bloody eyes

We take a break from requests to go to the opera….Argento’s Opera, that is. And oh boy, did this movie divide us. One loved it, one hated it. Listen for the good, bad and ugly, and lots of angry birds.

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Opera (1987)

Episode 220, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig

Todd: Today we decided to take a break from requests a little bit and do a film from 1987 by one of my most favorite horror directors. We hadn’t done a Dario Argento movie in a little while. We had done a movie produced by him, but this is a movie he actually directed called opera. So I had never seen this film before.

I’d always been on my list. It sounded very intriguing. I’m a big fan of these movies that take place within the making of a movie or in this case, the making of a play. We just recently did a film. That took place in a movie theater called demons. So this somehow just kind of jumped to the top of my list and I suggested that we do it this week.

And I have to say, I really enjoyed this movie. I mean, I’m probably, it’s probably going to go down as one of my favorite are gentle films, just so gorgeous. So interesting. So intriguing, accessible, not to say it didn’t have issues here and there, but honestly I loved watching this movie and maybe some of it has to do.

With the fact that I just got a brand new, like 55 inch TV set, and I was able to watch it on that because the cinematography in here is really quite gorgeous. Anyway, I’m going to have a lot of nice things to say about this movie. I think. How about you, Craig? What’s your history with this film?

Craig: Um, I know who Darrio Kenzo is he directed Suspiria, right?

Yeah. Um, I think that I had seen this title. I’m not sure I didn’t know anything about it and I didn’t look much into it at all. Uh, before we started, I, I kind of looked at the trivia on IMDV or started to and saw a couple of things. I was like, ah, I think I better wait. And watch it first before I get too much into this.

And I’m really glad that you liked it and have a lot to say about it. Cause I fucking hated it.


Todd: Oh my gosh. I cannot wait for this conversation.

You hated it. Why did you hate this movie? So much,

Craig: it was boring. It was super boring and the story was stupid. And, um, so like other giallo pictures, it’s basically like a mystery, like who done it and. I didn’t care. And then when you find out who did it, like, unless I missed something, which I feel like I did.

Cause I feel like there were all kinds of things going on that I just had no idea what was happening. I felt like there was absolutely no way that you could have pieced together. Who did it on your own? Like, it just kind of came out of nowhere and they solved the mystery with birds. And I am not down with it.

It was so stupid.

Todd: Now, wait a second. Now I don’t remember exactly how you felt about phenomena, but in that movie they solve the mystery with flies. I I’m surprised you didn’t think that bird’s, wasn’t a step or two up from,

Craig: I don’t know.

Todd: I kind of also wonder. Alright, you’ve got to say, what mood were you in when you watched this? What were you doing? Where were you sitting? Did you watch us on your computer? Yeah, something else. Oh, my

Craig: God. Well, I got engaged in other things cause I got so bored. Like

I was, I was in my living room as I usually am watching it on my like 12 inch computer screen. And my partner is working from home. Because of the pandemic and he walked through and I was on my phone

Todd: with the movie on

Craig: and he said, are you still watching your movie? And I said, kind of,

Oh my God, that’s how Intuit I was now. I will say, okay, fine. From a cinematography perspective. Fine. It was all right. But. And, you know, the signature Argento things that I’m aware of. I’m certainly not a scholar, but, you know, just based on my very limited experience, having seen Suspiria, you know, like all of the bright colors and the closeups on like eyes and things, like, I understand that these are trademarks and they were there.

So. Okay.

There were, there were a couple of interesting visuals. I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know where you want to start because I, one of the things that drove me the most crazy was that. The main girl, Betty, which is even right there, like the lamest name for a PR for a heroin ever. Betty, I hated her. And I thought that she was one of the most stupid people I’ve ever witnessed on film.

Really. And yes, like. And it wasn’t just her. It was everybody. So like, okay, so she’s this opera singer and they’re putting on this big, like experimental performance of Macbeth and the lead actress is a diva who storms out of the dress rehearsal because there are. Ravens in the play and they’re distracting her or something.

So she storms out and she gets hit by a car. So Betty is this ingenue, I guess who gets she’s the understudy. So she gets called in to do it and she comes in and she does it. And that’s a whole thing. Like that scene was kind of funny with like the bird, somebody. So she’s performing. As lady Macbeth and she’s singing, somebody throws a Raven at her head, like,

Todd: what is this?

Craig: But even, even before somebody literally throws a Raven at her head, we had all these POV shots. Of, I don’t know, somebody creeping around the theater and then I like whoever this person is. I just kept calling them gloves. Cause that’s all you ever seen. So like, like or ever see gloves is creeping around and creeps into like this private box and gets caught by a usher or stage hand or something.

There’s a little bit of a scuffle in which some stage lights fall. From the balcony during the performance with shops, the performance for a second, the bad guy kills the stage hand, and they carry on with the show. And then later, like right after Betty’s boyfriend comes in and is talking to her and it’s like,

Todd: Oh, maybe because of the accident with the lights, one of the stagehands died.

Yeah. It’s pretty weird.

Craig: Throughout the whole course of the movie, this girl keeps watching, literally watching people get murdered and then just walks away. Like nothing. She never calls the police. She never like,

Todd: yeah.

Craig: It’s so stupid.

Todd: Yeah. Well, let’s dial it back just a little bit fine because, because I want to talk about this.

Look, we’ve talked about this before. I mean, I dunno, we’ve seen at least. Four, maybe five of his movies. Now, did we do Suspiria yet? I’m not telling him blood red. We did like phenomena. I thought it was all right, at least one or two others, but you know, he has his style and it’s this giallo style gloves, obviously his own hands.

He loves to play the glove to killers, hands in his movies for reasons that are probably just to keep a creepy image about him, of course, plots that. Don’t always make a lot of sense because. Making sense as a plot is probably not the first thing he’s super interested in as a filmmaker, he’s really interested with imagery and emotion and shock.

And I really kind of fell in love with this movie from the very first of the scenes, because I was getting that before I ever got any of the plot I was getting. This beautiful sweeping view of this gorgeous opera house. There’s this Raven cawing away, which was super annoying, but I think it was that way on purpose.

You know, there’s the sound of the singer singing that’s juxtaposed. We don’t get to see the singer singing in the beginning. All we get to see is this closeup on this Raven, which every now and then pops into the Raven’s eye and becomes a closeup on the Ravens. I, uh, which you know, eyes, like you said, it’s kind of one of our gentle things.

