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For our third Halloween-themed episode this year, we go dark. Extremely dark.

This crowd-funded unrated indie film became enough of a sleeper hit on streaming services to warrant an unrated sequel with a groundbreaking release in theaters nationwide. We don’t know how they managed to pull that off, but our mini-top hats go off to the creators of Art the Clown, a successful new addition to the horror pantheon of ghouls.

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Terrifier (2016)

Episode 317, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, here we are, week three of our Halloween countdown, all the way to October 31st, our very favorite holiday. And a great season for watching horror movies that are related to Halloween in some way, shape, or form. And I believe the horror movie that we are talking about today actually takes place on Halloween.

Yep. Or at least around Halloween. Right? Yeah. And this, uh, movie was your idea. And it’s one that I’ve been wanting to see for a while since we had seen the movie All Hallow’s Eve, which I think we watched last year for Halloween. Uh, and it included a short in there the last. That, uh, I think, I think was the most powerful of all of the shorts in that anthology.

And, uh, it was, uh, starring a clown that has been deemed since then. Art The Clown, Killer Clown. And the movie that we’re watching today is the full version movie featuring Art The Clown, 2016’s Terrifier, of which I believe there is a sequel that’s. Coming out this year has already come out. Yeah. By 

Craig: the time this airs it’ll be out.

Todd: Fantastic. So Terrifier 2 if you wanna work up for that. Um, Watch Terrifier which is the movie we’re watching now. Uh, the movie’s directed by a guy named Damien Leone, who also seems to be a special effects artist. He had done too much before. That Terrifier short in All Hallow’s Eve. Uh, he directed another short before that and then did All Hallow’s Eve.

Some must be straight to video movie called Frankenstein versus The Mummy. And then, uh, this movie Terrifier, which I believe was partially backed online, uh, by some backers on Indiegogo. Yeah, you can see them. In the credit. So it’s certainly a labor of love that comes out of the enthusiasm for that clown on that short, and people wanting to see more of this, just incredibly murderous clown.

Like I said, I’d been wanting to see it before just because of how notorious it is. But I wasn’t actually looking forward to watching it, to be completely honest with you, cuz I kind of knew it might not be my kind of movie. And anyway, I, I have to say, I don’t think it really is my kind of movie , but we’ll talk about more of that later.

Uh, that’s my history with that. It’s my first time seeing it. How about you, Craig? 

Craig: Uh, I know that the first time that I saw All Hallow’s Eve was when I was on a, a trip with my mom. She was traveling for business. I, it was summertime, so I was off and available, so I just went along for the ride. Um, and she, because she was, it was a working trip.

She would need to go to bed early and I didn’t have much else to do. Stay in and watch movies on my laptop. And we shared a, a room, you know, double beds in one room. So I would sit there in the dark while she slept and watch movies on my laptop. And I watched All Hallows Eve and I thought it was surprisingly dark, like I thought it was good, but I was surprised by how dark it was.

Yeah. And I thought that Art the Clown was really scary. And at that, Terrifier was already out. I just had been unaware, uh, of either of them. So I’m pretty sure that on during that same week, uh, I watched Terrier as well, and I, I just, I felt it’s very much in keeping with, um, All Hallow’s Eve in terms of tone and style.

Maybe All Hallow’s Eve was a little bit more stylistic in some places, but, uh, again, really dark, shockingly violent. But I do think that, um, the character of Art the Clown has the potential to be a mainstay. As a villain in the horror genre for, for a while. 

Todd: Yeah, I would agree with you there. I, and I think they’re building something here that hopefully for them has some potential to stay.

We’re always looking for unique villains with unique powers and things like that. And at, and at first glance, a killer clown doesn’t seem that unique. But what makes this clown more unique is, I think two things. One, He has a different look. It’s not the colorful clown you would invite to your kid’s birthday party, right?

It’s like, A classic black and white mime, almost really uhhuh, in some kind of clown attire with these really sick looking teeth and this, this huge disgusting smile on his face. And so, yeah. So like the look of the clown is intriguing, I think even if you know nothing about it. And you don’t even watch the movie.

Yeah. You know, you see pictures of it and you’re like, Oh, that is, that’s different. So, So it’s got that going for it as a setting it apart from everything else. And then the second thing is just, I can’t even put this clown in the same camp as well. You got Freddy, right? You got Freddy who’s jokey and, and and quippy.

And you have these other villains who have seem to have a sort of a personality. They put themselves out there, there’s something off about them, but they have this sort of tragic backstory or some kind of backstory that makes them the way they. And eventually, even if for the first movie we don’t get that, subsequent movies will paint that in for us and we get a rounded out kind of villain where if it’s possible to have some sympathy, you know, for villain sometimes.

Sometimes we’ll wedge that in and, and we kind of like that. You know, Mike Meyers, the troubled youth, Freddie, who was horrible person in real life as a child molester, but then was burned to death at the stake by the parents. So, you know, Jason, who drowned in the lake, uh, by campers who weren’t paying attention.

And so he’s coming back to, to get his revenge. There’s a little bit of tragedy in all that. And there’s a little bit of backstory that rounds that character route. And in some of those cases we get it in the very first movie. And so I, I don’t wanna say we have ultimate sympathy for the vims, but there’s just something there, right?

That gives us a, a little bit of an emotional, um, edge. Like this isn’t just pure evil in front of us. You can latch onto that, uh, this guy. If there’s going to be a backstory about him, we haven’t heard it yet. Right, And and they almost seem to be deliberately not interested. Uhhuh in providing us not only a backstory or any motivation at all for him doing what he’s doing, except the fact that this is just a bad guy.

And probably supernatural. 


Craig: Well, I, I, I think that that’s what makes, aside from the fact that, um, you know, it’s, it’s very, very violent that that’s, that’s scary in and of itself, but I think that part of what makes him so frightening is that there’s no rhyme or reason to him. Like, Hmm, he just picks you out and relentlessly.

