sleepwalkers still

Hailed (a bit wrongly) as “the first Stephen King movie written specifically for the screen,” this early 90’s video store staple is a product of its time. With early CGI morphing in all its glory, in-your-face incest, tons of celebrity cameos, and some fairly brutal violence, it doesn’t hold much back. You just kinda wish it turned out better as a result.

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Sleepwalkers (1992)

Episode 196, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Craig: . Hello and welcome to another episode. It’s Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig. 

Todd: And I’m Todd 

Craig: and we are right smack dab in the middle of the holiday season, but we decided to go ahead and just do a something that we wanted to do. We’ve been doing a lot of requests lately, which is great. We absolutely love requests, keep them coming.

Um, we get to see a lot of things we might not otherwise see when you guys suggest things, but every once in a while I will just be, you know. Kinda off on my own train of thought and, uh, something will come to mind just randomly out of nowhere. I actually, I have no idea where I came up with this, but I was reminded of 1990 twos sleepwalkers based on an unpublished story by Stephen King.

Uh, this movie was. Advertised as the first Stephen King project that was written specifically for the screen, even though I think that’s kind of a lie. It was really just a story that he had never had published, but it came out in 1992 I would have been in middle school, probably like seventh, eighth grade.

I remember seeing it. I don’t think that I saw it in the theater or anything, but when it eventually came around to video and then cable, this was a movie that me and my sister threw into our rotation. Fairly heavily. It has to have been at least 15 years since I’ve seen this. So I’m, I was interested in revisiting it, watching it again yesterday for the first time in 15 years.

Um, I had thoughts,

Oh boy. What about you? What’s your 

Todd: history with this movie? I kind of thought this might be a Craig and Kristin staple, to be completely honest with you. I could see that it has elements that appeal to both, like those other movies you’re talking about. This movie I always pass by on the shelves there in the horror section with a pretty iconic looking cover, but I never once picked it up.

I kind of glanced at, and it didn’t look appealing to me at the time, and I never. You saw it before today and I saw today and uh, wow. We’re going to have a lot of fun here. I think it’s talking about this 


Craig: I hope so. Yeah. I mean, there, there are definitely Stephen King elements to this movie. You know, it’s kind of set in this small town.

You’ve got this kind of diverse cast of wacky small town characters, which is very Stephen King, but it’s, I don’t know, a little bit. Different from his other stuff too. It’s an interesting movie. It was directed by Mick Garris who has directed other movies as well, but he, I think is more well versed as a writer.

Um, and he wrote some movies that I really like. He wrote Hocus Pocus batteries, not included, which was a super cute little movie. Love that movie. Yeah, it’s a, it’s a good movie. Stephen King gets the writing credits. It’s based on his story make Garris actually wasn’t the first director on the project, but Stephen King, um, had, I dunno even know what you call it, like authority over directorial choices and the original director who is attached wanted to make some changes that seeming King didn’t like.

And so. They got Mick Garris and uh, this is the movie we ended up 

Todd: with. Kind of makes you wonder, doesn’t it, what those are, what those changes were. 

Craig: I do wonder, and I don’t know. On the one hand, of course, it would always be interesting to see what somebody else would’ve done with it. But in this case, I kind of like that it sticks with King’s vision.

Now, Stephen King is a, you know, an amazing author. I am a huge fan. Of his, I’ve read nearly everything that he’s written, but when it comes to filmmaking, sometimes I feel when he has major involvement in the filmmaking process, mm. It’s kind of a hit or miss kind of thing. Yeah. The only thing that, uh, King has ever directed himself was that movie about the sentience machines.

Maximum overdraft. 

Todd: Some overdrive. Yeah. With , 

Craig: which is a something special. We should, we should probably do that movie at some point, but 

Todd: it’s so funny that his earliest movies are probably some of his best adaptations, aren’t they? Yeah. Also because, well, for example, and I need to go back and watch him. I really liked, I remember liking Firestarter as a kid, but I haven’t seen in ages.

Um, the dead zone was great. I think I remember it being great. Carrie was phenomenal. 

Craig: Oh yeah, 

Todd: we’d liked Cujo and I never saw Christine. Good. The shining, of course, is probably the most iconic, but that has, you know, that diverges quite a bit from his novel 

Craig: and he hates it, Murray, at least historically, he’s hated it apparently.

Now with the release of dr sleep, he feels like the film adaptation of dr sleep has rectified for him. A lot of the things that he had problems with in the shining and as, and as companion pieces, he now thinks they’re really good, so he’s kind of pivoted a little bit on the shining, which is good because you know, I understand.

I read the shining. It’s an excellent book. I loved the movie. Two, but they are fairly different. Uh, and I can imagine being an artist, having your work adapted, you know, your, your art is your baby. And to see somebody make changes, I can understand how that would be difficult, but I’m, I’m glad that he’s kind of pivoted on that a little bit.

Todd: Well, and the thing I was thinking about as I was watching this movie is it’s, it’s so Stephen King, it almost feels like I’m watching the story being read to me. That’s how Stephen King it is. And I could kind of see how I feel like this movie would have read a lot better than it played out on the screen because most of the problems I have with it are how it played out on the screen.

Like the acting, uh, this maybe some of the direction, even the editing, like so much of the movie, what’s wrong with it? I think has. Not to do with the story or the plot, or even some of the characters and their development or, or, or, or any of that. It mostly has to do with the how it visually ends up, you know, as a movie, I think.

Craig: And I think that a lot of that. Probably has to do with the time. 

Todd: Oh yeah, for sure. 

Craig: It shows its age. I mean, it’s not like 1992 was a hundred years ago or anything, but in terms of special effects, especially CGI and those types of things, and just some other even practical creature effects, it looks a little bit dated.

And another thing about Stephen King. And as much as I love him, and, and this really isn’t a criticism, but sometimes he takes a little while to get going in his novels. And I felt like this movie took kind of a little while to get going for me. In fact, the first, I would say probably almost half of the movie, I was like, Oh my God.

