Something Wicked This Way Comes (1983)

Episode 100, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Craig, it’s our 100th episode. Our 100th episode. Wow.   Glad we’re just gonna quit after this?

Craig:  Yeah. Call it a day. 

Todd:  100 is such a nice round number. It’s like 100. Wow. Okay. So we’ve made it this long, and we decided to do a movie that I think is kind of special for both you and I. Yeah. Perhaps. At least I think we both remember it from our childhoods.   And this is Something Wicked This Way Comes from 1983. This movie scared me to death as a kid. In fact, I’ll tell you we probably watched this I would imagine it was 1985, maybe 1986 my dad rented this for me. This is one of the first movies that I watched with my dad that I got so scared that I asked him to turn it off. We got to the scene toward the end of the movie and I was so scared and he was letting me stay up extra late to watch the movie because we’d started it late and I was way past my bedtime. He’s like, that’s okay. Well, we can finish the movie. And I said Dad stop stop.   He’s like really? I’m like yes turn off the TV. I’ll go to bed. We’ll finish it in the morning. I must have been in like 1st or second grade. Right. Right? Because this came out in 1983. We were both in kindergarten back then I think ish somewhere around there. But this is interesting in that it’s a Disney movie.   Right. This is one of the first movies I think, that Disney when Disney was trying out different things actually the early eighties weren’t the really good times for Disney. Mhmm. And I know they had Watcher in the Woods, which was a little before this, but that was maybe their first attempt at almost an outright horror type movie. Right. That’s not strictly family fair. And this one I feel like came kind of on the heels of that several years later as another attempt at doing something that’s just a little more, a little broader behind their kind of happy go lucky type films that they were doing, you know, before this. Right.   It does stand out in the era of Disney there as being, unique. And who better to turn to at that time than Ray Bradbury, to pen this kind of this kind of thing. Oh, my gosh. And he did a screenplay   of this   based on his book. 

Craig:  Right. Yeah. And sadly, the movie didn’t do well. It it had all kinds of problems in production and, it ended up not doing well and they just kind of abandoned that line. You know, they they didn’t move forward with it, which is too bad. Because even though you can tell that there were some reshoots and some things that maybe could have been better, I think overall it stands up as a pretty solid movie. And as we were watching it this time, I really forgot. I’ve seen this movie so many times.   And every time I watch it, I’m surprised by how actually really dark they go with it. Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s PG and and, you know, rightfully so. It’s not really violent. There’s there’s little to no swearing. I mean, it’s fairly tame, but it features some dark themes, and and some really scary scenes, like you said. Bradbury, I I actually don’t have the same history with it that you have because I didn’t, see this movie when I was a kid. I don’t know how I missed it.   Really? But I read the book. I read Bradbury’s book when I was in high school. I just picked it up and read it, you know, off the library shelves. And this is one of and I don’t I love horror movies, but I love reading horror too. And this is one of only 2 books that ever really, really scared me. Really? It was This and The Shining. 2 books that, you know, really got a a kind of a visceral reaction out of me. And it wasn’t until I started teaching high school that I found out that there even was a movie.   And I was blown away that it had been around since the early eighties and I’d never seen it. Oh. So I I ordered it off Amazon or something. I got it. And I was super impressed with the cast. I mean like this cast is amazing. 

Todd:  The cast is really good. 

Craig:  You’ve got Jason Robards who, you know, very famous for both stage and screen, playing Charles Holloway, the father of these 2 young boys who the the plot revolves around. And then you’ve got Jonathan Pryce as mister dark. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  Who is the central antagonist. And Jonathan Pryce, I knew from his work on Broadway. He originated the role of the engineer in Miss Saigon. Mhmm. And I was a big fan of that. But this was the first time I’d really seen him on screen. He was also, the male lead, in Evita much much later. 

Todd:  Is that right? 

Craig:  Yeah. He he’s been on stage and in movies forever. And and those 2 guys alone, I mean they’re just, they’re powerhouses of acting, and they only really get one fairly big scene together, but just so much presence, on stage. And then, Diane Ladd is in there. Pam Grier. Pam Grier. Is in there. 

Todd:  So like you said just before we started this movie, oh, by the way, Pam Grier is in this. And I was like, Pam Grier?   And then I thought that, oh, yeah.   She’s the the fortune teller. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. It’s so weird how she plays in this movie. She’s well, she’s isn’t just not Pam Grier. No. At all.   Yeah. And I wouldn’t have recognized her as 

Craig:  a kid. I don’t think I would have recognized her even today had I not looked it up. I mean, she looks she’s much younger. She’s just gorgeous. Yeah. In the movie she plays this really beautiful, gypsy woman, which is actually one of the differences in the book. She’s like this old dust witch is how they describe her. 

Todd:  And she’s 

Craig:  all wrinkly and dusty, and I think her eyes are sewn shut. Different portrayal, but still, I like it a lot. Yeah. And and then, you know, the a couple of little kid actors who I don’t really think did much, before or after playing the two leads of Will and Jim. But I just I love the book, and the movie both. Not just because it’s scary and there’s excellent elements of, fantasy and and supernatural stuff going on, But also, you know, it’s it’s a a coming of age story. It’s a story about a relationship, kind of a strained relationship between a father and a son. It’s it’s a story about, you know, how to deal with getting older and living with, regret and those types of things.   There’s a lot going on in this story. The book is just absolutely beautifully written. You know, it reads almost like poetry. And because Bradbury came to do the screenplay, it really follows the book pretty darn closely. There are a couple of scenes that they tweet, and I think that they tweet those in post. And Bradbury wasn’t particularly happy about it. 

Todd:  Is that right? 

Craig:  Yeah. He ended up saying that, when he saw the finished product of the movie, he ended up saying it’s not a great movie, but it’s perfectly decent. And and some of that was because he wrote the screenplay and they shot it as he wrote it. But when they tested it, it didn’t test well at all. They went back and, they rewrote some of the scenes. They changed the score entirely. They scrapped the original score. 

Todd:  Is that right? 

Craig:  They scrapped the original score entirely, hired on, I think, James Horner to do a new score. We’ll talk as we go through the Todd about a couple of the scenes that were changed. And they they changed them because they didn’t test well, and because they just didn’t have the technology for the effects that they wanted. They tried, they tried really darn hard. One of the scenes that they ended up cutting was actually the first scene in cinematic history, I think, at least based on what I’ve read, to utilize CGI. Oh, really? Right. And, you know, they used it in combination with traditional animation, but it just didn’t test well. And the executives didn’t think that it looked real enough.   They thought it looked hokey. So they went back in and filmed some other scenes. And it’s funny because I don’t think you’d notice if you were just watching it for, you know, casually. But you really can tell what the changed scenes were because it was a year later and these little boys had grown. Like they’re supposed to be 12 years old and they play very realistically 12 years Todd, prepubescent, kinda high voices. Yeah. And in 2 scenes, in particular, which we’ll get to the spider scene and the closing scene with the mirror maze. If you look closely, you can tell that they are noticeably older.   Oh. And and both one of the boys, Jim Nightshade is supposed to have dark hair. And Will, Holloway, the other boy was supposed to have blonde hair. In real life, the actors had opposite, but they but they wanted them for those roles so they dyed their hair. But when they brought them back to shooting these extra scenes, the boys didn’t wanna dye their hair Craig, so they’re in wigs. And you can tell that their voices are are lower. You know, they’ve obviously kinda crossed over that puberty threshold. It’s it’s not distracting enough that many people would even notice.   I didn’t notice. If you’re paying attention, 

