Jack Frost (1997)

Episode 153, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd

Craig: and I’m Craig.

Todd: Happy Holidays everybody. We’re well into our month of December where we traditionally, and this year is no different, do horror movies that are Christmas themed or snow themed whatever we can find and this year we have 1 that is both this week this is Jack Frost from 1997 not to be confused with the Michael Keaton movie Jack Frost that also came out around this time If I remember correctly,

Craig: yeah the next year

Todd: This is the 1 that I think people like you and me It’s pretty unmistakable passing by this in the video store shelves. You had this cover with this evil looking snowman. And if I remember correctly, they, they went all out and they did 1 of these covers where if you turn it sideways a little bit, his mouth opens and closes. Did you get that?

Craig: That’s funny. I had forgot. I had totally forgotten about that until you just said it, but you’re absolutely right. Yes, they did.

Todd: Such a memorable cover for a movie that, at the time, just looking at this movie, I thought, oh, the cover didn’t sell it on me. You know, so lots of times we say the cover sold it and we watched it and usually it was crap. In this case, I looked at the cover and I was like, this movie is going to be total garbage because it looked like the kind of cover to a total garbage movie. And so I never picked it up. I thought it was clearly just 1 of these cash in on the Jack Frost movie by Michael Keaton. I don’t think it was. Not according to what we’re finding online anyway, it just so happened that these 2 movies came out close to each other. Whereas Michael Keaton turns into a snowman, In this movie we have a kind of child’s play angle where there is a serial killer who possesses snow. It becomes a killer snowman. And oh my gosh, I actually, I’m just going to lay it out on the line here I really enjoyed this movie

Craig: oh my god well then we’re gonna We’re gonna have some interesting conversation then because I did not.

Todd: Oh man, you guys are up for an interesting episode then. This was released on the 18th of November in 1997, right at the perfect time for Christmas, and it was directed by a guy named Michael Cooney who really hasn’t done much. And from what I read according to the makers of this movie, this was originally slated to be a $30 million big budget production directed by none other than Renny Harlan.

Craig: I know. Can you

Todd: believe that? This is Renny Harland like Die Hard 2, Cliffhanger, he did Nightmare on Elm Street part 4, that was kind of his big break into Hollywood. Can you imagine him directing this movie?

Craig: No, no I can’t imagine. I mean there would have been lots more explosions and I would have liked it much better. I’m sure

Todd: Well with more than 30 million dollars It probably would have come out a lot better what apparently happened according to the makers of this movie is that they didn’t get him on board probably Gina Davis talked him out of it

Craig: or something like that. Wisely.

Todd: The budget was slashed it was made into I don’t think it I’m not sure if it was direct to video or not but it was it was slashed like under a million bucks and the minute that the puppet for the I should say the figure the puppet whatever for the snowman was seen by the director he said okay we’re gonna have to just embrace the wacky goofiness of this and go all-out comedy and that’s exactly what they did. So what you have here is an extremely self-aware horror comedy that is playing it up for cheese and laughs and goofiness and to me that is what makes this movie shine. This is why I got on board with this movie from the very beginning. The beginning of this movie starts out panning across a Christmas tree where we get this title sequence. It’s extremely Christmassy with the names of everybody involved in the production written on ornaments. And there’s this cute voiceover with a little Obviously an adult trying to play a kid which is dumb asking their uncle Henry to tell them a Christmas story

Clip: No, it’s late Go to bed Santa will be here soon No, I want a story Alright alright, you want a happy story? What do you want a scary story? I want a happy scary story happy scary story

Todd: Not a question my uncle or aunt or parents really ever asked me when I asked for a Christmas story. Right. But he starts off.

Clip: Once upon a time, there lived a man by the name… By the name of Jack Frost. Jack Frost? That’s right. Like in the song, Jack Frost nipping at your nose. Only this guy did it for real. You know how regular folk get up in the morning, eat something, then hurry off to do whatever for the day? Well Jack would get up, eat something, Then hurry off and kill someone. Because that’s what he did. He killed people. He’d stick knives in their faces and cut out their tummies, then stamp on their heads till their brains got all runny. Uncle Henry, I don’t think this is such a- You wanted a story. You got a story.

Todd: You can tell right away that this is set up to be a goofy, self-aware horror comedy, just from this part in the beginning. And I think that’s important. Oh yeah. Because if you jump in here thinking that this movie is taking itself seriously, you’re going to hate it, I think. And well, you hated it. I loved it for that reason.

Craig: I don’t know, I mean that opening part I enjoyed, it was goofy and like you said it’s super Christmasy and so you know it definitely sets a tone like if you are looking for a Christmas horror movie. I mean, you’re… Frankly the rest of the movie’s not as Christmassy as the opening makes it out to be. I mean, yeah, it’s set in the winter and it’s with the snowman and stuff, But it’s more just kind of, you know, it, oh gosh, what can I say? I mean, like, it’s about snowmen. I mean, it’s set during Christmas, but it’s not really all that Christmassy. But yeah, that opening section with the happy, scary story thing, I thought that was cute. And you know, the big dork that I am, an English teacher, I know that actually it is traditional especially in England to tell scary stories on Christmas Eve. What? Yeah, it’s a tradition. I don’t know if they still do it, but it was a tradition. I mean, think about a Christmas Carol. A Christmas Carol is, you know, a ghost story. And so that’s not out of the realm of reality for me. But we don’t really do it in America.

Todd: Well, I have learned something new today, Craig. I have learned

Craig: something new. Well, I’m a teacher, Todd. It’s what I do.

Todd: Thank you for educating me at all. So yeah, I was kind of into

Craig: it at that point. But I have to be honest, going in, I knew what it was about. And so, you know, my expectations weren’t super high but just even from okay I’m just gonna spill the beans like you did this is billed as a horror comedy, and I found it neither scary nor funny. Oh wow! So, like, it just kinda didn’t work for me, but that’s all right. You know, a lot of times, when we watch these bad movies and then we talk about them for an hour, I end up appreciating them more than when I actually sat and watched it. So maybe that will happen again, but I’m not going to hold my breath.

