It (1990) – Part 2

Episode 95, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast.

Craig:  Hello, and welcome to another episode with Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig.

Todd: And I’m Todd.

Craig: And here we are with our second part of our 2 week episode over Stephen King’s It, the miniseries from 1990. Todd, I feel like there’s good news and bad news this week. The good news is I kinda doubt that we’re gonna talk about this movie for an hour and 20 minutes. The bad news is because it kinda sucks. 

Todd:  Yeah. Oh, 

Craig:  man. I hate it. I hate to, be too critical because I really do have very, very fond movies of this memory or of this movie. I don’t remember if I said it last week. I may have, but this was kind of my go to sick day movie. When I was a kid, anytime I was home sick from school, I would always pop this in. And as I was watching the second half, yesterday, I realized that it it really probably was a perfect sick day movie because I could watch the first half and really enjoy it and then just kind of sleep through the second half. Because in all honesty, the second half is pretty darn boring.   Nothing much really happens, until the last 10 minutes or so. You know, some stuff happens and there’s some good stuff in there. It’s it’s not bad. It’s not terrible, but, it’s pretty slow paced and, until you get to the end. And then frankly, the ending’s, a pretty big letdown. And I think that everybody agrees about that. Even the actors and filmmakers realized that the ending just didn’t work the way they wanted it to. And I think that it was because of budget constraints.   This was a made for TV movie, and the fact that the ending of the book really is is so cerebral and and kinda out there that it’s it’s really just difficult to translate to film in general. And what they ended up with, they man, they gave it the old college try. But, in the end, I was left feeling a little disappointed. What’d you think? 

Todd:  Now I have to say, of the 2, sections, I actually thought that the second section was stronger. I don’t mean that it was good. I just mean that I felt like, there were aspects of it that I enjoyed more than the first half. Now I’m not saying that I didn’t think it was boring. I didn’t say I’m not saying I didn’t think it. Everything you said is true. Let me just put it that way. It didn’t really move.   There wasn’t a lot going on, and we still had more of that Pennywise popping in, but not really do anything doing anything to them 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. Situation. 

Todd:  And when you’ve sat through, you know, an hour and a half of that before, to then be hit with it for another hour and 20 minutes just for the grand finale at the end, it gets really tedious. But what I did like about this, and maybe it’s just because I’ve read the book more recently and so Mhmm. Maybe my glasses are a little colored by, the fact that I was enjoying some of the aspects that they drew out in the film from the book. And that is that I felt like since they got all of the necessary stuff out of the way from the beginning, introducing us to the characters, giving us a little bit of their backstory, this second half had the luxury of pacing, in that it could take a little more time with some of these scenes, and I thought it was a little more artful in a way. It still took us to flashbacks Todd to fill in a little bit more of their childhood and some of these other memories that the kids had that weren’t directly related to it or weren’t, directly related to their final battle with It. And to get the characters a little more fleshed out was nice. Sure. And I also liked some of the the things that they did with them coming back into town.   I thought that their encounters with It again in the town were kind of fun. But, honestly, here’s the problem, and I think you just laid it out, is at the beginning of the movie, you get this lead up to this grand battle. We’ve gotta defeat this it. And then at the end of that, they think they’ve defeated it, but we know that they haven’t. Right. 

Craig:  So the 

Todd:  whole purpose is they’ve gotta come back and fight it. So you’ve really kinda blown your load right there. Right? Like 

Craig:  Yeah. Come 

Todd:  back. Now let’s get to the fight, but we don’t get that right away. Right? We get all of this, exploring the town, having a bunch of discussion. Are we gonna fight it? Aren’t we gonna fight it? Gearing ourselves up to fight it, but not even in a very exciting way. So that, yeah, you just have to sit through, you know, if you’re watching on TV with commercials, almost 2 hours of all of this back and forth before what you were expecting, which is get down there and fight the monster already. 

Craig:  Yeah. And and you’ve got some pretty strong actors there. I mean, these are people who were not hugely famous. They weren’t huge names, but they were, at the time, very, very familiar faces. You know, Richard Thomas is Bill, as I mentioned from, he was from the the Waltons. Annette O’Toole is Beverly, who I remember when I was younger, kinda having a crush on. I don’t know. She just seemed pretty cool.   This time around, I I ran a little bit colder with her. I I’m I’m not sure exactly why. You know, John Ritter, famous for 3’s Company and and lots of other TV stuff. Harry Anderson as Richie. Harry Anderson was the the judge, the main judge on night court. He’s doing his best to really be the funny guy in in this in this half of the movie. That’s a good way of putting it. That’s a good way of I I I think, you know, his his comedy was a lot more fresh in the eighties nineties than it reads today.   They’re trying. And and Richard Mazer as Stan, again, another familiar face. He was in My Girl. He was in 30 something. He was, in the thing. And and so yeah. Lots of you know, these people were very recognizable, but, ultimately, watching it again this time, I just kinda got the impression that, I don’t know. You know, TV movies were kind of a big deal.   We talked about this last week. TV movies were kind of a big deal when we were when we were younger. You know, they were events. They were highly publicized. Big name people or or at least reasonably big name people would sign on to these things. I watching it again yesterday, and and maybe it was just my state of mind yesterday, I don’t know. But, it it kinda seemed like maybe they were in it for the check. There are parts of this installment where I really appreciated, you know, the camaraderie.   You know, there’s and and we’ll we’ll run down the plot here in a second, but when they actually all get together for the first time after having not seen each other in almost 30 years, it was kinda nice. You know, you got the sense of these people reuniting after a long period of time and and reestablishing their friendship and their camaraderie, and there are some good moments there. And the book is so long, and there’s so much detail in it, and it seemed like whereas in the first episode, they were trying to cram so much in and it was really, really fast paced. In this installment, it almost feels like they were kind of trying to stretch a little bit to get to the 2 hours or hour and a half or or whatever it is. You know, as far as plot is concerned, not a lot happens. Basically, you can break down the plot as Mike has figured out that it is back. He calls everybody, which we’ve already covered in the first installment, and then everybody comes back. They get together, they have dinner, and then they go into the battle again.   And I I mean, that’s that’s basically it. And so, I don’t know, I it just it felt a little bit like padding, for for much of it, for me. 

