Killer Klowns from Outer Space (1988)

Episode 202, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Craig:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 guys in a chainsaw. I’m Greg. And I’m Todd. And this is gonna be kind of a special episode for us for a couple of different reasons. First of all, we have a special guest host. Our friend Heather is joining us today. Say hey, Heather.

Heather:  Hello. Yay.

Craig:  Hi, Heather. Hi. You know, I wondered when I would drop this in. I’m just gonna go ahead and do it now. This podcast might not exist if it were not for Heather. Heather cast Todd and I both in a local community theater production and by nature of our characters, Todd and I ended up spending a lot of time together both on and off stage and it was then that Todd popped the question.

Todd:  Well, this is getting awfully personal now. We’re revealing too much.

Craig:  I know. Right? And that’s where this podcast started. So if you like the podcast, you have Heather to thank. If you don’t, you have her to blame. So thanks, Heather.

Clip:  That makes me so happy. I didn’t even think of that. That’s so funny.

Craig:  Yeah. It’s totally true. The other reason why this is a special podcast is because we are recording it for our friend and loyal listener, Tyler, who has, talked with us back and forth several times, requested a couple movies. And he’s been on us to talk about this movie for a while. And finally, he said, you know what, guys? January 22nd is my 30th birthday. This would be a pretty good birthday present. So Happy birthday, Tyler.

Todd:  This one’s for you, buddy.

Craig:  We are doing Killer Clowns from Outer Space this week. And and it’s no chore because this is a fun movie, you know. We’ve talked about it for a while. It’s been on our list, our long long list. Killer Clowns from Outer Space came out in 1988, and it’s one of those movies that I just kind of grew up with. And it just so happens that Heather had been listening to our podcast and out of nowhere, she texted me and said, have you guys ever thought about doing Killer Klowns from outer space? And I said, oddly enough, we’re recording an episode on it tomorrow. Would you like to guest host with us? And she said yes. So, Heather, tell us why you were interested in this movie.

Clip:  So I don’t remember how old I was when I actually saw it for the first time. Because when it came out, I was 6. So I didn’t see it when I was 6. I’m almost positive. But it made such an impact on me whenever I did see it because I could vividly remember the clowns and the basic plot line. Of course, going back and watching it was a blast. But it’s just one of those movies that I’ve always it’s always been in my mind, so it made an impact on me.

Craig:  That’s funny. Yeah. I grew up with it too. My sister and I watched it. I it’s probably one of those movies that I made her watch. Doesn’t really seem like her cup of tea, but I

Heather:  saw it

Clip:  at your house.

Craig:  It’s definitely possible. Heather and I have known each other since we were kids. So it’s definitely possible. But when we were talking about doing it last week, I was blown out of the water when Todd told me that he had never seen this movie.

Todd:  I know. I I don’t know how this movie escaped me because everybody knew about this movie. Growing up, all my friends talked about it. It was on cable relentlessly. It was like that PG 13 cable fare. Always passed by it on the video shelves. And for one reason or another, I only watched it today for the very first time.

Clip:  That’s amazing.

Todd:  Isn’t that crazy? Oh, Todd. Well, then

Craig:  you have a very different perspective than us because you’ve only seen it as an adult. Like, you know, we saw this when we were kids. So I’m really curious as to what you thought because I think that this type of movie is right up your alley. Yeah. Well, you Am I wrong?

Todd:  No. You’re not wrong at all. You’d be absolutely correct because this movie is a total blend of horror and sci fi and comedy. And it really heavier on the sci fi than I actually thought it would be. It’s it’s a total kind of remake knockoff homage to those 19 fifties, sixties black and white cheap sci fi movies that I grew up loving, that we’ve talked about before, that my dad was a real big fan of. We had so many VHS tapes of these kinds of movies. And this movie is just like it except it it it just goes all out for the cornball and the cheese, But it does so in a great way, like, it’s just so compelling. And I don’t know why, but just to see gag after gag of clown and circus crap just really expertly spaced out throughout this movie.  Just when I thought that they had exhausted every possible clown gag, like, up to the very end, there’s another one. So that part of it Todd was just really fun. I guess maybe that’s why this movie seems to have such wide appeal and staying power is because it has this weird mix of combination that just worked for me as an adult just as much as I think it would have worked for me as a kid.

Craig:  Yeah. It’s funny. I was reading reviews today and when it came out, it it was pretty much critically panned. I mean and and understandably so. I mean, it’s not a great movie. It’s silly. It’s goofy. But even a lot of those critics who originally panned it came back, you know, years later and were, like, okay.  Fine. It’s good.

Todd:  Well, we like these kind of movies more now. I think maybe in retrospect, more of these movies have come out. It’s sort of, you know, post Scream and everything, this sort of self aware, hey, we know that this is a silly movie, so we’re just gonna go all out silly on it. And I think the oh, god. What is this? 30 years ago? Don’t tell me 30 years ago. 30 years ago, this was still kind of an oddball anomaly type thing, and a lot of people would look at it and go, these people are just dumb and they’re making a stupid movie and and this is silly. And now, I think we kind of appreciate more of those nods and those winks and these homage films. Am I wrong about that? I don’t know.

Craig:  No. I I think you’re you’re right on it. But there were those of us who got that that’s what it was at the time and I think that maybe, you know, folks like Heather and I seeing it as kids, maybe it took more of kind of a youthful or even childlike perspective to appreciate it. It is silly, it is goofy, but it’s fun. And if you’re just willing to go along for the ride, it’s fun. Heather said this movie terrified me as a child, which I think is

Heather:  so hilarious. Because I don’t real

Craig:  I mean there were parts of it. There’s one clown in this that I thought was really scary. Like, the one that tries to coax the little girl out of the restaurant.

Todd:  Creepiest scene in the movie.

Craig:  Yeah. That dude was scary. But the other ones, I didn’t find so scary. I mean, Heather, do you remember, like, what traumatized you as a child?

Clip:  I think just definitely the way they look, you know, know, because they’re just people who already don’t like clowns, like, they’re not gonna appreciate how scary these clowns are because it’s gonna give you a little bit of nightmare.

Todd:  Are you a clownaphobe, Heather? Are you one of those people?

Clip:  I’m not. Nope. But I just remember them being very scary. And I remember it being bloodier, and it’s definitely not at all. Right. So I don’t know. I I think it was just the way they looked and just the whole idea of them, like, creeping around the town. It’s like, okay.  That’s kinda scary if I was a kid and I saw those things walking around. So that must have been what it was.