Images of eyes and of seeing and of seeing things properly. It’s kind of part of the giallo genre in general, but he uses, I think, particularly focus on focuses on eyes and seeing in this movie. And so even when there’s a closeup on the Ravens, I. Sometimes you’ll see something of the scene reflected in the Raven’s eyes.

So it’s just as generally annoying calling and calling and calling of this Raven, while this actress is singing and we never see the actress. And then when she gets pissed off, because the Ravens are flying around, continue to batter her head while she’s trying to sing. During this rehearsal, she storms off the stage, like you said, but we don’t see that from a third person view, you know, it’s a POV shot from her, but almost like the cameras attached to the back of her head as she’s storming off.

Right. So all the people on the stage, we basically, along with her storm off the stage and we get to see all these people looking at us. And pleading with us and talking to us. And there’s a crowd in the theater. There’s a crowd of people, uh, outside the theater. Who’s mobbing her for autographs all the way up until the point she gets into the car.

I mean, talk about a long, coordinated, serious tracking shot. That was really impressive. And it’s the beginning of a number of. Tricks that are gentle plays with point of view in this movie, because we have this point of view from her where they’re looking straight at us. And then later, like you said, we have this point of view that we later learned is obviously the killer as he’s going through the opera house during the performance and ends up in that box.

And then we even see that murder from his point of view, which is always a little unsettling, I think. Cause it’s like we’re murdering that person. He wouldn’t pails that guy on a coat hook. Several times like bash bash, bash, bash, bash. It’s pretty brutal as are all of the killings in this movie, really shockingly brutal.

But then later on, when we get into this girl’s apartment, She’s laying down, she’s having this dream. She, she has these trouble dreams. And in this dream, it’s always a woman getting murdered. Who’s lying on a bed and some broken down old kind of house. I think of it, probably not representative of reality, but more or less representative, kind of a dream reality.

Like your dreams always kind of mix up locations and people and places and things. But while this girl was getting murdered, again, it’s a POV through the killer’s eyes or is it her eyes? We see a woman who’s tied up, who’s kind of in the shadow, but clearly watching this murder take place and she wakes up with a start and she gets a phone call.

It’s one of those phone calls where a person says,

Craig: Oh, something stupid. Well, I mean, they don’t even say anything of consequence, but it’s like, it’s creepy because it’s your big debut. You got the Bart, like, yes. Tonight you make your dead be and lady Macbeth. Are you happy? Who’s speaking.

Todd: She gets that. So immediately, not only is she a little distressed that suddenly she’s been thrust into this lead character’s role.

But she’s having these trouble dreams. She gets a mysterious phone call and we don’t know what that, where that phone call came from. But of course we know we’re watching a horror movie and we saw, and we just saw somebody get killed. And then as the people wander into the room, we kind of get introduced to all the characters before that happens.

The camera pans across her room and pans up to the great, like the air vent in her room. And we see there is movement in her air vent. Like somebody is up in there watching her. Then she hears movement in her apartment and we get another one of these POV shots down the hall towards her. And your immediate reaction is, Oh my God, like, this is the killer.

No, it is her manager Mira. And so what our gender has done in all of this. Is, he has shown us a very unreliable camera. Like we don’t really know when we see these POV shots, what they’re going to be. We don’t know if they’re going to be just a third person thing, showing us a stylistically, something we don’t know if it’s going to be a POV from a killer.

We don’t know if it’s going to be a POV from another character. So every time you get these and there are a lot of them. The swooping POV shots in the movie. It’s always a little for me. Any was a little nerve wracking. Like, I didn’t know if this is the person creeping around the corner, or if this is the camera showing us the scene, or if it’s a person in consequent, you know, who’s not the killer, you know, walking around and creeping around.

I found that very unreliable and unsettling, but again, I was watching it on a screen. It’s almost like five feet wide. So, you know, maybe the cinematography had a. Slightly different effect on me than it did if you’re watching it on a computer in your, in your lap. Right. But I thought it was beautiful and I loved that.

And though, so then the question remains, right? As all these people come in, it’s her, there’s a director. Uh, his name is Marco. Uh, we learned that he is a former horror movie director and this is his first time directing a stage. And the character of Marco was written kind of based on our gentle himself.

And he’s a little mysterious. I think a little emotionless, a little too flat for what’s going on at times. And you wonder what’s going on in his head. There’s mirror, the agent, of course, there’s Betty. There’s a woman named Julia. Who’s constantly freaking out. Who’s their costume manager. Who’s pretty, highly emotional.

And over the top. And then of course, like you said, the stage manager who we later find out is her boyfriend, right? What was his name?

Craig: His name was Stefano. He was the only actor in the whole thing. That I recognized his name is William McNamara and this was his first movie, but then he did quite a few movies in the nineties.

He was in dream, a little dream, which is one of the two quarries movies that I really liked when I was growing up. And I was super excited to see him in this because I had a huge crush on him. When I was a teenager and then he got killed off first and I was really mad.

Todd: It was that why you hated this movie so much? Just because, well,

Craig: I guess I don’t know. It was also okay. So usually, you know, I’m used to watching these movies for this now, so I’m aware that, um, they filmed them and, and they. You would have to refresh my memory on the process without sound or whatever. And then somebody else, other people go back in and dub the voices

Todd: with the same people

Craig: or the same people.

But in, in the case of William McNamara, it was not his voice because I know his voice and it was nothing like the voice that. They dubbed over him, which was a little bit just odd. I mean, I got over it, but I knew that voice,

Todd: well, Marco was played by Ian Charleson and this was one of his last film roles might actually have been his last because he was in a minor motorcycle accident.

I think while this was going on and in the hospital, they were given some tea, they were doing some tests. And it turned out that he was HIV positive, which was something that he had suspected. And so apparently he fell ill only a year or two after this movie came out and he ended up dying, but he was really famous for chariots of fire just before this movie, he was one of the runners, one of the two main women guys in that movie.

So, yeah, he’s a bit of a, of a name at the time that this film came out. But I felt like this movie just had a lot of style and I wasn’t so impatient with it. Maybe just because I was in the mood for this kind of movie. When I sat down and watched it, I was totally taken in by the cinematography, all the swooping camera.

The camera is quite impressive during this movie. I mean, there are times where it’s point of view, shots of Ravens circling around, you know, in the movie theater and for me anyway, Anytime we knew something was about to be revealed and something was about to happen. And these Ravens play a huge part. A couple of times I felt like our gentle knew just how to extend it enough that it was annoyingly long.