Todd is going to think this is so stupid,

but then 

Todd: you know me so well, 

Craig: but then in the second half I was like, no, this is fun. I like it. Anyway, it’s okay. So it’s called sleepwalkers and it’s based on this legend, which I. I guess Stephen King probably just made it up. I, I’ve never heard anything like this before, but, um, it opens up with this screenshot of a definition from the chilled coffee encyclopedia of arcane knowledge from 1884.

And it says, a sleepwalker is the nomadic shape shifting creature with human animals. Feline origins vulnerable to the deadly scratch of the cat. The sleepwalker feeds upon the life force of virginal human females, probable source of the vampire at legend, and that basically just kind of lays it out there for you.

That’s what we’re dealing with here. We’re dealing with some shape shifting, feline type creatures who do exactly what the definition tells you. They go around, uh, finding. 

Todd: Shifting their shape, 

Craig: finding Virgin and stealing their life force. And it is kind of an interesting take on the vampire lore. I think.

Uh, it’s, the opening scene starts out, it tells us where in bodega Bay, California, and it opens up with this  song. Uh, I think the title is bodega or something like that. I, I don’t know. I. I really liked this song. It’s just this weird kind of humming song we’re in. You just kind of homes the same melodic line over and over again, but it’s, it’s dark tonally, uh, and a little bit sad and it, it, it really sets a mood.

But we open up on a crime scene apparently, and we get the first of many cameos with Mark Hamill. As one of these cops investigating this crime scene. 

Todd: I actually did like a double-take with this one. I was like, that guy. That’s not Mark Hamill is it? Is that Mark Hamill and I probably spent the entire scene just trying to work out if he really was Mark Hamill.

Pretty incredible. And you’re right, there’s so many fricking cam cameos in this movie. You can’t even imagine. It’s insane. 

Craig: It’s kind of surprising because ultimately the movie, like I’m going to talk about how much I like it cause I really do, but it’s not a great movie and it’s pretty amazing that. They got so many big name people in general, but also, you know, specifically whore people to cameo in this movie.

And Mark Hamill, you know, I think that maybe one of the reasons for your double-take is he’s still so young here and he’s in great shape and he, he looks great. He’s got a mustache. 

Todd: Apparently he did this cameo just, um, I think the same year he started doing the joker. The joker. Yeah. Second most famous role, and apparently they actually added this scene later.

Craig: Oh, I didn’t know that. 

Todd: Yeah. After they did the, you know, the test audience, uh, thing, uh, the director basically called in a favor. Mick Garris apparently met Mark Hamill on his first job as a receptionist for star Wars. So he called in a favor to him for that. 

Craig: It is crazy. 

Todd: He just wanted to introduce the mythos, I guess, of the cat creatures after they had the test audiences and they felt like the scene would, would do it a 

Craig: little better.

Well, I don’t know if that really is true or not. No, I mean, it is a duty kind of then it doesn’t really do a whole lot, but we find out that a mother. Son have gone missing. And you know, the people in the town are very concerned because they were so close. I hope nothing happens to them. Um, there are dead cats all over the place, which I don’t really understand.

Like, I hope all these dead cats got hung up just that one night, because otherwise. Women being full of thought. That was weird.

Okay, whatever. So there is these dead cats hung all over outside and they go inside and there’s silly little jump scare where they hear a cat that jumps out of the closet at them. And then there’s another jump scare where a shrivel corpse falls out of the closet. And you know, it’s like mummified, like it’s all wrinkled and old, but.

It has a Rosen, its hair, and it’s wearing, um, braces. And Mark Hamill says it’s a little girl.

It’s so, okay. So little girls are in danger apparently. And then we cut to the title. And then there’s a really interesting opening credit sequence where we see a lot of old, which seemed fairly authentic, hieroglyphics dealing with cats. And of course we know that the Egyptians like worshiped cats and that type of thing.

So that’s expected. But then there’s also other artwork that I presume is fake, where you see like half cat, half people, and there’s. One where clearly this cat person is like sucking something out of a screaming girl’s mouth. And so it’s very, very on the nose, you know, telling us what’s going on here.

And then we get to our main setting, which is Travis, Indiana, and we see this little, not little, actually, it’s kind of a big, beautiful country home. And. The song from I think the 60s don’t, don’t check me on that, but sleepwalk is playing. It’s instrumental. I always remember it from the end of LA Bomba when you find out that Richie Valens has died, that’s the song that’s playing.

It’s very sad, but it’s actually, I love that song. I, I think it’s great. 

Todd: It’s a nice song. It’s classic. 

Craig: A hot. Shirtless, young man. 

Todd: I knew you were going to say this. 

Craig: Listen, he’s hot. I can’t help 

Todd: it now. I see why Craig chose this movie. 

Craig: Come on. It’s just, it’s just w well, I guess it’s not just that one part.

It’s pretty much just that one part. It’s 

Todd: rather attractive guy. 

Craig: He has these good looking guy. His name is Brian Krauss. He’s done tons of TV. He’s probably most famous. Aside from this, he did a stint on the original, uh, series of charmed, and I vaguely remember him from that. I didn’t watch that show religiously, but I watched it every once in a while.

He’s sitting there and he’s looking at a yearbook before we even really see specifically what he’s looking at. He takes out a. Pocket knife and carves a T into his arm. And then we see that he’s looking at this beautiful girl named Tonya, and he even actually says, Tanya, I know. And so he’s got his eye on somebody already, and of course we already know what’s going on.

And then were introduced to his mother, Mary, who is played by Alice Creig. I may say names wrong. I apologize. She’s really recognizable to me. She has a very severe face. She’s gorgeous. Yeah. That she has kind of this severe face. Um, intimidating, I think. Um, she played the Borg queen in one of the star Trek movies and she was also the main villain in the silent Hill movie.

I think she’s really cool 

Todd: and she was good in this movie. You know, another thing about this movie is it’s pretty well cast, I think, um, you know, look and that sort of thing. She looks great for the part, he’s great for the part. Um, the girl, you’re going to start talking about Tanya soon. She looks great for the part and all pretty accomplished actors and actresses.