Pursues you and, and violently kills you for no apparent reason. Like he doesn’t necessarily, you didn’t do anything. He’s not somebody, you know, you didn’t wrong him in some way. Um, he’s just this, uh, psychotic, persistent. Evil killer. You know? Does he have motivation? Who knows? It it, like you said, if he does, we don’t know what it is.

Is he just a guy? I mean, we, You see him at the very beginning, getting ready. Yeah. Like putting on pancake makeup and where he doesn’t wear makeup, like under his gloves and stuff appears to be human flesh. Mm-hmm. But he’s also got, uh, I don’t know, his features are just a little bit off, like, and, and the, the man who plays him in this film and in the upcoming sequel, his name is David Howard Thornton.

Uh, I’m looking at his picture on IMDB right now. He’s a good looking guy. Mm-hmm. so, I’m sure that it’s prosthetics and the makeup, but he just looks kind of off. Like his nose is a little bit too big. His chin is a little bit too protrusive. And that in combination with the stark black and white makeup, the big black lips, the d the black circles around the eyes.

He’s scary. Yeah, I, I think, I mean, I, I think that this is a scary movie and a lot of it I think is due. To, uh, David Howard Thornton’s acting. He had experience as a mime and used that, and it’s obvious his, his movement is purposeful and, and graceful and mime like. Um, he, he doesn’t speak at all. Mm-hmm.

which is unsettling also. I mean, he doesn’t even make noise. There are several, uh, times throughout the movie where he’s. , like he’ll get hit in the head with a board or get a nail shoved through his foot or something, but he never makes any noise. He’ll mime looks of pain, but he never makes any noise. And you, you talked about he’s got this really disgusting, like his teeth are disgusting.

He’s got this really menacing smile and he does, It’s this big, awkward, scary smile. In almost an instant, he can morph that into a sear. Yeah, that’s really intense and intimidating. I, I don’t know, from the beginning, from from when you see him in the beginning, which isn’t the first thing you see. There’s, there’s an opening scene first, but as soon as he appears on screen, ugh.

I think he’s spooky. . 

Todd: Yeah. I mean, no doubt. He really is. And so a unique character, if nothing else. I think sometimes, and we’ve talked about this when we’ve watched some of the more boring slashers from the eighties, sometimes a killer without a clear motivation is irritating. Uhhuh in a slasher movie. Uh, I’m not sure why.

I mean, maybe we feel cheated. Maybe we think what’s the point? Right. Maybe, uh, also without a clear motivation, they have no clear. Right. So it’s hard to tell what makes a person. It’s also hard to tell what makes a person safe and what doesn’t. So, you know, who do we root for? Who do we say, No, don’t do that.

You know you’re gonna die. Uh, in, in, in the case of a killer with no motivation, it’s all up in the air. Anybody can die at any time. Mm-hmm. , and sometimes that’s done in a scary way and sometimes it’s really boring cuz it makes the movie really predictable and, uh, you know, who’s gonna be the final girl.

Right. Well, if, who cares? I mean, there is no final girl necessarily in some of these movies. Right. Yeah. So it’s, it’s a complicated question. I guess the question is, does this movie deliver on all of its elements in a way that’s satisfying? So like you said, the movie starts out, it’s showing a, a video on a tv, like a little old style TV that’s sitting on a grungy desktop somewhere.

Mm-hmm. , and it’s a woman, uh, who’s interviewing, I think we find out that her name is Monica 

Craig: and she was in, um, all Halo Eve. She played the babysitter in the babysitter segment. Oh. Either in all, either in all Halo Eve. For all Halo Eve too. I don’t remember which one it was. I think 

Todd: it was the first one.

Okay, fair enough. I didn’t notice that. Yeah. So she’s interviewing this woman and, um, at first we don’t see the woman’s face, but she’s talking about, So you were the only surviving. Of the Miles County massacre. Now, when we left off, we were 

Craig: talking about the moment you woke up from the coma. Do you remember your initial reaction when you first saw your face?

Yes. Would you like to share that with us? 

Todd: I wish I was Ted. And then eventually we see this woman’s face and it is, Horrible. Oh yeah. I, I, they’ve made no attempt at reconstructive alactic surgery on this woman . Right. And so her face alone is terrifying. Uh, she’s missing an eye. It’s completely disfigured.

Her other eye seems to be there, but it’s not. Right. And she says, I wished I was dead. As this is playing. And we’re hearing this, like you said earlier, We see closeup shots. It’s very much like, uh, the beginning of street, Niam Street. Yeah. Where you see, not, not in full detail, but in closeups this clown putting together his makeup, putting his makeup on, sticking sharpening tools, drilling holes in other tools, that kind of thing.

What, what, what? There’s one other piece of important information, right? They said something about the body disappearing from the coroner’s office the morning of the attack, right? 

Craig: I don’t remember if they said it. I didn’t hear it. The only other thing, you know, the, the interview happens and this disfigured woman says that she would rather be dead because she can’t do anything because she’s a horrible sight.

And children run away screaming and it just makes her feel terrible. And then the interview’s over and we see the. Interviewer, Monica, talking to somebody on the phone, whether it’s her boyfriend or a business associate, I don’t know, but she’s very, Callow and, um, unsympathetic, you know, talking about the woman that she had just interviewed and she’s in her dressing room and she says something like, You know, if I ever look like that, just put me out of my misery.

And she turns around and is, Attacked by the disfigured woman. And you see, I think the disfigured woman like gouges her eyes out with her thumbs. Yeah. And that’s, that’s the opening ki you know, formula. You, you’ve got your opening kill, but we don’t know where we’re gonna go from there. And then it just jumps to these, uh, two drunk girls.