Craig:  Well, that’s true. They’re scary in that way. I mean, I’m kinda scared. Heather’s a Disney gal, so I don’t wanna offend her. But I’m even kinda scared of those, you know, like characters in Disney World that walk around. Because you don’t know who’s in there.

Todd:  Like, it

Craig:  could be anybody in there. And I’ve been to Vegas several times and, like, you know, you’ve got all the, like, Disney characters, like Winnie the Pooh, like, walking around with, like, a a bottle of whiskey and, like, cane smoking. Oh, we get that.

Todd:  We get never

Craig:  know who’s in there. We get

Todd:  that in China Todd. Like, in some of these public parks, there’ll be these horrible knock off Disney characters. We’re just the outfits alone are gonna give you nightmares.

Heather:  Who would

Todd:  take their picture with this thing?

Craig:  I know. Right? And pay for it. And and the clowns are scary but that’s one of the things that I also appreciate about this movie. It was made on a on a low budget, you know, $2,000,000 of course. I I I’ll never have $2,000,000 but it’s for for film making, That’s that’s a fairly low budget and they spent most of that on production. So most of the costumes and the props and those types of things, the production team just made on their own. And so these costumes really are just rubber suits, but they’re so interesting in the way that they’re made. They’re creepy.  I don’t know how else to say it. They’re definitely creepy.

Clip:  I love stage makeup. And so going back and watching this, one of the first things that caught my eye again was the makeup was really well done. The clowns, they just look awesome with their hands and their faces. And Candace Westmore was the makeup designer for this movie, and she’s actually the niece of Michael Westmore. And the Westmore family is huge in Hollywood and special effects makeup. He’s known for getting Emmys for his work on Star Trek and M. A. S.  And so I decided it was really cool that she was connected and part of this family. And you could tell with the makeup, I think. I think she did a really brilliant job of making all the clowns different but in a similar style, and I just really appreciated it.

Todd:  Now, Craig, I’m already really excited that Heather is in our podcast because I would have to say this might be the first time that we have given any credit to the special makeup person That’s true. On any movie. If you can dive into the casting director for us as well, Heather, and maybe, like, the second unit director, that would be awesome. I have a feeling you probably know who they are. Maybe you’re related in some way. But I have to say piggybacking on what you said, seriously, I expected less from the production design of this movie than I got. I was pretty shocked at how serviceable everything was in this film from the sets. And again, they’re intentionally kind of simple and kind of corny and starkly lit, but it’s obvious it’s intentional.  And none of it seems fake and well, except it’s supposed to be in times. Mhmm. But but none of it seems cheap. I mean, it’s cheap when it’s supposed to be cheap. But then you get these clowns who yeah. I mean, they are clearly rubber suits and stuff. But like you said, they’re genuinely creepy and you get these close-up effects on them and when they’re, like, when there’s grins turn into these super evil grins. Mhmm.  You know, when they turn into, like, the Grinch type grins and get super wide and those teeth that are exposed, there must be, like, a a 100 different points of, animation in these things. They’re pretty well done, you know.

Clip:  Yeah. Yeah. Their ears move, their eyes move. It’s it’s pretty impressive.

Craig:  Yeah. It really is. And I mean, even, like, you you mentioned the set pieces. This was filmed in California somewhere, I think, like, on a boardwalk. And it it it has kind of that boardwalk circus y feel especially, you know, of course there’s the regular, you know, like town scenes and and what not. But when you get into like the circus y atmosphere, like okay. You know, usually we go through the plot and that’s fine. We can talk about the plot.  But basically, what the plot is, it’s the lovely tale of these 2 young lovers. What are their names? Mike and Debbie. Mhmm. And they see they’re, like, at make out point or whatever, and they see what they think is a comet.

Heather:  Wow. Check that out.

Clip:  Did you  see that? Yeah. I saw that. That was incredible. Come on. Let’s go check it out.  Oh, come on. No way. Debbie, it’s a waste of time. It’s gotta be a 1000 miles away. We’ve been with all whole evening.  Don’t give me that. You saw how close it was. It landed right over the hill. Now that is not a 1000 miles away.

Craig:  And they go to explore it and it it turns out it’s like this big circus tent which ends up being a spaceship for these creatures that are actually like these killer aliens, but they look like circus clowns and everything about them is circus y. And then it’s the, you know, adventure of them, like, you know, trying to convince the cops and the townspeople what’s going on, etcetera. And and there are more details that I wanna talk about. But when you get into the circus tent ship, it’s it’s just kind of surreal, but you can tell that it’s all practical. Like it’s just all cop, Dave, who’s like the good cop, the handsome, young, Todd cop, Dave, who’s like the good cop, the handsome, young, good cop, is looking for the mean, grouchy, old cop, and he just sees these clown shoe footprints leading towards the jail cells and then they’re all over the walls. And like these are clearly just like simple, like, latex cutouts of these footprints, but it just has such a surreal, creepy time, but I was watching that and I’m like,

Clip:  oh my gosh. That is so funny.

Craig:  And that is so funny. And that is so funny. And that is so funny. And that is so funny.

Clip:  And that is so funny.

Craig:  And that is so funny. And that is so funny. Long time, but I was watching that and I’m like, oh my gosh. That is so funny. And that is something that the 3 of us could do, you know. Give Todd a camera, Heather and I can be in the back cutting out the latex shoe prints, and we could do this. But it just is so effective. I just loved it.  Mhmm.

Todd:  Well, the lighting is all bright. It’s a lot of of the teal and orange and also, like, the reds and things that are evocative of circus, and that really pops on the screen. It gives it all kind of a cartoony effect. I was thinking actually, I was thinking about I don’t know if you’ve ever seen that movie, Forbidden Zone. Mhmm. Danny Elfman, it was one of his earlier things back when he was with Oingo Boingo and before he was doing film scoring. But he put together this crazy movie about some people who kind of fall down a rabbit hole and end up in this weird wacky world. And that is in black and white, so it’s not quite the same.  But it has that same effect where the design of the sets and everything are appropriately cartoonish for the situation that they’re in. And so, like in this movie, we get this great contrast between they’re outside, they’re in the woods, they’re in the town, they’re in the city, and then they go inside the circus tent and everything looks like a circus, and a cheap circus, you know, that came into town. Not a high-tech one, but it’s just high-tech enough in a clownish sort of way to make them seem like these crazy space aliens. You’re right. It just works. It all just works really well. And even even you can see nods to alien in there, you know, and the design of the corridors. And you can see nods to invaders from Mars in the big open area that they end up in where they’re hanging up these cocoons of cotton candy, which is exactly what the clowns do.  They get people and they zap them with these clown guns. They turn them into big globs of cotton candy cocoons and then they suck them out of there where they’re, like, bloody mess. It’s kinda what is it? It’s just so weird. Yeah. Silly straw.