Todd:  you can tell. I see. I don’t know all this history. I can’t wait to hear about it from you. Well, you know, this is right in Bradbury’s wheelhouse. One of my Bradbury is one of my all time favorite authors. Yeah. And I also read the book, but I I read the book in high school after having seen the movie.   And one thing about him is he is one of these authors and not are not many of them out there who can adapt their own material for the screen. Yeah. Like, they’re able to do it. They’re able to make that leap and realize that they can’t keep every precious little thing in their book over to the screen. And I remember the book being a lot more expansive. Yeah. And it just kind of again like poetry. And when I was watching this movie also I felt like gosh this movie is like poetry.   It’s a literary kind of plot, you know? Like the plot is secondary to the themes Right. And the ideas and, the characterizations and everything Todd the point where, you know, even watching it this time around, I haven’t seen it for years. And watching it this time around, I was like, wow, this plot, it’s fast. Yeah. Like, it goes by really quickly. And I was a little shocked because in my memory in my head, I thought that the movie was longer, you know, but it’s a nice tight 98 minutes. But there’s so much in there, yeah, that, I think it’s the kind of movie where you think about it long afterwards and it probably plays out in your mind a little slower in in the re in the rethinking of it. 

Craig:  Oh, yeah. And I think especially if you’ve read the book, the book is so well paced too. I mean, there’s a lot of action going on, but you get a lot more insight into the character’s thoughts and emotions, especially, with the dad, Charles Holloway. You know, he’s really going through this internal struggle. He’s older. He feels like he hasn’t accomplished some things in his life that he wanted to. He feels like because he’s older, he can’t really relate to his young son, and and they kind of have some history, that he is struggling with. And I think that it plays really well in the movie, and Jason Robards does a great job, but you just get more of it in the book.   I mean, watch the movie, it’s fantastic. But if you’re a reader, this it’s a great book too. It’s set in, small town Illinois in the 9 early 19 fifties, I believe. 

Todd:  Okay. 

Craig:  And, it’s Green Town, Illinois. And the movie opens up, with these beautiful, like, pastoral shots of the autumn. And it’s just beautiful to look at. It’s some of it was shot in Vermont. Some of it was shot in, the the Walt Disney Studios in Burbank. But and you can tell. I mean, the the stuff in in the city, you know, in the town, it’s clearly a sound scene. 

Todd:  Sound set. Yeah. Yeah. 

Craig:  But it looks good. I mean, it’s very nostalgic and and, it it it’s a really limited set. You can tell, you know, it’s probably just one street. 

Todd:  Yeah. Because that’s all you ever see. Right. Well, and it’s the same way with the characters. You really only see a handful of characters. There’s not a lot for you to keep up with. And I and honestly, like, I guess if you did have a criticism, if they had a few more extras in the background, you know, if they if they had some ancillary characters kinda walking by here and there, it would have felt a little more filled in. But, the the film does a really good job at the beginning, I think, of just taking you through everything you need to know.   Like within the first 10 minutes, you have a strong sense of what’s going on, who all these different characters are that you’re going to meet during the film, and what their particular hang up is. Mhmm. Right? And what their particular desire and dream is. And that’s really the one of the themes that run through this is, unrequited, dreams and desires. And, and and it’s just so skillful in the way that it does that. It almost seems effortless. And even even with a a little bit of voice over at the beginning Yeah. 

Craig:  You know, 

Todd:  lots of times when you gotta resort to voice over in a film, it’s like, oh, really?   Yeah. You   know? But Radbury is so good that it’s just like poetry.   First of all, it was October, a rare month for boys. Full of cold winds, long nights, dark promises. Days get short. The shadows lengthen. The wind warns in such a way you want to run forever through the fields. Because up ahead, 10,000 pumpkins lie waiting to be cut. 

Craig:  It’s it’s funny. I don’t wanna shatter your dreams, but I don’t think he wrote that. He didn’t write that. I I don’t think he did. I think that that’s one of the things that they went back and put in in post. 

Todd:  The voice over at the beginning. I think they they didn’t lift it from the novel though? 

Craig:  I don’t know. Maybe they did, but I I think they actually kind of went behind Bradbury’s back and hired a secondary writer to clean some things up. Interesting.   And I   think that that’s one of the things. But I mean, it fits very well within the tone of the piece. You never know. In fact, I think that it it adds to it. You know, I don’t it doesn’t seem like a detraction at all. And it really just establishes this kind of nostalgic feel. And plus, you know, I know you kinda grew up all over the place, but, you know, this is rural America. You know, this is home to me.   You know, small town America, and it’s really easy to relate to. And that’s another thing about the book that I think is so easy to relate to. Both when I was reading it when I was younger, granted I was older than the boys, but not that much. And you know, I remembered being an adolescent and prepubescent and all that stuff. And they’re really relatable. You know, you you you see yourself in these characters. Mhmm. You know, I don’t know.   I can’t speak for everybody. Maybe young ladies have a different experience. But I think, you know, guys like us can really relate to that. And now, having grown up and gotten older, you start to see things from the dad’s point of view. Yeah. You do. And and, you know, we’re not old yet. We’re getting there.   But, you know, you think about what might have been, what could have been, and, what, you know, you could have done better, how you could have lived a better life. And so there’s just so much humanity to it that it really works, especially since it’s not really that original of an idea. I mean, this is kind of a tale as old as time. You know, being tempted, you know, by the devil or whomever, some evil force, who’s willing to grant you your every desire. But then that comes with a consequence. Yeah. And that’s really the backbone for the whole movie, but you come to care about your central character so much. Even the ancillary characters like the the townspeople, they’re presented not as bad people, just as people who maybe are flawed in some way or maybe have some regret or something.   And you can empathize and and understand why they could be easily tempted, especially if they didn’t know what the consequences were gonna be. And it just plays out so well 

Todd:  on a character level. Yeah. It’s not like a Tales from the Craig scenario where people get what’s coming to them Right. Because they’re they’re they’re bad, you know, or they’re twisted somehow inside. It’s like you said, you relate to these people. They seem happy enough. Right. Right? Well, first you’ve got Will Halloway and Jim Nightshade.   Shea. Jim’s the one with the black hair. Will is the one with the blonde hair. And they’re again, relatable because what is their biggest hang up right now is who’s older. Right. They’re like born on the same day apparently but one was like an hour or 2 over the other one, Jim was. And but yet Jim still wants to be older. He’s the one who, like, really wants to grow up.   And and Will is he even says something hilarious early on. He’s like, well, I I won’t always be younger than you. That was just something a kid would say. Right. So you’ve got them and and that, but they’re just like yin and yang, basically. They’re almost meant, I think, in in kind of a metaphorical sense to be the same person. Absolutely. Right? 