Even if they weren’t at this point, they prove themselves by having like over a hundred credits. Almost every single, 

Craig: yeah, all of them still working. Yeah. I think that the acting is good. Now. There are times when the writing is not so good where they just kind of had to go with what they were given, but we meet Mary and we see that she has set up all of these like bear traps for.

Cats and cats seem to be kind of hanging around outside their house and she seems very concerned about that. But Charles comes downstairs and they have a chat and I don’t know, 

Todd: like. 

Craig: From the very beginning. As soon as he says like, she’s very concerned and he’s clearly trying to comfort her or make her less concerned or whatever, and he’s like, come on, dance with me.

And she’s reluctant, but she does. And as soon like the second that they start dancing, I’m like, yeah.

they seem like a really close mother. It’s a. And, uh, so they, they start dancing and they talk about how he has to find a girl. I feel like he says maybe he’s kinda got his eye on somebody. She’s interested, but he’s like, are you jealous? And she’s like, no, why would I be jealous? And then they make out, and then he picks them up and then they go upstairs and fuck.

Todd: Yeah, that was a bit of a shocker to me. But then, but then they come outside the house and, uh, they show that the window in the bedroom is kind of glowing and so it softens a little bit by, you kind of realize, all right, these are just not normal people anyway, like 

Craig: thriving humans. 

Todd: So who knows exactly what this mother son relationship is all about.


Craig: I feel like they made a bold choice to just go there. Like, it’s pretty bold. It’s an incestuous mother and son, and they don’t pull any punches about that from the very beginning. Well, they would 

Todd: rub it in your face. 

Craig: Yeah, they rub 

Todd: it in your face. They have like these love making seeds like that are just like, we’re the, you know, the classic camera pans from the dresser down to the.

Floor where the, you know, their clothes on the dresser and clothes on the floor, like, like they were tearing their clothes off as they were coming through and couldn’t put them away. And it’s there in your face though time. 

Craig: Well, that’s the thing. I, you know, I didn’t even really remember that and maybe I used to watch this on TV and so I don’t, maybe they cut it, I don’t know.

But I remember, you know, the first part, it’s not even implied. I mean, it’s in your face. He picks her up, they go up to the bedroom and close the door, but there’s not a scene. But there is. Like literally a mother son sex scene later in the movie. And, and I think that that’s really bold, but at the same time, it’s not like, it doesn’t make sense.

I mean, these are not humans. I’m not even exactly sure what they’re supposed to be. Monsters, demons. I don’t know. But they are also clearly feline in nature. And as far as I know now, I’m no animal scientist or anything, but I feel like most, most animals are kind of a love the one you’re with breed, you know what I mean?

Like they’re, they’re not particularly concerned about familial relationships, but. It’s, it’s odd, but at the same time, it establishes that this mother and son are close and that I think it’s important to establish that. 

Todd: Oh, it is. 

Craig: But anyway, 

Todd: there’s that. It’s very Stephen King. He likes to do this kind of thing.

Right. Shock you a little bit. I really liked, we did it. I liked what came after this, where they camera pans down across this very classic theater. And by classic theater, I mean like that theater that we had in the nineties and eighties. There was a bit of a hold over from the 70s and sixties that had redecorated in a while.

We come into Tanya who is a young girl, and at first I just assumed these were older people, and then you realize they’re all high school students being played by older actors dancing, uh, with her. Swiffer type mop sweeper thing in there and it went on for so long. That was just a little strange. 

Craig: It’s cute.

It’s, it’s interesting that she’s dancing to all these like she’s like dancing to do you love me. To me 

Todd: what that moment and with the song that we had earlier, and that being played on a 45 record player 

Craig: for a few 

Todd: minutes, I actually thought maybe this was a period movie, like I was trying to figure the era, especially in that classic movie theater, but then you realize, no, it’s just a, there’s just all this stuff being thrown in there.

But I think one of my biggest problems with the movie. Was with the editing and I felt like maybe a lot of what a lot of the badness of the performances and here could have been cleaned up by that. And. I feel like the first half of the movie room moves really too slowly for the simple story that it is.

Craig: I agree. And 

Todd: all this stuff at the beginning doesn’t help it. I mean, I think they’re trying to set a tone, but 

Craig: everything is just a little too 

Todd: long. Every scene is just a little too long. Almost every shot, especially in the conversations between. Between two people, everything could have been tightened up a bit.

And this is kind of the first example of that is just this really long scene of her dancing. 

Craig: Yeah. I mean, it is cute, but it does go on for quite awhile. And then, uh, Charles. Shows up. Oh, by the way, Tanya’s played by, again, I’m going to mispronounce her name, probably match an AMEC who again, is still working.

She’s incredibly beautiful and very unique. Uh, I think in her look, and she currently is on Riverdale. She was in twin peaks. Uh, she did this tent on AHS. So she’s been around forever and is still working. But, uh, Charles comes in and they flirt and it’s very innocent flirting, and they’re both very attractive, very charming, both of them, very charming.

They have really what boils down to a very cute meet. Cute. Like 

Todd: it is cute. 

Craig: It’s very innocent. And in fact, you know, I feel like she is begging. To be asked out, but he doesn’t at this point. And he later tells his mom, because when he goes home, she’s like, did you ask her out? And he’s like, what kind of girl would go out with a guy that she just met?

And the mom keeps asking him over and over and over again. Is she nice? Is she nice? Is she nice? You know, it’s, it’s like they are. Like virtue is important to them. You know, like she really has to be not just a Virgin, but a good girl, 

Todd: a nice Virgin. Right. 

Craig: That’s it. You know, he buys his pop. Well, he doesn’t buy it.

She gives it to him cause she’s thirsty. And yes, she’s super nice. And so that’s it. And then her dad picks her up. He reminds her during this, that. Cause he, he calls her by name and she’s like, how do you know my name is like, well, we’re an English class together. So the next day we see them in English class and he’s reading a creative short story that he’s written that literally lays out exactly what they are doing.