Clip:  Like, that was perfect. Like, this clown comes over with a silly straw. I’m like, oh, god. It’s so smart.

Todd:  Like, a super elaborate silly straw that’s practically wrapping around him. It’s so funny.

Craig:  Yeah. It it’s got kinda, like, the trippy HR Puffin stuff vibe.

Clip:  It’s also

Craig:  got kind of, like, a a Scooby Doo vibe kind of thing going on. It’s it’s just a lot of fun and, you know, the the acting is cheesy, but appropriately so. Mike, who’s arguably the main guy, is played by a guy named Grant Craig, who has done a few other things. I didn’t really see anything much of note. Debbie, his girlfriend is played by Suzanne Snyder, who I recognized right away and I had to pause the movie and look her up. She was in Weird Science and she was also in Return of the Living Dead, which we’ve covered here on the podcast. But then my my favorite, and this is gonna be no surprise to Todd, my favorite cameo in this movie is Royal Dano.

Clip:  Royal

Craig:  Dano, baby. Oh, I just love Royal Dano. The other day, I was in the doctor’s office and there was an old episode of, like, Bonanza on or something, and he was on that show and he was young and handsome. Like, I was just crushing big time on Royal Dano. But he he plays this goofy farmer in the beginning who also sees the space ship crash and he thinks it’s Halley’s comet and he takes he takes his dog, Poo, and they’re gonna go out and find Halley’s comet and, like, open up a roadside attraction or whatever. And that’s the first time that we kinda see the insidious nature of these clowns because it’s this big tent. This big beautiful glowing tent and it looks pretty much just like a regular circus tent, but when you you look up close at it, like the the tent pole ropes are not ropes, they’re like cables. So you can kinda tell there’s kinda this sci fi thing going on.  And the farmer and his dog are just walking around the outside and they can’t find an entrance and then from the inside, you see the silhouette of one of these giant clowns following them on the other side of the tent and when Royal Dano walks out of frame, it opens up kinda like this porthole in the tent and uses this big net to get the dog. And then Roy and then the farmer comes back and like, who took my dog? Oh. Where’s my poo boy? And it and I got a little sad for a minute, and then I remembered it was just a movie.

Todd:  This guy’s I just love all of his lines. It’s like every hillbilly line you could think of.

Craig:  Well, I’ll be greased and fried. What in blue blazes the circus doing up in these parts? Something funny is happening around here. What in tarnation’s going on here?

Todd:  I’ll be I’ll be horn swoggled. The whole movie’s like that. That’s full of these cheesy lines that were you can see coming from a mile away, but it’s part of its charm again. Yeah.

Craig:  Yeah. Definitely. Ugh, man. And and so, you know, then Mike and Deb find the tent and they go inside and she’s like, what kind of circus is this? So he’s like, oh, it must be one of those, like, new wave French circuses. French.

Todd:  Like, Cirque du Soleil, the Todd. Suddenly.

Craig:  Gosh. And they they they find the cotton candy pod room, which, like, all of this is just so clever. Like, of course, the alien clowns would encase their victims in cotton candy and hang them up in this big brightly lit room, you know, so that they could suck them dry later or whatever. And they get chased around and all of this is so charming too because they they do everything in their power to make it seem like this is some sort of immense spaceship, but they’re just going in and out of the same door.

Todd:  There’s a matte painting every now and then. That’s about it.

Clip:  Move  the camera over here.

Heather:  It looks like freeze.

Craig:  Right. They’re like these these elevator doors that, like, they swing open and they go in and then it opens and they’re like in this enormous, like, shaft with, like, some kind of reactor or something that powers it. And they come back out the elevator. And then they go back in. And then there’s somewhere else. Then they come back out. And then there’s somewhere else. Like

Todd:  Did did you just say enormous shaft?

Craig:  Yeah. Well

Todd:  Just checking.

Craig:  Don’t don’t delve too deeply into my mind.

Clip:  It’s a

Craig:  it’s a dangerous game.

Todd:  This this whole set, it was like Willy Wonka mixed with Star Wars. I just absolutely loved it. Yes. And and there’s so many little touches. Right? Like, there’s this weird popcorn machine, like, the clown’s standing at this control panel, and he’s moving these knobs, which are these big brightly colored ball things.

Craig:  Did you say knobs and balls?

Todd:  I did. He’s touching the knobs.

Craig:  2 can play at that game, my friend.

Todd:  Oh, touche. Touche. It’s great. It’s great set.

Clip:  Yeah. And somewhere in this, when they’re in the the the circus tent, my favorite lines that I I specifically wrote down was  This is now fine hats. No,

Heather:  sir. Oh.

Clip:  Just just right from the start, we established this kind of dialogue and how the whole movie’s gonna be and they stick to it and I so appreciate that.

Craig:  Oh, yeah. It’s it’s it’s great.

Todd:  They leave no stone unturned with this stuff. Finally the clown finds them and chases them through this thing and has this giant gun that shoots popcorn. And apparently it was the most expensive thing that they built. It cost them like $7,000 to make because it actually does shoot popcorn. And, this clown chasing after me shoots popcorn all over them as they’re running out. And as they’re running, she just goes

Heather:  Popcorn white? Popcorn

Clip:  because the  clowns. That’s white.

Todd:  Okay. He said what I was thinking.

Craig:  It really is no stone unturned because when they’re chasing them, also, one of the clowns makes a balloon

Clip:  Oh my god. I love it.

Craig:  Dog. And then, like, the balloon dog is like a bloodhound that, like, helps them chase the people. Oh, gosh. It’s so funny. Just everything everything clown they’ve

Todd:  got. And that balloon dog was such a low tech special effect, but they also managed to actually make it work pretty well. Like, you you know, it wasn’t just bouncing around, but they actually had the legs moving a little bit. It would sniff the air and run. I read online that they did have to get a little high-tech with it because it kept popping on the pine needles on the ground. So they had Todd they had to coat this rubber balloon with latex in order to keep it from popping, which sounds like a lot of overkill, but

Clip:  Right.

