The Exorcist: Believer

For the first time ever in a Halloween season, we head to the theaters to give our take on a contentious movie, The Exorcist: Believer. And we’re delighted to have our returning guest and old friend, Heather, join us to give her take as well.

How does this sequel stand up the original? And how does this first installment bode for the trilogy of Exorcist films that David Gordon Green is bringing into the world? Early reviews have not been kind. Where will the three of US fall on the spectrum? Listen up – you may be surprised….

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The Exorcist: Believer (2023)

Episode 364, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: And we are joined here today for the, ah, second, third, I don’t remember how many times you’ve been on the show, but every time you come it’s lovely to have you, Heather. Thank you so much for joining us.  

Heather: Hi guys! Thank you so much for having me. I am excited to talk about this movie. 

Todd: You were also the person who, uh, it was actually your brainchild to put together the behind the scenes interview for us that became our premium for our Patreon subscribers that is on the Patreon channel. One of the very first things that our patrons can see to get a little bit of insight into us and the genesis behind the show and what we do behind the scenes.

A little bit about our personalities. And you were the person who came up with the idea and asked us all the questions and, uh, and made that halfway interesting. 

Heather: I was, I was really excited to get to do that with you guys.  

Todd: Thank you so much. And by the way, everyone, if you are interested in hearing that, all you have to do is go to patreon.com/chainsawpodcast, and, uh, that’s enough promotion right now, what we are here today to do is to go into our third week of our Halloween extravaganza. Super excited this week to be doing a brand new movie. I don’t think we’ve ever done this for our Halloween extravaganza before. Just days after it’s come out across the world.

The Exorcist Believer. And I believe you guys went to see it together, didn’t you? Yep. Yep. We went yesterday. I had forgotten what it was like to go to the theater, let alone with another person, because there’s so little that comes out in China that I’m actually interested in going out and seeing nowadays, post pandemic with a political situation, everything’s kind of gone to shit.

But, um, Actually, I happened to be traveling in Thailand last week and in Bangkok, I saw three horror movies on the big screen. I think it opened in Thailand a few days before it opened in the States, actually. So I managed to catch it on IMAX. I never thought I would be seeing a movie like The Exorcist on the giant fricking IMAX screen with all that sound, that amazing sound system.

Uh, it was something else. You know, it’s not what I would have thought of as like a giant screen movie. You know, I would think of something like an action movie or whatever that would be a little more appropriate. But, that was our only option at the time, and it, I don’t know, it, it, it was pretty cool seeing it on the big screen, and the sound design alone, um, I think it probably made it more impactful than it would have been for us otherwise, so, uh, it wasn’t a bad call, but I can’t imagine there are too many IMAXs in the states showing them.

The exorcist believer right now. I don’t know. I don’t know. I wouldn’t 

Craig: think so, but I, I, I’m a little bit jealous because when you texted me that you had seen it, one of the things that you said was that there are some really good sound jump scares. Yeah. Uh, I, maybe I’m just old and deaf, but it felt like our sound was kind of low.

And so I didn’t. I think maybe I missed those. So yeah, it’s a bummer. 

Todd: Ours might’ve been punishingly loud because I think even before all the main action happened in the, in the, you know, kind of last, last half of the movie, there were a number of, um, I guess transitions. That were just, like, very jarring, and, uh, there was, like, a sound punctuation that kind of went with it that had us jump just from that alone.

That, anyway, that was the IMAX experience. Maybe it’s just different. You know, I’ll, real quick, I’ll tell ya, I’ve been to Thailand once, like, 20 years ago, so I’m not up on Thai culture. This is my, only my second time ever, ever being there. And, uh, I had been told many times before that the Thais love horror movies and they produce a lot of horror movies and that was never more apparent as when I’m in this movie theater, keep in mind, very, very fancy movie theater, like in a, in the highest end shopping mall in Bangkok, it was gorgeous, it had so many options for screens and seating, they had a theater with beds where you could just like, Yeah, lay down and watch the movie.

No, I don’t like that. 

Craig: Yeah. No, thank 

Todd: you. They had a theater with beds. They had a several different versions of theaters with different sizes of comfy chairs that recline and they had a theater with sofas, double sofas. Even some of their bigger theaters had sofas in the back for a premium price. They had this giant IMAX screen.

They had 4D, I don’t know if you guys have ever seen a 4D movie, but they’re a little more comment over here in Asia, where you fricking sit in the chair and it’s like, they jerk you around and they flash lights at you. And sometimes there’s water and almost like seeing a 3d movie at a theme park, but it’s like Marvel.

It’s pretty nuts. Like they had all these options. I think there were 25 different screens at this, at this place. And the movies on display, I would tell you about half of the available movies were horror movies. Awesome. We saw Saw X. Talk To Me and The Exorcist Believer. They were also playing the original Exorcist, the extended producer’s cut, which I kind of wanted to see, but didn’t have a chance to.

And they had like four or five Thai horror movies that were either playing right now or being heavily promoted at that time. Plus The Nun. I mean, it was, it was very heavily horror. It was pretty interesting. 

Craig: Well, I was going to say, well, it is October, but Like, is Halloween a thing there? No, it’s not. Well, nonetheless.

Heather: When you said you had gone to see it, I was like, how? Cause, I remember in one of your previous episodes, you mentioned that in China, they don’t often show movies there. That are horror or, uh, had spiritual elements or, you know, things of that nature. So that makes sense now that you were not in 

Todd: China. Yeah, yeah.

And in China, the movies don’t pass the censors. If they have any supernatural elements, the only way to get around that. Sometimes producers will actually add a quick little scene or an extra scene or whatever that somehow changes the story so that by the end of it, it turns out that the person was crazy and it was all happening in their heads or something like that, you know, so yeah, it’s just one of those things.

So no, there was no hope of seeing it in China. Thank God I was out and was able to catch it on the big screen because it’s been getting a lot of, um, reviews and not all of them are positive. 

Craig: I’ve not read anything positive about it except for you. You said you liked it, and that’s the only person. That 

Todd: I’ve heard that from.

And what I did say is, I liked it, and I hadn’t read any of their reviews before I went in. I didn’t see any press about it. Embarrassingly, I didn’t even realize this was coming out. It’s 

Craig: David Gordon Green. He’s the same guy that did the, uh, Halloween… Trilogy the most recent one and that was really polarizing too Now the first one of those you and I watched and we really liked I thought it was really good And then the second one and then the third one I Thought was a perfectly fine movie but I understood why people didn’t like it because it was supposed to be this big final showdown between Laurie and Michael and And it wasn’t about them.

Like, the movie was not about them. They were secondary characters. They did come together for a fight at the end, but they had already done that in the first movie, and better. So, I still enjoyed it, but I understand why people didn’t. And I kind of feel the same way about this movie. I enjoyed it. I had fun watching it, and so I would encourage people to go watch it if they’re not going to get pissed off that it’s not anywhere near the same league as the original.