Craig:  I mean, you’ve got the you’ve got the blonde headed light one who’s still clinging to youth and innocence, and then you’ve got the darker one whose name is Nightshade, who who really longs to be older and to have more experience. And you see it in the book, you see it here too, you know, when they have an opportunity to like peep through a hole in the tent at, the exotic dancing girls at this carnival. Will’s not interested, 

Todd:  but Jim is. That’s right. 

Craig:  You know, they’re right there on that cusp Yeah. Between childhood and adolescence. Yeah. 

Todd:  It’s a metaphor for puberty right there. Yeah. Yeah. That moment. And then it’s that magical time. It’s the magical summer that they’ll never forget. Right? That the moment they crossed into manhood or whatever at 12 years Todd. Right? Right before you’re a teen.   Yeah, it’s just really poetic in that way. And then it takes you around Todd, again I think a very skillful way where they’re just they’re running around and it does resort to quite a bit of voiceover. And again, it is a bit of a cheat and I can see maybe, yeah, well, maybe Bradbury wouldn’t wouldn’t have cheated that hard, but I think it works just because of, again, the the language that they use is   so good. The cigar store was owned by mister Tetley, a man obsessed with money. What’s her name, 

Craig:  mister Fricetti? 

Todd:  Mister Korsetti, our barber, cut my hair a 1000 times, always talking about faraway ladies he would never know. I remember Ed the barman, yesterday’s football hero, still haunted by 40 yard runs down the dark fields of his dreams.   The barman who’s lost an arm and a leg somehow, somewhere. 

Craig:  Yeah. I guess military service problem. 

Todd:  That was my guess. Right? But, but he longs for the days when he was a football star and, and much more agile. And then miss Foley, who is the teacher Uh-huh. Who’s played by what’s her name? 

Craig:  I don’t know. I don’t have it written down. I don’t think. 

Todd:  She was in a ton of these Disney movies Yeah. At the time. And, I remember her the most from, Pollyanna. She played pretty much the same character with the same glasses in like every film. But you know, she’s a teacher who’s Todd, but the kids and again, all of this is from the kids’ perspective, right? Like that’s what’s so cool about this movie is it puts you in this kid perspective but as they’re describing her they’re saying, they say I don’t believe it that at one time she was the most beautiful woman in town. Right. You know, like you just can’t believe as a child that adults had these other lives and that they were younger and just like you at this one point. And so she’s sort of pining for her beauty.   And again, all this gets introduced to you like within the first 10 minutes. First as the kids are traipsing through town and you get this voiceover and then again as Will’s father, mister Halloway, comes through town, and has the more adult conversation with everybody. But this is something that I noticed this time around that I hadn’t noticed before, Once again, really funneling you into that kid’s perspective, is that you get the first names of the kids. And there’s only one instance where you ever get a first name on an adult. Really? They’re all mister Halloway, mister Cougar, missus Foley, mister Tetley. Oh, I guess we had Ed. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But he’s young. I mean, he’s a a younger guy. 

Todd:  And everything else is mister, mister, mister, mister, mister. And later on when mister Dark is talking and attempting Jim, that’s the thing he’s saying here, mister Nightshade. He he keeps calling him mister Nightshade. Right. Right? That’s interesting. Right? Because as a kid, everybody’s mister and missus. You don’t know their first names. Right.   Yeah. It’s just a subtle thing, but that’s, I think, again, what makes this movie so brilliant. 

Craig:  Well, or even if you do know their first names, that’s not how you think of them. Yeah. Exactly. You think of them as mister or miss or missus or whatever. Yeah. And and we meet all these characters and just briefly but kind you know, seamlessly. It doesn’t really seem forced. It just seems, you know, like natural exposition kinda getting to know the town. 

Todd:  But it is like the same 5 characters. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Craig:  And and that’s true of the book too. I mean Yeah. That we, you know, we we meet a few characters. We we don’t get You get the sense that this is happening to everybody in town, but, you know, we just kinda get to peek in at, a few of the characters. 

Todd:  Right. 

Craig:  And, also, you know, I think he plays kind of a bigger role, maybe in the beginning of the novel, but there’s this lightning rod salesman, named Tom Fury who comes around and, of course, he’s trying to sell lightning rods, but he also is saying there’s a storm coming. There’s a storm coming, which obviously, you know, metaphor for what’s about to happen, in the town. And, Jim buys, a a lightning rod from him and puts it up on his house. But then, basically, you know, we get some nice interaction between the boys and their parents. Jim’s, father is absent. We don’t really know what happened to him. It just kinda says that he took off and never came back. And so he’s dealing with that.   And then, Will, you know, he he his parents, he seems to get along with his parents well except there’s this divide between him and his dad because of their age difference. And we find out later, mister Holloway refers to it a few times before we get the whole story, but we find out later that a few years ago, sometimes sometime when Will was a smaller child, his dad had taken him fishing or swimming or something in this river, and the current had caught, little Will. But, mister Halloway didn’t know how to swim and couldn’t save his own son. And he just felt absolutely helpless. Fortunately, there was somebody else there. As it turns out, it was Jim’s dad who saved Will. 

Todd:  The town drunk. The town drunk. So it was an insult to injury there. 

Craig:  Exactly. And so he’s feeling all this remorse and it’s causing this tension between them. And that’s kind of important because it it’s it’s their journey. You know? Their journey is they have to kind of find their their connection and their relationship. And by the end, of course, spoiler alert, they do. But then once we’ve been introduced to all those characters, then all of a sudden, you know, there’s these little hints of things. People will casually mention that they kind of hear music off in the distance, or they smell these exotic smells like ladies perfume or whatever. And then I feel like Will and Jim both, you know, they’re walking along the street and separately mister Halloway’s walking along the street, and they find these flyers for, this carnival is coming through, mister Dark’s Pandemonium Carnival and Sideshow, something like that.   And we see this dark mysterious figure kinda walking through the town just not even hanging these flyers off, just throwing them around so they’re blowing around in the breeze. But that piques the interest of the boys and so they sneak out to go see what’s going on. 

Todd:  That’s right. So they sneak out and, there is a a train coming through at night. And actually over the over the opening credits, we saw this long train coming towards us in the dark. And this train comes by and so they they run through this graveyard and it’s it’s as the tracks pass by a graveyard. They’re sitting there hiding in the graves and looking out at this train and it passes by but there’s nobody. There’s like nobody in the Craig, like a passenger car goes by but there’s nobody in there. There’s a car that goes by, it looks like it’s block of glass or of ice that there’s nothing inside of it. Earlier we’d actually seen a scene where a woman was encased in ice.   It’s these visions that people keep getting. It’s very sinister. There’s even even some of the angels in the in the cemetery are starting glowing. They chase after it as it goes by. And as soon as they get to the end of the tracks, boy, the carnival’s just there. Yeah. It’s like it’s been set up instantly. 

