Hostel (2005)

Episode 65, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Craig:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig. 

Todd:  And I’m Todd. 

Craig:  At the end of every podcast, we ask our listeners if they would like to recommend any movies for us to, watch and talk about. And frankly, we don’t get a whole lot of response, and that’s alright. But, we have had a couple of people request the 2,005 film Hostel, directed by Eli Roth, produced by Quentin Tarantino. And so we thought we would give that one a go this week. Todd, what was your what’s your history with this movie? 

Todd:  Oh, I’m pretty sure I saw Hostel in the theater when it came out. It did have a little bit of buzz around it. I didn’t know much about Eli Roth at the time. I hadn’t seen Cabin Fever yet. But, of course, I’m a big Quentin Tarantino fan, and I knew the story behind this, that he and Tarantino had been looking at this idea or of this murder for murder for pay or kinda murder shopping mall kind of thing. I think at one time, the story was that Eli Roth himself was looking for to do a documentary about this kind of thing, but Uh-huh. Either couldn’t dig anything up or was too scared to or was worried that if he did, then he would, get targeted himself, and so decided to turn into a horror movie. I think the story I remember reading at the time was just that he had this idea that was really crazy, and he took it to Quentin Tarantino.   And he said, you’re right. That’s really crazy. You should totally make that movie, and I’ll go ahead and produce it. 

Craig:  Yeah. Right. Yeah. That’s what I that’s what I read too when I was reading about this today, and I I I guess that, Eli Roth actually found, like, a, a Thai, website that was, offering this kind of thing. Like, you could come to this place and and pay, I don’t remember how much it was, like, 10,000 American dollars or something and that would buy you the ability to murder somebody. And he showed that website to Tarantino and they talked about it and they decided to to make this movie. Neither one of them knows if that was actually a real website or not, but they were fascinated with the idea. Yeah.   I I think that I saw this movie. I don’t remember if I saw it in the theater, but I know I saw it around the time that it came out. And this was a time in horror, where there was really a lot of emphasis on really brutal violence and gore. You know, the Saw films were doing well. I think, right around this time, maybe just shortly after the Hills Have Eyes remake came out, and it was really brutal as was its sequel. And, for whatever reason, it was just a trend that came along and lasted probably for a good decade or so. I feel like you and I have talked about this before. I know that you’re not a fan of movies like Wolf Creek and that type of thing.   So what but I know that you are also a huge fan of the soft franchise. So what were I mean, what do you think about this whole subgenre? 

Todd:  This subgenre that a lot of people call torture porn, I think as we see a lot of them, we see a wide range. We see a wide range of these kind of movies. We see movies that I think are smart, that have something to say, that are really interesting and captivating, that happen to have a lot of this kind of stuff in it, where just this really brutal thing people doing terrible things to each other, and which we then get to see in more excruciating detail than we used to. But then, on the other hand, we see movies that seem to just want to do that. They’re just putting it in there. It’s just a special effects extravaganza, really, and, trying to see how far they can go, but they don’t really have anything to say. And I think what I really liked about Saw, for example, not that it really had anything to say, but, what saw what saw really did well was it had all those puzzles. And part of the entertaining thing about watching saw was that you knew there was always going to be some crazy twist at the end.   And with every successive of movie, you’re wondering, geez, how how are they gonna do this so that I can’t it’s it was almost like, there for a while, we had we had M. Night Shyamalan, where every movie he came out with, we were all excited to see because we knew there’d be some crazy twist, and we knew we’d spend half the movie trying to figure out what that was going to be. And the puzzles were fun. It was neat to see these different crazy convoluted as it convoluted as it could be, behind, Jigsaw’s madness here, where he was trying to teach them a lesson. And so that’s what I really liked about that franchise. And, so I could put up with it, and I was I was totally fine with it. I felt that the brutality didn’t of course, it didn’t necessarily need to be there. It never needs to be there, but it did serve a purpose.   This movie, I’d put in the same category, really, at least the first one. And I was a little surprised by that because, I remembered this movie actually as being a lot more brutal than it turned out to be. And I think I’ve just been so desensitized and deadened by what has come out since then, that this movie truly isn’t quite as brutal as the quote, unquote torture porn films that have come out later. So when I went back to watch this, and this is probably only the second time I’ve seen this movie, I think I think since 2006, you know, 10 years ago. And when I came back to it this time, I realized, well, not only is it not nearly as brutal as I thought it, as I remembered it being, but it also had something to say. It’s pretty obvious about what it says, but it sure is kind of interesting social commentary on what is the difference here between what these guys are doing when they are tripping around Europe and Amsterdam, and what these guys end up becoming victim to when they themselves, go a little too far, in looking for their their, sort of, their pleasure, their sex, and and their all that at a price. And I I honestly didn’t remember that. I don’t think I I think that went right over my head 10 years ago, maybe, or at least that’s sort of how I recall it. 

Craig:  Well, I think it may have gone over my head this time. You know, now that you say that, I that that makes sense. You know, it’s really it’s a movie about exploitation, and and to what degree is exploitation okay, I guess, and, you know, where where do we draw the line? I remember, you know, when we decided to do this, I haven’t seen it in a really long time. I’ve seen it more than once, but it’s been a really long time. And I remember that in 2005, I thought this was a good movie. I enjoyed it. I think that maybe, like you said, we’ve kind of been desensitized, and and so now even though this was one of the first ones of its of its type, to me watching it this time around, it felt a little tired. Like, I I I’ve I’ve kinda seen it before, you know.   I’ve I’ve seen people getting tortured and and hacked up and, I don’t know. My experience with it, this time around wasn’t quite as positive. I don’t think it’s a bad movie. I actually think that it’s really well made, especially, you know, if this was only Roth’s, what, his second directing film? For that, I think, you know, he he did a good job. The the cinematography is good. The the pacing is pretty good. The acting is certainly not bad. Most of the actors here were not established actors and and some of them, most of them haven’t really done a whole lot, after this as far as I could tell.   But, you know, that that all was, fine. I think that what put me off of it this time was I kinda forgot what a dude bro movie this is. Like, this this this seems to be targeted at a population of horror fans that I’m really not. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  You know, this is this is this is kind of like a very macho, frat guy kind of movie, and you know, I can appreciate other points of view. I can appreciate other people’s lifestyles and whatnot. It’s just so far removed from who I am and the, you know, the the type of people I surround myself with that it just I I felt like I was not the target audience for this movie. But, you know, to be fair, there certainly is that audience out there. 

