The Menu

The Menu

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This pitch-black comedy skewers much more than meat and veggies. The whole relationship between artists and its patrons, food and foodie culture is cooked up and served for discussion, critique, and pointed action as one rogue chef (played by Ralph Fiennes) decides he’s had enough. Equal parts hilarious, pretentious and unsettling, we clearly both lapped up the wicked dish that director Mark Mylod was serving.

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The Menu (2022)

Episode 342, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Craig, you picked this week’s movie. It is 2022. It’s fresh. It’s fresh on the menu.

Craig: You’re so stupid.

Todd: What’s wrong with me? I don’t know. You, you do this week after week. We’re under 342nd episode right now. Geez. Can I like shake it up a little bit, try to be original.

Is there any original you can try? I guess is there any originality left in the world anymore segue into this, this week’s, uh, movie, The Menu 2022, directed by Mark Mylod and starring of bevy of famous actors. Not the least of which Ralph Fiennes, and I don’t know if there’s a single movie in the last two decades.

Been amazing that he hasn’t been in, uh, this guy’s everywhere. It’s crazy. And this movie, um, well, I I had never even heard of it before, but that’s mostly because I’m in China, so I’m kind of out of the loop with movies. But you recommended it. What, what made you, uh, decide to do this this week? Uh, I don’t remember 

Craig: why I picked it for this week, but I remember when it came out, I, I remember seeing trailers, I don’t remember.

It must have been on some streaming service. They were showing trailers and it looked interesting. Uh, and, and just one of the good things about this movie is, um, even in their advertising, they didn’t reveal a whole lot. Mm, you could tell that it was going to be suspenseful. You could tell that the stakes were gonna be high.

There was one line, it’s a funny line in the movie where one character says, uh, no, we’re gonna die tonight. And another character’s like, oh, yeah, definitely, definitely. And, and I, that line was in it, so I knew the stakes were gonna kind of be high, but that’s kind of it as far as the premise went. But it looked really well, ma well made, and it’s got a pretty amazing cast.


Todd: remarkable. 

Craig: Yeah. I mean, these, gosh, the, the people I, I, I hesitate to say that they’re not a list stars because they are. Yeah. Really most of them. Um, but they are not, some of them are not your typical, um, leads. Y y you’ll, you’ll know virtually everybody in this cast. You’ll recognize virtually everybody in this cast.

Um, and they’re all fantastic. And, and I like that about the movie too. It feels, even though it focuses on. A couple of main characters. It really feels like an ensemble piece. Yes, it does. And I was interested and invested. In all of the characters. Yeah. So, and that, I think that says a lot about a movie it, cuz it’s a big cast.

So to be invested and interested in all of them, uh, I think that, that says something good. 

Todd: No, I think you’re right. I mean, all very experienced actors and the acting in this movie is fantastic, even though the premises is absurd and hilarious. This, this movie’s a very, very dark comedy. Mm-hmm. Basically.

Mm-hmm. So dark that it actually bothered me a little bit. I, I, the last time I watched a movie that was such a dark comedy that it kind of got under my skin and, um, I had a hard time falling asleep the next day was very bad things. Do you remember that one back in the nineties? No. Did you ever see that?

See that? Oh no. God, it’s like about a bachelor party gone awry, you know, as somebody gets killed and then horrible things just start happening after that. Mm. And it’s like, you wanna laugh, but the things that are happening are so bad that you feel icky. You know? Mm-hmm. And this movie really toyed with my, maybe I’m just a sensitive guy, but like this movie really toyed with me back and forth.

I had to keep reminding myself, this is not real. This is a comedy, you know? Um, it’s so parody. I mean, it’s such a comedy that it, I, I’ve read some criticisms online that say it’s a bit too much. You know, there are people that complain that it’s um, uh, just too on the nose, you know? Um mm-hmm. But I don’t agree.

I mean, it is very on the nose, but I thought the aesthetic was great. I thought that was a fine movie because of it and because these cooking shows and this whole culture of foodies or whatever, that it’s parodying are very much like that. Don’t get me wrong, I love cooking shows and I love watching travel series about food in different places.

And I have watched documentaries about Noma and at least two or three of the other famous, like hot cuisine, you know, innovative, like crazy out there restaurants that this movie is parodying. And so while I was watching it, I was quite giddy. Mm-hmm. You know, because I felt like this is definitely in my interest, even though I don’t myself.

I, I also think it’s silly. Think what, what? That, this kind of cuisine is a little silly. Like, I like the idea that there are people out there doing crazy things with food and making weird, odd presentation because it’s like art, you know? It’s, it’s like, uh, right? It’s like food is art in a way. So I like that in the same sense.

Like, I don’t buy in that this is very important to society. I don’t buy in that. Um, and, and I, and I think there’s a very, like a class element to it where this is only accessible for very, very rich people, right? And so it kind of ends up becoming quite pre pretentious. And so, you know, that’s just not, that’s not my class.

I don’t know, maybe if I was a very, very rich person, I hung out with my peers in that way, then I, I would think differently about it. And the same level I would want to eat at a place like Noma, I would probably be chuckling the whole time through, you know, so I, I really related to everything this movie was trying to say from that sort of social commentary angle.

And I, I, I just loved it. I just really enjoyed that aspect of it, because at the one hand, I was fascinated by even the dishes and Right. You know, the environment and the chef’s attitude and everybody’s attitude there. At the same time, I had no problem laughing at it because I thought, yeah, it’s like they’re reading my mind, you know?

I make fun of these people all the time. Should I, I want to hope I’m not one of ’em. You know, it, I don’t know. I’m, I guess what I’m trying to say is this is heavy on social commentary. Yeah. Some people have criticized it as being too heavy. I don’t agree. I think that’s the whole point. I think the things that they’re commenting are the.

Ripe for parody. So, you know, you get a huge pass there and nobody’s really, I don’t think anybody’s really done a horror movie like this before in this territory, so I kind of like 

Craig: it. Oh no, I’ve seen, see, that’s the thing. Gosh, what have you seen that, that was a lot what you just said. Sorry, 

Todd: I’ve gotta respond to my verbal diarrhea here.

Craig: That’s gonna be hard because there were like 15 times where I wanted to jump in, but you were just on a roll, so I wanted to let you go. Um, but I, I feel like right here out of the gate, you’re kind of getting into what the heart of the movie is like. Yes, it’s a movie about food, you know, and, and, and the culinary culture, and foodie culture and all of that stuff, and food as art, and who is consuming that because it’s limited to a very specific audience, right?

Like that is specifically the impetus of the movie. But I think the reason that I, I don’t know, I don’t think it. Affected me as much as it did you, but it made me think a lot. I really felt like this movie was a thinker. Mm-hmm. Because I think that the food element of it is meant to be representative of any art form that one may be passionate about.

Todd: Sure. It’s about passion. 

Craig: Yeah. Right. So whereas you say you kind of chuckle at, you know, these fancy, you know, platings and, and things and, and I do too, even though I, I really do appreciate the beauty of it. Yeah. Like I, I do look at it like art and, and frankly, I, that’s usually the only way that I get to consume it, because I see it on tv.