Todd:  A lot of it also seemed like again, it’s just rehashing the same formula. Like we talked about in the first movie, in the first half, we we actually were pretty complimentary about the fact that they simplified things for the TV show, That they just made Pennywise the guy, and so everybody would see Pennywise. And then by the end of it, they all realized that they all saw Pennywise, and that’s what brought them together. That’s what they had in common, and that’s how they realized something was wrong with the town. In this one, it’s the same thing again. 

Craig:  Yeah. It really is. 

Todd:  Bill is the first one who comes into town. He visits his brother’s Craig. And what does he do? He sees Pennywise. There he’s there digging a grave. Again, he’s not attacking him or anything. He’s just trying to scare him. And Bill’s getting his stutter back, but even that comes and goes when it’s convenient. Yeah.   Then Bill meets Mike at the library, and they talk. And then Ritchie comes, and he sees on the theater marquee, our, you know, rest in peace, Richie Tozier. And then he goes to the library, and Mike is not there because he’s left, and he has an encounter with Pennywise. Bill and Mike have this moment with Silver, and and that was, that was interesting. In the book, my of course, there’s a lot of stuff that happens, but Bill actually finds silver in like a pawnshop, silver being his bike. His bike. Right. Which has a bigger role to play in the book, but it was nice to see them, kind of introduce it in the second half and then give you enough flashbacks to realize, oh, yeah, that was an important thing too.   And so Mike has had it and he says 

Clip:  Yep. I ran across in the pawn shop about a year ago. I don’t know. Something made me buy. It’s got a flat tie, but that’s all that’s wrong with it. But here’s the real kicker. I bought this tube repair kit with Impulse about 3 months before I saw this bike, there was some kind of force guiding us that summer. I don’t know if it came just to help us or if we created it, but maybe maybe it’s still here. 

Todd:  That is a big part of the book. Right. A little bit more or less so in the movie, but the big part of the book is there’s this sense of faith. There’s this other force. It’s a good force. It’s it’s the turtle. 

Craig:  It is the turtle. I do like you know, I like the idea of that. Like you said, it’s fleshed out much more in the book, and it would be difficult really because it’s just so conceptual. But, the the fact that they at least acknowledge it in the movie is nice Todd know that, whereas you’ve got this evil force on one side that there’s also kind of some counterbalance, with something good working in their favor. And and it’s I I did appreciate that they included that, but, I mean, like I said, you know, so much of it feels like padding. Like, there’s literally, like, a music montage where Mike and Bill play on the bike. We’re like, 2 minutes. It’s forced, isn’t it? I mean, it’s cute, I guess, kind of in its own way, These 2 grown men.   And like, it goes back and forth between, you know, the 2 grown men playing on this bike and doing goofy things and giving each other rides and, like, riding over a seesaw and all and it cuts back and forth to when they, you know, were kids and they were playing on the bike. I get what they were doing, they were trying to re establish the connection. Because another thing that every time somebody comes back, they make a point of how they don’t remember. This this major event that happened in their life with Pennywise, something has caused them to almost completely forget it. And it’s only when they get back in town that the memories start flooding back. And those memories, manifest in flashbacks. And the flashbacks are appreciated and some of them are new, Some of them are things that we didn’t see in the movie, but I would say maybe half of them are things that we already saw in the first movie. I guess, if you watched the first movie and then there was a week where you had to wait for the second movie, maybe it would be nice to have kind of those callbacks.   But if you were to sit and watch the thing all the way through, to me, it just felt a little bit redundant. Like Yeah. Yeah. I I remember. I saw that. I saw that the first time around, but thanks for reminding me. It’s really formulaic. And and just like you said, it’s just we see everybody come back.   And what happens to everybody when they come back? There’s the whole bike thing with Mike and Bill, and then, Richie in the library, and and every time, you know, Pennywise appears, each one of them individually, and like you said, he’s not doing anything, but he’s trying to scare them, and and he keeps warning them, leave. Leave now. This is your last chance. You’ve gotta go. And and this is played up more in the book too. It the reason that he’s not doing much to them and the reason that he’s just trying to scare them and get them to go away is not necessarily because the entity is frightened of them. It’s not until the very, very end of the book that the that the IT entity actually, starts to believe that, he could potentially be defeated. It it’s more so that because they are adults now, he doesn’t have as much influence over them as he did when they were children.   At at some point, Henry Bowers, who was the antagonist, you know, the bully, in the first part, we find out that after the events of the first movie, Henry Bowers took the fall for all of the murders that that it committed back in 1960. And he has been, put into a mental institution, and and he’s there. And eventually, it appears to him as Pennywise. You helped me once. 

Clip:  Remember, you chased those brats. Almost got a minute, Henry. Almost. Don’t you want another chance? You gotta go back and finish the job. You gotta go back to Derry and kill them all for me, Henry. 

Craig:  He specializes in terrorizing children. The adults of Derry don’t see him. When Richie is in the library, Pennywise, drops a whole bunch of balloons, all over the whole library. And they pop, and they spray blood in the face of all the patrons, and and nobody notices. It’s always funny to me there’s one actress who clearly reacts to the popping of the balloon. But the idea is that adults can’t see him, adults can’t see the stuff that he does. So it’s a little bit more difficult for Pennywise to get at them this time. So instead, what he does is he just tries to scare them away.   And, and he’s almost, successful. When Ben arrives, he is in the taxi cab, and, and he has the taxi cab pull over in the Barrens. And he sees an overweight kid, getting getting bullied. And it’s like identical to when he was getting bullied by Henry Bowers his gang. And then again, you know, it’s in the book, it didn’t feel repetitive. I I guess because the book is so freaking long that you kind of forget. But here it just kind of felt like, you know, a repeat of what we’d already seen. 

Todd:  And some of these scenes are kinda silly. Like that bit with Ben. Oh, he gets down. He he pulls the taxi side. He jumps down to the barons, and, oh, it happens to be that there’s another fat kid being chased by some bullies. He doesn’t do anything and they push him down, and then the kid just like lays there on the ground, like upset until Ben walks over. And he looks at his knee, and he’s like, oh, it looks like you have a scratch there, which can’t be, like, very deep or whatever. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  And then he pulls out, like, his handkerchief, dips it in freaking river water Yeah. Cleans this kid’s wound out with this, you know, probably getting it more infected and then wraps it around it, ties it on there. 