Todd:  So what I guess what you’re saying is you didn’t really empathize with the characters as much as you as you remember doing? Like, you saw these guys, and at the end of the day, you almost didn’t care if they got what was coming to them? 

Craig:  You know, I don’t know. I mean, I wouldn’t say that they’re bad guys. The the the movie opens up with a credit sequence, and it’s all dark and grimy, and it, you know, it looks like a dirty warehouse and there’s, like, torture instruments and stuff. You know what kind of movie you’re getting into. And the campaign, the advertising campaign for this movie made it very clear exactly what it was going to be. And, then we get to our 3 main characters. Paxton played by Jay Hernandez, Josh played by Derek Richardson, and, Ollie played by an Icelandic guy whose name I’m not even gonna attempt. And and these 3 guys, it’s not that they’re unlikable guys.   They’re really not. They’re just I am so not like them. I mean, these are guys, they’re they’re in Amsterdam. They’re staying in a hostel and they’re going around doing all the very stereotypical American things to do in Amsterdam. And they even have a conversation about it where one of them says something like, Did we come all the way to Amsterdam just to smoke weed? We did that all through college, can’t we find something else to do? But they don’t. I mean, they just do all the typical stuff. They go to a coffee shop, a smoke shop. They go to a nightclub.   You know, they’re hitting on girls left and right, especially Ollie. Ollie seems to be kind of the ladies man, of of the group. They go to the red light district, and they go to, whorehouse, and, you know, there’s some pretty graphic sexual stuff going on there so much. I had forgotten how much nudity there was in the first half of this movie. Like, just everybody is naked all the time for the first, at least, half hour of this movie. And I’ve been to Amsterdam. I didn’t do all of those things, but, you know, I get it. I I get the the touristy thing, and I get that they’re guys.   They’re, you know, Paxton and Josh are red blooded American guys. Ollie’s, you know, just a a a guy’s guy. I I get that. So it’s not like I didn’t like the characters. I thought they were pretty likable guys, but they make some pretty, foolish decisions. First of all, they’re, you know, they’re drunk, they’re stoned. They’re late, getting back to their hostel, and hostels have curfews. And if you don’t make the curfew, you’re just locked out for the night, and that’s what ends up happening.   And so they’re kinda outside the hostel yelling and screaming, and and people are leaning out of their apartments yelling at them and throwing bottles at them for making so much noise in the middle of the night. And they get called up into this apartment, where there’s a couple who are having sex, who are apparently so stoned that they’re just oblivious that there are even other people around, and they meet this guy named Alex. And Alex, you know, kinda starts chumming with them or whatever, asking them what they’re doing. And and he says, well, if you’re looking for girls, I can tell you where to find the best girls. 

Clip:  These girls I met at this one hostel in Slovakia, just outside Bratislava. The girls there are so hot. You cannot believe it. And they love anyone for it, especially American. They hear your ex and they fuck you.   So wait. This this place is is near Bratislava? Josh,   you won’t find this hostel in any guidebook. Barcelona. So many Americans. But Slovakia, no one there. There is so much pussy, and because of the war, there are no guys. You go to this hostel, you will have any girl you want. They go crazy for any foreigner. You just 

Craig:  take 10. 

Todd:  Yeah. It’s interesting. This really plays to a fantasy. I’ve I’ve been I’ve done quite a bit of traveling Todd. I’ve lived overseas, I’m living overseas now. And this notion that because you’re foreign, women are going to be super attracted to you and interested to you because you’re the outsider. That is legitimately something that exists. I mean, there are always women attracted to foreigners, no matter what country you’re in, or men attracted for you know, whatever.   But when you’re traveling, there is a certain, that’s always kind of in the back of your mind, like, oh, how do these people find me attractive, and you know, how could I get lucky here or whatever, and without consequence, right? Because especially when you’re traveling, you know that whatever you do, you’re gonna go home and you’re never gonna see these people again, you’re never gonna see this thing again. And so I can understand the feeling that these guys have. It’s really interesting that here they are, they’ve been backpacking all over Europe, and not only are they taking advantage of all the pleasures in Amsterdam or whatever, but they actually decide to change their plans just to seek out this hostel. I mean, that’s how, like, dude bro these guys are. Right? 

Craig:  Right. Well, and it’s funny that you say that. I haven’t done nearly as much traveling as you have, but I see, I I thought that that part of the movie, the that part of the premise was so stupid. I thought, you know, none of these guys are bad guys. They’re all good looking guys, but these women that they encounter are all, like, supermodel gorgeous. Like, you know, big big fake boobs, totally, you know, teeny waist, you know, just these these gorgeous, gorgeous women. And the notion that these women would be throwing themselves at these guys just seemed ridiculous to me. It’s funny to hear that that’s actually a thing. 

Todd:  Well, it is a thing, but, again, it’s never happened to me. It’s but it happens to people. I mean, I have friends who are like this, who just love tripping around, and it’s like sex tourism, except they’re not paying for it. You know, they, they live in a country abroad and, and, and they’re always getting laid. But the fact that this movie really plays to that fantasy, I think is interesting, and I think is part of what makes the movie a little terrifying. Like if you were a guy like this, and if this was in the either part of your reason for travel or at least in the back of your mind, like, hey, maybe this could happen when I when I’m when I’m out and about. If you experience just a little bit of this when you’re out and abroad, then this movie is gonna pop into your head. You know? And it’s it’s gonna make you think twice about all this.   Like, why is this really beautiful woman really, really, coming on to me? 