Just show me what they’re seeing. Like, what are they seeing? Like where are they going to go? Who are they going to point out? What’s going to happen? It was just annoyingly long to really build up in me a real sense of suspense. And then, you know, after. Again, after all these people leave her back alone in her room, the camera again.

back up and we see there is still movement inside of that. Great. And then takes us to another point of view shot from inside. The great, so you get this feeling, this worry that this killer is like in her air, duct in her room, the monitoring her. So you never quite know. What’s going on. I think, and a lot of it has to do with the skillful use of this POV, which is also I think, quite beautiful to watch.

Craig: Okay. I don’t know. I, I mean, fine. Yeah. I, I certainly noticed that and I certainly wanted to who’s in the great, obviously it’s somebody, you know, you anticipate that it’s going to be the killer, but just everything is. Just kind of silly. Um, I don’t know. I, the, the parts, I guess, I mean, if, if there were parts of it that I liked were the murder scenes, um, I thought those were pretty well executed.

You know, the, the first one after her big debut, which is a huge success, even though the director gets panned in the reviews, you know, Everybody just thinks she’s amazing. This is her huge break, whatever she goes, we don’t see it, but there’s like a after show party that they go to. But then she goes home with Stefano, her boyfriend, and she like, it was just so scattered to me that I didn’t so many things happen that I just didn’t even understand.

And I didn’t understand what the point was like. We cut to them naked in bed in this opulent. Room. And she makes note of how fancy it is. And he’s like, Oh, well, my uncle’s super rich. And he lets me stay here sometimes. And I thought, Ooh, you know, that sounds like a clue. It’s not, I think that they just had to justify why they were in this ridiculously palatial room, but they’re laying there naked and she’s like,

Todd: I’m a disaster in bed. I don’t know why. Sorry. According to the legend of the same is incredibly horny. Really? They say they make love before they go out on stage and that way sort of relaxes their voice, you know, sweetens it up a little.

Craig: Oh yes. The old legend of the horny opera singer. I remember that one

Todd: soprano.

The horny soprano. I don’t know. I’ve never heard this legend before either, but, um, I mean they repeated a couple times in the movie where she, he says, or she claims or whatever that, uh, it’s, it’s a thing that Sopranos think that if they have sex right before they go out to perform that they’ll it’ll improve their voice or something.

I never heard that before, but. It was interesting

Craig: because it’s not a real thing. Um, if it is, I’ve never heard it either. And I’ve. Been singing in choirs and in musical performances my entire life.

Todd: You mean this didn’t come up in church choir one day?

Craig: No, it also didn’t come up. When I was in college, singing in multiple acquires with a bunch of other horses.


I, I don’t know, but anyway. Okay. So fine. So they don’t have sex cause apparently she’s frigid and he gets up to

Todd: she’s nervous. She’s nervous, Craig. She’s not just frigid. She just had this nerve wracking. She says, she’s not very good right now she’s had this nerve wracking experience and she has these dreams, these crazy ass dreams that are haunting her.

So everything’s kind of on edge right now for her,

Craig: whatever he was hot, she should have gotten over it.

Todd: I’m just jealous,

Craig: but he, okay. So he gets up and goes to make some tea and then the gloves grab her and. Like tie her up now. Okay. So I feel like his primary visual in this movie, like the one that he wanted us most to enjoy was this killer.

Always. He ties her up and then he takes needles. Lined up on a piece of tape and taped them on her lower eyelids so that she has to keep her eyes open. He says, if you try to close your eyes, you’ll just draw them. You have to watch everything. Now I will concede that this makes for a really unsettling, uncomfortable.

Visual of her, you know, with her eyeballs directly behind this like fence of needles. The problem that I had with it is that. You can’t not blink. So she’s going to have to close her eyes at some point, which she does, I guess, because her eyelid kind of gets bloodied in the blood, like runs down the needles, which looks cool or whatever.

And so the whole premise is, you know, he ties her up so that she has to watch him commit these murders. So. When Stefano comes back in, but again, it’s infuriating because Stefano comes back in, sees her tied up with these needles on her eyes. It’s like, what are you doing? Like, and he just stands there and looks at her for a minute.


Todd: what’s

Craig: going on? And then he starts walking towards her in the most casual way bef before, out of nowhere. And yet right in front of him, he gets stabbed in the neck with like this crazy knife that kind of looks like a spade. And then he gets stabbed to death, very brutally and it’s very bloody and it looks great.

Todd: Oh my gosh.

Craig: But the buildup to it. It was just stupid.

It just looked really good. It’s very bloody. It’s very brutal. Uh, you know,

Todd: the knife goes up through the neck, into his mouth. You see the point of the knife in his mouth. I’d never seen an image like that before.

Craig: That was, I didn’t, I didn’t see that, that, that lug, no, that was the luxury of your big. TV, but I did see, you know, and you don’t see this very often, which I think you should see more often at this guy.

The killer just keeps stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, and Stefano was putting his hands up in front of his face to try to shield himself. And he just keeps stabbing into and through his hands, which I thought was brutal and realistic. And the blood was very red and it was everywhere and it looked really good.

So. I liked that

Todd: part. Yeah. But then when it’s done, like you say, and I completely agree with you, the killer cuts her rope loose enough that she can get out and then he disappears. So she takes all everything off and, and goes running outside into the street and it’s raining outside and she goes to a phone and she does call the police.

So she says she calls the police and says she needs to report a murder that happened there, but she doesn’t give her name or anything. She hangs up.

Craig: Why

Todd: it’s a good question. Why?

Craig: Right. I just don’t understand, like, why didn’t she call the police from the house? Why, when they ask her, who is this? She’s she won’t tell them who it is.

It makes no sense. And then she goes, she’s wandering around in the rain and I don’t know, what is this supposed to be? Paris. I don’t know where it’s supposed to be. But a big city and her director just happens upon her and picks her up. And so, okay. I was like, well, maybe he’s the killer. I don’t know.

Maybe he’s following her. And that’s how he can find her fine. I can deal with that, but picks her up, takes her. Back where she tells him the story that he is completely unmoved by. Oh, Oh wow. Somebody they murdered Stefano. Whoa. Let’s read our reviews. And then like they have this cash, like they BR he brings up like, did you guys.

I think he asks if they had sex or something and she’s like, no, we didn’t because I’m frigid. And he brings somehow the whole Sopranos being super horny thing comes up again and they just casually talk about it. And he says, because he’s a film director. He’s like, Oh yeah, I always jerk off before I shoot a scene.