Todd: The Uncle Henry even comes to a rhyme at the end of his story. It’s like he throws everything in the kitchen sink in here. And I can’t believe you don’t feel like this is a Christmas movie. I mean, granted, it’s not themed around like Christmas Eve or getting presents or Santa Claus or anything like that but it’s like every single opportunity that these people had to stick something Christmassy in the frame it’s in there. Even at 1 point when there is a guy crouched up on the kitchen floor backed up against the cabinets opening up a drawer trying to pull a knife out to defend himself. There is a tiny little snowman hanging from the drawer where the knives are. I mean, it’s like-

Craig: Yeah, yeah, you’re

Todd: right. Now, but they apparently shot this movie in like 70 degree weather, it’s also pretty obvious in many circumstances in here when the snow is fake. And when I say fake, like there is actually a scene that takes place behind a pine tree and you can see that the quote-unquote snow that is supposed to be on this exterior pine tree is totally cotton batting and that is the low-budget nature that we have of this movie. It’s unavoidable but I feel like they really embraced it. That’s what I liked and and again in the plot itself like as soon as that’s done our setup is these guys driving a truck through the blizzard and the truck on the side says, execution transfer vehicle. I don’t know if this is supposed to be Texas or what, but apparently this county or this state has so many executions that they have a special marked up transfer vehicle for. And at the same time, you know, and in the backseat, of course, of this is Jack Frost, the actual guys named the serial killer or whatever that the grandpa tells us about. And then who’s barreling down the other side of the highway in the opposite direction is this giant vehicle that’s like genetic testing institute. Like dangerous chemicals inside. And as soon as you see that, it’s like, okay, come on. You know, this is goofy. I mean, that’s practically like hot shots type humor right there. That’s, you know, that’s Mel Brooks kind of comedy. And the acting is goofy, and the lines, there’s tons of one-liners in this movie. Some of them work, most of them are growners, but I just thought that they were still kind of funny. There were some of them I still had to laugh out loud at, and we’ll get to those. Yeah. So they crash and the guy who plays a serial killer really plays it up like way over the top and he’s a pretty well-known actor. Well, not well known I should say but he gets around. He’s got like over 100 IMDB credits to his name. He does a lot of voiceover work. He does a lot of character work. And you have to say, this whole movie is filled with recognizable character actor faces.

Craig: Yeah, but recognizable in that way that like you know you maybe know them from somewhere but you can’t figure it out. I even looked, like you said, the guy who plays Jack Frost, and I do want to give him credit because he totally embraces it and plays it way over the top. He’s got the big crazy eyes and everything that he says and every reaction he has is twitchy and crazy and I liked him and I even liked him you know when he becomes the snowman but I feel like because the snowman is so limited in what it can do, it barely moves at all. And so he’s a little bit neutered as far as his performance is concerned. But he tries, and it is big and over the top and it’s not atypical at all. He’s the crazy guy in the back of the van being taken to be executed and he has banter with the guard in the back and he ends up like, you know, somehow overpowering the guard in the back and snapping his neck with his foot and stuff and like, fine, alright. And there’s some funny stuff like the the drivers of the truck are kind of taunting him and they’re driving through this big Blizzard and yeah, I mean you see it coming a mile away when the 2 Trucks are coming at 1 another and like the guy who’s driving the genetics truck, I don’t even know what that means. They’re just transferring around their genetic experiments. I don’t get it, but he’s pouring stuff in his thermos in this blizzard where they have 0 visibility. And then they crash. And it’s, it’s, it’s kind of, the crash is kind of funny because like in the aftermath, the driver of the prison truck is kind of sitting there and the other guy who is sitting next to him like his feet are just in the guy’s face like you Don’t even know if the other guy is dead or

Todd: Well the crash itself is such a low-budget crash. I mean, it’s so silly It’s almost like It’s almost like I was watching Batman from 1966, like all these cantilevered camera angles in the movie that skewed and went around, and this crash sequence, which is basically a view through the windshield, and it’s like they just spun the camera around. Yeah. And everybody is inside going, ah,

Craig: ah, ah. Yeah. Well, the whole movie’s like that. In the right context that could be really charming you know those old Batman shows you can still watch them and and they are goofy but they’re charming and I don’t know. This just didn’t do it for me, but that’s okay. All right, so anyway, they crash and the guy’s free. So the 1 guy who was driving the truck gets out and he sees the Jack Frost, the convict or whatever, who has somehow mysteriously been freed from his shackles. And he gives him like the crazy look. Yeah, not a scratch on him. Gives him the crazy look like, ha ha, I’m free now, you’re in trouble. But then I guess because of the impact, there was like some sort of fire and that was like heating up the tank that the genetics were in.

Todd: Now let’s be scientific and technical here, Craig. It’s a genetic acid. We learn about this later in the movie. Now it’s explained to us very precisely what this is. Yeah, it’s a giant tanker full of some genetic acid that is supposed to bond human DNA to inert objects in case there’s an apocalypse and we’re all dead. Somehow this is going to keep humanity going and that’s the invention of a scientist but it hasn’t been it hasn’t been experimented with yet.

Craig: Even on an amoeba.

Todd: Even on an amoeba, but they filled a giant tanker with it and drove it down the street in a blizzard.