So I don’t know if this food tastes good or not, but it sure does look pretty. I actually do appreciate that. But if you chuckle at it, do you also chuckle at like, Modern abstract art. Like you, you know, an eight by eight white canvas with a red square in the corner and a splash of blue on the side like 

Todd: I do.

But it’s, it’s a qualified chuckle. You know what I’m saying? I think it’s silly sometimes when you go to an art gallery and the artist piece, there’s a 

Craig: banana nailed to the 

Todd: wall. Yeah. You know, it’s taped to the wall and then it becomes almost like a commentary on itself. And it’s like, this is a, actually a commentary on art, because art sometimes is stupid.

And so we’re doing this stupid thing, you know, and I, I buy into all that. I get it. I think it’s kind of crazy that people are lining up around the block to go stare at a banana that’s been duct taped to the wall. I mean, I read about it, I saw a picture of it. Do I want to be there in person? Do I need to be there in person to see it and pay like a whole bunch of money to do that?

You know, probably not. And I think at some level there’s a part of me that’s just a little uncomfortable at, at getting too serious about it. Because at the end of the day, art is art. And while we all appreciate it, and I think art is very important, I mean, God, you and I will, you know, I think are totally on the same page.

Oh yeah, of course. Here. Yeah. We think art is, is is, uh, the soul of humanity really. Yeah. That being said, on an individual case by case basis, like what’s more important, you know, there, there are bigger fish to fry in the world. There’s, there’s, there’s people who are starving who can’t even get anything to eat, right?

And so then you’ve got people on the other end who are paying, you know, several thousands of dollars to eat, you know, six morsels of food that are prepared by a team of 12 chefs who are being worked to the bone. Uh, over tiny, tiny little details. Not getting any sleep under chefs who are very, um, notoriously demanding and angry and abusive, right.

Over what you know, so that these rich people can have a spoonful of some essence of something or whatever that’s put, put into a little pellet or whatever. And like I said, I appreciate the effort, I appreciate the thought, I appreciate the artistry of it. But in sort of the greater social scheme, which again, like you said, this movie’s commenting on this kind of thing, I, I don’t wanna get too obsessive about it, lest I kind of like lose my grounding in life, you know what I mean?

Craig: Yeah. I don’t know. I, I understand what you’re saying and that’s what the movie is talking about. Or at least in part, you know, um, oh gosh. I don’t know how to say it without kind of jumping to the end, but it, it’s about, you know, who has access? To this food or who has access to this art and how, in what way do they appreciate it, if at all?

But, but what I’m saying, and I think that you are kind of saying the same thing, is that art is subjective and we don’t all appreciate it in the same way. Like I usually think that whoever taped the banana of the wall, I think that those artists are trolling. Much in the way that the chef in this movie is trolling.

Right. Kind of, you know what I mean? 

Todd: He’s definitely trolling. 

Craig: Yeah. Right. But I also think that there are some people who are very passionate about their art and maybe I just don’t understand it or appreciate it. Um, but they really are passionate about it. It’s difficult to tell the difference. Right. You said the last thing, last thing you said.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a movie like this before. I have seen probably, I don’t know, a handful of movies about people who are so passionate about their art and so competitive about their art that it drives them to lunacy. Sure. Like Black Swan, um, or there was a movie on Netflix, I think called The Perfection with these competing instrumentalists.

I don’t remember if they played the piano or the violin or what. Showgirls Well, yeah. You know, well, you, you get what I’m saying? Like I know what you mean. People who are, people who are so passionate about their art that they. We’ll go to whatever means necessary to accomplish what they wanna accomplish or, or make their point 

Todd: or whatever.

Well, I mean, at some level, like most of the serial killer typ horror movies or something like that, or about somebody who’s passionate about something, whether it’s literally killing people, whether it’s women, whether, you know, they feel like they’re in the wrong skin or something. I mean, I mean, yeah. And then, you know, knock that down a little bit and talk about it.

Restricted just to art. Okay. Yeah. There are definitely movies like that too. And then if you knock it down another level and take it to the kitchen, And hot cuisine like this. That’s what I was talking about. I don’t think I’ve, the only other movie I can think of that has kind of dealt with this very specific subject matter in this way is, um, I think it’s a Peter Greenaway movie called the the Cook the Thief, his wife and her lover.

Have you ever seen that? No. I would almost call it a horror movie. It’s maybe not a, it’s, it’s more drama, tragic drama kind of thing, although it has a more horrific ending, but it takes place in a high-end French restaurant with, um, a couple foodies and there’s a couple who, um, meets up, uh, in secret here at this restaurant.

The whole place, the whole movie almost never leaves this restaurant, and then it kind of goes to sinister ends. But, uh, in terms of, yeah, this, this very specific subject matter. I don’t know if I’ve, yeah, I’ve really seen it before. So there’s a movie that you 

Craig: should watch called The Platform, which is also.

A movie that uses food as a metaphor for the haves and have-nots. It’s a really cool movie. 

Todd: That’s not the one where people are on different platforms and trying Uhhuh, is it? Oh, okay. Yeah. I didn’t know that had anything to do with food. Yeah, because 

Craig: the, what it is, is it’s this prison, but the cells are stacked vertically and in everyday food descends from the top.

But, and it’s like all of this amazing gourmet food prepared much in the same way that this food is here, like with, with, with Ultimate Care. And it’s just this enormous platform of all this gourmet food. And, and, but as it descends, you just have to grab whatever you can and you have to eat it right then.

You can’t save anything. You have to eat it. Um, but it continues to descend. So the people at the top get 

Todd: whatever they want, they 

Craig: want, well they get great food, but the people, a hundred and some things down get. Scraps or whatever. Interesting. Um, but it’s inter because it becomes a metaphor about, you know, the haves and the have-nots.

Mm-hmm. And they realize, of course, people down below realize that if the people up above would just ration, then they, there would be plenty of food for everybody, but they don’t. And so it becomes a whole. Societal thing. It’s a great movie, but that’s not the movie we are talking about. The movie we are talking about is the menu.

Yeah. And what I, there are many, many things that I like about this, so I should just start with some of the easy ones. I think that it’s just beautifully shot, like, oh yeah, it just looks fantastic. It’s a lot of close up work, uh, because it’s very character driven, but the environ. Look great. And of course, you know, this is direction, but also, you know, design, uh, as well.

But the locations look fantastic. Like it starts out on this dock and, uh, we meet our main characters and, oh, I don’t even know, like if you haven’t figured it out yet, I really liked this movie. Me Too. And I feel like, I feel like there’s so much to say about it that I don’t know where to start. That’s why I’m trying to get the little things out of the way.

It, we will, we’ll come back to the dock in just a second, but this, this group of people take a ferry over to an island to go to this exclusive restaurant. You know, it, it’s only accessible by the ferry. You know, it’s super exclusive, super, super expensive, whatever. And this whole group of people’s going, um, and, and the island that they go to looks beautiful.

You know, like they all walk down the beach. That’s all, you know, like covered in like huge driftwood and stuff. It. Remote and fantastic. And then mm-hmm. You know, they, they walk like through this compound. You, it’s just this beautiful, uh, landscaped island. They’re led 

Todd: by a LA woman. Um, she’s very stern and very um, Oh, uh, it’s Elsa, right?