Craig:  This was it. This was the scene that they tried to do with the animation in CGI. And it was this whole big deal where the trees, on the skirts of this field, the forest were supposed to morph into the tent, and a spider web was supposed to morph into the ferris wheel. And they shot all this stuff, and I’m sure spent a ton of money on it. And then they just felt like it didn’t look Todd. So we don’t get any of that. The the it just appears kind of out of nowhere, which, you know, is unsettling enough. It is.   And it and it unsettles the boys, and they kinda look around, and and they sneak into one of the training cars, and they don’t see, but we see that there’s this gypsy woman kind of hiding off in the shadows. And, a big tarantula falls, right in front of them. And so they run away scared, but then they’re gonna go back the next day to 

Todd:  check stuff out. And, you know, as a kid, when I watched this, I, it was pretty creepy. And I got this sense that at all times this was done for their benefit. You know, the kids were meant to see this. The kids were meant to sneak in there and the kids are, you know, that just everything was the way it was supposed to be. Like like, this this evil force, these evil beings who are setting up this carnival, like we’re a 100% in control. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  You know, planning and plotting the whole thing. 

Craig:  Sure. Yeah. And, you know, as it turns out, I guess, you know, I think that is. I think that they are trying to kind of lure people in these mystical ways. But the boys, being young and curious as boys are, they come back and eventually see things they’re not supposed to see. And when they come back, you know, it’s it’s daytime.   It’s nothing but a plain, ordinary, old carnival. No. It can’t be. It can’t be ordinary. We just couldn’t see it last night in the dark.   But meanwhile, all these town people that we have seen are there and kind of weird things are happening. Like mister Crizetti, the guy who is fascinated with money all of a sudden wins the carnival lottery, I guess. Yeah. 

Todd:  Mister Tetley. Tetley. Right.   Mhmm. 

Craig:  And, he gets put on after the heat. Not only does he win a $1,000, but he also wins a ticket for the Ferris wheel. Yeah. And we see him, and a cigar. And we see him get on the Ferris wheel with this beautiful woman, and it cuts away and does a couple more things. But then it comes back and we see that when it comes back around, he’s not there anymore. Yeah. We see, miss Foley come out of the mirror maze, and she’s kind of dazed and confused, like she’s been lost in there and she doesn’t know what’s going on.   That plays out more later. We see Ed, the guy who’s missing the arm and the leg win a strong man thing, you know, that you hit the hammer and it rings the bell. He wins that and he gets a ticket to the mirror maze. And when he walks up there, he sees himself reflected restored. You know, his arm and leg restored. And so he wanders in there. The guy was was Crozzetti Crozzetti. Yep.   That one. The one who, you know, was fantasizing about women. He wins a ticket to this exotic dancer show. And the boys watch as he’s in there. And at this point, I felt like for Disney Yeah. In the eighties, this is pretty risky. Risque. It really was.   These I mean, they’re belly dancers, but it’s all lit and red. So it’s not like they’re naked or anything, but they kind of surround mister Cressetti. And then as they are spinning around him and he kind of, you know, you lose sight of him because some of the women are in front of him, but then they keep going and you notice that his clothes are coming off. Yeah.   And, you 

Todd:  know, that was that made a deep impression on me when I was a kid. That did. I didn’t even like completely understand at the time because I was so young, but you know I kind of more or less knew what was going on. That’s clever. You know, that’s a really clever way of actually getting around the censors or whatever. Sure. You know, by making him be the nude one. Uh-huh.   It’s and and the women not be, but it gets exactly the same thing across. Right? 

Craig:  Yeah. Oh, yeah. And and Jim is interested and wants to look, but they get they get chased away. At that point, Will and Jim, go to the carousel which is closed. It’s under a tent and there’s a sign up that says it’s closed. But they go in there and they’re confronted by mister Cougar and mister Dark. Mister Cougar doesn’t play much of a role in the movie. He’s bigger in the, in the book, but he’s mister Dark’s partner.   They catch the boys, they pull him off the carousel, and mister Dark shows them his tattoo on his arm, which moves. It’s, like, illustrated. And I remember that being so cool from the book. And it looked you know, that we don’t see much of it. You see a lot more of it in the book. Yeah. Yeah. But but it looks good.   Well, in   the book, the snip we get. 

Todd:  In the book, mister Dark is kind of like an illustrated man. Kind of like the whole thing is that he’s got tattoos everywhere. Right. In the movie, it’s just he’s got some tattoos when it’s convenient. Sure. Yeah. 

Craig:  On budget, I’m sure. I’m sure. Of course. Of course. You know, the available effects. But it looks pretty cool. Of course, they’re intrigued. 

Todd:  Show’s over, boys. All that’s fit for you to see. Why don’t you come back later for free rides on these exotic animals? See all the fun at the fairground. What do you say? 

Craig:  But they want to see what’s going on behind the scenes. So they they they hide somewhere in the carnival and wait till it’s all shut Todd. And then they go back to the carousel and they over they see Mr. Dark and Mr. Cougar. Mr. Cougar gets on one of the horses and the carousel starts spinning backwards. And the effect, you know, it’s the eighties. 

Todd:  They did 

Craig:  the best that they could. You know 

Todd:  It’s not very good. 

Craig:  It’s it’s not great. You know, it’s a lot with like light and animation that was put in, you know, later, I’m sure. 

Todd:  It doesn’t look terrible. No. It’s fine. 

Craig:  For its time, it’s fine. But, as he spins and spins around backwards, he becomes younger and younger and younger until he’s this young boy. This creepy 

Todd:  this creepy looking little redhead. Damien kinda little redhead. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. And, mister Dark says, alright, you know, it’s time for you to go to work. And he goes off running, and the boys follow him, and they follow him to miss Foley’s house. 

Todd:  And this was really confusing to me as a kid because miss Foley had earlier remarked to the boys, oh, I’m waiting. My nephew’s coming tonight. When they chase this kid to missus Foley’s house, they see that through the shadows of the window that she’s with a boy. And so Jim, real runs up to the door, rings the doorbell amongst Will’s protests. And, she answers the door, oh, my little whisperers because they’ve been punished early. Right. And, she invites them in. I made some cookies.   And it’s interesting because even in this case, you know, at the beginning of the movie, your Will and Jim are obviously like punished like they were whispering in class or something that was a big deal in the forties. Right. Right? And, I I hate to say it but sort of in a modern movie where or at least in another kind of film where people would become stereotypes or cardboard cutouts, this was Todd be the mean teacher. Right? But she lets them in. She’s a normal teacher. Right? She lets them in. She’s like, I made some cookies. Here, come meet my nephew.   And she pulls out mister Cougar as the nephew. And as a kid I thought, what’s the deal? Is she like under some spell or what is is did he does he actually happen to look like her nephew? What’s the deal? And I think now looking at it, my explanation is that her trip through the mirror maze kind of planted this idea in her head that she would have a nephew coming to visit when maybe that she shouldn’t even have a nephew. Right. And that gave mister Cougar the end to go there. Even still, it’s it’s it’s really dubious why mister Cougar needs to be there anyway. Right. What’s he doing? Yeah. Yeah.   All these mystical and magical things can kinda happen without the presence of these people. So, yeah, it’s just kind of a weird part of the movie. Even watching it now, I still don’t doesn’t make a lot of sense. 