Craig: Yeah, and so the tank gets really hot and it explodes, and as it’s exploding, Jack Frost looks at it and said this is gonna hurt like Just such silly one-liners. I love that I know and it’s finally I can forgive them from that actor because he’s so over-the-top I missed him throughout the rest of the movie. I mean, technically he’s there because he’s voicing the snowman, but he’s got these huge over the top facial expressions. You know, once, okay, so It explodes and it’s acid, so it just eats his body, like his body melts into the snow. It was very reminiscent of when Stripe, the Gremlin, in Gremlins melts at the very end. Very reminiscent of that, which I did enjoy. But then there’s a 3 second animated genetic cartoon. It’s hilarious. Yeah, it’s

Todd: kind of funny. It had a Christmas touch to it because it almost looked like little snowflakes and things inside floating around.

Craig: It did. It did. Yeah. And so, you know, as you already said, the premise is like his DNA melds with the snow DNA. And then just immediately, immediately, we don’t see it in full. Like we see that the surviving transporter or whatever sees it. But He turns into a snowman and he escapes. And then we jump to this family in a car who are driving around. It turns out to be this sheriff named Sam. And apparently Sam is the 1 who put Jack Frost away. And it was kind of on a fluke. He just stopped him on a traffic stop or something. Like apparently this guy had been terrorizing communities for years and years and years. But then he had gotten sloppy and had started putting body parts into the pies in the bakery that he worked in And yeah, so he it’s a little bit of everything

Todd: in there, you know Sweeney Todd.

Craig: I know But yeah Christmas they’re pecan pies

Todd: Favorite pies by the way.

Craig: Well good now. I know a teacher

Todd: for Christmas. Just without the body parts.

Craig: So anyway, like this sheriff, like just kind of randomly busted this guy on a traffic stop. The guy got found out and tried and sentenced, but he yelled at the cop after his sentencing, I’ll find some way to get you, I’ll be back. And apparently this has been haunting this guy ever since. And that’s what the movie ends up being, like Jack Frost, the killer snowman, comes back to exact his revenge, not only on this sheriff who put him away but on the entire community of Snowman Town.

Todd: Yes! It’s wonderful. What a crazy coincidence, huh? Now, I thought, now this sequence that where we do the flashback that’s between them, it had some really great transitions. There was some fine, fine filmmaking going on in this. And I have to say, as low budget as this movie is, we watch a lot of low budget movies that are really terrible and they’re shot poorly or, you know, they’re deficient in this way or this way and that. But sometimes we get across a low budget movie that even though you can tell it had limitations with money and with things with resources and things like that. Still the person behind the camera setting up the shots does a really good job and I felt like this movie was like that even though there’s a lot of goofy like the puppet oh my gosh this the snowman puppet is just hilariously bad and they know it it’s clear they know it and they don’t show it as much. And we get a lot of just like snowman hands like popping in and out of the screen or just you know close-ups on certain bits and pieces without actually seeing big full-scale, you know, far back views of what’s going on. But there is a lot of really cool camera work going on. This sequence really was quite impressive, the way it bounced back and forth between him and the family in the car and him reminiscing about his interactions with putting this guy away. It was good. I mean, there were points where like his head would turn and then the shot would be so perfectly lined up that when his head turns to the left, suddenly we’re back in the present, but his head’s kind of in the same position, and so it’s a little jarring, but it’s really cool. Anyway, there was a lot of that in this movie. As silly as it was, I felt like there was a lot of care that went

Craig: into this. Oh yeah, I’ll give you that. There were many times when I found myself thinking that the cinematography in this movie was way better than it should have been. It’s slightly above the made for sci-fi channel movies. And it kind of reminds me of those movies a little bit. And I am not against camp. And I’m not against bad movies. I really am not. This 1 just didn’t do it for me. I don’t want to be a big Debbie doubter about it.

Todd: I’m glad you liked it.

Craig: I hope other people like it. It just didn’t do it for me. But I will give it credit where credit is due. And it was shot pretty well. And you’re right, you know, they they made do with what they had. I read that, you know, they were supposed to initially have at least several of these snowman figures. And this snowman, you know, whatever it is, it’s a costume, a puppet, whatever you want to call it, it’s a good 6 feet tall probably, but it looks like something that you would see in the mall. And they were supposed to have, I guess, several of them that would have different looks or different functions or whatever, and they ended up only being able to afford 1. So they may do with what they had. And it’s funny, you know, in that silly, some guy in a felt costume is reaching his felt arm out from behind the camera to grab somebody. That’s funny. Yeah, it doesn’t even look like snow. No, not at all. And none of them do. Okay, so then we get into this town. Well, the sheriff sees the wreck and then They hear on the radio the next day that the guy never got to his execution, but he died in the car crash anyway so it’s no big deal and The sheriff has this family where he’s got this wife and this little kid who’s like a little he’s gonna be

Todd: a TV chef someday. He’s in his experimental phase.

Craig: He might be a little bit developmentally disabled. I’m not sure. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but I’m just saying. Yeah, and like they set up these cutesy family things where the kid is so annoying. He drove me crazy. And I think he was written that way. I think he was supposed to be annoying. The kid makes the dad like these disgusting, like this disgusting, I didn’t even know what it was supposed to be. Like at first I thought it was like hot chocolate, but it was like super, super thick. Turns out it’s like oatmeal, I guess, with like marshmallows in it and stuff. And he’s like, look daddy, I made you something special. And special’s a good word for that kid, by

Todd: the way.

Craig: It just looks gross. And the dad’s like, mmm. And he’s like, I’ll put some in a Ziploc bag and I’ll take it with me and so like he takes it or whatever. Yeah. And so they set up this family dynamic. The sheriff goes into town where apparently they have like this big snowman festival every year And the first thing we see is this big, big, it’s not big at all, this little setup they have in front of like the town hall, I guess.

Todd: I guess, or the church. It was hard to know.

Craig: Yeah, I couldn’t tell. So like in the square, like you know, the center of town, They’ve got all these different snowmen and they have this 1 snowman, I guess, that’s like covered up, that’s like the big secret snowman that they’re not going to reveal until the end. And like the guy who’s in charge of setting it up like makes a point of like shooing people away, Like no, you can’t peek, you can’t peek, you can’t see it until the snowman festival. And then they never show it. That made me so mad.

