Halloween 3

Halloween 3

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Fresh off the heels of two commercially successful films starring Michael Meyers, Team John Carpenter took a left turn and decided the Halloween series would be better as an annual holiday-themed horror anthology. And maybe it would have been, had they not led the charge with this turkey. As much as we wanted to, neither of us could muster up much enthusiasm for the absurd plot and boring pacing.

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Halloween 3: Season of the Witch (1982)

Episode 54, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys With A Chainsaw. I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. Today’s film, is Halloween 3. Halloween 3 is the 3rd episode in the Halloween franchise. The first two, of course, by John Carpenter and starring Michael Myers, the serial killer. That one is tangentially related to Halloween. I think, Michael Myers does his first killing on Halloween, and then he comes back, I think, the next Halloween, well, not the next Halloween.   He comes back in a future Halloween, to wreak his revenge. This film, by now, John Carpenter and his producer, Deborah Hill, were getting a little tired of doing Michael Myers. At least, he he wasn’t really interested in doing a third sequel with the serial killer. So, they thought they had a good thing going here. The Halloween franchise, the Halloween name. Why not develop a sort of series of films with the title Halloween that could come out every October that had some kind of Halloween theme to it. Something for the holidays. And so this was their first stab at that.   The subtitle is called season of the witch, and it didn’t do very well. In fact, it turns out that most of the public wanted to see more Michael Myers, and that may be one of the big reasons that this film was not critically received too well at the time. And so, of course, by the 4th Halloween, they were back to Michael Myers. So this is a bit of an outlier in the Halloween series of films from John Carpenter. Now again, all the future films were not even necessarily directed by John Carpenter or written by him, but of course, at least produced by him. So, Craig, I have seen this film 3 or 4 times before this. You’re the one who decided, who suggested it for this this October. Had you seen this film before, or what was what was kinda behind your your reasoning here? 

Craig:  Well, you know, we were talking about films that would be appropriate for the Halloween season, not that any horror film wouldn’t be. And you mentioned that maybe we would consider, tackling the first, Halloween, that that John Carpenter directed. But we kind of mutually agreed that that one’s kinda been talked about a lot, and this one hasn’t got as much, attention. And, no, I I had never seen it. I I knew about it, and I I knew that it was a standalone film, related really only by name and and with the holiday connection. But it wasn’t until I read up on it a little bit, it was my understanding that when they made the first Halloween, they always had in mind this idea of an anthology. They they thought that if they would make a sequel, that it would be a completely different story. It was just that the first one did so well, and people responded so well and responded the characters so well.   They thought, alright. Let’s go ahead and do, a second one with, Michael Myers, and they did. But then they had plans to go ahead with, the original concept and and make it an anthology thing. And like you said, it just didn’t do particularly well. And I think that part of the reason that it didn’t do well is because people were expecting more Myers. And, when they didn’t get it, they were disappointed, and maybe didn’t give this movie much of a chance. So I saw this movie for the first time today. I had a general idea of what it was about, but this, was my first time actually seeing it, and, it’s it’s interesting.   I mean, it it it certainly is a standalone film. There are some very brief connections, to the original only in that they reference the original as a movie, and we see, clips from, the original Halloween, on TVs, in the film a couple of times. But it appears that this film exists in a universe where though those movies are movies. They’re not, they don’t exist, in the same reality or the same universe. And this one, you know, takes a a completely different take. It’s not really a slasher film. It’s it’s got other stuff going on. And, I don’t know.   You know, had I seen it when it came out, my expectations probably would have been the same as other people’s, and I I I do think that I would have left puzzled not really understanding what they were going for or why this wasn’t just a standalone movie, why they would try to tie it to the original at all. But that being said, it it it does stand on its own, and it’s it’s interesting. I’ll say that much for it. 

Todd:  Yeah. It sounds like we’re going to agree on on a little bit of about this movie, unlike, some some episodes before where we’re where we’re a little bit of an Todd odds. Certainly not with last week’s episode Elvira where I think we’re also very much on the same page. Alright. Yeah. This movie came out in 1982, and it almost seems like a lower budget production, I think. There were times watching this film that I felt like almost like I was watching a TV movie. In fact, if it weren’t for the gore effects to come along later, it does seem almost a little sanitized in other elements of for like a TV market.   This is a this is a film that where if you just take out a few scenes, or shorten them, you could show it on TV no problem. Right. Now, it starts off with a man being pursued, kind of down the dark street by an overpass, and he ends up in cornered in some kind of, I don’t know, it’s like a trailer park or not not necessarily a trailer park, some kind of construction site, I think.   And,   and, he gets tripped up a little bit, and, the car that’s pursuing him stops, and it’s this dark like black sedan or something. This figure comes out of the car, he’s in a suit, the man gets tripped up, the guy in the suit comes after him, gets on top of him, starts to try to choke him, and this I think is the first point. You Todd disappointed almost right away, I think, in this movie with this little fight scene between these 2 guys, because what happens is, he’s down in front of 1 car. I think it was a car maybe he was trying to start, I don’t know, and the guy’s on top of him trying to choke him, and this man reaches out and there’s a chain laying there. And he reaches out, reaches out, manages to pull this chain that happens to be connected to a block that is holding another car and it’s being held by this block, and when he pulls this chain away, the other car starts to slowly roll towards them. And as the car slowly rolls towards them, what happens is it crushes the man who is kneeling on top of him. At least we think he’s a man at the time, and you could kind of look back on the scene and think, okay, well maybe that’s why this scene looks so dumb. But what happens is these 2 cars just kind of Craig this guy, and it looks really slow, and the man just sort of flops forward or flops backwards.   And I mean, man, does it look bad? 

Craig:  Yeah. It doesn’t look good. I mean, I don’t know about, you know, the physics and how much cars weigh or whatever, but like you said, it just rolls really slowly right into him. It doesn’t seem like it it may have made him uncomfortable. You know, it may have pinned him there, but, you know, we get, yeah, we get, like, a like, a crunching noise, and it seems like it just totally crushes this guy, which seems pretty unlikely. But anyway, the guy who was running away gets away, and, he it it it we get a a subtitle 1 hour later, which we get a lot of these all throughout. It it it starts on, October Saturday 23rd, and we keep getting updates of of how the time is progressing until we actually get to Halloween. But 1 hour later, we get to this gas station.   The attendant is watching television, and there’s a preview for, an upcoming horrorathon, on Thanksgiving night that is sponsored by Silver, Shamrock Novelties who have put out, new Halloween masks for the season. 

Todd:  Yes, kids. You too can own one of the big Halloween threes. That’s right. Three horrific masks to choose from. They’re fun, they’re frightening, and they glow in the dark. 

