball bat, and I thought when he whacked this guy the second time that this guy was dead. Yeah. And this happens in front of Garrett, and Garrett’s like,

Craig:  what did you just do?

Todd:  But then the next scene is that he’s tied up next to her, and he’s come to again. And so now we have the boyfriend and the girl, and it comes out through their conversation that he texted. Luke texted the boyfriend to tell him to come over from her phone. Right. Which wasn’t, you know, somehow I didn’t quite catch how ducking that in the water didn’t didn’t kill her phone.

Craig:  I don’t know how he did it as quickly as he did, but when he takes it out, he unwraps it like it was wrapped in plastic.

Todd:  Plastic or

Craig:  something. I don’t know I I don’t know how he had the time to wrap it in plastic in the 30 seconds that she was away from it, but whatever. It’s fine. It ends up the 2 of them there. And and there’s lots of talking, but it’s not boring. Like, it’s, it’s tense. You know? He’s he’s toying with them. All the while, everything that keeps happening, everything is a revelation for Garrett. Like, you just get the sense that, yes, Luke is masterminding all of this and Garrett is totally in the dark. He has no idea what’s going on. At one point, Ashley has gotten a piece of glass, and so, like, every once in a while, you see her trying to saw away at her tape. They’ve got the both of them there, and there’s lots of back and forth. At one point, he tells them that he wants to watch them bone, and they’re like, no. And he’s like, I’m just kidding. I’m not a pervert. Like, he no. All just this weird dialogue.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  But eventually I don’t even remember exactly how it happens. There’s stuff with Garrett. Luke at one point tells Garrett to go relax, so Garrett goes and smokes some weed, and that makes Luke mad because then the smell of weed is gonna be in the house. So then he makes, the boyfriend well, I don’t even remember what his name was. Do you? Ricky. Ricky. Yeah. So he makes Ricky take a puff off the joint, and he’s like, it has to be in his system. It’s evidence. And either Garrett or Ash is like, what do you mean in his system? And they drag Ricky out into the parlor, like, where the front door is and the staircase is, and there’s suspense built up to it, like, it takes a while, but, ultimately, just as Ashley kind of frees herself from the chair, she’s still kinda connected to it. Luke, totally Home Alones. Ricky, like, with the paint cans, and it’s nasty. Like It’s really nasty. And I actually kind of appreciate that somebody finally did this. Like

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  Show what would really happen because that movie, I love that movie. You know, it’s a Christmas classic, but that is one of the most masochistic movies in the history of cinema.

Todd:  Any one of those things that happened to those guys in that movie would send you to the hospital if not killed.

Craig:  Oh, right. And to show to show what would really happen, like, the guy I mean, they don’t show it in graphic detail. We just see the aftermath. But, basically, it just implodes his head and, like, the whole room is just splattered in paint and gore, and it’s, oh, it’s horrible. And then you think It is. And you think Ashley’s gonna get away. The kid Luke has now also invited her ex boyfriend over.

Todd:  And at this point, I’m not sure if it’s if we’re supposed to believe that Luke had all this planned out or that Luke is just so clever that as things kind of go wrong, he has a backup. And I think we’re meant to believe that this entire thing at some point is Luke’s plan because too much of it would have to be in place already.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  Like too many of the props would sort of have to be there, you know. It just fits together a little too neatly. It’s not the story of of a guy whose plans get foiled, and so he’s tripping all over himself and making a bigger and bigger mess trying to cover up his tracks. It’s the story of a guy who, in retrospect, we’re supposed to believe had planned all this out. And that leads to a lot of questions, which I think we’ll probably talk about here at the end after we get through the plot. Ashley runs out, and it turns out that that trip wire in the backyard just shot paint pellets Yeah. Or something like from a pellet gun at him. And she falls down, and it turns out the neighbors aren’t even there, so nobody sees him. Luke actually makes an interesting reference here. He says, Oh, the wind guards are not are out for the 2 weeks or whatever. And, I don’t know if you caught this, but I immediately thought because I was thinking of You’re Next the whole time. Adam Wingard’s the director of You’re Next, so it was a clear nod, you know, to that movie. She gets tied up again, but this time with Christmas lights.

Clip:  Yeah.

Todd:  And this Jeremy, you know, comes over. But Luke won’t let Jeremy in the house.