And then they just carry on with their conversation. Like.

Todd: Good to

Craig: know. Yeah.

Todd: Wow. See, none of this bothered me. I, I, you know, you said this to me before something traumatic, like this happens to you. How are you so sure. You’re going to act and feel logically afterwards. First of all, like I said, I don’t think Argento is terribly concerned about everything being a hundred percent realistic, but also if you just.

Finished boning, your significant other, and you walked into the other room to get something and you walked back in and they’re standing up and they’re a bit of a distance away, but they’re kind of tied up. You might think, what is this? I don’t think your first notion is going to be, Oh my God. Like while I was away for five minutes, somebody broke into the house, tied them up.

And uh, and now I’m in trouble, you know? Want to approach and see what kind of game they’re playing with you first. I think before you’d immediately freak out. That’s my sense. Okay. And same girl, you know,

Craig: I, you know, I that’s, that’s not particularly sexy that she’s standing there with needles in her eyes.


Todd: I’d say he’s far enough away.

Craig: No,

Todd: he’s too far away to really get a good glimpse of exactly what’s under her eyes or what that is. I thought that was more or less fine. And then she runs out of the house to call the cops is fine, you know, I mean, First instinct is to leave the place, maybe the killers there.

And then while you’re outside running, you’re like, Oh my God, I need to call the cops. You find a phone booth and you do it. And then you don’t report your name because you’re kind of confused. And maybe you’re a little concerned that you’ll get in trouble for this. And so you just kind of pause and maybe just hang up the phone because you can, and then she gets in the car with this guy and it’s so surreal, right?

Like she’s just been through this surreal, shocking experience. And she doesn’t, she says, I don’t want to tell you yet. Anything, and they have the sex talk before she actually tells him. That, um, you know, about the murder, the murder comes quite a ways away from this. So I saw this as a kind of, uh, a cooling down period.

I gave it a little bit more of a pass and I also thought maybe it was an interesting peek into her character. Like we already know she’s having these dreams and the whole time she’s having these dreams. One, one key thing that she says, uh, at some point it might’ve been before this might’ve been after is, I don’t know if these are just dreams or if they are reflective of something that happened to me when I was young.

Craig: Right. And, and she also says that all of what I saw referring to the murder, that she just witnessed all of what I saw. Happened in the dreams that I’ve had. So, right. So there’s obviously some connection and that does pay off in the end. So

Todd: I think

Craig: I just can’t, I can’t get over the casualness of it. Like she never, again really cares that presumably her boyfriend, unless they just hooked up this for the very first time this night, which is possible, but presumably her boyfriend, she doesn’t really care.

And then she tells the director and he doesn’t care. Like,

Todd: alright, I interpreted this two different ways to totally different from you when she is acting this way. I thought that’s really interesting that she’s acting this way either. She’s super emotionally distraught, or this has tapped into something of her.

Some numbness of her. If she was involved in these past experiences where people got murdered, was she somehow complicit in them? Did it change her as a person? Did it make her numb to the experience of violence? And I thought that this was maybe reflective could have been, could be reflective of that. So, whereas you thought, Oh, it’s dumb movie making.

I kind of looked at it as, wow. This is. A really interesting take on this girl, like what’s going on in her head and where is she from? And could she, if, if she has this past, like what does that have to do with what’s going on now? And is she somehow complicit in what’s happening now? I

Craig: don’t. Normally, I would say maybe I’m dense, but anytime I say that, you’re always like, no, you’re not, so, okay.

So fine. I’ll say I’m not dense, but

Todd: you’re so dead,

Craig: but those dreams or flashbacks or whatever they were, they were so lacking in context. I didn’t know what was happening at first. I didn’t even realize that it was dream. She was happy. I didn’t know. I didn’t know if it was dreams or if it was something else that was happening in a different location. I didn’t know, like, because it kept repeating and because of it more and more keeps getting added to it to the point that eventually we see a young girl, which it’s not too difficult to figure out that it’s her.

A young girl is present and witnesses these things fine. Then I started to figure out it was a dream, but then there was also all other kinds of crazy shit that would just pop up out of nowhere that I still don’t have any idea what it was all about. Like, like a pulsating brain, like that popped up. A bunch of times, and I still don’t have any idea what that was all about and just other weird imagery, like the pulsating brain and then like blood, like dissolving in water or something.

I don’t even know what it was and fine. Like I’m all for interesting imagery, but. I didn’t understand the context. It just felt, it felt like when you would go, this never actually happens to me, but I’ve seen it in movies. Like when you would go to a movie and some smart Alec projectionists would have spliced in just one frame of porn, into, you know, snow white or whatever, where it just pops up out of nowhere.

Without any context, really? And then it’s over. And you’re like, why, what, why the pulsating brain?

Todd: But the pulsating brain always happened right after the dreams or while she’s walking around and she holds her head. And then you see a pulsating brain and then she complains about how she’s feeling woozy or whatever, and the whole screen would pulse.

And we’d still hear that, that beating and that pulse. I mean, I didn’t think it was without context. I thought it was quite clearly within the context of her having these visions and or her having these headaches that were throwing her off kilter, whenever something was about to happen to her. And it seemed to be.

Pressure. I mean, it seemed to be almost predictive of something was going to happen to her, which I thought was also interesting. Like she seemed to almost have this. This notion that something was wrong, where she was and something bad was about to happen because this thing happened right before each of the murders, at least the first two or three, because the second murder is with Julia and she’s the costume designer.

And everyone’s bitching about her costumes. And she’s upset about the costumes. Apparently she and the director have a hate, hate relationship with each other.

Craig: We’re skipping important things.

Todd: No, no. Like the Ravens.

Craig: Yes. That happened before. That’s important.

Todd: Yeah. I’ve heard about to talk

Craig: about the Ravens.

Todd: Okay. She has a hate relationship with the director. The director hates the costumes and during the night we get a killer POV that comes onto the stage it’s nighttime and all these Ravens are in big cages. And, uh, this killer goes to unlock the costume, the glass costume. Case pulls out her costume and then get some scissors and proceeds to cut it to shreds at the same time the Ravens are watching.

And dude, I’m sorry, but I thought the scene was amazing. I thought the scene was so good that shows it from a number of isolating angles where we never w there’s a moment, I think where there’s a top down on the killer, but it’s so far away that we have no identifying details. Um, but we know by now that this person wears a hood over their face, like a black hood.