Craig:  It advertises the movie they’re they’re gonna play, which is original Halloween, and we see a little clip of that with Michael Myers. And and then apparently, there’s some sort of contest. If if the kids who have bought these masks put on their masks and and watch for this contest during the broadcast, then they can win some sort of prize. It’s it’s it’s kind of ambiguous. We don’t really know what’s gonna happen. But the attendant hears a noise outside. It turns out it’s the man who was being pursued before who comes in, and just kind of collapses. And I I I didn’t understand what was going on.   I didn’t know if he, like, had a heart attack, if he just dropped dead. The only thing he says is, They’re coming. And then we cut away from that scene, and we get to this domestic scene where there are these 2 little kids and they come to greet who we assume is their dad at the door, and he greets them. And the mother comes around the corner, and it’s apparent that the mother and the father have tension between them. And the the dad, who we find out is his name is Dan, and he’s a doctor. The dad has brought gifts for the kids, and he pulls them out in their masks. And and they look like the kind of masks that I remembered from when I was a really little kid when my parents didn’t have any money, and they were just those really, really flimsy plastic masks with the, like, tiny elastic string that you would put on your face, and they would break in 5 seconds. And the kids aren’t happy with those because their mom already got the masks, and she got them, the silver Shamrock masks.   So we know that his kids have these masks, but he immediately gets called back to the hospital, where the running man, the guy who was getting chased has been brought in. He’s kind of, catatonic, I guess, and they’re the doctors and nurses are talking over him. The gas station attendant is saying, you know, I don’t I don’t have any idea what’s going on. I just found him. And the guy lays there catatonic until on a TV in the background, the Silver Shamrock, commercial comes on again. And it’s this I don’t know. It’s not super annoying. It’s only annoying because they play it 14 times throughout the movie.   But Todd, did you count? This this no. I looked it up. Oh, jeez. But, it plays constantly, and it’s just kind of this high pitched fast, to the tune of, London Bridge Falling Down, I think. He see he hears that, and he turns and sees it, which kind of wakes him up. And he says to no one in particular, but the doctors are all standing along. He says, they’re going to kill us all. And at that point, they kind of wheel him away, and everybody else is, you know, goes about their business.   The doctor, Dan, is tired. He kind of flirts with his nurse, you know, a a friendly workplace flirtation. But he goes off to take a nap. She goes somewhere else leaving this chase guy alone, which we know isn’t a good thing because he’s still being pursued by these suits. 

Todd:  Yeah. And it’s, it’s interesting because there is a lot jam packed into the first, like, 5 or 10 minutes of this film. You just ran   through   it that what what what one thing you didn’t mention was before the gas station attendant sees the commercial for Silver Shamrock, there’s this brief news broadcast that I really, obviously goes goes by so quickly you could miss it, and I may have even missed it the first time I saw it where it says that a stone from Stonehenge has been found missing. Todd knows Right. Where it is, which is a very odd thing, But, you know, of course, in a movie, whenever you see news broadcast, that’s going to be significant. And let’s just talk for a second, Craig, because you breezed right past it, but I just can’t let up on how weak it is to start your movie with the lamest looking kill you could possibly imagine. I don’t care if it makes sense in the context of it. Later on, if you look back, you can kind of make excuses for it. It does not put you in the right frame of mind to enjoy what you were hoping is going to be an intense horror film. Right?   Are you talking about the car 

Craig:  thing still? 

Todd:  Yes. I’m still talking about the car thing. I mean, it is not just I mean, I can’t even. You’d have to see it to know how goofball it looks that this guy just just flops forward and flops back as this car slowly rolls towards him and, like, pins him in. It’s just bad. 

Craig:  Well and you said, you know, you can kinda put 2 and 2 together and figure out why they did that. Not really because Not even. There there’s not really any point in talking about this chronologically. There’s no sense in, like, saving big surprises or anything because they’re not all that shocking. You can kinda figure out things as you go along. Sure. It turns out that these guys, these suit guys are like henchmen, and they’re actually robots. And they’re supposed to be super, super strong.   So Yes. Why would this slow moving car crush it with with no problem at all? It really doesn’t make sense at all. 

Todd:  Yeah. There’s so much about this movie. There’s so much about this movie. Oh my gosh. 

Craig:  That be that being said, though, you know, I was trying to lead you up to the next kill, which I actually thought was pretty good. You know, there are some, of the the the practical gore effects where, you know, by today’s standards, they haven’t really aged all that well because you can clearly tell that, it’s masks and dummies and and, those types of things being used. It doesn’t really look real, but that doesn’t keep it from looking cool. And, this this second death in the hospital of the guy that got chased, I thought that was pretty awesome. 

Todd:  Yeah. It it was. It was different too, and that’s the thing that you’re looking for obviously in these kind of movies is is is uniqueness in the kills as just as as horrible as that sounds, we all know that’s what we want. So, yeah, the guys the guys laying in bed, and another one of these suited guys comes in and walks down the hall of this completely deserted hospital.   This is   That’s right. This is again, yeah, one of those points at which you do feel like the movie must be a low budget affair, or it looks like this. I mean, there’s no problem with this guy getting into the hospital walking down, and there’s no nurse, nobody around to confront him or say anything. And again, this might have been in an era when, you know, we weren’t so paranoid about people coming and going from hospitals as we are now, maybe an era with little less privacy or whatnot. But this has got to be a pretty darn sleepy town that could handle this guy kind of in the middle of the night, and then everybody kind of goes off to their corner to sleep. And as far as, we’ve really only seen like 2 people in this hospital is the doctor and this nurse. Anyway, a guy comes in, he comes in, and you know, he things aren’t good. He puts on gloves, I think, and then he goes up to the man, and you’re thinking, oh he’s gonna smother him with a pillow or something, but he he covers his mouth like he’s gonna suffocate him.   And then he picks up his hand and it looks like he’s gonna do something, but then he makes a pincher motion with his hand. It’s kind of neat actually how you’re wondering what he’s going to do, and that kind of builds and builds and builds with each shot. He comes down 

Craig:  I thought he was gonna pinch his nose. I thought he was gonna pinch his nose and suffocate him. 