Their names are Tara and Dawn. Tara is play. She’s blonde girl. She’s played by. Played by a girl named Jenna Cannell. Dawn, uh, is played by Catherine Corcoran. Um, I looked at these young ladies, uh, pages. They have worked, you know, they’ve, they’ve both done other movies. In fact, I think they were both filming other things at the same time that they were filming this.

So they are young working actresses and, and they’re coming back from apparently a costume party because they. In costume. Yeah. Like, you know, sexy costumes or whatever, and they immediately see Art the clown, you know, walking around, uh, on the streets, carrying a black garbage bag full of who knows what.

Dawn, I, I think Dawn is the blonde one. Do you remember? I, I’ll have em mixed up the whole time if I don’t. Yeah. D 

Todd: they call, she calls her D. Yeah. Tara is the brunette and Dawn is the blond. 

Craig: Blond. Okay. So, uh, Don messes with him, I don’t know, just like cat calls him or something. Um, but then they decide instead of driving immediately, they’re gonna go into this little pizza shop to sober up and Art comes in and messes with them in there.

And, yeah, again, I, I don’t know how else to describe it. It’s, it’s scary. He just sits down in a table, kind of opposite of them and just stares, like, just stares at Tara. Yeah, 

Todd: while the, and it’s, it’s creepy while the pizza shop owner is on the phone and, and, and tells him he is gonna get to with him in a minute.

Seems like he’s dealt with weirdos like this before . Well, sure. He’s not entirely, uh, Um, concerned or disturbed or doesn’t really even comment much on the fact this guy’s in this creepy ass clown makeup. I, I have to say, like, one thing about the movie that I didn’t know what to make of and really disappointed me at first was the overall look of it.

When it first came up, uh, all we got were credits. They were credits on a black screen, and they looked cheap. You know, they looked like they were made on someone’s. Honestly, as the movie goes on through these scenes, it has a very shot on video look. Um, it’s well lit. Uh, you know, the movie’s well made, first of all.

I mean, you’ve gotta say it’s well lit. The angles are great, the cinematography is good, but it really looks almost, it has that look of something that was almost like shot on someone’s camcorder. Not like an eighties camcorder, but like an iPhone today. Mm-hmm. , you know, I was a little disappointed at that at first.

Remember in uh, all Hall’s Eve, he was obviously going for like a Grindhouse type feel. Yeah. And I feel like that’s what he’s going for with this movie too. In all Hall’s Eve, they really made it like throw back grindhouse, like they. Put some film grain on it Yes. And made it look as though it was shot on film.

And that, um, helped for me because I’m used to those Grindhouse movies. I’m used to those cheaply shot movies from the seventies that that just kind of looked bad. And, uh, and that helped for me get into the spirit of what this was going to be. A grind grindhouse style film that was gonna be bold and shocking just to keep my attention and probably have some bad acting and some bad other stuff.

So, like I said, I was a little disappointed with it at first, and then I thought about it later and I thought, you know, this is basically the Grindhouse Cinema of today. , right? Mm-hmm. cheaply shot direct to video type stuff often looks like this and the. It also has a similar effect where you realize, well, okay, like with the Grindhouse movies, there were no rules, right?

So that was kind of what’s thrilling about them. Um, they’re not going for ratings, they’re not going for a mainstream audience. And you know that the minute they come on this is kinda the same way, right? I mean, shot on video, direct to video type productions. They all kind of look like this. And, uh, also, you know, they can kind of do what.

Even though it doesn’t have that cinematic look that we’re used to, I guess it’s its own grindhouse type style of today. So I kind of came around on that. Although I think just for me, having been familiar with all the Grindhouse movies in the seventies and that particular aesthetic, that aesthetic would’ve improved the look of the movie for me and maybe my 

Craig: reception of it.

Yeah, I don’t know. I. It worked really well for the short, I thought, um, for a full feature, I think I would get a little bit tired of it. Uh, yeah, it didn’t, it didn’t bother me that, um, this was a little cleaner, but, you know, it, it was. Largely, or mostly crowdfunded. I, Google tells me that the budget was $35,000, which is Wow.

Nothing, you know, for, can’t believe for fee. Yeah. So considering that, I think it looks really good. I think that, uh, this, uh, director has. A unique style and is concerned with style. Yes. Uh, so, so often, you know, esp especially cheap and I watch a lot of them cheap, you know, quickly made, uh, movies with pretty, but talentless actors sometimes they’re just awful and they’re not concerned with style at all.

They probably literally did shoot it on their iPhone, you know, just direct, straightforward shots in day. Environments and it looks cheap. It looks like something that given a tripod, you know, just about anybody could do this, I think looks better. I do think that he’s concerned with style. It is dark even, you know, just, uh, and, and I don’t know much about this.

I, I couldn’t read, uh, I couldn’t find a lot about the technical stuff. But, um, even set decoration and setting and, and those types of things, it. There was a lot of attention paid. Yeah. So I don’t know. It didn’t, it didn’t bother me. Ultimately. This really isn’t my type of movie either. I’m not, and especially the older I get, gorgeous doesn’t really do it for me.

I am impressed when it’s done well, and I do think that it’s done well here. It’s not my favorite thing to watch that, but this movie for me, makes up for it in its originality and, uh, its style. I guess I’m not articulating myself very well. Ultimately, I guess what I’m saying is I walk away from this movie thinking, Oh, that’s a good movie.

I understand why people talk about it. Mm-hmm. I don’t need to watch it a bunch more times. . 

Todd: Right? . 

Craig: But like even some of the stuff, you know, some of the, the big scenes that people talk about, I get why they talk about it. It, it’s well done. It’s uh, yeah. Different. So Yeah. But ultimately the story, there’s, there’s not a whole lot to it.

No. The clown eventually like gets up and walks back towards the kitchen. I didn’t know where he was going. It turns out he was in the bathroom, but he gets kicked out. Uh, and he’s acting very silly, but at the same time, a little bit menacing. Um, he had given Tara like a cheap toy ring, like out of one of those gumball machine type things.