Craig:  Lucky for me, you have that hanky thing. 

Todd:  Be prepared. 

Craig:  And why don’t you just keep it? Yeah. It’s really bad. It’s really silly. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. And then then Eddie gets back, and he goes to the drugstore to get his prescription filled.   And it flashes back Todd when he was a kid, and the pharmacist, mister Keen, pulls him in the back and says, you’re old enough to know, your mom’s just a hypochondriac and she’s made you a hypochondriac. And all I’ve really been giving you is, some water with some camphor in it to make it taste like medicine. It’s all in your head. Young Eddie gets all upset and runs away, but then older, 40 year old Eddie, hears mister Keen feebly calling from the back room for a cigar, and he goes back there. And at first, you know, mister Keen is like Alzheimer’s, you know, he he’s he’s virtually catatonic, and but eventually he starts to say, it’s just water, Eddie. Of course, it’s really Pennywise, and mister King grabs Eddie’s arm, and he’s got kind of this monstrous hand. And it the message is always the same. It’s it’s turn back.   It’s go back. Get out while you still can. You’re you’re too old. You can’t defeat me now. And every pretty much every one of them gets this message. The one that I remembered the most, from when I was younger, was was Beverly when when she came home. I I I felt like her homecoming of all of them was probably the most poignant. 

Todd:  Yeah. It was almost like a mini episode of The Twilight Zone, really. She Yeah. She goes to her old house and she sees Marsh on the on the doorbell. I mean, she’s obviously lost touch with her father intentionally over all these years. She rings the doorbell and a woman answers, and she says, well, who are you looking for? He says, oh, I’m looking for Marsh. And she says, oh, Marsh doesn’t live here anymore. And Beverly is like, but it’s on the doorknob.   And when she looks over, it’s actually Kirsch. She’s like, oh, I’m sorry. It was Kirsch. And the woman’s like, oh, well, come on in anyway. I used to know your father. We’ll have some tea. So she comes and she has some tea. She goes into the bathroom and kind of revisits that.   She comes back in, and the woman is serving her tea. But then, as they’re talking, and when Beverly looks down at her tea, it’s blood, in which she drops it in in shock, and it shatters, and the woman bends down to pick it up. And then when she looks back up, she’s like a half rotting or half decrepit or whatever the face of her father, basically. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  And it turns out it’s Pennywise, and so she chases her out of there. And then when Beverly gets out across the street and turns back and looks out at the house, it looks like it it turns out it was boarded up the whole time. 

Craig:  But I think that the reason that it resonated with me was really because Beverly, of all of them, even though they were all quote unquote losers, Beverly was the one that really had kind of the most tragic story as a kid. I mean, her dad was abusive. We see that in the movie, not as nearly as much as we do in the book. In the book, it’s implied that there’s always the risk of sexual abuse. I don’t remember. Yeah. Was was was there explicitly sexual abuse in the book? 

Todd:  No. I don’t. But it was No. 

Craig:  The the the threat of it was certainly imminent. Like, you you were always worried that that it was gonna go there, especially because he was always so concerned tricked but then kind of being Todd this ghostly horrific image of her dad. That was the one that, of all of them, I felt was the most interesting. The rest were all just a little bit silly. We get a scene with Audra, she’s talking to her director, and the director’s clearly like hitting on her trying to capitalize on the fact that her husband has left and and whatnot. But, and instead of falling for that, she books a flight back to the US. She’s gonna follow Bill. And this is one of the things ultimately okay.   So both in the book and in the movie, it seems like Audra is going to come into this kinda like right in on her white horse and it, it almost feels, it, it feels like she’s maybe going to be a hero. And ultimately, I I don’t remember, you’ll have to refresh my memory how this plays out in the book because ultimately, this doesn’t pan out too much. When she actually does arrive in Derry, she’s just immediately mesmerizes her with his deadlights. And then that’s pretty much it. And then she’s just a victim from that point on. But I I do know that the, director of the movie was was really uncomfortable with this aspect of the movie. He didn’t like the fact that Audra kind of went from gallant hero to victim in in a heartbeat. Did it play out in the book the same way? 

Todd:  Well, the the whole bit with the gas station attendant was totally made up for the movie. What had happened was there were a couple people who were going back. There was Audra who was gonna go back and be kind of a white knight, but then there was Bev’s, husband, Tom, who who was much more brutal in the book, much more, like, just insanely horrible along with, you know, Henry. And, and he decides to go back, and he actually ends up meeting up with Audra, recognizes her, and he’s the one who kind of takes her, and is responsible for her ending up where she does. And I don’t remember exactly what happens to him, but he he ends up dead at some point too. But he’s a threat, so it’s like not just is Henry Bowers a threat, but this Tom guy’s a threat. And then Audra just kinda gets unfortunately sucked up in that very human human threat until she is pulled down. It’s basically like Tom gets mesmerized by Pennywise and then pulls her down into the sewer, at some point.   And we never really find out how, We just find out that it has happened. So 

Craig:  I feel like they could have incorporated some of those things. I I feel like there was time for it, and and I feel like it would have added more entry. You know, I I I guess maybe my guess would be that they wanted to keep the focus on the central characters, which I understand, but it really seemed like there would have been time for stuff like that. There were some things and again correct me if I’m wrong, it’s been a while since I’ve read it, but there were some things from the book, excuse me, that I I kinda didn’t like and I was kinda glad that they didn’t include, like, doesn’t Bill cheat on Audra with Beverly in the book? 

Todd:  Yeah. I believe that happens. And in this case, in the movie, like, the thing between her there’s kind of a triangle between her, Bill, and Ben that dates back to when they were kids. But in in the movie, they just clear cut, like, she ends up with Ben. They left that that aspect out of it. 

