knife through door, guy on other side

Despite being billed as “the first gay slasher film,” not many people have heard of this 2004 micro-budget indie movie. It did not receive a wide release, but it’s now available for streaming online, 14 years later, and we both concluded that it is definitely worth a watch. Listen here for our analysis

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Hellbent (2004)

Episode 143, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Craig:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig.

Todd: And I’m Todd.

Craig: And as per usual, I am recording my part of the podcast from my living room. You wanna tell people where you are today, Todd? 

Todd:  I’m in Singapore. I’m in a I’m in the, of the 4th floor restaurant of the hotel that we’re staying in, which also happens to be outdoors, and they’re playing A lot of the top 40 American hits, but there aren’t too many people in here. So I don’t think I’m bothering anybody. It’s it’s about 10 PM, But I am a little worried about the sound quality. So if it sounds a little strange to you guys, I do apologize, but that’s what’s going on. 

Craig:  I I gotta say, I I wish I were there with you. I think it’d be a little bit more exciting than being here in my living room at 9 o’clock in the morning, but that’s alright. Alright. Anyway, it’s our favorite time of the year again. Fall has rolled around, and we are now moving into October, which, of course, means Halloween. And so, once again, this year, we’ve decided to take a look at some movies that are set on or around Halloween and that definitely have, a major Halloween vibe. And so I just googled movies set on Halloween, and, And, I was directed to a Wikipedia page that had a whole big long list, of films. And, I went through and and kinda picked out some of the ones I thought were interesting.   Thing. And, I recommended for this week that we take a look at 2000 and four’s Hellbent, which, didn’t get a lot of attention when it came out. It played some festivals first, and then it had a limited theatrical release. And It’s a fairly typical slasher. It’s a slasher movie. What makes this a little bit unique, not that there hadn’t been A couple movies like this before and and this movie, I think, kinda sparked, a trend in in, this type of movie. But what makes it a little bit unique is that All of the central characters and pretty much all of the characters, really, are gay men. And so instead of your typical, Slasher where you’ve got kind of a hodgepodge of stereotypical characters.   In this film, we follow A group of gay men on Halloween night, young, attractive gay men on Halloween night, at a Halloween party in West Hollywood. Did you know anything about this movie? Had you seen it before? 

Todd:  Oh, gosh. No. I didn’t know a single thing about this movie. I mean and I could kinda see why. I mean, it it came out in 2004, And it’s pretty micro budget. I mean, it is a you can tell it’s low budget because it’s kinda cheap even though, I don’t think it’s a cheap movie. Actually, I kind of I really like this movie, to be quite honest. I’ll be interested to hear what you think of it, but you could tell from the way that it was shot.   And I’ll tell you. You know, in about 2004, shortly before that, I had shot a movie. I shot a movie in Japan, and I think I used a lot of the same equipment that these guys used. Mean, I I guarantee you, they were using the same camera I was using. You know? I can tell. And it was and it was shot on video, but they took a lot of pains Todd really make it seem like a bigger movie than it really is, as far as production value goes. You know, there’s a lot A cool scenery. There are a ton of care of not a lot of characters main characters in it, but Todd of extras, really interesting settings.   The lighting is really good and all that. Yeah. It it’s not enough to overcome that that shot on video kind of feel that it gets, but there are Some moments when it’s quite impressive and it really does shine. So this is the kind of movie that, you know, because it played some film festivals and then probably went straight to video. And in 2004, we didn’t we weren’t streaming stuff, you know, online. There’s no question I I wouldn’t have I wouldn’t have heard of this movie. No. Absolutely.   Yep. 

Craig:  Yeah. I don’t know I don’t remember where I first heard of it. I don’t know if it was on Netflix for a little while or or what, but I had seen it, and it had been quite a long time ago. And 

Todd:  You did. You saw this before? 

Craig:  Yeah. I had seen it before. I can imagine that probably I was Drawn to it because, it was advertised as, LGBTQ movie, and, you just I personally hadn’t seen a lot of that in horror. You know, we’ve done we’re up to I don’t know. We’re in our 140 something episodes, and we’ve only done maybe 2 other movies that had some queer themes. I was trying to think back. I know we did, Sleepaway Camp. The other one that I was thinking of, and it it could be considered somewhat of a stretch, but, let me in had some, kind of sexuality themes going on there. 

Todd:  Oh, yeah. 

Craig:  Anyway, the I watched this movie again, and at first, I was a little bit skeptical. I don’t know. Maybe I’ll get to why in a second. But as we got Through more of it, especially by kind of the halfway point, I was like, you know what? This is pretty good. It’s actually a pretty good slasher. And by the time it was over, I was really satisfied with it. I hadn’t really read a lot about it beforehand, but I went and tried to find some stuff. And I was a little bit disappointed because there really wasn’t much info in, the IMDB entry.   But then I went to Wikipedia, and there was some really interesting stuff there. And the thing that I was most interested in, was its conception. I guess there were these executive producers who had had some, you know, relative success with horror films in the past. Some of them a little bit more mainstream like, Halloween 2 and Halloween 3. Some of them a little bit, more obscure. But these producers just had this concept that they wanted to make a serial killer film featuring homosexual characters. And they came up with this general concept that they wanted it to be on Halloween night, and they wanted, these gay men to be pursued by a masked Killer. And so they approached this openly gay art director, Paul Etheredge.   They approached him, and he had never directed a film on his own, and he had never written a film on his own. And they tasked him with both of those things. And they gave him the concept, And he was interested, but he didn’t really know a whole lot about the horror genre or the slasher genre. So he went and he watched as many eighties horror films as he could find, especially slasher films. And he noticed trends. And, of course, there are in these types of movies. But he he kind of, figured out the structure of the narrative, and he realized that there were these stock character types, you know, the Final Girl, the Anjou, the slut, the tough guy. And so he translated that just onto, gay male characters.   And, really, that’s what you get. They also, wanted this to be a movie where the character’s homosexuality Sexuality was blatant, but also not the central focus that it was just sort of incidental to their characters. These were all The characters were all men who were comfortable in their sexuality and, you know, just went about their lives. It wasn’t A movie about them being gay. They just happen to be gay. Yeah. And and it followed them. And then it follows the pretty straightforward, serial Or or slasher movie where you’ve got this masked character who follows them around, motives Pretty much unknown, and he starts kinda picking them off 1 by 1.   And even though all of the kills are Pretty much the same. This guy, he’s this big, muscly guy, and he’s all painted up kind of like in this red Craig. He’s dressed as a devil, and he’s got this devil mask on. And he’s really intimidating, and, he he doesn’t speak. They decided there originally, he had lines in the lie in the film, but they decided to cut all of his dialogue because they wanted to leave him as much to the imagination of the viewers as they Could. They wanted the viewer to be able to project their own fears onto this character, and they were afraid that whatever voice they gave him would muddy that and would Yeah. Limit people’s ability to kind of draw their own conclusions and and whatnot. So he never talks, and the way that he kills the people is pretty consistent.   He carries around this scythe, and he beheads people. And and that’s, you know, it in a nutshell. But I just thought that, it was clever. You know? I I didn’t necessarily pick up on How stereotypical it was, especially with those stereotypical tropes of the the characters. Yeah. Yeah. But then having read that, I was like, Oh, yeah. I I see what they did there. 