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, it it is kind of scary in that if this were to happen manipulate somebody, and that’s exactly what happens to them really. I I guess it’s to manipulate somebody and that’s exactly what happens to them really. I I guess it’s important that you when they’re on the train ride there, this guy, this older guy comes into their car, He’s just credited as Dutch businessman. He’s never given a name. He’s this older guy, you know, average looking, older middle aged guy. And he sits down and he’s talking to him and it’s, you know, just casual, not really anything weird. The only weird thing about it is he pulls out this bowl of salad, like, from his briefcase and starts eating it with his fingers, which they think is is weird.   And then he appears to kind of hit on Josh. Now Josh is the guy in the group who’s more reticent. We’ve seen both of the other 2 getting it on with girls, sometimes both of them together with the same girl, but Josh has always pulled back. And it’s not that he hasn’t had the opportunity, he has, but he has shied away from it for whatever reason. And we see this I guess the reason that they give is that he has just recently, broken up with a girlfriend and he’s still trying to get over that. But this weird guy as he’s talking, he’s saying something about human nature, how it’s it’s human nature to eat meat or something along those lines, and he’s talking weird stuff about your relationship with your food and and that kind of stuff. And and, he says something like, what’s your nature? And he grabs Josh’s leg, and it seems like a pass. And and Josh takes it as a pass and kinda freaks out.   And, so the guy, he just gets up and and walks away quickly. And the other 2, Paxton and Ollie, you know, Rip, Josh, for finally getting some action on the trip and and whatnot. And and it doesn’t really seem all that significant, but of course, why would we be introduced to this character if we’re gonna come back around later? And of course, it does. But they get to where they’re going, wherever this is in Slovakia. And when they pull into the train station, it looks totally shady. Like, this would not be a train station that I would wanna get off on. Like, if if this were my destination and we I pulled up and this is what it looked like, I might consider just staying on the train and taking my chances later on down the line. But when they walk through the town, the town actually is pretty beautiful.   It’s like, you know, all these red roofed buildings. Yeah and cool architecture and stone streets and, when they get to the hostel, it’s super, super nice. Like it’s not like it I’ve never actually stayed in a hostel. When I was in Amsterdam, we were just there on like an overnight trip and it was a bank holiday and, we couldn’t get a hostel. We walked around all day trying to get one, couldn’t ever get one, ended up sleeping in the airport. But even just you know walking around Amsterdam looking at these hostels, they’re usually pretty run down places and this place is luxurious. So right away it kind of seems strange, you know, why would there be this luxurious hostel in this far off exotic place that’s kind of off the map? It’s certainly probably not a big tourist place. But of course, you know, they’re just they’re just thrilled.   And again, something else, this is, it’s so entrenched in 2005 because they keep, Paxton refers to everything. Oh, that’s so gay. That’s so gay. And he’s calling everybody fags. And, you know, I I think in 2,005, I was kinda desensitized to that. Now that we’re in off putting to me. But, they they find out they’re gonna have to have roommates, and and Paxon says, oh, that’s so gay. But then when they walk into their room, they find out that it’s not so gay after all.   Yeah. 

Todd:  When they walk in the door, there are these 2 absolutely gorgeous women who are topless in the middle of of changing. And, they’re like, what? And we’re like, what? And, they walk by and say, we’re going to the spa. You can, once you join us there. And when and so the hostel has a spa, again, super luxurious. And when they go to the spa, like, they walk in the door, and it’s it’s set up almost like a painting. They’re just like the camera sweeps across and it’s all women, right? Maybe a couple men 

Clip:  in there, 

Todd:  but mostly all women, completely naked, walking around, all beautiful. And the 2 of them end up in the sauna with these girls who are now their roommates, who are not at all interested in covering up. 

Craig:  Natalia is a beautiful both these women are just gorgeous. Natalia is, a brunette, and I think Svetlana is the other one, and she’s blonde. She’s blonde. Both of them gorgeous. 

Todd:  They are just flirting with them, and they’re flirting back, and they’re having a lot of fun, and it’s it’s funny because this never happens, like, in real life. Like, major warning bells should be going off for these guys at this time. But, again, this plays to that fantasy, and they’re getting exactly what was promised to them. And so they’re very excited about it, but be careful what you wish for. If it seems too good to be true. So they basically spend a few more scenes just hanging out with these girls. They go to the clubs with them, and Ollie’s there, and Ollie’s having a good time. 

Craig:  I knew that they were in trouble when they were in the the club with these girls. Now, you know, the girls seemed really friendly, and they’re just hanging out, you know, it’s not nothing really out of the ordinary there. But the blonde ones, Svetlana, pulls out a pill and and puts it in Paxton’s mouth, and then we see that all that both of the other guys end up getting pills too. And, you know, I get it that, you know, they’re out, they’re partying, you know, this is kinda what they’re out there for, but taking a pill from somebody you just met, in a foreign country, it doesn’t get much more naive and stupid than that. And you’re kind of asking for it, frankly, if that’s if that’s what you’re going for. And, you know, I don’t know what it was. You know, I I assume it was supposed to be ecstasy. It loosens the the guys up, and you’re right.   Then they then they all come back to the to the hostel, and Josh and Paxton are in one room with, Natalia and Svetlana, and they’re having sex. And Ollie has picked up another girl at the club, and they end up going into another room. And it looks like, like you just said, I mean, it looks like their fantasy has come true, like, everything they have been promised has come true. And they wake up in the morning, and everything seems fine, but they realize that Ollie’s bed, hasn’t been slept in. Or or either that or he’s gotten up and made it and left, and and and they don’t know where it is. And that’s kinda where things start to get, a little scary. 

Todd:  Yeah. They’re really interested in finding Ollie, and it really bothers them. I guess they’ve been with him for a while, and they’re trying to justify, well, you know, he is just a guy we met as we went along, and they even get a texted picture of him with a Japanese girl who we had seen very briefly in an earlier scene. And her name was Kana, and she was there with another friend of hers. And, it says, we’ve gone, we’ve left, we’ve gone away, which is very strange because I don’t think the 2 of them were really together at any point. They didn’t seem interested in each other. So it did this does this does seem very strange to them, but they’re and they’re not they’re not willing to just write this off and go on. I mean, they kinda continue to do their thing, but they’re they’re a lot more uneasy.   And, to their credit, at least, they recognize that as being strange. At least they’re starting to become a little more cautious now. 

