It’s Alive (1974)

Episode 82, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podacst

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd. 

Craig:  And I’m Craig. 

Todd:  So, Craig, we have a little bit of an announcement to make. It’s exciting. In my life, things have been changing quite a bit. You know, first, we moved to China, and then not long after we moved to China, we found out that my wife, my wife and I, by the way, have been married for about 15 years. We found out she was pregnant, and we have given birth to a nice baby boy. 

Craig:  Yay. Yay. If I had a cigar, I’d be smoking it. 

Todd:  Thank you, my friend. Thank you. So it’s been a really nice exciting addition to our life, and we thought what better way to announce that to our listeners than to, watch a movie about a demon child. 

Craig:  This was my idea, folks, so, don’t don’t blame Todd. And and even when I told him, I’m like, I don’t know if it’s distasteful or not. Let’s do it anyway.

Todd:  Oh, heck no. It seems only fitting. It at least, we we it’s kind of like, you know, you go grocery shopping after you’ve had a really big meal. This is kind of the kind of the same deal. I think we we maybe we purposely waited, to watch these films, until after the baby was born, just to make sure everything was gonna be okay. So, you know, we could have chosen a number of things. You’d rattled off The Omen, Rosemary’s Baby is the obvious choice. But we kinda tend to be into a little more schlock on this, on this show.   We, at least those are the ones we have a little bit more fun with from time to time. And there’s one movie that has been on my list forever, and I don’t think Craig you had ever seen before either. But I think we both had wanted to see it and that is the 1974’s, It’s Alive. Mhmm. So, yeah. This one’s been on my radar for quite some time and I think it’s because I always grew up sort of knowing about this movie. I mean, I was born in 1978. And so as we were kinda crushing the threshold from the seventies and the eighties, my parents had a lot of stuff around the house like, I don’t know, like from movies from the seventies.   And it’s alive. I think my parents maybe had the soundtrack to it. And so, you know, look looking through our record collection and things like that, I think I had been I had seen the cover for it at times. So just this this crib with a claw reaching over the side of it. And it always been intriguing to me. I knew I knew the movie that existed probably even saw it on the shelves of the video store, but never actually got a chance to sit down and watch it. So, this was the time. How about you, Craig? Had you seen this before or 

Craig:  Nope. And I’m I’m really surprised that neither of us had seen it because this is one of those ones that, you know, we say it all all the time, but you and I grew up in a, video store culture, and this is one of the ones that, you know, I saw on the shelves and, you know, that box art like you said with the crib with the claw kinda coming out, or excuse me, stroller, whatever it is. It was always intriguing and not just not just this one, but then there were a couple of sequels too that used the similar imagery. And, it Todd did always intrigued me, and and yet somehow I had never seen it until yesterday. So, no. It was new to me too. 

Todd:  And I guess this film eventually did pretty well. Obviously, well enough to warrant a couple of sequels. But initially, the, you know, after it was made, there were some the studios changed hands a little bit. There was some shake up in the executive branch or whatever. And, people the studio itself kind of lost interest in the movie, which surprises me a little bit. But in any case, it eventually got released almost 3 years, I think, after its initial release in like one theater in Chicago. They came out with a pretty impressive little marketing campaign with a little slogan, that drew people in. And end up making a little over 7,000,000, which I think is pretty good for the time.   And again, enough Todd to warrant some sequels. And the writer director is Larry Cohen. And Larry Cohen himself has done a ton of things. I mean, if you go to IMDB, you’ll see that he has got over 80 writing credits. A lot of it, in TV, number of films. He tends to be in the more horror slash sci fi slash, Twilight Zone y type crime kind of things that he’s done in the past. And his movies, you know, you’ve you’ve heard of him. He did the stuff.   He did Maniac Cop. He even did a blaxploitation flick called Black Caesar, of all things. I mean And I think Richard Rountree was in it. I mean, it’s it’s it’s so weird, the variety of stuff. And this guy started out as a page at NBC and so that he started writing for television and just worked his way up the ranks there. He even did a remake of It’s Alive, back in the early aughts, I think. That I think kinda came and went as well. Was there any did you hear anything about that or 

Craig:  Yeah. I didn’t know he did it. You know, funnily enough, I’ve seen the remake. 

Todd:  Oh, you have? 

Craig:  Yeah. I I have. I remember seeing it. I don’t know. It it wasn’t when it first came out. It was on Netflix or something I when I saw it, and this doesn’t speak much to the quality of the film, I guess, because I I really don’t remember it at all, except for that I I know that I saw it. And watching, the original definitely kinda brought back some memories of the remake, but the remake as is often the case with, these older subgenre kind of movies. It it just it wasn’t this movie, if you can say anything for it, it it is unique and, I think that, the original or or excuse me, the remake just didn’t really capture anything special.   I mean, it was just kinda ho It it was alright. I don’t remember much about it. It was bloody and and stupid. That’s another thing, this is another first for us, I think, if I remember correctly. Because if I if I remember correctly, this is the first PG movie we’ve ever reviewed. 

Todd:  Oh, yeah. You’re right. 

Craig:  And and I when I when we looked it up, I was surprised. I was like, PG, wow. Like, we’re we’re usually dealing in at least PG 13, if not beyond that. And and I was surprised because, really, I don’t know if I would say it’s scary. It’s unsettling. More than scary, it’s unsettling. But I I was still surprised to find that it was PG. I know that I looked, I haven’t seen the sequel, there are 2 sequels, and I haven’t seen either one, and I know that the next one was rated R, but I was reading and in viewer reviews, said that the sequel is no worse when it comes to gore or sex or violence or language than the, original.   Really? And yet it got an R rating. I imagine it’s probably just because this one came out and was placed in the horror genre, got the rating that it did, but then the next one just being a horror sequel, I think, probably got the R rating just for falling into that category. But, yeah, a PG rating for this one, which is interesting just because I’m surprised that it got through the ratings board with a PG, just based on the subject matter. I mean, it it’s weird, you know, an evil baby, you know, It’s just kind of a weird, it’s just kind of a weird subject matter, I guess. But, Yeah. I don’t know. I’ll I’ll I’ll be interested to see what you thought of this movie because frankly, when I was watching it, I liked the premise. It was an interesting premise.   I felt like maybe it dragged on a little bit too long. And it’s not long, it’s only an hour and a half. But I kind of found myself looking at my watch and I was thinking, you know, the whole time, oh, this is a little long. It could have been an hour. But then when I got to the end, the very end, I was a little bit more affected, than I expected to be as a new dad. Because really, the movie is really kind of centers around the dad, the new dad. And so, I’ll be interested to see what you thought. 