The kind of Elsa chef’s assistant, I suppose. She’s, yeah, she, I wouldn’t 

Craig: say she’s so much stern as she’s, she’s just very cool. Matter of fact, and cool Uhhuh. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, but it’s kind of, she’s, I guess the maitre d is that what we would call her? I don’t know these terms. Maybe she’s the chef’s assistant or something.

I don’t know. But she’s like one down, I below, yeah. Maybe she’s head of house or something. I don’t know. Whatever. Like the 

Todd: most trusted or whatever of the chef. Right. 

Craig: Exactly the right hand man. Um, and she’s cool. She’s great. The actress hung Choo plays her is great. Uh, I love her character. And, and then they go into this restaurant, which is where we spend most of the time, and it’s a seaside restaurant, so one whole wall.

Uh, windows glass that looks out over the beach. It’s beautiful. And then it’s very minimal and kind of modern with just round tables, you know, in the one dining area. And then behind that is the open kitchen so that they can see everything being prepared, and it all looks great. It’s all shot. Great. Every time the staff in the kitchen is cooking, they are actually cooking the actual dishes.

Mm-hmm. Like they, they were trained to do this. And so it looks authentic, like you said, you know, these shows, these cooking shows are immensely popular. I love them. I watch them, and it, it feels very authentic. It looks great. All right. So that’s me getting the little stuff out of the 

Todd: way. Very nice. Well, they brought in, um, uh, you know, quite a few consultants for this who had worked on cooking shows.

So, you know, to help with the photography, you know, there are moments in here where as they serve the dishes, you get these like close up shots of the food with little title cards and everything. Just like you get on these, on these cooking shows of these travel shows. It’s just wonderful. And the first thing I thought of, because I’ve had a bit of a fascination with it, um, because I used to own a restaurant at one time and so my head was really neat, deep into what kind of food are we gonna make?

What’s our menu gonna be? What’s our kitchen look like? You know, what directions are we going to go with it? And so, um, I’ve seen some documentaries about this end, you know, like Noma, and I’ve read a lot of the news and I kind of keep up on it just a little bit. Like I said, not because I’m, I’m not really that obsessed, but I just think it’s very interesting.

Sure. The writer, one of the writers of the movie, um, will Tracy, um, said that he came up with the idea when he was a Norway on his honeymoon, and he did something similar to this, where he took a boat to this really upscale restaurant on a private island and then realized that they were basically stuck there until the meal was done.

And this was like in Norway. Mm-hmm. And, um, A lot of what you see, like the design of the dining room and the way the layout is and stuff is very similar to Noma, which is maybe one of the most, you know, it’s been rated as like probably the best restaurant in the world. Once again, depends on your perspective of what best restaurant’s going to be.

But anyway, they invest a lot of time, a lot of money, and a lot of energy into really innovating and that, that I think is in Copenhagen. And it’s interesting that I think shortly after this movie was released, I’m not saying it had anything to do with the release of this movie, but just at some point late last year, um, the chef who owned Noma closed it down and he said that this, this is unsustainable.

You know, he said it’s stressful for everybody involved. The amount of money is crazy and all for what he just started to feel like moral. Challenged as the years went on with trying to sustain this kind of restaurant in this way. And when you see this all on the screen, you know, you can tell this is like private island.

They’ve got their own smokehouse. They, they raise their own things. I think it’s funny that another kind of running gag through the show is that there’s a French ish style waiter who comes by Uhhuh, like he’s the sommelier. Yeah. And he’s show showing them wine. And at one point he, I think his fr he has this like strong French accent that gradually disappears as the movie goes on.

Uhhuh. Yeah. But, um, at one point he shows them some wine and he said, this isn’t just from a, a specific year and vineyard, but this is from a specific vine on a specific like thing. Just really cute. The way that this, uh, calls to this whole culture and this very, very upscale. You know, type of experience that can only be sustained with a lot of people paying a lot of money and investing a lot of time into these things that they deem must be important to get the ultimate experience.

And all these guests who come here on this boat are looking for the ultimate experience. One of them has been there many times and uh, one of them is a food critic. Yeah, yeah. One of ’em is just a movie star, uh, with his assistant. That’s John Zamo. 

Craig: Then there’s the 

Todd: Entourage Boys, the bros, the Entourage Bros.

Clearly got some startup going in Silicon Valley, right? Yeah. But it mostly focuses around the story of, um, these, this couple, Tyler and Margot, and Margot is played by Anya Taylor Joy, who everybody recognizes from, um, the uh, the chess movie. Right. Oh God, I don’t know. She’s been in everything she has been, especially since then.

Yeah. The Queen scandal. She 

Craig: was, she was in the Witch. I think The witch was her first movie. She was the main 

Todd: girl. Oh yeah. We saw that in the theater together, 

Craig: didn’t we? We did. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we did. And I think she is fantastic. She’s great. Um, I, I think that she, I’ve seen her in a lot of stuff. She’s, she works a lot.

But I, I think she has, not only is she very talented, but she just has, she’s gorgeous, but she has just a really unique, unique look. Yeah. She has really big eyes and I, I think, uh, that, that works so well in this role. Yeah. Because she sees things that other people don’t see. So stupid. Look at that. Uh, but no, it’s, it’s fantastic.

She’s great. Uh, it, it was originally supposed to be Emma Stone and I love Emma Stone, but I think they got the right gal here. Yeah. Um, and, and Tyler is played by Nicholas Holt, who’s been working since he was a little boy. Yeah. And, and has, is still working. Renfield, um, in the new He stars in Renfield that comes out with Nick Cage.

Mm-hmm. Next week, I think like, He’s been everywhere. He’s been in 

Todd: a few X-Men, I think he’s Beast In in, in X-Men, several of the X-Men movies, Uhhuh and things. He was in Mad Max Fury Road and Uhhuh. A lot of stuff. A lot of stuff. He’s got a very familiar look. Yeah. 

Craig: And he’s good too, and he plays a really interesting character.

Mm-hmm. Um, the, the, the food critic is played by, her name is Lillian, and she’s played by Janet. Janet McTier. Um, did you watch Ozark? You probably didn’t, you’re not big into tv? No, no. Um, she was on Ozark and she played a badass. Uh, and she’s good in this movie too. The movie Star, who isn’t even really given a name is John Zamo.

Yeah. Who’s I just think is great. And he is, he’s, he’s playing kind of a watched up movie star and he based his performance on Steven Segal because he has worked with Steven Segal and hates him. 

Todd: Seems to be a common theme with people who’ve worked with Steven Segal. 

Craig: Yeah. Right. And then hi, his assistant, like you said, and then the older couple Richard, who’s played by Reid Bernie, I didn’t look him up.

He’s very familiar. He’s very familiar. His wife Anne, played by Judith Light. Oh my goodness. Uh, we are experiencing a Judith Light Renaissance and I am here for it. Like 

Todd: That’s crazy. Judith Light, she is popping 

Craig: up. Everywhere. What is with that? And I am, I don’t know, but I think she’s fantastic. She’s, she’s always been, I think she is an excellent, excellent actress.

So I am happy 

Todd: to see her. We all, we of course grew up with her on, who’s the boss as Andrew. Right. And, and when you really go back and look at her performance, she’s a fantastic actress. She’s like, yeah, really good. And she’s great in this too. Yeah. So she deserves a renaissance. 