And the closeups on the Ravens, looking at him and he’s cutting the thing. At the meantime, the Ravens are distressed and they’re trying to get out of the cage, which they accomplish. And so the Ravens get out of the cage and they attack them, you know, Alfred Hitchcock’s bird style, which is, was a great scene.

It was like the shower scene from psycho. Put on a stage in the middle of the night, uh, just the way it was cut the Ravens attack them and they disappear.

Craig: But why, why, why did the Ravens attack him? Is there a reason? Is it just because he’s bad?

Todd: Yeah, I think because they

Craig: like, is it because they like the costume and he’s tearing it up?

I don’t, I don’t get it.

Todd: Well, the Raven handler or whatever says later that Ravens are very vindictive. They see, they remember. Right.

Craig: Yeah. And that’s true. This fun fact. I know this Ravens are very smart. In fact, Much like parrots and macaws Ravens can talk. They just don’t do it as much as those other birds.

Do you know that

Todd: you learn something new every day? Well, what I took from this was, I mean, there are Ravens flying all around the theater and on the stage during the production of this play, they’re the only ones who saw this murder happen up in that corner and could identify who that person was. So when they see that same figure coming in here and cutting up the costume, they’re trying to get out and attack it.

And so the Ravens chase him off and it’s a wonderfully filmed scene. I mean, the scene is so good, especially considering they’re dealing with live Ravens. This is not the age of CGI and it’s tans and it’s exciting. And then a light comes on from, you know, from above the night custodians or somebody is going to be coming in.

So the is trying to make an exit. And the meantime, the Ravens are after him in the, in the, he gets out through the door and the doors shut. And these Ravens just pile against the door, all of the beef settlement of, of this dude. I don’t know, man. I thought that was a great scene. I thought it made perfect sense to me.


Craig: I’m not going to say, I thought it made perfect sense cause I still don’t really understand, like, it makes sense later why the Ravens become aggressive, but in this part and less, they’re just pissed at being mistreated in general. But like the premise is that they. Because the actress, uh, the diva actress who got hit by the car, she threw a shoe at one of them or something.

So if they’re pissed about that, that’s fine. But the premise later on is that they hold grudges against particular people. And in this scene, they would have no reason to have a grudge against that person.

Todd: I think the Ravens are opera lovers, Craig. They hated Myra because she was always bitching about them.

And maybe she couldn’t sing very well in the very first scene when there’s that singing going on and the Ravens are constantly calling. I felt like they were mocking her.

Craig: Oh my God, are you being facetious?

Todd: I am not being facetious. I felt like they were mocking her. And then they fly after her and like whack at her so much that it drives her off of the set.

Right. The new girl comes on and the Ravens basically leave her alone. But this murder happens while they’re

Craig: flying or somebody throws one of them at her head,

Todd: which lands on her shoulder and sits there. Part of the performance.

Craig: No. She, after, after the big kerfuffle with the falling stage lights, she starts singing again.

Somebody from off stage throws a Raven at her head, it hits her in the head and she reacts to it and then

Todd: lights itself on her shoulder.

Craig: Fine. Cause that was part of the,

Todd: at that moment, a Raven was supposed to fly in and land on her shoulder. I mean, it’s live theater, you know, anything could happen. It didn’t look as graceful as it was supposed to.

But the Raven didn’t attacker K to me, up to this point, now the Ravens, they see that there’s trouble. They recognize this killer. He’s cutting up her costume. They’re well familiar with that costume. So they get out and they attack the heck out of him and drive him out. Alright.

Craig: Okay. So fine. So,

Todd: um,

Craig: so there’s like an investigator around investigating Alan was there on opening night.

Like they kind of throw away why he may have been there, like. The Stefano before he gets killed, this guy shows up at her door and says, I’m a big fan. And then it turns out he’s also a cop and she’s like, why would a copy here? And he’s like, Oh, well, a stagehand got killed. Isn’t that weird? He literally says that, um, And, uh, so this investigator is like investigating or whatever, and then she is still running around being crazy.

And then it comes to that next death scene, which is this the costume designer. And I liked her cause she was feisty. But as she’s trying to fix the costume that has been torn up, she finds a bracelet on it.

Todd: That’s weird.

Craig: And like wants to start, like she’s looking for a magnifying glass, cause there’s an inscription on it, but she can’t see it.

And she finally, after looking for a good. 45 minutes

Todd: finds the magnifying

Craig: glass and looks and says, Oh, there’s a date on it. Which if I can remember correctly is the only thing that we ever hear about that bracelet again, right?

Todd: Yeah, you’re right.

Craig: I mean, I kind of understand how it might be connected ultimately, but it’s never explained and.

Betty is around, you know, while this is going on. And the killer shows up again, while the costume, Julie lady is looking for the magnifying glass, the bad guy ties up, Betty again, puts the needles on her eyes and then attacks, uh, Julie or Julia or whatever her name was. And I liked this cause at least Julia fought back and there was kind of a scuffle.

And at some point she like, he throws. A clothes iron at her and that knocks her to the ground, but then she has the bracelet and she throws it off and he goes to get it. And she hits him over the head with, uh, the iron. And he’s unconscious. So she takes off his mask and is like, Oh my gosh, it’s you? And of course we don’t see anything, but right before he reaches up and, and throttles her and strangles her and then stabbed her many times with.

The scissors, but then again here, like, can you tell me what happened? I don’t understand. Like he like pried open her mouth.

Todd: Oh, you were watching this on way too tiny of a screen Craig or you were drinking or something like you missed a lot of details.

Craig: I am not above day drinking, but I would watch this in the middle of the day.

I was not true.

Todd: All right. Well

Craig: maybe while you

Todd: were checking Facebook, because you already decided that this movie was so boring, you miss, he wanted that bracelet back. So he had the bracelet in his hand this whole time and he’s holding it up. And at one point in their scuffle, The bracelet falls out of his hand and into her mouth and he reaches into her mouth to get it.

He can’t get it cause she’s more or less swallowed it. So he uses the scissors to cut into her throat to pull it out.

Craig: It’s that makes sense.

Todd: It’s so brutal. And it’s so in a way it’s a little comical to that, you know? Haha. The costume designer is snips away at all these things all day long and she’s getting snipped herself.

But it’s really, really brutal, really gross. And then this girl, uh, Betty has to see it all from inside. Where mannequins were previously sitting with costumes from previous shows, she’s inside this glass case, unable to do anything as she goes out really cool imagery. And that scene I thought was full of tension because you knew something was going to happen.