Craig:  You said she wanted to see me. She wants you to apologize. For what? Shh. Don’t wake the neighbors. I could give a She said that you’d know. Fine. Where is she? I’ll apologize. She wants you to write it down.

Todd:  So he writes down something on the paper. Later Todd, we find out that it said, Ashley, I’m really sorry for everything that, that I did. I love you forever. In the meantime, inside there’s a moment here between Garrett and, Ashley. I

Craig:  don’t know why I’m doing this.

Clip:  Because you’re a good person. Okay? And you didn’t know any better, and you didn’t know what he was capable of. Just untie me. Okay? We’ll run across the street and we’ll call the cops.

Craig:  The look will freak out if he finds out you’re gone.

Clip:  He won’t hurt you. Okay? I I won’t let him.

Craig:  He’s my best friend.

Clip:  No. He’s not. Luke doesn’t give a shit about you, Garrett. He uses you. He manipulates you. No friend would put you through tonight.

Todd:  And while that’s happening, after Jeremy has written this note, he’s sitting on a swing. There’s like a swing set in the tree. After he’s written this note, Luke runs up behind him and throws a noose around his neck and hops on a lawnmower, which is attached to the end of a rope. All this is swung over the tree so that he could quickly pull him up, and basically hangs him

Clip:  Mhmm.

Todd:  And makes it look like the guy hung himself by standing on and then kicking himself off of that swing. Right. Basically he’s intending to frame Jeremy for all of this. Yeah. Jeremy got upset, he came over, he killed everybody, and then wrote the suicide note and then hung himself. But at this point, Garrett inside the house has had finally his change of heart which I we were really hoping would happen.

Craig:  There are little moments in here where it’s just really kinda sweet. Garrett’s kinda just this pud character, but then in this moment with Ashley and I think a lot of it is accomplished through kind of extreme close ups on their face.

Todd:  Craig.

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, you feel bad for poor Garrett, and, like, Ricky had already said something to Garrett. Like, why do you hang out with this kid? And he’s like, because he’s my best friend. And Ricky was like, are you sure about that? The performances are so strong that you really kind of feel you feel for these characters. You feel you’re you’re scared for Ashley, but you feel bad for Garrett. Like, this poor kid, like, he didn’t know what he was getting into. You know? This isn’t him. He doesn’t wanna kill people. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so then he, and it’s a sweet moment, and, obviously, she’s trying to manipulate him. You know? Like, she’s trying to be super nice to him, so he’ll let her go. Regardless of that, it’s still kind of a sweet moment when she kind of threw her by her bounds, you know, holds his hand and then he ultimately says, I’m so sorry, you know, that this happened and, he gives her a little kiss on the cheek. And then as he’s untying her, He just gets blown away.

Todd:  I mean, you talk about how dark this movie gets. This this just broke my heart. This is where Luke ends up shooting him. He shoots him once, with the with the shotgun, and he looks pissed off about it. Like, why did you make me have to do this to you? And then he shoots him again and just dead.

Craig:  Well, as as Garrett’s sitting there, like, wide eyed, like, you shot me. Like, I’m dying. And this other kid is just yelling at him, like, I told you you couldn’t touch her. I told you, why did you do that? And Garrett looks at him and starts to say, I want my mom, and Luke just blows his head off, Like and then and then Luke is, like, breathing heavily like he’s upset, and then he just looks at Ashley and says, he was starting to get on my nerves anyway. Like, this kid is such a freaking psycho. But, you know, I think

Todd:  the movie would have been so much better without that line. It’s a line that’s supposed to just dismiss it. Like, this guy can just flip a switch in his head, and this isn’t affecting him. Whereas, I felt like this scene was structured so that he would be affected. Mhmm. There was a real discord there that I’d that scene without that line would have been so much more powerful, and that line just just wants you to throw it all away.

Craig:  I understand what you’re saying, but I have to respectfully disagree because I think that that line just further goes to show that he’s he’s just a total sociopath. Like, he he really ultimately is not concerned with anybody but himself. And

Todd:  Even his even his close friend who he confides in and all that. Yeah. I mean, there are you know, that’s fine.