Todd:  It wasn’t obvious. It wasn’t obvious. 

Craig:  No. It’s not obvious, but in hindsight, it kind of is. Right? 

Todd:  Yeah. It is in in hindsight, and maybe that has to do with the gender thing. You know? Maybe that has to do with the fact that it’s all men in this movie. Like, There isn’t a woman in sight, really. Oh, there are just, like, 2 women who or, like, extra extras. They come and they go. And, they don’t really have speaking roles or anything like that. And so many of those stereotypes that we slip into with those slasher movies are always they always have women in there too, and there’s often a lot of The gender kind of going back and forth like the women are weak except for the 1 woman who’s a finer girl who is strong.   And some guy’s a douchey asshole who’s always trying to get in some other woman’s pants. And, you know, all of this kind of thing seems to play so much on gender that when here, when you have 1, all are men, I think that even though, like you said, those tropes are in there, They’re a lot less, recognizable to us right on the face, maybe. They don’t seem so familiar. Right? 

Craig:  Yeah. I I agree. The other thing that I found interesting was that, they wanted a racially diverse cast for the movie, and they put out, you know, kind of a cattle call. And they specifically Invited, a large group of actors of color, but none of them showed up. And the writer slash director speculates that for whatever reason, whether it be, you know, cultural or or whatever, that people of color just weren’t as comfortable playing homosexual characters. And so they ended up having to cast, pretty much an entirely white cast, of effort on their part, which I appreciate. And it was I also found it interesting that all of our main characters, who we’ll get to here in just a second, We’re played by straight men. 

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. 

Craig:  And, you know, I think in 2018, that might ruffle some feathers. You know, there’s a lot of debate about representation in films, and some people have taken some flack for for casting white actors in roles that were Conceived, for people of color. And, so there’s been some backlash, but, you know, with this little Independent movie. I I don’t think it really caused much of a stir. And, frankly, I it didn’t bother me at all. All of these men were Comfortable kissing one another, you know, being sexually playful with one another. I I read that, the only complaint 1 of the guys complained after a kissing scene that his face hurt Because the other guy had 5 o’clock shadow. Yeah.   And and one of the characters is in drag The whole movie. And I I guess he kept falling down because he couldn’t walk in the heels. But it even worked for his character because even though he’s a gay man, I’m sure our listeners know that not all gay men are drag queens. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  So it it worked for his character that he wasn’t, you know, particularly comfortable in drag. It was something that he was Kind of doing as a gag for the night for Halloween. 

Todd:  Yeah. It was a Halloween thing, and he even said something to somebody else at one point, like, I don’t always dress this way or something like that. Right. Yeah. So it did. It worked a lot. It worked well. You know, what I really, really enjoyed about this movie, and I’ll have to say after about 10 minutes, I was like, I think I’m really getting into this is because this is this movie for me anyway and now you can you can tell me if I’m wrong maybe you don’t even know Craig.   But this movie for me was like a window into a world that is totally not ever been a part of my world and and never will be. You know? Right. It was just really fascinating to follow these horny gay guys around in 1 evening on This Halloween night at this party and them joking with each other and the kinds of stuff they joked about and the the places they went and the stuff that was on their minds and just I just More than anything, I think I really invested myself in the characters because I really liked hanging out with them. Does that make sense? 

Clip:  Yeah. 

Todd:  And It does. It was interesting to me as a Straight man who’s just I mean, of course, I like most straight men. I’ve I’ve plenty of gay friends, but, you know, there’s always gonna be. It’s just like going out with a group of women. You know? I’m always gonna be odd man out, and they’re never going to be their true selves or bear their selves or or kind of, like, do their girly things with me there. You know? It would be the like, the same sort of thing here, and so this was just really interesting to me. I don’t know if the movie was accurate in its portrayal of what a A night out or if it was maybe a little exploitative or maybe just a little over the Todd. I don’t know.   You could tell me. 

Craig:  Well yeah. I I mean, I’m certainly no expert, and I’m really pretty vanilla. You know? Like, I’m a stay at home kinda guy. You know, I’m almost 40 years old. Anything like this is very far removed from my life Todd. But I’m I’m glad to hear you say that. And, you know, I expected that that’s what you would say. But I was talking to my partner last night, and I’m like, I hope I don’t have to have this Talk with Todd.   And I said, and I don’t think that I will, but I know that there would be straight men, some straight men, who would watch this movie and be uncomfortable Because there is blatant sexuality, and you’ve got men kissing one another. You’ve got men together in sexual situations. And that makes some straight men uncomfortable, which I’ll never understand because I am gay, but I watch these slasher movies all the time. And I watch boobies flopping around, and I watch, you know, guys and girls making out and having sex, and girls and girls making out and having sex. And Todd doesn’t do anything for me, but it doesn’t make me uncomfortable either. And so I I Right. I just don’t understand, How some guys and I know you’re not like this, but how some guys get uncomfortable by that with that Well, 

Todd:  you know, I I think there was a time when I was, Craig, you know, when I was much younger, When I was, when I was told that this was a bad thing Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. And I kind of grew up, you know, with that with that mindset that I had to overcome. And so when you’re told it’s a bad thing or that there’s something wrong or unnatural about it, then naturally, you get uncomfortable seeing it. You know what I mean? I think that’s that’s where it is. And then Being a man, you know, and that, like I said, just isn’t a part of my world. I just don’t have those kinds of attractions in in the slightest.   Although, You know, there are people I mean, gender is very fluid, and gender is, is along a spectrum. You can be wholly attracted to women. You can be wholly attracted to men. A a lot of people are somewhere in the middle. 

Craig:  Right. Right. 