Like, if that’s going to piss you off, if you’re going to compare it and you’re going to be mad that it’s not as good as the original, don’t bother. Because it’s not. But, you know, as an Exorcist movie? It was okay.

Todd: Heather, had you read any reviews going into it? 

Heather: No, I hadn’t read anything about it. Um, but as soon as I started seeing previews for it, I got really excited, and I actually sent it to Craig. Um, and I was like, oh, I really want to see this. Mainly because I saw that Ellen Burstyn was coming back, and that was exciting.

And like, I made special note of like, The makeup, the design, when they were showing the girls possessed, it was the same makeup design as the original, and I loved that they kept that. Uh, but ultimately, I liked it. I would say definitely go see it, uh, if you were a fan of these movies. But there were just some things that I was…

It’s a little bit disappointed with, ultimately, because, I mean, it’s not the original. 

Craig: It’s not, but I really did have fun and I had fun going with Heather because there were several times that both of us laughed and I was glad that she was with me because if I had been the only one in the theater laughing, I would have felt

Um, because I wasn’t laughing because it was trying to be funny,

and because we saw it in the theater. I didn’t take any notes, so I don’t even know if I’m going to be able to remember specifically what I was laughing about. Most of it was in the end. But there were just, I don’t know, some, some silly things. Do we want to get into it? Because I want to say right out of the gate.

What my biggest problem with this movie is, is that, are we cool? 

Todd: We’re cool with it, but I, I, I don’t know if I made my point clear as well, that after, uh, you mentioned to me that it was getting poor reviews, I did go out and read the reviews and I think I messaged you back and I said, yeah, I pretty much agree with all of the negative comments about the movie, but like you guys, I didn’t feel like.

It made the movie a bad movie. I just felt like it, it just didn’t live up to the Admittedly super high and probably unreachable expectations of you know the original right like it’s a pretty high bar to cross If you try to make the movie exactly like the first one or try to get all the same notes You’re kind of doing more of a remake with different characters and slightly different situations so I could see where They were trying to kind of extend it a little bit, try to shake things up with a little bit more of that inner faith and things.

But I do feel like most of the criticism came down to the fact that it just lost a lot of its edge because it got all muddled with so many characters and Yes. It loses focus and part of the focus and intensity of the original is because it is that girl and that demon with that one and then two priests.

all in that room. Uh, and it’s just, it feels like the stakes are really, really high and there’s very little that can be 

Craig: done. I agree with you. I think the problem, one of the problems is that it’s not different enough. Like it’s, it’s basically the same story, but, but this time it’s two girls and This time, it’s not just Catholics who can do exorcisms, but other than that, pretty much the same.

Just not as, just not as good. For a couple of reasons, but I, I, I feel like for chronology’s sake, it opens what, in Haiti? It was at where they were. Yeah. Okay. So they’re in Haiti and it’s this couple, this young, beautiful, uh, couple and they’re photographers, both of them. And she is wildly pregnant. They separate because he wants to like, I don’t know, like climb a bell tower or something to take pictures.

And she’s like, Nine month pregnant, she doesn’t want to climb a bell tower. So, they separate, and while they’re apart, there’s an earthquake. And she is caught in, uh, some, some stuff falls on her. And the doctors tell him, he’s played by, um, the guy from Hamilton, by the way. Leslie Odom Jr. What’s his name?

Leslie Odom Jr. The doctors tell him that they can only save… His wife or the baby and he has to make the choice and then it immediately cuts to 13 years later in his home with him and his 13 year old daughter. Yep. Fine. Great. Good setup. Okay, here’s my problem. These girls who get possessed. We do not get to know them at all.

Not one little bit. There is one scene. With the dad and the daughter. The other girl, I don’t even remember if she speaks before they’re out in the woods doing, like, teenage witchy stuff. And that bothers me because then there are no stakes, like, they get possessed and I’m like, eh, I don’t care, so what. We, 

Todd: we do get to know them, though, because we see them at school and they’re chatting around and they’re, you’re right, the one girl, um, Catherine is the one, is 

Craig: the…

The 

Todd: friend. The white girl. Yeah. The friend. Uh, Angela’s black and Catherine is white. I feel like we get to know a lot of Angela. Really? 

Craig: She just has that one conversation with her dad, and we know that she… Misses her mom. 

Todd: That’s it. She’s planning an event and she misses her mom. Maybe I remember it slightly differently.

I, I just, I, I see, I feel like I remember a little bit more of Angela. And very, very little of Catherine. Like Catherine pops in, like you said. Uh, as a friend who, you know, they’re like swapping notes in class and sending messages to each other to arrange this meetup that never happens. You’re right. We never really get to see Catherine until they meet up in the woods and have that one scene.

I don’t 

Craig: know, so it just seems like the stakes are really low. Heather, what did you think? 

Heather: No, I agree. I mean, in the beginning, we… Get to know her a little bit. I mean, she’s going through her mom’s things, so she’s trying to get to learn things about her. Um, and the dad’s kind of protective of all of those sentimental items.

But then, yeah, that’s it, and then they’re in the classroom, and I think you’re right. I think something was off with our sound, because there’s a whole exchange, um, with her and the girl sitting behind her, and they’re whispering about, I don’t know, the plans for the night, and you, I couldn’t hear it. I missed the entire 

Craig: thing.

I couldn’t hear what they were talking about. No. And then they’re disappeared. Like, and when they’re in the woods, I say they do, like, teenage witchy stuff, like, it’s not anything serious. No. You know, it’s just, like, they’re kinda trying to do, like, a little seance or something, cause Angela wants to talk to her mom.

Totally, totally innocent stuff. But, the movie, I think, eventually tells us that that opens them up to evil spirits. It’s muddy. Yeah. I don’t really get it. Like, I don’t Well Like, I don’t understand the s Is there really any significance of that place that they are in the woods, or is it just, it’s 

Todd: spooky?

Well, it’s almost like a scary stories that tell in the dark type situation where you get this idea that maybe Catherine Had this ritual that she learned about or heard about because she says something as Angela brings the scarf right 

Craig: of her Yeah, yeah, well, but she doesn’t that’s the thing like her debt.

She was going to she was supposed to bring She was supposed to bring some kind of personal item, but her dad Took it away from her before she went to school. So she didn’t really have anything, which kind of is a plot point later. 

Todd: Yeah, it almost seems to like imply that because she didn’t have that personal item with her, then just any spirit could enter her maybe instead of that.

Heather: But yeah, that’s mentioned because when she’s finally talking about what they had done and they were going, and the whole point was that if they had an object, they were going because she. Could hear her mom’s voice. If they had the object, then her mom would speak to her. But like, since she didn’t have the scarf because her dad had taken it away, Mm hmm.

Todd: Her mom wasn’t there. So yeah, but I mean, in fairness, like, I mean, compared to the original movie, it’s just a Ouija board. That’s true. Yeah. And did we, it’s been so long, you’re gonna have to refresh my memory. We are planning to do The Exorcist in the very near future, but I haven’t seen it in a very long time.