Todd:  So be it.

Clip:  Redundant, really.

Todd:  I know. Right? Isn’t it a latex balloon? I don’t know how that works. Yeah.

Craig:  At at one I’m talking about these things randomly, but it’s because they happen randomly. Like, at one point, there’s a puppet show in a gazebo. Like, that

Todd:  it just cracks

Craig:  me up. Nowhere. The clowns, I guess, they’re setting traps. Like like, who come see our puppet show? It is this funny little puppet show where, like, the boy puppet is, like, getting fresh with the girl puppet. And she’s like, no. No. No. And then eventually, she drops below the stage and she comes back up with this huge gun and Craig guns the boy puppet and that like the one guy who’s standing there watching the puppet show, then they ray gun him Todd.  And it’s just, you know, amidst the plot of these people, you know, these few people who are aware of what’s going on and they’re trying to get the police involved and they’re trying to stop things. It’s just like you said earlier, Todd, just, a series of gags. And they’re all funny.

Todd:  Yeah. They’re improbable, and they’re hilarious.

Craig:  Like, the the clowns are, like, destroying a pharmacy and, like, the pharmacist is just standing behind the counter, like,

Heather:  like, like shaking.

Clip:  I don’t know

Heather:  what to do. Oh, gosh.

Craig:  In the clowns made a note, and I

Clip:  was like, why are the clowns shopping? Like, what Todd they  possibly need

Todd:  Yes. From the drugstore? Did they get anything from there? I

Craig:  Shaving cream and powder.

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah.

Clip:  An alien clown sneeze, just so everybody knows because

Todd:  Right. I

Clip:  thought that was hilarious.

Craig:  And then they’re, like, they’re, like, going around and collecting people, and it’s just, like, a montage. Like like, they’re like, hello. Pizza’s here. Oh, and, like, this sexy girl in negligee is like, oh, pizza. And then they deliver like a heart shaped candy box to one lady and she’s like, oh, Stan. Did you do this? Oh, god. I don’t even know that where to go. I you know, as far as plot, like, Debbie eventually, she ends up back at home and she showers because it is a horror movie.  I mean, we don’t get to see any nudity or anything, but she showers as you do in horror movies.

Todd:  She showers for a very long time. Debbie is out of commission showering for most of this movie. I like dude, he comes back to her and then you see there’s a shower and, like, oh, yeah. That’s where Debbie is. And then it leaves for about another 20 minutes and then it comes back and, oh, I guess Debbie’s finished with her shower now. Let’s see what’s going on.

Craig:  Well and they they do this hilarious thing where they show that the the popcorn that’s fallen off of her, it’s, like, just moving slightly and making these little squeaky noises. And then they show us one of the big clowns taking a big Todd bag of popcorn and dumping it into the dumpster behind the burger joint and the employee who takes the trash out then just gets sucked in there. We don’t really see what happens to him. But later, when Debbie finally gets out of the shower, she opens up her medicine cabinet and her clothes hamper and these, like, baby clown head snakes. I guess it’s, like, what the popcorn turns into, like, jump out at her. I loved those snakes. I had forgotten completely about them, and they were hilarious and kinda scary.

Clip:  They reminded me of little Audrey 2 puppets. Like, at the end of

Todd:  the shop, when all the little

Clip:  heads come out, it was, like, oh, they’re little cloud heads.

Heather:  They’re that cute. Yeah. Or That’s cute.

Todd:  Beetlejuice turns into one of these things too. I think in one of his right? It’s a similar similar thing. Similar. Yeah. Well, I’m thinking that these clowns really tar I mean, if an alien comes down to earth, they’re really gonna have to target where they land first, you know, and make the most out of it. Like, they can’t be like, you know, the signs, you know, where they land on a place with lots of water. These people targeted a place where there are 2 guys who run around in a clown themed truck Truck. Who play practical jokes on people.  There’s an amusement park here with a fun house and a big tent. And, also, there’s a restaurant called Big Top Burgers. So it was a pretty great little coincidence for us to be able to get all these clown gags in. It’s not really a coincidence. It’s just that they knew what they were doing when they landed on our planet.

Craig:  Exactly. Is it a

Heather:  coincidence? They’re

Todd:  covering their tracks well, aren’t they?

Clip:  Yeah. It  One of my favorite scenes right in the beginning, though, is when the clowns have all they’re walking towards the Todd. And we see the clown walking in front of the drug store, and there’s, like, that animatronic gorilla. I think Yeah.

Todd:  He had

Clip:  wings in them back then, and they would move. And for some reason, even though the clowns are there to completely destroy this town, he gets super nervous when he sees people walking. And he’s like, oh, crap. I can’t let them know too soon what I wanna do. And so then he backs up against the the drugstore window and starts pretending to be an animatronic as if  he’s gonna

Heather:  pass them. And I was like, why?

Todd:  That was hilarious. I thought that was great. No. Please.

Clip:  But but

Todd:  then there’s some of them are a little unsettling. First of all, there’s the one scene which I think is probably the most gore that we get in the movie, which is where this clown rides up on his totally tricked out clown style bicycle to a biker gang. And here I

Craig:  would that bicycle. It’s a tricycle.

Todd:  It’s a tricycle. Tricycle.

Craig:  And Yeah. That clown is my favorite one. By the end of the movie, I’m like, oh, he’s so cute. Like, he’s this little tiny one. Like, that’s the other thing with the clowns too. Like, they definitely all have a very distinctive look, but they are all unique too. Yeah. Like, there’s there’s the little tiny one with the green hair who rides in on the tricycle.  There’s the big scary one at the jail. There’s also then another great big like hugely obese one. There’s some really super crazy tall ones. They’ve all got different color hair. They’ve got distinctive facial expressions. So while they’re all clearly, you know, like of the same species or whatever, they’re unique and individual too. And I just thought that was so great. But, yes, the the the scene with the little guy on the tricycle.

Todd:  Well, what happens here is the one of the big biker guys comes over.

Craig:  Can I take a ride? Pow. Oh, come on. Take a ride. Can I beep the horn?

Heather:  Oh, thank you.