Todd:  In fact, a couple of the characters in this movie, are are bouncing back and forth. And that’s cool to see too. The movie felt very honest to me. And Yeah. Like I said, maybe when I was a kid, I’m watching this, this would’ve made me really uncomfortable. Now as a 40 year old adult, you know, a little wiser to the world, it was just fascinating to me because I like I said, it’s a window, and it’s again, I’m sure there probably is a whole genre of films now days that are geared towards, homosexual men, star homosexual people. Right. And it’s kind of like, like like rom coms for women, you know, that kinda thing.   But I’ve never seen 1. I mean, I never have, and it’s not because I 

Clip:  Sure. Sure. 

Todd:  I’m not interested. It’s just because it never has crossed my mind, and they’re just they’re not that you know, they’re not Splashed up on the on the marquee. Right? I mean, I think they’re still sadly probably direct to video or direct to streaming kind of things for the most part until 1 or 2 of these gets real big breakthrough and folks realize there’s a big market for it as I’m sure there is. 

Craig:  Well, in some of those that you’re talking about, there are some studios that Craig these out. And, they’re re oh, gosh. They’re really, really bad. I mean, they’re they’re just they’re just opportunities to get a bunch of very attractive men together running around in their underwear, and and that’s really all there is to it. And and so just like in any subgenre, there’s there’s the good and the bad. And I would argue that this is pretty good. As far as representation is concerned, I think that this is fair representation. I think that This is kind of a look into a world, one that I have never fully been immersed in, but I know some of these guys, and have known some of these guys.   And when I was younger, you know, I was a little bit wilder, there for a little while. And The the oh, what’s the word? I you know, it’s it’s not sleaziness or or sluttiness. You know what people choose to do, you know, with their sex lives and their bodies? I am very much of the opinion that that’s people’s choice. So I don’t have any problem with men who are okay with casual hookups and things. You know, it’s it’s not my thing and really never has been, but, You know, there is that culture. And, you know, West Hollywood, they shot I I guess they shot, like, 6 hours of, carnival at West Hollywood. And they only ended up using a a a couple of minutes of it, I think, but you can see it. You know, it’s there, and and this is real.   You know? These people get together, and they they get dressed up, and it’s very celebratory. There is a component of drug culture, but then I also thought that it was fair in showing that not all gay guys are the same. You know, they’re Yeah. They’re different. You know? Mhmm. Some of them are promiscuous. Some of them are not. You know? Some of them dress in leather.   Some of them dress in khakis and button down Shirts. You know, it’s, I thought it was fair representation, and I thought that these guys, even though they are straight, really were so comfortable that I appreciated their portrayal. And I appreciate it not that there’s anything wrong with gay men who are Affeminate. There’s I have no problem with that, but I think that that’s kind of a stereotype that’s used to denigrate homosexuals Sometimes. And these guys, even though they’re gay and they kiss other guys, they’re guys. 

Todd:  Yeah. They really are. Yeah. 

Craig:  Yeah. So I thought that it was, fair. And, the other thing that I really liked about the portrayal was our 4 main guys, Eddie, who I guess is the final girl, Chaz, who is the slutty one, Todd, who because he’s, You know, blonde and in drag and is the really beautiful one. It’s kind of the Ingenue. And then Joey doesn’t really fit the tough guy, but he’s, you know, into jocks and stuff like that. What I liked about the 4 of them was that their friendship seemed really genuine. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And it seemed like they were really comfortable together, And that is real, and that is something that I have experienced, especially in college, where there was, You know, a a tight knit gay community. You know, I had lots of guy friends, and we were very comfortable with one another. And, yeah, we would date one another sometimes and, you know, other stuff sometimes, but mostly, you know, we were we were friends, And we were comfortable, and we were comfortable talking with one another. We were comfortable being ourselves, and I I really liked that, about, the movie. And, you know, so that’s kind of the sociopolitical stuff. Should we get into the plot? 

Todd:  Should we talk about it? I Feel like we need to at some point. Right? Right. Well, the way that the movie starts out, actually did make me uncomfortable, But not for those reasons. The the movie starts out with a guy running down through the woods, and it’s dark. And, actually, Talk about really good cinematography choices. I thought it was really cool that in this dark woods where everything is kind of black and white, he’s running down inexplicably with a Big pile of balloons. Yeah. 

Craig:  Helium balloons. Right? Bright red 

Todd:  and bright blue balloons, and he’s being chased by, his friend. And, they end up in the back seat of a car. And they’re trying to make out, but they also have these balloons in the back seat. And Uh-huh. They’re starting to get pretty hot and heavy with it. And what made me uncomfortable about this scene was, my Todd, you guys are old enough. You should not be in the back seat of a car. 

Craig:  Right. These balloons in your face. 

Todd:  It was just, like, claustrophobia. I was like, come on, man. Like Like, I wanted them to get out of the back seat of this car just because it may be uncomfortable how crammed in they were and trying to maneuver around in there. Well, eventually, one of them rolls down the window and and, oh, he’s got his shirt off, and the other dude’s starting to pull his pants off. And he’s so he’s, kind of sitting halfway out the window. At the same time, we’re seeing some POV shots from the woods, so we know somebody’s watching them. And then we see flashes go in front of the camera of a figure, and we see these these horns and whatnot on the top of this figure. And we see that hook side thing.   And then as this guy is leaning back, getting pleasured as he’s outside the window, this guy, with a hook comes by and slices his neck, His head clean off at the neck. And it’s so clean and so quick that the other guy doesn’t even hear it, until he, What pulls him in or or leans over, leans out the window or something, and sees that his head is gone. And at that same time, Coming around the other side, the window gets, gets smashed, and we get the idea that he’s killed as well. And we He is, in fact, killed as well. What a great opening scene, though. 

Craig:  Yeah. It was really good. 

Todd:  It really was. And, again, it’s like you can swap male for female here, and it is An absolute trope. How many horror movies start out like this with 2 people making out in the back of a car, and then they both get killed, and that’s how it starts. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  But but for this film, it becomes kind of a focal point because they’re the 1st to get murdered, and the next scene is inside of a police station. And one of the guys, our main character, Eddie, sitting behind the computer in the police station clicking through wanted photos or something. And a woman comes up to him, one of the officers, and slaps some stuff down on his desk like he’s the detective. Right? Like, Well, we got another couple, we got a we got a murder in. It was a real nasty one this time. Heads cut clean off, and here are the crime photos, and she slaps them down for him. And he, in the meantime, had also printed out a bunch of these wanted It 

Craig:  it it looked like it looked like mugshots. 

Clip:  Happy Halloween. Jesus Christ. Fresh held. Bowed us courtesy of your friendly homicide department. Thanks. Hello. Hey. Oh, this is a nice lineup.   Yeah. You, planning on some personal time in the bathroom later? Okay. No problem. Something. 