Craig:  Yeah. And and Josh, I think, is a little bit more concerned. I mean, they’re both concerned, but, you know, Paxton says, you know, we don’t really know him. He could have just gone on. He says, you know, we’re American. We don’t do that kind of thing, but these Europeans, that’s they’re used to it. They travel all over the place. They, you know, just pack up on a whim and and go wherever they want.   So maybe it’s no big deal. The only really thing they’re searching for him basically, and and that’s that’s probably, I don’t know, a good 10 minute clip of the movie where they’re searching around. And, as they’re walking down the street, I I don’t remember if last time that I saw this that I I considered the significance. It just seemed to kinda come out of the blue. But Paxton, just out of the blue, tells this story about how when he was a kid well, maybe not a kid, but at at some point in his life, he had, seen a little girl drown. 

Clip:  I ran to the life guard who was busy talking to her boyfriend at the time, and I yelled. You know, there’s this girl drowning. And, she couldn’t see her from the tower and probably thought I was making it up. And then, like, a second later, all you can hear was this horrible screaming. It was that little girl’s mother, dude. The kid was dead. Jesus. Yeah.   I had nightmares for years after that. I mean, I’d wake up every night hearing that mother scream. Just I just felt like I could’ve done more to save that girl. 

Craig:  And it seems in the context of the scene, totally random. Yeah. But it it kind of, yeah. It it it kind of plays out later. And they they’re walking the streets, they see a guy in Ollie’s coat. For whatever reason, this guy, like, slips into a torture museum. They walk through a torture museum. 

Todd:  That’s so silly. That that Yeah. Is so goofy. I don’t know, and this is just a guy wearing Ollie’s coat, and I think we’re supposed to figure out later on that maybe he was, the one who killed Ollie, or at least he was involved in somehow, in the whole process of, collecting Ollie for this for this thing. But the fact that he’s walking around and he goes into a torture museum, and he pops out just as soon as he popped in, and I mean, he’s presumably a local, it’s it’s so contrived. I thought that was a little goofy. And and and it’s funny because as he’s chasing him into this museum, they really play up this museum Todd. It’s a wax museum, and instead of really running through it to find this guy, suddenly he stops and starts looking at the exhibits and making comments on them and things.   Yeah. I thought it was a real clunky part of the movie. It would have been better if he’d just seen a guy in a coat and tried to chase him down, and when he put his arm on his shoulder and turn him around, he wasn’t Ollie. You know? 

Craig:  Well and I I thought that right. I thought that there might be maybe somehow that this torture museum was in some way tied to this other organization that we’re gonna find out about later, but it apparently isn’t. So, yeah, I mean, it Todd just seem, clunky. 

Todd:  And it’s it’s also this, like, extremely touristy kind of attraction in what is supposed to be this far flung town that nobody visits, which also seemed really out of place. I mean, this is the sort of thing this is like Madame Tussauds you’d find on, you know, on Right. San Francisco or someplace. It’s and and it was just right in an alley, fully staffed and manned and extremely elaborate in the middle again of what’s supposed to be this Slovakian town that almost nobody goes Todd. So that also felt really false to me. It was weird. Right. 

Craig:  And then so they confront this guy, and this guy is kinda standoffish, like, this is my code. I don’t know what you’re talking about. And then right after that, they get a text from Ollie that looks kinda like a selfie, like it’s a super up close selfie, and it just said, I went home. And of course, they’re confused by that, but then we get to see the source of the text, and we’re back in that grimy place from the credit sequence, and we it pulls back from Ollie’s face, and we see that it’s his decapitated head. So Ollie’s dead, and and we know that now, and we know what the danger is. We also see that, whoever this is in this torture place has that Japanese girl that’s missing too, and we see him, like, cut off her toe with, like, some gardening shears. So if we hadn’t if we didn’t if we hadn’t come into this movie already knowing exactly what to expect, now they’re they’re just throwing it right in our face. This is what it is.   They’re still worried about Ollie, but they run into the girls again, Natalia and Svetlana, and they’re the girls are going off to the club and want the guys to go with them, but Josh says, no. I just wanna wait for my friend and then get out of here. But Paxton says something along the lines of, look. We could sit here and wait for him and then leave for Spain in the morning, or we could go out and get laid one more time and then leave for Spain in the morning anyway. You know, why waste this opportunity? So they do go out again with them, and this time the scene is much shorter. We see both of the girls, each of them give their respective guy a shot, and they take the shot. And right away, Josh starts feeling bad. I mean, this was it’s obviously roofies.   You know, they’ve roofied these guys. Josh, he heads home. He hit or back to the hostel, where he’s met by the desk clerk, female desk clerk, and she helps him into his room. But then when she leaves, as he’s passing out, she pauses in the doorway, and we can just see her feet, and her feet are then joined by a man’s pair of feet. So we know there’s something going on there. Paxton kinda lucks out because he tells the girls that he’s going to the bathroom, and he goes to try to find the bathroom, but instead of finding the bathroom, he finds, like, a storage closet or something like that. He accidentally gets locked in there, and and that really, I I think, is the only thing that saved him. 

Todd:  Do you think that was an accident? Because the the DJ, I think, is the one there’s like a DJ there, and he’s the one who ends up putting his equipment in front of the door, and he exchanges some looks with Natalia or Svetlana or one of the girls in there. There are, like, some knowing looks between them, and then it’s shortly after he ends up in in the bathroom or whatever that then this guy comes and just almost deliberately puts it in front of the door. I felt like this was a deliberate thing to separate the 2 of them. 