Todd:  Well, you know, I I felt exactly the same way, and and I didn’t know if it was just because, I’m a new dad or what, you know. But, I’m I’m glad to hear you felt a little similarly. It it’s different from a lot of the other, like, evil kid movies are not that unusual. I mean, you go to Rosemary’s Baby and that’s but but but this is different because it’s, Rosemary’s baby is really about, like, the spawn of Satan, you know. And Right. Right. So that’s kind of a whole different deal. And then you get something like the omen or the good son, and that’s really more about a troubled and disturbed child.   Right? Right. Right. But this is the first time where it’s, like, the baby’s born, and the baby is, like, not of this earth, almost when otherwise the parents are completely normal and there doesn’t seem to be a really good explanation for why. So it is unique. You’re right. And it’s a little jarring in that sense, more jarring than I thought it would be. I mean, I knew what we were coming into. But I guess I didn’t expect to be as moved by it by the end of it as I was.   So, you know, like you said, it’s a little plodding and it sort of has the feel of when older, like, made for TV movie or like a really long episode of something from, you know, a seventies show. And a lot of that I think has to do with the score and the way it’s paced. Honestly, the minute the score came on and and the person who scored this was is did did a lot of scoring for television, especially, Alfred Hitchcock Presents series. It kind of sounds like a 1950s style b movie. 

Craig:  Mhmm. It 

Todd:  really has that feel to it where everything is scored throughout and it has 

Craig:  That was good. That was good. Good job. 

Todd:  Thank you. Yeah. I thought so. It it has that motif. Right? 

Craig:  Yeah. No. Actually, I I I think the score is really strong. And this guy who did it, Bernard Herrmann, I get like you said, he did a lot of Hitchcock. He is behind the score for, Psycho, and and and did a lot of other big name stuff too. So, it feels like 1974. And because it feels like 1974, it feels a little bit cheaper. But I don’t think that that’s necessarily because I think it’s because of the time, not necessarily because of any other aesthetic.   But but the the score, like, it’s like this orchestral score behind the whole thing. And, I really I really enjoyed it. 

Todd:  I did too. And the other thing that I think makes it feel 19 seventies is it has this almost a lack of a sense of urgency about it. And I was trying to figure out if this was a good thing or a bad thing, but there’s almost a reality to the movie. In some ways, it felt overwrought, but in other ways, it felt completely not overwrought. Mhmm. And let’s just get into it, and maybe we can pick that apart as to what we’re talking about. So, basically, it jumps right in. It’s evening time, and this was very familiar to me.   There’s a a woman and a man who were sleeping in bed, and then what, you know, Frank and Lenore. 2 very white bread American names. And Frank Yep. Wakes up and, Lenore says, I think it’s happening. And Frank’s like, oh, really? And he kinda gets a smile on his face. And they get up and they go into Chris’s room and they say, yep, the the baby’s coming. So, you know, they pack their things. And immediately, I said, this is gotta be one of the most accurate portrayals of childbirth that I’ve ever seen in a movie.   Because, you know, what you normally see in the movies is this overly dramatic, like, oh, no, the baby’s coming. Oh, my Todd, my water broke. Like, get in the taxi quick, and they’re running, and they’re throwing things together. It’s like it’s a sudden urgent thing. And anyone who’s ever had a kid can tell you it is not that urgent. Like, you could be in labor for, like, 22 hours. Like Right. The basically, the hospital tells you once you start feeling contractions, you basically start timing them.   And only when they get to this, you know, certain length of time for so much time do you even think about going to the hospital? And even then, don’t run, take a shower, get something to eat Right. Because you’re probably gonna be there forever. And the fact that these this is their second kid, right, they have the son Craig, who’s probably, I don’t know, 7 or 8, maybe even a little older. 

Craig:  He’s 11. Oh, he’s I That’s right. It’s mentioned, isn’t it? Yeah. Yeah. Not that that’s at all important, but you weren’t paying attention. You’re right. You’re right. He’s 11 years old. 

Todd:  I was like, yeah. That’s exactly how it is. And they’re just very chill about it, and they kinda go into the baby’s room, make sure that they’ve got a crib there, you know. They give us kind of a little tour of the house, and we meet the family a little bit as they’re packing up and they go to the hospital. And then it it’s the movie shows its age in so many ways, but it definitely shows its age in the way that the pregnancy is treated because it’s immediately and this is what they used to do, you know, they would separate the men from the women. Uh-huh. Pregnancy was the woman’s job, and she went in, alone with the doctor and the nurse and had the baby, whereas dad would sit out in the lounge with all the other expecting fathers, you know, smoking and 

Craig:  And smoke cigarettes. 

Todd:  Yeah. Waiting nervously to find out that everything was okay, you know. Definitely not how it’s done today, but deaf but absolutely the way that they felt it should be done even just not even that long ago, man. I mean, maybe it 

Craig:  I know. I mean, these are our parents. 

Todd:  Right? So, anyway, they drop Chris off at Charlie’s as a neighbor. So they’ve clearly, you know, worked all this out. And the neighbor is really nice guy and more than happy to, to take the kid. And Todd luck. See you guys later. And in just a very quiet and subdued way, they go to the hospital. Even though it’s nighttime and it seems like this hospital has nothing going on, there just happened to be, like, 3 other dads also waiting in the waiting room. But even when the mother, when Leonor is taken in, she keeps remarking, this just feels different.   This feels different. 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And and when she’s in the delivery room, the doctor’s almost like an asshole to her. 