The title of this story, I think is sleepwalkers and it tells the story of what the sleepwalkers are and how his 

Todd: kid and his mom. 

Craig: Yeah, this kid and his mom, and they’re outcasts and they’re always being run out of town and blah, blah, blah. And Tonya really likes the story. Um, the English teacher’s name is mr Fallows and these plain played by Glenn Shaddox, who sadly has passed away, but he will always be Osho to me from Beetlejuice.

Todd: Exactly 

Craig: the teacher and he’s kind of a jerk. 

Todd: This whole scene was really interesting because, uh, this movie really plays things up a lot. It really heightens the drama and almost every bit of it is a little too overdramatic and a little too cliche and that, you know, that’s another, okay. I’m just kind of going through the list of the problems I have with the movie is really early on.

We get honed in, um, without any question as to this teachers. Extreme interest in this boy. You know, he says that, Oh, well, that was a very nice story, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then there’s this odd fade out as time passes and all the kids have left, and the teacher’s still standing there and he looks through the window outside and he sees, uh, Charles, you know, chatting and smiling with some other people, and he has kind of a.

It’s a serious look on his face. And I thought, that’s intriguing. I wonder why he’s so interested in him. 

Craig: I know why. 

Todd: And it wasn’t the first thing that came to my mind, to be honest. But, uh, 

Craig: we didn’t find out later. He seems very, he seems very sinister actually, initially. And ultimately he is, 

Todd: I always heard his name is mr Fallis.

Through this whole thing. I guess it’s Mr. Fowler. 

Craig: I’ve 

Todd: heard every single time. I was like, is he really mr Falice? I’m like, 

Craig: that’s hilarious. I guess that Charles gives Tanya ride home that day and she takes him up to her room, which I thought was very bold of her. So for the first time they’ve met and it’s, it’s a hilarious scene cause it’s just flirty and cute and like he is acting very innocent, but for some reason she has bras and panties.

Strewn everywhere were like, what is happening? Like did her underwear drawer explode?

Todd: I think as a teenage boy, this is how I imagined the women’s rooms were. Um, but in this movie, it, it’s really silly cause it creates these silly little situations where he’s looking somewhere and she’s horrified that his hand is right next to a pair of panties and she’s . Quick, quickly trying to usher him away to look at something else before he notices.

Craig: The other thing that I noticed too, that that part that you’re talking specifically about where they’re like right under his nose, they are like these tiny. Lace panties. I grew up with this despair. Girls don’t just wear those on a daily basis. Those are like special occasion panties, so they don’t lose it, but whatever.

It’s cute. It’s a funny little joke or whatever. You know? They talk and they all know kiss, but they’re interrupted by her mother who is played by Cindy Pickett. Now, her parents. Mr and Mrs. Robinson are played by Lyman ward and Cindy Pickett, who were the exact same pair. They’re Ferris Bueller’s parents.

Oh. And he looks the same. She looks different because in that movie she had a really short blonde haircut. And in this, she has a much more suburban, like shoulder length, brunette haircut, but they’re the same people. They’re Ferris Bueller’s parents, and I think that they met on Ferris. Dealer and then they got married and then they were in this movie in 1992 and then also in 1992 they got divorced.

I hope it didn’t happen because of this movie. Maybe

Todd: I’ll never be in such a shitty project with you ever again. 

Craig: It was cute to see them back together again and they’re there. They’re sweet. 

Todd: I was, I thought it was interesting. As he’s coming down the stairs, she comes up, the mother comes up and kind of interrupts them and they make plans to go to a Homeland, which is a cemetery in town 

Craig: right.

Todd: Yes. A little famous for being a make-out point gets kind of alluded to when she’s talking with her friends and when she mentions it to her mom, but he kind of covers for it because as they’re coming down the stairs, PCs that her family has these grave rubbings put up on the wall. Now, that was so weird to me because I thought my family was the only family the decorated it’s house with gravestone rubbings.

Craig: Oh, I didn’t know that. 

Todd: Yeah. I know. We’re like the Adams family. Absolutely not. But my parents, when they were living in Europe before I was born, used to actually do this, go out to like graveyards and find these really cool or famous gravestones or whatever. Put a giant piece of paper over it and rub it with charcoal or, or, or something.

Uh, and get the imprint. And we literally have these framed. On our walls as I was growing up, like in the hallway, like they had it there and I just could not believe 

Craig: that that was in this movie. Well, I’m impressed with your parents because they looked really cool. I mean, it was kind of out of keeping, like, they seem like such a normal suburbanite family to have something like that, but they actually looked really cool and yeah.

He makes a connection with the mom. I feel like he’s just a charmer, you know, like he knows how to charm people. And, uh, so he talks to her about the grave. RUP rubbings and, uh, I, I think he kind of wins her over, which is smart of him. Oh. Then there’s a scene when he, after he leaves, he’s driving down the street and the teacher, the English teacher, mr Fallows, pulls him over like he’s some kind of cop or something.

Like he comes, he comes up behind him and his little like Volkswagen bug and is like honking his horn and pulls him over and he tells him. I know you’re not who you say you are. I looked at your transcripts and they’re fake. Charles is like, no, you’re mistaken. He’s like, no, I didn’t. Well, this is blackmail, mr Fallis.

I think he picked the wrong guy. This car is the only expensive thing I’ve gotten. And, uh, kind of sentimental about it. I don’t think I’ve ever.

Degeneration is so mercenary. Charles money, this money that or money is not the only medium of exchange and he straight up goes like to grab him in the junk. Yeah. And, and Charles grabs and rips it clean off like 

Todd: this possible 

Craig: to clean off at the wrist and hands it back to him. And so then also takes off running.

And he’s like, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Um, but of course Charles catches him and kills him. Yeah. And then Charles gets back on the road and gets followed by an actual cop. And this is my favorite part of the movie, not this part specifically, but these characters, and I say character because you’ve got.

