When Evil Lurks (2023)

Episode #455, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, today it’s request time. It’s been a little while since we’ve done a request, so we decided to put a pause in the tribute episodes. It was almost like tribute month there for a while, but lots of fun. Uh, good, good to find an excuse to do movies we wouldn’t otherwise do, and I feel like the requests are perfect fodder for that as well.

So, as usual, one of the benefits of being a patron of. Our podcast is that our patrons get to vote on our requests. We keep our requests in a long list, and then we pull up three that we would be interested in doing. Try to kind of match them a little bit and style and tone or whatnot, and throw them up to our patrons and decide which one’s the winner.

And this time they chose a more modern movie than we’ve been doing lately. 2023’s When Evil Lurks, which I saw the poster constantly on almost every streaming service I belong to. It was like a red poster, a silhouette of a person standing in field with, with an ax pointed at their own head, and I actually did manage to watch it.

I think last year, Liz and I watched it, we really, we really enjoyed it. We were very unsettled by it, so I was kind of happy to see them vote on this one because I was gonna eventually propose that we, that we do this, we’ve, we had several requests for it, so very happy to fulfill this one. Thank you so much, patrons, and to those of you who requested it.

So yeah, I’ve seen the movie. How about you? Had you seen this? 

Craig: No, I remember reading about it when it was coming out a just vaguely I remember the title. And then just a couple of weeks ago in book club, our friend Trish said that she had recently seen it and, and really enjoyed it. And that was right before you put it up in the poll, but I hadn’t seen it.

I imagine the reason that I probably hadn’t seen it was because. It’s not in English. I’ve gotten really lazy about that. You shy away. Yeah, I know. When we first started doing the podcast 10 years ago and we would do foreign films, I would. You know, be like, you’ve gotta watch it in the original language and you’ve gotta watch it with the subtitles.

’cause the performances are just different. If you watch it with the dub. I don’t know what has changed in me, but if there’s a dub available, I’m watching the dub. I really think it’s because it’s not just me, but kind of as a. Society and as a culture, we’re so, like, our attention is so limited. So I have to have two or three screens in front of me all the time.

And when I’m so, so if I’m watching something that’s in a foreign language and I have to read the subtitles, that takes away from me looking at my phone and looking at the other screen that’s on, and I just, I can’t, so. But on shutter, which is where I watched it, there wasn’t a dub available. So I did watch it in the original language and I was reminded the poor guy the it.

No, it really does make a difference like the, uh, the original performance with the original actor’s voices. I really do think it makes a difference. Sure. So it just kind of depends on how much you care, I guess. And for this movie. Which I think, oh, I have really mixed feelings about it. It’s one of those movies that’s hard to say, Ooh, I liked it.

Todd: Right. Or else we think you’re a freak. 

Craig: I know. But I do think that it is a really, really well made movie and something totally worth seeing because it’s original and scary. Oh yeah. I. Seen a movie that I was as scared by in a long time. 

Todd: I concur, by the way, I am not a multiple screen guy. I’m a multiple screen guy in some ways, but not when I watch movies.

I’m very much a purist. I will never watch a movie and have another screen open except like I have to take notes nowadays when we watch these movies. Mm-hmm. So I do have my laptop open ’cause it’s a little easier. I really don’t care for it when other people in the room are not paying as much attention to the movie as I’m Oh, I know.

It’s 

Craig: annoying. 

Todd: Yeah. You know, so, so, yeah. But, but I, I gotta say like, as far as the language and stuff goes, although I agree with you as far as. It really is better to watch it in its original language if you can, as a guy who dubs films and TV shows and cartoons and things for a living, I can’t shoot you down for it.

Yeah, 

Craig: no, I get it. 

Todd: You’re can enjoy someone else’s work. You know, it’s just like large print books and audio books and things. I’m really not a fan of audio books either, to be honest. Like I would much, much, much rather read something than have it read to me. But if I’m on a long car ride, I will definitely put in an audio book and, and love it to pieces.

So just depends on the scenario. Yeah, I agree with you, dude. Scary movie. The second time I watched it, I knew what was happening, so obviously it, it lost a lot of that impact. But I remember the first time around watching it, it’s like, man, when this movie picks up, it does not let go. Oh my, my 

Craig: gosh, I know it’s an hour and 40 minutes long, but like, I kept checking the timestamp just to see how much time had gone by, and every time it would’ve been like 20 minutes and it felt like five.

This? Yeah. This movie feels like it goes by so fast, which is rare and I love it. 

Todd: Just yesterday I was watching some clip, I think it was on Instagram, but it was Trey Parker and Matt Stone. They were talking about their south park writing process to a group of kids, I think in a, like a writing class or something, and they were outlining it.

And they were saying that really the key that they learned, and this is common advice for when you’re putting together a story, is that. So you, you, you have a scene and then this happens, and then this happens. He’s like, that’s not what you want. You want a scene and therefore this happens. But this happened, so like.

Each scene like leads to a consequence that causes the next scene to happen. You know what I mean? Sure. If you’re just grouping a bunch of scenes together where things happen, but there’s no flow, new natural story flow from one to the other, it just, it just gets boring real fast. And so to keep things like motivated and I thought, gosh, this movie was written entirely like that.

There’s not a scene that doesn’t just delete directly into the next scene because of something that happened in that previous scene. It’s just consequence after consequence, after consequence, right, of people making increasingly poor choices repeatedly to the point where you are screaming at the screen.

Will you just listen to the person who’s telling you what to do? You know what to do and you’re not doing it anyway. And that’s why all this shit is your fault. 

Craig: Well, and it, and it just feels like there’s no filler and there’s no, let’s take a five minute break for some heavy exposition. Like it just moves.

Frantic isn’t the right word, because it doesn’t seem, it seems very purposeful. It seems very purposeful, and they know what they’re doing. It doesn’t seem frantic, but it’s a frantic pace because what’s happening to them is happening at. Such a rapid pace. Uh, it’s wild and urgently. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Super, super urgent.

Todd: And I’ve never seen a concept like this before. I think, I mean, at least not played out in this way. This is more or less a possession movie, but it has its own rules. Have you 

Craig: ever seen those Jason Statham movies where like, he has to like, keep his heart rate super, super high or else he’ll die, or something like that?