Todd:  Anyway, it was really strange because if. Because, again, you’re getting the impression I think you were meant to get the impression that he is actually a police officer. It turns out that he’s just this girl’s brother. Yeah. She’s the police officer, And he’s like, I don’t know, hanging out in the police station going through the computer? 

Craig:  I think he’s a technician because she says something about how he needs fix the printer. Oh, 

Todd:  okay. 

Craig:  This scene, frankly, was a little bit clunky because he’s clicking through these He’s clicking through these mugshots and printing them out, and it’s really unclear why. I think that what this is supposed to do is to establish that he’s turned on by bad boys. 

Todd:  Okay. 

Craig:  And so I I thought 

Todd:  it was weirder than that. I thought it it was it was strange because not only is he okay. Maybe turned on my bad boys. I mean, he’s printing out these pictures. Okay. I get that. But then the fact that she’s presenting him with these blood bloody Crime scene photos that he also seemed kind of fascinated Todd. I thought there was a a bit more weirdness there than that.   I don’t think it was, but it was certainly was certainly the impression I got at the very beginning. 

Craig:  Yeah. It was odd. I didn’t know what to make of it either. But he ends up being kind of the Even though he’s into bad boys, he’s kind of the goody goody of the bunch. 

Todd:  Oh, yeah. 

Craig:  And then in the following scenes well, there’s a really cool Craig scene where, you know, it’s all, We get the credits, but it’s shot against kind of this, I don’t know, saturated red, almost like fire tones. And We see some of this footage that I assume is real footage, from from Carnaval. And then, we just kinda get your Standard introduction to the rest of the characters. The police chief, who was the only guy in the whole movie that I recognized, he had been in a couple other movies. I don’t remember. He was his name was, Ren t Brown, and he was in Hellraiser 4. And, I remembered him from a Robert Hunny Junior movie, Heart and Souls from the nineties. Oh, yeah.   He was a cop. He was a cop in that movie too. Yeah. The police chief asks Eddie to distribute these flyers. I guess, you know, looking for information about these murders or whatever. And so he goes around, and he’s hanging The flyers, and it’s it’s kinda goofy because he’s wearing his dad’s 

Todd:  his dad was so dumb. There’s no way that they would allow this to happen. Right? He asked them to hang out these flyers. It’s like, Oh, can I wear my dad’s uniform? Okay. You can wear your dad’s uniform. And he digs his dad’s uniform out of the closet. I guess his Dad’s dead. Right? 

Craig:  And then he 

Todd:  goes by, like, a Halloween store and buys a badge and puts it on, like, this cheap plastic badge. It’s kinda Stupid. 

Craig:  It is. Dumb. And then he runs around town, like, acting like he’s really a cop. Like, he’s, like, directing traffic, Kidding. You know? It’s it’s really pretty stupid. Yeah. But he as he’s passing these flyers out, he, Sees this guy outside of a tattoo shop, you know, this, you know, buff kinda motorcycle type guy. And, of course, the guy comes out for a Smoke without his shirt on because he’s getting a tattoo, and, Eddie’s immediately attracted to him.   So he goes over and, you know, goes in Todd the tattoo parlor under the guise of he wants to hang up one of these flyers or whatever. And he’s just staring at this guy while he’s getting a tattoo. And, eventually, the guy catches his eye in a mirror, and it makes Eddie freak out and drop all of his papers. And he just kinda runs out of there. 

Todd:  No. No. Now wait a second, though. Then there was that that shot of the blood kinda slowly dripping down. Yes. That coupled with the whole bit about the crime scene photos in the beginning Still had me feeling weird about Eddie. Like like, he was getting off on the blood thing too. I don’t know. 

Craig:  I I guess enough. I it just 

Todd:  it was just these little things. I was like, What are they trying to say about this guy? And and it wasn’t until it wasn’t until a little bit into the movie that I realized I don’t think they were trying to say anything like that about him because, like you said, he’s the Goody goody. It just was a little clunky. Maybe they were focusing on these things for other reasons. I don’t know. 

Craig:  Yeah. No. I well, I think that watching that That drop of blood run down this guy’s back was an opportunity to highlight this guy’s body. And, like, it was it ran right down to his waistline, which You could see down just just a tiny little bit, and I I think that’s I think that’s what they were going for. But, anyway, then they have a little chat, side the tattoo parlor, and the guy doesn’t seem to be really interested at all. And eventually, he just goes off. And and part of it’s because Eddie’s kind of a bumbling doofus, you know, in trying to talk to this guy. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  But then, he continues doing flyers, and he comes to this car where there are people having sex in the car. And he knocks on the car window, and you think that he’s just doing his cop gag again. And this girl pops up, and she’s like, oh, no. It’s a cop. And she’s like, I’m 18. I swear I can prove it. Meanwhile, this guy gets out of the car, and it turns out that this is one of Eddie’s roommates, Chaz. And I don’t know.   Initially, I think I was thinking, wait. I thought they were all gay. And then An another guy comes out of the car too, and it turns out that Chaz had picked up this couple, in the diner, and they were having a three way, in the car. Chaz is the slutty dirty one, but It’s funny. And he play he’s charismatic. Like, that’s the thing. Like, all of the characters are kinda charismatic. So it’s not like, oh, he’s the slutty one, so I don’t like him.   No. Like, He seems like a really nice, fun guy. He just likes sex a lot. They go into the diner, and Another one of their roommates is Joey. He works in there, and their 4th roommate, Toby, joins them. And Toby is in full drag. And, basically, what he says is, I’m a sex symbol every other night of the year. This tonight, I just kinda wanna be left alone.   So it’s like, I’m so gorgeous as a man. I’m dressing as a woman, so I won’t have to, like, get all these guys away from me or whatever. It’s kinda silly, but whatever. It’s a slasher be in there all having fun and 

Clip:  To be honest, it’s the 1 night of the year, Halloween, when you get to indulge your most perverse and twisted fin, Hey. Nobody cares. There’s Reynolds. Who put my line? That’s potential. Hey. Hey. Everybody talking about here, will you? So what about you, you know me, man. Life is meant for living. 

Craig:  And so they’re gonna go to West Hollywood, and they’re gonna go to this big carnival. And They get in the car, and and they’re just talking and chumming it up, and it’s very comfortable and natural. And, but Chaz drives them Chaz drives them to the spot of the murder, which apparently is only a quick jaunt through the woods to get to the carnival. 