Do we really get to know that much about Reagan? 

Craig: Well, no, but, no, but we are, we spend more time with her before she is in the throes of possession, and that’s another thing, like, maybe the Exorcist is a little bit quaint. in their portrayal of Regan, because even though Regan, I think Linda Blair was 15 when she played the part, but they kind of infantilized her a little bit.

Like, she’s very childlike. Probably in a way that would read as false today. And, and it was a little, I think for some reason, jarring to me how old these girls were. I almost felt like it would have been scarier, and the stakes would have been higher if they had been… Younger. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t… So, okay.

So, they’re lost, right? And they… They’re gone. Like, their parents are freaking out. Everybody’s looking for them. And they eventually find them three days later, thirty miles away. In a barn. 

Todd: Mm hmm. Traumatized. Yeah. 

Craig: Right. They have no idea where they’ve been. They think they’ve only been gone a couple of hours.

And this too, like, the second they’re back, Catherine, her eyes are rolling around in her head. Like, like the second they’re back, they are possessed. And it’s 

Todd: Well, to be fair, I mean, there’s a, there’s a bit of, of scenery in the hospital where they’re just kind of stunned, right? They’re just sitting there.

They’re not answering questions or they’re being very vague. They’re not really talking. They almost just seem like they’re in another world. And, uh, in the process of trying to sort of shake them out of it, eventually, yeah, Catherine starts to, to do that. But I feel like a little more time passes before that happens.

But 

Craig: it’s minutes. It’s minutes before, uh, Angela, she like, here’s a crying baby outside and she walks slowly and ominously up to the window of her room and slapped. it and the baby stops crying and everybody looks around like all of this happens mere minutes after they are back Well, and and a lot of like they go to sleep that night and then they wake up the next morning and they are full out demons 

Todd: I Mean a lot of that’s due to the fact that like in between all that like I think a lot of time passes here, and a lot of stuff is going on, but it’s not with the girls.

It’s with all the people rushing in. It’s all the byplay between the fathers, and there’s some tension there between the fathers and the parents, and some disagreements and some accusations happening. And, and that… I thought was interesting. I liked that bit of the story at this time, because I could see, as a father, you know, whose son has had a run in or two with another kid at school or whatever, thankfully nothing really came of it, but I’ve thought about the fact that, man, maybe I’m gonna have to face these parents, and they’re gonna be, you know, way more upset about XYZ than I am, and we’re gonna have to negotiate.

Above their own problem, even if the kids kind of make up, now the parents are forming their opinions about our family. And then with the religious aspect of it thrown in between all these parents, you know, I think that is, um, what the filmmaker is spending a lot of time here setting up. Is this other layer of dynamic, right, between the parents and how they’re gonna deal with it, and the potential conflicts that are gonna happen there, uh, in their approaches.

You know what I’m saying? 

Craig: Yes. And I agree with you. And I don’t, I thought that all of the actors in the movie were terrific. I thought that they nailed their performances. I didn’t, I’m not sure I cared. And like, I couldn’t tell if they were trying to imply that Jennifer Nettles and her husband, they’re Catherine’s parents, if they were trying to imply that they were racist?

Like it seemed like they were initially, and then that just kind of dropped. Like, like, she says something, uh, Jennifer Nettles is the actress, her character name is Miranda, but she says something to Angela’s dad. She’s like, I didn’t even know my daughter was friends with your daughter, and if I did, this wouldn’t be the first time we were meeting.

Yeah. They’re very angry at each other. Catherine’s parents are particularly angry at him, and I don’t really understand why. Or maybe I just don’t remember. I don’t know. No, 

Heather: I think you’re right. I think it’s more because they are religious, they don’t know anything about their family, and so now… Oh, okay.

His daughter has gotten their daughter into something, and… Oh, okay. That makes sense. Had they met prior, you know, they would’ve… Known more about them and her and yeah, she would never been in this position. 

Craig: I think you’re right. That makes sense Yeah, so it’s all it’s kind of all their business I don’t even remember like the order that things happen like I feel like that You know I said they go to sleep and then the next day they’re full out demons the way that that manifests is Angela like pisses all over herself And then, tries to kill her dad, and so she ends up in the hospital.

And then, Catherine is at church with her parents, acting all kinds of weird. And when her parents go up for communion, they come back and she’s gone. And, uh, the dad goes looking for her, and she is like, desecrated the communion stuff. And then there’s that moment from the trailer where she walks down the aisle.

Chanting like what body in the blood body in the blood or something like that and she’s all bloody and weird So she ends up back in the hospital 

Todd: See this is 

Heather: where I started to get a little frustrated because I was really enjoying The little bits of them getting possessed me too, and I wanted more but it was like Angela, you know, wakes up, and she does a little bit of weird stuff, and then she has convulsions, and then Katherine gets whisked away from the church, and then, all of a sudden, boom, uh, her dad is putting her in a mental hospital, and I just thought, well, that, it just escalated really quickly.

It did. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: But I mean, what came, you know, these girls, I don’t really think this is unbelievable because, uh, and I don’t even think it was that fast and it escalated that quickly because these people have no idea what happened to these girls. They’re afraid, I mean, somebody could have taken them, somebody could have sexually assaulted them, you know, the nurse at one point, you know, after they do the examination says there’s no hint of that, but like, what is it?

They’re worried about the girl’s mental health and what trauma could they have been through that they don’t know, so I, I would, if I were a parent, I would be. One step away from the hospital that entire time and ready to rush them in to be evaluated or you know to have some professional talk to them at the first sign of.

Well them even speaking up because they’re quite not themselves for the rest of the movie So I mean, you know, I actually didn’t I didn’t think that was too rushed I would have rushed my kid to the hospital if they started behaving like that right especially after that and then on top of that I mean, let’s be fair if we’re gonna if we’re gonna compare to the original exorcist Linda Blair pees herself And then complains to her mom, and then she’s basically in bed the rest of the time, and also, you know, flopping up and down in bed, and then weird shit starts happening almost immediately after that.

Right, right, but we spend There’s not a gradual 

Craig: progression there either. But we spend so much time with her. That’s the other thing, like, there’s so much business before they even get to the exorcism. Like, maybe I’m remembering it through rose colored glasses, but I remember the original. That exorcism went on forever.

Like, I feel like it went on for days. And I feel like it takes them days to get there and then when they finally get there, it’s kind of silly. I think 

Todd: you do misremember the original because I agree with you, the exorcism feels really, really long because it’s so intense. But there is a lot of the Father Charis going to the parents and the parents not knowing what to do, and then the hospital, and then she’s back home, but then like, I mean, there is a lot of, uh, non exorcism stuff that is nowhere near that bedroom that goes on for a good portion of the movie.

I mean, heck, even the opening of the movie has nothing to do with possession or anything, you know? I mean, it’s just different because that is more focused. I, like Heather, I did kind of appreciate a little more of this other stuff, like the pre Exorcism thing, because that’s not how I remember the original.