Todd: I thought there was gonna be some payoff there.

Craig: I know, I thought surely This is gonna be like the finale, like, you know, some big scary snowman is gonna come out. No, we just never see it. But anyway, these snowmen, like, it looks like they’re made out of felt that you got from the craft store. Like, they don’t look real at all.

Todd: And they’re not, I mean, this poor town of Snowman did. You’d imagine they’d have master snowman crafters here, but these snowmen just look like some four-year-old kid made them. None of these look show worthy, Let’s put it that way.

Craig: Well, except for the naked lady 1 that 1 kid is making, that 1 was

Todd: kind of impressive. A little bit. Well, it’s a cute setup because this is where we meet everybody in the town. They’re all submitting a snowman to this thing.

Craig: And so, Right, so we meet all these people and none of them end up being particularly important. It’s just kind of like, let’s introduce you to these people so that we can either kill them or there’ll be some small part later. But there’s this 1 family who seems to be in charge of like the snowmen, I don’t know. Jay and Sally, I think, are the parents. And then the kids, there’s Billy, and I say kids, but they’re teenagers. There’s Billy and there’s Jill, who’s played by Shannon Elizabeth, which is the only thing that I knew about this movie really going in, was that this was Shannon Elizabeth’s first movie And she’s supposed to be I guess kind of like the slutty girl in town I mean, that’s not really overemphasized, but that’s kind of like the suggestion or whatever. Yeah. Shannon Elizabeth is funny. She is a gorgeous girl. You know, most people were introduced to her in American Pie and she was so objectified in that movie, but in a hilarious way and she totally embraced it and was down with it. So I was excited to see her in this movie and she is awful, Awful. Awful.

Todd: Well, it is her first role, you know? She is playing it over the top. She’s camping it up a bit as well. Maybe she’s just taking her cue from everybody else, or maybe it was just her first role.

Craig: I don’t know. Still very pretty, but the acting is, her acting is just absolutely terrible. And Shana Elizabeth, it’s so funny, you know, like she did this movie and then she did American Pie and she did at least 1 of the sequels and she did some other horror movies, like she did 13 Ghosts, and then she just kind of disappeared. And it’s because she like just totally withdrew herself from Hollywood and she lives, I am pretty sure She lives in Africa now where she works on an animal sanctuary and that’s just like her life’s work. She’s just given up acting and that’s what she does. And good on you, Shannon Elizabeth.

Todd: Yeah. It’s so nice for her. I would love to make a couple nice, really big paychecks and then be able to go around and do whatever I want.

Craig: I know, right?

Todd: Yeah. I’m surprised more actors don’t do that, actually.

Craig: But anyway, okay, so they introduce that family and a couple of other people. And then eventually the snowman just shows up. Like it just shows up outside the sheriff’s house. And so the mom pulls up and sees it and I’m like, ooh, this is ominous. Like are they going to kill the sheriff’s wife right away? But no, she just goes inside. And the son is like, look, I made you something else special. She’s like, he’s like made these stupid gingerbread cookie snowmans.

Clip: Look, I made special. I just cleaned up after your special oats. But these are extra special. This kid! This kid’s horrible.

Craig: And she’s like, well It’s not as special as the snowman you made.” And he’s like, I didn’t make a snowman. And she’s like, well, there’s 1 outside, but it’s not finished. So here’s this bag of groceries that I just brought home from the grocery store that happens to be full of snowman supplies. So take it outside and give it a face or whatever.

Todd: What I like about this kid is he goes outside He puts on it’s a tall snowman and he puts up like a trash can or something on its on its face So that he can step up on top of it And then he whoops out like a snowman oven mitt or something to give himself a reference so that he can make the most basic snowman face you’ve ever seen. 2 big black eyes, a carrot in the middle, and then he draws on a mouth. But he needed this as a reference. And then as he’s doing this, the gang, you know, the kids come by and 1 of them is Billy, 1 of the kids we met earlier. Was he the 1 making those snowman with the boobs? I can’t

Craig: remember. No, that was Tommy. Oh. And I didn’t say that like that for emphasis. I was just looking at my notes Yeah, it was Tommy

Todd: that you’re trying

Craig: to know Billy stupid, okay Yeah, no billy is Billy is Shannon Elizabeth’s brother and son of the people who run the snowman show. And he’s a bully. Billy the bully. He has a

Todd: gang and they have old fashioned sleds. This is like right out of a Christmas story right here. So Billy turns around and this kid knocks the the snowman’s head off Which the snowman isn’t very happy about and in a sequence of things It’s a little confusing because you’re not exactly sure what’s going on or how it could even physically work

Craig: And it happens in 1 second. Mm-hmm like it’s so fast

Todd: Apparently somehow Billy ends up on the ground and his sled gets pulled over him over his neck by I guess the snowman arms that shoot out. We’re not quite sure and anyway all you see is his head flying through the air and so his sled has sliced off his head And you hear in the background I didn’t do it This is actually our second kill There was a kill earlier that we didn’t see, but there’s an old man, Harper, who the police had been called out to and they noticed that he was killed in his rocking chair sitting out in the front of his house and his neck had been snapped backwards and they were just talking about how odd that was. So in this case, of course, now everybody believes that the sheriff’s son has killed this kid, but the kid insists that it’s a snowman and everyone’s just kinda hanging out, they all just kinda decide to disperse. It’s just so weird.

Craig: It is weird. And like Billy’s mom and dad show up and like the dad is like super mad at Sheriff Sam or whatever. It’s like, your kid did this. He’s a psycho. And he’s yelling at him. And like the mom’s behind him like, oh, calm down. And then when the dad finally runs off, the mom’s like, he just has a temper sometimes. And then she goes off And then Shannon Elizabeth just kind of like, like stomps through the scene like she’s mad too. Like nobody’s particularly sad that Billy’s dead. Like they’re all just kind of inconvenienced and irritated.