Craig: She’s popping up in tv. I just saw her in an episode of Poker Face.

She was really good in that. Uh, gosh, I don’t know. I, I’ve been seeing her all over the place. And not only is she a good actress, but she’s really versatile. She’s a really versatile actress and she plays a different kind of character in this. Yeah. Whereas usually because of her stature, she’s usually kind of a dominating presence.

She’s a tall gal. Uhhuh. Yeah. And she’s got a big persona too. But in this. She’s meek and I get the feeling that she’s just kind of beaten down by life. Mm-hmm. And, and she just, ugh. I love her. And 

Todd: she and her husband are like argu. Like they’re cl clearly like they’re coming here, they’re clearly have money, but they’re, they’re relationship.

They’re clearly years long. Relationship is a bit on the rocks. You just get these hints every now and then that they’ve been married for 40, 50 

Craig: years. That’s what happens. 

Todd: It’s gonna happen. No judgment here. Trust me. For me, absolutely no judgment. That’s, that’s their thing, right? Every table’s kind of got their thing.

Right? There’s the dude, bro, guys, you know, who’ve got some thing going. Uh, there’s this guy. Well, the thing is they’ve all been more or less chosen to come 

Craig: here. They’ve been invited. Yeah. Right. Which is weird. Oh gosh. And bef uh, I don’t know how to, uh, go about it because it’s hard right? Twist and I, I don’t, it just reveals right.

Um, cuz Tyler and Margot, they’re just little things that I feel like are important. The, as soon as soon as we meet them, they’re the first person we meet. She’s smoking a cigarette. Babe, please don’t smoke. It’ll kill your palate. 

Todd: And my palate will die happy. Hey, Margo, tonight is huge. Okay? The flavor profiles, it’s all super 

Craig: delicate.

When you smoke, you ruin your ability to be able to appreciate it. Come on, please. He’s like, well listen, since I’m the one paying, can you not? Um, and that’s totally a normal thing to say, 

Todd: but, but it’s got another meaning, right? 

Craig: Like, uh, And then there’s a moment there on the ferry. They’re served a boat course.

Okay. Whatever. Um, it, but it’s just, it’s an oyster, but it’s like fancy. There’s like some kinda like, foam on it and like some like golden caviar or whatever. Uh, Tyler pulls out his phone and takes a picture of it and 

Todd: goes on about it and 

Craig: stuff. Oh. Goes on, like, oh, it, it’s so pretentious. Like, every time that he talks about food, it’s just the most pretentious thing.

He’s really annoying. Like this one, he says something like, it’s laughable. It, it, it just makes me want to laugh, like, like in a good way. Like it, it’s, it’s dumb. He’s super pretentious, super weird, super obnoxious and annoying. You wonder, you’re like, she seems cool. Yeah. Why is she with him? He seems so annoying.

It’s weird. But anyway, okay, so there’s that set up with them, but then you’re, I guess I can kind of understand why people would say it’s a little bit on the nose because you’ve got each table and really when it breaks it down, when it comes down to it, and I didn’t come up with this on my own, but I looked it up and I don’t know if it was intended, but it seems pretty it it got weight that like there’s a representative of each of the deadly sins.

Oh yeah. Somewhere in that. Somewhere in that. I’ve read that 

Todd: too. Kitchen, there’s gluttony, there’s greed, there’s yeah. 

Craig: Uhhuh. And you know when you read the explanation you’re like, yeah, that makes sense. 

Todd: That tracks. Yeah. So it’s all pretty high concept. You know, and that’s, yeah. But 

Craig: That’ss the thing I can see me, I was just gonna say that’s, I understand why people could say it’s a little bit on the nose, but I think it’s intentional.

Uh, I think it’s purposeful. 

Todd: It’s like watching a naked gun movie and saying, well, that was really dumb. Like, dumb. Yeah. That’s why are you watching this movie if you don’t want, I mean, that’s, they’re trying to be this way. So none of that bothered me at all. In fact, I thought it was the strength of the movie, like, good for you that you can make a movie like this and get all these stars involved.

Well, I think it was, um, executive produced by, um, will, will, uh, Ferrell and Adam McKay. Oh, I didn’t know that. Yeah. So, um, You know it, it had weight behind it from the very beginning. So I think that’s why they were able to get all these stars involved. But yeah, who wouldn’t want to be in this sort of high concept horror movie?

You know, that kind of skewers is an easy target. You know, pretentious rich people or whatever and hot cuisine, you know? So, yeah. Okay. It’s an easy target. Yeah, it’s very high concept. Yeah. There’s all the symbolism and all this stuff, so what? I like it. That’s what makes it fun. That’s what I enjoyed about watching it.

Yeah. If you’re coming in here hoping for something super realistic, you’re watching the wrong movie, cuz it’s a parody 

Craig: it, right? Right. It is. Uh, that being said, I mean, it’s set within a world of realism. Yes. Like, there, there’s no magic going on behind the scenes here, aside from culinary magic. Ooh. Uh, but no.

Like, it could happen, but it’s, it, yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s farfetched. It’s, it’s also, you know, the fact that all of these people were specifically invited. That’s, I actually do have, take issue a little bit with the movie now. As another important thing to note, I was just looking at my notes. Margot is not supposed to be there.

Right. We find out when they’re checking in with Elsa. Tyler had a, had a different guest, a different woman. Um, but he says something like, oh, something came up. There’s a change of plans. And Elsa, like, it’s not just like, okay, like yeah. Hmm. It seems like it may be an issue. Uh, but they let them in anyway.

Take them through the barracks and get them in there. And one of the only rules, like there really aren’t any rules except for one, don’t take pictures of the food. And then Tyler continues to take pictures 

Todd: ev all the time 

Craig: they can see you. Like, and he, he kind of acts like he’s doing it surreptitiously.

No, everybody can see you like Elsa and the chef are looking right at you. Yeah. But it starts out normal. I mean, it’s very theatrical. Uh, and the chef comes out, Ray finds, and um, like he walks to the, you know, to the, through the kitchen, to the dining room. And he stands there and he claps and the whole kitchen comes to attention.

Yeah. It’s very silly. Oh, but also totally believable. Yeah. Especially, especially in a restaurant like this, which obviously these kinds of restaurants do exist, where in part. You’re paying for the show. 

Todd: Right, exactly. 

Craig: Now, it, it may not be this choreographed in a lot of places, but that’s part of the experience.

So I get it. He’s being theatrical. The critic who has, who has been to his restaurant before says this is his deal. Yeah. He, he, he’s a theatrical guy. It’s part of the experience. Sit back, enjoy it. Um, and they do, like, they all enjoy it. Um, at first, 

Todd: well, and the movie’s called The Menu and, you know, just like, uh, with music, the album, like, I don’t know, I think nowadays not as much thought is often put into, you know, how you lay out the songs on an album.

You know, which comes first, what comes right. You know, there used to be an art form to it, and I think some artists still do this, but you know, generally speaking, you got an experience that was meant to be experienced from beginning to end when you listen to say Pink Floyd or even Uhhuh. So this is the same way with these kinds of, um, High-end restaurants, right?