Todd:  It just so happens. Yeah. It just so happened. It’s kinda weird that he does that. It leads to a pretty good jump scare, I think, where they’re talking about it. And That, again, for a first time director is very clever. He’s showing a lot of the window behind them, which is kinda what you do when you’re a little concerned That there might be something coming in out the window. And so as a viewer, you’re kinda looking for it, and you’re waiting.   And, I think it’s Joey as they’re talking about the the murder. Joey reaches around from the back seat through the window to the front seat and and grabs, Toby, right at that right moment and, freaks him out. And I I jumped. I thought it was I did too. To be able to put these tropes together so well that Even if you can kinda see them coming a mile away, they’re still effective. I thought it was pretty good. 

Craig:  Yeah. Oh, yeah. I agree. And and so then they’re sitting there talking about it, and they get out, and they’re gonna walk Through the woods, get to the party, and they’re they but they’re like, oh, well, it’s our gonna be our last chance to pee for a while, so let’s all pee. And they all kinda Spread out in this clearing in the woods. Really? And and they’re they’re they’re peeing and, you know, just kinda joking with one another. And then Eddie sees that somebody is watching them from the bushes, and he calls their attention to it. And they all kind of gather together, and they all see him, and it’s the killer.   It’s the same killer that we’ve seen, and we know that. Now they don’t think much of it. They think that this guy is Cruising them, which for you straight folks out there is, you know, this phenomenon where, you know, guys kinda hang out at Truck stops are in public parks, and and they’re looking for sex or whatever. This is not part of my gay experience, but I’ve seen movies about it. 

Todd:  This isn’t me, but, you know, I’ve heard stories. 

Craig:  No. No. I I’m serious. It’s not. Then my mom might listen to this, and I don’t want her to get there on the pressure. 

Todd:  Well, it’s so funny because at some point, they’re all taunting him. And, then they turn around and they moon him. Uh-huh. And the guy runs away or something like that. 

Clip:  You snuffed us? Are you kidding me? Four perfect young naked asses? Who walks away from that? 

Craig:  But they they think he runs away. And so, like, they’re pulling up their pants and, you know, zipping up or whatever. But then he pops up again, like, really close to them, and it scares them. So they take off running. Well and they also at first, they think he’s, like, playing with himself, but it because they can only kinda see him in silhouette, and they’re impressed with his physique. And this guy is a very, you know, good looking physical specimen. And at first, they think that he’s playing with themself, but then they realize that it’s the handle of his knife. And they they think you know? Now they know he’s got a knife, and he pops up right next to them.   So they take off running, and they get there. But, you know, it’s it’s almost like, That was funny. No big deal. But then they realized that he’s followed them there too, and they’re still not particularly concerned. It’s like they think that he’s just kinda messing with them or, You know, maybe has his eye on one of them or something. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And so they make eye contact with him and, but they they go off and do their own thing. And Eddie ends up seeing his crush, the biker guy, going into this leather bar. And they hadn’t been planning on going to the leather bar, but Eddie really wants to follow this Guys, so they all go. It’s pretty cool inside. You know? It’s all decorated for Halloween. There’s lots of, like, bondage stuff and cages and guys dancing in cages and Yeah. You know, fake limbs hanging from the ceiling. And 

Todd:  And then there’s a guy on stage who is doing some gay metal rock Rap some? 

Craig:  It’s gay yeah. It’s gay punk. There was a there actually was a term for it, and I I don’t have it in front of me, so I can’t remember. But it was a musical movement that was going on at the time that the, writer, director didn’t really know about the scene. But in in preparing for this movie, he found out about it, and, he wanted to include it in the movie, and there was this 1 band nickname and like, that was the name of the lead singer. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  Name and the and the somethings. So he approached this band to see if they would write some music for the movie and perform in this club, And they did. And I didn’t know this until after, but the lead singer of the band is the killer. Like, Not in the world of the movie. Like, they’re not the same character, but the guy who’s the lead singer of the band is the guy that Plays the killer. 

Todd:  Uh-huh. He’s the same a he’s the actor. Yeah. Right. Well, I was listening. The only reason I went down that particular rabbit hole is because The lyrics that he was saying were so disgusting. They were. I was like, what is this? And so I had to look him up, and I found out This guy, I don’t know.   He put out a couple albums, and he’s an ex Mormon missionary from Utah. 

Craig:  Oh my gosh. 

Todd:  I just had the last wild. Yeah. 

Craig:  Yeah. I didn’t like I it it the what he was singing was very fast. You know, it was it’s very punk, and and so the lyrics flew by really fast. And I would just get little bits of them, and I’d be like, what? Like, Like, I’m, like, clutching my pearls. Like, oh my. I’m clutching your pearls. 

Todd:  That’s great. 

Craig:  But it’s a it’s a it’s a Fun scene and, like Sorry. 

Todd:  This, again, is this whole other world, you know, this leather bar. And I wondered, you know, you know, 1 person we haven’t really talked about yet, But bears mentioning is Joey. His whole goal for the evening is to get this some guy’s number. Oh, and and he’s he’s the only one actually dressed in leather. That was his Costume for the night. He’s like the the young man of the group Uh-huh. Or whatever that they’re trying to take care of. And, Anyway, so he kinda fits right here in at home in this leather bar, and this guy, Nick Nain, pulls him up on stage.   And at first, he’s up there, and he’s kinda dancing. He’s a little uncomfortable, and he kinda pushes him aside. And he says, just go with it just go with the kid. Look. What is he doing? And 2 guys grab him and take him to this table that’s out in the audience and lay him down on this table, And they have these giant fake chainsaws, and they’re fake cutting him up with the chainsaws, and the chainsaws are squirting blood all over. Uh-huh. It’s like Sort of this, like, magic trick slash bloodletting kind of like fake bloodletting kind of leather bar thing. And, Nick ends up, like, underneath the table.   And these guys, when the lights kinda go out and come back up, they’re holding, like, a fake head of his up above Right. To the crowd and everybody. It was just part of a it’s like a whole show. It’s kind of a whole show kinda thing, and he crawls on the crepe. 

Craig:  I mean, you know, it’s Halloween, and it was Yeah. It was cool. It it was fun. Now I personally wouldn’t want that to happen to me because I wouldn’t wanna be covered in fake blood all night long. But If I witnessed it happening, I would be like, oh my gosh. This party rocks. Yeah. For sure. 

Todd:  And there’s also something a little sexual about it. You know? I’ve actually heard of some of these clubs. When I moved to Japan, the guy that, that I replaced at the school apparently was a videographer, and he would actually go to some of these, like, Leather bar kind of clubs in Japan, and and and he was, tasked with videotaping the shows and things like that. And some of his friends told me some of this Weird stuff that they did in these places, and it, you had me clutching my pearls too. 