Todd: Oh yeah. This is kind of like that. 

Craig: I, I, well, I’ve never seen those, but that’s kind of what I would imagine. Like it’s just gotta keep moving, moving. But it also, it doesn’t seem forced, it feels very natural. I, the movie is such that I am so invested in these characters and what they’re going through, that I am on the edge of my seat.

Ugh. It is wild. 

Todd: It has its slow mo. I mean, any movie that is just breakneck pace from beginning to end, it’s hard to sustain an interest. And this is why like ev every Transformers movie after the first one, I just, I just get bored after watching. I just can’t watch an hour and a half long fight scene.

You know, something’s gotta give this movie, let’s not give the totally wrong impression. It does move at a breakneck pace, but there are moments where they get a break. However, it’s still, the pressure is still on. Yeah, there’s still an urgency there that keeps that pressure going in a different way. 

Craig: Well, and in those moments it slows down and it quiets down for a minute, but like you said, everything is still so urgent and it’s still so emotionally charged and yeah, you’re still getting.

New information, like the story is still moving along. It’s not like the story takes a break, right? Like things are still happening. We still need to keep it moving. It’s just, there are some natural moments where we’ve got a second to kind of process this a little bit, but it’s also impossible to process.

So it still feels, uh, I was just, oh man, I found this to be like a, an emotional rollercoaster. I had such sympathy for the main characters and I was. Shocked. I was frankly shocked. The movie doesn’t pull any punches, and that’s one of the things that I like most about it. It doesn’t pull any punches at all.

And there were some things, one in particular that comes fairly early in the movie, so we’ll talk about it soon. There was one thing that. Was so projected. I saw it coming a million miles away and I was like, no. Certainly not. Certainly not. Oh, then it happened. They were toying 

Todd: with you. 

Craig: They were toying with you.

Oh boy. Oh boy. Anyway, we should get into talking about what it’s about or unless you have more back stuff that I don’t know about. ’cause I don’t really know a lot. Of backstory about this. 

Todd: Uh, it’s an Argentinian movie. I guess that needs to be said. You know, it’s, it’s in Spanish. It’s, that’s really about it.

I just read, you know, the writer director, Damian Ruga, I think is how you pronounce it. Uhhuh, uh, he’s done several films before this. Uh, he seems to gravitate towards horror a bit or, or thrillers. This is a strong film. It was on all, a lot of the streaming services. I don’t know where it got its theatrical release.

Uh, if it did, 

Craig: I don’t know if it did or not. It’s a shutter production. 

Todd: Yeah, probably not then. But, um, he got the idea for it because he was thinking about bureaucracy and he was also thinking about environmentalism and just kind of like what happens when we have rules, but we don’t follow them. You know, if nobody’s following the rules that are established, like what happens?

And I think from that seed of an idea and a few other things that he kind of tossed in there as inspiration, he came up with this, this, I think, like I said, I think it’s a pretty unique narrative, honestly. I mean, it’s a possession story, but. You know, 

Craig: you said something about environmentalism. I think that he had heard stories about pesticides being used in rural communities in unethical ways, and how that was affecting entire communities in negative ways, 

Todd: government corruption.

Craig: Yeah, and this movie is interesting. I don’t know, this is kind of a broad statement. I don’t know if it’s entirely fair, but you don’t really see a ton of movies about these kind of small, rural communities and how everybody kind of knows each other and everybody’s lives are a little bit intertwined. And beyond that, they also kind of rely on one another.

And I thought that that was, I, I liked the kind of. It’s not entirely intimate. There’s a lot of characters, but it’s it, it’s a small community where it kind of seems like everybody kind of is familiar with one another. Mm-hmm. And I found that interesting. And you know, it starts out with these two brothers, I don’t really understand.

I don’t know if this was lost in translation or if I wasn’t paying attention enough. They’re living together. On a farm, these two brothers, and they hear at night gunshots and go to check it out and find a dead guy who they don’t know. And not only is he dead, but he’s been ripped in half. And at first they think maybe it was a wild animal, like a a, a puma or something, but.

One of the brothers is like, no, he’s been sawed in half by something sharp. And they also find some like metal pieces. They look like pieces of something 

Todd: kind of contraption. Yeah. 

Craig: Right. But we don’t have any idea what that 

Todd: is. They’re speculating. They think it’s this guy named Ruiz, I believe. And. They also find a book nearby.

Craig: Yeah. Ruiz is their landlord, so they wonder if he has something to do with it, but then they also find some notebook or something. Mm-hmm. That has one of their neighbor’s name and address, this lady named Maria. And it’s got, and they say it’s in a language they don’t understand. They say maybe Russian or something, but they do see their neighbor’s name and address so they.

Go there. And when they get there, they’re like, we found this dead guy. And Maria is like, oh crap. We were waiting for that guy to come kill Uriel, who is her son? She takes them in to see him and he is. Disgusting. 

Todd: Yeah. God this was like straight outta seven, but 10 times more. That’s 

Craig: exactly what I was gonna say.

That’s so 

Todd: funny. We date ourselves, don’t we? 

Craig: Yeah. He’s big and fat and covered and just like in his underwear, which are all stained and disgusting and his 

Todd: green shit coming out of his mouth. Yeah, 

Craig: he’s, he’s covered in sores and just like oozing puss and sweat and piss and it is just disgusting. And his mom says.

He’s possessed. He’s been rotten for a long time. He’s been like that for over a year. Oh God. They’ve told the police about it. One of the brothers is like those damn police. They should have called for a cleaner sooner. It seems like everybody is kind of aware of what is happening here. Yeah. Like this is something that they’re aware of.

Correct. What do they call them? They call them the rotten or something like that. The rot, 

Todd: yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Craig: And if somebody is rotten, that means that they’re possessed. And apparently there’s some sort of, I don’t know, protocol there. There are people, there’s protocol. Yeah, there’s protocol. There’s people that come in and take care of it.

But apparently the protocol is important. 