The idea is that this whole thing tells a story or is meant to evoke a certain experience. And so every little piece of it, none of it’s by accident. The whole menu from beginning to end, you’re supposed to eat all the way through and experience it and you know, it’s art. I, 

Craig: well, I was, it is, I hesitate to say this because I do know that people are, you know, passionate about their art and I, I, I am impressed with the culinary arts, but like the first course is the island and, you know, he announces it and he describes it.

And like you said, you know, text comes up on the screen, you know, and, and fancy script that, uh, describes what it is. It’s funny. Um, but the island. A single scallop served on a pile of rocks with like, with like seaweed and flowers, like delicately placed all around with tweezers. Does, yeah. Does it look beautiful?

Yeah. Is it stupid? Mm-hmm. Like just, yeah, it’s really dumb. Give me a pan of scallops, please. 

Todd: Right. At least more than once. You know, it’s funny, I actually w worked very closely, uh, in my previous job before I, I went solo. I was working in a marketing, uh, marketing with the guy who, and he was the head of the sales and he’s French.

And, uh, he invited me over to his house for dinner and I made this joke about how, oh, what are we gonna like eat like one scallop on a spoon and all that stuff. And he laughed. He said, I don’t know. He says, me and all of my friends joke about why is French cuisine portrayed in shows as being this like meal that you’re gonna leave starving when you’re done?

Because it’s absolutely not like that In France. He’s like, we eat for three hours and we have tons of food on the table. And sure enough, when I went to his house for his birthday, he actually had a, a friend of his, which just a French chef and cooked. And I’d never eaten so much food in my life. I could, I could barely force it down by the end of the evening, only because it had been like three hours, spread out.

Over three hours. Like, you know, you can drink a little bit more if you spread it out over a few hours. Uhhuh. Oh yeah. So, uh, I think it’s even funny how like the reality of the way we eat gets a little twisted by these shows and these kind of experiences. Like there are probably people who assume that, oh, there are people who regularly eat this way all the time, or there are people who, this is the only kind of restaurant they go to, or that these restaurants exist in every city.

You know, that kind of thing. But I don’t, I don’t think that’s true. I think this is very much on the edges of, uh, the culinary world, you know, most. 

Craig: Yeah, and don’t get me wrong. If I had the opportunity, like I don’t have the money, it’d be fun if, if the opportunity arose, I would totally do it. Like, yeah, me too.

Yeah, I think it would be super cool. I love that kind of stuff. I love, I, I would super enjoy sitting there and watching them work in the kitchen. Like that would be fascinating to me, so. Mm-hmm. I get it. But it’s, it’s, oh God, it’s so 

Todd: pretentious. It’s, it’s very pretentious. Good evening. Good evening. Good 

Craig: evening.

Hello. Hello. 

Todd: Welcome to Hawthorne. I’m Julian Slow, and tonight it’ll be our pleasure to feed you. The curtain rises. Over the next few hours you will ingest fat, salt. Sugar, protein, bacteria, fungi, various plants and animals, and at times entire ecosystems. But I have to beg of you one thing. It’s just one.

Do not eat. 

Craig: Taste, 

Todd: savor, relish. Consider every morsel that you place inside your mouth. Be mindful, but do not eat. Our menu is too precious for that. And look around. Here we are on this island, except accept all of it and forgive. And on that note, 

Craig: food, what? Get out of me. These people like that is ridiculous.

And then, and then he goes on like, this is a long speech. It’s true. He ends up saying something like, what happens inside this room is meaningless compared to what happens outside in nature. And it cuts to Margot’s face. And she has kind of a smirk, like I think that she’s thinking the same thing that we are.

Like, this guy is such a douche. Mm-hmm. Uh, and she, she hears something behind her and she turns, and Tyler is. Weeping. 

Todd: Yes. He’s literally crying. Tyler is the one guy in this room that has bought into everything so hook, line, and sinker. So it’s hilarious. 

Craig: Oh, he is so into 

Todd: it. You wanna hate this? Oh my God.

He’s set up from the beginning to be the guy you hate, you know? Oh yeah. And that’s also quite clever, right? Because then you turns out he might be the scummiest of the guests in there, so, and he’s kind 

Craig: of rude to her. I guess that doesn’t come for a minute. The, the next course is, um, the bread course. And this part is crazy too.

He gives a long speech about bread, but mostly it’s about how like bread is common, people, food. Like it’s been, you know, the source of nutrients for the common people for all this time. So you don’t get. 

Todd: You’re uncommon 

Craig: people. Yeah. Yeah. You’re not common people, so you don’t get bread, you just get the Accuc.

Mots. And so he serves them like a Bob Ross paint palette of like little teeny tiny dollops of like sauce. Yeah. 

Todd: Just different like olive oil and herbs and some kind of like, yeah, pat, whatever like that. And all these things. And it’s the food critic who looks at one of the, it’s like, you know, she’s like examining it like really closely and really carefully cuz you know, she’s the one who’s always remarking to her, uh, cohort there.

She’s super critical about it. And she mentions that the emulsion is broken in one of the sauces. And, uh, somebody overhears her say that. And so then one of the chefs serves her a giant bowl Yeah. Of broken emulsions. Huge. It’s the. It’s the first time we see something like overtly aggressive happening, uh, uhhuh in this kitchen.

But it’s, it’s a bit of a shocker, right? Well, th 

Craig: that’s, that’s kind of the first thing. But then at the Tyler, by the way, is loving it. He just thinks it’s genius. And, and Margot says to him, you know, that he’s basically insulting you, right? Mm-hmm. And it just goes completely over his head. You know, watching this, the first time, nothing seemed out of place or out of sorts, nothing blatantly felt like, oh, there’s a double meaning right to this.

Right. But in watching it a second time, it’s so cleverly written. It is because things, things can be, once, you know, Things that are revealed later. Going back, you can hear, you hear lines in different ways. That’s right. Which I, I think I, it’s a good movie. Like it’s, it’s really well 

Todd: done. And I like the dude, bro, guys who are totally above this.

Yes. Even though they’ve paid for this, they’re like gonna be assholes. Like, we’re above this as well. And they call for bread. He’s like, excuse me. Is everything 

Craig: to your liking, sir? Oh, well, actually no. Thanks for 

Todd: asking. Um, I mean, look, the food’s great and we totally get all the conceptual stuff, but could we please get a little bread, you know, and some gluten free for my friend as well?


Craig: no, no. Okay. 

Todd: This is all 

Craig: very clever and I, I didn’t want to pull this card, but you know who we are, right? Yes, you do. You know who we are. I know who you are. Mm-hmm. 

Todd: You know, we work with Doug Barrack, right? No, you work for Mr. Barrack. Exactly. And so, you know, we all play on the same teams. 

Craig: And just 

Todd: flip us a little bread, please.

We won’t tell the 

Craig: soul lady, I promise. Okay. No, this is weird 

Todd: confession. Ah, did you say no? 

Craig: I said no. Yes. Okay. Okay. Wow. 

Todd: Okay. That’ll be all though. Thanks. Elsa leans over into them and says, you’ll eat less than you desire and more than you deserve. And then walks away. Yeah. And just 

Craig: walks away. Like, she is so ominous.