Craig:  Yeah. I’ve never been to a leather bar. 

Todd:  But this kinda seemed like you just don’t see it in these kinda movies. You know? You just don’t. So it was cool. It was very unique. 

Craig:  Unless unless it’s being presented as something really seedy. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like like, Todd Detectives will end up here, like, for a murder investigation. Oh, like Everybody’s really seedy and and, you know, it’s all smoke and shadow Oh, and 

Todd:  Yeah. Like, 8 millimeter or some really nasty yeah. 

Craig:  Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. But this, I mean, it seemed like it seemed they were having a good time. You know? It was it was a party, and everybody’s having a good time. And there were, you know, there were guys in leathers there, but it was Halloween, so there are all kinds of people dressed in different things. Yeah. And, everybody’s drinking and dancing and having a good time, and Eddie finds his guy who it ends up, His name is Jake, and it’s a little bit awkward at first, but they have, you know, a little bit of innuendo banter.   And, eventually, you know, they not hook up, but they’re interested in one another, and so they’re gonna kinda get to know each other or whatever. Meanwhile, Joey sees the guy that he’s interested in, and this guy, of course, is dressed in a football jersey and, you know, like, he’s got the An entourage. And he’s got, like, the grease paint under his eyes, like, if you wanna play football or whatever. And he’s got this entourage. And Joey, who’s kind of this meek one, like you dead like the young end. He gathers up the courage to go talk to this guy, and, the guy’s friends are really rude to Joey. Now the the the guy, he’s not exactly kind either. No.   Yeah. He’s not exactly kind, but he’s not as condescending and rude. And you can kinda see that he’s a little bit embarrassed by how rude his friends are being, but he doesn’t say anything. No. And so Joey just feels totally dejected. It turns out that Jake and Eddie want to go somewhere else. They wanna go to the arcade. Toby is gonna go along with them, but Chaz is gonna stay back with, Joey and and make sure that he’s okay.   And so he takes Joey down to this bathroom underneath the club where it’s there’s not as many people, but it is kinda like the seedy bathroom where People are doing drugs and hooking up and stuff like that, but he Chaz kinda clears out the bathroom and gives him this little pep talk about how it’s gonna be okay. You know, we’ll get you cleaned up. It’s It’s not that big a deal. And, so he leaves him there in the bathroom, and he goes out. And he stands out there, outside the door. He’s already popped 1 ecstasy earlier in the night. Now he pops another one. He gets distracted by a hot guy.   So he he leaves his post or whatever. Meanwhile, Joey gets the impression and we get the impression that somebody’s watching him, and he starts looking around in the bathroom. And just as he’s about to open this one stall, somebody grabs him from behind. It’s another good jump scare, but it turns out it’s his crush. 

Clip:  Yeah. Jesus Christ, man. I didn’t even scare you. Your friend told me you weren’t here. I owe you my number. Yeah. Sorry about the war. I’m trying are in a mood tonight.   Listen. We’re all supposed to go to breakfast tomorrow. I could ditch them if I had better offer. 

Craig:  And he gives him his number, and he says, I hope I see you tomorrow. And he and he gives him a kiss, you know, just a a an innocent kiss, and then he leaves. And Joey is so happy and so excited, and he’s kind of jumping for joy, and then he gets grabbed by the killer and gets his head cut off. Oh, dude. This scene 

Todd:  This scene alone, just made me made me wanna cry. I I really my heart went out for Joey. From the very beginning, okay. He’s this guy. And then when he approaches this dude, I just felt so bad for him. He’s in the bathroom. He’s dejected. And then when this guy comes in and has his moment with him.   I was so I couldn’t be happy for Joey because I could see it coming a mile away. I knew Joey was gonna get it. You know? Oh, yeah. And, and I just felt so bad. I it really touched me pretty emotionally after. 

Craig:  He was yeah. The actor was, you know, he’s just kind of this sweet, unassuming little guy, and, It was very easy to feel for him. You know, he he felt very much like a little brother. And and that’s the vibe that you got from his other friends too. Like, Chaz, You know, he’s kind of the the slutty one or whatever. But when he takes Joey downstairs, he’s just really sweet with him. You know? And he wants to comfort him, and he wants to tell him it’s okay, and it’s not You, that guy’s just a jerk. You know, you’re a great guy.   It was very genuinely friendly, and I just I thought that was a really nice touch to the movie overall. We cut back to the other 3. And Now that Jake and Eddie are, you know, kinda coupling around a little bit, I think Toby kinda feels like a 3rd wheel. So he goes off on his own. He’s like, I need a drink. I’ll hook up with you guys later. And he goes off on his own, and he starts drinking heavily. And, you know, it’s funny because these characters are not Entirely flat.   Yes. They represent tropes and stereotypes, but they’re not entirely flat. No. This guy who is so confident in himself, so confident that he would have to be, You know, batting guys away from him. Now that he’s in drag and he doesn’t look like his normal self, he’s not getting the kind of attention that he’s used to. No. And it bothers him. Yeah.   It really bothers him. So we see that, and then we cut back to Chaz who is tripping on ecstasy. And he’s dancing, in the club with the lights, and, you know, they give us kind of point of view so we can see that he’s not necessarily hallucinating, but, you know, Tripping. And, the, killer approaches him on the dance floor and and just basically starts not gutting him, but Slicing away at him with his knife. And I guess the implication is that because, Chaz is so wasted that at first he doesn’t know. Now I don’t think that rings true. I don’t care what kind of state I was in. I would notice if somebody was cutting huge gashes into my abdomen.   But it it’s it’s not like he doesn’t realize anything is wrong. He gets a look on his face and and he, you know, touches his abdomen, and he pulls his hands up and he sees the blood. But before he can react, The guy cuts his head off, and the body just falls to the ground. Yeah. And all these people are dancing all around. And I guess You know, we’ve talked about this before. Like, if you’re gonna kill somebody, Halloween would be a good time to do it because people are expecting to see Carnage around. Now this seemed a little bit extreme to me.   Again, I think if I had seen this, I would’ve been getting off the dance Well, I But, 

Todd:  actually, I bought it hook, line, and sinker because there was a lot of strobe going on. And this this was technically, I thought, a Very well done scene in that when with the strobes. You know, we watched, what, hell hell house LLC or whatever. Yeah. And, they did a similar I mean, it’s not the same, but it’s similar where they they worked with strobe and that, crazy things would happen during the strobe light, and I thought that that was very well edited. This scene also, Extremely well edited and staged, I thought, to make it just convincing enough that on a dance floor, even though It’s crowded. And, yeah, okay, Halloween puts a little bit a little bit higher that you know, and about anything could happen. But I just sort of thought that the strobing aspect of what was going on would be enough to keep people distracted, to keep people from really noticing what’s happening.   And but but for us, As the viewer knowing what’s going on, it was still really effective, I thought, and I thought it was well edited. And, I this was a standout scene in the movie for me, quite honestly. I was impressed at how this was done openly In the middle of the dance floor, this killer thought he could get away with it and did, and supposedly chopped this guy’s head off and fell down, and everybody, Nobody really ended up noticing. Right? I I bought it. I actually bought it. I thought it was good. 

