Final Destination

Final Destination

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We’re joined this week by special guest Simone Yamshon as we discuss the premiere entry into the Final Destination movie franchise.

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Final Destination (2000)

Episode 49, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another edition of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. 

Craig:  I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. 

Todd:  And Todd, we have a very special guest with us, all the way from California. Say hello to people, Symone. 

Simone:  Hello. Yes. I flew all the way from California to China just to record this podcast with you guys. I’m very, very excited today. 

Todd:  Yeah. Simone’s been a listener of our podcast. I’ll just say she’s a coworker of mine. She’s totally into horror. And, so she was like, hey, could I have guest on your podcast? And I said, yeah, you passed the test. I’ve watched some movies with her. She’s pretty sharp. 

Craig:  This is gonna be Sweet. I’m really excited. 

Todd:  This is gonna be good. 

Simone:  I’m really, really excited. Thank you for having me. 

Todd:  Oh, it’s great to have you. And in fact, Simone picked the movie for Todd, which was Final Destination. 

Simone:  Yes. This was, a movie I saw, came out in, the year 2000. And I am totally going to date myself here, but I was 10 years old when I first saw this in the theater. But I’m just really excited to talk about it. It’s one of my favorite films. 

Todd:  What was it? So you saw in the theater I think I saw in the theater too. Craig, did you see it in the theater? 

Craig:  I think so. 

Todd:  Alright. So Simone, as a 10 year old watching this movie, would be a little different from I think we were in college. Right, Craig? Or we just graduated 

Craig:  from college. Yeah. Yeah. We were in college for sure. 

Todd:  That’s right. No problem though, Simone. Don’t worry about it. That because that’s an interesting perspective we wouldn’t normally get. This is a movie that for the 2 of us, I think, for Craig and I, this movie comes on the heels of a lot of movies like it, which were markedly different from the films the previous decade. I mean, we’re children of the eighties, and you know what those eighties horror movies 

Simone:  are like. Mhmm. 

Todd:  And then Scream came out. And after that, like, all the movies from the nineties just took this very distinct direction in the look and the feel and the subject matter and where they were located and the, basically, like, really well off white people. Like, the cast of Friends 

Craig:  Yes. 

Todd:  Has bad things happen to them. 

Simone:  Yes. Yes. Exactly. 

Todd:  But So, I mean, we saw the change, but you pretty much grew up with that, I think, as your horror. Or am I wrong? Am I assuming too much? 

Simone:  No. No. No. No. You’re absolutely correct. My kind of start in the horror genre, The Shining was the first, scary movie I ever saw. But, my parents also wanted to make sure that I started off with the classics. So The Shining, Twilight Zone, those kinds of old vintage shows.   But, I did see a lot of the, eighties slasher films growing up. At a very young age, my mom and I would walk to Blockbuster and, like, pick out, you know, the next sequence and events of the Friday 13th or the Nightmare on Elm Streets and things like that. But, yes, I remember seeing Scream, before Final Destination, of course. And and that’s when I really started thinking, well, anyone could be a serial killer. Wow. Like, I even started thinking, like, can my dad be a serial killer? 

Todd:  Is he is he, by the way? 

Craig:  No. No. No. No. No. No. 

Todd:  No. Not that you know of yet. 

Simone:  Not that I know of yet. 

Todd:  Alright. So what was your take on Final Destination then as a 10 year old? How did you come out of that? 

Simone:  What I liked so much, about Final Destination, and I remember even thinking about this as as a 10 year old, was that this is the first scary movie I saw, where really there was no apparent, masked, crazy masked murderer. You know? There was no Freddy Krueger. There was no Jason. This was freak accidents. And I became really, really kind of enamored and fascinated by the idea of like, Oh my Todd, we really can die at any time. And so at 10, kind of had this existential crisis of like, Well, I could get hit by a bus at any moment too. 

Todd:  Oh my gosh. 

Simone:  I I remember leaving the film or leaving the movie that Todd, not only just even more in love with Devon Zawah and Care Smith,   of course.   But heavily, just just really enjoyed, the the way in which, these characters got their demise. 