But that being said, I also felt like there was a little more mystery here. Like, in the first one, oh, she does the Ouija board, now she’s possessed. In this one, they have their theory. thing, but we don’t really know what happened, and they’re gone for three days, and what the hell’s up with that? Because we’re seeing a movie called The Exorcist Believer, we, we just know that they’re possessed.

And so maybe we’re just a little more impatient, and we figure like we’ve solved the mystery 

Craig: already. Not only, not only do we know that they’re possessed, but we know what this kind of possession looks like. So, it kills the anticipation. You know, watching the first one, sure, you go to a movie called The Exorcist, you expect somebody’s going to be possessed, but we don’t know what that’s going to look like.

Now, we do. And so, there’s just not, it doesn’t inspire dread. Like, I, I didn’t think the movie was scary. Now, maybe somebody who hasn’t seen a lot of horror movies would think it was really scary, but I didn’t. Uh, the other thing is, and you just, I think, suggested this, the, the first movie is really tight.

And this movie is kind of all, there are so many characters, I don’t really connect with any of them. And I think that, in particular, uh, Angela’s dad, Leslie Odom Jr. and Catherine’s mom, Jennifer Nettles, are supposed to have character arcs. But it just happens. Because we haven’t really gotten to know either of them well enough, when they have a big moment at the end, I’m like, okay, whatever.

I I don’t know. I don’t know. And then there’s the whole thing with, uh, the nurse Anne, played by Anne Dowd, who is Aunt Lydia on, yeah, on, uh, what is that show? Handmaid’s Tale. And she’s amazing. She’s a horrible person on that show, but over the course of the series she gains a lot of sympathy. She’s a great actress.

But here, it’s so bizarre. Like, for, for some reason, the demon in Which, by the way, I don’t really understand this. Is this, I guess it’s the same demon in both of them? Uh, I 

Todd: don’t know. Anyway, whatever. 

Craig: That’s a good question. The demon in Angela immediately reveals herself to this nurse, who is also their neighbor.

Was she the mean neighbor from the beginning? It took me a minute to put that together. But anyway, she says something to her. She’s like, Sister Mary Xavier, You got scraped out like a rotten pumpkin. And then, uh, Angela starts bleeding from her downstairs. So then Anne goes to the dad. Victor. And says, You asked me before if I had ever seen anything like this.

Because he had and she said no I haven’t but I read this book and she gives him a book and Then he’s like all skeptical. He’s like, I don’t believe in God and then she’s like well, wait Let me tell you about this and she says she tells him about you know What Angela said and she’s like nobody ever knew that I never told anybody that ever and it turns out that this book that he Gave her is Chris McNeil Ellen Burstyn from the first movie.

It’s her book And she wrote this book and then she kind of became the foremost, er, forefront expert on Exorcists. This is so dumb. And, and, and does this, this, like, okay, so I read that this movie is just like the Halloween franchise, wherein they are completely ignoring all of the sequels. But, isn’t this footage that they show of young Ellen Burstyn and the notion that she wrote a book and got famous on it, isn’t that part of the plot of Part 2?

Todd: I don’t remember that. I think 

Craig: it is. I think it is. Maybe I’m mistaken. I don’t know. But anyway, it’s just a really silly way to get Ellen Burstyn in the movie because she’s, even though she’s never witnessed An exorcism. She’s the top expert. 

Todd: Well, I don’t know if they paint her as the top expert on them, but she’s like the pop culture representative because she wrote this bestselling book and had this famous incident happen.

So she’s the one who did the talk show circuits and things like that and sort of as an advocate, you know, but, uh, you know, she still can’t, you know, she admittedly has never even witnessed one and she can’t perform one, you know, so. But 

Craig: she tries? 

Todd: Yeah. But out of desperation. No, but she tries 

Craig: to! No, I agree with you Heather, that didn’t make any sense.

Todd: But isn’t the idea that… I, maybe I’m wrong about this, but isn’t the idea that you don’t have to be a priest to perform an exorcism? Like you just have to have 

Craig: faith. Well, that’s the thing that she introduces. Yeah, she says that um, exorcism is not something that’s limited to catholicism. Every culture from the dawn of time has had ceremonies to expel negative And that’s what the movie is trying to say, too.

Like, you know, it’s not just a Christian or a Catholic thing. This can happen to anybody. And, you know, anybody can fix it, I guess. And so I guess that must be what she thinks. Because, well, first of all, it’s important to note that she got all of this fame, but it came at the cost of her relationship with her daughter.

She hasn’t seen, she doesn’t know where Regan is. She hasn’t seen her for years because Regan was resentful that… You know, her name got dragged into all of this, and it brought her a lot of attention she didn’t want, so she went off the grid. And, Chris has no idea where she is, and that makes her sad. So, when they, almost immediately, like, she has a big talk, like, she gives a big long lecture about mysticism and stuff, whatever.

And then, uh, they take her to see the girls. And she goes and she sees Catherine first, and we see… But they don’t. That Katherine has carved Reagan into her bed frame with her nail. And… Ellen Burstyn immediately takes one look at her and says, She knows who I am. Let me see the other one. What? And so then, he sends her in there alone?

Is that how that 

Heather: played out? Well, they go and visit Angela first in the, uh, insane asylum. And that’s when they learn that they’re taking care of Katherine at her home. Which I immediately was like, well that’s a terrible idea. Yeah. So they go then to Katherine’s house. No one’s answering the door, but then Ellen Burstyn’s character, she looks up in the window and sees possessed Catherine staring out at them.

And so they go into the house, um, and everyone’s scared and hiding and panicked. And so, uh, the dad tries to get. The siblings out of the house, and then Ellen Burstyn continues up the stairs into Catherine’s room all by herself, 

Craig: which right, and finds Catherine looking exactly like Reagan. Catherine speaks to her in the demon voice and says, like, Are you looking for Reagan?

It’s just so it’s the ties are so tenuous 

Todd: and but it’s the. It’s the idea that she’s faced this particular demon before, so the demon knows her. 

Craig: It’s the idea of that, but we’re never really told that concretely. 

Todd: I sort of feel like, well, we aren’t. You’re right. We are never told that concretely, and how realistic is that?

I don’t know. I don’t know what the, how demons operate in this particular universe. Right, it’s, it’s like 

Craig: Jaws 4. Like, Maybe, yeah, right. It’s, this demon has a personal vendetta against Yeah, 

Todd: just jumps from girl to girl just to get closer Burstyn. But, but that’s what she meant when she said, She’s seen me before.

She didn’t mean the girl, she meant the demon. She could recognize the demon inside Angela’s eyes. And so, when she goes into the room and she sees her, this leads to, uh, When you talk about callbacks to the first movie, this leads to, uh, Catherine running over to the window where she has a crucifix with, that has a sharp point on the bottom.

Oh god, I saw that and I’m like, I know, right? Please don’t 

Craig: put that in your vagina.