Todd:  Yeah. I did Todd. And but he doesn’t. He actually gouges his fingers into this guy’s eyes, and then with using the leverage of his hand on his mouth, pulls up and I guess like sort of snaps his skull, doesn’t he? Like grabs that spot in your skull between your eyes, gets behind it, and then yanks up on it, which you know, would it bends your nose up and I guess would also sort of drive that bone maybe a little bit into your brain. Yeah, really unique kill, and he as he walks away, we see the aftermath. And it’s not as bloody as you would think it would be, but it’s certainly pretty gross looking, And just the idea of it is is kind of Craig worthy. So, yeah, that’s not a bad 

Craig:  deal. Yeah. I’ve I’ve never seen anything like that. I I mean, you know, you see eye gouging or whatnot, but that that Todd, like, put the fingers in and grab and pull, and and it did. I mean, it it kinda makes you it gives you the goosebumps, because that would certainly be an unpleasant way to go. 

Todd:  Yeah. But it it also shows you that unlike what you kind of expect at this point in the movie, which would be something like a suffocation or yanking out the IV, or something that would be a little undetectable as a murder, this guy doesn’t care about leaving a trail of what he’s done, and in fact, as he walks out and the nurse gets alerted and Doctor. Dan goes in pursuit of him, this man calmly walks out to a car in the parking lot, dumps, sits in the front seat, dumps a bunch of gasoline over himself and lights himself on fire right there, which of course makes the car explode as well. Why not throw in a car explosion? Sure. So yeah, so that’s all kind of a freaky type of deal, and then 4 days later, Doctor. Dan is still troubled by all of this. The police don’t really have anything to go on. It’s a little weird, like nobody notices that this guy’s carrying this mask around, at least up until the very end when one of the cops has it and kind of is tossing it around.   I think it ends up in evidence or something like that, But, yeah, he goes to visit the corner. Do we ever get a name on the corner? She has a name. Right? 

Craig:  Yeah. Her name is Teddy. Uh-huh. 

Todd:  And and I guess she’s not even corner, but, like, a corner’s assistant or something because she’s Or, 

Craig:  like, a lab tech. I don’t know. I couldn’t figure it out. She’s always just sitting at the same desk. Like, every scene that she’s in, it’s just her sitting at the same desk with various different things in front of her. And she’s in, like, she’s in pro she’s got her own, like, 4 or 5 scenes, and in every single one, she’s just sitting in this one same spot. Oh, yeah. That’s funny. 

Todd:  And the movie, like, takes place over the course of, like, a week, but, yeah, she is always there. I mean, I’m sure that they just called her and they filmed all of her scenes, like, in one day. Said, okay. Bye bye. 

Craig:  Oh, I’m sure. Right? And that’s like you said, it happens over several days, and, like, it doesn’t matter what you know, day or night. Yes. Over these the course of these days, you can call and Teddy’s gonna be there. 

Todd:  Sitting right there. 

Craig:  She lives at that desk. If yeah. 

Todd:  In front of the same three trays of ashes and stuff from this.   Right.   It it takes her that long, apparently, to pick through this wreckage. Well, she’s like, I don’t know, but you know what? I’ll see what I can do. It’s like he’s calling in a favor with her Todd let him know or to, I guess, up the bump up the priority of, investigating the ashes from this car wreck just to see what is all about this guy out in the in the alley who blew himself out in the car. So yeah, it jumps immediately to 4 days later. That’s when that happens, and immediately after that discussion, we’re at 2 days later, and they were at a bar. There’s another nice shout out to the Halloween movie that’s playing on the bar and a more of that annoying commercial. This commercial comes on, and you know, there’s another weird thing about this movie is that it really hammers you over the head with this silver Shamrock. It really doesn’t leave much up to your imagination, or leave much for later.   You really know that there’s something sinister about these Silver Shamrock masks, but you also know that apparently, the Silver Shamrock company and these masks are supremely popular this Halloween because they are spending a ton of money on advertising. It’s on every channel and on every TV anytime anyone turns 1 on or one happens to be in the background, always playing that annoying thing, and it’s advertising these 3 masks. And it gets to be, for me, a little silly just for the fact that Halloween’s not really Christmas. You know, it’s not like that one toy that every kid really has to have around Christmas time that everyone’s kind of going nuts for, and the parents are fighting each other to get to and it’s sold out in all the stores. These are Halloween masks, and they’re pretty basic Halloween masks with that. I mean, they’re Todd looking, you know. There’s this, but I’m saying it’s a witch, it’s a skeleton, and it’s a pumpkin. And the idea that these 3 Halloween masks are gonna be so popular that every kid is gonna want to go as one of 3 things for Halloween, that kind of misses what the holiday is all about.   It’s like in the alternate universe in which this movie exists, people celebrate Halloween in a different way. Like like later on, you see scenes when all the kids it’s Halloween night and all the kids are wearing masks, and they’re running around, and whether it’s a clown or a ballerina or like a legitimate skeleton or pumpkin, everyone is wearing a mask, Like, it’s a ballerina with a pumpkin head on. It’s, you know Right. It’s it’s it’s like a clown with the witch’s mask on. It’s it’s not at all like Halloween really is. 

Craig:  Yeah. I totally I totally agree with you there. I thought, the same thing. Why would every kid in America wanna wear the one of the 3 exact same masks? Like, it it really doesn’t make sense. But I will say that, the excitement around Halloween that they portray in the movie, I feel like that’s kind of true to the time period. Now maybe I’m just romanticizing our childhood, but it seemed to me that Halloween was much more of an event when we were kids. Like, there would be a big build up to it and, you know, on Halloween night you 

Todd:  would dress up in your costume whether your parents 

Craig:  could afford to buy you And you’d go out, into And you’d go out, into the street and the streets would just be lined with kids and parents going door to door. And and it was an exciting time, like it was a big, you know, it was maybe not as big as Christmas, but it was something that we anticipated and that we looked forward to. And I just don’t see that as much in our culture anymore. I think that we’re so concerned about safety. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but we’re so concerned about safety and protective of our children that I don’t even see many kids on the streets anymore for for Halloween. You know, there’s other things organized for them to do like, trunk or treats or or going Todd, dorms or apartment complexes where things are a little bit more controlled. But it was kind of nice, for nostalgic purposes to see that excitement in all these little kids surrounding the holiday. And and despite the fact that it was totally unbelievable that they would all be wearing the same masks, that really did kinda put me in the Halloween spirit. 