Clip:  We’ll we’ll check you before we really do anything.   You are. I just   You’re doing just great. Just relax.   It’s really good. It’s really been different than Chris.   On your chair. We’ll do ours now.   Something’s wrong. I know something’s wrong.   It is nothing really wrong, honey. It’s just a very, very big baby.   I I know.   Gonna be fine, but I need your help. You know what you have? Wrong? How big was your last baby? How big was your last baby? Did you say   £7.4 ounces. I told you that this baby was different than Craig.   This baby is just gigantic. 

Todd:  Again, so unlike most pregnancies as they’re portrayed in the movies. This is so like how it is. You settle in and you kind of feel like you’re in it for the long haul. I mean, my wife’s labor took, like, 6 hours, and then she ended up having to have emergency c section at the end of it. You know what I mean? You just don’t know how these things are gonna go, and it just takes time, and it’s slow. But for whatever reason, she feels like things are a little different and the doctors, you know, basically telling her don’t worry about it, and he’s gonna remove the the head with the forceps. And I think before we get to the point where the baby comes out, we have to say a little bit about the character Frank. It’s an interesting contrast that they portray of him as opposed to the other fathers in this waiting room.   Whereas the other fathers seemed like really nervous and one of them’s like getting up and sitting down and getting up and he’s trying to buy something from the vending machine and he can’t. He starts kicking the machine. He’s like, it ain’t my quarters. You know, Frank just sort of calmly stands up, walks over, pats him on the shoulder and says, here are your 2 quarters. Go ahead. Why don’t you have a seat? You know, let’s play some poker. 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  Throughout this whole movie, he’s really seems to be the kind of guy who’s trying to be cool and calm and aloof about absolutely everything. Whether it’s a a persona he is he feels like he has to put on, or whether it is, just the way his character is. He’s a PR guy. I felt like the character Frank was really well drawn in this movie. 

Craig:  Yeah. I don’t know. He’s he’s, and that’s the thing. I I feel like they’re they’re trying to portray both of these couple or both of the members of this couple, both Frank and Lenore. I feel like they’re trying Todd, portray them as these are normal people. You know, like, this is, this is a guy who works, in PR and he’s, you know, kind of the man of the family. And, Leonor is very much the wife and the mother. And there’s an interesting dynamic between them.   Like, when she’s in labor, she says something like 

Clip:  Oh, I’m glad I’m glad we decided to have the baby aren’t you, sweetheart?   We both want it. Don’t worry about it.   It’s not gonna it’s not gonna tie you down, is it, sweetheart? Are gonna feel trapped like you did last time? 

Craig:  Like like this pregnancy is something that was unexpected and and and maybe something that potentially didn’t necessarily cause conflict between them but something that they had to consider. Later on after the baby is born and they’re questioning, well, because of what happens, the cops end up showing up, but the doctor says to them, you didn’t think anything was wrong. You, 8 months ago, you had inquired about abortion. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And Frank Frank just immediately pipes in and says, well, you know, it’s just this day and age. I mean, that’s something to consider. You know, we it was a matter of convenience, but we decided to have the baby. So you get the impression that, you know, this was something that they had thought about and considered, that they they they’ve got this 11 year old kid. They I would guess they’re in their, what, like, mid forties, maybe? Yeah. 

Todd:  Seems like 

Craig:  and and so, you know, maybe they weren’t expecting another baby, and it it was something that they had to make a decision about, but they decided to have it. But even when the baby is coming, she’s still concerned, like, is everything gonna be okay or, you know, she’s worried about how her husband’s gonna react. And and I liked the way that they were portrayed, and I especially liked not only the way they were portrayed in the beginning, but how it became very believable that after things went wrong 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  The way that they reacted to it felt I don’t know if it necessarily felt realistic, but it felt believable. You know, like, I I believed these characters. What happens is Leonor is in there. She’s, you know, the doctors and nurses are all around and and she’s dilated 10 and the doctor says, Wow. This baby is gigantic. It’s probably at least 10 or £11 and it has a ginormous head. And so he’s down there. And again, like, I do think that it speaks to the time because it’s almost like, you know, she’s there and he’s talking to her, but it’s almost like he’s working on a car.   You know? Like like like, she’s like, she’s not a person at all. 

Clip:  Now we’re just putting forceps on the baby’s head. Just breathe deep. And don’t push, just pin. I was just easing the baby out. Love it. Bye. Now we just cut you. You didn’t feel that, did you? No.   Okay. Fine. Now the baby will be out in just about 30 seconds. 

Craig:  I would hope that in today’s day and age, that a doctor might say, here’s what we’re going to do. Yeah. Be prepared instead of just, oh, we cut you. You didn’t feel that right? Uh-huh. So anyway, the next thing that we see after that is one of the doctors stumbles out into the hallway where Frank is waiting, and and, he’s all bloody on his neck and and he collapses outside. And and Frank runs into the delivery room, and all of the doctors and nurses are dead on the ground. Instant. Yeah.   Like, yeah. Like, instantly, like, a freaking bomb went off of there. 

Todd:  That’s right. 

Craig:  And not only that. And again, this is something else that I don’t know if this is a product of the time or what, but Leonora is, like, still strapped to the bed. Yes. Like like like, she’s she’s got, like, leather restraints on her arms. Like, what Todd they think that she was gonna do? That’s a good point. They deduce that, the baby came out and killed everybody, and then and then escaped because the baby is gone. 

Todd:  It’s And 

Craig:  they talk about how, like, there’s a broken skylight, and it escaped through the skylight. Like, okay. Yeah. 