Craig:  But it’s creepy. Yeah. It is. And if I remember correctly, it wasn’t really clear in the novel either. Because I I think that she does mention the nephew coming before the carnival even arrives. Oh, is that right? If I remember correctly. I don’t know. But I I I’ve taught this book and that’s a question that students have asked me.   I’m like, I don’t know. Just go with it. But anyway, they, the little boy, the little creepy boy, mister Cougar, kinda sets up Will and Jim by by tossing a a stone through her window. That’s so smart. Yeah. Todd get to get them off his back. And so they run off. Well, there’s another thing I don’t think we mentioned.   And there 

Todd:  are these little scenes between Will and his dad. Yeah. And, there’s one in here somewhere where they talk about it being 3 o’clock the souls of the night when old people die. And these are pretty significant conversations even though they happen in snippet. There’s obviously some tension between Will and his father. His father is obsessed with the fact that he’s old and he’s dying. And I guess that’s tangentially related to his regret over not being able to save his son in the river because he was never taught how to he had a father who never taught him how to swim. Maybe some of it too because he felt like maybe he was a little too old to do it.   I don’t know. But, that all get kinda gets kinda mixed up in there. And Will’s like 

Craig:  I wish you could be happy. 

Todd:  Well, just tell me I’ll live forever and I’ll be happy. 

Craig:  Dad, don’t talk deaf. Someone will hear you. Dad.   And it’s funny because, you know, they’re they’re talking about that river incident. And mister Holloway, you know, it I I think he’s trying to apologize and and say why he’s remorseful. But he says something along the lines of when you reach your twilight years, it’s not what you’ve done, it’s what you didn’t do that you regret. And again, you know, that’s hard. It’s and I think that it plays so well both in the book and the movie where you’ve got this dad who wants to explain himself and wants to explain maybe why he’s a little bit distant. But then you’ve got Will who’s only 12, and it makes him uncomfortable. You you don’t know how to relate to your parents really at 

Todd:  that point. 

Craig:  You don’t know what it’s like to be older. And it’s also funny just the way that we view aging so differently today. You know, this guy’s talking like he’s got one foot in the grave. And he’s just like He’s like in his mid fifties. He would be considered young by many standards today. 

Todd:  Oh my gosh. 

Craig:  But but it’s sweet, and there are those nice moments. I’m glad you brought it up because, you know, I I talked about them a little bit, but they’re peppered throughout. And again, it’s paced really well. So you get some action, and then you it pulls back a little bit, and you get a little bit more of the character work. 

Todd:  And and I’ve just gotta mention one little thing. Like when they’re running away from missus Foley’s house, this is just one of these little touches that that makes this movie so good and tight is that they’re running through the empty street and there’s a really low shot of them of them running past this tree we’ve seen like 10 times, past the barber’s pole. And, as Will runs, he Todd on a grate as he runs by and it makes a clank sound. And, you know, this is again, this is kind of a subtle thing, but watching it today and knowing what’s gonna come later, that there’s a grate that comes. It’s just every little thing in this movie is foreshadowed. You get a little piece of what’s to come introduced to you early on, even that freaking great. Yeah. And, and I was like, man, that like, the director of this film, like, really knew what he was doing.   There’s so much care placed into this. That’s why it’s so tight. 

Craig:  Yeah. It’s really well planned. Yeah. Again, then we we kinda start to see the fate of some of these people, what’s happened to them. Miss Foley is in her house. She’s looking at herself in the mirror. She sees herself reflected back young and beautiful, and she’s thrilled, and and she’s begging, please, please, yes, please. 

Todd:  She asks for it. Right. 

Craig:  She asks for it and then she gets it. But as soon as she gets it, as soon as she is actually transformed, then she goes blind. So it’s like she can’t even appreciate, you know, her own youth and beauty. Yeah. And it’s it’s all it’s all those, kind of things. Jim, kind of well, I don’t even think he says it. He he says something about wanting to go back to the carousel. And Will says   If that darn merry-go-round could make mister Cougar younger, why do you think you’d be older if you got on it and went the other way around? Is that what you figured out in your little mind, Jim Nightshade? You’d be 2 feet taller looking down at me. And you ditch me. 

Todd:  He doesn’t deny it. 

Craig:  No. He doesn’t deny it. And that’s the thing, you know. Again, it’s so relatable because, yes, when you are that age, you are still clinging to some aspects of your childhood, including maybe some of your childhood friends, but you’re so desperate to just grow up. And at one point, mister Dark says, you know, I can show you what it’s like to be a man. I can show you what adults do behind closed doors when kids are asleep. And these are the things that we, you know, we’re getting curious about at 12, 13 years old. Yeah.   And it’s just a really nice dichotomy, between those 2 boys. It’s just it’s just such good storytelling, period. Book, movie, whatever. They end up back at the carnival, and they witness this scene where mister Dark is interrogating a lightning rod salesman who he’s got strapped into an electric chair. Dark desperately wants an estimated time of arrival on when the when the storm is coming. 

Todd:  You know, it’s kinda silly when you break it down.   Yeah. Again, it’s like a thing where   this movie is more poetry than plot.   Yeah.   You just kinda have to go with this. Right? Because, I mean, obviously, a storm is gonna come sometime. We learned later that it’s it’s basically the the MO. The Yeah. You know, this is how these things go.   This is   how these things go. Exactly. So the fact that he’s torturing this lighting rod salesman, asking him for the ETA on the storm is kinda superfluous. Right. Right. 

Craig:  And and I I I I don’t remember honestly, but I think that’s something that’s added in the movie. I don’t I think that the the lightning rod salesman comes and goes in the beginning of the book. But, but we in in addition to seeing what’s happened to him, we also get to see that the other townspeople have kind of become attractions. Like the guy who was the cigar shop owner, now he is a cigar shop in Indiana. Yeah. And and, I don’t remember 

Todd:  is is the bearded woman. Right. Right. Right. Right. 

Craig:  So so and that makes sense. And that’s that’s that’s true to the book too. It’s like what they’re doing. They come and they gather souls, and then they move on. And, you know, then they’ve got all their acts and ready to go. Yeah. But as dark is torturing the lightning rod salesman, Will shouts out and says Todd it. Stop it.   So strike. He’s a little doe eyed. I mean, even the the the actor 

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. Let’s be honest. He’s really young. Let’s let’s just say 

Craig:  that he’s really young. But anyway, so then they’re discovered. And so, they go off running and mister Dark says to the gypsy woman or somebody one of the women. There’s 2 women. I get them mixed up. I can hardly tell them apart. But he says 

Todd:  Those boys, they’ve seen too much. Hunt them down and bring them back to me. 