Todd: Yeah. And everybody knows about it really. I, I think that’s part of the point of this whole deal. This is not a new discovery. This is not a case of where, you know, there’s some sinister force here that people have to wrestle to understand. They seem to understand it really well and there is a children’s song about it and there are seven rules later that we learned about Uhhuh.

And you know, she said they reported it to the cops. These guys go to the cops and the cops are just like. They’re just, again, I think, you know, this is police corruption. They’re, they’re just in, they just don’t care. Like they were slow. Yeah. They’re like, downplaying it. Oh, why are you in such a hurry? Blah, blah, blah, yada yada.

They’re like, you should have sent them a cleaner a year ago. 

Craig: Yeah. And when the brothers talk to Ruiz, the landlord, he says that it’s a setup like the, the state wants their land. So I don’t know if he thinks that they’re making this happen or just ignoring it so that people have to leave. I don’t know.

Todd: Oh, that could be, 

Craig: but he Ruiz goes to the place to kill the possessed guy, urial. But the mom says, don’t do it. It’ll just make everything worse. It will possess us. 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: And we find out later that that’s one of the rules. Like you can’t kill them. In fact, they talk about how like the rotten people. They are like a pre-stage before the demon is born right into the world.

Now, I’m not sure that I totally understand that, but we’re, it’s made clear that they’re not supposed to kill him because if they kill him, it will be even worse. 

Todd: You know, all this. Information has dripped out at us a little bit. You know, later on in the movie, as we meet one of these cleaners, grandma explains something to a child that they don’t understand and the whole mytho, I mean, there’s clearly hinting at a deeper mythology here that we really only touch on, but there’s something about this world where they said that church have failed and God is dead, and you know, then the demons unleashed.

But then there were these people, these cleaners, who could actually resist and come out and actually. Fix it, which we later learn is through the use somehow of these contraptions. Why? We honestly, we act, I don’t think we ever see one of these contraptions fully functioning, but we, we see them and we meet some cleaners and so we get a sense of this, and that’s really all we need.

Right barest minimum that this has been going on for a long time. It’s a worldwide problem, existential issue, and there are protocols and people in place to deal with it. As long as you follow the rules, you should be okay. And everybody supposed seems to have the rules drilled into them. And what happens here in the movies almost from the get go is that they stop following them just because people just are impatient or they want to.

Take the matters into their own hands. In this case, uh, Pedro is like, we, we need to move the body. And I don’t know where he thinks I, he just wants to get it outta there. Did he want to take it somewhere? I’m not even clear where he was hoping to move it to. 

Craig: He, well, he and the brother said something about they were gonna leave, but Ruiz, it’s his land.

Like he doesn’t wanna just leave. So he says, let’s just get it. They can’t kill it. ’cause then it will possess more. People or things or whatever. So they’re like, let’s just take it far, far away. I think they just think if they take it far, far away, that that will remove the problem. And so they do. They load him up in the back of a truck in a disgusting.

Procedure, like the, the, the effects in this movie are insane. Oh yeah. They’re, they’re really good, but it’s really gory and this part is really disgusting. Like they’re, they’re carrying him in like a sheet and they show it a close shot from underneath and it’s like oozing puss and it’s disgusting. So, 

Todd: yeah.

I’m surprised they could lift that guy. 

Craig: Oh, I know. He was huge. And he rips through the sheet at some point and they have to put him on a another plate. But they get him in the back, in the bed of the truck and they drive him hundreds of kilometers away. I don’t know what that means in miles ’cause I’m a stupid American, but far away, 

Todd: like 50 or something.

I don’t know. 

Craig: But, but at, so, but at some point somebody like walks in front of him in the road and they have to veer really hard to avoid hitting this kid. Yeah. And they keep driving and when they feel like they’ve gotten far enough away, they. Stop to pull the body out and throw it out and it’s not in there anymore, and they’re like, oh crap.

It must have fallen out when we veered to not hit that kid. Now I don’t understand this. 

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: because that truck bed, not only was the hatch closed. But it had a tarp on the top. How did that huge fat guy fall out? 

Todd: You’re right, the hatch was closed. In my mind, I was thinking it was open, but it, it popped open, I guess because when they go back to check, the hatch is open.

Okay. But yeah. How in the world did that guy, all they did was swerve, you know, there, and that thing was heavy. 

Craig: That was a 300 pound guy. Easy. 

Todd: To be fair, he was pretty juicy. So, you know, yeah. Sliding around. He might have been greasy enough to slide right out. The thing that, the thing that like threw me.

Was he almost instantly looks behind in the rear view mirror and we see the kid like, pick up his bike and go off the road. There’s no sign of that guy on the road? No. So if he slid off, and I mean obviously he did, he must have rolled immediately into the ditch or something within seconds, so, eh. It’s a little sloppy.

I think this bit, this bit here, but we were supposed to not notice, 

Craig: right? 

Todd: Or whatever. Right. 

Craig: We’re we’re supposed to kind of not notice. And then at this point, if you want the experience of the movie, forget about that. That’s over. We’ll come back to it later, but it’s, forget about it so we can talk about it later.

Okay. So they go back home and immediately, like it never slows down immediately. Ruiz’s wife, his pregnant wife comes. Running in the house and is like one of the goats is possessed and Ruiz runs out with his gun. And this is such a cool shot. Now, I heard that it was a nightmare for them to shoot, but there’s a whole herd of goats on one side of the fence and Ruiz and his wife on the other side of the fence.

And at first all the whole herd is just standing there looking at them. But then the wife points out the possessed one and Ruiz points his shotgun in the air and fires. All of the goats run except that one, and he points the rifle at the goat and it walks up and puts its forehead right against the barrel of the gun.

It’s tempting him. Yeah. But, but that’s it. Once that like. 

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: we, we come to find out later, you’re not supposed to kill them at all, I think, but specifically, you’re not supposed to use guns. Like that’s one of the rules. 

Todd: Yeah. That like makes the demon work much faster or something like that, or something.

I don’t know. But he does. He shoots it, right? Yeah. She’s begging him, she’s grabs an ax and starts approaching and I’m thinking like, you know, she’s like. Thinking we’re gonna axe the goat or something. And she’s like, don’t shoot it. Don’t shoot it. This, by the way, is the first of many times where a woman tells a man what not to to do and he does it anyway to bad consequences.