Todd: But she stabs her brutally in the eyes, just stabs her eyes out. And I w I thought that was quite shocking. I don’t Heather, you were, uh, you said earlier, I’m sorry to diverge here, but you said earlier, you were very excited to see Ellen Burstyn. In this movie, right? Like, uh, Yes, 

Heather: I was I I love I think she’s a brilliant actress and I was so excited that they were bringing back her character for this movie and Oh boy just So many of her lines were they were just such a slog Like they were just so on the nose and well, it was just hard to listen to her.

Sometimes there’s 

Todd: a lot of preachiness in this movie too. A little too much on the, especially at the end when it’s almost too cutesy and how it tries to wrap up everything in a morality lesson. Oh, that’s one of the 

Craig: parts that we both laughed at. That’s funny when we get there now. Yep. Okay. But, okay. I have a theory.

I have a theory about this scene because, uh, the demon girl does stab her. In both of her eyes, and then she’s standing there like wailing with blood just running down her face and Victor comes in and gets her out and takes her to the hospital, but I have a theory what I have read now. I don’t know if this is true, but this is what I’ve read the original cut of this movie when they screened it for test audiences.

got terrible, terrible response, so they went back in and did a lot of reshoots and shot a new ending. I have a theory that in the original cut, Ellen Burstyn was killed in this moment. Could be. And I think that that would have been more impactful, and I kept, I kept thinking they have to kill her off because there’s no way they can count on her living through making the next one.

Todd: Yeah, well she, she almost didn’t make it to this movie, not, not health wise, but she, she didn’t even really want to do it. Right. I understand that, uh, she was just offered a ton of money, and at one point she realized, hey, I could use that money and create a scholarship at the actor’s studio or something, because she’s heavily involved.

Uh huh. Uh, in the actor’s. studio. I think she’s like co president right now or something like that. So that’s exactly what she did. She 

Craig: turned it down and this, uh, you know, she was approached. They wanted her in the sequel, um, but she wouldn’t do it. Uh, so they had to devise a reason for her character to be away.

I think she was supposed to be off shooting a movie or something, but, uh, they, you know, they wanted to get her back from the beginning and she didn’t want to. She had a bad experience on the first one. She was, uh, injured. William Friedkin, did William Friedkin direct it? He did. Yes. First one. And he had, he had kind of like, gonzo directing tactics and, uh, she did not have a positive experience doing it.

So she didn’t want to do it. The only way they got her to come back was they gave her an offer, she said no. They doubled the offer. And she said yes, but she donated her, uh, earnings to charity, which I think is really cool. Um, but if you read IMDB, it says… This is the first time she’s back, but she reprised her role in the series.

That’s not true! Whoever put that trivia in there is wrong. Because I saw the series, and her character is in the series, but she’s played by a different woman. She’s played by Cagney or Lacey. 

Todd: I don’t remember which one! I can never keep those two apart. 

Craig: But anyway, she gets stabbed in the eyeballs. And I don’t remember what happens at this point.

Like there’s a whole subplot where Anne is trying to convince this young priest. What do we know about this person? Like, it seems like he’s supposed to be important for some reason, but I have no idea why. I have no idea 

Todd: why. I think he’s just the young priest who, um, takes an interest in it because they reach out to him because it’s, it’s, well, it’s all the parents, I believe, Victor, Miranda, and Tony, and Anne.

They all decide they need to reach out to a priest because that’s what they did in the first case, right? Right. And so they go to see him. That’s right. And then who is it? Chris? Who is Chris? Chris is Ellen Burstyn. Ellen Burstyn. She’s the one who, like you said earlier, had told Victor, like, that any culture, religion, you can do this.

And so, they also go and they look for this, they find this root work healer that his neighbor sort of brings over. Which was weird, right? He comes home from wherever he is from work and the door’s open and somebody’s in his house and it’s his neighbor who’s got this woman. Who’s sitting there on his, on the bed of the girl, like, doing some root thing.

I don’t know, the candles and some ceremony. And he’s like, who are you and what are you doing in here? And for a brief, brief moment, am I wrong about this? Did he look at this woman’s face and think it was his dead wife? I don’t know. I thought there was a little flash, or hint of that, where for a moment it was her, but then it turned out to be this woman.

Anyway, yeah, and then the other neighbors in there are just like, Oh, hey neighbor, I’m sorry, didn’t mean to scare you, but I’m just trying to help bring my friend over. She’s helped in lots of other situations that I’ve had. He chases them out, but they end up bringing her in as well. So, assembling the Avengers.

For this exorcism. It 

Craig: totally is. Because is it Ellen Burstyn who talks about church and how like, yeah, church is about going and praising God and celebrating God, but it’s also about community, is it her that says that? Yeah. And, and she’s like, and, and there’s strength. In that community, and so the idea is, we have to get everybody, I guess, who like, loves these girls.

Right. We have to all come together to, you know, like, by the power of community. 

Todd: It’s the It’s the care bears, you know, 

Craig: it takes, it takes a village to exercise a child. 

Todd: There you go.

Heather: Oh, and they do this like slow mo walk, like down the sidewalk, you’ve got the nurse and the root worker and the Baptist. Priest or the catholic priest and oh my god. I was I was just like what is happening 

Todd: right now. There’s the baptist pastor There’s the pentecostal preacher. It’s so crazy But the twist is that the catholic church decides they’re not going to let them do it.

I that would surprise me Uh father maddox comes over and is like no the diocese like forbid it. I can’t do anything. I’m really really really sorry But he like hands his um bible over 

Craig: to the nurse because she I don’t remember if we said this or not, she had intended to become a nun, but just before she was supposed to take her vows or whatever, she got pregnant and had that abortion.

So she is educated in the church. And he basically says, you know, God is in all of us. We all have the power to drive out evil. And he gives her the book. I just thought this is, it’s, it’s silly. Like it’s why he obviously thinks. that it should be done. Like, I guess it’s just his obligation to the church that 

Todd: he can’t.

Well, you know, okay, it’s a it’s an institution. They’ve got rules. They’ve got to follow I mean that was a big thing in the first exorcist, right? like that was part of the whole plot was were they gonna allow this to happen and they were skeptical that it was a More of a psychiatry problem exorcisms are old like we’re not gonna say that they are not necessary at times But those are very very very Very narrow circumstances and Reagan just sort of barely passed.

So I mean, you know, this didn’t bother me to this point I actually thought oh this could be interesting. I like this idea That it’s not limited now just to the catholic faith. Although in all honesty, it’s like mostly christian and one Like, kind of voodoo lady? Ha ha ha ha! Like, we didn’t have like the Hindu in there, we didn’t have the Muslim, you know, we didn’t have even Jewish or like any of the major, major religions represented outside of four different sects of Christianity and one random, non denominational, Haitian sort of, I don’t know, you know?

I mean, it just didn’t feel balanced in that way. The concept would have been better anyway if they could have brought in a few, a couple more religions. 

Heather: I agree. And that was one of the aspects that I really liked about it. I liked all the different religions and cultures and beliefs coming together. But ultimately the, not to jump ahead, but the Catholic priest still comes in at the end, like a superhero.