Craig:  They run home and we see this like ghostly green mist following them. And this was the other big scene that they ended up changing in post because originally, he was supposed to dark was supposed to summon like this big monstrous hand that would reach into the boys’ room and grab them and try to pull them out. Really? Yeah. And they constructed this whole thing, like this big machine hand, but it ended up just looking too hokey. So instead and this is the one where if you pay attention, you can really tell the boys are older. Instead, after they didn’t test well, they went back and they reshot a scene with, spiders. The boys, they’re in their separate bedrooms, but they their houses are close enough that there’s a tree between them and they can kinda go back and forth between their rooms. Yeah.   It’s awesome. You know, what we all wanted when we were kids.   You know,   you see it in movies, hardly ever really happen. Yeah. But then they get beset by all these tarantulas. And, I guess they used over 200 real tarantulas. Now they had fake ones, of course, too to, you know, stick to the wall and and whatnot. But they used all these real tarantulas. And man, those boys at this point, I would guess probably 13, 14, but they’re braver than I am because I wouldn’t wanna be that many around that many spiders. And one of the boys in a panel, you know, probably, I don’t know, Comic Con or something, during interviews said that, this scene was really uncomfortable for them.   Not because they were scared of the spiders, but because there were so many of those real tarantulas that they were covered in those hairs, from the tarantula’s legs. You know, it’s almost like getting in fiber glass or something. Oh, really? Yeah. So they were yeah. So they were just desperately uncomfortable. Gosh. And and it’s not even a great scene. 

Todd:  It’s not. Especially watching it now. I have to say as a kid, I thought it was really pretty scary. But as an adult watching, you’re like, okay. It’s a bunch of spiders in their room. 

Craig:  It replaces, sadly, and and my partner doesn’t like this movie. He likes the book, but he doesn’t like this movie. And this is his biggest problem with it is that this scene replaces what we agree is the scariest scene in the book where the dust witch, comes towards their house in this monstrous hot air balloon. And like is getting closer and closer and closer to them and Jim eventually turns around and shoots the balloon with an arrow and it deflates. And the balloon is kind of presented as inanimate, but then in the book, it’s as though the balloon was actually some sort of living thing that they were utilizing. And the next day, there’s this carnival parade and they realize that not only is it not just a parade, it’s a funeral procession for the balloon and it’s a search party for the boys. Now we still get the the parade and the search party, and it is pretty ominous and scary, and they end up hiding under that grate, that you that you talked about, which which works great in the movie, one of the most intense parts 

Todd:  of the book.   Oh, it’s great. It’s a great great. 

Craig:  Yeah. The greatest great you’ll ever see. It’s one of the tense 

Todd:  most tense parts in the movie Todd. Because, again, the way it’s filmed, you just know at any moment somebody’s gonna stare down into this grate and see these kids. And mister Dark is searching. He’s looking left and he’s looking right. And and again you see mister Cressetti, you see all these people including Tom, Tom Fury who’s up on a in his chair and kind of being carried through. It’s a creepy carnival parade. Throughout this whole thing, actually, Will is warning his father. He says, dad, just be careful.   Something weird is going on. His father feels like something weird is going on Todd. And as he’s going through, he notices that the cigar shop has a sign on it that says, you know, be back later. And a guy comes up to him, I think it was the doctor, comes up to us, look, Ed’s bar is shut down. That that never happens. And they’re like, yeah, that’s weird. They go inside and they see there’s money in the cash register. At that point, mister Dart comes in and has a confrontation with them and says that he’s looking for these 2 boys.   And, Will’s dad just says, I’ve got to go out. He walks outside and there’s this really intense, scene, between him, and mister and and what’s intense about it is they’re standing over the grate where the boys are. So there’s this part of you that’s like, oh my gosh, are they going to be because Will’s father has seen them below. So he’s trying to play it off. And mister Dark is standing right there and he’s interrogating Will’s dad. And he says, these are the boys I’m looking for. And on one hand, he has Will’s, face tattooed. And on the other hand, he has Jim’s face tattooed.   You see, I yes. I know him well. His name’s, Yes? Milton Blomqvist. And, that. Oh, that’s, Avery Johnson. Yeah. Fine voyage. Fine.   Both of them quite a credit to this little town if you want to know the truth. I do want to know the truth, sir. And the truth is that you are lying. You see, I already have their names. I got them from a blind girl. Used to be a teacher hereabouts. Poor creature by the name of Foley. Will is the fairhead and Jim the dark.   Now, tell me, old man, what’s your name? 

Craig:  But at 

Todd:  the same time, the hand that has, Jim’s picture on it, clenches like a fist and blood comes out of it, and it drops down on Will’s face. So there’s this other part of you that’s thinking, this guy knows that they’re down there. 

Craig:  Yeah. I don’t know. I always wondered that. 

Todd:  I wonder it Todd, but, you know, there’s there’s again, there’s something poetic too here about the Jim’s blood being on Will’s head, and you’re just waiting to see what’s gonna happen. And he ends up walking away. 

Craig:  Well, and I think that it’s it’s such a great part of the movie and such a great part of the book because you I don’t know if you expect it, but in the real world, one would possibly expect a grown up, not necessarily to rat out the kids, but to say get out of there. You know, like Yeah. Not really understand the threat and the danger and think that they were just exaggerating it or something. But that mister Holloway trusts his son and and knows that if he’s frightened that there’s there’s gotta be good reason for it. 

Todd:  And you know, it’s interesting because the kind of relationship that he does have with his son seems to be more likely when the father is that much older. Yeah. Maybe. And again, his play is super old. He’s only in his fifties. He projects an air of, knowing the world Yeah. And having and having experience and stuff. And and his son also has a kind of maturity.   It’s a Todd, starkly as compared to Jim as a matter of fact, the kind of maturity the son has. Will is is clearly, even though he’s younger by, an hour, he’s clearly the more mature one. It’s an interesting dichotomy really when you think about it that the one who’s slightly younger who’s not eager to grow up happens to be the more rational, mature one, than the other one who’s older and eager to eat or eager to get there. Right? Right. 

Craig:  I 

Todd:  don’t know. It’s a really odd mix. 

Craig:  Well, and it it carries into the next scene because, there’s a really touching moment where, mister Holloway, pretends to drop it or he drops his cigar, and and bends down and and kind of caresses his son’s fingers through the Craig. And he just says, come to the library later. And we cut immediately to that scene. Like Yeah. End of the day Don’t 

Todd:  waste no time. 

Craig:  Right. And the boys are there. Will says something like, I didn’t think you would believe us. And he said, why not? And he says, because we’re kids. And the dad says, that’s why I believe you. Apparently, in the course of the last 45 seconds, mister Holloway has done research into the town history and has found that this has happened before. In fact, it’s happened multiple times, always in the autumn, always with long periods of years between. But there are records of these people showing up and people disappearing and and, you know, crops failing, you know, all kinds of miseries falling on this town every so often. 