What’s her name? Dawn had gone over and like, sat on his lap and taken a bunch of selfies with him, which he looked not at all happy about, but mm-hmm. , he’s not really doing anything up to this point. He’s just acting creepy. It is Halloween, you know. Yeah, you can give him that. Dawn’s not worried about it.

She just thinks he’s some weirdo. She’s not worried about it. And eventually the girls leave, we find out after the girls leave, so they don’t know this, but the clown had apparently smeared feces and other filth all over the bathroom, and that’s what had got him. Kicked out. Yeah. And when the girls get back to their car, they find that their tires have been slit.

Um, it’s the middle of the night, they don’t know what to do. So Tara calls her sister Victoria, who’s like a graduate student, and Victoria’s gonna come pick them up, but it’s going, you know, it’s gonna take her a while to get there. So, They’re just hanging out in the car and then Tara has to pee and she gets this, uh, exterminator to let her into one of these locked buildings.

And it ends up being kind of an abandoned rundown building that they’re fumigating and that’s where most of the stuff takes place. But we don’t get really into the action in there until we get the first big gore extravaganza at the pizza place. 

Todd: Yeah, back in the pizza shop, one of the two guys who’s there, not the owner, but his, uh, employee is back there cleaning the bathroom and shouting out to Steve, the owner, and not getting much of a response.

And eventually he gets up and walks back in there into the kitchen area, and, uh, when he turns around, he notices I, I guess it, it pans through. I think this was supposed to be a thing. I don’t think it really played, but it pans through there and there’s a pumpkin. Like a jack of lantern sitting on the counter and of all things to be cgi In this movie, I read that that pumpkin was CGI

Yeah, because the, uh, director decided at the last minute, Oh, he needed just a little bit more Halloween stuck in there. So Uhhuh, he stuck a jackal lanter on there. But then it kind of thematically works because as soon as he walks back into there, you see that the jackal land’s not there anymore. It’s been replaced by Steve’s head, Uhhuh.

Somehow Art has not only cut off his head, but left his eyes and his mouth burning like 

Craig: candles. Yeah, it’s funny, there are things in this movie. This movie came out in 2016. There are things in this movie that have since popped up in other huge mainstream horror movies, like when we watched the 2018.

Halloween, Michael Myers does this. He, he made one of the cop’s heads into, uh, a Jack Lanter. That’s true. The woman with the horribly disfigured face from the beginning. There is a very, very similar looking character in Jordan Peel’s newest movie. Uh, nope. So who knows if it’s inspiration or if these are just happenstances, but, um, I have a feeling that probably those other filmmakers have seen this movie.

I think it’s notorious enough that they’ve seen it, so I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a little bit of borrowing of imagery in some of these cases. 

Todd: I think you’re probably right. Uh, you really are. I, I, I, and I think there was an older, older, much older movie too, where somebody’s head was carved out as a Jack Alan.

Oh, I’m sure. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so, so anyway, art attacks this guy from behind surprises him, and, uh, first thing he cuts off his hand just brutally with, you know, the guy’s reaching for the phone. He just hacks it right off and then, uh, gets down on top of him and just starts stabbing him in the face, brutally stabbing him in the face over and over again.

It really sets up the tone like what this guy’s all about. He is about absolute just carving people up. He’s just utter, utterly brutal. And the camera does not shy away from it. Pretty much everything that happens, you’re gonna see on screen, You’re gonna see it in closeup, whereas other movies will often cut away at some point or have things happen a little, or at least shake things up a.

By having certain kills happen off screen, you see a blood splatter somewhere? Uh, no. This movie’s up close and personal, uh, and really disgusting. And I think the effects are actually pretty well 

Craig: done. I think they’re good. Mm-hmm. . 

Todd: Oh, that’s where all the money went, ? 

Craig: Yeah. I, I think so. I mean, they look practical.

Um, do they always look 100% true to life? No, but they, but they look. Really good and messy and bloody and tangible, like it looks like something you could reach out and touch. It doesn’t look like a cartoon. It doesn’t look like a video game. Yeah. And you, anybody who listens to this podcast knows that I’m a sucker for practical effects.

So, um, as grizzly as it was, um, Which isn’t necessarily my favorite. I thought it was really well done. Yeah, 

Todd: it was. And it’s kind of funny too because I think at this point Tara still hasn’t come out of the car to go to the bathroom and the two of them are in there talking and they’re saying, Could that clown have, have cut these tires?

And, and Dawn is saying, no. I think he’s just harmless. And at the same time, just dead cuts. Did the Scott Clouds stabbing the guy in? Yeah, . It’s kind of clever. So like you said, uh, Tara’s in there. She asked for the bathrooms, talked to this guy, talked about rats. Do you, Meanwhile, was in the car listening to the radio and I thought it was cute.

There was an ad for a Halloween superstore, on there. And then your classic report about a brutal killer who’s, uh, been, you know, on the loose, the police are on the lookout for who looks like a clown, and, uh, has just killed two people at the pizza shop now. Who else witnessed ? I thought it was just the four of them in the pizza shop.

How they got a bead on the fact that this killer was dressed as a clown. I’m not quite sure. Maybe somebody from outside saw him leave there, walked down the street or something. I didn’t even think about that, but you’re right. It’s funny. Anyway, uh, there’s that and uh, there’s an ambulance that goes by and, uh, when she turns around to look in the seat beside her, cuz she thinks Tara’s gotten back in the.

the clown is there and he kind of does a big surprise, kinda look on his face. Uhhuh, . 