I love her. She’s so cool. They call her over and she walks over. Very professional and, you know, how can I help you gentlemen? And they’re like, uh, can we have some bread? No. And they’re like, did you say no? Yes. So we’re not gonna eat bread. No. Right? Like, she’s just so matter of fact about it. And then she’s, she’s funny about it later.

I don’t, I don’t know how best to continue through this cuz there’s like, Eight courses or something. 

Todd: Yeah. We can’t, we can’t talk, talk about the whole thing. Right. And 

Craig: we learn little things. I think we’re just gonna have to start talking about the things that we learn as we go along, but, 

Todd: well, there’s an old lady in the corner.


Craig: an old lady in the corner, and we find out who she is on one of the courses. I don’t remember what course it is, but the chef tells this story about, it’s about memories or something. Mm-hmm. He’s like, one of my favorite memories, uh, is of Taco Tuesday when I was a kid, every Tuesday was Taco Tuesday, and my mom would make tacos.

Um, but one day, one day my dad came home drunk, which he always did, but he was especially drunk and I don’t know, he says he got violent or something. So, He, the chef as a little kid stabbed his dad in the thigh. In the thigh with kitchen scissors. So then he ser well the dad had tried to strangle the mom with a phone cord, so he then serves them a dish that’s a curled up foam cord with a chicken thigh, with scissors stabbed into it.

Right. But we find out that old woman who’s been sitting in the corner quietly, she doesn’t say a word through the whole movie, that’s his mother. Uh, and she’s getting drunk. Oh. But I feel like there was something else. Oh, taco Tuesday. So they’re also served tortillas and he says, this is the very first time we’ve used this laser etching machine to, to personalize all of your tortillas.

And they arrive. And they are all very personal and they do reveal things, which we should talk about. But one of my favorite things is the dude bros call Elsa over again and are like, what is this? She’s like, those are tortillas. They’re like, what? They are tortillas del also.

Todd: She is totally making fun of them. It’s hilarious. 

Craig: Oh my god. It’s hilarious. But the tortillas reveal things. Um, Tylers are etchings of him, like photorealistic etchings of him taking pictures of the food. Um, the elderly couple, um, it’s mostly pictures of them, but there is one picture of. The husband with another woman dining, I believe with another woman, a younger woman.

Mm-hmm. The dude bros. There’s some like, uh, I don’t know, bank forms or something. Or books or something. Yeah. Uhhuh that shows that they’ve been embezzling or something like that. 

Todd: John, like Zamo, this is is like an image of a movie he was in like called Calling Doctor. Doctor. Yeah. Something around Sunshine.

Sunshine, yeah. And it was, you get the impression as he’s talking about, as it was a pretty bad movie he was in. 

Craig: Yeah. But I think that part’s funny cuz he’s like, he’s, see, he’s proud of it. Like, he’s like, ah, doctor Snapchat. Um, so basically what we find out is that they all have secrets. That’s finally, then there’s a new course which is somebody’s mess.

Do you remember? Or it’s called The Mess. 

Todd: It’s called The Mess. Yeah. Jeremy. They, the next dish is Jeremy’s as 

Craig: as a viewing audience. And knowing kind of what kind of movie you’re getting into, you absolutely have it’s 100% clear what’s going to happen because they start laying out tarps, like clear plastic tarps on the floor.

They pull clear plastic drapes behind the kitchen, and the chef and this young chef are standing on this. I don’t even know. Like I, I’m not sure I get the point. 

Todd: This is the part that bothered me. Um, just the idea of it. Obviously I know it’s a movie, obviously I know they’re trying to make a point and to be funny or whatever, but like basically he stands there and the chef walks around him and says, Jeremy has always wanted to cook with me ever since he was a little kid.

He finally got his chance and he came here to the kitchen and he was able to work with me cuz he wants to be as good as me, but he’s never, you’re never going to be as good as me, are you? You’re always gonna be a lousy cook. You’re never gonna get any better, blah, blah, blah. Right. And as he’s saying this to Jeremy, Jeremy’s just like, you know, a soldier at attention.

Yes, chef. Yes, chef. Right. But also he starts crying and he says, this is Jeremy’s own dish of his own design the mess. And then Jeremy pulls out a gun and shoots himself in the mouth. That was stark and 

Craig: Right. And it’s, I like, because he can never. Achieve what he dreams to achieve. I guess just end it 

Todd: like, well, I think that, you know, he’s got a little cult thing going here, right?

I mean Oh, totally. So, 

Craig: you know, because as it comes down to it, they are there to punish all of these people. They, uh, are gonna feed them all, and then they’re all going to die there. Not just the guests, but the staff too. And the staff is a hundred percent on board. Yeah. Like, they’re just to, 

Todd: they’re. And this is, this is, I think this is the point.

Like I said, look, it’s a movie. It’s fine. And it’s a comedy. It’s a very black comedy. And this is the part where it kind of crossed into this territory that made me personally and just emotionally feel uncomfortable is this, this kind of shit happens, right? This is like Jonestown. This is like Waco. This is like, uh, you know, really disturbing religious cults that do terrible things to children.

Like people get on board with crazy stuff because they have a crazy guy. And I guess we might as well say this guy basically. Obviously he’s disturbed, but he’s reached this point in his career where he feels like, um, nobody appreciates the food anymore. Um, nobody appreciates what he’s doing. People don’t taste right.

They don’t taste, they just eat. And he’s got a, he’s got a whole long list of grievances and he just thinks they’re all the problem. He, he’s got a beef with his angel investor. He’s got a beef with, you know, the, the industry as a whole. And these rich people who he says are takers, right? Whereas he is a giver.

So he’s like, we’re the givers. You are the takers, almost Like these people are insatiable and nothing, he’s constantly being criticized. Nothing is ever gonna be good enough for them, and they’re just continually demanding. So that’s why he’s gonna kill himself and everybody else there. Is it kind of final act of revenge?

Craig: know, and it like, uh, it’s, it’s pretty convoluted. It makes more, like, it makes more sense in the, in the context of the movie, right? Like when you watch the movie, 

Todd: everything’s doled out in a way that you know is palatable. Thank you. 

Craig: It is. But, and I get what he’s, you know, high concept. I get what he’s going at with the, the givers and the takers and how, you know, the people who take, the only people who c who can, who have access to his food are people who don’t even really appreciate it.

And because of that, he has lost his passion. Passion, yeah. He, he’s, he’s lost his desire to help people or to serve people. And that’s why he’s drawn to Margot. He knows right away that she’s out of place. Well, first of all, Elsa tells him that she’s not the right person, but he can just sense something about her, uh, in the way that she stands up to Tyler in the way that, um, she refuses to eat, uh, some things if she doesn’t want to, even though he insists and so much comes to light.

Uh, but basically, Comes to is he pulls her in the back and he is like, you’re not one of 

Todd: them. I recognize a member of the service industry when I see 

Craig: one. Right. Uh, exactly. And as it, it turns out she’s an escort. And again, when you go back and look at the interactions between her and Tyler, it makes sense.

It no longer looks like a relationship. Mm-hmm. It looks like an a transaction. Um, and, and everything that they say supports that. I mean, it’s just so cleverly done. One of her clients had been the elderly gentleman and there’s a whole messed up, sad story there. No time for it, but yeah. Um, he asks her, do you enjoy.