Officer, Andy Simpson, who is this really charming, funny guy whose partner is a cat. Clovis is my favorite character in the whole movie.

Love this. Cute, charming officer and his cat and like, it’s not at this point, it comes later. But Andy, the, the, the cop just like sing, like makes up songs and sings them in his car and they’re dirty. And the hilarious. Oh gosh. Hey glove. It’s a glove. It’s what’s up. You catching a nap.

They’re going to Johnny with his Becker in his, and he’s a one ball man and he’s off to the Rudy yo man live now. The man rag I’m on, I can drink. He gets your right foot.  get off the stage. Fucking jerk. Your new boss

Todd: just kills 

Craig: me. Okay. So the cop starts chasing him and you know, as cliche as this is about to sound, it’s very cat and mouse because Charles is playing with them like. He wants to be chased, like he’s enjoying the chase at times. He even slows down to let the officer catch up with them before he then takes off again.

And there’s a funny thing where like, he almost runs down a bunch of school kids on a crosswalk, like it’s super cliche, but it’s kind of funny. And at one point, the cop car pulls right up next to Charles’s car. So like there’s side-by-side. Charles flips off the officer and he’s smiling like he’s having a great time, but then the cat pops up and Charles freaks out and goes through a Michael Jackson black or white like face transformation.

Todd: Yes. It’s hilarious. I’m sure at the time, really weird. At the time it probably seemed very cool cause I remembered that video, that video was probably the same year or something. It’s, he just goes from dog to cat to alien to something else, to something else, to his face. Again, all within the span of like three seconds.

And it just looks so dated. 

Craig: It really, really does. But of course, that freaks Andy out and, and eventually, um, now that he’s freaked out by the cat, Charles, real quick, after like he’s gone around a bend or something, pulls over to the side of the road and he has to like concentrate, but he makes himself and the car disappear.

I have no idea what the extent of these people’s powers are. They can do things. He makes himself and the car disappear. The cop pulls up and stops right there next to him, but of course he can’t see him, but Clovis can. Oh my gosh. And Charles talking the cat, he’s like, stop looking at me. You cat.

That was 

Todd: my second favorite line in the whole movie. 

Craig: The good one. It is a good one. But anyway, the cop goes off and he expresses his concern to his fellow cops who kind of just blow him off or whatever. But Charles goes home and Mary greets him and it’s like. She’s like, did you get it? And he’s like, no, I didn’t get it yet.

And then she proceeds to smack the shit out of him for awhile before realizing that he’s got a cut on his hand. Did you know where that came from? 

Todd: I have no clue. Was it supposed to have come from his tuffle with the, with the other guy? I don’t know. Did he scream his hand on a tree as he was running through the woods?

But I love it how her house is filled 

Craig: with candles. 

Todd: When he comes home, almost every scene in this movie is just either cheesy or campy or borderline stupid. Uh, it’s trying too hard in some points, even when it’s a little charming and cute. It’s, it seems so cliche and a little awkward. And I think at a lot of that has to do with the writing as well.

Like when she, when, when he comes home and she greets him, she’s like, did you get it? You didn’t get it is this. Then after she apologizes to him, they go up and we get 

Craig: this stuff. Well, you know, after she sees the cut on his hand, then she just immediately turns and she’s the concern, mother again, and, and he becomes, you know, like the crying son and he says, it’s already starting again, meaning that people are already starting to catch on.

They’re going to have to leave. And he says. We haven’t even seen another sleepwalker and she adamantly says, we are not the last. I can feel the others, which never pans out to anything. I kind of hope no, and find out there there were others around, but it does do something to kind of highlight the desperate nature of their situation.

You know, if, if they really are kind of the last ones. You know, it’s a rough gig for them, I guess, 

Todd: and they’re also trying to play up this other angle because I think it’s during the scene too, when she says to him, you cannot be in love with this girl, Charles. As soon as she said that, I’m thinking. He’s barely even seen her.

Craig: Like he met her at the theater. 

Todd: He saw her once at school and asked and drove her home. Then they, I was thinking, did they already go to the cemetery? Did I miss that scene? No, they didn’t even go to the cemetery. So like. It. That aspect of the story seems really shoehorned in here. This mother’s jealousy, not, not her jealousy.

Her jealousy was from the very beginning, just knowing that he’s going out with some girl, but this idea that he is getting conflicted and falling in love with her just doesn’t ring true based on what we’ve seen. You know, in the last 30 minutes, 

Craig: it doesn’t ring true as far as storytelling goes, but he plays it.

He knows like I do believe that the way that he looks at her and carving the tea into his arm and stuff, like I feel like we are supposed to get the impression that he is. Oh, you think, I think so. Then that all changes. It changes very quickly. So 

Todd: for that to be true, you know, I saw him as a charmer up to this point, just, he was just slick Willie.

Like the other movie we did, like the guest remember that, like just this guy just knows what to say in all the right looks. And he’s one of these guys, 

Craig: and this all kind of plays out when they get to the cemetery, which they’re about to. But the mom tells Charles. The tomorrow you’ll go out with her, you’ll feed, you’ll come back, we’ll feed me and we’ll leave.

Like we’re going to get outta here. And then you get the, not incredibly graphic, but still disturbing mother son sex scene, which I feel like was done solely to show us because they pan over from the actual actors. Engaged in the sex scene. It pans over to the mirror, which shows the reflections, I guess, of their true selves, like their demons and their demon selves look really silly.

I mean, it’s people in big rubber suits terrible. It’s not good. I mean, if I wore that for Halloween, I’d be really proud of myself. But in a movie, read that. Whoa. 

Todd: No, I read actually that the, uh, the guy who worked on the cat monster suit, it wasn’t actually his, his original design. There were time constraints.

Uh, and so he, they had a more like articulated version of it and they couldn’t use it. So he ended up using these rubber suits, which was, Oh man, somebody should’ve thrown another million at this or something. At least upgraded those suits, especially by the end, by the time we get to the final sequence when those suits are a major character.