Craig:  Well, and I’m kinda glad because I remember finding that kind of in poor taste. And and first of all, you’re kind of rooting for Ben because he’s had the crush on Beverly from the very beginning. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Her first interest is Bill. You know, that’s who she has eyes for. And and eventually, you know, she she ends up with in any way. But the next scene, once all those people get back, and and, you know, Audra, we find out that Audra’s coming, then they all reunite at a Chinese restaurant for dinner.   You know, there are pleasantries where they all just kinda greet each other, and they’re joking around together. I saw something today. 

Clip:  Same to you.   Oh, man. What I saw at the library, woah. Was it Pennywise? With both barrels, it was Pennywise. He’s working on us already. Trying to chip away? 

Craig:  Maybe that means he’s afraid. 

Clip:  It. It’s afraid. Oh, man. It. 

Todd:  Help us remember, Mike. Help us fill in the gaps. 

Clip:  Yeah. Please. Because I don’t know what you guys are talking about. I can’t remember much of anything, and when I try, it kinda clouds over. 

Craig:  Richie, especially out of all of them, he just doesn’t wanna talk about it. 

Clip:  I don’t know about you guys, but this is the first time since I got here that I feel good. I mean, I feel halfway safe. Come on. Let’s have a couple of drinks.   If you want some   good food, have a couple of chucks. And let’s just leave the wolf out the door, 

Todd:  Spoken like the real loser, rich. 

Craig:  That’s right. 

Clip:  Todd the losers club. Alright. To 

Craig:  the losers. Losers. Losers. I’ll stay. And we just get to see them laughing and and being friends and and reminiscing about the not shitty part. 

Todd:  It’s another musical montage. Right? 

Craig:  It it I think 

Todd:  it’s the same song, if I’m not mistaken. Yeah. As when From when 

Craig:  they were building building the dam in in the first movie. Yeah. 

Todd:  I have to say, like, this aspect, this sort of theme, it it does carry through well, the the idea of reuniting with these old friends. And I I actually kinda liked this part. Me too. Just because I think I could kind of relate. Wouldn’t it be fun to get together with all of these old friends who you remember almost nothing about? And maybe you’ve already had this I’ve had an experience like this, where I’ve gotten together with friends that I literally had not seen since I was, like, 9. And they remembered things that I didn’t remember, and I remembered things that they didn’t remember, and we were just kinda swapping memories and talking about it. It was so fun. This really kinda recaptured that in this in this grand swooping, like, the camera never stops circling around the table. 

Craig:  Yeah. And and they’re joking around and they’re having a good time, and that’s nice. You know, everything has been so heavy and so dark, and it’s nice for them to have that light moment. And my, 20th high school reunion is next month, and I’m actually kinda looking forward to it for that reason, you know, just I’ve kept in touch with maybe 5 people that I went to high school with. I I would say that this scene is probably my favorite scene in the in this part of the movie. This would be the part when on my sick day, I would wake up. And then there’s kind of a cool little scary part at the end and then I could go back to sleep. And again, we keep saying this.   If you haven’t read the book, it’s fine. You can still appreciate the movie for what it is. But, you know, the book really kind of illuminates things. It’s really a bigger deal in in the book that all of them in their own right, except for Mike, who is the only one who stayed back. And that’s the reason that he remembered was because he never left. But and then we get the Henry Bowers scene, where he’s in the asylum and, Pennywise appears to him. Pennywise’s face appears in the moon and talks to him and and asks for his help and says kill them all. And then we go back to the dinner and we find out that Richie and Eddie want to leave.   You know, they they’ve they’ve fulfilled their promise. They said they would come back, but but that’s it. They wanna go home. And some people, Ben, and Bev, are, you know, a little bit they’re not angry, but they’re like, come on. We, you know, we have to do this. It’s us. We have to do it. But Mike says no.   You know, you the promise was that we would come back. As far as I’m concerned, everybody has has made good on that promise. You gotta do what you gotta do. And then the, waitress brings them their fortune cookies, and they all break into their fortune cookies. And every one of every one of them has something nightmarish in it, and each one is is kind of related to the individual person. It’s pretty effectively scary, and they’re all scared, and, you know, it was all done with puppeteers underneath, the table. And, I I I thought that was, pretty good and and pretty effective. And then they all head back to the library. 

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. Go back to the library. And Richie, the whole time, is talking about how he’s gonna bail. And this is a total construct for the movie because in the book, really, once they all get there, they kind of all they all know there’s a sort of this ominous dread. They all they don’t wanna do it, but they all know that they’re being called to do it, and they kinda have to do it. And I think that for the for the movie, because like we’ve been saying, there’s just nothing happens, that they had to do this in order to and this was their way, anyway, of injecting some tension or some conflict into the proceedings, was this this battle between them as to trying to convince everybody to stay and to finish the job. Honestly, when I first watched the movie and I hadn’t read the book, okay, it all made sense to me.   Having read the book and then watching the movie, it was a little annoying because I could see that, like I said, it was the only way they could keep this part halfway interesting, honestly. But they go to the library, and, Richie’s Richie’s being a comedian, and they call up they’re trying to call up Stan, and that’s when they find out that Stan is dead and he killed himself. At that point, they go to the fridge to get some drinks, and Mike opens it, and a bunch of balloons pop out come out, and inside the fridge stands severed head. 

Clip:  Sorry I’m late. Well, let’s see who’s here. Billy boy. Putting on a little weight. Speaking of dad’s, Bevy, yours isn’t worried about you anymore. He loves your choice in men. Wheezy, how’s your sex life? What’s your sex life? Well, Mikey, you did it. You got us all back here.   I guess it’s because it’s the only way you’d ever see us since you’re so lame, you’d never leave this town. 

Todd:  I think that’s when they flash back a little bit to Bill with with Stan a little more. Because it’s interesting, because in the first movie, we really really didn’t see a lot of Stan. 

Craig:  No. We didn’t at all. 