Craig:  I don’t think so, and and the reason is okay. So the next day, Josh wakes up, and he’s in one of these torture rooms. I mean, it just it looks like, you know, a cold, barren, dark, dirty, gross room, and he’s, immediately, he starts to be tortured and notably by the Dutch businessmen. And I don’t know how important it is to detail the torture. It’s torture, you know? Like, he he drills into his his chest. He cuts his Achilles heel. And all the while, Josh, who arguably is the most likable of all these guys, is just begging and begging and begging. And it’s it’s scary, and it’s it’s sad, and and you feel bad for the guy.   The reason that I think that the whole Paxton thing was an accident is because when he wakes up in the morning and makes his way out, he makes his way back to the hostel, and he goes to the front desk to ask for the key, and they say the guy at the desk says, you’ve already checked out. And he says, no, I haven’t. He says, yeah, you have. You checked out. You checked out this morning. And he says, but is this your bag? The maid brought it down. She thought you must have left it. And he says, no, I didn’t check out.   Give me the key to my room. And when he goes back up to his room, he opens the door and the exact same scene plays out again, but with different girls. There’s 2 different girls in there who just happened to be getting dressed right in this moment, and when he says I’m sorry as they done the first time, the girls say the exact same thing. Oh, don’t worry about it. We’re just going down to the spa. Don’t you wanna join us? I think that somehow, Paxton had gotten himself locked in there, so he was not able to be abducted. And they this the cycle was just starting over again with new guys. That is, that’s the impression that I got.   And he then Paxton goes out and is looking around town, and he ends up finding he sees, Natalia walking down the street, and he follows her into this dive bar, like, you know, the total opposite of the glamour of, of the hostel. And both she and Svetlana are in there sitting with some guy, and they just look like a mess. You know, they look like they’re strung out on something. They’re not the gorgeous sexbots that they were before, and they’re surprised to see him. So that’s why I think that he lucked out, that he just happens, to end up in there. 

Todd:  Fair enough. That make that make that that kinda makes sense. I I kind of noticed that it didn’t seem to matter. You know, if I were running this gang, I would take all 3 people at once, you know? I mean, I would take, why not? But of course, there’s certain opportunities will come up and, you know, you can’t always force a situation where you’re gonna conveniently be able to take all 3 of them at once. At any rate, these guys don’t really seem to care that they pull off 1 at a time because they have ways of convincing the others that people just moved on. And so I felt like that might just be their MO is that they just take one at a time. And so when Josh was taken Paxton was left, I felt like, again, that was that was the same thing as as this girl taking Ollie away, and then that later he should be getting a text soon or something from Josh saying, hey, I’m okay. But, yeah, that I mean, that that also makes sense.   The reset makes sense. Although, again, these people running this hostel are in on it, right? They should know who they’ve taken and who they haven’t. If Paxton couldn’t be found and they only take Josh, then there wouldn’t the the the confusion at the front desk would seem to be just another part of the ruse. It it wouldn’t be an accident, a mix up, you know. I mean, the front desk should know, well, we only took 1. And so his story wouldn’t be a total reset, but it would seem like there’s some mistake that happened or something. Or again, one of those notions in the movies where I never saw this guy, you know, where somebody completely pretends that they don’t that they don’t know. A couple of Alfred Hitchcock movies are like that.   Anyway, it’s really unimportant whether that’s true or not, but obviously, he knows at this point that something’s definitely messed up. And, also, I guess we skipped over a little bit, but, Connor had a friend The Japanese girl had a friend that they had been commiserating with a little bit in this. I don’t remember. I think his her friend is now missing as well, right, when he comes 

Craig:  into Uh-huh. 

Todd:  Back into the hostel. She had been basically sitting on a Craig, and they’re waiting for Connor to come back, and she was now gone. So we see ominous Right. That she is also missing. 

Craig:  Right. And she she had agreed to wait for them the next day to go on the train with them to Spain. 

Todd:  So Oh, that’s right. 

Craig:  They were expecting her there. 

Todd:  That’s right. And it’s really neat what you point out him finding these girls in the bar, and they do look like a mess. It it Their makeup is clearly not done, it’s really cool, and that’s what again, this is something I maybe I didn’t notice the first time around, or maybe I did, but I just forgot about it, but it really made me respect the thought that went into this movie. Is that, at this point, these girls are not we know for sure that these girls are not sweet and not innocent, and now they don’t look sweet and innocent, you know, The curtain is away, and now we’re seeing them how they really are in this dive bar without their makeup on, totally unconcerned. And their personalities toward Paxton has totally changed as well. 

Clip:  Where are my friends?   The Art Show.   You mean, like, a museum?   No. No. No. No. No. Not the museum day when, how you say, for artists. Exhibit. Exhibit for artists.   No. That that Todd doesn’t make any sense.   Why? What is wrong?   Well, because they didn’t leave a note. They didn’t call or do anything. It’s   They tell us to tell you.   Yeah. But I tried calling them all day.   Yes. But they’re phoning about their diet, and they do not have, how you say it, for electricity.   Converter. Okay. Whatever. Where where is this art show? Because I wanna go.   Have a drink.   I don’t want a drink. Alright? I I wanna see some art. 

Todd:  It’s interesting what happens next. Right? Yeah. She gets in a car and she literally takes them to this old what looks like an old abandoned factory that’s been kind of looming over the town this whole time and walks them right into the place. You know? 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  Very surprising. And and, you know, they the funny thing is is, like, this place is completely guarded by all these people. It’s all, you know, he pulls up in this car with her, she drops him off, and they get out, and there’s shady characters over here, there’s shady characters over there, they’re walking into what’s obviously an abandoned factory, there’s clearly no art show going on here, but Paxton is still gonna go along with it, and I mean he’s not as cautious, he vacillates from being really cautious to really stupid an awful lot in this movie, but also what’s going through my mind is all of this is just way too convoluted for it for its own good. I mean, at any time, the girls could have just said, hey. Let’s go to an art show. Brought all 3 of them to this place, and they’re totally surrounded by enough heavies that are gonna take them out. The whole elaborate ruse in the first place where they’re pulling them away 1 by 1 and and biding their time and giving them drugs, but not taking them yet just to kind of get them used to it. All of that seems totally unnecessary. 

Craig:  Yeah. I I know what you mean. And you’re funny because you think of stuff like that all the time. You know, the answer is if it had happened like that, it would have been a really short, boring 

Todd:  movie. Well, of course You’re right. 

Craig:  You’re absolutely right. And and I thought that the whole time too. Like, if the purpose of these girls was just to lure these guys and if they’re if these guys are willingly taking drugs from them, like, why are these girls having sex having sex with these guys? You know, they they they clearly don’t have Todd. You know, the guys took the drugs before they had sex with them. They could have roofied him the 1st night. You’re right. It it it’s it’s convoluted. 