Craig:  I guess come to think of it, this is still the same venue where they did the whole Chainsaw thing. So Yeah. You know, stuff like this had been going on. 

Todd:  So maybe people wouldn’t Yeah. 

Craig:  Sure. So, anyway, then, He the killer has, you know, the 2 heads that he’s collected so far in a bag, and he’s, meanwhile, you know, all this happens within, like, 10 feet of Toby. Know, Toby’s just sitting at the bar. But just like everybody else, he’s oblivious to it. But he sees the guy walking out, and he follows him out. And this part was Sad. Like, he’s just so desperate. Like, he’s throwing himself at this guy. 

Clip:  Hey. I like your costume. You worked out. I can tell. You playing sports? What gym do you go to? Well, you’ve got enough candy already? You couldn’t use a little more? I don’t always look like this, you know? You Superficial faggot. It’s Halloween. Jesus. Frontier, look.   My driver’s license. Stop that hook. 

Craig:  And and the guy comes back. The killer comes back and, like, touches his face and, like, smears his makeup, and stuff kind of an essential way, but then he just chops his head off too. I mean, it just it happens really quickly. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  Meanwhile, Eddie is starting to get worried about Joey, and so he wants to go back to the leather bar to look for him, and Jake goes with him. And it’s a crime scene now, which they don’t seem to be particularly concerned about, which is weird. Jake’s bike, I guess, is parked in the back, and the cops are giving him trouble about going to get it. But he sneaks around there, and somehow He and Eddie end up on opposite sides of this tall chain link fence, and the killer attacks Eddie from behind, but just, like, hits him. Doesn’t cut his head off or whatever. So then there’s this little chase in the alley, and I think that Eddie locks himself in, like, one of those cages from inside the venue that guys were dancing in. And the guy’s swinging his side at him, And it and it the tip of it gets him right in the eye, but he has a glass eye. Now there there’s been little things It’s to hint at this throughout.   Like, he said that he had injured his eye. Like, he had wanted to be a cop, but he couldn’t pass the physical because he had injured his eye, so he had no depth perception and and stuff like that. But it was a cool shot. You know? I mean, it’s stupid because 

Todd:  It is stupid. 

Craig:  Physically it physically wouldn’t work this way. You know? It’s not like that glass is just gonna stop this side or whatever, but it looks cool. But the cops show up, and, the killer runs away. And then we see Jake and Eddie at the police station, and, they’re kinda shaken up, but not really all that well. 

Todd:  Gonna say, It’s just so funny because Eddie just sort of plays it off. Like, he doesn’t even talk about it, which is so weird. He got stabbed in the in the glass eye by this guy, And he’s got almost nothing to say. It’s like he’s gonna go on. This was the part this was the one part of this movie that I thought was so ridiculous. It didn’t ring true at all. You know? He should be freaking out. Yeah.   I mean, they know there’s a killer loose. He just had an encounter with the killer. He almost got him with a Freaking thing. And they just okay. They’re we’re gonna go back to my house now. He doesn’t say anything. 

Craig:  Well and he goes back to his house, and none of his roommates are there. And, like, You wouldn’t even be a little bit worried. Like, you know that people were getting killed at this thing, and your roommates aren’t around. Like, you’re I don’t know. But I guess he’s just too intent on hooking up. And so they start you know, it’s flirty and Eric. You know? Yeah. Him and Jake.   And they, and Jake won’t kiss him, but they’re getting physical. And they end up in the bedroom, And, Jake uses Eddie’s handcuffs from his police outfit to handcuff him to the bed, and then Eddie said or excuse me. Yeah. That’s right. Eddie says, there’s some condoms in the bathroom. So Jake goes to get some condoms, and then he gets attacked by the killer, sliced in the abdomen and then like Chaz had. And I thought he was dead. And then the killer starts coming towards Eddie, and Eddie sees him, and he’s but he’s chained to the bed, and he’s trying to get out.   And then, you know, right as the killer is leaning over him, he gets hit in the back of the head and knocked out by Jake, who is apparently injured but not dead. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  Eddie’s Eddie squeezes his hands out of the, handcuffs, tends to Jake briefly, name is Paul 911. Right. 

Todd:  I’m sorry. This is where it starts to go a little off the rails as far as believability goes. And, again, it’s Sure. It’s tropes and whatnot, but Eddie just totally leaves Jake. Like, he doesn’t give a shit. I mean, he supposedly does, but Jake is is half injured, and Eddie runs out of there into the kitchen to try to find a knife. And pretty soon, it’s just the Eddie show. And he knows there’s another killer in there.   He doesn’t stay by Jake’s side. He briefly tries to call for help, but, you know, it’s it’s 2004, and nobody has a cell phone. And, you know, he has this, like, remote phone, and, He tries, and it doesn’t go through. And then he notices that the actual base station or wherever those phones are supposed to plug into that they communicate with is unplugged. Anyway, there’s this whole encounter where then he he backs himself into the kitchen and into a closet in the kitchen and, into the door. And as he opens the door and backs himself in, a head falls down and all basically, all the heads of his friends are in there. And guess who else is in there? The killer who springs out. Mhmm.   This is where it got really stupid. 

Craig:  I don’t know. It didn’t bother me all that much. Hey. 

Todd:  I it’s the typical There there 

Clip:  is some 

Todd:  movie, but, you know. 