Todd:  It’s a pretty quick conclusion to jump Todd, and their only I think their only explanation is, well, the hole in the skylight was too small for a man to get in. So at first there’s like a quick, like, question as to if somebody broke in and stole the baby, and Frank at first is angry at the hospital. He’s like they took you you took we trusted you. We keep saying I trusted you and and you guys took my baby. But then like the very next scene suddenly they’re they’re asking him like, she didn’t have any exposure to radioactivity, did she? And Frank is discussing with the doctor about how well naturally it’s it’s an animal, it’s not my son, and we need to kill it. So there’s this complete 180 where he completely disavows his son. And it seems like the reason for doing this initially is that he’s concerned about their own reputation. You know? It’s kind of a a self preservation thing.   Do whatever you can. We we definitely need to kill it. And he’s basically giving the police carte blanche to do what they need to do. Right then 

Clip:  there. 

Todd:  And as he’s driving home from the hospital, he hears, immediately, there’s a radio, news broadcast about this. And he says, damn, they even named us on the radio. 

Craig:  Oh, yeah. They give, like on the radio, it, like, gives the exact full details of everything it happens. And they and they name like, they give their names and stuff. Like, that is so ridiculous. And it doesn’t just happen once. It happens again later. Oh, yeah. Like, the full the full details of exactly what’s going on in the broadcast right away. 

Todd:  Practically tells their home address. I mean, it’s 

Craig:  just crazy. And what I what I was trying to get at before is that I I liked the representation of the parents. Not because necessarily I thought that it was honest, but just because I thought that it was an interesting dichotomy. And they make a big deal out of the fact that nobody saw the baby. Doctor. 

Clip:  Yeah. 

Craig:  Doctor. And I feel like that’s a, like, that’s kind of an important part is that nobody saw it. At some point somebody asks the mom, you must have at least got a glimpse at it. And she, she kind of was like, well, maybe I kind of got a glimpse. But it’s like a big deal that they’ve never, that they never saw it. And I think that’s important, and it’s important for the the end of the movie. But you’re right. Frank, it it right away is cooperating with the police, and the police say it’s an animal.   And, when we find it, we’re gonna have to destroy it like an animal, and and Frank is okay with that. But Leonor, from the very beginning and and I could only imagine that this okay. I I hope that no crazy demon killer babies are going to be born. But even if that were the case, even if that happened, the mother, you know, she she says something like and and it’s almost a throwaway. Like, I don’t even feel like the camera is on her when she’s saying this. I feel like it’s on Frank, but she says he was probably just afraid that they were gonna hurt him. He’s not ugly. And and that would be the response that you would expect from a mother, you know, regardless of how monstrous this baby might have been.   You know, I would imagine that a mother would feel some sort of connection, some sort of empathy and want to help, and I appreciated Todd. And you see it in the performance. And as the movie goes on, there were points in the movie when I was taking my notes and I you could see it in the actor’s face. It was like Frank is losing it. Like the what it what is what is going on, you know, all of this that’s going on is literally driving these people mad. And and it would. Closer towards the end of the movie, I said the same thing about the the mom. Leonor is losing it.   Like, they just can’t handle these circumstances. And I didn’t recognize many of the actors or actresses, from this movie but, Leonor was played by a woman named Sharon Farrell. And when I looked her up, I noticed that she was in Knight of the Comet, which have we done that movie? Did we talk about the movie? I don’t know. Oh, What’s a good one? I remembered her specifically. She was Cindy Mancini’s mom from Can’t Buy Me Love, which was a huge movie, in my childhood. And in that movie, she’s very beautiful and very I don’t want to say ditzy, she’s actually a nice character in that movie, but in this movie, she comes across as very real. You know, she’s got this very real mom, 70s, like, perm. She’s not strikingly beautiful.   She comes across, you know, as as a regular lady, and I appreciate that. In movies like Rosemary’s Baby where you’ve got Mia Farrow and and she’s so pixie like and and and beautiful, She does a great job in that movie and I love that movie Todd, but I liked in this movie that these people felt like real people, you know, like these would be your neighbors. And to see how the events of the movie affect them psychologically, I think that that was probably my favorite part of the movie Todd see how this affected them as individuals. Frank goes home, which again in today’s society, I wouldn’t expect that. You know, you would kind of expect the husband to stay with the wife through these, this traumatic experience. But no, he, you know, he goes home and he goes to work the next day, you know, he he leaves her there and eventually she comes home, and whatever. The evil baby kind of goes on a rampage, I guess, not really. I mean, we we see these, point of view shots, from the baby.   That’s the other thing Todd. We never really see it. I mean, we get some very quick glimpses of it in really dark circumstances, but we never get to see it really full on ever really. Close there towards the end we see more of it. It wasn’t that, it wasn’t seeing the baby going around and killing people, that wasn’t the part that was the most interesting to me. The part that was most interesting to me was how it affected the parents and how they dealt with it. And I I I don’t know. I just thought that was it maybe maybe an hour and a half was was too long to explore that, but I I thought it was really interesting.   And I thought that both actors, John p Ryan who played Frank and and the lady who played Leonore, I thought they they did a really good job with that. 

Todd:  I I agree with you a 100%. And it plays out in such a believable way, and it almost has to be a little slow in order to give you that that sense. Because if something like this were to happen, I I don’t know, it kinda reminded me a little bit of The Happening, you know, which I think is a kinda misunderstood movie as well. But that’s really a movie about people who are so dumbstruck by crazy things happening around them that they just literally are wandering around. They really don’t know what to do. And Yeah. This that seems pretty believable. You know, nobody’s gonna you’re not gonna band together and have this amazing plan.   Unfortunately, life is not really like a Hollywood movie. Life is pretty much like, I guess we go home now. And we wait to see what the police find. And and that’s how that’s how it happens. You know, they go home and he goes to work and his boss has this this discussion with him where he’s kind of like suggesting that he take some time off. But and you know, I mean, you can see in his face and in the boss’s face that he’s basically telling me he’s gotta let him go because the controversy around this is too great for a PR man to hold his job. 

Craig:  He’s not coming back. Yep. 