Craig:  And then another big twist. Okay. So it’s just him and Ashley left, and he sits down next to her and he starts telling her this story about and it’s been established early in the movie that he sleeps with one of those, like, beating heart machines or whatever. So he sits down next to her and puts his head on her shoulder much as he did when they were watching the horror movie. I remember my mom used to tuck me in. I’d hold on to her and never let go. She felt so safe. I just fall asleep. Then she stopped. I don’t know why. And now I don’t sleep well anymore. She says, you were never gonna let me go, were you? And he’s like, nope. And, then she says, I know why your mom stopped rocking you to sleep, and he’s like, why? And she just closes her eyes and won’t answer. Like, she’s just being entirely defiant, and he kind of freaks out. And then he gets up behind her. And, again, I just have to credit this movie for doing things that I just didn’t see coming. He takes his pocket knife out of his, pants and opens it up and stabs her with this pocket knife to the hilt in her neck, and you hear the blood come gushing out and she’s dead. Like

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  Like, what? Yeah. And and, like, earlier in the movie, she had said you’re not gonna get away with this, and he’s like, I’m the Houdini of getting away with things. And, like, he cites all of these things that he had gotten away with. And it’s it’s creepy because kids Yeah. Are like that. You know? They can they can manipulate things, get away with things, but, to think at this point in the movie, I’m like, holy shit, he’s gonna get away with this.

Todd:  This is the point where it hit me. Yeah. He’s got this perfect alibi that he’s been given the sleeping pill, you know. Right. So he could conceivably have slept through the whole thing. All he needs to do is jump into bed.

Craig:  Well, and he sets he sets up the pencil. Right.

Todd:  And he almost doesn’t make it. I mean, there’s a whole real tensing moment here too where that whole pencil deal gets him into another jam where you think that he’s gonna be up and around by the time his parents come in. Right. They’re coming right to the door and he hasn’t You can’t set this pencil from inside the room. It’s really it’s really kind of fun, this this last bit. But he does. He sets the pencil. He gets in there. He lays down, and sure enough, all you hear is his mom coming in and screaming downstairs, and they’ve discovered everything. And the next scene is minutes later, there are police surrounding the house, presumably up and around, and he’s being rocked by his mother against her chest just like he said he missed, you know, when he was a kid. And so it seems like this is gonna be the end of the movie. Suddenly, mother kind of leaves, and we hear, off in the distance, a policeman say, this one’s still alive. They have Ashley out on a stretcher taking her into an ambulance, and he looks down the window at her, and she looks up and sees him up there, and she holds up her middle finger as she’s being put away. And we get just a throwaway light kind of in the background. 1 of the, one of the attendants there says, oh, yeah. She used a piece of duct tape to stop the bleeding. Real smart girl.

Craig:  I thought that ending was so clever. You know, you get that light, how did she survive? Oh, she used a piece of duct tape to stop the bleeding. Clever girl. And then as Luke is looking down from his bedroom window in his, you know, Christmas pajamas and he’s kind of, like, you know, shock on his face, and she just flips him off. Oh my god. I just thought it was genius. Like, my partner and I I I made him watch it with me, and, we both just laughed out Todd, like, yes. That’s hilarious. And then so they they roll a little bit of the credits, and then they cut back to his room and we just see Luke facing the camera saying, mom, I’m worried about Ashley. I think maybe we should go to the hospital, which is great. You know, this it’s not a perfect movie for whatever reason. I don’t know. I I I in talking about it, I I kind of am at a loss for what it is that I think that it’s lacking, but, it’s it’s it’s fun, and there are so many surprises. I think especially if you go into watching it not really knowing much, if anything, about it, that you’re going to enjoy it far more than if you go in already kind of knowing what the twists are going to be, because and and this I kind of feel like this is rare for me. I watch so many horror movies that usually, even when things are clever, I can kind of see them coming, and that’s okay, but there were so many things that happened in this movie that I just really didn’t see coming and they were legitimate surprises and, it was it was a lot of fun. I had a lot of fun watching this movie.

Todd:  I did too. I really enjoyed it. To be quite honest, and I don’t know, it sounds like I’m gushing, but I haven’t really enjoyed watching a horror movie for a while. You know, I mean, not to say I haven’t enjoyed, but I haven’t really been surprised

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah.

Todd:  By a horror movie. I haven’t really been scared or kind of on the edge of my seat like I was with this one. This one really pulled me in many different directions, and I really liked it. There are some things though that, upon further examination, just kind of make the plot fall apart. I think the biggest question I have in my mind is who threw that brick through the window while all of them were inside the house?