And there’s like gusts of wind coming in. And again, What are gentle does with the camera is so brilliant. Like you don’t know what you’re seeing, if it’s a POV or not, and you’re still not even sure if it’s a POV from the other character, because at one point it becomes a POV of Betty who wanders in. So you’re really off kilter watching these scenes from point to point, but not confused, not confused as to what’s going on, just confused as to what could possibly be happening.

And for me, the, I don’t know that that rarely ratchet up the tension.

Craig: Yeah. I. That’s fair,

Todd: beautiful setting. I mean, these are massive rooms in this beautiful theater that the attention to detail and the collar and everything is really nice.

Craig: But after all that happens, once again, she just leaves as, and, and walks out into the street.

I don’t know. I guess Julia is just laying in there dead. We never hear about her again, you know, everything just continues going on with, and I don’t know if I skipped something that you want to go back to. That’s fine. But the next thing that I remember is she is. Back in her apartment. She’s had these visions and headaches and whatnot.

So she puts in some eyedrops and we can see from her point of view that the eyedrops have blurred her vision. And so she can’t really see and somebody knocks at the door and I guess Mark had set up security for her or something.


Todd: Yeah. The, the, no, she meets with the inspector right after Julia. And she talks with him about it and, and he calls the police and she explains, uh, you know, what’s happened and, and all that.

And, uh, he says, she says somebody has been stalking me and he says, I’m worried for your safety. And he says, go up to the room, lock yourself in. I have them sending inspector. What was the guy’s name? Uh, inspector something or other is going to come up to your room and check on you, but then he’s going to be stationed to make sure and kind of guard stand guard and make sure you’re okay.

So that’s what she does. And I’m not sure. I don’t think this is her apartment. Maybe it’s her apartment or maybe it’s a room in the hotel. I’m not certain about it.

Craig: It’s where she’s staying,

Todd: because

Craig: it’s the same place. It is her apartment. We know what’s our apartment because members, she talks to somebody outside, outside who’s her neighbor or whatever.

And she’s got, um, a big sound system where she listens to like meditation slash opera tapes.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: She puts on, um, the opera from pretty woman. Uh, that was fun for me. Somebody knocks at the door and she’s like, Oh, I can’t see who is it? And he’s like, it’s the inspector? And she’s like, okay, come in. And he comes in and then she calls either.

She calls her manager, Maura, Mira, whatever doesn’t matter. And she’s coming over and she does come over. And Betty lets her in and Mira is like, Oh, I talked to the inspector downstairs and Betty’s like, what? You couldn’t have talked to the inspector downstairs. Cause he’s here in the apartment. Yes. And they go to look and he’s gone.

He’s not there. Like there still is a smoking cigarette in the ashtray, but he’s not there. And so then they freak out and. That leads up to what I thought was the most tense and interesting part of the movie. Um, first of all, all the lights go out. And from that point on everything is lit by the neon signs flashing outside, and they’re flashing in these bright colors, reds, blues greens, which is what I have come to expect from our agenda.

So that was fun. But I still am. Not exactly sure what happens here because they lock themselves in the kitchen and they see through the key hole in the door and the kitchen, whoever it was in the apartment gets a phone call, like the door phone, like the Intercom phone. And he says something like, okay, I’ll be right out.

And he leaves and he goes out and so they come out and then somebody knocks on the door and they’re like, it’s the inspector. And Mark mirror or whatever, you’re a

Todd: mirror. Like, look. She was like,

Craig: I don’t believe you, Mira. It’s

Todd: kind of a joke.

Craig: Okay. All right.

Todd: All right, go on. I get it.

Craig: She’s she’s skeptical.

She’s like, I don’t believe you. I don’t believe you who you are. And he’s like, well, here I’ll show you my ID. And she looks down through the key hole and he kind of flashes an ID, but awkwardly. So she can’t really see it. And she says, hold on a second. I think I recognize you, show me your face again. And she puts her eye right up to the keyhole and I knew this was going to happen, but he, he lifts up his gun and shoots through the keyhole.

And it’s a great shot where you actually see the bullet travel through the keyhole, into her eye and through the back of her head. And that. Was an excellent shot. And I read that that actress was somebody who had worked with Argento in the past, but had like kind of officially severed ties with them.

Todd: They had a relationship.

Craig: Were they in a real, like a romantic relationship

Todd: just broken up. Yeah.

Craig: And he asked her to be in it and she didn’t want to. And she refused initially until he gave her the script and told her what he was going to do with this part. And she was fascinated. So she did it. And I don’t blame her because it probably was the coolest scene of the movie.

Todd: God, it was, it was wonder, I mean, again, in an age. Oh, CGI. These sorts of things don’t technically impress us anymore. But this shot of that bullet going through with the shattered glass of the keyhole and everything, and coming out the back of her head and she just falls straight, flat back on the ground.

Yeah, that was one for the age was right there. I’m going to be remembering that for a long time.

Craig: That was a good one. I liked that. But then, so like the killer. Is in her house, but somehow like the real inspector is also in there, but has been stabbed. Like she stumbles upon him as

Todd: he’s dying. He stumbles in

Craig: and then the killer’s there and she kind of runs away and gets away from him somehow.

And then out of nowhere you hear this kid’s voice. That’s like Betty, Betty, come here, I’ll help you. And it turns out that all along. This figure and the vent has been a little neighbor girl, just spies on people in the building. And we had kind of seen her before and we had heard a kid’s voice before, which was, which really threw me.

But nonetheless, I just felt like this was Deus ex mocking up like, Oh yeah. The kid that hides in the Vince will pull me. In and like, they, they crawl through the Vince and they crawl to her apartment and they hide and they get away, uh, ultimately, but it just seems so random. And I, and I read that in some edits of the film, they cut that scene entirely, which I think would be fine.

Yeah. But anyway, I don’t know. I mean, We’re getting close to the end.

Todd: So anyway, she goes back to the street because that’s every, that’s what she does. Every single time somebody gets killed and she goes outside

Craig: and she goes, she goes to the theater, right?

Todd: Yeah. She goes to the theater and meets Marco there he’s on the stage.

And she says to him, you know, he says what’s happened. And she’s like, you know, Mira just died. And again, like you say, his reaction is a little. A little blahzay about it, but again, I thought this is an interesting thing. Like why would he be so blahzay? I mean, he’s always been a little weird anyway and a little closed.