Todd: Well, maybe it’s because of the kind of guy Billy was, you know, maybe We all kind of knew that at heart. Even the priest who’s in like every other scene for some odd reason just kind of stands and solemnly nods. And that’s actually what ends it out. But I also loved the music that was going on during the scene too. A really slow dirge of God rest ye merry gentlemen as they’re loading Billy’s body into the ambulance.

Craig: Yeah. And I will say the music is kind of fun throughout, because it’s all Christmas music. It’s super fun. Yeah. It’s all Christmas music. And sometimes it’s very traditional in the lighthearted scenes. But then in some of these darker scenes they have some interesting arrangements of these Christmas songs. I did enjoy that aspect of it.

Todd: Yeah I thought that was fun.

Craig: That first death, like you said it’s not really the first death scene but the first kill happens off camera, we don’t see it at all. It’s so ridiculous. Yeah. I feel like it was smart of them to do that because it set the tone. Like this isn’t going to be realistic in any way. Like an empty sled, and you know we’re talking about these sleds with the metal rails, but an empty sled is not going to cut somebody’s head off. That’s not going to happen. But in the context of this movie it is and so you just go with it and I thought that it was actually smart of them to establish, okay, this is a world where this can happen so strap in.

Todd: Just strap in because more of this BS is coming. But it’s funny, you know? And his head flies through the air like that also doesn’t make sense. Anyway, so Sam ends up looking through files on Frost because he’s really upset still about Frost. And I think there’s a part of him that just thinks that Frost may be behind this because he’s called this FBI agent who was called in at that crime scene at that scene earlier where the crash had been happening and it’s this old well this is a federal thing now so oh you know something mysterious is going on some cover-ups happening and so he’s called this a federal agent guy just for reassurance that Frost is dead agents like oh yeah Frost is dead for sure later on we see you know a cutaway of him chatting with a dude who I guess is a guy from his name is stone he’s the guy who invented this stuff who’s from this company I you know the genetics company started

Clip: so you keep saying We hadn’t even tested the acid on an amoeba, let alone a human cell. This is a disaster.

Todd: So he ends up in town by the time this happens, but I think it’s hilarious then the next scene, which is inside of the house of the family whose child was just killed. So dad is fuming, mom is still trying to reassure him, oh, everything’s going to be okay, blah, blah, blah. She’s like knitting a scarf. And then the sister comes pouting downstairs, just like I guess any other Friday night, like she’s gonna go out.

Clip: And where in God’s name you think you’re prowling off to like some lady of the night? Our grief isn’t good enough for you? You may not have care for your little brother. Jesus, Dad, I loved Billy! Do not be forsaking the Lord’s name in my house, little girl! The Lord’s just sucked this house long ago.

Todd: Oh, it’s just filled with great lines like this and she storms out. What happens to Dad? He goes outside to sit and get some wood for the fire. And there’s the creepy snowman we see. 8 feet in front of him as he’s sitting down on this thing. He doesn’t notice that the very same snowman that was outside the sheriff’s house where his son was killed, where the sheriff’s son insisted that the snowman did it, is now standing 6 feet in front of him. So when he starts hearing voices calling out to him and he looks up and goes, who is that? What’s that? He has to look left and right around this snowman to imagine that there’s a person out there. It’s so goofy. Anyway, he’s got an axe that is in the thing and this voice is taunting him and he sees the snowman move and so he tries to pick up the axe out of this thing but he’s slow at it. I really like the serial killer vibe. It was very child’s play-esque to me, Just the way he was taunting him. Taunts him, yeah. Yeah, get it.

Clip: Push your back into it. Come on, come on, you can do it. That’s my boy. Get it, get it, get it. Oh, very good.

Todd: Then, again, in a scene that you don’t really see, somehow he approaches the snowman with the axe, the snowman swipes the axe out of his hand, and instead of axing him, he shoves the handle of the axe down his throat. That was surprising. He is so unexpected. What’s going through their minds with this? Are they like, ooh, we’re subverting your expectations?

Craig: This scene is a perfect example of their budgetary restraints because especially early on in the movie, when the snowman is kind of revealing itself as being alive, we don’t see the snowman at all. We just get huge reaction shots from the people, which is kind of hilarious. Like it’s just, you know, a dead on shot on the people, like, what? Oh! Like. And then all of a sudden they’ve got an axe handled down their throats.

Todd: Out of nowhere. Yeah. And it’s cute. This is funny. There’s kind of running gags through this movie. And 1 of the running gags is every time there’s a person who’s been killed and the cops are there the very next scene and it’s it’s always this trio of them it’s the sheriff and his 2 buddies who sit there in a trio staring at it and it’s in the foreground you know it’s like that classic shot of who we discovered a body in the trunk or whatever but it’s repeated every single time they find someone there to hilarious degrees and then they have this little banter in this dialogue back and forth and there’s 1 of the cops I think his name is Chris who he just makes these jokes he these these one-liners most of them are growners but I thought that was funny some of the stuff he would say.

Craig: I don’t even remember. I just remember that the snowman eventually steals his car. But the snowman kills the dad, Billy’s dad, and then he also kills his mom and kills her with a bunch of Christmas ornaments. Like, he kind of strangles her with the lights from the tree and then, like, smashes her face in a box of Christmas ornaments. Really brutal. It is. And, like, the effects, I wouldn’t go so far as to say they’re good But they’re kind of fun like at least if you were to freeze the frame like They they look pretty good But I just feel like there were wasted opportunities, You know, just like with how they make a big deal of, no, you can’t see this 1 snowman in town, and then we never do. Like, just randomly in the very beginning when we’re being introduced to all these characters, This lady, Sally, says to her husband, when I was a little girl, I always wanted to be the angel on top of the Christmas tree. And the guy’s like, okay. Like, what is the point of that line if you’re not going to

Todd: impale her on the top of a Christmas tree, right? Right. It’s a good point.