Todd:  Well, and then and I mean, my response to that is, well, this whole seed bed is a little out of place where he she takes her him there. I mean, obviously, we need a scene where he’s there, and he sees the horrible things that are happening that are happening, and he sees what happens to Josh before he’s taken himself. I think that’s the movie logic here, as we want a build up to his revelation. Right? Instead of just another, he falls asleep, he also wakes up in a scary place. But the way that we get there just kind of, again, negates a little bit of what came before it as far as the logic goes and and really calls into and it really, really get calls into question the legitimacy of this entire operation. 

Craig:  Yeah. I I’m with you on that. But it it is Todd, and it is a good reveal. You know, she lets him kinda walk ahead, and he walks right into not into, but right to outside the door where the Dutch businessman is performing like surgery on Josh. I mean, Josh is already dead, but he’s got him cut, you know, from crotch to stern. Haxton 

Clip:  and that make you my bitch. 

Craig:  And then, of course, the muscle comes out and grabs him and takes him to one of these torture rooms too. And he gets strapped down to a chair and they, the the muscle, whoever it is that works there, brings in this little guy, who’s going to do the the torturing. And this guy starts to torture him a little bit. The the the guard made Paxton speak to prove that he was American. Apparently, this guy wanted an American, but Paxton is all time multi also multilingual, which has been established earlier in the movie. So this guy that’s that’s starting to torture him, he really just gets started before Paxton starts speaking to him in German. Now, I was watching this on YouTube and it wasn’t a very good transfer. Did you have subtitles that showed you what he was saying? 

Todd:  No, I didn’t. I didn’t. 

Craig:  I didn’t either. I looked it up, he says to him in German, if you kill me, it’ll ruin your life. Every time you close your eyes, you’ll see me. I’ll be in your nightmares every night. Your whole life, I’ll ruin it. So the German guy goes out, gets the muscle again, and the muscle puts a ball gag on him. The German guy pulls out a chainsaw. Paxton, out of fear of the chainsaw, starts to vomit, but he’s got this ball gag in his mouth, and it looks like he’s gonna choke to death on his own vomit, which the German guy doesn’t wanna happen because then he doesn’t get to have his fun.   So he pulls the ball gag out, drops it on the floor, pukes, splatters everywhere. The guy goes and picks up his chainsaw again, kinda swings it around in such a way that it just nicks Paxton’s hands and takes off a couple of his fingers. But when he comes in apparently for the kill, he slips or trips on the vomit and the ball gag, and he falls, and the chainsaw comes down on his leg. Paxton, when when the chainsaw had cut his hand, it had also cut his hands free from the Craig, and he’s able to, squirm and wiggle enough to get out of the chair and get a gun that this German guy had sat down, kind of haphazardly. And he shoots the German guy, and then he calls for the guard and pretends that he’s still chained to the Craig. But when the guard goes down to check out the German guy, he turns around and shoots the guard, And, he he gets the keys from the guard. He unlocks his legs. And, he I thought it was really funny.   He grabs his fingers, like, he thinks that maybe like, maybe they’re gonna get reattached later. And then there’s a whole thing where he, like, puts on a disguise, one of the torture, you know, like a big helmet and one of the big aprons for the torture or whatever. And, he runs someplace and then somebody come, you know, somebody’s coming so he has to hide. So he hides on this cart of Todd, and then this cart of bodies that he’s on gets rolled, you know, to this other room where this big guy is, like, butchering the body. But he ends up, hitting the butcher guy when he’s got his back turned with a mallet, and he ends up going back upstairs where he ends up in, like, I what I guess is the locker room for these for these patrons of this place. 

Todd:  Backing up just a little bit. It we’re breezing through it so quickly that it’s it’s hard to forget how shocking it’s hard to remember how shocking this whole notion was. He stumbles into this room where this guy whose sole job it is is just to cut up these bodies so that they can be put in the incinerator. And it’s so it’s such mundane work. Of course, a place like this would have to deal with the bodies, but it’s so terrible. This is such a routine thing. This is just a business for these people, you know, that this is a part of the business. Oh, you gotta deal with the Todd, so we just hire this dumb guy who just chops them up and puts them away. 

Craig:  And then the he encounters this guy in this locker room. 

Todd:  When he meets this guy, he really meets I think he’s really meeting himself from earlier in the movie. You just substitute sex for murder and and girls, you know, for victims, and you get the same thing. This is a total dude bro who’s an American and he’s totally psyched to be there. 

Craig:  What’d you 

Clip:  go for? Local? What? European? 

Craig:  American. 

Clip:  An American. Ain’t that a bitch? Big spender. I I just love it. 

Todd:  I just love that shit. 

Clip:  You know   what they got for me? They told me they lined up something real special. I’ve been waiting for almost a week for this shit. I mean, like, for $50, she better be worth it. You know what I mean? But it’s supposed it’s supposed to be real. It’s supposed to be a real rush. Right? It’s like like it’s like it’s a they told me and it’s like it’s like a real rush. Right? 

Todd:  Paxton is just like staring at him like, who the hell are you? You’re absolutely crazy. But he doesn’t wanna blow his cover, so he just lets this guy ramble on and on and on. I thought this was a really cool scene, and I’m really glad that this scene was in there. It’s scary in that it puts us in the mind of these guys who were going in to do it and shows them that they’re not all creepy Dutch businessmen, you know, who have weird habits, but it’s also just this guy who thinks this is a cool idea and has never done it before and is gonna get off on it. He wants to know how it is, like it’s like it’s any tourist attraction that he’s that he’s come to do. But then it also, reflects back Todd, I think, an earlier time when these guys were treating women this way, You know, it was just all about sex. The only difference, of course, is that in that case the women are voluntarily or and and you know what? That’s actually not always the case, but at least, you know, there’s an exploitation that was going on earlier that he is getting to see. Again, I think, in a way, part of his disgust has to be that he’s looking in a mirror at himself, and and maybe he’s not quite dense enough to realize, the parallels there. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. You’re right. No. I and I and honestly, I I’m a little bit embarrassed to admit it, but I really kinda think that went over my head. And and I it makes a lot of sense, and I I can only imagine that that was intentional. When it all comes down to it, I mean, he finds out he he sees a card that says elite hunting, and it has prices on it and and things. So he understands now what he’s gotten himself into.   He he escapes. He gets out, and he finds a car with the keys in it, but here’s where that story comes back, the weird drowning story that he told before. He hears a woman screaming from inside, and I guess his conscience won’t allow him to just leave her in peril. So he goes back in to find her and he does, and this American guy that he was just talking to is torturing her with a blowtorch, like he’s blowtorching her face and her eyes. He kills the guy. It’s it’s it’s the girl. It’s the Japanese girl who was the friend who he knows. It’s it’s really gross.   Like, her eyeball is hanging out and, like, I don’t know why he thinks he needs to cut 