Craig: Oh my God. That was one of the moments that you and I both laughed out loud. I like the idea of different, because, and I think that this is what the movie is trying to do, but you’re right, it’s not diverse enough. What they’re trying to say is, basically we all believe the same things, we just practice it different.

Right. All of the, I don’t know, spiritualists, religious leaders, like the priest, the preacher, the minister, like they all kind of get on board with one another and are trying to work together. Yeah, which 

Todd: is surprising. Kind of, 

Craig: but the ones who are particularly skeptical are Catherine’s parents, because I think that they’re nervous about stepping out of their Christian beliefs.

She comes to a point where they’re trying something, they’re praying, like Anne is praying, she’s trying to do the traditional exorcism. And it’s not working, and Jennifer, Jennifer Nettles, I can’t help but call her that. Jennifer Nettles is like, we have to try something else, this isn’t working. So, it’s obvious that she is willing to do whatever it takes.

But the dad is still very reluctant, and remains very reluctant, and I really don’t understand why. But at some point he goes outside. And hangs out out there for a while. And then he comes back in, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don’t know. This goes on for a while, but, It’s just not very exciting. I read, I’m skeptical of this, But I read, uh, That Linda Blair was like an on set, Consultant for the girls during this performance and I’m not saying that they don’t do a good job I I these young actresses do a fine job It’s just not as scary to me and I think part of I don’t know.

I don’t know Was there what was it CGI? 

Todd: I don’t know. For me, it was just too many people in the room. I mean, how can anything be that scary when the room is literally crammed full of people with all the lights on and those two girls in the middle? Like, what are they gonna do that, to any one of them, that the others can’t…

Save them from, you know, it’s not the sort of situation like toss Father Karas out the window kind of deal, right? Right, you know that you get and I mean it just feels so intense and so dangerous For that one and two people in the room in the original and this just doesn’t compare and there’s so much stuff happening and people coming and going and In the midst of this.

So I think that’s what it is. It just, it’s so diluted. And then the girls come in and say some scary things every now and then, which I did find freaky because I, again, I was still into the movie here because I thought this could be interesting. Like what new fresh horrors can these demons who seem so in control and so one step ahead of everybody.

And so up in everybody’s heads in their own way due to this room full of people. And the answer is not. 

Craig: No, they don’t do much of 

Heather: anything. Well, and one of the big things is, so the girls are hooked up onto monitors and their hearts are beating in sync. So it’s like the demon is in control of both of them at the exact same time.

But yeah, the nurse is there and she’s got her metal crucifix and she’s doing the, the Catholic exorcism. But the, the. Crucifix gets too hot and she drops it and blah, blah, blah, all that kind of stuff. And then the root worker comes in and she’s blessing water and dumping it on them. And that feels like it’s really working.

Yeah, 

Craig: it looked like they expelled something out. Yeah. But, but like something came out of them, like some kind of like ghost vapor or something. But then somebody like. The mom is like, is that it? And she’s like, no, that’s just the beginning. But, uh, the beginning of what? Like, uh, well then what just happened?

Was that like, just like a, a burp? Like, I don’t know. But there, there’s, there’s no explaining it. And, and maybe I want too much. Maybe this, other people don’t find it necessary. But we don’t know why this demon is here. What does it want? Like… We 

Todd: don’t know the rules. Yeah, we don’t know what’s… Just like the first one, we don’t really know why it’s there.

It could just be, this is what demons do. Sure. And she was unlucky. It’s kind of the same here. And Joy’s toying with these people and playing with these people. But in the first one, there also, there’s just this sense that the demon has a kind of goal beyond the girl, right? It’s almost like… Father, the way that Father Karas gets pulled into this and the way that it is drawing out his insecurity and really doing the mind games.

With him? Yeah. Um, really getting to the heart of the matter, you almost feel like this was its purpose all along. This guy was fated to this thing. Right here, we got too many people for that to be the case. Even still, the demons are still taunting these people and pulling out their secrets. Like, for example, Victor.

We kind of assume, because the gir the his daughter’s the alive one and his wife is dead, that he chose to save his daughter, uh, at the beginning of the movie instead of the wife, uh, when he had to make that choice. But the demon comes in and says, You know that you didn’t want to save your daughter, did you?

You wanted to save your wife, and your wife just died, and your daughter ended up being alive. And the way that he plays with that, with their guilt, that is something that was Key to the original movie and started to really do here plays with the nurse’s guilt with her as the nun, uh, and failing there.

And, and, you know, she’s got something she’s trying to prove through this as well. That’s kind of her arc, you know, Victor’s arc is to come to belief the, I feel like the Catherine’s parents arc is to kind of come out of their perhaps judgmental 

Craig: shell. I think that, uh, the mom, I think Catherine’s mom’s arc is supposed to, she learns.

Empathy. Right. Um. Right. Because, ultimately, the, the demons give them an ultimatum, and this is so dumb, like, why? I don’t believe for a second the demon would say, would do this, because, I don’t know, but we’ll get, but the ultimatum is, you all. One girl lives and one girl dies, and you have to choose. Victor and Miranda, Catherine’s mom, look at each other, and he says something like, I can’t choose.

And she says, we can’t choose. Up to this point, it seemed like she would do anything to save her daughter. But at this point, I think it’s supposed to Like they 

Todd: were on the same 

Craig: It felt like it was supposed to be a revelation for her, but there wasn’t enough buildup to it for it to really pay off 

Todd: anything.

Yeah, it couldn’t be because, yeah, you’re right. Because we, we just had too many characters to worry about. Well, and we never 

Heather: saw her in another light. Like we only see her as this concerned mom for her daughter. And so. Which I think was absolutely appropriate, right? So like, I never saw anything else about her to say like, Oh, she’s a bitch, you know?

To play 

Todd: devil’s advocate here, that’s kind of a good thing, right? That she didn’t come across as a one note character, but had some empathy there. So like, you kind of see why, you know, ultimately, none of these parents want their kids to die. Nobody wants the Sophie’s Choice situation. Nobody’s willing to ste Thank God nobody was willing to ste step up and do it.

And I just saw that moment. I didn’t really see it as a turning point for her character, but I just saw it as a moment where it was made clear that the two sets of parents were in solidarity. Whereas they had been bickering and fighting before that, you did kind of wonder if one was prioritizing their daughter over the other and cared more.

At that moment, they made it clear to each other that we are not going to choose, neither one of us. That’s how, that’s how I read that 

Craig: moment. Well, right, but they’re on the same page, but Dad is around the corner, freaking out. And that’s when, you know, a lot of stuff… Oh, we skipped the superhero entrance of the priest.

Like, something goes wrong. I don’t remember what, but something goes wrong. Angela’s 

Heather: dad has to go empty the bowl of, like, devil… Water. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: That’s it. 

Heather: And so, he goes outside, and he… Dumps it in the sewer. And I was like, well, there’s the start for part two. But then he sees the Catholic priest sitting in his car praying and he walks up to the window and taps on it and says, Hey, the fights inside.