Serving your customers. And she says, I used to. And so they have this kinship and that, you know, they’re both givers. They both live to serve, but, um, they’ve lost their passion 

Todd: for it. And he says she needs to make a decision by a certain time. He sets a, an actual like egg time or whatever, and says, you need to make a decision eventually whether you’re going to join us on the giving side or stay there on the taking side.

And so 

Craig: much happens. Yeah. The, the, the old merry guy tries to leave and they cut off his finger. And, um, one of the, for one of the courses, they take them all outside and make the men run and they. Chase them. And 

Todd: the thing that I’m thinking about at this point in the movie is actually called out, which is again, why I think this movie is so cleverly written, is because I felt like it was always one step ahead of me and even anticipating what I as a viewer was going to think and then answering it in a satisfactory way.

You know? And one of the things I’m thinking, look, she’s the only one who is, you know, just like completely not on board. He, you know, as soon as this guy shoots his, him, kills himself in front of everybody, they are all suitably. This isn’t such a parody that everyone goes and Oh, jolly good show. You know, like they all think this is effed up and many of them try to leave like the old guy.

But yeah, they all sort of, he’s like very sort of convinced like, everybody sit down, don’t worry. This is part of the menu. This is all part of the menu. And the, you parse it through the what the, what the critic was saying earlier and what she kind of says in order to calm herself down as well as her compatriot.

Like, look, there’s probably, it’s probably just fake. Like this is, you know what he does? He puts on a performance, right? Right. This is part of the performance that’s all meant to evoke this emotion. Well, she’s right, but this is very real. What’s happening to them. And you have to be stupid to not see that at some point, if you’re in this situation as he hangs as an angel investor outside and dips them in the water, all this crazy shit happens.

And these people, more or less, Go along with it. They’re not happy about it, but they, they are putting up their own barriers, you know what I mean? It’s like, it’s like their 

Craig: own, there are heavies, like there are a few big, they’re blocking ’em and stuff. Yeah. Like blocking the doors and stuff, but, but, The chef even calls this out later.

This is what 

Todd: I’m getting to. Yeah, yeah. She runs out, he gives her like, um, an errand to run. So she goes out to run the errand, but she secretly goes to the chef’s house, which they clearly anticipated cuz there’s somebody watching her. But anyway, um, and she runs across an old room of his, uh, looks like kind of dressed up like very sparsely, but maybe with trinkets and things from his childhood.

She sees a picture of him serving a burger when he was like 16. It says like, my first job was something. Yeah. He was employee of. Yeah, employee the month at just a burger flipping place. And then she finds a CB radio, which she calls because they don’t have cell phone service on the island, but she uses a CB to call for help.

And sure enough, a boat comes by and you can see it through the window cuz they all have a view of the water. And the chef says to all of them, you’ll be tempted to ask him for help to plead even this would be unwise. He cannot help you. Ask yourselves two things. One, if you really want to be responsible for the death of an innocent man, and two, ask yourselves this entire evening, why didn’t you all try harder to fight back, to get out of here?

Honestly, you probably could have something to think about. And that’s, that’s exactly what I was thinking. But you know what I mean. It’s like there was just such a. They didn’t want to be rude. They wanted to think the best, and this is how people get lured into doing things or being party to things, uh, or not opposing things that when in hindsight like.

Were you stupid? But this happens like, to people, it’s like cult typing. Oh, it would happen to me. It’s life. It would happen to me too. You know? And so this is the bit of the movie that just like I was thinking about for quite a while, as much as this is a parody and as absurd as it kind of is, there is that aspect of it that’s, uh, you know, it’s not actually that far out of the realm of possibility given the right circumstances.

That’s true. And so, yeah. And then, so then going back to that guy’s suicide, like, that just fucking bothered me. I’m sorry. I just like had a hard time sleeping. Just thinking about the idea of it. Yeah, 

Craig: I get what you’re saying. I, I don’t, I don’t know. Maybe, maybe the, uh, I don’t know what the, I wanna say like, the ridiculousness, it’s not that ridiculous, like it is within the realm of possibilities and these types of things do happen.

I, I get what you’re saying. I just think for me, it was far enough removed from reality, right? The, I, I don’t know, whatever reason it didn’t bother me as much. One of the, okay, so when it comes down to it at the very end, I don’t remember what she chooses, but he ultimately decides like, no, you’re one of them.

You know, go out, it’s time for the final course or something. And she objects and says, I don’t like your food. 

Todd: I don’t like your food, and I’m still hungry. Yeah. 

Craig: Uh, I don’t like your food and I’d like to send it back. You’ve taken the joy out of eating. Every dish has been an intellectual exercise, not something you wanna sit and enjoy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You’ve failed and you’ve bored me in the worst part. It is. I’m still hungry.

Todd: It’s really smart, actually. 

Craig: Really smart. Smart. It’s genius. And then he is like, well, you’re, he’s like, you’re still hungry. Well, what do you. And she’s like, what do you have? He’s like, we have everything. And she says, I want a cheeseburger and a real cheeseburger. Not some fancy deconstructed 

Todd: bullshit. Oh, and this is where Ralph finds is such a good actor.

Like you just see this like very subtle light come on behind his eyes. Like, like this is something that he’s been waiting for his whole life. You know, for somebody to ask him for a cheeseburger, cuz he, he looks at her and suddenly it’s just, again, it’s very subtle acting. But, and then he goes, I will make you the best cheeseburger that you’ve ever eaten.

Uhhuh. And he goes, and God, it looked like the best cheeseburger. Well, the way, well see, that’s the 

Craig: thing. The way that it’s, because it’s filmed the same way that they have filmed the construction of every other dish. Yeah. And when you film something like that, it looks beautiful. And I think that’s kind of part of the point, you know, like, I think that’s part of.

The point that they’re trying to make. Yeah. But he does, he makes her this gorgeous diner style cheeseburger with like grilled onion and American cheese. Cuz she specifically asked for American cheese and he’s like, American cheese is the best cheese for a cheeseburger. 

Todd: That’s exactly, it’s like, it’s like cheese under a spell at this point.

It’s so cute. I love it. I love it. 

Craig: But even that I think is, you know, kind of com American cheeses, you know, everybody, the whole world looks down their nose of American cheese, which is fair cuz it’s really not even cheese, but it is mighty good on a cheeseburger. Oh, it’s 

Todd: perfect. It really is true. I mean, there’s no better cheese, 

Craig: but I think that’s kind of the point.

Like, you know, he. As, as fancy as he is, the true artist in him knows that American cheese is the best. 

Todd: Right? And that cheeseburger’s amazing. And he 

Craig: serves it to her and she takes a bite of it. She’s like, Hmm, that’s a cheeseburger.

It’s great. But she’s like, but yeah, 

Todd: I think my eyes were a little bigger than my stomach. Can you wrap this up to go? And so she’s got this little loophole and this is maybe where, this is where I’ve seen some people are critical of the ending cuz they think it’s almost too clever. I don’t, I disagree. I think the whole movie was, was mining this.

So I didn’t have a problem with the ending at all. In fact, I thought it was, it was very clever. I think 

Craig: it’s very clever because I think that in the context of the movie, we’re supposed to believe that she genuinely touched something in him. Yes. And she reminded him. Of the passion that he felt for serving people food that they actually enjoyed and, and yeah.