Todd:  Well and I I’ll give you that. And also, you know, I think television at the time had a lot to do with it too. You know, we didn’t have we had cable, but mostly everybody was still watching network TV, and and you had your Halloween specials. You would watch commercials all the time would be coming up about how McDonald’s would have their Halloween Happy Meal stuff and all these different food products. New Halloween cereals would come out, and so television, I think at the time, network television may have been that binding force that gave us that build up we were looking for. You get up for Saturday morning cartoons and this this, you know, for the for this week, it’s the Garfield Halloween special, which would have been played up for a week before. So like in that sense, having TV, even if it’s just this commercial, be a central folk part of that experience in this movie is also pretty accurate. I would say it would have been better if it had been, you know, maybe a movie or something like that instead of this commercial.   Even though I guess, right, you know, they’re advertising a movie. You’re right, it probably makes a little more sense for that time than it does for now. Sad to say. Sadness. Oh, I could go on and on about how, how crappy Halloween’s gotten, but, but it’s a movie 

Craig:  for us. I know. I I know. And I still get so excited about it and like, as I’ve said many many times, I teach school and and I try to get my kids pumped about it. And, you know, you you you give them a little bit of prodding and they will get, excited about it. But, anyway, the daughter of the man who was murdered, the guy who had them I I don’t think we even mentioned before that the guy who was running away had one of those masks on him the whole time, and, people at the hospital after he was dead finally noticed, but nobody put 2 and 2 together. I also thought that it didn’t really make any sense that the henchman robot didn’t take the mask. Yeah. 

Todd:  So 

Craig:  there wouldn’t but I don’t know. Maybe they weren’t concerned about evidence. But anyway, the daughter, of this guy, her name is Ellie, and she seeks out the doctor. 

Clip:  I saw you at the funeral. Thank you. 

Todd:  I’m sorry about your father. 

Craig:  35 to 30 to 25. Nobody’s close enough. 

Clip:  Did my father say anything to you the night he died? 

Todd:  Yeah. He, yeah. He said tell Ellie I love her. 

Clip:  A bad liar. Thank you anyway. 

Todd:  Wait a second. 

Craig:  Wait a second. It’s up, and it 

Todd:  keeps you good. I saw something that night. I don’t know. Your father came into the hospital, and he I thought he was crazy out of his mind. He’s hanging on to a Halloween mask. He wouldn’t let it go. And what he said was, they’re gonna kill us all. And in a little while, he was dead.   And I don’t know what the hell is going on. So the 

Craig:  2 of them kinda hook up, and then they’re playing detective for the rest of the movie. The first thing they do is they go to this shop. I couldn’t tell if it was just, like, a general store or if it was a toy store, but apparently Ellie’s dad, the guy that was killed, owns this store and really, reveled in, you know, making kids happy and and all that kind of stuff. But she goes to his records. Apparently, he kept very detailed notes of what he did on a day to day basis Then he was supposed Then he was supposed to go pick up these masks, and that was the last time anybody saw him. He didn’t meet any of his appointments after that. So it’s gotta have something to do with this place. And so the 2 of them travel to Santa Marra, which is the small town home of the Silver Shamrock, company, And it’s one of those company towns where the the town is populated by people who work in the factory.   The factory is really kind of the dominant force in the town. And they drive in there, and of course, we get the shot of the spooky locals looking at them, you know, from behind, closed doors and closed windows. 

Todd:  Which is so overblown. I mean, those are some cheesy shots too. 

Craig:  Right. And and again, it’s never really it’s never really capitalized on because I got the suggestion that all of the people in the town were kind of in on this. And I don’t know if that’s even the case because Todd doesn’t really play out. They they go scope out the factory first, but then they decide they’re gonna go get a motel room so it won’t so it’ll look more like they’re just, there as buyers, and it won’t be so suspicious. And they pose as husband and wife and, get this hotel room. And the guy that rents them, the motel room, he seems a little shady maybe. I mean, he’s very friendly, but you wonder if he’s kind of shady. And there’s suggestion later on that he kind of is in on what’s going on, but that’s the only, you know, local, that really is involved at all.   So all of those shots establishing the spooky locals are really kind of all for naught, I guess, unless you’re just trying to establish atmosphere. 

Todd:  And they really play up the Irishness of this town. It’s, like, you know, founded by Irish immigrants, this mister Cochrane who owns the factory, and the guy you just mentioned who owns the hotel or runs the hotel is like super Irish man. It’s like, who can give us the best thickest Irish accent, and that’s the guy that they cast here.   Good evening to you. 

Clip:  Say, partner, you happen to know, is there a vacancy here in this motel? My wife and I need a place to stay. 

Todd:  You’ve come to the right place. It’s cozy, it’s quiet, and the price is right.   Later on, and I’m I’m probably jumping ahead a little bit, but later on the doctor bumps into a bum who’s complaining about the fact that, mister Cochrane when he founded the factory didn’t hire any locals like him, brought in all outside people. So that is a little incongruous because if it’s a company town and there are all these people living there and they’re so proud of the town and proud of the factory, how is it? Because none of them are employed by the factory.   That’s right.   You know what I mean?   Yeah. It doesn’t really it 

Craig:  doesn’t really right. I know exactly what you mean. It doesn’t really make sense. And they’re, you know, there’s just these little things that I I feel like are supposed to be I don’t know if they’re supposed to be, red herrings or what, but like, well, at the hotel, they all they were introduced to some other ancillary characters that really aren’t all that important. They just kinda serve their role and are done. But there’s this annoying family, Buddy and Betty, Kupfer, and their son. And they Buddy is a a buyer and distributor of the masks that’s why his family is there. And then there’s another woman there, Marge, who’s a toy shop owner, and she’s there for stuff Todd, and we meet them.   But then right away, apparently it’s dusk and we hear this announcement that plays over these Todd speakers all throughout town. 

Clip:  It’s 6 o’clock. It’s 6 o’clock. Curfew. Curfew. All residents of Santa Mira, please clear the street. Curfew is now in effect. 

Craig:  Fun bit of trivia, the voice on the announcement is Jamie Lee Curtis who, of course, starred in the first two films. But then, like, they announced this 6 o’clock curfew. And then Dan is just wandering around town, and he runs into this bum who’s also running wandering around town. So it doesn’t seem like they enforce this curfew very well. Well, no. Like And I I 

Todd:  And he runs into the bum coming out of the shop. 

Craig:  Like, what is I don’t understand what the point of the curfew is. 

Todd:  Yeah. Right. This shop was open. I mean, he got something to drink. Yeah. Yeah. It’s weird. And again, what would be the point? Even looking back, what would be the point of this curfew? It’s all set up just to make this town seem very sinister.   It has these cameras that are mounted, they’re following everybody. Of course, the suspicious locals, it’s all, you know, obviously just laying it on super thick. I mean, so thick you can finish writing the movie yourself at this point. Right. That Right.   You   know, you’ve gotten so much information that honestly and again, one of the things I think is frustrating about this movie is by by now, you know something’s going on. You just don’t have the details, and frustratingly, the rest of the movie takes its time laying out the details. Most movies are more coy about these details or keep hold some things back, so that there’s a sense of discovery. So that when these people are going on their detective chase, you’re kind of going along it with them, but in this movie, you’re just kind of waiting and twiddling your thumbs for them to find out and get to the stuff that to get to that point where you don’t know anything. And so that’s why I felt like the movie really kind of slows down here a little bit. Even though stuff is going on and even though sinister stuff is going on and they’re clearly trying to create this tension of this tension, I didn’t feel it myself. 