Craig: Uh, and she screams, Yeah, but, but it cuts away, so we don’t know. Mm. What happened to her, And then I think pretty much immediately, Tara has called her sister, but she’s in there. She, well, first of all, she runs into this creepy cat lady like

I had no idea what was going on with this woman. See, there’s this crazy lady who lives in this abandoned building with her daughter Emily, which is just a porcelain doll. But she talks to it and treats it like it’s a. Baby. And she’s just weird and, and Tara just kinda runs into her and is like, Okay, gotta go bye.

And she goes to leave. A silly character. Yeah, she goes to leave, but Art is waiting for her at the door and he starts chasing her. And the next what? I don’t know, at least half hour, feels just very cat and mouse, you know, like mm-hmm. He’ll appear and chase her around and she’ll hide. And this is an old rundown building.

So there’s all kinds of equipment and, uh, machinery and cars and things to hide behind. It’s dimly lit, dirty, grimy. And it’s just cat and mouse. Like she’ll get away for a little bit and then it’ll pop up and it’ll stab her in the leg, and then she’ll get up and she’ll run away and she’ll hide some more, and then he pops up again.

And that goes on for a while. Not so long that it felt tedious. I did think that it was 

Todd: tense. It was tense. I thought this was the most tense part of the movie. Really. 

Craig: I, I guess all I’m getting at is there’s really not much to the plot. Like Yeah, he basically just chases them around and kills them from this point on.

Todd: I mean, it’s, yeah, just one person after another somehow stumbles into there or gets there, or, 

Craig: Well, and there are a couple of good scares. Like at one point she almost gets to the exterminator guy. She’s right behind him, but he has earphones in and so he can’t hear her. And just as he turns around, Reaches out from off, uh, camera and grabs her and puts his hand over her mouth and pulls her away.

So she’s pulled away just the split second before she would’ve been seen. And 

Todd: one of the funny things about art, uh, I guess his trademark, you can just imagine like the, uh, creators of this character sitting around being like, All right, what weapon, what’s his trademark weapon gonna be? And they can’t decide.

I don’t know. Why don’t we just give him a bag full of weapons? He can just choose whatever he wants. ? Yeah, A hesty bag. It’s a clown with the big hefty bag full of scary implements. And after he pulls her away, he has a syringe that he sticks in her neck and injects some kind of drug in there to knock her out.

And when she wakes up, she’s tied to a chair with. Mouth covered and art, uh, goes to his little bag, pawing through it and pulling out various implements and coming at her with them in kind of a mime like way, kind of a terrifying way. Like, Oh, I’m gonna hitch in the face with a hatchet, and then decides no, and then, Oh, I’m gonna saw your neck off with this, with this saw.

Oh no, I’m not gonna do that. But then he, he has holding this saw and he walks in front of her where he has a sheet draped over something and when he takes the sheet off, it is her friend Dawn hung upside. By her legs in front of her from some kind of contraption. Mm-hmm. tears, the girl’s underwear off.

So she’s completely nude by this point and alive, and he walks over there and takes that saw and you know what’s coming seconds before it happens. And it’s even just the knowledge of it is cringy. Mm-hmm. , he takes that saw to, I mean, her legs are kind of spread apart and pointing straight up in the air, the middle of her legs and starts sawing down through her.

Basically sawing her body in half from the crotch. 

Craig: Yeah. And the blood is spraying. And Tara is screaming. He’s kind of joyful in Oh yeah. Woohoo. Oh, he’s totally enjoying himself. And the contrast of the red blood splashing on his white face and his white clothes, and by the end of the movie, he is just saturated in blood.

But, uh, the camera doesn’t linger, but it also doesn’t deny us glimpses. Is happening. I mean, we see this body prop getting sawed through Yeah. In glimpses all the way down to the bottom and, and her intestines are falling out onto the floor. And he, any, I mean, he saws completely through her, It. It’s disgusting.

It’s shocking. I’ve never seen that before. Um, I can’t say with any certainty whether or not it’s been done before, but I haven’t seen it before and it’s shocking and it’s practical. Looks practical. Anyway. Uh, difficult to watch. Disgusting, but, uh, I, I feel, I feel like that’s the most notorious scene when people talk about this movie.

They talk about that kill. 

Todd: Yeah. It’s sort of a, how can you possibly top that moment, you know? Yeah. And, uh, and it’s purely for shock value. I mean, and you know what kind of movie this is? It’s going to linger on the. I’ve 

Craig: read, of course, I, I haven’t seen the sequel yet because, uh, as of this taping, it’s not out.

But that was one of their challenges that they set for themselves, for the sequel, was to top themselves and specifically to top this kill. It’s been screened, um, for some audiences, uh, and the feedback is that they have been successful, that the, the sequel is even. Wilder and gorier and more violent and more creative.

It’s getting really, really positive reviews from the limited people who have seen it. So, whew. I don’t know how much more I can take, but , right? 

Todd: I mean, I’m like, but I know I’ll watch it. I’m like you, I mean I watch it cuz it’s notorious and I, I want, I’m a kind of a completionist in that, you know, I want to see what people are talking about.

We’ve talked about it before. Neither you nor I are, are big gore hounds. We appreciate the special effects and, and the artistry That kind of goes into that aspect of it. And, you know, it can be fun, but ultimately, I’m not usually very interested in seeing a movie whose sole purpose is just to show people brutally being killed in multiple ways on the screen with, without much else going for it.

I, I think this movie has other things going for it, but not much. , you know, the plot, it, it’s, there’s not, there’s hardly any plot. The clown is the saving grace here and his 

Craig: character. I also like that. Um, surprise. Well, it, it surprised me several different times. It, it doesn’t force itself to adhere to any kind of formula or our expectations, right.

For example, I just assumed that Tara would be the final. And they set it up to seem like she’s going to be, after she watches her friend get, uh, brutally, brutally murdered. Somehow she gets away. She, she gets herself. Untied or something. And she sta she, she grabs one of art’s utensils and stabs him in the back and runs, and then she picks up a two by four and waits for him to come and beats the crap out of her, out of him.