Craig: But whatever, they don’t she’s dead. And then the they find, well, first of all, the guy, it’s Tommy’s dad, gosh, I don’t know what his name is, Paul. He’s like the guy who runs the hardware store or something and so he’s going around delivering assault to everybody. He sees them dead and he also sees the snowman and then he runs off and we don’t see him for a while. But the police find these dead folks and that’s when the, they’re not FBI apparently, but they kind of, that’s the ruse that’s great. I don’t know who they, I mean the 1 guy ends up being from the company or whatever, this genetic company. I don’t really know who the other guy is but it’s Agent Manners and Agent Stone and they show up in town And they’re very secretive but Stone, the 1 who knows about the genetics, clues us in that because they found this wet snow like footprint inside the house, he’s like, He’s like,

Clip: oh sweet Jesus, look at this. This thing is able to latently alter its elemental molecular structure. English, don’t English. It can freeze and unfreeze at will. It melted, came through the doggy door and refroze on the inside. You mean Jack came through the doggy door and refroze on the inside? What the hell have you let loose in this town?

Todd: And there’s some neat shots because of this, you know, like when he’s probing the the water spot on the floor we get a point of view up through the water, you know, and then they’re chatting and then when he sticks the probe in the water ripples and you know has that effect on the screen and we see that several times where they’ll give us some interesting shots through water sinisterly because we know that water is actually Jack Frost or contains his DNA or whatever like that. They do a pretty good job of trying to make this water seem pretty sinister when it comes out. We know that he’s gonna reconstitute himself somewhere else. But it’s this classic, we’re taken over here now and there’s a bit of infighting between him and the sheriff. Not enough of it really, but the sheriff kind of rolls over and is like, okay. But they make some set up this curfew and so the whole town, which is probably a dozen people that they could get for the crowd shot anyway, inside this, Again, I thought it was a community center, but I think it’s a church, because he sends the father downstairs to light up the furnace, and later on when we come in there, it’s supposed to be the church. I don’t know. It is a little confusing. It’s not a traditional-looking church in any way. It looks more like a community center. They make this announcement, and then they come back out, and the 1 guy’s going crazy running around, and the rest of the town gets to see this agent and his friend for the first time. This is when everyone kind of splits out. I think 1 guy, he takes Paul away and then he sends Chris out to check out his house and then because his wife is still home and hasn’t been contacted. At some point in here they’re like, somebody needs to find Jill and tell her her whole family’s dead. Yeah. I thought that was funny. Because Jill is out galavanting around with Tommy, right? There’s another 1 of these one-liners from the guy.

Clip: I would appreciate it if all you people would get off the streets.

Todd: Go darn a quilt or something. What the hell’s eating him? I bet you it ain’t his girlfriend.

Craig: So stupid.

Todd: I don’t know, it is stupid, but usually you’re the 1 who likes this stuff and I hate it. You’re like Grinch today, man. I don’t know. So he sends Chris to check things out. Chris stops in the middle of the road and there’s a snowman blocking his path, of course. And so there’s a whole sequence when the snowman gets in the car while he’s going back to get something to take it out and He runs over Chris and so the snowman is in the car going towards the sheriff’s house where his wife is

Craig: that whole scene It’s I didn’t even really understand the purpose of it Like I guess it was supposed to be the wife was in peril or whatever.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: But not really, because the cop shows up and there’s just a busted pipe or something. It’s like

Todd: a fake out, yeah. We’re supposed to think water’s pouring in from Jack Frost, but it’s actually coming from a pipe underneath the sink. From a drain pipe, which doesn’t make any sense, but anyway.

Craig: No, and then he just, the cop takes her away and takes her back or whatever, but that’s the setup for apparently, Jill and Tommy have been hanging out outside the Sheriff’s house. And this makes absolutely no sense. I know this was so stupid. Like, like they’d just been waiting outside the Sheriff’s house so that they can break in there

Todd: and make out. Why? Yeah. I didn’t get that either.

Craig: There was nowhere else you could go? But it doesn’t matter.

Todd: But the whole sequence is hilarious though.

Craig: Okay, this sequence is pretty funny. So they get inside And she says something about, what does she say? I don’t know, like a good man is hard to find or something and he’s like hard while I’m getting there. Like

Clip: I ask. I’ll get all scared in the dark. And then I’ll need a really big boy to look after me.

Todd: Big boy? You’re getting there?

Craig: I’m getting bigger. It’s a boner joke. Okay, great.

Todd: It’s a perfect movie for a

Craig: boner joke. My favorite part was like they’re like they’re looking at each other and it’s like oh we’re gonna do it so they start taking off their clothes but they’re in this like you know winter town And so like they’ve got all these layers on. So it’s like a minute of them stripping off all of

Todd: their layers. To like some Christmas strip tease music.

Craig: It’s so great. It’s so funny. That part was really funny. And then so they both get down to like their long underwear and it looks like she’s going to take her top off. I can’t believe we didn’t see Shannon Elizabeth’s boobs in this movie. It’s not like she was afraid to show her boobs later. I thought for sure we would see her boobs, but we don’t. But anyway, like when it looks like she’s getting ready to take her last layer off. She stops and she’s like, if we’re gonna do this, I’m gonna need a raging log fire and a bottle of wine. She turns around and walks off. You know, meanwhile, this is in somebody else’s house. I know.

Todd: It’s so silly. It’s so silly. And he’s like, OK. So she goes upstairs, and she turns on a hairdryer and the radio. He’s downstairs looking for a bottle. Of course, he opens up what’s actually a bottle of champagne between his legs and we get this, you know,

Craig: the pop, you know, pop, pop,

Todd: pop his cork, whatever. And a snowball hits the window of the kitchen, which startles him and makes him duck down. And somehow she hears this upstairs through the radio and

Craig: the hairdryer.