And I think that either he was rewarding her for being clever or she earned her exit. Yeah. You know, like, I feel like, yeah, she gets it all right. You can go. And, and I thought that it was really cool that she walks out and she has a moment of pause where she looks back because she realizes that everybody else is, she hasn’t, she hasn’t freed anybody but herself.

Todd: They’re all gonna flame up in a giant s’mores party. And they 

Craig: all, they all kind of look at her like, It’s cool. Yeah, right. They’re like, good for it, girl. And the, uh, yeah, the, the older lady, Judith Light even, you know, kind of waves her out, like, like go, go. Um, and she does, and she goes away on a boat and they start the last course, which is, uh, s’mores that they pour all over the floor and drape all over the guests who just sit there.

Now, this is one of the weird parts, like it almost seemed like they accepted their fate, like yeah. Mm-hmm. He’s. We all deserve, we should definitely just burn 

Todd: up. No, I mean, it’s definitely a movie, you know, at this point. Like, I mean, it’s, it’s a metaphor, it’s a whatever. It’s making it social commentary, you know, these, I didn’t expect this to be realistic, you know, cuz Right.

So I, I, I give it a pass for this 

Craig: and she sits on the boat watching the island burn, eating her leftover cheeseburger, and then that’s the end of the movie. And I thought that it was a very satisfying ending. And, you know, watching the, you know, they’re wearing like chocolate caps and watching the chocolate meltdown over their faces as the flames surround them.

It, it looked really cool and it was, yeah. Uh, a neat ending and I liked that. But I was, two things bothered. First of all, we didn’t talk about the fact that Tyler knew all along Yes. That they were all going to die. Yes. And so he paid an escort to join him knowing that she would die. Yes. 

Todd: That’s why he’s the biggest douche.

Craig: Yeah. And obviously the chef doesn’t like that because he humiliates Tyler and convinces him to kill himself. 

Todd: Well, that was my favorite part of the movie, by the way. Yeah. I laughed out loud. I, I must have laughed for a good, solid five minutes. Poor, poor Tyler. The chef picks him up and he’s like, you, you know, you know all about food, don’t you?

You’re a real foodie, aren’t you? Like, you know, you’ve watched all the shows, you understand you’ve studied me and all that. And he, he puts him in a chef’s outfit and you see Tyler like, like, this is the best thing that’s ever happened to him on his life. And he says, I’m gonna write your name on it. Even pulls out like a Sharpie, writes Tyler on it, you know, in this janky way.

And he says, Tyler’s going to give us a cooking demonstration. Come into the kitchen, Tyler, we’re all curious to see all of your technique. And so he forces everybody to wander around him. And Tyler is just flipping out. He’s like, oh. Oh, okay. And he just like grabs a thing of lamb. He’s like, what do you need, Tyler?

What do you need? Uh, uh, lamb. Okay. Okay. Give him some lamb. But we’ve got everything. Tyler, what else do you need? Uh, some garlic or whatever. He’s like, oh, shallots. Okay. And then as he’s looking over it, Tyler, who doesn’t know what the he’s doing. Yeah. Sitting there, he’s like, oh, very interesting, innovative way of cutting shallots.

I’ve never seen this before. Tyler, thanks for teaching that to us. And then what’s done is like undercooked thing, and it’s, it’s gross. Yeah. It’s so gross. And it’s, I laughed so hard at this bit because you hate Tyler, right? All the way through this, like you say at this bef by this point you’ve learned that he deliberately brought her on.

Now you kind of know why. It’s not just because he’s bought into everything the chef’s saying, but he knows they’re, he’s the only person there who knows they’re all gonna die. So like, He’s just gonna eat and eat and eat and take the pictures and do whatever. But why explanation? Why is he taking pictures?

Yeah. The pictures thing is weird, right? Like, why would he do that? That doesn’t make any 

Craig: sense. You’re gonna be dead at the 

Todd: end. Like, I just thought it was probably just his habit. Right? This is, this guy 

Craig: does this all the time. Yeah. Excessive kinda can’t, I mean, he, there’s, there’s clearly something wrong with him.

Like, oh yeah, he’s, he’s not right in the head. That, that bothered me a little bit, that he was taking pictures. The other thing that bothered me is I don’t think that all of those people deserve to die now. Yeah. 

Todd: Well they, they kind of call that out too though, and make fun of it. Well, right. 

Craig: The. The assistant, the, the movie star’s assistant, her only sin was graduating from college without, without student loan debt.

That was her only sin. Yeah. That was 

Todd: hilarious. I guess. I mean, this is where it just got silly. It was just a joke though. He goes to John Leguizamo and he says, you, you were in that movie, you know, you did that movie calling Dr. Sunshine. And on my one day off from work when I needed nothing more than rest, I watched that movie and it was terrible.

So this is why you’re dying. And then the assistant pipes up and yeah, he’s like, well, where’d you go to college? Brown student loans? No, you’re dying too. 

Craig: And I, I, I guess Judith Light was, you know, rich and unappreciative, but it’s not like she cheated or anything, you know? I don’t 

Todd: know. You’re right. It doesn’t all track.

Some of it’s just there just to be funny for sure. Right. And 

Craig: that’s fine because overall, I really, really liked this movie. Oh God. I was really looking. I was, I was super looking forward to it, and I was not disappointed. Um, Alan watched it with me. He found it very interesting, offered to watch it with me again.

Mm-hmm. Uh, for the 

Todd: podcast, I have at least two friends. I wanna show this too. I, I 

Craig: would argue that it is a horror movie. There’s some violence and things and that, and, and things that we glossed over that we didn’t mention at all. Like, there’s a big fight, uh, between Elsa and um, Mar. Uh, a very bloody violent fight.

There’s so much plot, it’s very plot driven. It’s very character driven, so it, we can’t do it justice at all. Even on a second viewing, you pick up on so much more. Um, it’s just, it’s a very good movie. I would very much recommend it. And I think that even people who are not necessarily big time horror fans, uh, might still like it.

Todd: I think it’s good because I think this captures a little bit of the cultural zeitgeist. Like, I think by now most all of us are familiar with this scene because these f movies, these shows are so popular on television. You know what I mean? I, I just think at all levels. Uh, that’s why I just, I watched it.

I loved it. I was like, this movie I felt like was kind of made for me and absolutely. Is horror. Is anybody saying it’s not horror? God? Oh, I don’t know. Yeah. I 

Craig: mean, it’s just, I mean, 

Todd: it’s like cult type. 

Craig: I don’t, yeah, I guess I don’t know why I feel the need to defend it on that level because it is, it is.

Todd: Horror. Well, it was nice coming into it, not knowing much about it at all. Like I didn’t Yeah, yeah, man. So much to unpack here. It’s too bad we don’t have that much time. Yeah. It was a good time. Well, thank you again, Craig, for, uh, suggesting this, and, uh, thank you guys for listening to us tuning in another week.

If you enjoyed this podcast, please share with a friend. If there’s a movie you would like us to do, please uh, go online and just Google “two guys and a chainsaw podcast”. You can find us on any one of our social media areas, or, uh, you can join our patrons, uh, podcast and, uh, get some extra features, couple minisodes every month and influence of the requests that we do.

Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

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