I have to feel that that’s a message of the movie or somehow as well. It’s like machismo thing, you know? That also is very prevalent and Latino Spanish culture as well. Yeah, he shoots it anyway. And just as fast as he shoots it, she acts as him in the face, in the side of the head. He falls down dead, and then she grabs that ex kneels on the ground and starts ax herself in the face.

Craig: Yeah. She’s like nine months pregnant. This is when I, I’m like, oh man, this movie is really gonna go there. 

Todd: Right at, 

Craig: at, at first, I, somebody had said something like, I think the, the big, the, the possessed guy had said something like that he was gonna possess the baby or something. I think that’s why they got out of Dodge, ah, in the first place.

But then when they got rid of him, I’m like, oh, okay, well that pregnant lady’s gonna be okay. No. Then she just totally acts as herself in the face. And this is the first time that I looked at the timestamp stamp and I was blown away to find out that we were a half an hour in. Really, it felt like we had, I had been watching for like 10 minutes.

Todd: Oh my gosh, I’m even shocked. I mean, I didn’t look at the timestamp at all, but like yeah, that felt like 10 minutes tops. Yeah. Wow. No half hour already. It’s shocking, and I mean, kudos to these guys. I do not think I’ve ever seen this in a movie, ever. A person asking themself, now I have a question for you, ’cause I’m unsure.

Did she get possessed by the goat or did she suddenly decide to take matters into her own hands to prevent them from getting possessed? 

Craig: No, I think she was possessed. Okay. I think that him killing, I don’t know. I don’t really know how this works. I, 

Todd: yeah. I 

Craig: think that we’re supposed to believe ’cause they have, if we’re going by what they’ve said, they would need to kill Uel to release it, but they didn’t.

Right. But now it almost seems like because he killed the goat that freed it to then possess her. Mm. I don’t, I, I don’t know if those. If that totally matches up, I don’t care. Who knows? I’m just in it at this point right now, we go back to the brothers at their house and the older, not older, the, there was like a teenage son who also lived with Maria and Uriel, and he shows up and he’s like.

My mom disappeared. Can I please stay here? He’s clearly scared and they don’t know what’s going on. They don’t know if he’s possessed or what’s going on, so they say that he can stay in the barn, but he has to leave it Dawn. And he says, turn off all the electric lights because the shadows from that light call the evil.

And at least at one or two points during the movie, we kind of see some shadow play. They don’t make too much of it, but we know it’s a thing. Hmm. But the next thing that happens is the brothers go to pick up Pedro’s. Pedro is the older one. I think he’s got a beard. Mm-hmm. I don’t know. That makes him older to me.

Yep. They’re gonna go pick up his kids in town and get out. Apparently he is divorced from his wife. His wife has custody of the kids. They have two boys, an older teenage boy who has autism and a younger boy, I would guess like, I don’t know, eight. And then the wife and her new husband have a child, also a daughter, Vicki.

Yep. So they. Go to get him and Oh man, the wife’s dog comes out and sniffs. Okay, so Pedro’s like, I gotta get outta these clothes. I gotta, it, it’s like he thinks the essence of evil is on his clothes or something. Yeah. Yeah. ’cause it turns out that’s one of the rules. So he takes off all of his clothes and, and like cleans himself off or whatever, but he just throws the clothes in a pile on the floor.

And this big. Mastiff, I think dog. A huge dog is sniffing at the clothes. And as soon as that happened, I was like, oh. Fuck. 

Todd: Right. It’s, it’s so irritating too, because this guy is so concerned about these clothes. He’s just doing this in the worst place. Like he comes inside, takes them off in the living room where they could, A kid could wander into him.

Yeah. You know, the dog does. They’re not even paying attention. Like the dog goes over a couple times and it’s like practically fishing his nose through those clothes, and they don’t even seem to. Like they’re just not in the game. You know? This is supposed to be serious business and I’m just already frustrated at this guy.

So anyway, you’re right. The dog leaves well and goes and sits and the 

Craig: kids goes and sits in the living room and is just kind of watching them and the kids are walking all around it. And then this is a huge dog. Like it. Yeah, I think it’s a, I think it’s a mastiff, but it also looks like the calmest.

Friendliest dog. Mm-hmm. And it, these it, I mean, it’s a movie. It’s acting, obviously, I’m sure this is a trained dog, but it looks as though these children are perfectly comfortable around the dog and it’s perfectly comfortable around them. And the little girl, it’s as big as she is. She goes and stands next to it and they are the same.

It’s sitting and they’re the same height. It’s a huge dog. And I was just waiting, you know, the adults are kind of yelling at each other. And they cut back to the dog, right next to the little girl in her pajamas and fast as lightning. That dog just bites, like, just grabs her head in its jaws 

Todd: Oh, 

Craig: and, and runs off with her.

Todd: That was insane. 

Craig: And the little boy is watching and comes downstairs and looks under the table to see the dog shaking this little girl like prey. Oh man. And, and this was the point where I was like, wow, they’re going there. This movie? Yeah, this movie is not gonna pull any punches because that was brutal.

And you rarely see that kind of. Graphic brutal violence against children. And to be fair, it’s very fast. They don’t linger on it, but you see it and it’s very violent. 

Todd: I mean, it’s almost worse. Yeah. I mean at this point they’ve really established they will go anywhere. So you know that nobody is safe.

You’re not following these rules of cinema where, you know, innocent girls and children or whatever pregnant ladies are, uh, are spared. No, we very quickly established pregnant ladies and children are not safe. Neither are dogs. For that matter, nobody’s safe. Right? And I mean, the suspense in that scene was insane.

You know what’s happening? You see that dog sitting there and one by one the children are coming to pet, the dog and the scene’s shot from behind the dog. The kids are in silhouette. Then we get it in the front and I’m just on the edge of my seat going, oh my God, please don’t, you’re not going to really, the dogs aren’t gonna attack the kids, right?

Like there’s no way it’s gonna leap out at the adults or something like that. And the movie is deliciously toying with you. Right at this moment. So smart cinematography in this movie is really good. Yeah, it’s very good. One thing that makes it so good is it’s practically invisible. You know, everything is very steady cam and it’s shot around them, and it’s very utilitarian in a good way.