Todd:  And the guy just destroys the bike to which point the clown just disappears up into the air and comes right back down on with boxing gloves on like a cartoon, you know? Mhmm. He looks at the guy, gives him an uppercut, and his head goes flying. It’s so funny. But but it is hilarious, but then, you know, you see the severed head fall into a trash can. And then the medium shot that we come back to is this headless body slumping down and falling backwards. And I was like Mhmm. Oh, that’s really pretty gross. Like, it was a little too realistic for me.  But, of course, you know, everybody else runs off. All these gags are like this. Right? It’s just one can be you know, they’re interchangeable with each other. They’re in no particular order. But the idea that they give you is the clowns are everywhere and there there may be hundreds of them, and they’re setting up these traps, like you said, all across town. And that’s what makes the movie fun because, like you said, the plot itself is pretty simple and boring and it’s really only 4 or 5 actors. Right. Without these things, the town would seem pretty dead because we never really interact with anybody else.  We never follow anybody else around. We never really even see anybody else or any cars on the street except for these scenes. So Right.

Craig:  Yeah. And and you say you talked about the interchangeable nature of the scenes. They definitely are. And one of my favorite scenes I don’t know why, but it is one of my favorite scenes is where there’s this one clown on an invisible motorcycle

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  That that runs some guy in, like, a Trans Am off the road. And apparently, this was supposed to be one of the opening scenes to like introduce how, you know, dangerous these clowns were. But they had it all set up and it was supposed to be this big effect where this car flipped down a hill or exploded or whatever. But the the special effects got messed up and it just kinda like flopped over the side of the Todd. And so they moved it till later in the movie. But I still love that scene with the clown on the invisible motorbike. The effect doesn’t even look great. You can tell that it’s the clown on the bike is just in the wide shots anyway, is just, like, superimposed on the film.  But you allow your imagination to kind of ignore that. I just loved it. I just thought it was so funny.

Heather:  It was. Yeah. The use

Clip:  of the the clown conventions in this are just they are. They’re brilliant. And each scene, it’s a new clown convention, and it’s just I have a whole list of all the things that they did, you know? Because it was just like, oh my god. How many things are there? And they just they hit every single one of them. So

Craig:  Yeah. When they come to get Debbie, I don’t remember.

Clip:  Oh my god. Yes.

Craig:  They they fake her boyfriend’s voice at one point, but my favorite was when she went to try to jump out the window and they were all standing down there with the tiny little thing to catch her on.

Todd:  With fireman’s helmets on? Yes. Yeah.

Craig:  It’s, like, straight out of Dumbo with all the clouds. And and yeah. I mean, like Heather said, you could just list them off, but it just hits them all and it could I don’t know. This movie, I feel like it could have gone either way. Even when it was in post production, you know, some of I think I don’t know if it was producers. I don’t know. Like honchos or whatever were like, oh my Todd, this movie is so stupid. Nobody’s gonna like it.  And somebody, I don’t know who it was, somebody who was involved with the movie said you just don’t get it. There are going to be people out there who love this movie. And and whoever it was that, you know, the Chiodo brothers are the people who directed the movie. Right, Todd? I didn’t write down.

Todd:  Yeah. Yes.

Clip:  And wrote it.

Todd:  And it’s the only one they’ve done.

Clip:  Mhmm.

Craig:  Yeah. And it’s it’s like they just they knew what they were doing. They knew what audience they were targeting, and they were right. It’s it’s funny. And and there are people in my life that I would never sit down to watch this with because they wouldn’t my my my partner just walked into the room and gave me a look because I have made him sit down and watch it. He’s not as big a fan. So, you know, those kind of people are are are not gonna like it.

Todd:  Joyless, boring. Joyless, soulless people.

Craig:  But fun people are, you know, you you just appreciate the silliness and not only that, but you appreciate the obvious effort that went into it. My partner is a theater person Todd, so maybe it doesn’t count, but you know, the 3 of us are all to some degree, theater people and I think that we can look at something like this and see the effort that went into it and just, at the very least, appreciate that. The passion that went into it. And it’s it’s cool. It’s it’s fun to watch.

Clip:  Well, and again, just like the commitment to the style. The way the lines were written, the way they were delivered, all of it. And and and you know this from the very beginning with our hillbilly man on the hill, like, we are diving in from the start, and you know exactly what to expect throughout the entire thing, which I I appreciate.  Yeah. It’s true.  It’s just like I said, it’s  just this

Heather:  weird mix

Todd:  that somehow works perfectly. And and if one part of it was just a little off balance, if it was a little too gross or it was a little too scary or the acting was a little not so knowingly bad, I mean, it might not have fallen apart, but it just wouldn’t be so joyful as this movie turns out to be, you know.

Craig:  Well, and I think that there is a good balance too because for the most part, it’s it’s very silly. But there are some scary parts. Like I said, there’s that one I don’t know, maybe it’s just me, but there is that one clown that really freaked me out, the one in the jail. This one older cop, his name is officer Mooney, who I don’t have my IMDB page pulled up, but he was played by this guy who I’ve seen play a grumpy cop in several movies.

Todd:  It’s John Vernon, and he was also don’t forget Stryker from Curtains.

Craig:  Stryker? Stryker. I forgot about Stryker. Okay. So yeah. So he’s this big jerk. And people are calling in saying their wives have been taken by clowns and he doesn’t believe it. He thinks it’s just this big prank to, I don’t know, make him unhinged or I I don’t even know what he thinks. But eventually, this giant clown shows up and it’s it’s funny because, you know, like it shoots him it does the whole bouquet of flowers, gag and sprays him with water.  And then when he goes to handcuff him, like it’s fake hands that just come off. But he eventually gets him in a cell with these 2 other guys that he’s been a big jerk to earlier. And the, clown has one of those party favors. I have no idea what you call those things. Those things that you blow into and there’s like the paper tube that unrolls. Like I was like pressing my mind like, what is that called? I have no idea. Anyway, he blows that out and it turns into a big hand that grabs Moody and then like smashes his head into the bars. And the next time that we see Moody, Dave, the cute nice cop, comes back to the precinct and he follows those footprints that I had mentioned before and he finds the other guys that were in the cell in cotton candy Todd.  And then when he walks back into the precinct, that scary clown is just sitting at the desk with his back to the camera. And that alone was like pee in my pants scary to me. Mhmm. But then the clown turns around and Dave hears him. And the clown has Mooney with, like, just a little bit of rouge on his cheeks. Like, not crazy makeup or anything, but it’s like a little bit of rouge on his cheeks. And he’s using him as a marionette and he says Don’t worry, Dave. All we wanna do is kill you.  It’s so spooky and then he pulls his arm out of the guy, and it’s covered in, like, blood and guck that he just, like, flicks off onto the floor. That is some scary shit.