Todd:  And you just he’s just kinda dejected from that. And it’s funny, it’s not like he comes home and he sputters and and whatever. It’s like, alright. I guess I just lost my job, but let’s see how the wife is doing. I mean, he’s they keep Chris at the neighbor’s house because they really don’t know what to do with him. So he you know, it’s just like they’re they’re flying around, you know, waiting for that landing. Yeah. They’re just treading water.   And in the meantime, you see the kid kind of going around and killing some people. He kills a woman. He kills a guy in a milk truck, which is kind of a neat deal. And again, this is done in a way that, it’s not very gory. Most all the murders pretty much happen off screen because they don’t wanna shoot the kid. But it’s clever. I mean, it was neat. There’s all the spilled milk out the back, and I was like, wait for it. 

Craig:  Yep. Yep. Yeah. Red red blood with the spilled 

Todd:  milk. There we go. Yeah. But in the meantime, like you said, the father is all he knows to do is kind of disown himself from this kid. He’s talking himself into, the fact that, you know, we have no responsibility for this child. He’s not my child. And so researchers come and visit him in his house. 

Clip:  You wanna experiment on it, is that you? 

Craig:  As a 

Clip:  matter of fact, my department has already cautioned the police about excessive violence. If it could be dispatched with a bullet, or better still, some kind of a gas. Undoubtedly, it is very small, and any kind of bodily harm, especially from gunshots or explosives.   In other words, you want me, to sign away the body. Is that it?   Well, it’s your right. After all, you are the child’s father.   It’s not my child. 

Todd:  In the meantime, mom kind of comes down the stairs and overhears a little bit of this, but doesn’t quite know what’s going on. Kinda goes back upstairs, and dad says some really interesting stuff about Frankenstein. 

Clip:  When I was a kid, I always thought the monster was Frankenstein. You know, Karloff walking around in these big shoes, grunting? I thought he was Frankenstein. When I went to high school and I read the book, and I realized that Frankenstein was the doctor who created him. Somehow the identities get all mixed up, don’t they? 

Todd:  Even though he’s so steadfastly disowning the kid, there are some seeds that are being planted here where there’s a part of him that’s starting to actually feel some responsibility, and and that’s an internal struggle that he’s having. And it’s not overstated. It’s very much understated throughout the movie and I like that aspect. I think it’s what we’re talking about when we say that it’s very real. Now, you have to have a lot of patience for this because it does play out in real time. And honestly, real time is not necessarily good drama. I think it could be argued that maybe the movie is just a little long. But in the same sense, you know, we’re giving it some praise for being realistic.   So I don’t know. I’m a little conflicted as to whether or not it’s a good movie because of it. 

Craig:  Well, yeah. I I mean that’s Craig really kind of comes across as an unlikable character because of what you just said. I mean, from the very beginning, I mean, even when they’re in the hospital and the police are calling the baby an animal and he says, Well, it’s not an animal, it’s a human being, and that’s what scares you. And the doctor, the police officer, whoever it is says, Well, it kills like an animal, and therefore we’re going to have to put it down like an animal. And he says, Oh, I totally understand that. Do whatever you have to do. You know, I don’t know if it’s realistic or not, but I feel like I can understand the character motivation. You know, like he does and he keeps saying it, It’s not mine.   It’s not my flesh and blood. And you’re right. I think it’s that he just doesn’t want to accept any responsibility for this thing that everybody finds so detestable, himself included. He doesn’t want to accept any responsibility for it. Whereas, you can tell, even though it’s not overt, even though the filmmakers don’t focus on it really, you can tell that the mother feels differently. 

Clip:  Mhmm. That, 

Craig:  you know, regardless of what this child may be, it is mine. You know? Doctor. Yeah. Doctor. It is my child and I have feelings for it and I want to try to understand and I want to try to help. And, and I like that both of them kind of start to become unhinged even though they’re kind of on opposite ends of the spectrum, and you see that tension between them too. Yeah. And I like that.   That’s that’s why I appreciated the ending of the movie, which we’ll get to here in a second. But that’s why I appreciated it it so much is because, it kind of, you know, as as adamant as he has been, the dad, and as as cooperative as as he has been, and I I don’t know that I necessarily found that particularly believable. The police, the doctors, the researchers, the university, the medical researchers, everybody, their primary objective is kill it. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  Kill it, kill it, kill it. And then we’ll take care of it. I would have expected that there would have been somebody from the scientific community or something that would have thought, If we can take this thing alive, we should take it alive. But no, everybody is like, we gotta kill it, kill it, kill it. 

Todd:  Well, and they’re really pushing it, but there is a a bit of an explanation for that. In that there’s a scene, that’s pretty quick, but it’s when the, representative from the drug company flies in. It sounded like they make birth control pills. And again, this so dates the movie because this all would have been very timely. You know, matters of abortion, matters of pollution, and of course birth control pills, just a decade before this I think were even coming on the market and they were controversial. And this guy is very concerned, about the image. He just can foresee that it’s possible that they will find out that the reason that the baby was mutated or whatever is because she had been on birth control and that their pills were responsible. And he doesn’t want that to happen, so he says to one of the investigators. 

Clip:  But if there was nothing left of it, you know, we would be most grateful to you. Oh, you have, had a very successful career until this freak incident.   At the you know,   it could work out for the best. We have an opening on the board of our research and development department. We wouldn’t want people to lose faith in this, would we? 

Todd:  I mean, it’s not the reason why everybody’s pushing for it, but at least there’s kind of a reason why that guy might have pushing for it more than the others. 