Like we can always see everything we need to see, but the camera’s very dynamic. It’s always moving around them. You really sort of feel like you’re in the middle of the action. I wouldn’t say it’s documentary style because you know, no, that would no. That would be like shaky cam and zooms and things. No, this is just very, very fluid, nice filmmaking with these well set up shots and quite a few really long shots in this, where the camera doesn’t cut away for a while.

Really keeps you in there. And 

Craig: I 

Todd: was 

Craig: just gonna say, it’s, it’s like you said it, you know, it’s, it’s not a lot of movement in the, in the cinematography, but it, it just seems like things are framed very well. I don’t know. I, I was very impressed by the, the technical elements of the filmmaking. I thought it looked.

Fantastic. 

Todd: Oh yeah. 

Craig: Um, throughout, I thought it was, the lighting was great. Everything looked really, really good. Man, that dog, that dog runs off with the girl in his mouth. Yeah. And like runs through the town and the girl’s dad. Who, you know, it’s not like he’s a bad guy or anything. We don’t have any problem with him.

He just happens to be the new husband. He runs off chasing it, looking for it. He’s frantic. It all feels very, I think maybe this is what I was trying to get at with the whole rural community thing too. It, it all feels very real. Yeah. It feels like these people know each other. Pedro, our, our main guy and the wife’s new husband, they don’t seem like they really have any beef, you know, like, no.

I mean, no, they don’t. This is just, you know, the situation that they’re in and, and like the, the new guy is like, please help me find my daughter. And Pedro is like, whatever you do, don’t kill the dog. Don’t kill the dog. But of course, when. New husband finds the dog, he shoots it. But then and again, you’re not supposed to do that.

We haven’t been told that explicitly yet. We will be soon, but you’re not supposed to do that. But then the next thing we see is the daughter comes home and she’s fine. Yeah. Which is. Impossible. Yeah. Based on what we have seen, this is impossible. 

Todd: Well, and come to think of it based on what we see later, it also is impossible.

Like she has no scars, no anything on her face. Whereas, correct me if I’m wrong, everybody else who sort of comes back from being attacked has all their injuries and they’re, they’re kind of messed up. This was a weird bit for me. I’m not sure what to make of it 

Craig: for whatever reason. I am okay in this movie.

I’m critical of it in other movies, but I’m kind of okay in this movie with the rules being a tiny bit nebulous, 

Todd: right? 

Craig: I’m okay that she ca like this is some kind of evil demon. I, I don’t know what it’s capable of, 

Todd: right. I’m just talking about consistency. 

Craig: No, I, I, no, I agree with you. And in, in another movie I would criticize it, but I’m so invested in this and I’m so, like, I don’t, I don’t know what’s going on.

It’s creepy. I’m not, I’m not sure exactly how it works, and that makes it even creepier to me that I, that I don’t. Quite fully understand it. 

Todd: Well, part of the reason for that could also be very like practical. Uh, from my understanding, they weren’t, I mean, they were shooting with kid actors in these violent situations.

There were rules they had to follow and one of them apparently was a restriction that they couldn’t have any bit of fake blood on the kid’s bare skin. 

Craig: Huh. 

Todd: So maybe that was a re, you know. They couldn’t do makeup on her face, so they just decided we’re just not gonna do it. 

Craig: Yeah. It it, it’s spooky and, and it’s not like she’s acting spooky.

She’s acting like a kid, but based on what we have just seen it, it doesn’t match what Yeah. You know, she, she’s not acting scared. She’s smiling and, and she leans in and whispers to her mom, dad will kill you. And I think she says something like, he’ll come in the truck and then pop. And then that happens.

Yes. Boom. The dad comes. Yeah, the dad comes roaring in in his big truck and just nails the mom up against. The house. 

Todd: That’s shocking. And Pedro is in the meanwhile running inside the house and we see for the first time that he has this other son who’s a special needs boy. He’s older and seems like, he says he’s autistic.

Is that Yeah. Is that what they, yeah. Mm-hmm. So he’s autistic and he’s. Not high functioning, so, uh Right. You know, he’s, he’s, he’s getting him up out of bed. He’s, uh, trying to get him outta there. He’s getting his other son. They’re going downstairs, of course. Vicki’s back. She smashes into the car and they go into their own car and he starts to back out.

Huh. Interestingly. Is this the point in which the boyfriend wakes up in the car and you can kind of see he looks a bit possessed himself. He turns to the right and he sees Vicki who is dancing. Like the best thing that could ever happen has just happened, just dancing around. With glee. That was creepy.

Craig: It’s, it’s, yeah, it’s a little pet cemetery vibes. 

Todd: Oh, that’s true. Yeah. And I’m, I’m 

Craig: cool with that. But yeah, the Pedro and the brother get the boys into the car and they leave and they go to pick up their mom, and, and their plan is they’re gonna get the mom and then they’re all just gonna get outta there.

Like they, I think they think that they can run away. From it. And the grandma, they get the grandma, she’s super nice. She clearly loves her grandsons very much. She’s concerned. She doesn’t know what’s going on, but she’s also kind of chill ’cause she doesn’t really know what’s going on. Mm-hmm. Um, and even when they tell her, you know, there’s, there’s a rotten in town, it’s almost like she thinks that it’s.

Lore. Like she, she’s aware of the lore, but she doesn’t, maybe, doesn’t really believe it or, or whatever. Or maybe 

Todd: she just has this trust that it’s manageable and not, not a big concern of theirs. I don’t know. 

Craig: But the grandson, the grandson asks her about it, and this is when she, this would be the only place where I would say that there was some.

Exposition, but it goes by so quickly that it, it doesn’t, it didn’t interfere with the pacing to me, but she explains that there are seven rules, no electric lights, which we’ve already heard once. Stay away from animals. Obviously don’t take stuff that was close to somebody who is possessed. We’ve seen that with the clothes and stuff.

Don’t hurt them. Don’t shoot them and never call Evil by its name. And the kid’s like Evil has a name. She’s like, oh yeah, there’s tons of evil names. Like Asrael and Bales above. Like she just starts off all, yeah. Like maybe not lady, but Okay. But I noticed at this point that there were. Only, she only said six and and maybe the grandson calls that out too.