Todd:  So Bill remembers that he helped Stan get away on Silver. Again, this is almost also one of the first things we see of Silver being important, which, honestly, they should have stuck in, I think, the first half of the movie. I don’t know where they could have crammed it in, but somehow they should have made that important because the tail end of this movie really depends 

Craig:  on us 

Todd:  understanding that. But yeah. And then, Stan apparently saw a mummy at the old house by the park when he was out looking at birds. And 

Craig:  This is where they kind they they kinda melded some parts of the book because Stan did see something or or there was something ominous that happened, but it was in, like, some sort of, like, water tower or something in the book. And and instead, he sees it in this old house, which in the book, there was this old house, the the house on Neibolt Street. And it was kind of a big deal. And there was, I I think in the book, if I remember correctly, it was actually Eddie that, visited the house on Neibolt Street. And there was this whole deal with a leper, and it was really creepy and gross. And they didn’t include it here, I think, because, frankly, in the book, it was obscene. No. And I don’t think that they could include that.   I don’t think that they could have included that in mainstream TV movies. So they kind of, put it together here. And I agree with you that I wish that we had gotten Stan’s experience in the first movie, even though the first movie seems so jam packed already, and I I almost feel like maybe they they saved Stan’s part for the second half just for time reasons. Yeah. But it it feels a little rushed, and we don’t get very much of it. Bill talks about how, he he just saw Stan running away from this house, and and Stan jumped on the back of his bike and and Bill pedaled like he’d never pedaled before. And and they flew like the wind and and they got away. And and you’re right, that does come up later. 

Todd:  Come to think of it, like, it it’s just really hard to get that across in a movie because still, it just looks like they’re just kinda pedaling through the grass. It it you know, the the idea that this bike is just super fast doesn’t get visually across. 

Craig:  Right. Yeah. Yeah. It does. You’re right. 

Todd:  It’s a shame. 

Craig:  And it is a shame. And and something that I I think you mentioned Stand by Me last week, and it does. Especially the first part of the movie has a very Stand by Me feel, and Netflix’s Stranger Things, has really kinda capitalized on that. The nostalgia of those eighties movies that were about young people and and friendships between young people, and and you still, I get that sense from this movie Todd. But, it it’s just for whatever reason it just doesn’t feel as dynamic with the the adults. And and the director of the movie has said the same thing. He just felt like the relationship between the kids, and and the performance of the kids was there was more magic to it than there was with the adults, which is unfortunate. And and I don’t know what is to blame for that because it’s not these aren’t bad actors, you know, they’re they’re decent actors, and and they’re, I don’t know, but it it just it just doesn’t have the same magic, as as the relationships between the kids.   But, they’re they’re they’re in the library, and after they see Stan’s head, the library, kind of goes into chaos. The sprinklers go off, books start flying off the shelves. And I read that, this was actually, you know, a really chaotic scene to film and, some of the actors were actually mildly, you know, nothing severe, but mildly injured because things were flying around, so much and they they did it all in one take but they just, I guess they completely tore that place up. When all this is happening they circle up and they hold hands and they stand in a circle and it stops. And and that’s kind of a big point, you know? Earlier, Bev had had flashed back to when, the balloon, the blood balloon had popped in her bathroom, and she had tried to clean it up herself and had cleaned it up herself, but as soon as she had gotten it all cleaned up, it just immediately came back. And it was only when she brought in her friends, the the guys, to help her that it went away for good. You know, the message that we’re supposed to get there obviously is that none of them can do this alone. They have to do it together.   And I guess that’s what’s supposed to create the tension of, no, nobody can leave. Richie can’t leave. Eddie can’t leave. Nobody can leave. If they’re gonna defeat this thing, they’re gonna have to do it together. And, eventually, they kind of figure that out. 

Todd:  So after the library, well, Belch visits Henry, the ghost of Belch visits Henry, gives him his switchblade, and helps him to break out of the insane asylum that he’s in, or the whatever, the prison. So we know that he’s gonna be in pursuit, and then they go to the dairy inn together, which dairy has some really nice places. Like this this crummy little town has, like, the nicest Chinese restaurant you’ve ever seen. This lovely little bed and breakfast. 

Craig:  Oh, my gosh. And which they have 

Todd:  all to themselves. It’s very nice. And then Mike gives them all a big history lesson. And this is where we get kind of lesson, and this is where we get kind of exposition man dumps on us, 

Clip:  about the history of the town and how every 30 years 

Todd:  or so, this this there’s always a big disaster of some kind, and, then it starts eating children. 

Craig:  Well, but that wasn’t even I don’t remember it never bothering me before, but it bothered me this time because isn’t that pretty much the exact same exposition he gave in the first movie? Like, I I understand. I understand. I understand that it’s, you know, it’s been 30 years and they’re supposed to, like, kind of not remember. But basically, he just tells the same story that he told in show and tell in his first day of school in the first movie. But whatever. Whatever. So we get the history. 

Todd:  There’s an interesting scene, when Bev, visits Ben, and she starts coming on to him and telling him that, oh, yeah. I knew that you were the one who wrote that poem for me, and this is in their hotel room later afterwards. And, then it turns out to be Pennywise, and then, Henry gets to Mike and Wait. 

Craig:  Wait. Wait. Wait. Sorry. Go ahead. No. You can’t skip over it because it’s my favorite light in the old movie. Oh, yeah.   When When Ben is making out with Beverly, and then he stops and he’s looking over, Beverly’s shoulder, and there’s a mirror in the room. And, it it the camera pans down and Beverly’s wearing a shawl, but underneath the shawl you see that it’s, the clown suit, and so Ben pushes herhim away, and it’s Pennywise. And Pennywise’s lipstick is all smeared, and he says 

Clip:  Kiss me, fat boy. 

Craig:  Oh, gosh. Alright. Not that that’s important in any way at all, but, cracks me up every time. 

Todd:  So then, Henry gets to Mike, and, and Henry actually ends up dying, but not before Mike is stabbed. And so they, have somebody come and, you know, they take him to the they basically he gets ushered away to the hospital. And then Ben and Bev have another moment, and it’s almost like it’s daytime again. It’s the next morning, and Bev comes up to him and almost has almost exactly the same interaction with him as before. And once he realizes this, he’s like, wait, you’re not the clown, are you? You know? I actually thought that was kinda cool, like, this this sort of paranoia, you know, that they’re getting where they don’t know what’s real and what’s not, and it’s interfering with their own relationship there. I thought that was cool. But anyway, you you kinda figure out at this point that they’re gonna get together. Right.   Bill visits Mike in the hospital, and then Mike gives him these silver bullets. Apparently, Mike and this isn’t part of the book, but apparently, Mike went back at some point, to fairly recently, maybe. I don’t know. Went back to it was he said it was at a point where he was really low and he might as well have killed himself. He was kind of half hoping he died. He went back into the sewers and retrieved the 2 earrings that, Beverly had shot at Pennywise, just just thinking they might need them again. And so he hands those to him. Again, we have another moment where Rich and Eddie both wanna leave, And then basically, they’re all gonna go, like everybody except Bill has just decided they’re gonna leave. 