Craig:  Well, and I think that the movie was trying to do that. I think that it was trying to address some timely issues. And and I feel like it maybe fell a little bit flat in that area, because it it just it just kind of felt like they were trying to insert them and and it felt like that. It felt like these things were just inserted. Like that that scene that you just mentioned, it seemed to come out of nowhere. I didn’t even know who those people were really that were talking. I mean, it was like this medical representative or something. And I get what they were going for, exactly what you said, you know, these new birth control pills, controversial, nobody really knew what the long term effects were gonna be, etcetera.   There were other things, when Frank was talking to the other dads in the waiting room, one of them was talking about how he was a exterminator. And they had come up with these chemicals that, were supposed to eliminate roaches, but really all it did was eliminate the roaches that we had, but it it it led to, 

Clip:  a 

Craig:  new, larger, more aggressive form of roaches. And so I think they were trying to say, Here’s all these things that are going on in our world that could potentially lead to this. It could be any number of things. You know, I don’t know. I would imagine that Frank would have been probably around the age that maybe, he could have served in the military, so it could have been a children of thalidomide kind of thing. Like, you know, there’s all kinds of there’s there’s all these possible explanations that they I I feel like they’re trying to say any one of these things could have led to this. It doesn’t really matter which one it was, but if this was the outcome, then how would people deal with it? If this movie were to be remade again, Because I don’t think that they addressed I don’t think they addressed any of those things, at least as far as I remember in the remake. That could be something that could be even more fleshed out as a plot element.   But then again, to be fair, you know, kind of leaving it a mystery and not pinning it down to something I think is effective too because what does it really matter? I mean, and and I didn’t know, you know, I couldn’t tell if this how serious this this movie was trying to be because really this could be a metaphor for any number of things. And at one point, you know, when the boss calls Frank in, he says, you know, these things happen. 

Clip:  You know O’Connor’s down in accounting. He’s got a retarded kid, insists on keeping him in the house too. Well, nobody thinks a thing of that. Nobody blames him. Doctor. 

Craig: 

Jack Wolfson: Hopefully, people wouldn’t say that Todd, but it’s just one of those things that if you have a child that is different for whatever reason and and there’s a stigma around that difference, how do you deal with that? I I can only imagine that it’s a challenge, for parents. And, obviously most things wouldn’t be this intense. But, I I do think that it’s a real issue that people have to deal with, you know, when when unexpected things happen. You know, whether that be, your child is born with some sort of physical or or developmental disability or or even, you know, if you have a kid and the kid is quote unquote normal and then grows up and turns out to be a monster. You know, like, it would be hard. I can only imagine as a parent to take responsibility for that. I can see how somebody like Frank would just wanna disavow it and say, This isn’t my fault. You know, I didn’t do this. 

Craig:  You can’t pin this on me. And I thought that that was an interesting, dynamic, in the movie. Of course it’s exaggerated, but you know, metaphors are exaggerated. So I I thought that was interesting. I don’t know that they were necessarily going for that or if they were, I don’t know that they were necessarily successful, you know, in this type of B movie. But I could see how it could bring up real life questions. And and I did appreciate that. 

Todd:  I I did Todd. You know, I think that you bring up a really interesting point here, and that it can be really read 2 ways for the the film, and it’s hard to know what was intended. But I think this is definitely a movie that you can either see as a Todd, kind of sensational B type movie that just goes on a little too long. Because it has that feel to it with the score and with the absurdness of it all and like you said, some of the character decisions don’t make a lot of sense the people it’s kind of a black and white where these guys wanna kill it and and, you know, the parents are, you know, and they’re pushing the parents to kill it. There’s a big chase scene kind of at the end, it goes on a while. There are all these POV shots of the of the of the baby and it, you know, kills a bunch of people as it goes on. But then if you want to read this deeper, there is a lot of depth that can be read into it, in everything that we’ve talked about. And these lines that seemingly throw our throw away.   It may be just a skilled writer who’s intentionally inserting those things in to kind of bring you, whether you know it or not, to the point where we were by the end of the movie. I think all those little things kind of have an effect on you. And if that’s the case, and that wasn’t an accident, it’s really good writing. Things come home for them quite literally because, the baby makes it to the son’s school, and Frank and so, you know, Frank goes with the police, to the school, because there’s been a break in there, and it kills somebody there. But Frank even mentions, he’s like, my you know, this my son goes to school here. And, the cops, like, are does that bother you? And he’s like, well, yeah. It kinda bothered me. Because what we’re getting an idea of is maybe this baby is actually smart. 

Clip:  You know? 

Todd:  Maybe this baby knows. And so he goes home that night and we get a very long, drawn out sequence where he goes to the fridge and a whole bunch of the milk’s been dropped. So he goes and he asks his wife, like, is Chris home? He doesn’t ask her directly, hey, did you drink a bunch of milk? 

Craig:  Right. Which wouldn’t 

Todd:  have been a smart thing to do, but, hey, you know, has has Chris been home? She’s, like, doesn’t really give him a clear answer. So he goes upstairs, and he sees that Chris’s room has been trashed. He says, Chris, are you hiding? And then he goes downstairs and asks her, you know, I told you not to lie to me. And again, she’s really not giving a straight answer. This is the point where she’s clearly coming unhinged. And then you’re starting to wonder, wait a minute. Does she know the baby’s in the house and she’s purposely trying to protect it? It turned you know, he called the neighbor, and they were like, yeah. Chris has been here the whole time.   So then he starts prowling around, but at the same time, Chris immediately breaks out and starts to run home. So, you know, they’re trying to make this convergence, which which in a modern movie would have been a probably pretty intense, pretty fast moving type sequence. But in this film, it’s it’s rather slow and plodding, and it’s like, come on, Frank. Flip on some lights. Stop prowling around the house. Get your wife. If you’re worried about, about something beating in there, call the cops or get out of there. You know? Right.   Somehow the kid goes in man, the the baby ends up in the basement. It’s kind of a magic baby in a way. First, it’s in the Todd’ room, then it’s in the living room, and it sneaks right up on them, but they’re right there, kind of like, you know, we talked about the poppets last week, like, oh, please. Somebody’s gonna see this baby running around if we correlate the POV shots with, you know, what’s happening about seconds later. But anyway, yeah, he’s in the basement. The kid somehow was up in the basement. Chris, and I’m not quite sure how he didn’t just walk in the front door. 