Todd:  It is different in that the protagonist, is not seen, or the antagonist is not seen. Right? You don’t have, the masseur running around. It’s death. Death is the antagonist. 

Craig:  Yeah. And that’s why, you know, I guess we’re getting a little bit or I’m getting a little bit ahead of myself. But that’s why I think that the, series works so well because you can really set one of these movies in any time, in any place and it will work because death is a constant. So I don’t even remember how many of these movies there were, like 7 or something like that. But I think that this is a franchise that could continue indefinitely because the, you know, the the options are are just limitless. 

Todd:  How many were there, Simone? Simone knows because she’s seen them all. 

Simone:  I have seen them all and in the theater, guilty as charged. Yeah. I understand. And and that’s that’s one of the reasons I think why this first one is so great is because it got me so excited for 2 and 3. I believe there are 5 in total, the 5 being called The Final Destination. And upon doing a little bit more research, I think there’s a 6th one in the making. Really? Yes. 

Craig:  Well and I thought they have all been, you know, to varying degrees, they’ve all been pretty successful. There were some that I liked better than others. The last one I thought was really good. So yeah, I’m glad that there’s another one in development because they’re creative. And part of the fun, you know, it’s not entirely dissimilar from, the soft franchise when part of the fun is just seeing these new creative ways, that that death can take people. And, it’s it’s creative and and, entertaining. 

Todd:  Yeah. It really does become, a puzzle of sorts. And I think, you know, watching it for this was only the second time I’d seen it. I remembered seeing it in the theater. I had not seen it again. I haven’t seen any of the sequels. And I I remembered enjoying it. But I think the second time around, I enjoyed it even more.   Because once you get the hook, once you see what the movie’s about and the movie basically is about a kid, who is in high school who looks like a college aged kid, like all of his friends and everybody in these movies. But he is, it focuses on him and his name is Alex. And he’s getting ready for a senior class trip to Paris. And the whole class is going. There’s a a jerk guy named Carter. There’s a, a Stifler character named Billy. Who’s played by the guy 

Simone:  by Stifler. 

Todd:  There’s the weird girl, Claire, who, is the girl who is just a little odder than everybody else, kinda keeps to herself. And anyway, we meet all these characters later, but it really starts out with Alex at home with his parents, and he’s getting ready to go on the trip. And there are all these little tiny premonitions that are happening. The clock flashes at at 1 o’clock AM, but then the the little line on the digital readout on the clock between, the middle zero has an 8. And 180 is actually their flight. And so, there’s that that he doesn’t even see, but then there are just little things here and there. He doesn’t wanna clip the tags off of his luggage because he feels like it’s bad luck from from his previous trip and his mom says, oh, don’t do Todd. And he cuts it.   Even his dad comes in 

Simone:  Yeah. 

Todd:  Right? And says like this 

Simone:  So, 17, on the loose, senior trip with your friends in Paris, 10 days in the springtime. Live it up, Alex. You got your whole life ahead of you. 

Todd:  Of course, they make no bones about it being an ominous kind of tone, and they Yes. They zoom in on his eyes. It’s really kinda goofy. Mhmm. But you appreciate these things, I think, even more so on the second viewing because you’re so you’re on the lookout for them anyway. But now that you kinda know what’s gonna happen, you’re looking for even more things that might be hidden or more premonitions you might have missed or little coincidences that happen. And that’s really the whole movie is based on this. They he goes to the airport and they get on the plane and amidst all these premonitions, he just feels uneasy about this whole thing.   All these things happen to him, and he falls asleep on the plane and has a a a nightmare, basically. Todd premonition. Yeah. About the plane, going up in flames. And when he wakes up, all those things that he dreamed about start happening up to the point where he freaks out and says, I want off this plane. And he ends up dragging 3 or 4 other people off with him. It’s Carter, that jerk guy and his girlfriend. It’s the Billy character.   It’s his friend. What was his friend’s name? Todd. Todd. His friend Todd. Yeah. I should know that. His friend Todd, get gets off the plane with him, to see if he’s okay. And then one of the teachers, one of the 2 teachers who accompanying them, Valerie, one of the 2 French teachers, goes off as well.   And the authorities won’t let any of them back on the plane. They might Valerie convinces them to to maybe let her on. It’s it’s basically either gonna have to be her or the other teacher who’s who gets on and the other one has to stay, so she ends up convincing him, no. You just go on ahead. And what happens is, the plane blows up just like they, he imagined it would. And that freaks everybody out. So, he’s got a couple agents, who are very interested in why did you know that the plane was going to blow up. And they’re a bit of a thorn in his side for a while, so there’s a suspicion cast on him from that direction.   But there’s also, for example, we mentioned the Craig girl. She gets off the plane because she believes him. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  She thinks this is Todd, and so she gets off. And so there’s this other angle of the people who think that he’s psychic and wanna know what else he knows. And it becomes a really interesting situation that Alex gets put in, as a result of having these premonitions. You’d think that he saved these people’s lives. They’d be really happy. But, that freaks them out even more. And then, of course, the the fact that he had these premonitions keeps his mind open to more premonitions as it goes on. And that’s really the core of the movie, is this idea that we can kinda predict our death in some way because death leaves these clues or these little premonitions that if we’re if we’re smart enough or observant enough, we’ll we’ll pick up on them. 