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: It’s a really bad way to end the movie, to be honest. 

Craig: Yeah, they’re not great. Anyway, then Tanya comes over the next day, she interacts with the mother, blah, blah, whatever, but they, they go to the cemetery. 

Todd: Now wait just a second, Craig. So we get that scene with them in the mirror so we can see that the mirror reflects their true selves, and I thought, is this just a device or are they telling us that the mirror always reflects their true selves?

Then during the scene where the daughter comes over to the house and the mother invites her in before they have these giant mirrors. In their living room, which the mom is parading the girl through and the son is looking with horror at the fact that the mother’s true self is in the mirror, and it’s kind of a reverse of his, of the girl scene with the boy in her bedroom where now he’s trying to distract her so that she doesn’t see his mother’s reflection in the mirror.

Craig: Even think about that. Yeah, that is an interesting parallel, 

Todd: but this whole thing like. So this guy, how do these people go on about at school, out and about with all these mirrors and all these reflections around them and not be seen? How can they be so cavalier around all of this? If the mirror is always showing their reflection, their mirrors on their card, that don’t seem to actually do it.

There’s, I mean, this seems like it would be a major point, you know, like a vampire kind of thing, uh, where, you know, you don’t see the reflection, but it only comes up in a couple of different scenes. 

Craig: Yeah, I hadn’t, I, I didn’t think that much about it. Well, him especially because he’s out living his life.

It doesn’t seem like the mom ever house ever. She’s just stands there looking out the windows. Like she’s literally standing around the house looking out the window all the time. 

Todd: As cats slowly come up to that, like it becomes a CAD magnet. 

Craig: Right. Like the cat army is for me. Right. That’s 

Todd: right. 

Craig: Which becomes significant.

So they go to the cemetery and there’s such a stupid line. 

Todd: Oh, I love this line. This is my favorite line. 

Craig: He’s got, you know, his paper and his chalk and stuff, and he’s like, I’d better get these out of the way right off your mother’s gonna want to know some rubbing went on out here. Me too, Charles.

It was the best. 

Todd: Oh God. He’s 

Craig: the horniest Virgin I’ve ever seen on film. She is so horny. She cannot wait to get his pants off. 

Todd: She’s ready to give it up right here. Right now for this guy without, Oh 

Craig: yeah, she is. For sure. And she’s like taking his pictures and then for some unexplainable reason, we see a shot of the car where they parked it and he, he turned it into a different car to avoid the cop.

But now it just turns back inexplicably, which is convenient because then the cop comes and sees it. But anyway, they like tussle around on the ground and they kiss and she’s totally putting the moves on him like she is DTF. Then he. Starts to suck the life force out of her and she gets a little bit uncomfortable.

And then, you know, like up until this moment, like he was giving her, like when she wasn’t even paying attention to him, he was looking at her longingly. It seemed like he was totally into her. And then as soon as this happens, I mean, maybe it’s just like the taste of the life force like broth. Back his beastly urges or something, I don’t know.

But from this point on, not only does he get very aggressive with her, but he also gets like all, he’s a standup comedian. All 

Todd: of a sudden it’s really, it’s bad. Well, it’s a change in his character. 

Craig: It’s the thing that bothers me the most about the movie. I can be down with just about everything else, but all of a sudden he’s cracking one liners all over the place and it’s just stupid.

But I’m proud of her. Because she fights, you know, she scratches his face and you know, what he’s trying to do and what he’s trying to do is out of the realm of reality. So it makes it a little bit less uncomfortable, but it’s very reminiscent of a rape scene. I mean, that’s what it feels like. Yeah. 

Todd: With blood.

Craig: He, you know, he’s holding her down. And at one point, like she, she grabs a corkscrew and she stabs him in the eyeball with it. And, um, he starts bleeding in a screaming and an executive. Look at his shirt. My mother’s gonna kill me. It’s ridiculous. And the other ridiculous thing, like he turns like his face turns into like demon cat face and she sees it, and then she knocks him out with her camera and she starts to run away.

But then she turns back and is like, Charles. He okay, like, are you serious? Like this guy just tried to fricking kill you, like leave. Who cares if he’s okay? Hopefully he’s not. But then Andy and Clovis show up and conveniently, as soon as they show up because they see the car, um, Tonya comes running out.

She’s like, come on, come on. We got to go. And he’s like, no, no, it’s okay. I’ll take care of it. And from behind, Charles stabs him in the ear with a pencil and it like, and then not only that, but then he falls to the ground and lands on the pencil, which goes further into his head. And then Charles is. Still trying to get Tanya, but somehow with this pencil embedded deep into his brain, Andy still gets up and shoots Charles in the back.

Now it seems like Charles is virtually invincible. Yeah. None of this stuff is really bothering him at all, but he grabs Andy’s gun and shoots Andy in the gut and he’s dead. But then Clovis is pissed. And so. Clovis jumps out of the car and attacks Charles, and that clearly hurts him. And like the cat is like on his face, like just like clung to his face and like smoke is coming out of his wounds and stuff.

And so eventually, once he gets Clovis off of his face, Charles. Leaves. And so Tanya is there alone in the cop car, and she gets on the CB and is calling for help and stuff. And, uh, eventually help comes. But I, it’s such an inconsequential part of the movie, but I found it. Actually really sad that after Charles leaves, Clovis goes over and crawls up on Andy’s chest and it was just me out.

Todd: I thought this was so corny. I’m so sorry. I saw the same scene and I thought, of course you’re going to do this in this scene. And I thought it was corny. 

Craig: You’re not a pet person. 

Todd: I am a cat 

Craig: person. Oh, that’s true. You are a cabs. 

Todd: I’m a cat person. 

Craig: I thought it was because they had such a cute relationship.

They were like, they were like their own little buddy cop movie and this is. Wow. 

Todd: Somehow this, this cut through the camp for you. I’m really, I’m really kind of assigned myself here. I mean, I’m watching this movie this whole time, and even the relationship between these two guys, I’m like, this is so silly.