Heather:  Oh, true. That’s true. And it’s

Clip:  one of the darkest scenes in the whole, like, literally dark out of the whole, movie. Yeah. It was it’s a creepy scene.

Craig:  That one and then I feel like it was maybe even the same clown or maybe I’m just projecting because that clown is nightmarish to me. But I I mentioned before, you said there’s that Big Top Burger. And we don’t see a lot of what goes on there, but there are a few scenes there. And there’s one where it’s super crowded and there are these totally frustrated moms who are trying to deal with their kid. And this one girl

Clip:  who is behaving perfectly,

Craig:  but, apparently, behaving perfectly, but, apparently, her mom is super irritated with her. They’re sitting there, and the clown is outside, and the girl looks, and the clown waves at her. And, like, this little girl is so cute and it’s so innocent. Like, it’s like those old from the eighties McDonald’s commercials where Ronald McDonald would, like, wave at the kid and the kid would wave and then they’d go off ice skating together or something. But this the clown waves at her and he’s got that creepy smile and then she waves back and then it cuts to the clown and you see that he’s holding this giant

Clip:  mallet behind his back. And then

Craig:  it cuts back to the table and you see mallet behind his back. And then it cuts back to the table and you see that the kid is gone. And you’re like, oh, no. And and the kids, like, starts making her way out to the clown. And just at the very last minute, the mom grabs her and pulls her back in, not even noticing that she’s about to be abducted and killed by a maniacal clown. But, like, just those and and those may have even been the only ones, but I found those moments those moments to be genuinely scary. Mhmm.

Clip:  Well, and those moments, like, perfectly capture what is scary about a clown because you do. You trust them. They’re funny. They’re kind. Kind. So when you see a clown coaxing you out with their finger, you’re like, sweet. I’m gonna get some candy or a balloon Todd, yeah, be taken out to your death. So, yeah, that that definitely is that fear of clowns for sure.

Craig:  Todd, what is it? Like, caloraphobia Todd, what is it?

Clip:  Like, caloraphobia or or I don’t remember what it is.

Craig:  But Todd thinks fear of clowns is stupid. I totally get it.

Todd:  Now let’s correct the record here, Craig. I didn’t say it’s stupid. What I said was I don’t think it used to be such a big thing as it is now. I think that

Craig:  that’s true.

Todd:  It’s become culturally this thing that we’ve kind of commonly decided we’re supposed to be afraid of clowns. And we’ve been a little over worried that kids are going to be afraid of clowns. And I feel like it’s become culturally, like, a bigger deal than it probably ever was. I’m not saying people weren’t scared of clowns before, but I just feel like now we have this notion that everybody’s supposed to be afraid of clowns and that clowns are inherently scary, and I I don’t buy that. I don’t I never felt as a kid that clowns were inherently scary, and I don’t think most people, you know, 60 years ago, felt like clowns were inherently scary. I think it’s movies like this that have created this problem for a lot of people. For clowns. Yeah.  Clowns. And it is a real problem.

Craig:  Yeah. I know. I do. I feel bad for the for the clowns of the world because they get a bad rap. You’re right. I mean, even us. I mean, we’re a little bit older than Heather so I don’t even know if she remembers this. But us growing up, you know, clowns were a a cool fun thing.  Like, yeah, Ronald McDonald was cool. But, oh my gosh, growing up, I wanted nothing more in my life than to go to a taping of the Bozo the Clown Show.

Todd:  Oh, yes. Worship Bozo.

Craig:  Yes. And and my my parents always promised me that they would take me because it films in Chicago, which is not that far or filmed, excuse me, in Chicago, which is not that far from where we lived. And they never did, and I’ll never forgive them for it. Oh my god. I wanted to play the grand prize game. I know.

Todd:  I wanted to get that polyostring cheese.

Clip:  Home and you were, like, I can surely throw the ball into the bucket. Come on.

Heather:  What’s wrong with you?

Todd:  Oh, we set that up at one of my birthday parties as a kid, and that is a lot harder than it looked. I’m here to say birthday boy was disappointed that day.

Craig:  Anyway, it all culminates. Everybody gets together. The ice cream truck guys, Dave and Mike and Debbie.

Todd:  When you say everybody, you mean, like, all 4 people.

Heather:  Right. Those 5 people.

Craig:  Well, and

Clip:  before you get into that, the way we know that the clowns have pretty much kind of taken over this town except for the 5 people left, they have, like, this Monty Python bring out your dead scene where they’re, like, hiding down the street with, like, a clown street sweeper and, like, clowns are chucking cocoons out of windows and they’re all over the streets and they’re sucking them up into this car. And  there  are streamers everywhere and it looked really fun but also terrifying.

Todd:  Also creepy. Yeah.

Craig:  It was it was a little like amazing. I had forgotten about that part.

Todd:  It was a fantastic escalation that needed a scene like this, and they really went over the top. It was also a little creepy, like, in the same way, especially a couple of those shots of them. Because the clowns, they’re fairly I mean, I shouldn’t say they’re expressionless. Their expressions are just pretty well frozen in these huge grins. And when they’re kind of stumbling along very slowly, but very methodically through there, it was like the parade scene out of Something Wicked This Way Comes.

Clip:  Yes. You know?

Heather:  No. Exactly.

Craig:  It was just like that. Exact same thing.

Todd:  And, yeah, it was creepy as as well as super cartoonish. And, like you said, it got that point across that pretty much the whole town’s been sucked up into this thing, and they’re gonna leave.

Heather:  Mhmm. Mhmm.

Craig:  Right. But they have, I guess, moved their ship to the amusement park, which is on a pier. That was

Todd:  so Scooby Doo. Right? Well, I know where I’d be, the old amusement park. Yeah. That’s where the clowns must be hiding. Yeah. Old man Withers is the caretaker down there. We should go talk to him.

Craig:  And we well and they they get there, and the old guard is like, what are you guys doing here? The clowns get there. And so they he’s like, what are you gonna do with those pies? And so they throw, like, a 100 pies on him. But apparently, these pies, like, completely eat his flesh and he’s just left, like, a gooey ice cream skeleton sundae on the ground.