Craig:  Right. These, the opening sequence I mean, after, you know, there’s a little bit, where his character is established and we get, even in just the opening shots, you know, these these ominous things. Everything in the opening credits are these potentially dangerous threats. We see like a puppet hanging, a book falls over and it’s death of a salesman. You know, it’s really heavy handed, but I think in an effective way, I mean, it really establishes a tone of you need to be watching out for these little details, these little clues. And then with the premonition, the accident scene, I don’t know about you Simone, but these opening sequences, these initial premonitions really throughout the course of the series became what you were really looking forward to and anticipating because they, in the first movie, with the plane crash, you know, it plays out in real time. So unless you’re going in with any foreknowledge, you’re assuming that this is actually happening. And then when, Alex, played by Devin Sawah, wakes up, you realize that it hasn’t actually happened yet.   The opening, explosion of the plane, it’s it’s it’s really scary and and graphic. And it it it only lasts about 2 minutes. In all of the subsequent films, they really played up these these first premonitions. And that was kind of the big exciting opening to every single one of the sequels. The premise remains constant throughout that, yes, death has a design. And if you are smart enough, capable enough, intuitive enough to figure out the design, then you can possibly thwart it. But that opening sequence, I mean, you know, in the theatre, watching that in a big group of people and it’s so intense, that, you know, is is really maybe the most appealing part of, the movie and and the following movies for me. 

Simone:  Yeah. The accident scenes, in in all of the films, I think, I don’t wanna say have gotten better, but you’re absolutely right. It’s something that you’re always looking forward Todd, like, Oh, what’s it going to be for this one? 

Craig:  Uh-huh. 

Simone:  And, they have gotten longer, and even more gorier, almost to the point where it’s a little bit cheesy, especially the one that the accident happens in the Craig track. But what I like so much about this one is that plane accidents, although they are rare, is a huge legitimate fear for most people. And I remember kind of as an inside joke, every time my sister and I would get on a plane, we would always be sitting together. We would check the little knobs on the safety trays in front of you, and we’re like, okay. I swear to Todd, if this one breaks, we’re 

Craig:  getting off. I think that’s part of, with this one in particular, you’re right. The rest of them, they get more outrageous. And arguably, that’s fun, to see them keep pushing the envelope. But this one, like you said, plays on such a common fear and it plays out in exactly the way that you would expect a plane crash to play out. And and that’s what makes it, I think, so scary, you know, with with all the turbulence at first and then, the lights flashing and the oxygen masks dropping. You know, that’s I don’t know about every I guess I can’t speak for everybody, but for me, that’s like my worst nightmare. That’s worst case scenario.   Anytime you sit down in an airplane seat, and so, it it works because it really plays on, a fear that’s common to to anybody who has, traveled by air. 