The writing was so goofy. The stuff, even the songs he was seeing in the car were kind of dumb. I don’t know, man. Okay. Sorry. 

Craig: They were dumb. If you’re driving or if you’re driving around in a car all day with your cat, what are you going to do? I would be goofy songs at some point, like maybe not all the time, but okay, so this is where I thought.

The movie started to get really good, first of all. Okay, so the cops and forensics and everybody shows up at the scene, and this is where we have like a bazillion cameos. Stephen King is like the cemetery overseer, Tobe Hooper is there. Clive Barker is there. 

Todd: John land is 

Craig: all just making these tiny one-line cameos, but even just seeing Stephen King and Clive Barker in frame together, I’m like.


Todd: crazy. Well, the scene only really exists to do this. I mean, 

Craig: it’s 

Todd: purely and clearly they’re just all chewing the scenery. And I thought it was rather awkward, especially this like three minute shot of Stephen King going from one person to another saying the same thing before he comes to the sheriff who says, get away from me, and then boom, he’s gone.

Craig: And again, I loved Stephen King and he cameos in his movies a lot, and he’s awful. He’s horrible,

but you forgive it because he’s doing Kagan, you know that he’s just there for fun or whatever, and then it’s fine. 

Todd: He’s the Stanley of, of the, of his movies. 

Craig: Yeah. Oh, totally. Okay. Zone. Right, exactly. And they take photographs of. Her bruises cause she is beat up. But getting the pictures taken of her reminds her, she tells them, I took pictures of him, you know, develop the film or whatever.

Okay. So, uh, they take her home and her parents are concerned as they would be, and she takes a bath and she has, you know, she imagines him showing up and he’s not really there. Meanwhile, Charles, he’s in terrible shape too. And Mary is. You know, just beside herself with concern, trying to take care of him.

She says, you know, they’re going to be here soon, meaning the cops. And he’s like, it’s okay. We can leave. I’ll be okay. And she says, no, you’re too weak. So she makes them, she makes them both invisible and she makes the car invisible. And the cops do show up and out of nowhere. Ron Perlman. Yeah. 

Todd: Yeah. Ron Perlman 

Craig: as one of the cops, like, where is he?


Todd: are you doing? Like I couldn’t understand this either. Like first was the shock, like, Oh my God, Ron Perlman, and then I’m like, why are we seeing another cop? We’re 20 minutes away from the end of the movie and say, this other cop suddenly has this huge role. Uh, for the last 20 minutes, he steals it, you know, he’s basically upstaging everybody.

Craig: Yeah, he’s a commanding personality. But anyway, okay. So they come in, they don’t find anybody, cause they’re invisibles they leave, but they leave people. Two cops on guard. Mary kills the guard cops by sneaking up behind them invisibly. And then she goes to Tanya’s house and just knocked on the door and she’s like, Oh, hello.

I’m mrs . Whatever, and I’m Charles his mom, and he couldn’t make it. And the dad’s like, uh, leave. So this part surprised me because she breaks like a crystal vase over his head and like his face gets totally torn up. I don’t know if it’s supposed to be suggested that he’s dead. I don’t believe that that would have killed him.

And I don’t believe, I don’t want to believe that it would have killed them because I don’t want Tanya’s parents to die. She’s been through enough and they’re nice. Um, and I was watching very carefully. There’s one point when the mother comes down and she runs to her husband and he’s clearly still breathing, so in my mind he’s okay.


Todd: That makes you happy. 

Craig: Then Mary talks talks too. I mean, it’s all very tense, but she’s talking to the mother and. She’s like, your daughter almost killed my son. And the mom’s like, good, I wish he did. I wish you were both dead. And Mary grabs her arm, breaks her arm, and then throws her out the way. 

Todd: Now, 

Craig: I couldn’t believe how brutal this was getting with these.

Nice. Sweet errands. It’s true. And then she stabs the cop in the back with a corn cob.

Todd: You got it. Eat your vegetables before. What is her line item 

Craig: vegetables before dessert. It’s so 

Todd: dumb. 

Craig: Just really dough, and then Tanya comes down and she’s concerned about her parents. I don’t even think she’s sees Mary at first. Then when she does, she freaks out, but married is knocks her out and then grabs her by the hair and starts dragging her outside.

Meanwhile, like the whole police force has shown up, and Ron Perlman. Approaches Mary and puts his hand in her face and she just grabs it and bites all his fingers off and then breaks his arm and knocks him down and takes his gun. And then dirty Harry’s style take and shoots, I guess the gas tanks of.

Two cop cars each with one shot blows up both of these cars in this little suburban neighborhood and a Hopson, one of the other cop cars with Tanya and takes her back home to Charles. Now when they get there, she throws ma or she throws Tanya down next to Charles and Charles is dead. Like he’s not moving.

He doesn’t seem to be breathing. Um, but she’s like, no, he’s not dead. He’s not dead. You know what? I bet he’d like, I bet he’d like to dance with you. So she magically makes the record player turn on and sleepwalk starts playing again. It seemed. To me based on her performance that she like through her will and a man aided him and at this point he’s discussing like his face is like half demon and it’s, his eyeballs are bleeding like is gross.

And she makes Tanya dance with them. And then surprise, surprise. Apparently he’s not dead because he wakes up and she’s like, no, Charles, do it now. And he’s starts to suck out the life force. But then what the sheriff shows up. 

Todd: I don’t even know, man. I, this whole ending was such a mess. I’m like, I couldn’t pay attention.

I had to rewind it twice just to, just to catch it all 

Craig: hiding. Well, first of all, again, again, Tonya is a bad ass. Like as soon as he wakes up and tries to start sucking her life for her, she takes both her thumbs and gouges out his eyes. Depends class. I am impressed with her and Clovis. That’s who shows up.

Clovis. The cop does show up and he sees all these cats around and he looks down at one cat and he’s like, Clovis. And then Clovis Sprint’s upstairs breakthrough window come downstairs and attacks Mary and then multiple cats start attacking him and the sheriff bursts in and he shoots Mary. But that doesn’t seem to bother her.