Craig:  It is typical. It’s the final showdown. And so, like, you know, the killer’s chasing them through the house. He ends up back in the bedroom. He closes the door, gets it locked. But then the the guy starts using his scythe to, like, chop the door down. So Eddie picks up Jake and puts him out on the fire escape and says, you’ll be safe here. And then he goes to the top of his closet because it where he has a gun.   It’s his dad’s gun, and he gets it, but then the killer in and knocks him down, and so he drops all the bullets. Eventually, he gets the gun and gets it loaded. The killer knocks him out onto the fire escape too, And they struggle, and the killer has him kind of, like, backed over the railing. And he drops the gun, and the gun lands on the level below. And then this part, the killer has him, like, pinned, and he comes in really close And he sticks his tongue out, and he removes Eddie’s glass eye with with his tongue Yeah. Which I just thought was So creepy. It was. Like, so creepy.   And he ends up I He ends up throwing Eddie over the side, but Eddie still has 1 half of the handcuff on and the other half Catches on the fire escape. So Eddie’s just hanging there. The killer goes after Jake, and he kinda picks up Jake and is gonna kill him. But Eddie gets the gun. He’s hanging there, but he can reach the gun. And he grabs it, and he starts Pointing, but we know he can’t aim because of his eye. And the killer uses Jake as a shield, But Jake is saying, shoot. Shoot.   Shoot. And so Eddie does. And the 1st time, he hits Jake or at least grazes him. But Jake keeps saying, shoot. Shoot. And so he he shoots again, and he he gets the killer right in the forehead, like, right in the middle of the head on his mask plate. And the killer falls over. Cut to, you know, few minutes later.   Cops. Yeah. Are there. The ambulance is there. Jake is on a stretcher. He’s going into the ambulance. He and Eddie have a sweet little scene where Eddie’s like, I’ll be there when you wake up. And then and so Jake gets put in the ambulance, gets taken off.   Eddie goes over because his sister, who’s a cop, is there, and she is helping to push the stretcher that the killer’s on. The paramedic says something, and Eddie’s like, wait a minute. He’s still alive? And the paramedic’s like, oh, yeah. But he’s a mess. You know? This guy, He’s no more dangerous than a carrot. And they push him up onto the ambulance, and Eddie is looking at his face. And the guy opens his eyes really fast and looks right at him and then opens his mouth in this creepy smile Todd reveal that he still has Eddie’s eyeball in his mouth. And so so it’s like it’s like his his mouth is almost like a third eye with Eddie’s eye just Staring out Todd it.   And then it cuts to black, and that’s the end. I loved that last image. I just thought it was hilarious. 

Todd:  That was the best ending this movie could have had. You know, the whole movie had shades of Halloween because of the the silent killer. There was so much of it that felt like Halloween. I would say Halloween crossed a little bit with Jeepers Creepers, crossed a little crossed a little bit with Trick or Treat, that episode with, the principal who was dressed up almost exactly the same way out of 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. 

Todd:  Running around, killing people silently, right, in kind of A similar fashion. I mean, obviously, trick or treat, I think, came out after this movie and, you know, Halloween is 

Craig:  before it. 

Todd:  And so, obviously, he was taking a lot from Halloween before this, but And and then Jeepers Creepers by a little bit of the humor, you know, a little bit of that humorous nature, especially that ending. Yeah. Yeah. I just I really liked this movie, and and I thought that the, you know, the scene that you just finished describing where they were up on the balcony or the fire escape. And, the the epicness of it, of him swinging there by his, even though it was a little unbelievable of Having his, handcuff hooked over the edge, it still made the movie seem like a bigger movie than it is. I mean, this is one of those points in where, Yeah. They took this micro budget film and just made it seem like a big budget movie by this epic ending scene. And, Actually, what, Jake had said was shoot me.   Shoot me. And I I think what he was saying to Eddie was if you aim at me, you end up Hitting the other guy. 

Craig:  Oh, yeah. That makes sense. 

Todd:  Because there was this whole bit, which we didn’t really talk about. But like you said, you know, there were hints earlier about his eye not being right after for some accident. And he and Jake had had this moment where he was shooting at the car in in the carnival one of the carnival games where he couldn’t hit anything, but Jake was 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  They’re trying to help him aim, so it was so cute. So, anyway yeah. Yeah. It was it was it was neat how that all kind of tied together. Very cleverly written script. Well acted. I loved these guys. I loved spending time with them.   Even though they were written as tropes, they felt fresh. They felt genuine. They all seemed like friends, and I Really, really hated to see each of them die when they did die. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  There’s so many horror movies, most of them actually, when I don’t feel emotions like that at all. And this movie really gave me those emotions in spades, and I wasn’t expecting it at all from this kind of film. I was so pleasantly surprised. 

Craig:  Good. I’m glad you liked it. I did too. And, you know, it didn’t get a wide release. It didn’t make much money, but, it was pretty much Well received critically. I mean, there were some critics who didn’t like it, but it it got a lot of positive feedback from the critics too. And, you know, I think it’s a a a good movie. And, yeah, I don’t know.   I read this, that it kind of Paved the way for all of these gay slasher movies. Well, I don’t know where they are because I haven’t seen a lot of them. But But whatever. You know? I think it was made with good intentions. I think it was made to, you know, provide some representation to people who are not Regularly represented or not represented in a serious way. You know, when a lot of the times when you have gay characters in a horror movie, they’re the comic relief, or, you know, they’re they’re very stereotypical. And and this movie, I felt like, you know, was making A real effort to just paint these characters as just people. You know? They’re they’re just people who happen to be gay, and, it’s it’s not that big a deal, and, I I like that.   I appreciate it. 

Todd:  It could have so easily gone into that territory where, you know, we’re gonna make this about them being gay or whatever, and it absolutely didn’t at all. And I actually really liked the relationships between the characters. And I especially thought that the Jake character. It was interesting how that transformed throughout the time. You have Eddie who, like we said, was sort of the, kind of unsure, kind of pretty boy character who’s interested in this Jake bad boy guy. This for me was shades of The Lost Boys. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  Eddie the biker is kind of distant, kind of mysterious. Even to the end, it’s kinda mysterious and kind of, kinda hard. 

Craig:  Yeah. But I also liked what they did with his character and that he you know, it turned out that he had recently been hurt by somebody, and that’s why he was so Yeah. Kind of standoffish and, like, that he wouldn’t he was down to, you know, get physical with Eddie, but he wouldn’t kiss. Mhmm. And and it was only after Eddie saved his life, then they they share a romantic kiss. And so even that character was given some depth, and I I I mean, that’s good writing. 

Todd:  It is. It was excellent and well acted too. Just really well acted. 

Craig:  Yeah. Alright. Well, thank you for listening to another episode of 2 guys in a chainsaw. We will be back the rest of this month with more Halloween Themed films, we’ve got, a lineup already kinda set up. But if you have any suggestions, still throw them our way because, we’re pretty darn flexible. If you liked this episode, you can find tons of back episodes, on our website. You say Todd. I always screw it up.   2 guys dot redfortynet.com. You can also find us on Facebook, Itunes, Google Play. Anywhere where you can find, podcast, you’ll you’ll find us. Until next week. I’m Craig 

Todd:  And I’m Todd. 

Craig:  With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

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