Craig:  Well, you’re absolutely right. I thought that this movie was too long. I thought that it could have been, you know, it it was an interesting idea. I like the idea. I think it’s a really clever idea. I don’t think that it’s executed well even conceptually, but I do think that the idea is interesting. But, yeah, not only is all this stuff going on that really never pays off, but there’s stupid stuff going on too. Like, Dan and, Ellie just out of nowhere start making out.   Like, like, they have, like, 5 seconds of coy flirtation, and then they’re making out. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And then the very next time they’re together, they’re having sex. Like, what? These people just met. They don’t even know each other. 

Todd:  He’s married. Isn’t he? 

Craig:  Well, he’s not. He the the woman that we saw before is his ex wife. 

Todd:  Oh, that was 

Craig:  He’s not married. 

Todd:  Okay. 

Craig:  But that’s the but the other thing too is, you know, this actor, he’s really familiar. You’ve seen him in lots of things. His name’s Tom Atkins. He’s been in other carpenter things. He was in Escape from New York. He was in the fog. More recently now that he’s an older gentleman, he’s been on Criminal Minds and stuff. Very familiar.   And, you know, arguably a real man’s man, but he’s a little bit older and he’s significantly older than the actress that plays Ellie. And I don’t know, maybe standards are very different in the eighties, but he’s not very attractive. No. It’s just hard to believe that this young attractive girl would just throw herself at this guy that clearly is old enough to be her dad or maybe even her granddad. So that it just seemed dumb. Like why did 

Todd:  we need that? Doesn’t make any sense. It doesn’t add anything to 

Craig:  the story. It just seems stupid. We do Todd, like you said, they start to kind of lay out the information what’s happening. Marge, this, other woman who’s staying at the hotel who also is a retailer, she says something to Ellie like, oh, yeah. I love these masks, but, you know, now that they’re selling a lot of them, they’re hard to deal with, and I had to come and pick up things on my own and blah blah blah. And and she says, and and plus, look, I don’t mean to criticize their quality, but the logo fell off of this one. I don’t think the logo should fall off. The logo is like this big metal, it looks like a big metal coin on the on just on the back of the mask with the big silver Shamrock on it.   And when it falls off, we see the back of it and it looks like a very, very old fashioned, computer chip on the other side. And then we cut to a scene where Dan and Ellie get it on for no apparent reason, and then we cut back to Marches and and it is. Well, I to be fair, I read that that was, like, one of the very first things that they shot. Like, they had barely met one another, and then they had to see film that bedroom scene. So I would imagine that it was awkward. But Marge, Marge, is reading. She’s bored. She grabs the thing and she looks at the back and she sees well, I don’t know if she knows what it is, but she sees that it’s something.   And she kinda starts poking at it, like with a pen or something, and something happens. I don’t know if it shorts out or what, but this big beam of light or electricity or something zaps her in the face. And, Dan and Ellie next door hear it, but they’re getting it on so they don’t care. They ignore it. But when we cut back to her, the whole front part of her face is severely burned. Like, it’s it’s almost like it’s burned a big hole in the front of her face around her mouth, and this big hornet, comes out. And the next day, these these suits, now in white coats, come for for her Todd. And, they’re taking her out, and Dan and Ellie come to see what’s going on.   And she’s all wrapped up like a corpse, but they’re like, is she okay? And 

Todd:  the people 

Craig:  are like, oh, yeah. She’s fine. We’re just gonna go get her fixed up. And Cochran, who is the owner and founder of the company and who is this mysterious figure that we’ve heard about but not seen yet, he shows up. He’s this dapper looking older man. 

Todd:  Mister Cochrane, good to see you, sir. Good evening, mister Rafferty. It’s all over, my friends. Just a small accident. The lady’s going to get the very best possible treatment. I promise you that. Where are they taking her? They’re taking her to the factory. So we have the most marvelous facility there for emergency treatment.   What happened? Misfire. 

Craig:  And so they know something is, going up, or going on. Excuse me. And then again, we get another Teddy scene. I guess, Dan calls Teddy to see if there’s been any, new developments in this autopsy, and she just says, no, it’s really weird. I think we got the wrong stuff because everything in the bag is like car parts. There’s no human, material. So already, big hint. They’re they’re robots as if we couldn’t have figured that out really at this point anyway.   And then, Dan and Ellie go to the factory, and I think that they are just going to kinda try to scope it out. But as it turns out, that other family that I had mentioned before, the, Kupfers are there. And because Mr. Kupfer, I guess, is one of the leading retailers in selling these masks, his family is being offered a tour of the ma of the factory, and, Ellie and Dan are able to kind of worm their way in, so that they get to go along. And then we kinda get a tour of the factory, but it’s not very exciting. 

Todd:  No. It’s not. It’s not a huge production either. I I mean, for the top selling Halloween masks, in the country, all being made by hand in this looks like a pretty laborious, fashion. In what is admittedly not even a very impressive factory, is another point at which the cracks kind of show, I think, in the production. Buddy and his son couldn’t be more happy about it. They’re pretty thrilled about the whole thing. His son gets a wants to get one of these masks, and he and and mister Cochran says, oh, I was going to give you one, but not one of these.   They haven’t been through final processing yet, and they’re like, oh okay, and so he pulls out a mask that is actually all wrapped up and ready to go and hands it to, his son. And suddenly, final processing becomes something that everybody’s curious about. Mhmm. You know, Buddy asked, well, well, tell me a little bit of, you know, what happens during final processing and and, cut mister Cochran’s very coy. Well, you know, it’s it’s a trade secret. And as they’re walking, they’re they’re they end up at the spot where there’s a door to the final processing, and it’s, clearly more guarded. It’s a little more secure. And, you know, Buddy’s like, well, can can you take me in? Can you show me some of that? And he’s like, oh, there are hazardous chemicals involved in doing that.   I I can’t take you in there. And you’re like, what? Final processing for Halloween, man? Right. Like like, first of all, I mean, why would that comment not just go right by you? You know? They haven’t been through final process. Okay. Yeah. Sure. You gotta, you know, bag them up or something. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  It’s just so goofball that they make such a big deal out of this. Just lays it on with a hammer, man. And of course, that gets, Dan, very interested in checking out final processing. 