Craig:  Okay. Now watching it the second time, I was very cautious in watching about those things because when you first see it, especially in the home invasion part, it seems like there’s several people, like and and, ultimately, it just ends up being Garrett. Well, after they knock Ashley out, you see Luke go around and cleaning stuff up, and he pulls out, like, this, poster board silhouette away from the window. When Jeremy, the second boyfriend, comes, when he’s coming into the backyard, he trips over something, and he’s like, what is that? And then it it shows the hole in the window. I think that was supposed to be some kind of slingshot. Now how they set this how they set this all up and controlled it remotely, I don’t know, but I think that they at least attempted to fill in those holes. They melt they may still be a little bit holy, but I I think they I think they at least tried to tried to, cover those bases.

Todd:  Okay. Well, that fair enough. That’s good. I didn’t catch that part. You know, obviously, the whole fact that so much of everything has to be perfect and so much of the characters’ reactions to things have to be so predictable for all of this to go according to Luke’s plan that that it’s really hard to believe that this would happen.

Craig:  Sure.

Todd:  But I guess my my other bigger question is, I’m still a little unclear as to what Luke’s endgame was. Did he really want to end the night by killing off, his babysitter and all of her boyfriends? Was that I think so.

Craig:  I think so. I think that ultimately he hadn’t planned to kill Garrett. I thought I think that Garrett would’ve would’ve made it through the night had he just done what he was supposed to do, but I do think that he had planned to kill Ricky, Jeremy, and Ashley.

Todd:  So, you know, you saw it a second time. Was there something at at the beginning where was it just that he was so mad that she was leaving or something? Were there hints to

Craig:  I I to

Clip:  that at all?

Craig:  No. I don’t know. I I I think he was just a psychopath and and and legitimately believed that he could get away with it. And they do that whole thing with the gerbil, I think, to just show us that he’s fascinated with killing and capable of killing. I think that was the whole purpose of that. But, yeah, I mean, I I I think that he was murderous in his intent.

Todd:  Yeah. It just makes you wonder, like, what if she had just, you know, made out along with his advances?

Craig:  Yeah. Exactly. Right? Would he have changed? That might have been a different story.

Todd:  Because the whole time I’m watching this, I’m still thinking at the back of my mind, well, he still wants to make out with her, and he’s not taking advantage of, you know, the situations that she’s he’s got her in at all. The the finally, like, the duct tape thing, come on. She was still tied up when Yeah. When he stabbed her in the neck. There’s no way.

Craig:  Oh, well, but but Garrett had started to cut off her stuff.

Todd:  Yeah. But that would mean that she would have to sit there and play dead for as long as he stood there and stared at her after he pulled the knife out and watched the the blood, you know, flow across the floor Yeah. Just for him to leave the room and her to somehow grab some duct tape. I don’t know. That’s that’s Fair fair enough. These little things. Yeah. You know, whatever. I mean, it’s not that important quite honestly because I’m really I was really impressed with the film. And I think also, like, you know, I was really surprised that I enjoyed the film because I’m not really one for these nihilistic sort of terrible people doing horrible things to others kinda movies. Yeah. And this movie really really is one of those. Yeah. You know, I was really mixed about your next, you know, and when the whole time I’m watching this that movie just kinda kept coming up into my mind. But I just think like what you said, I think that’s that somehow there’s just a pathos here that I don’t find in those other movies that gripped me and kept me from hating it like that.

Craig:  Yeah. You

Todd:  still feel gross at the end of it because it’s so dark, but,

Craig:  I don’t know those final moments. I I walked away feeling giddy. Like, the fact that she survived and she just flipped him the bird and his his his plan as as meticulous as it was and as close as he came Todd getting away with it, just the knowledge that he wasn’t Even with Even with

Todd:  the post credits kicker where he’s, like, you know, presumably gonna go to the hospital

Craig:  to take

Todd:  her off, you get this idea, like, she’s been able to be so tough and defy it this far along that you imagine that that’s not probably gonna work

Craig:  for you. Right. Right. Right.

Todd:  Thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend. You can find us on Facebook where you can like our page and have a conversation with us about this movie. You can also let us know any other films you’d like us to see in the future. We’re gonna be doing, at least one more holiday movie next week for our Christmas episode, so please stay tuned for that. Until then, happy holidays and I’m Todd

Craig:  and I’m Craig

Todd:  with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.