Todd: And so she turns it all off and is like, is everything okay? Anyway, goes back to doing her thing. Of course, Jack Frost comes in downstairs. This is the part in which I said he finds a knife or whatever, but it’s no good against Jack Frost This is where he has his we find out he has a superpower where he can shoot icicles out of his Fist which I wish I would you know, he should have done that more often to be honest

Craig: I’m guessing he probably does in Jack Frost 2, but I will never know

Todd: So he kills this kid by you know impaling it all of this is going on downstairs Of course, she doesn’t hear that she hears a snowball hit in the window, but she doesn’t hear this whole altercation downstairs. She comes out and she walks across the hall and notices that the bath is full of water. And she just calls down, oh, thank you, and walks in to sit down in the tub. And that’s when we get, I don’t know, this must be the most notorious scene of the movie. It’s up on YouTube. You can go check it out.

Craig: And you know, in theory, it’s really funny, but as, and I knew about it, I had seen it. When we talked about doing this movie, I said, this is the only part of this movie that I’ve seen. She’s in the bathtub, and the water, I guess, is Jack Frost. Eventually, he refreezes, so she’s encased in snow. Then she’s halfway trapped in his body like her arms are like through his body

Todd: yeah can’t move

Craig: and it makes a point of showing the carrot like float up in the water before it freezes. And then it also makes a very clear point of showing that once he’s reformed, that the carrot is not on his face, so it must be somewhere else. And he, like, for lack of a better word, bangs her up against the wall a bunch of times. And, you know, in theory it’s kind of funny, but I just felt kind of gross watching it. Yeah. Like, it’s, cause it’s rapey. Like, it literally is rape. It was rape, yeah. And it’s gross, and then he has, like, she dies. Like, he throws her on the floor, and blood comes out of her mouth, and she’s dead. And he’s like, looks like Christmas came early this year and I threw up all over the floor. Nope, too much, too far

Todd: Jack Frost. It’s a bit much. This might have flown in the mid-90s, but nowadays this is too much. Too far.

Craig: Yeah. Okay, so anyway, it all culminates. They all end up back up at the community center church, whatever it is. And Well, first of all, they end up at the police station and Jack Frost shows up and they kind of like the sheriff fights him off with a hair dryer for a while.

Todd: And then he has this really stupid idea where they’re gonna go, they’re locked back in where the cages are And they’re trying to find a way out. In the meantime, Jack Frost’s water is coming under the door. So he’s going to materialize at any moment. And because the sheriff discovered that heat is his weakness with the hairdryer, they’re like, quick, let’s get a lot of heat. So they pull a ton of aerosol cans out of the storage locker and tape them down to set them off. So they’re gassing themselves with aerosol in this room. Like they’re gonna die just from breathing this in, let alone their idea is what, we’re gonna light it and it’s going to explode while we’re here.

Craig: Well, but they’re gonna go out this window in the back, but it’s locked and they have to get the keys and the keys have been left in the door in this other side, like at the other end of the hallway. And the sheriff goes to get them, and he is the most inept person in the world. Like, they are literally just hanging out of the keyhole. He’s afraid to step

Todd: in the water, that’s what it is.

Craig: Oh my god, it takes him like 5 minutes, and like he’s fumbling with this huge key ring like just grab it like what is wrong with you but eventually he does grab it and not before Jack Frost like you know grabs his leg or something but whatever it doesn’t matter And then he has to let Paul out of the cell that he forgot that he was in, and he’s inept with the keys again doing that. But they eventually get out, and they do blow up the building, and they think that Jack Frost is dead, but he’s not, and he shows back up, but he’s like all put together wrong, like his head is where his arm should be.

Todd: And then they just run off. He’s like, I’ll come back here when I’m all pulled back together, and they go hold themselves up inside the building. It’s like, what? Aren’t you guys gonna like attack him again or do something? Yeah so they how they hold themselves up in the community center and Jack Frost comes in but this time they all have hair dryers and they’re set up it’s cute I mean I’m sorry but I thought this was fun I thought this was a funny part of the movie even though it’s silly where they’ve got this almost magnificent 7 thing going where they’re all standing straight in a row. You know, it’s kind of high noon and they form this barrier against him and as he comes towards them they whip up instead of guns they have their hairdryers And so they’re beating him back with their hair with the hair dryers into the cellar of this church, like literally into the furnace of the church and slam this furnace door and he completely melts away, obviously, inside the furnace. And they’re standing there and patting themselves on the back, at least the agent and stone are. And you notice that there’s steam coming out of it and it’s condensing again on the window and then Jack Frost reappears. And this is the craziest puppet part where he has icicles for teeth and he looks like a giant Muppet and again it’s like it’s a you know they don’t show too much of him but by now you’re so used to this silly silly puppet that it doesn’t even matter he bites the face off of the 1 guy and then is coming towards stone and they have a few words back and forth.

Clip: We know it’s you Jack. Ah, Humbug. Wait, wait, wait. I can help you. Maybe turn you back. But I’m having so much fun just the way I am. Wait, wait, wait. Then tell me what it’s like to a breach death. The dream of every man on earth. You’re immortal. How does that feel? Oh, it feels

Craig: Yeah, he kills him and then like he somehow like inserts himself

Todd: into him. Oh, this is so gross.

Craig: It was gross. Like he kind of wears him like a meat puppet.

Todd: Yeah, kind of like the cockroach thing in Men in Black or something. Yeah, walks him out and Stone’s kind of smiling, then he turns and he pukes up snow, which looks like they’re spraying, I don’t know, shaving cream or something on the ground. All the snow effects in this movie are so terrible. They’re really terrible. So he reconstitutes himself. So it turns out that the cop, there’s a whole deal that comes inside the car with him and his son, and then they sneak out. And as he’s running out, he grabs that bag of oats that he had left up on the dashboard and tosses it at the snowman. And as they run away from the car, they look inside and it’s like burning half of his face off. And he turns to his son, he says, what was in those oats? And it’s like, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I didn’t want you to get cold. And he said, what did you put in the oats? He says, anaphrase.