Craig:  Yeah. He comes back later. Dan goes to try to call, Teddy again, I think, or for he has to run on some errand to get him away from Ellie, so that Ellie can be abducted. And then Ellie’s abducted, we assume by the suits, and and the suits are pursuing Dan, but he’s able to get away and he makes it back to the factory. And that’s really, where the 3rd act plays out, and it’s really just disappointing on every level. Like, I don’t know. I mean, it just feels contrived. I mean, he gets in there, and he looks around. 

Todd:  Doctor. Well, he comes he opens the door in what seems to be kind of a really it’s one of those it’s such a non sequitur that is extremely creepy when he slowly opens a door into like a closet and there’s a woman just sitting there knitting. You’re like woah. To me, actually, that was the creepiest part of this whole movie was when he opens that door, and, and but it turns out it’s it’s it’s a robot. This is the first automaton or whatever that we that we run across, and he knocks it over or something, and the head comes off, and he ends up in this giant warehouse area with this giant stone and a bunch of, it’s a it’s a big empty space filled by 2 things. 

Craig:  Well, that that’s after he’s captured. Is that after he’s captured? 

Todd:  I thought he’s 

Craig:  gonna go on to the first 

Todd:  and they they found him there. 

Craig:  I don’t think well, maybe. I I feel like it was right after he broke that one robot that he they another one of the suits finds him, and he fights, the suit. And, like, when he’s punching him in the face, there’s there’s, like, no reaction at all. Eventually, they get down on the ground and he’s punching him in the abdomen, and he notices stuff starting to come out of the guy’s mouth. It looks like egg yolk, is coming out of the guy’s mouth. And he looks down and realizes that he has actually punched into this guy’s abdomen and all that yellow stuff is oozing out like wires and short circuit things are coming out. And that’s when Cochrane and a couple of other henchmen get him, and I feel like they take him into the processing room. It’s it’s one of those things where, oh, okay.   Now we’ve got you, so let’s tell you the master plan. 

Todd:  Yeah. You know, like It’s   so dumb. It’s James Bond. It’s James Bond villain territory we’re getting into now. But the problem is Dan is not even James Todd, like, he’s just to them another guy who’s poking around who’s in their way. So unlike all of the other people who’ve been killed immediately, if just at the suggestion that they could find something, here’s the guy who actually broke into their factory, who’s looking at all this stuff and they’re not just gonna kill him Todd. They’re gonna they’re gonna hang out with them for a while. 

Craig:  Show them their tricks. 

Todd:  I mean, we’ve spent a lot of time with Dan, so we have kind of a connection with him, and we know where he comes from, but none of these guys should, except for maybe Cochran who there’s the idea that at least since they came into town, they’ve been monitored, and so he he calls him immediately by name and says, or should I say doctor or whatever. So he’s obviously done a little bit of digging on him, but yeah, why they don’t just kill him off right like they’ve been doing with everybody else is is pretty ridiculous. 

Craig:  Yeah. Instead instead, he just he he lays out the plan. There we see this huge stone, hinge stone. He’s like, it was kind of a it was kinda hard to steal it, but we managed. 

Todd:  Like, you know, like, this huge 

Craig:  5 ton thing that, you know, there’s no way anybody could just walk away with. And then, oh, yeah. We just shipped it over here. Okay. That that would have been a better story. 

Todd:  The movie I wanna see is the movie where they explain how somebody stole a stone from Stonehenge and shipped it across to America completely. 

Craig:  Right. Right. And and by this time, it is Halloween, And, of course, Dan inquires about Ellie, and and they show on, like, a security camera. They show him she’s there. She’s still alive. She’s strapped down to a table somewhere in that facility. But then he says, you need to see an illustration. That’s what you need to see.   And we cut to the scene where the the family, the cup first, father, son, and mother, are being, led into this room that’s just a room in this compound, but it’s mocked up to look like, a family room. And they’re locked in there, and, the dad thinks that he’s supposed to be, like, reviewing advertising or something, giving his advice for advertising. The television comes on, and it’s that commercial again, but this time it’s it’s it’s the, I guess, the demo of, what’s actually going to air later on this night because it’s already Halloween. 

Todd:  Halloween. It’s time. It’s time. Time for the No. This is just the same old style. In this car. All you lucky kids with silver Shamrock masks, gather round your TV set, put on your masks, and watch. Honey, 

Craig:  don’t get too close. You’ll throw in your eyes. 

Todd:  Jack o’-lantern. 

Craig:  At some point, little buddy grabs his face and starts kind of grabbing at his face and goes down to his knees to the floor, and we see that the mask is kind of deteriorating in some way. And when he falls all the way to the floor, it continues to deteriorate and bugs, tons and tons of bugs Todd pouring out from where his head should be, but presumably is no longer. And and the the parents, of course, freak out. The mother, I think we’re supposed to think that she just drops dead, I guess, Cause I didn’t see anything really happen to her. Doctor. Out of fright or something? Doctor. The dad, yeah, I guess. The dad, is bitten by a rattlesnake that has come out of the kid’s head.   So now we see what the big plan is, and then we get to this montage shot, which really, I think this was my favorite scene of the movie. Even though you’re right, I agree with you that it’s silly that all of these kids would be wearing the same masks. But it’s this scene of the masks just flying off the shelves and all the kids getting ready for Halloween and going out and trick or treating. And there’s just some interesting visuals with the kids’ silhouette set against the setting sun and, just the excitement of Halloween. And that was I I liked that scene, before we come back to the the factory for the for the final act. 

Todd:  Dan is captured. Ellie has been taken off to a room, which we can kind of see in a, like, a security camera around this. I guess the best thing I could say is it’s like a digital workstation that’s in the same area as the Stonehenge. Now, which really begs the question, what are they working on? Okay. They they’ve shipped all these masks. It’s Halloween night. They couldn’t possibly ship anymore because the broadcast is going on in a few hours. And at first when I watched this, I thought well maybe this is a they live kind of situation where maybe the actual Halloween broadcast is is beaming out from the factory, you know, to the networks or something.   So they’re they have ultimate control, or maybe their technology requires that, you know, to activate the the commercial and whatnot. But no, it’s just the networks that are playing what was sent to them. So what they’re doing at this workstation boggles my mind. Like what are what is the business they’re so involved in here, where Cochran’s still taking calls? You know, what is his endgame through this whole thing? You’re wondering what Todd he want to do? And so he says to Dan, he says, Halloween,   The festival of Samhain. The last great one took place 3000 years ago when the hills ran wrecked with the blood of animals and children. Sacrifices is a part of our world. Our craft, witchcraft. To us, it was a way of controlling our environment. It’s not so different now. It’s time again. So at   the end of the day, he has to, I guess, restore balance to the universe in some in some way shape 

Craig:  with the sacrifice 

Todd:  with the sacrifice of all the kids. Now this is still going to happen. Okay? So not every kid’s gonna throw on a mask. I mean, the plan just has a 1,000,000,000 holes in it. The kids have to watch the the TV thing while they’re doing the mask. I guess this is only taking place in North America right now in America, so the rest of the world 

Craig:  Here’s that. Right? 