Anyway. He tells, she says to him, I’m here because this is the only place. Strangely enough here on stage is the only place I feel safe. And he says, well, there’s going to be a lot of noise here because I got, I got a bunch of stage hands making some changes to the play. I’m making a change to the play tomorrow, and that’s going to reveal the killer if he’s in the audience.

And she says, are you sure he’s going to be in the audience? And he says, yes, I’m positive. He’ll be in the audience. So then the next day we get the play. It’s a pretty cool set. Piece too. I mean, it’s this part of the play where there’s a long, tall staircase. Some women in sheets who are half nude, I’m just kind of flailing around, up on a balcony.

She’s descending on the stairs. And then she meets another guy coming up the stairs and they’re singing. And then the director’s like three, two, one now, and this, this John, the giant cage full of the birds crashes through the giant window at the back of the set with. The bird handler inside the cage. He kicks out the front of the cage after it lands on the ground and all the birds go flying into the theater and they’re circling around.

And so instantly you’re thinking, okay, the birds know who the killer is. The birds are going to find the killer and this scene is so cool. It is at first it’s just one swooping around and you can tell it’s like, he’s looking, it’s like, he’s going around the whole theater at the same time. We’re getting a bird point of view.

And I don’t know how they pulled this off. I

Craig: don’t either, but it was really cool.

Todd: Oh, it’s swoops around this theater and it dives down and the. Theater’s packed of people, but it’s well lit and it’s just swooping around. And I mean, I was like, who is it going to be? Who is it going to be? The tension, the scene was incredibly good.

And the more birds come out, it’s noisy. And he’s got that soft, hard rock music going in the background, like he likes to do in these scenes, which is a total contrast, by the way, to the opera music we’ve been getting in the back of the background of a lot of the movie. But when these kills happen, it’s back to his, you know, like sort of goblin ask Daniel.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You’d like intense, heavy metal, which I love, I just identify with that. So, yeah. And then it dives down on Allen, who was the inspector and starts pecking his eyes out.

Craig: It doesn’t bother me that it’s him. It bothers me that there was no indication. That it could be. That is the, like, if it’s going to be a who done it, I want there to be some clues, even if I don’t pick up on them, I want to be able to think.

Oh, okay. Yeah. That makes sense. It’s just totally out of the blue that it was this random inspector. Or at least it seemed out of the blue to me. I don’t know. Maybe I missed something, but anyway, it is him and it picks out his eyeball and eats it, which was funny, which

Todd: was awesome.

Craig: But he’s not dead.

Todd: He’s not dead.

And this is a part I don’t quite get because the next thing we see is of her just stumbling, holding her head, going into the dressing room, like it’s all over. And I think probably her assumption was that somebody out there wrestled that guy to the ground. I mean, half the crowd is plot plowing out of the theater.

They’re scared, but I think her assumption is it was taken care of. And the director comes in, Marco comes in and says, Wow. That’s really weird. It was the inspector. Huh. And then Marco gets whacked, I think, from behind. And, uh, the killer is right there. It’s as though his eye is, is not a gaping hole bleeding from his face.

Uh, he’s remarkably on point and has a test to do, and he just picks her up and he takes her away into a part of the theater, which is by now pretty much emptied out. Takes her into a room. What it must be like the script room or something. I don’t know.

Craig: I don’t know what your papers, all show

Todd: newspapers behind a great any ties her to the chair.

And this is an I kind of saw, I kind of figured out the motivation by this point of whoever the killer would be. I realized it could be about anybody, but I kind of figured out it had something to do with. It’s probably the same person who in her past those dreams are probably real. And by now we actually know that this woman who was watching everything was her mother, because she says something and one of the last dream sequences.

Um, to her, we hear that she, uh,

Craig: but in the dream sequence, all she says is, is that you mommy? And there are, there are two women, there’s the one that’s being killed. And the one that’s like, kind of tied up watching. So I didn’t know if it was her mother who was being murdered or she was

Todd: always watching,

Craig: but it turns out, and I don’t know, it just seems convoluted to me, but it’s fine.

It turned this guy. Alan says to her, I was in love with your mother. I was infatuated with your mother.

Todd: She taught me a little game doctoring

Craig: only then.

Todd: I was

Craig: a slave and she was a sadist. Like, I feel like he says to me, like, she wouldn’t let me touch her, but, um, she liked to watch me hurt other people. So I guess that he would, you know, go get these other women and then torture them in front of Betty’s mom. And that they like got off on

Todd: it or whatever.

Yeah. Basically this whole psychosexual thing.

Craig: So anyway, I guess the point is he’s trying to recreate this with her. That’s why he’s making her watch these things. Um, so, okay. But then, so he’s got her tied up and then. He sets the room on fire. Well, first he douses everything. Like it’s all these papers lining the walls.

He douses everything with gasoline that conveniently happens to be there.

Todd: Well, he planted it there,

Craig: I would say, okay, you have probably all right. But then he gives her his gun and she’s blindfolded. She’s tied up in a chair and blindfolded and he gives her his gun and he instructs her where to point it.

Um, and tells her to shoot, which she does, but not before he strikes a match and she shoots and he falls over dead, but he’s already struck this match. So the whole room catches on fire and there’s, uh, you know, a two minute scene of her trying to get out and it kind of looks like she’s not going to, but I was just in my mind thinking, all right, hurry up, Mark, come rescuer.

Um, and he does, uh, and they get out and like, that’s the end? Hurry. Everything’s fine. And it cuts to apparently what is, I don’t know, some time later, uh, and she and Mark are together. Eh, some light mountain retreat,

Todd: I guess

Craig: they shit chat or something. I don’t know. And then she goes outside and she’s standing out there and she notices a helicopter fly over.

And then he sees on the TV. That the case of the opera killer or whatever, there’s a new development. And it turns out that the remains of the guy who burned up were not actually remains at all, but just a stage dummy. And so that guy is still at large and Mark screams out the window. Well, first he like walks into the kitchen and sees that their housekeeper has been murdered.

And so then he screams out the window at her. He’s not dead. He’s here, run, run. And so she takes off running. And Alan appears behind her chasing after, and he’s chasing her, but then somehow Mark appears and tackles him and Alan kills Mark. Right.

Todd: He basically stabbed him again very brutally while she’s standing behind watching kind of unable to do something or.

In my mind, I was thinking unwilling to do something, or I don’t know, this is kind of her Mo right? Like she does this a lot and he turns around and the way that she basically saves herself is she tells him sort of out of the blue. You’re right. I’m just like my mother, I really enjoy watching. And here come with me.