I, but yep. She doesn’t say the seventh one at this point. The seventh one comes out later. 

Todd: That was smart too. What a way to keep us on the edge. What? What’s a seventh roll? Tell us a seventh roll. Dammit. Go back. They stop at a gas station, and right now Pedro is just trying to come to terms with everything that he did.

Pedro is basically responsible. For bring. I mean, he’s exactly what his ex-wife accused him of. Like the minute he walks in the house and she sees what he’s doing, she’s screaming at him. You get that outta the house, you’re bringing the evil in. And of course he doesn’t, he takes his clothes off and is doing the whole deal.

So like the full effect of the fact that he is responsible for this starts to get the best of him. And he sits down and he’s kind of like distraught and he’s talking to Pedro. He gets a call. And it is from his ex-wife who he knows is dead. And it’s a bit of a taunting call. I know. Mm-hmm. Where you are, you took my children, I want them back.

So they gotta decide where to go, and they decide to go to this woman’s house that Jimmy knows Mirta now. 

Craig: I couldn’t understand what this relationship was because she looked older than them. But I think that she’s a former lover of his Maybe it, it seemed like. 

Todd: Yeah, that was hinted at. It’s, 

Craig: well, it doesn’t matter.

Ultimately, it’s just somebody that he knows and, and he says, you know, she’ll give us money, and she says that she will, but she doesn’t have cash on her and she can’t get anything from the bank until Monday, so they’re kind of stuck there. 

Todd: But she also has a house without electricity. Because she turns out to be and, and we very soon fi figure this out.

’cause she, she’s the source of quite a bit of exposition and background here too. She, it’s really just from here on out. Mostly her, those two kids and, uh, Pedro and Jimmy. For the rest, 

Craig: for most of movie, well kind rest the movie. Jare is the older. Developmentally disabled son, and he won’t leave the car.

And so he’s there in the car, but then the wife shows up. Yeah. And she’s all up, like her face is all messed up. But she says to Pedro, I think I came for my children. And she grabs the little boy santino and takes off with them and, and then. Meda says, I don’t remember how exactly this happens. They’re at the car for some re reason, and Meda says that there’s a demon in Jaire, the older son.

Mm-hmm. And she says, look at his hands. And his feet or something like that. And, and they show us his hands and they’re kind of really like, tense, like into claws. And she, she says something like, I’ve seen this before. Now I suppose somebody could say that. This is convoluted. I kind of liked it. I thought that it was an interesting element.

She said that she is seen it before, that demons try to get into autistic people, but there’s something about autism that kind of traps the demon in there. Like they, yeah. They get stuck inside and, and they, they can’t find their way out for a while. She says, eventually it will, eventually it’ll get out and possess ’em.

There’s something about autism that confuses them and keeps them trapped in there, which I don’t know. It’s interesting. 

Todd: It is interesting. She does also tell them rule number seven is don’t be afraid of dying. Yeah. The more you’re scared of them, the stronger they become. And she says that they’re gonna ha the ra.

This is where we learned that the way that they’re gonna have to kind of release all this is to go to that original man and kill him. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: But you know, it’s gotta be done properly. She’s the, she’s one of these cleaners. Right who has the equipment, which she kind of starts setting up or at least pulling out, and she’s talking about how she, I, I assume all these cleaners have sort of a special gift where they aren’t afraid of the demon, and so they’re more resistant to the possession, which allows them to get close to it and I suppose start using this fancy equipment, I suppose.

Yeah, 

Craig: I, I, I guess it’s just that they know that the, the demons kind of feed on fear, so if they don’t feed it. 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: It’s, it’s not as strong or whatever. But I did find it interesting when she talks about this, she says that the thing that Pedro fears the most is losing his kids. And so that’s what the demon is gonna focus on.

And Oh boy. Oh, will he 

Todd: lose his kids? 

Craig: Spoiler. Oh boy. But you’re right, they, they, they have to find the guy. And so they’re like, well. I guess he didn’t die, but we know where he is pretty much because we, we pretty much know where he fell out, so they have to go try to find him. They split up, I think that she and Pedro go to look for the guy and Jimmy.

Goes to look for Sabrina and the kid. Mm. And he finds them like it takes him a while. Like he’s just driving around for a while. But eventually he put like, he’s driving through the fog and his headlights show the Sabrina walking down the road carrying. The kid in her arms, which is how we saw when she left.

But as he pulls up alongside her, he sees that she is pulling out his brains from the top of his head and eating it. 

Todd: Oh my 

Craig: God. Like popcorn that. 

Todd: Was shocking. 

Craig: I was shocked. I couldn’t believe it. I thought for sure at least, at least those two boys, I’m like, we, you know, we already saw the little girl get terribly mauled and possessed or whatever, but you know, that’s.

That’s just kind of the stepdaughter, you know, like his Right. She doesn’t count his, his two kids. She, she, she’s not important. His two kids will be okay. And especially the younger boy. Like, he was so cute and I thought, oh, he’ll be fine. Oh, no, no, no, not at all. He’s already dead. No, he is dead. Yeah. In the worst way.

Oh God. Yeah. He, he smashes her into a tree. 

Todd: He does, and then, but then her head comes through the windshield, she’s upside down and there’s a hole in her forehead and her brains are dripping out while she’s still talking to him. And this is where I believe there is an implication that they had some kind of relationship, if not an affair.

Right. She says something 

Craig: like, you told me you loved me, or something like that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But, but that’s it. Like, it’s just like that one line and he like tells her to shut up and then that’s it. There’s, there’s never, as far as I remember, any other reference to it. 

Todd: There’s all kinds of theories. From people online trying to kind of sort out what the real family situation is.

Here. There, there are people who think that maybe one of these kids is actually Jimmy’s kid through her maybe. And you know that the movie’s implying the, I mean, ultimately I don’t think it matters to the plot, like whose kid is who’s, but you know, it’s just kind of a interesting bits of trivia I suppose, and I don’t remember why.