Craig:  Well, even Bill, even Bill at that point, I think they’ve all kind of decided to go. But as Bill is as they’re all walking out, Bill is the last one to go and he sees something that changes his mind. You know, they all talk and and they decide that they can’t go to the police because Henry Bauer’s body is just upstairs in one of their rooms. They’re like, what are you gonna do with this? And they haven’t they haven’t told anybody. And so they’re just gonna leave. Like, they’re just gonna leave town and get the heck out of there. But, Bill is the last one to walk out of the inn, and, as he’s walking by the lobby, he sees a woman and a young boy, at a piano playing Fur Elise. We didn’t mention that in the first movie, but that was the song that his mother was playing on the piano on the day that Georgie died.   Bill walks out and he says, I just saw something. I have no idea if it was real or if it wasn’t. I have no idea if you would have saw it or you wouldn’t, but I have to stay. I he and he says, I’m gonna kill it. And it it flashes back, to the moment from the first movie where, Bill is saying to the to the whole group, help me. Help me. And it’s it’s just kind of a a remembrance of that moment, and they do. Everybody comes over to him and and everybody embraces except for Richie.   Richie comes over and stands next to them, but he doesn’t embrace. And I read that it was scripted that they would all embrace, in a group hug, but that the the actor, I can’t think of his name, the night court guy, who played Richie. Yeah. Yeah. He, he said, no. I don’t I don’t think Richie would hug all of them. And the director eventually agreed because now, that Stan has died, he was kind of the skeptic of the group. But they do all the they all stay, then Finally.   Yeah. Exactly. Finally. I mean, this is this is it. This it’s like all up to this point has just been, Okay. Alright. Alright. Alright.   I get it. And then and then it’s and then it’s back into the sewers. And and this is we’re we’re probably in, what, the last maybe 15 minutes of the movie. You’re thinking, oh, thank Todd. Finally, they’re gonna get back into the sewers. And then they do, and it’s just not all that exciting. Like, it was it was much scarier the first time around. 

Todd:  It sure felt like it, at least at least at the beginning. They they go down there, they’re talking about actually, my favorite line of the movie my favorite line of the movie comes from Ritchie. When they’re grabbing and gathering all their stuff together, he looks at them and he’s like, 

Clip:  I don’t suppose anybody thought to bring anything really useful like a machine gun. 

Craig:  Yeah. And and Bev’s like, oh, I got my slingshot. And he’s like, okay. I still think we should’ve should’ve brought a machine gun. 

Todd:  It’s so Yeah. So they go into the sewers and, you know, Bill actually finds his wife’s purse there, so he kind of sees that Audra is down there. They end up in that spot where they had their interaction with Pennywise, the first place, and a boat comes floating down, it’s the boat that his brother, you know, in that iconic scene, Georgie, had been floating down, and then he sees Georgie, and Georgie’s like, Bill, why did you let me die? Why did you let me die? And and they’re like, oh, it’s not real, it’s not real, and so he picks up the boat, and he puts the boat back down, and the boat starts floating away from them. So the notion is that because he’s kind of overcome his fear or whatever, that it’s showing the way. 

Craig:  Well, first, Pennywise appears to them as the great and powerful Oz. That’s right. He’s just floating up in the air. Yeah. Just like it looks like they just had a projector that they projected on some fog. You know, it’s it’s kind of unfortunate special effects. But, he he says to them, you’ll never see me. You’ll only see what your little minds will allow.   But it’s it’s not, from a viewer’s perspective, particularly scary or threatening. And then, yeah, Bill puts the the boat down. The the the place that they’re in is like some sort of impasse or or crossroads, and there’s all these different sewer tunnels. And and he puts down the boat, and the boat goes down one particular tunnel, and they follow it. And you can tell if you’re looking closely that, like, it becomes much less, man made and and more natural looking. Like, they’re actually getting into the depths of, something that’s that’s supernatural, that’s not man made, something that’s ancient. And it leads them to a little tiny fairy tale door. Which could be there.   Part of the book. You know, it was in the book that way. Yeah. It’s true. Bones and skulls outside the door, and then, you know, beyond the door is the finale of the movie. 

Todd:  Big cave like chamber and, and then a giant spider comes out. 