Todd:  Yeah, is going to be is not going to be affected. So by the end of the day, it’s gonna be pretty obvious to the people who were not killed what’s going on, something with these masks. So if I were Mr. Cochrane, unless I had a death wish, I’d be getting the heck out of dodge by now. The factory would have been closed, we’d be gone, we wouldn’t be here fielding phone calls and doing some nebulous work because there’s nothing more to work on. There’s nothing to further here, right? Yeah. So he kills all these kids in this very odd and oblique way, may or may not get their adults, and now everyone’s gonna descend on this factory after that, and then what happens? Right? Who’s gonna be around to to do the sacrifice next time? It’s just it’s just a bizarre weird plan, and I like the idea. You know, I’ve always been a fan of Yeah.   Putting horror in a what what we think of as as a sanitized environment, you know, corporate culture. It seems very businesslike and stoic, and to have a horror come out of that, It’s why I really want to like this movie. I mean, I’ve seen it 3 or 4 times. Every time I turn it on I think, this is the time I’m gonna really enjoy it, and and it never happens. I I almost   Yeah.   Dislike it more every time I watch it. 

Craig:  That’s funny. Yeah. I I mean, I I I don’t know. I’ll I’ll tell you how I feel about it overall here at the end, but, basically 

Todd:  he even fields a phone call from one of the guys, and it sounds so Google.   Tonight’s just for fun, a way of saying thank you to all our good customers. 43 share. You think so? Good. And I hope the little ones will be watching.   The little ones, your broadcast goes on at 10 o’clock PM, and you’re showing Halloween. You’re showing Halloween a slasher film. How many little ones are gonna be are gonna be staying up to watch this film that they’re 

Craig:  That’s yeah. It’s a it’s a good point. It it doesn’t I don’t know. I mean, he’s mentioned, like, it was mentioned several times that he’s not taking any orders for next year. So apparently, he has no plans of still being around or being in business for next year. So maybe he’s planning on fleeing back to the old country or something. I don’t know. 

Todd:  Well, he better do it soon. 

Craig:  Doesn’t really make any sense. Yeah. Right. The the funny, the funny thing is when Cochran asks him why he’s doing it before he explains all that old world backstory, the first thing he says is, well, I have always liked a good prank. 

Todd:  Like Oh, yeah. 

Craig:  This is this is one heck of a prank you got going on here. 

Todd:  It’s a goofball. It’s it’s it’s yeah. Yeah. 

Craig:  It’s Robin Williams. The trickster are you 

Todd:  right there. 

Craig:  But, again, he makes the James Bond villain mistake of not just killing, Dan, but saying, I’ll set you up with a death trap and leave you alone. So he he ties him up and puts the TV on and puts a mask on him, which Dan immediately escapes from. And then Dan is, like, sneaking around, he tries to call his wife for his ex wife to tell her to not let the kids wear the masks, but she’s mad at him, so she just kinda hangs up on him. Then he finds Ellie, and the 2 of them are sneaking around undetected. They’re, like, crouching behind this box. And I guess sticking out of the box is one of those logos that are sewn onto the back of the masks, and he knows what those do. So he, in a really goofball scene that doesn’t make any sense, sneaks right into the middle of this workstation, this circle of computers, where everybody is standing right out in the open. You know, the the main bad guy is standing right there, all of the robot henchmen are standing right there, but nobody sees him as he goes up and puts in the correct code to start the sequence for this, video to play that’s supposed to trigger these these logos.   How did he know what the code was? It doesn’t even make any sense. 

Todd:  I think 

Craig:  I guess maybe he was paying really close attention when he got the demonstration. I think that whatever stupid. 

Todd:  No. It doesn’t make sense. Like, no. No. There are a 1000000000 buttons on that thing. 

Craig:  Right. So he he he sets the code in motion totally undetected, walks away totally undetected. He and Ellie go up into the scaffolding above all of this, and as the video starts playing and we see that trigger, you know, the flashing, pumpkin, he dumps all of these, metal, symbols into that workstation where all the henchmen are and it just works. Like they start going off and it kills all of the robots and they’re just kinda standing up there, and Cochran looks up at him. And does he 

Todd:  give him a thumbs up or, like, clap his hands 

Craig:  or something like, oh, you got me? Mhmm. 

Todd:  Yeah. It’s like, well played, sir. 

Craig:  Right. Right. And then the the Stonehenge rock starts glowing like crazy, and it shoots out of, like, a beam between the workstation and Stonehenge, 

Todd:  goes into Cochrane, and he 

Craig:  is just totally disintegrated or transformed or something, but he’s out of the picture, which you would think would be the end of the movie, kind of, because I wasn’t thinking like you. You know, I wasn’t thinking about this in a historical context. When I saw them all around the, workstation, I was still in the mindset of our current day where they were preparing to broadcast themselves. But you’re absolutely right. That wouldn’t make any sense. They would have just sent a tape to the various news stations. And in fact, it appears that’s what they did because they get out of there and Dan’s like, oh my gosh, we have to call somebody, we have to get out of here. And, he looks over at Ellie and she’s sitting there blank faced, and it’s totally obvious before it’s even revealed that they have replaced her with a robot version of herself, presumably killed her and replaced her with the robot.   And she attacks Dan in the car. They get in a car wreck. There’s a really goofy scene where she keeps getting dismembered, and the dismembered parts of her body keep attacking in these really lame jump scares. But eventually, he gets to that same gas station where the original guy from the very beginning had ended up, and he calls. Like, I guess he’s just got the number of the network president. And he calls and he’s like, Take it off 

Todd:  the air, take it off the air. 