Craig:  Right. Why he did it? It doesn’t really make any sense why he didn’t just come in the front door. I I I don’t know if he’s just sneaking in or whatever, but, yeah, he comes through the basement. And and what has happened is that Leonor does know, that the baby’s there, and and she is coming unhinged. And she even says to Frank, as as Frank kind of realizes, you know, he sees he goes up and looks in the the son’s room and it’s all kinda messed up. And so he comes down and and he sees Lenore coming out of the basement and she closes the door like she’s hiding something and he says, what are you hiding down there? And she says, you know. And we see that Chris has snuck into the house through the basement. And this was kind of an interesting part too because the the baby is down there.   And again, we really haven’t seen much of it. But Chris immediately, like, bonds with it and says something like, it’s okay. Don’t be scared. I’ll take care of you. But at the same time, Charlie, the neighbor, bursts in through the outside door. The dad comes in through the the door that’s connected to the inside of the house, and the baby attacks Charlie. And and what we’re led to believe, I think, throughout the whole course of the movie and what they I think they try to really nail home, at the end is that the baby attacks out of fear. It’s not just inherently malicious.   It’s afraid and it’s scared and that’s why it attacks. And it attacks Charlie and the dad shoots it. Frank shoots it. He shoots at it several times, but he says, I’m almost positive I hit it. And as it turns out, he did. 

Todd:  Before we go on to this last bit, I just have to mention that there’s a point in this movie that that where the film really started to bother me. And that was that moment in the basement. And it’s something that Leonor, says to Frank. Aft it’s just before Frank shoots him. She’s pleading with him not to to do anything. 

Clip:  Frank, Frank, he could’ve killed you if you were upstairs sleeping. He could’ve killed you. You know why he didn’t 

Todd:  That line just, like, suddenly really got 

Craig:  to me. 

Todd:  And I and I and I just my wife is in the room. I just turned her and I said, oh my gosh. This is really this is really sad. And, Yeah. And and I don’t know if it’s just because, like, suddenly I kinda hit home because I’m a new I’m a new father, and I just immediately placed myself in that position. But it’s like, yeah. Everything you said, the the it’s clear at that moment because of the the this baby will attack anything that it comes close 

Craig:  to. Right. 

Todd:  But it doesn’t attack the kid, it doesn’t attack the mom, and it doesn’t attack the dad. And so you can see that it’s it’s hoping to be for dad to swoop down and 

Craig:  Todd pick 

Todd:  him up in his arms. You know? Right. And then dad shoots it. Yep. I was like, oh my gosh. It just really bothered me. It bothered me a lot. Yeah.   And I didn’t expect that. 

Craig:  It it it’s almost small. I know. It was unexpected, and I kinda felt the same way. And I felt the same way moving forward, as well. And and I I did think of you. So so he he shoots it, but it’s not dead. But because it has been injured, then it’s bleeding, so they can track it. And they track it to the sewers, and and they figure out, oh, that’s how it’s been able to get all around town without people knowing or or seeing it.   And there’s this whole big chase where Frank wants to go with them. And one of the police guys says to him, You feel like you have to be the one that does it, don’t you? And he says, Yes, I’m gonna do it. And he and the cop is like, did you see it? And he said, no, it was too dark. I couldn’t really get a glimpse, but I know that when I see it, I’ll be able to do it. And then there’s this whole chase, through the sewers where like the cops are driving their cars through the sewers and stuff. It’s all, you know, super intense. And they give Frank this big rifle. Everybody’s searching around.   Frank somehow ends up on his own, and he’s searching around, and he is the one that finds the baby. And then, like, I I said way earlier, you know, I thought this movie was kind of plotting. I I didn’t know that I was all that much into it. And then there was this scene and it just kind of floored me. And it really kind of broke my heart, like, almost to the part, to the point where I wanted to cry a little bit. Because, Frank finds the baby and he shines his flashlight on the baby and the baby is just huddled in a corner, injured and scared and crying like a baby. And that finally gets to him. He says, I know it hurts, but everything is gonna be alright.   I was scared like you are. And and as he’s saying this, he starts to cry and like, I didn’t like this guy. You know, I was really mad at this guy throughout the whole course of the movie. And then at this point, I started thinking, Todd, maybe I judged him too harshly. You know, maybe he this was a really, really terrible, terrible situation for him to find himself in and he didn’t know how to react and his reactions were, you know, it was just this kind of natural reaction, this kind of natural disgust, this kind of push it away. This isn’t me. This isn’t mine. I don’t wanna be connected to it.   I don’t wanna be responsible for it. And then when he finally sees the baby for the first time, he feels that connection and and he wants to protect, the baby and that’s what he does. You know, he picks it up and wraps it up in his his jacket and tries to run away, and protect it from the police. And I was surprised how moved I was, by that moment and how in that moment I kinda felt like that character came to a realization, like, what have I done? And and it was it it it I was surprised by how sad it made me. Yeah. 

Todd:  I was too. And I was crying actually at that point. I really was. I couldn’t believe that the movie got to that point. And, and, you know, you can see it coming. I knew this was gonna happen. I I I really did. I really felt like there was gonna be a moment because it’s very cinematic.   And also because it’s it’s, you know, it’s kind of Frankenstein. Well, except Frank, you know, by that point at the end of the of the book, Frankenstein really wants to kill a monster. 

Craig:  But, but 

Todd:  but, you know, I expected there to be this moment in the movie. I did not expect it to to bother me as much as it did. And I think that scene, it just lingers so long on dad, and then the acting, I think, is fantastic. And it’s not afraid Bless that record’s heart. He was not afraid to take his time with this scene and let it linger. And then the actors’ tears came, and they came up at the right moments, and it’s just a really skillfully simple, simple, but skillfully done scene. Yeah. And I was into it the whole time.   They had me hook a line and sinker. And you just like you, I I had a whole new appreciation for everything that came before it, I think. Because you’re right. You kinda hate this guy, and and it’s amazing that the turnaround that you get at this point. But but if you look back, it was signaled. I mean, you can you can look back and see points at which oh, yeah. You can see the the inner turmoil that he was feeling that led up to it. So it made perfect sense.   It did come out of left of left field. 