Todd:  Well, and I think it’s funny that you bring that up too, Craig, because I was thinking the exact same thing. I was thinking, you know, this is a place where they could have saved a lot of money. You know, they didn’t have to show us the entire plane wreck, in such detail and make that scene what had to be a really expensive, scene full of lots of effects. And it really didn’t need to happen because it’s not like there’s any information, in that that we see in that scene that helps us out later with the movie. It’s not like that scene casts a a dark shadow over the rest of the movie, I should say. Because it’s just a crash and a whole bunch of people we don’t really know, you know, end up blowing up and dying. And we’ve just met, you know, a couple of them. Yet, they chose to really draw that scene out and really make it horrible.   And I think you’re onto something there. It sets us up by playing to some of our most common and worst fears, showing us just how well founded those fears can be because this is how bad a plane crash really could be 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  That you’re in it. And then, you know, for everything subsequent to that, we are now confronting the the scary things in our everyday life. And maybe they are as bad as as we think. Maybe the fear of crossing the street and get hitting by getting hit by a bus is, is every bit as real as we as as it as it hits us inside on a gut level. I don’t know. Does that make any sense? 

Simone:  No. I I I think it does. And and like I said, when I first saw this, I thinking like, oh, I I gotta be careful because freak accidents like this can happen all the time. And we we see, kind of accidents like that happening, in the news, or you see those shows like A Thousand Ways to Die or something. And my dad and I kind of coined the term a Final Destination moment. When you see and hear about just these awful, awful ways to go, it’s like, oh, well, that’s a final destination moment there. Because it’s almost like so, outlandish, but also could also be a very, very common way to go. 

Todd:  Right. And also maybe not at the hands of another human. Right? 

Simone:  Right. Right. 

Todd:  And that’s the thing that sets all of these things apart as well in this film is it’s not like death is is is bringing a a killer around the corner towards you. It’s not like death is nudging these people down a dark alley where, you know, somebody’s in waiting to to hurt them. Death is is it’s freak accidents throughout this whole movie that, seeing them on their own, you would just say, oh, this guy committed suicide. Or, oh, this woman, you know, slipped and fell, things like that. Dr. 

Craig:  Mhmm. And the other thing, you know, if somebody who was really paranoid went into this into any of these movies really, well even myself who you know, I just have some kind of mild anxiety, but if you’re thinking about the premise of the movie, if you’re looking for clues, or if you’re looking for these kinds of clues that the main character sees here, you can see them all over the place. You know, the the movie plays it up very ominously with ominous music and and scary stuff, but, you know, just, before they board the plane, Alex is looking up at the boards in the airport and he’s focusing in on the words terminal and departed. Todd, and you know, those things are there all the time. And all of the if you if you I can imagine coming out of this movie and everywhere you go seeing all of these little things that you’re like, Oh Craig. 

Todd:  I’m for sure going to 

Craig:  die in the next 5 minutes because of these little details all around. But they play it well. I mean, yeah, it’s very paranoid. And I think the characters in the movie initially when Alex is trying to explain what’s going on, they think that he’s just being paranoid. But in the context of the movie, in fact, just that he’s, very intuitive and observative and, he’s he’s catching these things that maybe the rest of us or or the other characters wouldn’t catch. 

Simone:  Yes. And I think I think that this first one plays so much on the idea of well is Alex crazy or is he really intuitive in seeing these premonitions by seeing the signs like the piece of shredded, what was that, a hustler magazine? What did he take out? Yeah. Yeah. And it says the word Todd, so he gets that feeling like, Oh, something’s wrong with Todd. This movie really, I think, sets that up, in which the other movies of the series don’t necessarily spend too much time in thinking, oh, am I crazy or am I intuitive? Because they’ll kind of relate it back to the first one. So I really like that this, movie sets up so much with, like, the FBI agents putting so much attention into Alex as to why he’s always shows up at at the scene of the crime or or at the death scene. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  Yeah. At some point, Alex, and this is I think this is kind of silly, but I see where it’s just necessary for the movie. After the plane crash, Alex becomes obsessed with plane crashes. Yeah. And and, like, it pans through his room and he has books on planes and he has, like, articles from old plane crashes somewhere else and he’s called things up on his computer. This is kind of pre w w w in some ways. Not totally pre w w, but definitely early days. But it’s like, what is he hoping to discover by examining all these other plane crashes? 