Todd:  it off 

Craig:  Yeah. But for some reason, he does. I don’t know that anymore. It’s just it’s just Todd just disgusting. I mean, all this puss comes out and stuff. It’s so gross. But, he gets her, you know, the the the business associates, whoever they are, are now aware that he’s out and they’re chasing them, but they get back to the car, and they get away. And and they’re they’re being chased through the town by these goons, and and there’s one point where this is probably my favorite part of the movie, where Paxton pulls up to this intersection, and there’s this big, like, moving truck blocking the intersection.   And and he honks and honks and honks, and finally, a guy comes and pulls the car away. And when he pulls the car away, standing in the street on the other side of the car are, Natalia, Svetlana, and Alex. So they have been set up from this since Amsterdam, and he realizes that now. And he runs them all down. And that was that’s it’s just so satisfying. 

Todd:  It is. These people are 

Craig:  so wicked. They’re so wicked and they’ve gotten away with it up until this point. To see them get their comeuppance, feels good. And and, not only do they does he run them down, but, the, Natalia is not dead. But when she looks down the road the other way, the the the car that’s in pursuit just runs right over her and just crushes her. So they’re dead. Paxton and this girl are trying to make their way to the train station. They run into a roadblock, and it looks shady, so they get out and they run to the train station, and they get there, but it’s heavily guarded too.   And Paxton saw the police out the window, at the factory, so he knows the police are in on it. There’s nowhere he can turn. So he’s just kind of hiding, trying to think what they’re gonna do, and they walk past this, it’s not a mirror, but it’s something reflective, a piece of glass. And the Japanese girl sees herself in it and is so upset by what she sees that she throws herself in front of a coming Craig, which is very sad. But fortunately, it provides enough distraction that Paxton is able to get on the Craig, and and you think he’s gonna get away. And then there’s kind of a little surprise tag here at the end. 

Todd:  Yeah. This was a very satisfying part for me in the movie. You know, he gets away, and you think that’s the end. He ends up back in the station, I think. Is it is it in Vienna or someplace or Prague? Yeah. And, and this guy that kept popping up, this Dutch businessman, he suddenly sees him, also getting off the train. And he decides he’s gonna follow him a little bit, and the guy conveniently goes into a bathroom here at the train station. And so he follows him into the bathroom.   He closes the door. There’s a sign there. He can lock it, and there’s a sign there that he can flip around saying that the bathroom is closed. And when the while the Dutch businessman is on the toilet, he goes into the stall next to him, and he just flips that card, that hunting card down at the guy’s feet. And the guy looks at it, he’s a little stunned. And as he reaches down for the card, he grabs his hand, pulls it under, and cuts off his fingers as well, and then comes around in there and starts to drown him in the toilet, and then pulls him up so that he can see his own reflection and slits his throat. Totally kills this guy, and I have to say, you’re just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, the whole time. It’s just like when he sees the the girls, you know, and runs over them with the car.   I thought this was a great way to end this movie, and I remembered I remembered it Like, there’s not a lot of this movie that I did remember, but I remembered that. I knew it was coming, and it was the the only thing that kinda takes you through it. So Yeah. It’s really a nice way to end it, and I guess when I looked up online, it didn’t originally end that way. Honestly, it ended in what I consider almost an even more mean spirited way. 

Craig:  They shot it first. That was the intended end. 

Todd:  Have you seen the that alternate ending at all? 

Craig:  I did. Yeah. It didn’t it didn’t test well. So the the guy has, his little daughter, and he said earlier in the movie that his little daughter is is his world. That’s the most important thing in the world to him. And so you see him, and I did. I I looked it up. It’s on YouTube.   The alternate ending, he he gets off. And his daughter is little. I would say maybe, like, 5. And she’s just adorable. And he sends her into the women’s bathroom while he goes into the men’s bathroom, and we see Paxton is following them. And then the guy, the Dutch businessman comes out, and he’s looking for his daughter. She’s not coming out. He goes, and he actually goes into the women’s room, and she’s not in there and he comes out and he’s holding her teddy bear.   And then he’s frantically running around looking for her, looking for her, and he ends up on the platform And he doesn’t see, but we see Paxton sitting on the train holding this girl on his lap, and she’s struggling, and he’s got his hand over her mouth trying to keep her quiet. And it’s a and not only is that unsettling, but the other thing that’s unsettling about it is that Paxton almost seems to be crying like this is upsetting to him Todd. It’s somewhat ambiguous. I think it’s meant to be ambiguous. Like, maybe he’s getting her away from the dad because he knows that the dad is really a monster. But the way that I read it, and I think the way that probably the test audiences read it, was that he was taking this girl because he knew that that was the most important thing to this guy. And just like this guy had taken his friend from him, he was now gonna take this little girl from from her dad, and, it was really dark. I actually think I’m glad that it got changed because I’m happy to see the businessman punished in the way that he is in the ending that we actually get.   Yeah. Yes. It it may be just as bad, if not worse punishment to lose his daughter, but then the daughter is like collateral damage. Like, that’s 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  It it was upsetting. I’m kinda glad they changed it. 