And that’s when the Catholic priest finally. Gets up the nerve or decides that he’s going to go against the church or whatever to go inside and help and 

Craig: like a 

Todd: rock star. I know I thought this was such I love actually I thought this was a brilliant part of the movie. It was a big joke. You know he comes in like a rock star and you think okay just like in the original.

The Catholic Church has taken control here, and they’re gonna save the day. And it seems to be working. He’s got his hands on both of those girls, and they’re really reacting strongly against him, or at least they appear to be. And then, in another throwback to the original, again, in a way I thought was just brilliant, he gets the head twisting treatment.

Craig: Yeah. But it breaks his neck and kills him, and you’re right, I think that this was an intentional joke, and to me it was just really tonally uneven. Like, this, this hasn’t been an intentionally winky movie up until this point, and then this seems like intentionally jokey. 

Todd: Well, I don’t know. I don’t mean like jokey, like har har, like we just made a funny, I almost mean it like uh, Like, we’re subverting movie convention here.

You don’t expect him to die, and then the build up of this scene is like, Oh, he’s this is how the day gets saved. Uh, and then, Eh! Sorry, you’re wrong. And and again, it’s like, I think it’s it’s almost like, Wipes the slate clean again, And brings everybody down to a level of despair. Like, even I’m sitting there, I’m going, Well, shit, what in the world are they gonna do?

Ha ha ha ha, you know? Yeah, it was 

Heather: in that moment where I was like, Well, what can’t the demon do then, you know? Like, he could kill everybody in the room right now, so then… 

Todd: But isn’t that, isn’t that the central question? Like, this has always bothered me about the original Exorcist. Like, this demon can throw shit around, he can stab anybody he wants, he can, I mean, he can, he can make her float.

He can make the whole house fall in. Why isn’t he? You know, what is keeping him from doing that? So I felt like that was consistent from the first movie. That was part of the horror of it. 

Craig: I think it’s because this is just occurring to me now. I think that the demon does have an end game and I think it wins.

Oh, yeah. So ultimately, I think it it it’s leading. to a climactic moment. I mean, it’s the climax that the demon wants. I feel like it’s at this point that both girls start pleading with their parents. Pick me, pick me. I don’t want to die. It’s very heart wrenching, and I couldn’t imagine being in that situation.

And frankly, I would probably pick my kid. You know, when all’s said and done, I’ll feel terrible that that other kid is dead. But, mine’s not. Mmm. And so, I, I, the, the, the climactic moment, like, they’re both pleading, everybody’s saying, uh, you know, don’t touch them. Angela, for some reason, starts levitating.

She’s floating in midair. Well, and Catherine, like, it’s like Catherine is trying to levitate, too, but she’s still bound in the chair, so her body’s just, like, putting pressure on the ropes. At the height of all this craziness, the dad bursts in from around the corner and says, I pick you talking to Catherine, I pick you and the mom’s like, and the, the crazy shaking and everything gets more intense for a moment.

And then Angela crashes to the floor and everything stops. 

Heather: Oh yeah. And Catherine wakes up 

Todd: and she’s normal. Angela’s flatlined on the machine. And then we get a shot in Angela’s head, I suppose, of her back in that corridor. No, that’s Catherine, right? Am I getting the names mixed up? You’re right, Catherine.

Catherine is the one who flatlined, yeah. Catherine, uh, in the corridor, uh, and it’s like she wakes up and she’s in this place again, and she’s like, Mommy? Daddy? Where is everybody? And you hear this, I choose you! And she screams no and she gets pulled down into the water. She’s basically being dragged to hell.

I thought this was a freaking bleak as hell ending. I just, I had an emotional impact for me. I didn’t think it was silly at all, but, uh, that was just how I took it. I did 

Heather: not expect one of them to actually die, so that… That was surprising 

Craig: to me. I did. I didn’t think they were both going to make it. I thought that that was going to be, oh, they’re going to be shocking.

They’re going to kill one of these girls. Um, I didn’t know which one it was going to be. And there’s that moment and then she dies. And then there’s also, I think it’s kind of at the same time. Victor is also having flashbacks to when they were in Haiti and his wife was pregnant. I failed to say that while she was there, a Haitian, like, medicine woman or something had blessed the baby.

I don’t know, were we to believe that that somehow… Protected her? Helped to protect her? I don’t know. Because in the end, like, in the end he runs and he grabs that scarf and he puts it on her, I mean… This, I’m jumping a little bit back now, but he like, he’s like, I know you’re in there and your mom loves you and I love you and I want you and you kind of see her, but then that’s when the, the dad picks the other girl.

Um, but anyway, she wakes up and is fine. And then she goes back to school. Uh, one of the, the thing that I liked was as soon as, when Catherine dies, and the mom and dad are both wailing over him, the pastor says, you were tricked. And I like that, because that’s what demons do, and that’s what the devil does.

You know, they, they trick you into making a wrong decision that’s gonna have terrible consequences. Yeah. And it, and it does, and I feel bad for them, like, then we just kind of see a montage of the aftermath, like, Angela’s fine, she goes to school, she looks wistfully at Catherine’s empty chair, Uh, it looks like Catherine’s mom and dad, it just shows he’s sitting alone in a diner, and then she comes and joins him.

I get the impression that their relationship is not going to survive this. Yeah. Is that 

Todd: it? Well, then there’s some preaching No, there’s 

Craig: Yeah. God. Then, okay, so then, it ends, this, and I knew this, we see, uh, Ellen Burstyn, you know, with bandages over 

Todd: her eyes. Yeah, go ahead. Before that, we get that preachiness of the, um, of the nurse who’s, who’s talking to, who’s she talking to?

Somebody random about what evil is? I think this was a bit in the trailer 

Craig: as well. She was talking to the, like an investigator? Yeah, I think like a police 

Todd: investigator. And she just kind of brings it up offhandedly. You know, you know what I think evil is. And, and it’s like the, it’s the loss of hope or the, what the devil wants is for people to lose hope and, uh, don’t lose hope guys.

You know, that was kind of like, There’s, there’s always, 

Craig: there’s always hope. Cut to Ellen Burstyn. 

Todd: This was so trite. I, man, if you could cut out the last 10 minutes of the movie. And improve it tremendously, I think. This, 

Craig: this last scene, I, again I read, I, I can never say with any 100 percent knowledge if these things are true.

Um, but this ending was put on In post, because, uh, you know, for fan service, basically. So, uh, Ellen Burstyn is sitting, you know, looking, not looking out the window because her, she has no eyeballs. Um, so she’s got gauze over her eyes. And the door opens, and we don’t see who is coming in, and I turned to Heather and I said, I wonder who it could be!

Todd: Probably just a nurse checking to see if 

Craig: everything’s okay. And, uh, she hears, whoever it is, and she says, Victor, is that you? And a woman’s hand grabs her hand and starts to kneel, and it’s Linda Blair. She says, No, Mom, it’s me. The end. And

IMDb is rotten because they have Linda Blair billed second in the cast of this movie. So, no surprises if you go to the IMDb page. Thank God I was surprised. 