Craig:  And and the first thing they see is this giant spider web, and it’s like this it’s like I don’t know. It go it goes up and up and up seemingly forever. And it’s, you know, there’s just this big, like, vertical tunnel of this spider web with bodies in it. And I don’t even know. I think that they see that Audra is in there. We see that Audra is in there, but it doesn’t appear that she’s dead. She just seems to be mesmerized or hypnotized or something. And then, yeah, a giant spider puppet comes out.   And I love them. You know, they They tried. What they tried, you know, it’s it’s a puppet. It’s a practical effect. It’s great big, but it it it just looks awful. I mean, it it looks like, yeah, it it looks like something. When you see it in close-up, it, from just a visual perspective, it’s scary looking, but it doesn’t move naturally, like it’s it’s it’s it doesn’t look organic, you know? It it looks like a machine. It looks like or a puppet or a prop.   And in long shots, when we’re supposed to be Todd by how large it is, it looks like something out of Clash of the Titans or something like that. Like, it’s it’s it’s not great, like, stop motion, and Todd doesn’t even look like it’s really in the scene. It looks like they did it on green screen or superimposed it on there or something. It just doesn’t look good. And then, obviously, this puppet had tons of limitations because they couldn’t really even do anything with it. Yeah. Like, it just it crawls out, and then it just stands there and looks at them for a while. And they look at it, and they’re all scared.   And Bev shoots at it with one of the pieces of silver and misses the first time just like she did the in the first movie. She shoots it again and she hits it in the face like she did in the first movie, but it doesn’t have any impact this time around. So both pieces of silver are gone. So she runs off to look for the pieces of silver, and then the spider just like rears up on its hind legs to expose its underbelly where its deadlights are. And these are its mystical, powerful deadlights that can drive people crazy, that can mesmerize people, and Bill runs up to it and is mesmerized and is frozen. And then Ben’s like, come on. You you have to run away. And he runs up and he’s mesmerized by it, and they’re just standing there.   And then Richie’s like, come on, you guy. And he runs up. And then he’s just mesmerized by us. Beth has run away. And, Eddie poor sweet cute Eddie, oh Todd. And we also skipped a part that, this isn’t in the movie. Okay. Or excuse me, not in the book.   When they’re outside the door, there has to be a Hallmark moment where Eddie, just for no apparent reason, confesses that he’s a virgin. And and and he says, I lied to you. I told you I was seeing this woman, but I’ve not, and I’ve never even been with anybody before. And rich is like, are you telling us you’re a virgin? And he’s like, yeah. And then he’s like, well, I could never be with somebody that I didn’t love, and I’ve never loved anybody except you guys. Now maybe it’s my own individual perspective. I always felt like this was kind of a coming out moment for Eddie in the movie. I thought so too.   You guys. Like, I’ve never loved anybody but you guys. You know, and then Bev gives him a big hug, like, oh, it’s okay, buddy. Isn’t there And then there’s some 

Clip:  other kid. 

Todd:  I think it’s what, Stan says to him. 

Clip:  Wheezy, how’s your sex life? What’s your sex life? 

Craig:  I don’t know if they were trying to suggest that he was gay. First of all, in the book, he wasn’t a virgin because they all pulled a train on Beverly in the sewers in the first part of the book. They all loved each other an awful lot. 

Todd:  Conveniently glossed over in the made for TV movie. 

Craig:  Which is which is fine. But okay. So then the everybody Bev’s off. Everybody else is hypnotized except Eddie, and Eddie goes up to the spider. And, again, it’s really silly. 

Clip:  I believe in Santa Claus. I believe in the Easter bunny. I believe in the tooth fairy, but I don’t believe in you. 

Craig:  And he takes his, inhaler again as he did before. He says, and this is battery acid. Now you die. And he sprays it, but nothing happens. And and the spider just grabs him and lifts him up in the air as he very dramatically, you know, screams in agony. And Bev finds the silver. She comes back around. She shoots the spider in its abdomen, which causes its deadlights to kind of explode and go out.   The spider drops Eddie and scampers away. They all gather around Eddie so that he can die in their arms, and then somebody says, We have to finish this. You know, I think Ricky says, If this day comes back when I’m 70. I don’t remember what the line was, but it’s pretty funny. And then, seriously, this is the climax of the movie and it’s so disappointing. They go into the room where the spiders are treated. They literally just push it over. Like a table.   They tip them over like a table. Yeah. And and punch its abdomen and pull out its heart, and it’s dead. And then they all they all go outside. He’s carrying well, the spider web comes down and and, Bill gets Audra and they are you know, we see them all outside and and Bill’s got Audra and Richie has brought Eddie’s body out. And, then we get invoice over Mike’s journal epilogue. 

Todd:  Bill with Audra. Audra hasn’t been the same. She’s kind of catatonic, basically. And so as Bill is loading her into the taxi to leave, he’s the last person to leave Derry. He has this idea, and he goes out and grabs silver, and he puts Audra on it, and tries to he says, you know, back when I was a kid, this this bike goes so fast it would beat the devil. I’m hoping I can do it again. And as he goes really, really fast down the street and down the hill, and as the bike picks up speed, she wakes up. And this is actually it’s part of the book too.   It was really pretty poignant, in the book. It was a conveniently poignant way to end the movie. 

Craig:  Well, and it just, it’s Todd me, it felt like a lame way to end the movie. Oh, yeah. And and you’re right. In the book in the book, it is kind of poignant because Mike explains in his epilogue that, you know, Richie went back to Hollywood and he continued to do well, and he was starring in a new movie, and he was starring alongside another comedian who, you know, looked and sounded just like Eddie, and, you know, that’s sweet. And he explains that Ben and Beverly went home together, and within, a month, they were married and and immediately pregnant. And so that that curse, was, was off of them. And then in the book, it, it takes more time. Now, it would have been boring in the movie to take more time with it, but Audra is like catatonic for like months.   Yeah. Right? Bill stays there, in Derry with Audra, but she’s catatonic and you know, he he he cares for her and, like, and for a long time. And then the thing happens where it right? He he does. You know, the whole bike ride thing happens in the book. Right? Mhmm. But it it it just it feels more like a payoff. In in the in the movie, it’s like it seems like she was catatonic that weekend, and then he took her on a bike ride and everything was okay. It was more poignant for me in the book, but you know, it’s a happy ending.   Those who survived, you know, apparently went on to be, happy and and to have been released from this this curse that they had kind of found themselves involved in. But, in the movie, you know, it’s it’s sweet, but it’s just kind of a it’s it’s a little anticlimactic. 

Todd:  Seems a little lame. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s that’s kind of a lot of the movie to the the book Todd the movie quite really, especially the second half. And, you know, I think that we were all just universally I remember just as much my one memory of my I have two memories of seeing this movie as a kid. The first memory, as I told you last week, was when I went back to school and my band teacher said, oh, my gosh. You know, this is the scariest thing I’ve ever seen. Like, my second memory was I think that very same band teacher coming back and going, oh, Todd.   Wasn’t that really lame? 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. 

Todd:  It was lame to us then, and it’s lame to us now. And I the part of the problem is it really gives the distinct impression that it was a spider all along. Right. Right. Because you don’t have all of the development that you have in the book and because they didn’t really bother to really emphasize the fact that he can take whatever form he wants. In this case, the spider was just another form he took because it is. It’s the same in the book. They’re they’re going up against the spider, but like you said earlier, it’s a much more cerebral and surreal kind of, like, metaphysical thing where they they kinda go beyond the spider and sort of delve into this, like, interdimensional thing with their minds to battle him.   So the fact that it’s a spider isn’t such a big deal, but in the movie, in the show, you just don’t get any of that. You you just don’t. 