Todd:  That would totally well, and it kinda changes it would change your sympathies a little bit towards Paxton, and, I mean, this is more eye for an eye. Right? This is definitely way more eye for an eye. Right. The the the movie, again, I I I think a lot of this went over my head, like, as you kinda mentioned too, a little bit over yours as well when I first saw it, but there is a lot going on here that I really like about it, even though it I don’t know. You know what? Have you been back to see Pulp Fiction at all? When was the last time you went there? 

Craig:  Not Oh gosh. Years ago. I’ve seen it several times, but years ago. 

Todd:  Did you see it when it first came out? Like, did you go to the theater and see it or see it shortly there? 

Craig:  I didn’t see it in the theater, but I saw it I saw it soon thereafter. 

Todd:  And and I don’t know if you’re like me, but when I first saw Pulp Fiction, that movie just that changed my idea of what a movie could be. Like that was huge. The stuff that we saw in that movie, the way that that movie was and was filmed was just unlike anything we’d ever seen. You’ve got the gangsters, but you have all this really clever dialogue that’s almost a sideline to the action, but it’s kind of what the movie is about and he was told out of order, which isn’t an absolutely new thing, but at the time lot of people really weren’t doing it. The whole movie just and and and and it did all this while just exuding cool. It was also one of the first movies to really use, like, a soundtrack that’s nothing but songs. You know? Right. That the pulp fiction set so many standards.   It happened Todd also be a Quentin Tarantino movie, but it set so many standards when it came out. That now, if you go back and watch it, it seems tired and cliche. Mhmm. The last time I watched it, I was kinda let down. I was like, man, this movie was so great, but because so much has come out afterwards, in that vein, patterned after it, it being the standard bearer, that now the standard bearer itself looks a little worn and cliche and even not as good as some of the movies that came after it. You know? Mhmm. I think I’ve I felt, a little the opposite about hostile. You know? When I went back and saw it, I thought, wow.   There’s a lot going on here that I totally missed the first time. There’s there’s like some Nazi holocaust kind of imagery going in here, you know. Obviously being in this this this rundown factory, which is just a machine for, killing people, and the one guy that Paxton goes up against is German. There’s a little bit of that aspect to it. There’s obviously we’re talking about capitalism here, and as you sometimes do when you’re talking about these subjects like prostitution and things like that, you’re exchanging money for a service, you know, how far is too far, what service too is too precious to be bought? That’s what we’re doing here, and with the parallels at the beginning of the movie with the prostitution, and the guys doing that at the end of the movie are so so clear that there’s almost no subtlety there. The scenes where they’re walking through the the brothel and it’s this, you know, brightly lit. Probably, I’ve never been in a brothel, obviously, but probably like no no brothel ever does actually look. But you know, they’re walking down this hallway and they’re seeing it’s like the doors are translucent, so you can see shadows of what’s happening behind them, but you can actually see it.   But there’s all the noises, you know, of the sex going on, and as he walks by, he looks into each door and sees what’s happening. It’s like a perfect parallel of when he fur of when Paxton ends up in, the torture place and is dragged through the hallway, which is a similar kind of setup. And as he’s looking left and as he’s hearing the horrors of what’s happening behind the doors, he’s looking left and right. Except in this case, he can see exactly what’s going on in the rooms Right. Which is also kind of interesting, I think. Maybe if this if this were a European movie instead of an American movie, we would actually see the sex happening in the brothel much more than we actually do. It’s an interesting, almost kind of a sad commentary when they feel like they need to show us sex in the shadows, but when it comes to gore and violence, you know, all bets are off, and the movie can just show whatever it wants, and and we’re fine with that. Yeah.   But that’s kind of a whole other thing, you know, and also it plays off of this notion of American ignorance that Americans traveling abroad tend to be pretty stupid, and ignorant, and 

Clip:  That’s true. 

Todd:  Don’t take into full account the fact that we are in a foreign country, and we need to respect that, and we need to not just be cautious, but we also need to, like, not take advantage of people, you you know, not take advantage of the locals, not see the locals as just more meat for us to conquer as we trip around Amsterdam, And so there’s there’s a little bit of that in there too. I’m not saying it’s like the most clever writing in the world, but at least, 

Clip:  at 

Todd:  least he’s playing with these themes, I think. Yeah. 

Craig:  And and honestly, you know, having talked to you about it for an hour now, I I really kind of appreciate it more. I I I don’t know. I I wasn’t feeling it so much when we were watching it or when I was watching it. But, hearing that take on it, I I think that there is something to be said for the message that it has. It it spawns 2 sequels. I actually vastly prefer part 2 over part 1. Have you seen it? 

Todd:  I have. I don’t remember it very well. I I remember one scene. 

Craig:  Yeah. There’s there’s there’s a couple memorable scenes. There’s a, like, a, a lady bathry scene. Yeah. Mhmm. 

Todd:  And then there’s the the nut scene. 

Craig:  Yeah. And and the protagonists in in the second one are women, and and so maybe maybe I was able to relate better to them than to the dude bros. I don’t know. But I really like the second one. The third one was trash. I mean, it was it was just rehashing. It was all just about the violence. It there was nothing new going on there, but I don’t know.   You know? Overall, I’d say, not something that I’m gonna be in a big rush to watch again, but as for what it is, I think a pretty quality film. 

Todd:  Yeah. And and again, I’m with you. Like, I I also have that feeling like like I’ve seen so much of it already that this almost seems a little worn and tired, and it does have its flaws. But I really like the fact that Roth has slipped in a number of these themes in there, and that’s something that you don’t often see. And when you asked me at the beginning, like, what’s the difference for you? Why do you like some of these movies? Why do you not like some of them? This is the only thing that can really kind of pull me in anymore now that the shock value has totally passed for me. This is the only thing that kinda Right. Can make me say, you know, I really appreciate this film a little bit more than, than maybe even I initially did. 

Craig:  Alright. Well, thank you very much for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast, you can find all of our, back episodes either on iTunes or Stitcher. We have a Facebook page. We love to hear from you all. Give us some feedback. Let us know what your thoughts are on this movie. And, again, we are always open to suggestions for things we should watch in the future.   So until next week, I’m Craig And I’m Todd. With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.