Craig:  I can’t explain but you have to take it off. And it starts playing and like just at that moment, these little kids in the masks pull up, like their family had just pulled in here. And they run up to the TV and they’re watching, And it starts, but then the the station goes out, and it says, we’re experiencing technical difficulties. But the kid just reaches out and turns to another network, and it’s still playing there. And, then it goes out and said, we’re experiencing technical difficulties. Kid turns the channel again, still playing on a different network, and this one doesn’t go out. And the movie ends with Dan shouting, stop it. Stop it.   Stop it. As we see the trigger, the the flashing jack o’-lantern on the screen, and then it just cuts to black and goes to the theme music. I read that originally, the ending that they recorded, when it went to black, it didn’t cut to the theme music. Instead, it was the sound of thousands of children screaming, indicating that they were dying these agonizing deaths, and that the plan had actually ultimately worked. They changed it and cut that and just went to the theme music to make it a little bit more ambiguous. Did it work? Did it not? I actually think I would have preferred the original way they went. Yeah. At least I you know, that that would have been really dark and unexpected, and I would’ve preferred that even though I still get the suggestion that ultimately it worked.   But that’s it. That’s the end. You know? I don’t know. I don’t know. You know, if this were a standalone movie, if it had nothing to do with, the Halloween franchise at all, And I was gonna say if it was just titled season of the witch, which still wouldn’t really make any sense because there’s so little about witchcraft in it. I don’t know. I might cut it a little bit more slack. But the first the first Halloween movie was quite good.   The second one, but I still kind of had an expectation that these were gonna be quality films with people like John Carpenter behind it. I I expected a certain level of quality, and I just really didn’t think that this delivered. I I think that my biggest problem was with the writing. I didn’t think that the performances were terrible. The cinematography was nothing special, but it wasn’t awful. Some of the effects were pretty good, but the story was just rambling and didn’t make much sense. I like the concept. I I found myself thinking at some point, you know, this might have made a really interesting episode of The X Files. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  It it’s a it’s a good concept, and if they paired it down to 50 minutes and cut out all of the extra unnecessary stuff that really doesn’t make any sense or add anything to the movie, then it could have been something cool. But I just feel like they missed the mark. 

Todd:  Well, it’s a good concept poorly executed, and I say good concept with the idea that if they had executed it properly, they would fix all of the real dumb problems with what ultimately ends up coming across as a very silly plot. It it would be suited to a cartoon or something, because it’s so Burnet 

Craig:  sort of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I feel like that would have been a good form for it. Yeah. Which I’m a huge Buffy fan, so that’s not, you know, it’s not saying anything negative. But anyway 

Todd:  Well, and you have to think that some scenes had to have been ins you know, obviously, there are other factors at work here. I know that the director, Todd Lee Wallace, complained that or no, actually there was an original screenwriter who complained that his script was He was a pretty I don’t know I can’t I don’t have the name with me right now, but it was pretty accomplished science fiction author, and I think honestly, this movie is planted a little more firmly in the science fiction category than it is Mhmm. In horror. But, he was originally hired to do the script, and he did the script, and apparently, it left out a few of the things that ended up working their way into the movie, and he actually asked for his name to be taken off of the script. And so and and success off of the credits and successfully got that because Tommy Lee Wallace came in and apparently rewrote a lot, and apparently at the insistence of Todd studio, added some of the gory kills that we see. So that kind of makes sense how some of these seem shoehorned in there, like the goriest deaths and even really all the deaths that we see, except for the implied deaths of of millions of children, are pretty far spaced out for a for a horror film, and although they’re creative, they’re they’re few and far between really. We didn’t even mention the coroner’s death, which made the least sense of all. Mhmm.   And you talked about   Yeah. 

Craig:  It’s like we gotta we gotta tie up this loose end that was never important to begin with. 

Todd:  Never important to begin with. And it’s funny because she’s been sitting in front of these 3 Craig for for weeks, you know, day and night. And Yeah. I don’t know. It was like nothing changes, but suddenly, she looks at an at a piece in a different light or something and is like, oh my Todd, like like suddenly everything has become clear to her, and picks up the phone, but not before the henchman comes in and grabs a drill and offs her, which again doesn’t make any sense because this is Halloween night already. Why are you out there bothering to tie up any loose ends? It’s all going to resolve itself in an hour, which would suggest to me that maybe even all of the corner scenes were something that Todd inserted later that the studio was like, we need one more brutal killing in here, and they’re like, alright. Let’s hire this woman. Let’s shoot a few scenes.   Let’s throw her in. That’s that’s the only I can I can grant a little leeway to poor mister Tommy Lee Wallace, who feels like his film has been supremely misunderstood Todd who feels that, if this hadn’t been associated with the Halloween franchise, it would have found an audience faster, and I’m I I know you you maybe you feel a bit that way? I I disagree. I completely feel like even as a standalone film, I don’t care if it has Michael Myers in it or not. I think it’s a lousy movie, but maybe it serves a good purpose of being something everybody can make fun of when you’re sitting around, on Halloween day because we need those movies too. 

Craig:  Yeah. We we definitely do. Yeah. I agree with you. I mean, I despite the fact and and I think you said something about the original screenwriter being disappointed. If I remember correctly, I think that I read that he had concede it and wrote it as a horror comedy, and, the studio eliminated all of the comedy and put in more gore. Maybe there would’ve maybe I don’t know. It’s one of those things where we’ll never know, you know, what it was originally conceived as.   And and if we did, maybe that would have been something different and special. But whether it be due to the original just not being up Todd par or whether it be the studio tampering, you know, murdered any potential that it had, I don’t know. But I agree with you. It’s it’s it’s not good, and it’s not anything that I would ever feel like I needed to see again. 

Todd:  But, you know, it’s a shame really because we need it’s a shame that this kind of put an end to that whole idea of an anthology, you know, every year hearing a different Halloween themed movie because we need those. We really don’t still don’t have those. I mean, except for the fact that some horror films with sequels such as Saw, you know, we’ve mentioned that before, tended to release around Halloween, or the newest Blair Witch, or the newest paranormal activity. They’re they’re just horror movies that are released around Halloween time. I just watched finished watching trick or treat last night and I remember how awesome that was and and we need more movies like that to put us in that spirit. And this movie could have done that and didn’t and maybe the subsequent movies apparently they had a lot more planned apparently they they had ideas left and right for future films in this kind of a series and they ended up going back to michael meyers because of the Mhmm. Because the failure of this one. It’s a it’s a shame. 

Craig:  Yeah. I agree. I I would have loved to have seen where it could have gone, And, you know, maybe someday we’ll get something like that. It seems like anthology horror is really coming back into the mainstream. It’s it’s it’s on TV a lot now. So maybe we’ll start to see that, in in film too, and I certainly hope so. 

Todd:  Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend. You can find us on iTunes and Stitcher, also on Google Music now.   They are doing podcasts. You can   find us also online. Shoot us a podcasts. You can find us also online. Shoot us a message at our Facebook page, our social media. We’d love to hear your comments, what you thought of the film, and of course, any suggestions for future films. Until our future episodes, I’m Todd and I’m Craig with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

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