So. So when the other two. Go to the side of the road and they find that the guy is not there, he is missing. They said, where could he be? And she says something like, well, evil likes kids, and kids love evil kids protect the rotten. So I know where they’re going to be. I don’t remember how she comes to that conclusion.

Craig: They must have seen a sign for a school or something. Yeah. And then so they go to this little rural school, which again, like it, it’s so intimate. We’re only focused in on these certain characters, but are we to believe that these kids have been posse? I, I guess all of this takes place over the course of just a day.

Todd: I think this is all like one day, one whole day. But the kids are coming in. I mean, to, to be fair, like they do show a couple kids coming, including at some point the kid with the bicycle that they swerve to hit and they walk in and, and you know, it’s, it’s appropriately creepy, old dark school. And one of the classrooms has a whole bunch of kids sitting in there with their heads down, Ugh.

And. They kind of pop their heads up and they say some sinister things and they sneak their way back outta there. The kids have like white stuff on their legs, and this one girl smear some white stuff across her face. It’s like powder of some kind. 

Craig: Yeah. I couldn’t figure that out for a while. They explained it, but for a minute I was like, what is happening?

I, I didn’t know if they were like molding or decaying. I wasn’t, yeah. I couldn’t figure it out. 

Todd: It was just another one of the many things that this movie sets up as a mystery at first and then pays off later, you know, which I, I love that they did that. 

Craig: Yeah. This school thing goes on for a while, but in the midst of it somewhere, we cut back to the house where the grandma is.

Todd: Oh yeah. And 

Craig: Jir, the grandson comes walking in the room and he says to his grandmother, I’m cold and I’m hungry. Can you make me something to eat? Now, this kid has been entirely. Nonverbal, the whole movie. And I don’t know if they talk about autism on a spectrum anymore, but like you said before, he’s not highly functional, he’s nonverbal.

He, you know, he’s limited in his mobility, but now he seems fully capable and is talking to her. So, I mean, I’m assuming he’s possessed, you know, like Right. The the thing, the thing may have had a hard time finding its way out, but it’s out now. Yeah. And we just see that for us. Second, and like the grandma looks a little bit worried and then we cut back into the school and the kids, like Pedro is asking the kids, you know, where is Uriel?

Where is the the rotten? And one of them says He’s not here, he’s at the teacher’s house. And so they get in the truck and. And then another kid knocks on the window and is like that, that kid was lying. He’s not at the teacher’s house. He’s, he’s at my parents’ house down the road or whatever, but Marta or whatever her name is, says they’re lying.

Kids lie, they, you know, kids protect, protect the rotten if they’re saying he’s somewhere else. That means he’s here. 

Todd: Yeah. And then he just flat out opens the door on that girl, knocks her down and starts assaulting her. 

Craig: Yeah. He beats the shit outta her. Again, 

Todd: this little girl, I mean, of course she’s a possessed girl, but once again.

Not something you see often in the movies. 

Craig: Well, and she’s a possessed girl according to Mirta. Like and, and like, yeah, I believe her. I believe her. But she’s just really acting like a little girl and Yeah, 

Todd: she’s crying, screaming, talking like a little 

Craig: right. And he’s just beating the crap out of her. 

Todd: He’s, 

Craig: anyway.

Todd: He’s just very, again, I really think this movie is saying something about this machismo thing. The, the real problem here is this guy is just acting on impulse and instinct and emotion, and so he’s breaking these rules left and right to a comical degree. Like they go inside and they sort of figure out where he is because they see this powder and a conveniently placed.

Mallet or hammer, whatever on the stage, it looks like there’s been a lot of scuffling and it doesn’t take them long to figure out that if they pry up the very loose boards on the stage, all of the adults’ bodies are down there and what that powder was was lime. I mean, a girl literally comes in and tells them, oh, we covered it with lime to protect the bodies.

I mean, it’s so, it’s so interesting how this demon, these demon possessed children are at once a threat, but not really. They’re around and they’re even interacting with them, and they’re telling them things. They’re lying to them, but then they’re telling them useful information. And so she starts setting up her stuff.

She’s like, they’re, you know, the, the big guy’s probably under there. So he digs through and sure enough he’s under there. 

Craig: Well, yes, underneath a ton of bodies. Like they killed all their teachers and, and hid them all under 

Todd: there. Right. And she asks him to go out to the car and get the supplies, but don’t run.

What does he do? He starts running. She’s like, I told you not to run. So he is like, okay. So he walks slowly through them and then again outside, runs to the car, comes back in. It’s all about like you’re not supposed to. To make them think you’re scared. Right. Right. You’re not supposed to startle them or, or anything like that.

So he brings in the equipment, she starts setting up this very complicated contraption. And like I said, man, it looks complicated, but I have no idea what you do with it. ’cause we never see it happen. Yeah. And in the meantime, she’s giving him instruction. She’s like, don’t kill him. And, and it looks like he’s about to, this girl then goes in and comes in with the useful information.

I can’t remember why he wants it, but she’s like, there’s an ax in the room over there. And Marta says, no, she’s lying to you. Don’t leave me. I I need you here. And what does he do? He, he leaves her? Yeah. He goes to the other room to get the ax, and of course she’s lying. We all knew it. There’s no ax in there.

Mm-hmm. The kids lock him in there by stringing some wire around the door, handles on the other side. And while he’s locked in there, they attack Marta, beat her and ca and, and drag her out. And 

Craig: break her contraption. Yes. So like the fixer who screwed is dead. Right? They’re totally screwed. This guy, man, I just wanted to beat him.

I wanted to beat this guy. I understand your frustration. At the same time, I totally understand. He’s terrified and like he’s. Not just scared in the moment, but he’s constantly always thinking about his kids. He, he, he has to fix this to save his kids, and he doesn’t really know what to do. Now, this lady’s dead, so he just picks up the heaviest piece of her contraption and beats the rotten guy.

To death with it. Mm-hmm. I can’t say enough how great these effects are. By the way, the gore effects are fantastic. Yeah, they, it’s disgusting. It looks so good. So, so he kills that guy and then a bloody demon child. Is born out of that guy’s body. Yep. And like it’s just this naked kid covered in blood and it walks by Pedro and marks his forehead with blood like, like streaks his forehead with blood and then just walks away with the other kids to me.