Todd:  Apparently, the Chiodo brothers wanted that guy to be another cameo, of Soupy Sales. And Soupy Sales used to get a pie in the face on an old kids show called, Lunch with Soupy Sales. But even at this time, I mean, that show was so old that the producers didn’t wanna spring for this guy’s plane ticket out because they’re like, the audience isn’t gonna know who he is anyway, so don’t bother. Right. So he didn’t get his cameo.

Craig:  They they may have been right about that.

Todd:  Yeah. I think so.

Clip:  It would

Craig:  have been fun for us to mention.

Todd:  Or maybe we would know about

Craig:  that. Was Soupy Sales.

Todd:  Instead, we get to mention that guy wasn’t Soupy Sales, and we still get some fun trivia here. It works either way.

Heather:  Yeah. It were yeah. In hindsight,

Craig:  it’s all good. So they go back into the scary fun house

Clip:  Which is called the crazy house, by the way.

Heather:  I mean, it

Clip:  stood out to me. It’s not the fun house. It was the crazy house.

Todd:  The fun house must be copyrighted or something. Who knows?

Craig:  It was crazy.

Heather:  It was.

Craig:  And there are funny things that happen in here, like the Ice cream brothers, who by the way I read were, like, an established comedy troop. I didn’t think they were all that funny in this movie,

Todd:  but whatever.

Clip:  They were very, like, 3 stooges esque  in Yeah.  Their mannerisms and and how they spoke to each other.  So

Craig:  Maybe they just weren’t given enough material. I don’t

Todd:  know. That’s

Craig:  But, they get they get dropped into a ball pit and seduced by a couple of lady clowns with inflating boobs.

Todd:  Yes. And and what comes of that? Because after that, the next time we come back to them, they’re they’re out of it. Right? I mean, they’re

Craig:  They’re out of it, but they’re covered in They’re covered in

Heather:  clown kisses. Yeah. Yes. Their shirts

Clip:  are shredded, so I’m not sure what happened. But they’re

Craig:  Oh, yeah. I think they got lucky with those lady clowns.

Todd:  Oh my goodness. It’s a

Clip:  whole movie for them. They were just trying to find a lady, like, the entire night. Right.

Heather:  They they said And

Todd:  I look because it’s always about and it’s so it sounds so childish when it was said because the way that, who is it, Dave, gets them to follow him is he’s like

Clip:  Come on, guys. Will you help me? Look. At least take me over to Debbie’s house. Okay? I think she’s in danger.

Craig:  Does she have any roommates?

Clip:  Yes. She’s got 2. She’s got 2 beautiful roommates with big boobs.

Craig:  Oh, my gosh. Let’s go. The the the character of Mike is so goofy. Like, he’s so over the top, but it was hilarious. Yeah. Yeah. She does have 2 roommates, and they’re really hot.

Clip:  Okay. We’ll come.

Heather:  Alright. Here we go. Yeah. You’re right.

Todd:  And then there’s one of the clown is turning her boobs, like, inflate to enormous levels. That’s

Craig:  fantastic. And he says, are are you Debbie’s roommates? Oh my gosh. So

Todd:  And then they’re

Craig:  going to a

Clip:  ball pit. They’re in a ball pit while this is all happening.

Todd:  That was great.

Clip:  Which is supposed to be like a Jacuzzi, but it’s like

Todd:  I don’t know. Oh, it’s not. Freudian about this. Right?

Clip:  Right. Yeah.

Craig:  And and I forgot that the clowns had captured Debbie. But instead of, like, putting her in the cotton candy, they put her in a giant balloon.

Clip:  Balloon.

Craig:  Yeah. And and so Dave and Mike have to they go into the cotton candy pod room, which is full now. Like, they’ve gotten everybody in town. And they find Debbie and they get her out of the balloon. And they’re running around and getting chased and they go down a fire pole. Again, like a a fireman’s pole, like, hit every clown note you can hit. And then I loved this. It’s so funny.  They they show these long shots of the good guys running into this, what I assume is like a tunnel, but it’s a giant angler fish head. Mhmm. And then and then they eventually run out the other side out of another one. And I felt like, oh my gosh. Did they build that giant thing just for these two shots of them to run-in and out of it? Like, they look so cool and you only see them for, like, 10 seconds.

Todd:  I don’t know why, Craig. I was thinking exactly the same thing as you. And I was looking I actually went back and rewind that scene. I was trying to figure out if that maybe they used miniatures and,

Clip:  and it

Todd:  was kind of a matte shot, but it was so effective that I couldn’t even tell even looking at it closely. It was really good.

Craig:  Yeah. They used miniatures in the scene coming up too because they they get chased around. They end up oh, one of my favorite gags is they find a door and and Mike opens it and he’s like, another door? And then he keeps opening it, like, 6 or 7 times and there’s more doors behind it. But every time, he just gets more and more exasperated. But all he says is, another door?

Todd:  Oh my god.

Craig:  So funny. But they end up they end up in, like, what looks like the the middle of the big top. And and there’s, like, blocks or platforms all stacked up in the middle. And they’re surrounded by clowns. And the good guys climb up to the Todd. And the clowns start climbing up after them. And then, the ice cream bros show up again and speak through their intercom through the clown head on the top of their thing which distracts the clowns for a while. So the good guys on top of the tower can kinda get away.  But then the piece de resistance, this enormous they called it the Godzilla clown, descends from the ceiling onto this platform and that’s it’s it’s like the big bad at the last level of a video game. Yeah. It’s just

Clip:  The queen bee. Yeah.

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah.

Craig:  He’s enormous. He’s got these enormous teeth. He roars. And they did all this with miniatures. This the it was one of the Chiyoda brothers in a suit and the Chiyoda brothers themselves built this miniature set with the miniature ice cream truck. And it’s really funny because the ice cream truck, the Godzilla clown throws it and it explodes. So you think that the brothers are dead, but this is a PG 13 movie. So everybody’s okay in the end, kids.  Don’t worry about it. But then I love okay. So Debbie and Mike just, like, peace out. They’re like, k. We’re we’re done. Bye, Dave. Thanks for your help. And they leave Dave in there and the Dave, like, tries to shoot the clown.  They know at this point that you can kill them by shooting their noses. If you shoot their nose, they explode and then they’re dead.

Clip:  Which their death reminds me of a Buffy the vampire, like, a vampire from Buffy’s death where they kinda burst into dust, but it’s glitter and it’s fatless.