Uh, I mean, she’s really getting the best of him. He’s down on the ground, she’s taunting him, telling him to get up. And then this surprised. , he’s down on the ground. He quickly turns towards her and raises a gun and shoots her. That is totally breaking a huge rule. These types of villains and horror movies don’t use guns.

They just don’t. Yeah. Um, and so to see it done, it shocked me. I was gen, I was surprised. I, I will honestly say there was a part of me that. That. Hey, that’s not fair, . 

Todd: Yeah. Well, I think that was the reaction from a lot of fans, even, um, even to all Halls. Eve was like, because he, he whips out a gun as well too in that movie and shoots a guy from a car.

It’s something I never thought about until it happened, you know, I never thought about the fact these killers don’t use guns. Until it happened. I was like, That’s weird. Why is that weird? Oh, yeah. You don’t see guns in slasher movies. It’s, it’s like too easy. Maybe, you know, , like it’s not, it’s just bang your dead and, and slasher movies are really about, you know, the kind of that visceral up close coming right at you being right there, right.

And stabbing you with something. You, 

Craig: the good guys can have guns. The bad guys never do. Mm-hmm. or hardly ever. 

Todd: Yeah. But it’s one of his bag of 

Craig: tricks. Yeah. If, if this were real life, there would be no rules. So why do there have to be rules in the movie? 

Todd: Yeah. So she stabs him in the back as well and runs off.

I think that she’s a little dumb here. Like the taunting him I thought was a little silly. I would’ve thought at this point she would just be beating him relentlessly with that board. Right. Especially when he’s down and he’s vulnerable. Instead, she’s trying to get him up to face. Before she tries to hit him again, which, which puts her at a terrible disadvantage.

Uh, but, you know, I guess whatever are they’re trying to say, she’s more interested in a kind of showdown revenge than, uh, actually getting out of there alive, which isty 

Craig: well, which is not atypical of horror Final girls. There often is that big showdown true between the final girl and it’s a big. You know, action packed piece.

But this defies that. He gets her down, um, with the shot to the leg, and then we see a shot of the cat lady, and she’s like talking to the doll, telling it’s gonna be okay or whatever. Then he shoots her in the abdomen and then in the face, but she’s still alive. Her sister shows up and calls her phone and art.

Art. Ha hears it and he’s got the phone. So this evil clown texts her , Tara, Sick, come around back. Mm-hmm. . I thought that was so funny. . Yeah, it’s hilarious. But then art. Art takes a selfie with Don’s body, which. Kind of clever and funny. Yeah. And then shoots Tara in the head a bunch more times. Yes. I, I just, you know, I didn’t see that coming, even if she wasn’t gonna be the final girl, even if Victoria the sister was going to be the hero, I expected that Victoria would show up and rescue her baby sister.

That’s usually how these things work. Yeah. 

Todd: Nope, doesn’t happen. She gets shot in the face multiple times. So the weird cat lady standing there, she sees it and the clown smiles at her in waves and then she runs off and she ends up upstairs where the pest control guy is still spraying. And, and the reason he can’t hear anything that’s going on is cuz he’s got these earbuds in that are really loud and she’s coming to him.

There’s a dead woman in your basement. And, and he, he’s trying to kill us and he’s killed people already and blah, blah, blah. He just doesn’t 

Craig: believe her. Well, she’s. I mean, she seems 

Todd: crazy. Yeah. So she, he’s no help and she runs off well, 

Craig: but not before. Like he, he tries to call somebody a friend or something.

He goes to the stairwell Yeah. To make a call, and he gets hit in the back of the head with a hammer Art. Hits him. Mm-hmm. . And so he’s presumably dead. Yep. And Art gets his phone. It leads to this weird moment. So the cat lady goes back, Victoria’s like circling the building trying to get in. She eventually gets in, but in the meantime, there’s this weird scene where the cat lady goes back to her little den and.

The baby doll is missing. And so she goes looking around for it and she eventually finds art in this looks like subterranean hallway, uh, lit with some, some like flashy fluorescent light. And he’s just sitting crosslegged on the floor, cradling the baby and like rocking the baby. And she approaches and there’s this really strange.

Scene. I don’t know if I get, and I don’t know if I’m supposed to get it, because she approaches him and she’s kind of pleading with him and she says something like, Is there kindness in you? Somewhere in your heart? Have you ever felt at Mother’s Touch? Can you show no mercy? She’s all I have in this world, and she’s getting closer and closer and closer to him.

She like caresses his face and it seems like he’s into it. Yeah. 

Todd: Well, he’s like sucking his thumb. He puts his thumb in his mouth. He’s sucking his thumb. He, he leans his head into her as though she’s his mom and he’s cra she’s cradling him right there and it cuts away from it. She’s like, Sh, sh, You’re okay.

You’re okay. Does that ever 

Craig: resolve? Well, yeah, kind of. Because the next thing, the next thing that happens is, uh, Victoria is looking around and she hear. Tara’s voice calling to her, which I don’t understand. 

Todd: Well, she hears the ring right? Doesn’t she hear a ring of 

Craig: the phone? Maybe. But she stumbles upon the gruesome scene of Don’s body split in half, and the cat lady is on the ground with her shirt off and like it looks like something or somebody has like clawed her chest open or something.

You don’t get to see her for very long. It’s not, but she’s still alive. And then Victoria notices her sister Tara on the floor, and Tara is somehow still alive. And I’m like, What? I saw her get shot in the head like 10 times. This doesn’t make any sense. Yeah, but it turns out it’s because it’s not her, It’s art.

Wearing her skin like a. What , 

Todd: I mean, she has breasts and everything. How did he have time to do this? I was confused at this skin. Are you sure it was. It was definitely her skin. I mean, I was so weirded out by this part, . I didn’t know what to think because art, it’s art. He gets up, he’s got his clown ahead, but he has a woman’s body and I didn’t think it was obvious that he was wearing her skin because he has breast.