She transforms fully into her demon self. And she tries to get Tanya, but the sheriff throws one of those bear traps on her head, but again, that doesn’t seem to bother her very much. She picks him up and throws him on the picket fence, so he’s out of commission now, and then she goes after Tonya again, but finally fulfilling their destiny.

The cat army makes their move

and the entire cat army attacks Mary, and they’re like, she’s just like dressed in cats at this point. And, uh, she bursts into flames and she’s. Burning and like flailing around. She falls to the ground, but then Tanya is in the cop car. Mary back in her human form jumps up on the windshield. It is like you killed my son, you killed.

And Tanya puts the car in her various moves away and Mary. Falls back onto the ground and it’s just burning. And Clovis jumps into the car and scares her, but she picks him up and she hugs him and Enya plays and the cat is first and that’s the end. 

Todd: And she says, looks like it’s just you and me now, Clovis.

Oh God. Oh God, the writing is so bad in this movie. How many of these lines are we going to get? That’s what was fun about it. I mean. Making fun of this movie was the fun I dreamily campy, horrible writing. So many great people involved in such a bad production. And then at the end, you know, the rubber suits attack each other.

And I mean, it’s just, it’s nothing. Nothing quite right about this film at all. I didn’t find it quite as these little moments quite as touching as you did. You’re, you’re opening up aspects of the movie, like. Oh, I guess that’s what they were trying for there. Looks like a lice. They reached Craig. 

Craig: I swear the first half of the movie I felt was slow isn’t the right word cause it’s not like nothing was happening.

It just wasn’t particularly exciting or engaging. 

Todd: Oh, it was slow. It was slow. 

Craig: Yeah. I was really worried that, Oh man, you know, I didn’t remember this movie. I, Todd’s not going to like it. It’s going to be lame, blah, blah, blah. But then the second half I really got into it. You know, it was, the car’s works.

Bloating and people were getting thrown through windows and 

Todd: I got into it because it was going so far off the rails. I mean, I’ve been kind of kind of bored for the last, for the first 50 minutes that the, at least the last 50 minutes, even though it was nonsensical and hilarious and totally campy, at least it was more exciting.

Yeah, for sure. 

Craig: Yeah, and campy is a good word for it. And I like camp. I just do. And I thought. Ultimately that this was a fun movie to watch. Um, it took a little while to get going, but I feel like it paid off in the end, and I had fun with it and it reminded me why I liked it so much. It is campy, even the goofy stuff, like Charles’s one-liners in the cemetery, like it’s so stupid, but.

I mean, if you just roll with it, like it’s kind of funny I, and the way that it’s delivered, I felt like it wasn’t taking itself too seriously. Um, they knew what they were doing. 

Todd: Well, it’s like we said though, at that point, the tonal shift was so strong. I wondered for a moment like, is this actually supposed to be a horror comedy?

And they’re just now getting around 

Craig: to it. Uh, 

Todd: but I don’t really feel like it keeps that up throughout. So it, it’s hard for me to give them too much credit for that. 

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. It is a little uneven, tonally. I will say that. Um, is it a serious scary movie? Is it a comedy? Is it supposed to be some like deep edible thing that I don’t get?

I don’t know. But yeah, I liked it. And when my sister’s in town for the holidays, if we’ve got a spare minute, I may say, Hey, you wanna watch this. Funny, and it’s simple and it’s a no brainer. And I liked that kind of stuff. Every once in a while. Just goofy entertainment for entertainment’s sake and the, the effects very much dated.

But everything else is competent. The acting well, except for maybe some of the 

Todd: writing, 

Craig: the acting is competent that I felt like this and send them photography. It wasn’t anything special, but it was, it didn’t look bad and I felt like it was. Competent. I even thought that it’s a unique idea. I know that there are, there is that movie like cat people or the cat people or something like that.

I’ve never seen it. Um, so I know that this isn’t a hundred percent unique, but it’s, and it’s not entirely different from either. Like a vampire movie or a werewolf movie. So it’s not like it’s entirely unique, but I’ve never seen this particular kind of myth. Those explored on screen and it’s true. So it’s different.

I like when things. You know when people kind of go outside of the box and so for that reason I would recommend it, but I get it. It’s not a great movie. I get that. 

Todd: Well, if nothing else, it’s a fantastic display of a early nineties CGI morphing affect technology. I can’t say I would recommend it to anybody unless you’re looking to watch us so bad.

It’s good movie. If you’re looking to watch us so bad, it’s good movie. This is one of the best we’ve seen. It really is. And plus you get the added bonus of seeing so many famous people involved in it and all of these really cool cameo. So, you know, you throw all that together. It is a fun ride. It really is.

I mean, it’s, it’s enjoyable in that way, but don’t come to us thinking that you’re going to see this awesome, scary movie that’s gonna where you’re going to be so scared. You’re not distracted by the stupidity of it all. 

Craig: Oh yeah. No, I didn’t. I didn’t really think it was scary. I mean, there were some tense moments at the end.

But, uh, I didn’t think it was particularly scary, but any, ultimately, I, I’m glad that you didn’t feel like it was a waste of time or 

Todd: we’ve seen too much shit for that. 

Craig: I know we really had. And on that note, 

Todd: no more shit coming your way.

Craig: Thank you very much for joining us for another episode. The two guys, it had changed. Uh, like I said, one way or another. We’ve definitely got some more reviews coming your way. Of course, as always, if you enjoyed this podcast, we’d love to hear from you. If you want to drop us a note on Facebook or messenger on our web page, it’s always fun to hear from you and we try really hard to get back to you as often as we can and we love hearing your thoughts and your suggestions.

Uh, if you did like this episode, you can find all of our backups. So it’s all over the place on Google, play, Stitcher, iTunes on our website. Just Google two guys in a chainsaw podcast, you’ll find us. But until we meet again, I’m Craig and I’m Todd with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

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