Craig:  Right. Well, and and there’s so much more to it. Not only can it take any form, but, it’s it’s revealed at the end of the book that pen the whatever it is, whatever entity Pennywise is, is actually female and pregnant. 

Todd:  Right. And he goes and kills all the things. Yeah. And and also like the other thing is we’ve talked about how the town is so corrupt. And in the book, again, it’s just very fitting that basically the entire town of Derry just falls apart, once it is killed. It is just entwined with the town. But in the movie, even though they did mention several times, you know, this is really a part of Derry, You don’t get that whole, like like, okay, if the town’s not falling apart, at least the town should change somehow, You know? There should be some visual visible, some kind of change in the Todd, like people are happier or things are better or something like that. 

Craig:  Doesn’t the town literally kind of collapse Oh, yeah. Into the ground? 

Todd:  Completely. Yeah. The the whole town collapses into the ground. The canal that’s running under it, you know, just, like, comes up and there’s a huge flood and basically, like, half the town’s people die. And, yeah, the town becomes a giant lake, essentially. Without that Todd, it’s just it’s another one of those, oh, there was this spider monster living under the town, and we almost beat it once, and then we come back and we beat around for a while, and then we go down and it was pretty easy for us to beat it, actually. It was it’s actually kind of a shame because by that point where they’re going up against the spider, there’s no more Pennywise. 

Craig:  Right. There’s no more is not even in the last 15 minutes of the movie. 

Todd:  Yeah. And and without that, it loses its personality. And so when they’re fighting a giant spider, it’s not talking. There’s not so yeah. So, like, it it just seems so disconnected, and and I think that’s part of why it’s such a letdown. It just it seems like a cop out. It’s not really a cop out. It’s just an unsuccessful, I think, translation of the book to the film. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. And all that said, as as critical as we have been, especially of the second part, I still and always will have really fond movies of this fond memories of this movie. This is the second time that you’ve you’ve mixed memories in movies when you said this. Yeah. The first time you you said It’s early here. I have really fond memories of this movie. I have really fond movies of this.   I’ll try again. Alright? Alright. With all as critical as we have been, about this, especially the second half, I still do and always will have fond memories, of this movie. When I was young, I found it entertaining and scary. And I will stand by the fact that Tim Curry is excellent, in this role. I look forward to the remake. You know, the remake is coming out here in couple of weeks. When I heard about the remake, I was excited but also skeptical because it’s not that I don’t think they can do good job.   I do think they can do a good job. In fact, I I I believe and hope that it will be better, than this. But but Tim Curry’s role is so iconic. I mean, I really feel like he’s really cemented himself as in this role, especially as, an icon right up there with Freddy and Jason and and Frankenstein. You know, like, he’s he’s one of those iconic horror villains. I don’t remember which Skarsgard brother it is that is, playing Pennywise in the new one. You know, I’ve seen the trailers. The trailers look good.   They look really promising. The movie looks like it’s got a good vibe. I know that, they, have updated Todd. It the, you know, the first part of the movie, and and that’s to say that we’ll get a second part. I have a feeling that this first movie is going to do incredibly well at the box office. So I believe that we’ll get the second half, but they haven’t made it yet. But, it it looks like it’s got a really good vibe. It’s it’s not set in the sixties.   It’s set in the eighties, the first part. And, the, director and the the filmmakers have said that they have taken some liberties with the source material and, and whereas in, in the original novel, it was kind of the classic movie monsters like Wolfman and Frankenstein that the kids were afraid of. They’ve kind of updated it so we might see Pennywise in some different different incarnations. I I really hope that it’s Todd, but I think Tim Curry will always be penny wise to me. 

Todd:  Yeah. For sure. That’s definitely our age talking though. 

Craig:  Yeah. It is. Absolutely. And that’s the thing. You know, I talk about, in in the around, Halloween time, I do a horror fiction unit with my high school kids. And I talk about this movie, and I show them, a couple of clips of Tim Curry as Pennywise. But it it just gets harder and harder to recommend this movie because it just doesn’t play well for a young Todd audience. It it hasn’t aged well.   It it it just hasn’t. So I I I really hope that this new version will speak to the younger generation and that they can kind of enjoy the story the same way that we did when we were young. 

Todd:  In the same respect, the fact that it had a big impact on us at least back then, obviously, it was part of the times, but also maybe just if you’re the right age, you know, if you’re with the right mindset to watch this, you could get something out of it. I mean, again, we were all disappointed in it even back then. But I’m wondering, you know, my I’m always looking for movies I can watch with my wife because she doesn’t really like horror movies. And this seems like it would be safe enough. Well, it is definitely safe enough that the 2 of us could watch. I’d be interested to see how she would react to it. And, I was also thinking, yeah, this might be a Todd, I don’t know, first, but certainly kind of one of the first horror movies for my son to see because it’s it’s got some depth to it. It’s got some it it’s it’s it’s not a simple story, really, but it’s safe enough, really that that that he might enjoy it and maybe be scared, you know, when he watches it for the first time.   I don’t know. 

Craig:  It it is safe enough and that there’s not a ton of gore, there’s not any sex. There’s no bad language. So yeah. I would like to believe that it still has a place, as as dated as it may be. Who knows? And and hopefully, one of these days, sometime in the not too distant future, we can talk about the remake, and see how it compares. 

Todd:  Absolutely. I’m looking forward to it too. I’m really excited. 

Craig:  Me too. Alright. Well, thank you for joining us for another episode. If you enjoyed this episode, you can find 90 something back episodes on, Stitcher or Itunes. As always please feel free to, share this with your friends. We would love also to hear from you, what you think of this movie or our assessment of it. And, if you have, any recommendations for movies that we could talk about in the future, let us know. We’ve actually got a pretty good list going of, listener recommendations.   But if you if you give us something, we’ll put you on the list and hopefully we’ll get around to it. Until next week, I’m Craig. And I’m Todd. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.