He has breasts that move and shake and stuff. And he gets up and he starts kind of doing this weird kind of dance and then she runs away and he’s sort of running after her. We get a lot of full body shots of him and it looks like he’s a woman. . 

Craig: I thought he was wearing her skin, like he played her.

That’s what it looked like to me, but I don’t know it. And it like, It’s sh never shot in closeup. It’s usually his full body in the frame, so I can’t tell. I mean, I guess it could be him or parts of it could be him, like maybe he just cut her breast off. I, I don’t know, but it’s 

Todd: really, I just didn’t see the cuts Yeah.

For that. Okay. It’s 

Craig: really unsettling and the way he dances and is clearly taunting Victoria. Uh, it’s really wicked and it’s, it’s a little bit reminiscent of silence of the Lambs. 

Todd: Yes, Yes. 

Craig: Really creepy. Like he’s intentionally putting on a feminine affect in his movement. And again, this guy studied mime, so he knows how to use his body, very unsettling.

And she hides like in a locker or something she can kind of see out through a key hole. Um, and it seems like. Knows that she’s there and eventually he kind of disappears out of her line of sight, but then pops up right in front and is trying to get the door open but can’t get it open. Um, and he eventually goes away for some reason.

I don’t even remember why. 

Todd: Well, it’s because the, the pest control guy has a co, has a companion coworker and his coworker’s been kind of calling him, asking where he is and he actually shows up at the back. So, um, he manages to get into the place from the back, and I think Art hears that and he walks off to find him.

That’s the guy’s walking around now. And I mean, at this point, the movie, I’m like, All right, well we got another victim here, you know, And 

Craig: that’s exactly what it is. Yeah. 

Todd: Mm-hmm. , like, he just follows a trail of blood and stuff on the floor. He stumbles across the weird. and the clown raises right up behind him pretty suddenly and stabs him straight down in the head.

Um, which is reminiscent of another movie we saw recently that I thought was pretty disturbing. Was it pieces? I don’t remember which one it was. Anyway, and then, um, he takes a saw and saws off his head, and this is all shown in excruciating. Full on detail. Yeah, it looks okay. I mean, for practical effects, there’s a little bit of fakeness to it, but otherwise it looks fake.

It’s just super gross. Yeah, he’s and very exploitative and so he saw us off his head and uh, the guy’s body falls. He sets the head down and then kicks it across the room like a football. 

Craig: The next thing that I have in my notes is Victoria passes Tara’s discarded skin hair. I think he was wearing her. Mm.

Um, cuz she sees a pile of it on the floor. Wow. And then she hides around some corner and art comes out riding a tricycle like Billy the Puppet. Mm-hmm. from the saw movies, which was weird and had to have been homage because those movies had been out. For a long 

Todd: time at this point. Yeah. But also it’s the kind of trope of the clown riding a tiny bicycle as well.

That’s true. 

Craig: Uh, gosh. She, uh, she keeps running away. Eventually he pops up behind her, puts plastic over her face. Um, she struggles for a while, but eventually rips it open at the mouth and she grabs a huge nail and stabs him in the foot. 

Todd: And the pest control guys coming to life suddenly, um, the one who was hit with a hammer.

Craig: Yeah, and he calls the cops and it seems like they’re gonna get out, but then art shows up again and knocks the. Janitor or the pest control guy downs, like curb stomps his head and smashes his head to smithereens. Yeah. Then, gosh, I don’t even, there’s one part, so, okay. She finds stomps his head then what?

Todd: Yeah, she, she has found her sister who’s, um, been propped up on a chair, I think clothed again, so I don’t know. But anyway, and she’s got the word clown on a sign in front, you know, on her lap. And she’s strung up with lights. And then the, uh, art comes up from behind her and he, one of his weapons, which I think he also had in the first movie was a chain, and I thought this was unique.

It’s like a long chain that he has tied different sharp implements to along the length of it so that when he whips it around like a whip and whips her with it, she gets cut up and torn up a ton. But you know, they have a struggle. And, uh, she manages to get loose and, uh, he’s kind of strangling her and, and then she gets him in the eye, which then incapacitates him for a little bit and she manages to make it outside.

She gets outside, which is what they’ve been trying to do this whole time. Art has locked the entire building with like chains and deadbolts from the inside. Like every door they try, they can’t get outta the building. She gets outside, looks around, and immediately turns around and tries to go back inside the building through another.

Craig: I honestly didn’t understand what was happening. I don’t know if I blinked and missed something or what, but I reo it. 

Todd: I, I look, I was looking to see what motivated her now that she was outside to go right back in the building and there was nothing, nothing I could see. 

Craig: Well, the next thing that I remember there, like these big doors that say Keep out.

And she goes in and he grabs her through the door, but he can’t squeeze through, so he just taunts her with the bicycle horn. And then the next thing you. He hits her with a truck. Like what? Yeah, . Like when did he get I, I, I guess it was the, the, uh, exterminator truck. 

Todd: Oh, maybe, maybe it was the ex, maybe he left the keys in it or something.

I don’t know. But the, the clown drives 

Craig: this truck right through the door that she’s behind and, and runs her down, and then the cops show up. And was he kneeling over her eating her face? Is that what was going. 

Todd: Yeah, that’s what they mentioned later. He’s kneeling over her, eating her face. The cops show up and they’re like, Put, you know, stand up.

Stand up, put the gun down. He’s got the art, has his gun, Put the gun down. Put the gun down. Art gets this kind of like look on his face, like, oh God. He stands up and he turns around and by now American cops would’ve shot this guy five or six times. . He swings around with a gun in his hand. , but it, it, they, they, they’re still holding their guns on him and he takes his gun, he puts it in his mouth and he shoots himself in the head.