It seemed in this moment, and I think that this is the truth, that it has succeeded in what it was trying to do like this. This is it. Like, yeah, you made this happen. What? What? This thing wanted to happen now has happened. It has been birthed into the world, and it just walks off into the sunrise with the other kids.

So he goes home. 

Todd: He does, and I mean, that’s. Practically all there is to it. He goes home, his older son is uh, coughing up some hair. Did he eat? The grandmother? 

Craig: Yes. Okay. So it’s easy to forget that this all happened over the course of one night. And right earlier in the night, that neighbor boy had shown up and they had said, you can stay, but you have to sleep in the barn.

Well, Jimmy goes out there and the morning and the kid tells him, he’s like, something came over me and I killed my mom. And I ate her. Yeah. And isn’t 

Todd: he also. The one who killed the fixer who was coming. Yes. 

Craig: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was compelled. There was a voice in his head that told him to kill him and eat him.

That’s right. He didn’t eat his mom. He killed that guy and he fed. Some of them to the pigs and he ate some of them. And he says the same thing happened to your mom. And so then Pedro’s in there with his oldest son and the oldest son starts coughing and the dad being a good dad, you know, sticks his fingers in his mouth, trying to clear whatever it is out of his throat and he starts spitting up blood.

And then the dad starts pulling hair out and he pulls out a chunk and the grandmother’s necklace is in the chunk. So yeah, the kid ate. The grandmother and then Pedro and Jimmy, the adult brothers, meet in the yard and weep. And that’s the end. That’s it. Bleak as hell. Oh my God. It has been so long since I have seen a movie this bleak.

It was so. Bleak. That’s why I said at the beginning, it’s difficult to say, oh yeah, I loved that movie ’cause oh my god, it’s, it’s, everything goes wrong. The heroes of the movie lose and they lose everything and it’s just, and evil is out and who knows what’s gonna happen. It’s right. It’s terrible. I did really like the movie in terms of its quality.

I think it’s a great movie, and I think if you’re a fan of horror or just really good filmmaking, you should definitely watch it. It is not for the squeamish, the week of stomach. Yeah, right. Yeah. It’s not for the squeamish at all. And if you’re in. A dark place, not right now, to a light place. Put it, put it on the shelf until you’re feeling better.

’cause it is dark and bleak. But it is a really well made movie. I was, I impressed. 

Todd: It’s really good. I mean, uh, I remember the first time I saw it, just the emotional punch and of the end where this poor guy had done everything wrong and I think almost single-handedly took, made all the steps that were necessary for his entire family to be destroyed and for this evil demon child to be unleashed around the world almost entirely his fault.

Well, 

Craig: it’s hard. I wouldn’t say it’s his fault because it’s, oh, come on, substantial. It’s, he made lots of mistakes, but it’s 

Todd: circumstantial, I think. But he should have known better. No, no demons. The mistakes he made were when he was like actually told by people, do not do this. You know, you’re not supposed to do this.

And he fricking did it anyway. All, every time. Okay. Right from moving the body from the 

Craig: beginning to letting, so tell me that you’re surrounded by demon children, everything’s urgent, and you know people are gonna die, including maybe your own kids and you’re not gonna run, like, you’re just going to like Well, I get, I get what you’re saying.

He did keep breaking the rules. I am just saying like the whole thing happened to him. I think that the demon makes a point of constantly taunting him, telling him. It’s his fault. This 

Todd: is all your fault. I’m sorry. Maybe I’m naive, but if I were surrounded by children, while the only expert in the room who has been right about everything, including has already proven that these kids are liars, is telling me, remember, these kids are liars.

I need you in here to finish this. No, I wouldn’t go running. I would be like, this is what we do. Like this is the best. This is it. Like why would I suddenly believe these kids when they both demonstrably lied to me out in the truck, which was exactly what that woman said they would do. 

Craig: I don’t think that I could think rationally in those moments.

Oh, okay. I think that the demon was constantly trying to convince him that it was his fault, but I kind of thought the point of it. Yeah, he made lots of mistakes, but I. It’s an unusual situation. I, I get, I, I, I get what you’re saying. I, I think I just, understatement 

Todd: of the year. 

Craig: I just feel so bad for him.

Like he didn’t do anything wrong. Like, I don’t know, the mom said that he was what, like an absent father or something. Like he wasn’t a perfect guy, but he loved his kids and he didn’t do anything terrible to bring this on. Self. So I don’t know. I have a difficult time blaming him, but I get it. I get it. I mean he did, do you know there, there are rules.

They like if the movie is going to make a point of saying there are rules, specifically seven of them, and here’s what they are, and then he goes and breaks them all. I understand how that can be frustrating. 

Todd: They all break them. The, everybody who’s told don’t shoot them, goes right out and shoots them. It, to me, it’s just kind of about like all of this society falling apart because we just decided to follow our own emotions instead of stick with the protocol, you know, for the safety of everybody else.

Like the rules are there for a reason, but now you’re in the heat of the moment and you just, you just ignore it even when people are reminding you. I mean, it’s one thing. You know, to just in the heat of passion, pull up a gun and wanna shoot that thing. But when people are literally saying, do not shoot it, you know, and you’re just going and doing it anyway, like, that’s on you buddy.

I say, anyway. What, what a great movie. Thank you to all of the people who requested it, and thank you so much to our patrons who chose it. We had a blast talking about this. And, uh, if you would like to join that Patron club, just go to patreon.com/chainsaw podcast. We have lots of. Goodies back there for you.

We have Mini sos, we have complete un edited versions of our podcast. We have the ever-growing book club that’s been exciting. If that sounds great to you or join our horror book club, you can go back there as well. Just five bucks a month gets you access to all this. And of course, our ondy gratitude. Uh, you can go to our website, chainsaw horror.com and you can, uh, leave us a message there either by voice or you can send us an email.

We’d love to hear from you. We will definitely respond to you, and if you leave us a voice message, which is just a click on the Speak to us link, we will play it back on air as long as it’s decent, I guess, and nice. Did I just invite all of the indecent? I sure hope so. Anyway, without further ado, thank you guys so much for listening.

Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.