Craig: Which that’s super cute that he

Todd: nearly killed his dad. Almost poisoned his dad, yeah. Oh my gosh.

Craig: So stupid. Oh yay, congratulations. Thank God for you.

Todd: Would have been a short movie if he had eaten it when he got to work.

Craig: Yeah, I guess. I would have liked it better. Now they know. Okay, so then Jack Frost chases the sheriff. The sheriff tells the hardware guy or whatever, go get as much antifreeze as you can and be back in 5 minutes. And he’s like, okay. And so, good impression. Jack, Jack Frost chases the sheriff through like an apartment building, a brothel. I couldn’t, I have no idea what was going on here.

Todd: Just a bunch of rooms upstairs. No idea

Craig: what was going on. But he gets him in like the top floor and he, you know, starts stabbing him with an icicle. Meanwhile, the hardware guy has set up a antifreeze jacuzzi in the bed of his truck. Right at the last minute, the sheriff, who appears to be dead, wakes up and is like, I’m not dead, ha ha. And they dive out of this big picture window into the bed of this truck filled with antifreeze. And it’s very dramatic, but like struggling and whatnot. But then Jack-

Todd: He wrestles a bunch of crime into the water.

Craig: Yeah, Yeah, right. And then so it seems like he’s dead but then the stupid son is like, you forgot this arm! And picks it up and the arm attacks him and so like he has to pull the Sun with the arm wrapped around him into the back of the truck and then the arm melts too and everybody’s fine and everybody’s happy and they collect up all the antifreeze in jugs and bury them like Okay,

Todd: it consecrated ground.

Craig: Yeah, right But the last scene that we see is that underneath the ground the antifreeze is like bubbling and boiling so he’s not gone Oh my god, this movie was so dumb. IIII didn’t tell, like, I, my, I was watching it by myself, of course, last night in my living room, and then when I was done, I went back into the back and my partner was like, so how was it? I’m like, it was awful, it was terrible. And I was like, I’m kind of mad at Todd that we have to talk about this tomorrow. Are you serious? I hated it. I don’t know. Oh, I just thought it was awful.

Todd: I was sitting up cozy in my apartment, of course it’s nighttime, and I’ve got a Christmas tree up in front of me, and I had my laptop in front of me and a bowl of popcorn, and I sat and I watched this movie, and it just started warming me up with a Christmas spirit, and then when I realized it was gonna be a comedy, I thought, oh, this movie’s actually gonna be a little more fun to sit through than I thought, because I

Craig: thought it was just gonna be

Todd: bad, bad.

Craig: It wasn’t funny. Oh, I thought, oh. I didn’t laugh 1 time. In fact, like when the jokes would come, I would like give the computer screen a dirty

Todd: look. Are you serious?

Craig: That’s not funny.

Todd: That’s not funny. How about when he approaches them at the tail end and he’s like, somebody says, mother of God. And he goes, nah, bitch couldn’t make it.

Craig: Oh my God. There were so many one-liners at, well, there were so many one-liners like at 1 point somebody’s like who’s there who’s there It’s like it’s not fucking frosty What a stupid oh my god, it’s so stupid old man. I wish that I could remember all those one-liners. I swear to God I… Well, and like after they killed the snowman, they’re like, yeah, we iced him. Like, oh my God, are you serious? But

Todd: It’s said in such a corny way like seriously I felt like I was watching like if Mel Brooks made a Christmas horror movie This was almost it. You know if you go back and watch those movies. They’re almost as silly as this especially by nowadays

Craig: They’re smarter their L Brooks comedy is smart. Don’t get me wrong. I mean, it’s stupid, but it’s smart.

Todd: Yeah, but it’s also kind of juvenile and horror.

Craig: Well, yeah. And then right before Tommy gets killed, he’s stabbing the snowman. And he’s like, what are you? And he’s like, the world’s most pissed off snow cone. Like, come on. Like. I’m just like giving the computer a side eye the whole time.

Todd: To me that was the charm of the movie, man.

Craig: Okay, well maybe I just wasn’t in the right mood, but I will never watch this movie again.

Todd: I am putting this just to spite you. I’m putting this on my holiday rotation.

Craig: Well, good for you, but don’t even ask Next year if we can watch Jack Frost 2 because I refuse

Todd: now if you’re a completionist you really are

Craig: No, it’s true.

Todd: But Craig you got

Craig: no, you know that I am don’t patronize me You know that I am but I’m not gonna watch Jack Frost 2

Todd: Imagine what they did with a little more budget, you know, cult following behind them.

Craig: Fine, whatever. Hey, you have to admit,

Todd: you have to admit, it’s still more charming and more fun to watch than half of these garbage horror movies that rely so much on bad CGI for their villains.

Craig: Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, to be fair, we’ve seen way worse, we have seen way worse. But God, honestly, like That’s really how I felt ultimately at the end of it, was like it’s a horror comedy, it wasn’t scary, and it wasn’t funny. Like… All right, I’m sorry. Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas! We’re gonna have to agree to disagree on this 1.

Todd: Well thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this 1, please share it with a friend. You can like us on Facebook where we have a page there. Let us know what you think of this movie, because we’re clearly so divided on it. I would love to get through second, third, or fourth opinions. We’re still in the Christmas spirit. We’ve got a couple more episodes coming up for you this December, hitting those Christmas horror movies, so stay tuned. And then of course we’ll have to find something New Year’s themed.

Craig: Don’t worry, we’ll think of something super dorky. Dorky. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig.

Todd: With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.