Todd:  Yeah. And the record is his his own father’s diary. Right. Right? And they allude to his father earlier when we talk about him. They don’t say outright at that earlier time that he’s a preacher, but he talks about, oh, my dad my dad had devils for breakfast, lunch. We we had devils for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Mhmm. But when you know, as an adult you can read into that, okay, he’s a preacher.   And I think it’s significant. I think it’s kind of interesting that his father was a minister and that he is the town librarian. It’s sort of this lineage of as the town librarian, he’s sort of like the keeper of the town 

Craig:  records. Right? 

Todd:  He’s like the keeper of the town’s knowledge. And his father being a minister in an earlier time would have would have served a similar role, You know? And that everybody would have gone to him for information and for help and for for all that. So it’s like this lineage that passes down through them. In a way, it’s it’s a little mythical. Right? That they’re they’re destined to be the ones to confront this evil time and time again. Right. Because they’re like the head. Yeah. 

Craig:  Yeah. And so, you know, we get this it’s it’s a little late in the movie for exposition, I guess, back story, about about these folks. And, they they they’re referred to as the autumn people because they always show up in the autumn. But then immediately mister Dark shows up. They kinda, you know, they just kinda hear something and they realize that it’s him. And so the boy is high. And then there’s this scene between Jason Robards and, what’s the other Jonathan Price. And wow.   I mean, these 2 guys on screen together. I mean, it’s just It’s electric. Yeah. Yeah. It’s And it’s fantastic. And dark, Jonathan Price is really he’s an intense guy. And, he does but he does also a really good job of having an intensity and remaining calm at the same time. 

Todd:  Confident. Yeah. 

Craig:  Mhmm. And he tries to first, he tries to tempt tempt Jim out of hiding. Jim, you know, you can be my partner. I can I can make you a grown up? You can do everything you always wanted to do. You’ll know everything grown ups know. And it doesn’t work. So then, he starts trying to tempt mister Holloway saying, I can make you young again. I can make you a man of 30 in the prime of your youth.   You know, I can and and it’s it’s kind of, an auctioneer kind of thing where he’s ripping these pages out of these books like, here, I’m given the opportunity at 30. Going, going, gone. And he rips the page out of the book and throws it down. 

Todd:  At 31, you’re still young. There’s still plenty of years left. Still time to learn how to swim. Black. He’s really digging the knife in. But my favorite part is when he gets to 40.   40. 40. And here, you’re old.   Yeah. I’m like, wait a minute.   I’m gonna be 40 next year. Don’t tell me this   BS. No. No. Gotcha. 

Craig:  And it’s and it’s funny. And it’s it doesn’t work, but at the same time, you can still kind of see the longing on mister Holloway’s face. Like, he’s you know he’s not gonna take the deal. He knows he’s not gonna take the deal. But the idea of it pains him. It Oh, man. 

Todd:  The idea of turning it down pains him. Right? Uh-huh. And he’s sweating. And at this point in the in the the soundtrack too, we’re getting that very subtly, this heart beating. You know, it’s it’s really well crafted in that way. If you’re listening, you can kind of you can hear it. And then later on, it gets louder and louder. But, this was the scene that scared me so much as a kid that by the time he’s fallen down, mister Dart grabs his hand and says, here’s a taste of death so that you can recognize it when it comes again.   And he squeezes his hand and Crushes it. Crushes it. Yeah. There’s like a split second where it splits open. Kind of this gross but but really impressionable scene. I mean, I remember that as a kid Todd. But just on the PG realm. Right? Yeah.   So he falls down and he finds the kids and he’s going through, are you under a for adventure? Yeah. B for boys? He ends up finding them. And the moment he comes up behind them and grabs them and tears them down, I said to my dad, turn this off. Turn this off. I’m going to bed. We’ll finish this tomorrow. Oh, it is It was too much fun. 

Craig:  It is intense because it feels a little bit hopeless. You know, it almost feels like the dad, mister Holloway, has kinda been defeated. Yeah.   You know,   he’s still around, but he’s been taken down and he’s helpless, at this point. And and the bad guys have the boys and they’re taking them off to the carnival. And it’s scary in the movie. Oh, it’s so scary in the book too, but he’s talking to them and he’s still talking Jim up, but he’s trying to scare Will. At one point, he told Will, we’ve already got your mom. We took her and put her on the carousel and spun her forwards and backwards and forwards and backwards until she totally lost her mind. Then Will happens to see her out the window and he says, oh, maybe it was Jim’s mom. So you know he’s just bullshitting.   Right? But he’s he wants to terrify this kid. And the part one of the parts that scared me the most reading the book, and it just goes by so quickly here, is he he says to Jim, maybe we’ll put Will on the carousel and spin him backwards and backwards and backwards until he’s a little tiny baby and he can be a play thing for our friend here. And it’s this little demented dwarf. And I just think I remember reading that as a teenager just thinking what you know, that’s one of the most nightmarish things you can imagine being a baby but with the mind of an adult and just being the or an adolescent, whatever, and being a play thing for this demented twisted little creature. Still gives me the willies. But anyway, they end up back at, the carnival, and this is where the the big showdown goes down. And I have to say, the climax is a little bit disappointing, a little bit. And it goes by really quickly, and I don’t even know what they originally shot.   Most of the big stuff goes down in the mirror maze, which again, they shot in post. So I don’t know what that replaced.   Mhmm.   But frankly, the ending of the movie is a little bit more satisfying than the end of the book. 

Todd:  Yes. Yes. 

Craig:  But, go ahead and tell him what happened. 

Todd:  Wraps it up. It’s it’s it’s, it’s all you know, and again, if you really try to follow it point by point, it doesn’t actually make a lot of sense. You have to see it as more again poetry and just the theme and idea of what’s happening. But, Will’s dad comes into the carnival and the boys and mister Dark has taken them in and, he’s being welcomed by the dwarf into the mirror maze. He goes into the mirror maze and then we get lots of exposition. And this is where it really hammers you over the head with the themes, you know, as if you didn’t figure it out already. Where mister Dark shows in the different mirrors.   Here the mirror of dreams of beauty. Can Cressette tell you of incredible loves he’d never lived? Over here. See the mirror of riches beyond wishing where mister Tetley is buried.   And this is your mirror. Right. Right. The mirror of regret. And, it plays out the scene in front of him of the drowning in the pool. But at the same time now, it seems like Will is in the mirror maze. Yeah. And so he’s bouncing around.   He’s calling out for his dad. And, then the woman, the gypsy woman is in there too. And as Will’s dad kind of comes to his knees in front of this scene and the woman is is is over his shoulder, like, 

Craig:  he like, she’s finally pointing him Right. 

Todd:  Under her spell, Will screams out, I love you. I love you. And and that’s enough. Yep. That’s it. That’s enough for dad so that he gets the courage to break through and no longer feel that regret. He bursts his hand through the the glass, pulls him out, pulls him to him, and then all the mirrors just shatter everywhere. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  And the woman herself who is kind of glassy, kind of icy, mirrory or whatever kind of shatters and and and is taken up. 

Craig:  Yeah. Tom Fury 

Todd:  comes in. Tom Fury comes in. That’s right. Out of nowhere. 

Craig:  Hit the lightning rod 

Todd:  and stabs 

Craig:  her and she explodes. 