Craig:  Totally true.

Todd:  It’s confetti.

Craig:  It is it is confetti.

Heather:  There you go.

Clip:  Yeah. Confetti. Yeah. That’s good.

Craig:  So the cops are gathering around outside and Mike and Debbie are out there with the cops and everybody’s looking on and on. Meanwhile, poor Dave is in there left alone to fight this guy. And it’s so funny because when you see the giant clown, like, holding Dave, like, he’s clearly just holding, like, a Ken doll. Like

Todd:  But it’s only for a couple seconds. But yeah.

Craig:  It is only for a couple seconds, and it’s charming to me that they didn’t even bother to try to make it look more real than they did. And and the the big top, you know, starts to spin and it’s taking off and it rises up out of the ground and it looks like a a giant spinning top. But then Dave, the cop, pulls off his badge and uses the pin on the badge to pop the nose of the giant Godzilla clown. And the clown explodes and the space ship explodes. And, you know, everybody’s like, oh my gosh. What happened? But then the ice cream brothers show up, and they’re like, oh, we hid in the freezer. So we were fine. And then Dave shows up.  I don’t even how did they explain how he got out there?

Todd:  They didn’t. They

Clip:  well, they’re all in the little clown car and it comes flying out of the sky. And then the brothers pop out and then Dave pops out of it. So it’s like he rescued them out of the spaceship and, like, they were driving out as it exploded and they made it.

Craig:  That’s hilarious. And then Debbie, I think, says, do you think it’s over? And and Mike’s like, yeah. Sure. And then they all get, like, 15 pies in the face, and then that’s the end. It’s hilarious. And there are so many things, like, we didn’t even mention in the very beginning, like, over the credits. Like, there’s totally a killer clown song,

Heather:  which is amazing.

Todd:  Oh, yeah.

Craig:  It’s so good. There’s a whole soundtrack.

Todd:  Apparently, this punk band put it together, and it’s the soundtrack lasts almost as long as the movie, the album. They wrote songs and stuff. Crazy.

Clip:  Well, they’re they’re all very clownish. It’s perfect, like, circus y that had they have all those elements of circus music mixed in and it was Yeah. Very smart.  Mhmm. Yeah. It it

Craig:  was a lot of fun. Well, they’ve been talking about making a sequel to this movie literally since it came out, and there have been announcements that it’s gonna get made and it’s not gonna get made. If you look at IMDB, you can it’s it’s going to be called the Killer Clowns Return in 3 d. Oh my gosh. And the only people attached to it are the Chiodo brothers and the guy that plays Mike. And supposedly, years ago, when they were talking about story, Grant Craig, who plays Mike, said that he was gonna be back and the killer clowns were gonna come back and he was gonna be like the old town drunk who tries to warn everybody, but nobody listens to him and that kind of thing. And it’s been in preproduction hell forever. It looked like it was gonna get made in 2018 because that would’ve been the 30th anniversary, but then Disney acquired the studio and they canceled it.  So, I don’t know I mean, people are still talking about it. I bet we’ll get it eventually. I don’t know when, but I bet we do. And and if we do, and I’ll be happy if we do, but if we do, I hope they kind of stick to their roots and stick with the practical effects and, you know, the goofy charm. You know, don’t don’t go all CGI with the clowns and stuff. You know? I I wanna see them the way I remember them if I’m gonna see them at all. And even though the movie didn’t do well really when it came out, it definitely has become a cult classic. The imagery, the images of those clowns, I bet teenagers today, even if they don’t know where it comes from, would be familiar with the images of those

Clip:  Oh, yeah.

Craig:  Clown faces.

Todd:  Oh, yeah. There have been products.

Clip:  Costume studio or, like like, online place where you can buy costumes. Like, the the specific clown masks, they’re available every Halloween. So So Yeah. It’s definitely  a thing. They’ve had action figures and things. And I think

Todd:  the last couple of

Clip:  years, just very

Craig:  recently, Universal Studios in

Todd:  Florida, which does their Halloween horror nights every year and always has these themed haunted houses. Todd think the last 2 years had a Killer Klowns from Outer Space themed haunted house. Isn’t that crazy? It’s still kind of in the pop culture. I hope these guys are still making tons of money off of it.

Craig:  Me too. Yeah.

Todd:  Well, I don’t even think we mentioned, much about these guys’ background either. The Chiyoda brothers were well known at the point of that this movie was made for their special effects in Hollywood. Mhmm. They came from the Bronx. They were, behind Critters. All the Critters movies, they did the designs for those. Even Team America World Police, they were the supervisors of the puppets there. Some stuff for Ernest, Scared Stupid, and Elf, and a lot of movies, especially in the eighties.  Little bits and pieces of it would be done.

Craig:  It’s funny that you mentioned that they work on Critters because, fun fact, Heather’s dad worked on one of the Critters movies. Right?

Clip:  Mhmm.  Yes. He did.

Todd:  Yep. Which one?

Clip:  Critters in Space, I think.

Heather:  The 4th one maybe? Awesome.

Todd:  We should get him on here. Talk about that one.

Clip:  You should. He would have a blast with this.

Craig:  And who knows? Maybe he’s crossed paths with the Chiodo brothers. Maybe he could give us some insight. Who knows? Happy birthday, Tyler. We hope you enjoyed the episode. Sorry that it took us a while to get around to it. We’ve got lots of requests and we do our best to try to keep them coming. But since it’s your birthday, we were happy to do it for you, and we wish you a very happy 30th. Enjoy your thirties.  They’re amazing.

Todd:  The thirties I agree. Oh, fantastic. They really are.

Craig:  And if any of you liked this podcast, you can find us all over the place. We’re on Itunes. We’re on Google Play, Stitcher. Just do a simple Google search 2 guys in the chainsaw podcast and you’ll find us. We have a whole lot of back episodes for you to choose from. You can also contact us via our web page or our Facebook page and we love hearing from you. We love chatting with you. And if you have any movies that you would like for us to take a look at, we will definitely put them on our list.  Hopefully, we can get around to them at some point. And thank you, Heather, for joining us. It was an absolute pleasure to have you, and you’re welcome back anytime.

Clip:  This was super fun. Thank you guys for having me.

Craig:  You’re so welcome. So until next time, I’m Craig.

Todd:  And I’m Todd.

Craig:  With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.