Mm-hmm. unmistakably up through the brain, falls down, you see the blood running out of his head. His head’s almost like flattened a little bit by the bits blown out the back. I mean, this was surprising. Obviously did not expect the killer at the end of the movie to just shoot himself. No, I don’t know. I God, well, I didn’t know what to make of that at all.

Of course. I’m still trying to figure out why this stupid woman was running back into the building. She was struggling so hard to get out of. Well, the 

Craig: cops, the cops are surprised to find that Victoria is still alive. Oh yeah. . She, you, you can hear her gasping. Um, yeah, but they don’t show her, I don’t think.

And then it cuts to a morgue and it’s a goofy scene with the mortician like eating a sandwich while he’s working on dead people. And the cops bring in a couple of body bags and. One of them is the guy who got his head completely smashed. Um, but the other one is art the killer. And so after the cops leave, the doctor opens art’s body bag and Art is, has his eyes open, staring right at him with a huge smile on his face.

And then the lights start blinking. The phone starts ringing, you know, something. Weird, magical. It’s clearly happening. Mm-hmm. . And then all of that stops and art grabs the doctor’s throat sits up, and then it cuts to black fade back in on a hospital hallway with a woman in a wheelchair. People standing around her and it says one year later, turns out it’s Victoria’s parents taking her home.

They swing her, uh, wheelchair around and we see that she is. The disfigured woman from the beginning of the movie. Mm-hmm. . So all of that, that opening scene, the rest of the movie actually happened before that. Um, yeah. And then there’s just a flash of art’s face, uh, really quick. And then the credits role.

Todd: Yeah. I think the clear implication here is that he’s supernatural. 

Craig: Which was suggested in the original short too. Mm-hmm. . Um, there was no way he could do all of the things that he did in that short. So yeah, there’s something supernatural going on. Um, and of course we know that he’s coming back, uh, for a sequel, which honestly I’m really kind of excited to see just because I think that this director, uh, has a vision.

And it’s really picking up support. Um, it was a little indie movie, um, and I think that people eventually found it over time on streaming services and by word of mouth. And at this point I think it’s pretty well known. At the least by real horror fans. Yeah, your, your casual horror fan who only sees, you know, blockbuster type horror films, may not be aware of this.

But, uh, I do see, you know, images of art, the clown popping up in pop culture, um, and in merchandise. It’s a lot these days there’s been a lot of hype about this sequel coming out. Um, so I think that if he hasn’t already, he’s well on his way to cementing himself in the pantheon of. Classic horror villains.

Um, and I, I would argue deservedly so. Yeah. Um, I think he is frightening and unique. I think the, uh, performance, uh, the portrayal of the character is really strong. This guy who did the movie is not the guy who originated the character in the short, but he has done this movie and, uh, he’s reprising his role for the second one.

So I’m actually looking forward to it in, in terms of, Would I recommend it to others to, uh, major horror fans? Absolutely. I think you should definitely see it. Um, it is a, a Halloween movie. It’s got Halloween elements with costumes and decorations and, and stuff. So if, if you’re into the, kinda like more hardcore stuff.

The, the, the really scary, the really gory, You’re gonna love this. Yeah. If you’re not. If, if you’re gonna, gore is not your thing, if uh, really, really graphic violence is not your thing, then you are not going to like it at all. And I would caution you, um, to stay away from it. At the 

Todd: end of the day. It’s really mostly about that.

I’m interested in seeing the sequel just to see where they go with it from here. And if they go with it, you know what I mean? I mean, do they have a concept or revision of something beyond just this cloud running around killing people all day long? I know. Are we gonna get some backstory? Are we gonna get some more insight into the character?

Is there gonna be kind some twist or some new ability has, or are they gonna up the stakes beyond just a small, you know, a coup of just a handful of small, insignificant people in a little building? I want something a little clever. I want at least a thread of a story I can get. Something I can laugh at.

And this movie’s, I don’t know, there’s a little bit of humor in it. There’s actually, there’s, there’s, there’s a fair amount of extremely dark humor in it. Yeah. Uh, really dark. Yeah. 

Craig: So, but it’s also, it’s really nihilistic too. 

Todd: Yeah. And, and the nihilism in this day and age. For me anyway. I get enough of that just in everyday life and the news.

Um, Right. You know, I’m actually really interested in that sequel because there’s something compelling about this clown. You know, maybe there doesn’t need to be any backstory. Maybe that’s really not the point. I don’t care about that. What I really just wanna see is a story, just some attempt at more of a story, just some more interesting characters that I care about just to.

A little bit more of that emotional punch. You know, even the Friday the 13th movies, as much as I dog on them, they are guilty pleasure of buying and you know, they at least make some attempt at a, at some kind of story and making some interesting characters. And I think if, honestly, I think if this were rounded out with that, I think it’s the lack of that that really, um, kind of makes me.

About this particular movie, and maybe that’s something that the sequel will fix. But yeah, I mean, everything you said, I, I pretty much agree with, If you’re a Gore hound, you’re gonna love it. It’s, it’s a movie for you made with love. It’s a love letter to you basically. Um, and I agree with you. I think this villain is, is gonna be here with us to stay, especially if this second movie does.

Does well. Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend and also please consider supporting us on Patreon. If you support us on Patreon, you’ll get access to a couple minisodes that we do Every month. You get access to the entire unedited version of our phone calls that we do.

We, we end up revealing a lot of personal information on those. We don’t cut away at the end of our recordings. So, uh, you can hear a little bit about what’s going on in our lives and what we chat about, if that’s interesting to you. Uh, as well as, uh, you get to influence the movies that we do next. We always run our requests by our patrons.

We have one more Halloween episode to do, uh, and I think we should, uh, brighten it up a little bit after this Horribly depressing moving . Let’s, let’s go out with a, with a happy goofy bag next week. What do you think? All right. Sounds good. All right. Until then, I’m. And I’m Craig with a Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

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