Todd: I didn’t know. I didn’t know she was going to be in there. Well, 

Craig: I read, again, I think I mentioned it before, but I read that she was initially disinterested.

And, and she, uh, said, uh, because people were approaching her, asking her if she was a part of it, and she said no. I am not a part of it. I think it was only after the movie was completed, uh, and, and tested poorly that they somehow got her to agree to be a part of it. Yeah, now, here’s another thing. thing that, uh, that concerns me.

This is going to be a trilogy. It doesn’t make any difference how well this movie performs because they paid so much for the rights to do it. And so they are contractually bound to make all three movies regardless. Where does it go from here? 

Heather: So in the first Exorcist, we learned that the demon’s name is Pazuzu, right?

Right. Yes. So, yeah, like we know. The demon’s name, we know why it’s there, and unless there is some big, ultimate force that we’re fighting, like, every movie is just gonna be the same. 

Todd: Three girls. Ha Right. I think this demon had a different name, I think it was like Lamashtu, or something. Oh, I don’t know. I never heard a name either.

It was a Blanket or You Miss It thing, I read about it later, it was on Wikipedia. Oh, 

Craig: yeah, because I didn’t notice. I kept waiting for them to say Pazuzu because I wanted to know. I mean, you know, we’re talking about demons, and I think that if Pazuzu can know all of the priests from the first one, he can know all of his backstory and his stuff with his mom and stuff like that.

Presumably any demon can do that. So I, whatever, I don’t care. I was curious. Um, but, but do we continue 

Heather: following? And are we supposed to assume, like, Ellen Burstyn’s character was, like, tied to the possessions? Because during, like, the exorcism, they kept flashing to her in the hospital, and she’s waving her hands like she’s feeling something from it.

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: Yeah. I don’t know. Typical horror trope, isn’t it? Like, she somehow just senses that things are going wrong because she’s had some prior experience with this before, and she cares so much about them. Yeah, I don’t know. I kind of feel 

Craig: like, I don’t know, I kind of feel like the only… Unless they’re gonna continue to follow Angela, which I don’t really…

I’m not invested in her, really. I think the only way to do it is to just make another exorcism movie that exists. world. Um, but I don’t know that we need to follow any of these characters anymore. I don’t know what they have to give us. 

Heather: The only character I could see them continuing with would be Anne Dowd’s character.

Because in this movie, while her character arc was not… Super. But we do learn that her roots were initially in Catholicism. She wanted to be a nun. Uh, she obviously didn’t take her vow, so she turned to the medical field. But she has that moment where she, when she’s getting ready to do the exorcism, says, This is why I’m here.

This was clearly what was intended for me and why I didn’t become a nun. So maybe she’s going to… Go off and fight all the demons. Yeah, she’s 

Todd: super exorcist. Ha, ha, ha, da, da, da. I 

Craig: could see that, you know, um. She’s an interesting character and, and, Yeah, I 

Todd: think you’re on to something there, Heather. I really feel like you’re right.

It seems like she was developed. And especially with her speech at the end. You know, she was 

Craig: definitely. And the movie, yeah, the movie wouldn’t have to be about her. Um, but she could be the tie. You know, that. that ties the world together. I think that would be interesting. The other things that I feel like we didn’t talk about that we should, there were other callbacks to the original two stylistically.

The score, um, was very reminiscent of Tubular Bells, and then at the very, very end, when you have the original actresses back together, I think the actual Tubular Bells comes in. Um, it opens with a savage dog fight, which I feel like is imagery from the first one, and They did the quote unquote subliminal demon face flashes, um, at various parts.

Uh, so he did, you know, make an attempt to connect, um, the movie to the original. Uh, it just, it just, it didn’t land. Really. Again, I didn’t hate it. I had fun watching it. You know, I, I had fun going to the theater with Heather and my parents, both of my parents, by the way, my mom hated it because they killed Catherine.

Like that was just that. That was a no deal for her. My dad was like, It was good.

He got, when I started complaining about it, he got kind of defensive. He was like, well, it’s never going to be as good as the original.

And I agree. I agree. Like that’s, that’s a reasonable defense. It’s not going to be as good as the original. If you can get past that and you can just enjoy it for free. fun, you know, especially right now. It’s October. It’s in the theater. Go see it with a group 

Todd: of people. I tell you what, I think if you would call this movie the possession of Angela and Catherine or whatever, I think it wouldn’t be up to so much scrutiny.

I don’t think people would have so many complaints about it. I agree. Just. Kind of internally, like all the things that we’ve talked about, it’s not as scary as it could be. It’s not as scary as the original was. It doesn’t have that same impact because of all these reasons that we’ve just described. But I enjoyed watching it.

I thought it was fun. I don’t think that… At its core, it was a bad movie. I thought it got corny at the end. There were a couple baffling things in the middle that we talked about. But, uh, I was on the edge of my seat during the whole exorcism scene, wondering where it was gonna go and how in the world they were gonna get out of this situation.

And then, you know, I had kind of a drag me to hell moment at the end, where I was like, oh shit, the demons win! And a good person dies! That hit me. Um, I thought it was appropriately bleak, and… And again, if we’re going to go back and compare it to the original, the demon wins in that too, you know? So, I mean, I thought it was in that way in keeping with the original in other ways, maybe our expectations are a little too high.

I don’t know. 

Heather: Well, and like, ultimately, like I said, I, I liked it. I enjoyed getting to go see it. It was fun to get to go Craig with you to the movies. I didn’t hate it. And I, and I do, I would say, go see it. You know, if you, if you like the exorcist, if you like these movies, go see it. There were just some things that.

I feel, uh, could have been more developed. Um, they, they, they introduced a lot of really interesting ideas and concepts that I just felt like weren’t flushed out very well, you know? Um, so yeah, I definitely go see it. Uh, but. That was just that’s just my thoughts. 

Todd: Well, it’s hell a lot better than the exorcist part two.

I’ll tell you that 

Craig: I enjoy that movie too. I know it’s terrible, but I still like it 

Todd: Got its moments Well, thank you again heather for joining us here on this episode Thank you listeners for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend. We have Two more Halloween episodes to go.

There’s gonna be the two best this month yet. Nothing will beat this one though, because Heather was on here with us. So, uh, We’re gonna have to let you down slowly from here on out, but still gonna be fun. If you’ve seen the Exorcist Believer this season, you’ve managed to catch in the theaters like we have, drop us a note on any one of our channels.

X, as it’s now called Facebook, uh, Instagram. Also, if you want to join our patrons and help shape this show, uh, go to patreon.com/chainsawpodcast for the very, very low price of five bucks a month or 10, if you’re feeling generous, get access to all those goodies and all that conversation that happens behind the scenes until next time I’m Todd.

Craig: I’m Craig.

Heather: and I’m Heather!

Todd: With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.


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