Craig:  Yeah. And I and I think that that is gosh. I’m gonna go ahead and get all deep here, but I, I, I think that that is something that probably a lot of people have experienced with, either their children or their parents, where there’s just something that that keeps you separated. You know? There there there’s something that causes this distance between parents and children sometimes, whatever it may be. Whether it may be just, you know, a kid didn’t turn out the way that their parents had hoped. Like, you know, the kid didn’t want to carry on dad’s business or whatever, or or any number of things. But then I think that there are times in life where then there’s just this realization, Todd doesn’t matter. It’s my kid, and I love my kid no matter what.   And no matter what it is that I have a problem with, when it comes right down to it, it’s my kid and I love my kid and I want to protect my kid. And and I I I maybe that’s why it resonates not only with you as a new dad or or or me for whatever reason, but, I think that we can all under we can all appreciate that and and it it’s strange to find a moving moment like that, in a stupid b movie a stupid b movie about a killer baby. And I’m sitting here almost getting choked up about it now, and that’s so dumb. But but, you know, I I think that it is something we can all relate to. And when, you know, when he sees the baby, it is monstrous. You know, like, it’s got, like, these big talon claws, and it’s got, like, these fangs. But at the same time, it’s small and vulnerable, and you can tell that it’s scared. And it’s it’s it it is sad, you know? I can under I I understand why you cried.   I’m surprised I didn’t. I running away from the police and and they’re, you know, in hot pursuit. And he eventually gets out of the sewers, but the cops are just there waiting for him and Leonor is there and upset and and, you know, all these police have their guns trained on him and they’re saying drop it, drop it. And he’s saying, no, it it’s injured. It it it can’t hurt anybody. He says, lock it up, study it, just don’t kill it. And the cops are all standing around there. And I’m not sure, I feel like I was supposed to remember who this character was, but I didn’t.   There’s one character who’s, like, in a suit, and he’s he’s just going, kill it, kill it, kill it, kill it now. Like, he doesn’t they don’t even care that, you know, if they have to shoot Frank in the process, they will. And this one guy is chanting basically, kill it, kill it. And so Frank takes the baby and throws it on that guy who is saying, kill it. Kill it. Kill it. And the cops shoot, the baby and that guy, and they’re both dead. I that was 

Todd:  a little unrealistic that that bit. And I’m sure the cops are on the fire on people, you know, even if there’s, but yeah. I I kinda roll my eyes at that part. But 

Craig:  Well, you’re right. And, I mean, at this point, it’s like we’ve gotta you you knew I couldn’t imagine that they were just gonna take the baby away. It feels very much like a tragedy. Doctor. Yeah. Doctor. The whole thing feels like a tragedy. And so I knew that it had to end tragically, and I knew that the baby was gonna die.   And and that’s what happens. And then Frank and Lenore, are reunited. You know, she’s kinda standing right outside of a cop car. You know, just such subtle things that I’m surprised to find in this type of movie. You know, Frank kind of walks up to her and they don’t say anything, but you can just see in her face that while she’s devastated, she’s resigned to how this has turned out. Like, it’s over. You know, like, she’s devastated, but it’s over. And and they just get in the back seats together and they’re just sitting there quietly.   And the cop in the front seat who’s, I don’t know, the commander or something, he gets a call on his private line, and, he takes the call and he’s like, uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And then he hangs up, and then he just says, Another one’s been born in Seattle. And then they drive away and that’s it and that’s the end. And I kinda saw that coming Todd. You know? Like, that this that this wasn’t gonna be an isolated thing. And maybe I saw it coming because I read the descriptions of the of the sequels.   And I guess I guess in the second sequel, it’s kind of about how this has become an epidemic. Like, these babies are being born all over the place and how they deal with that. And the 3rd sequel is called Island of the Alive, and I guess they they round up all these babies and, like, they put them on this deserted island and, like, these human rights activists, like, band together to go rescue them or something. 

Todd:  Oh, well, you start with a goofy premise. 

Craig:  It’s it’s weird. You know? Like you said earlier, like, it seems like a made for TV movie. I don’t know if things changed at some point in the seventies, but, like, the credits come up and all we we get the cast and then the production company, and then that’s it. There’s, like, 15 seconds of of credits. So it did kind of feel like a TV movie, in that regard. But, as much as I was looking at my watch and maybe kind of checking in on Facebook every once in a while while I was watching the movie, the end really left me kind of troubled. Like, I finished it. My partner doesn’t watch these movies with me because he is not interested at all.   But, so so I was watching it in the living room, and I I walked back into the bedroom where he was watching TV, and I was like, that was a pretty stupid movie, but, like, now I’m really sad. So so, you know, I don’t know. It’s it’s difficult for me to evaluate because on the whole, I would say, I don’t know. It was alright. It was kind of a typical B movie, but there was something about the ending that really kind of gut punched me. And I guess you gotta give credit for that. I mean, it affected me more than a lot of movies that I see. 

Todd:  No. Same here, man. And I thought maybe it was just because, you know, I’ve got a kid who who woke up crying for something, you know, just minutes after the movie. And 

Craig:  I I 

Todd:  I think it’s Bob, and I looked at him with a whole new light. I was like, wow. You’re I’m glad you turned out the way you did. 

Craig:  I actually 

Todd:  said that to him. So that’s funny. But, you know, we do I know, and it’s funny 

Craig:  to talk about some of these 

Todd:  other things because that is something that kinda goes through your your head, as a parent. Even, you know, stuff I thought about even before I was a parent. But, you know, you always imagine that your kid’s gonna be great. But, you know, what what it must be like to have a child who ends up in jail because they killed somebody or completely wrecked their life somehow. It doesn’t have to be that they’re a monster, you know. They’re just things just go wrong. Yeah. They’re people and people are people.   Everybody’s got a mother, you know. So Right. Right. Yeah. It it it does it does cause some pause, as dumb as as it seems that you would be, that a movie like this would affect you in that way and cause you to ask those questions. Hey. It just it really did. I was I was just as shocked as you.   Alright. Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend. You can find us on iTunes, Stitcher, and Google Play. You can also find us on Facebook where we have a page. Let us know what you thought there, like us, tell us what you think of this movie, and of course, recommend any other film that you like us to do. 

Craig:  Until next time, 

Todd:  I’m Todd And I’m Craig. With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.