Todd:  That’s right. 

Craig:  And then we cut to the the, carousel where mister Dark is standing with Jim and promising him all these things, you know, let’s get on the carousel. And they do step onto it. And, but but Will and and the dad show up and they kinda chase and the dad grabs him and pulls him off. Pretty easily. Pretty easily. And this was a bigger deal in the book because in the book, it really makes a point of Jim wants to get on there and like has to be torn off. And they don’t get him torn off before he’s gone around once. So at the end of the book, he’s a year older Mhmm.   Than than Will. And so he really has made that transition into adolescence, teen years. And so there’s kind of a distance between them at that point. But what happens here in the movie is the storm arrives and, lightning strikes and it strikes the carousel and it malfunctions and starts spinning and spinning and spinning and mister Dark is on it. And there’s really some cool shots where it’s like flashing between the carousel horses and then what would have been carousel horses, you know, live ponies, way back in the day. And pandemonium and the circus, everybody’s running around. It looks like the spell has been broken on the townspeople and they’re kind of running around. While all this is going on, Jim is on the ground and he is apparently dead.   And Will starts to Craig, and his dad very sternly yells at him and says, don’t. This is what they want. They thrive on tears. They thrive on pain. This is how we’ll get Jim back. And they start 

Todd:  dancing. Look, I’m a great whooping Craig. Oh, boy. That’s embarrassing. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. I wanna talk about the end of the book in just a second Todd. It’s even not it’s not even as exciting as that. But mister dark gets spun around so many times that he is just, you know, a mummy basically. The dwarf comes and collects his remains and takes them off. And then the whole carnival gets sucked up in this big cyclone and it’s over. It cuts to the next day.   It’s a beautiful autumn day. Mister Hallowell and the boys are running through the field. They run into town. You know, you get the idea that the dad has kind of recaptured his youth, realized he’s not so young or old after all, that he can have these connections with his son. And it’s it’s a happy ending. And and we get more narration, you know, kind of to wrap it up. And it’s sweet. It’s a little hokey but it’s sweet.   It really reminds me a lot of the, book and the narration in Stand by Me which is a great movie and makes really good effective use of that. It doesn’t bother me. In the book, mister Dark turns himself into a young child to try to trick them into doing something. I don’t know what, or to get him off his back or whatever. But the dad realizes that it’s a trick, and so he grabs young boy mister Dark and hugs him Todd death. Like, not squeezes him to death, but, like, the power of his love Of 

Todd:  his love. Right, kills mister dark. 

Craig:  Oh, my lord. So I I can’t, you know, I can’t blame the movie for being 

Todd:  a little hokey at the end of 

Craig:  the I mean, it’s sweet. You get it. It’s supposed to be nostalgic. It’s supposed to be this statement about the power of goodness and the power of love. It’s just a little 

Todd:  Well, Ed Bradford could get a little sappy at times. Definitely. I and and, you know, it all begs the question of, and again watching it as a kid, I was like, yay. They they won. They finally defeated him. As an adult, you watch and you go, well, this storm is coming anyway. Right. So, like, one way or another, they they were goners in a few hours whether or not they had them.   You’re also asking yourself the question again, if you’re just purely concerned about plot, why is mister Dark really bothering what these 2 kids Right. So intently? Like, what harm what threat do they really possibly hold to what they’re doing? And then of course at the end they get sucked up as we learn happens every time. Right. So, yeah, mister dark some mummy and all that but they’re probably gonna come back again Right. You know, later. Which there’s, again, nothing wrong with that. But, but again, you can’t really see this movie that way. You’ve really gotta watch it like you would read the book, which is, again, it’s a statement.   It’s, it’s it’s literature and it and it’s more concerned about the themes and the characters than it really is about, like, the specifics of the plot having a holes in it. 

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, and it’s it’s sweet and it is something that you could watch with your kids. You know, kids have different levels of sensitivity. You know, it’s some kids are gonna be really scared at parts of it. Some kids are probably gonna think it’s lame. But I think I would watch it with with kids, my niece and nephew or whatever, if they wanted to watch it. It’s just kind of an interesting story. You know, the the the story itself started out as a screenplay.   It was supposed to be Gene Kelly’s first directorial, platform. And Gene Kelly was big time on board, but they couldn’t get the financers. It didn’t happen, so then he turned it into a novel. Then they, somebody bought the rights for a movie and they hired Stephen King to write a screenplay, which he did and it got rejected. Steven Spielberg was in talks to direct it, but that fell through. So eventually, Bradbury adapted it himself. He was really pleased with how it turned out, but the studio wasn’t, and so they changed it. You know, it went through so many incarnations.   Ultimately, while it’s not a perfect movie, I still I just find it a lot of fun. Yes. It’s really sweet. It’s fun to watch. It’s pretty to look at. There’s good stuff going on. I give it a big thumbs up. And Jack Clayton, 

Todd:  the director, had some previous experience with Bradbury. But the the other I think the only one of the only other 2 screenplays that Bradbury had written up to this point. He did like like the beast from 500 Fathoms or something like that. Then before that he also did the adaptation of Moby Dick, 

Craig:  which 

Todd:  was turned in. And that was directed by Jack Clayton as well. So it was pairing those 2 back up together for this movie and I and I think it really works. 

Craig:  Well, and Clayton clearly is a skilled director. You know, he did Moby Dick. He also directed the 1974 version of Great Gatsby, which was a huge success and still holds up today. 

Todd:  The innocence. Have you seen that? No. Right? No. Because that’s an older black and white horror movie that we should watch sometimes that you’re gonna hate until you see   it. Yeah.   Yeah. From 1961. And that’s a creepy kid, you know, creepy child movie as well. That’s really good.   We’ll put it on the list.   I’m with you the same way. I feel I feel just as good about this movie as I did when I was a kid. Even watching it through an adult’s eyes and realizing some of these things. It just I hate to sound like like it’s the perfect movie. No. It’s just really well constructed. It’s very tight. It’s great to watch.   Anybody could watch it with you. I’m really quite shocked that, your partner doesn’t like it because, because who wouldn’t love it? 

Craig:  Yeah. Right. Yeah. He’s probably just being difficult. No. But, yeah. But, I mean, before we sign out of our 100th episode extravaganza 100? I just wanna say, I don’t know if you can tell from the recording quality, but, Todd and I actually got to sit and do this face to face for the first time in so long. 

Todd:  Oh, my gosh. He’s here on a 

Craig:  visit and, he picked this movie. This is something we had talked about doing a long time because it is, one of our favorites for various reasons. And so, buddy, it was nice hanging out with you face to face. It sure was, wasn’t it? I I I hope, it’s not too awfully long before we get to do it again. You know what? 

Todd:  The 200th episode, I’ll be right back. Alright. Perfect. Well, thank you very much for listening as always. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend. You can find us on Itunes, on Stitcher, on Google Play, anywhere that your favorite podcasts are posted. You can also find us on Facebook. Like us there.   When you’re part of the conversation, let us know what you thought about this movie. And, of course, we always love your request. So send us those also. Until the next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.