We need to run away before somebody discovers the body. Uh, so he’s thrown off by this, but it’s kind of fulfilled his fantasy and he runs off. And as he bends down to do something, she picks up a rock and bashes him over the head a couple times, just in the Nick of time, because then a whole bunch of cops and people come running through the woods.

And subdue him. And as they’re taking him away, she yells after him. I was just lying. I’m nothing like my mother, I’m absolutely nothing like my mother. And she turns around. That’s all I did look in the grass, like smiles and dives into the grass and crawls through the flowers and sees. A lizard, who’s trapped under a branch and looks at the lizard.

And I thought, well, this could go one of two ways, but no, she frees the lizard and says, go, you’re free. You’re free. Ah, and then collapses into the beautiful grass in the Swiss Alps and credits. Yeah. And I mean, I think the ending’s kind of stupid and apparently a lot of people did to awry in which distributed this in the U S really tried to get our Gentile to remove that ending from the movie, but he refused.

So that’s the ending we have. I mean, I understand what it is psychologically. And I think, again, it kind of goes back to. Her experiences as a girl, right? Like she’s sort of robbed of her childhood. She’s been sort of stunted by these experiences that she doesn’t really understand or is only beginning to.

Come to terms with, and she wants nothing more than to recapture some of that. And so that’s kind of why she gets a little loony there at the end and his life for rolling around in the flowers and playing with the animals. But it’s kind of dumb.

Craig: Well, yeah, I mean, it was just as dumb as the rest of it to me.

I don’t know why. One thing I didn’t understand. Uh, was when the, the police were taking Alan away. He said, but I didn’t do anything wrong. I just wanted to free their souls. W did I miss something or is that just a random throw away line,

Todd: random throw away? I think he’s just screaming, yelling

Craig: my favorite line in the movie besides I always jerk off before I shoot a scene, um, was at one point Mark, he’s got like this girlfriend who’s I think a model or something, and she’s only in it.

For a little while, but, uh, she says to him in casual conversation, you’re a sadist. Everyone I know says the same thing. And he says that must be very boring for you. And I thought that was hilarious. Everybody I know says the same thing. That must be boring for you. Oh, I hope I have the opportunity to use that line someday.

Todd: Those are my two

Craig: favorite parts.

Todd: Wow.

Craig: Other than that, I thought it was crap. I didn’t like it at all. I didn’t understand really character motivation on the part of the heroine, her actions and reactions were nonsensical. I have no idea if that was because of the writing or the direction of the performance.

Uh, Argento said that the actress who played Betty was the most difficult actress he ever worked with in his career. Um, I don’t know if that had anything to do with it. I am not willing to write off this genre of film, just because I really disliked this one, because some of the other ones that we’ve watched, I have enjoyed quite a bit and I’ve been really intrigued by the mystery.

Um, but, uh, even if I had been intrigued by the mystery of this one, it still would have been a letdown because it just felt like an insult, like a slap in the face, like, okay, here’s. Who the killer is. Here’s the big reveal I’ve given you nothing. There have been no breadcrumbs along the way that you could have pieced this together.

Just accept that. And I, I just thought it was lazy and, and, uh, I didn’t like it, but I’m glad that you did. I really am.

Todd: You really wanted a mystery we can solve. Right. I guess you were really watching the movie looking for clues to who this guy is and why wouldn’t you? Right. Cause it is a mystery. I’m not all that bothered by the fact that I had no chance of figuring it out because I thought the movie did a pretty good job for the first time in a long time of really, it could have been almost anybody.

Right. Like anybody who was alive could have been the killer from some unknown guy, whatever, to somebody really, really close to her. And often movies are dropping all these red herrings and trying to throw deliberately throw you off the path. And I just thought this movie had such a big cast. You know, it’s such a thing like you’re putting on this giant play and there are all these people interested in fricking Myra could have been her cause she was super pissed off, you know, that she got replaced, uh, in the, in the show and throws a, like a wine bottle at the screen at one point when she sees a Betty, you know, performing on television.

So yeah, I was fully expecting her to come back and end up being the killer somehow, you know, and it didn’t that part didn’t really bother me. I just. It was a ride that I enjoy taking and it moved me emotionally. It was genuinely tense in certain parts. I thought that as a psychological drama, all of the things that we talked about made pretty good sense.

Even though when you’re watching them from afar, you go, why is she making that choice? Why would she do that? Why isn’t she showing this emotion? Again, I was just thinking, yeah, that’s this woman, like something is really messed up with her and we’re about to figure out what it is. And we did, you know, by the end and in that sense, that original ending does.

In a very heavy handed and movie, like way hammer home. That point, this girl is still messed up. She was messed up as a kid. She was taken through these traumatic experiences of a kid. Was she shunned house shut out of her mind. They get recreated with her. She’s put through this horrible ordeal. She finally gets the best of this guy and she really wants nothing more than again, to be able to shut all this out and get back to that childhood that she lost.

It’s not perfect, but I thought emotionally and visually, and the cinematography was just beautiful. I’m sorry. But I’m like diametrically opposed to you that I feel like this is probably the best Argento movie I’ve I’ve seen yet. I mean, I’d put it above the spirit. It makes more sense than any of the movies of his we’ve seen so far, you know, they were way more dreamlike and had way more convoluted.

Um, DAS ex Mokena kind of oddball things going on. Um, then I felt like this movie had, I felt like this was probably the most accessible one we’d seen. And then on top of all that the brutality was just, it was well executed and not in the cheap way, in a very, in a way that did not glorify the violence, but made it really genuinely unsettling and.

And I like that. And I think there’s a theme there as well. You know, this it’s all about seeing her mother, seeing these murders and getting off on it. Uh, this girl being forced to watch these murders just like her mother liked to get off on. And then here we are the audience through the killer’s POV, also watching every grizzly gory detail of these murders and it implicates us to, in a way, you know, how are we any different really from these folks kind of getting off on watching this movie.

And I think the brutality of those scenes. Makes that a little more clear and more uncomfortable for us. Than it would have been otherwise.

Craig: Yeah. That makes sense.

Todd: Well, thank you for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. Keep those requests coming. We’re going to be doing some more in the next coming weeks.

We hope that you’re staying safe out there. And also that you’ll reach out to us. If you want, just find us online search for two guys and a chainsaw. We’ve got Facebook page. You can leave comments. There are we have a YouTube channel, please subscribe and check us out there. Share us with the friends, spread the love, and we will see you again next week until then I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two guys and a Chainsaw.

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