Yes. Yes. And I I hate to be I hate to bring this up, but I turned to Todd and I just said, well, pre 9: 11 magic there. Because anyone else who would go to the library and rent out thousands of books on plane crashes and and start to research plane crashes would have a huge suspicion on 

Todd:  them. Yeah. 

Craig:  Yeah. I I definitely thought the same thing. 

Todd:  The one thing that he ends up putting together, obviously, through all this research, is nothing. No. 

Simone:  It wasn’t until, like, the flight details of of the explosion is when real, kind of clues are given Todd as to when, like, the order in which his friends were going to die. 

Todd:  Yeah. His first friend to die is, Todd. Is Todd. And, Todd is has been very supportive of him. He’s probably the one guy who’s been next to him who is treating him pretty normally after this plane crash. But, Todd ends up, dying in a shower. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And that the the other the other interesting thing about this movie, and you guys are gonna have to help me out, I bet it’s just a hallmark of the series, are these crazy Rube Goldberg type ways that people die. Oh, there’s a leak in the toilet and the water comes out and he unplugs this and then he slips on that, which then trips him up in the cord hanging from the shower, which he slides into the tub, which I don’t remember. Was there some gel or some showers 

Craig:  Yeah. Shampoo there or something? 

Simone:  Like, the the shampoo falls and, like, the the liquid that he slipped on was at the bottom of his feet, which made it slippery for him. But you turned to me and you’re like, just curl your knees into your chest and, like, use your arms to hoist yourself. 

Todd:  Use your arms, dude. Like, what was wrong with his arms? Why couldn’t he lift himself up out of that tub? 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  Am I wrong about Craig, did you see something that we didn’t see? 

Craig:  Oh, no. No. No. I I I have always thought the same thing. You know, Todd is is probably and I feel like it must kind of just come from the performance of this little quirky actor, But he’s kind of the most endearing character, you know, you feel sorry for him because, he lost his brother on the flight, And he’s the only one that, well, aside from Claire, who is grateful, the rest of everybody else is either fearful of Alex or they kind of place some blame on him. But, Todd is his friend that kind of stands by him. And Todd, they have this big memorial service for the the teenagers that were lost and and the one teacher that was lost. And Todd gets up and speaks about death. 

Simone:  We say that the hour of death cannot be forecast. But but when we say this, we imagine that the hour is placed in an obscure and distant future. Never occurs to us that it has any connection with the day already begun, or that death could arrive this same afternoon. This afternoon which is so certain and which has every hour filled in advance. 

Craig:  And then he’s the first one to go, and it’s kind of, a gut punch. Yeah, you’re right in that the series totally plays up that whole sequence of events, you know, unlikely sequence of events leading up to what appear to the outside world, to be accidents. And with Todd, yeah, and it could come across as convoluted, but I think that the way that it’s played, it comes across more as just, Oh, death is a really tricky guy. Initially, this was the first death that was scripted, it was the first death that was shot, and you know, there’s this whole sequence of events leading up to the fatal accident. But one of the things that you see is he’s shaving in the mirror and you see this dark shadow, across the mirror and he kind of notices it too. And that plays in later to some of the deaths, but less prominently. And I read that initially they had imagined the character of death as being a more prominent actual figure or character in the movie. So you would see the, you know, the shadow as though there were an actual entity there.   And and I guess after Todd’s death, they decided to pull that back a little bit so that it was more conceptual. And if I remember correctly, I’ve seen all the sequels Todd, but it’s been a while. If I remember correctly, they really kind of pulled away from that and and made it just more death as, a concept, rather than an active figure. But yeah, not all yes, he should have just curled his knees up under and stood up. But if I were slipping and sliding and hanging by some weird wire in the shower, I don’t know how logical or rational I would be, in that moment either. So, it’s sad to watch because it plays out over a good 30 seconds and he’s struggling and his eyeballs are bulging and bloodshot, and eventually he just succumbs. But, I don’t know. I thought it was a really tense and suspenseful scene, and I think that that tension, holds throughout.   You know? It’s it’s a very suspenseful movie. You’re always wondering what’s gonna happen next. 

Todd:  Now, Symone, you made a you made a comment during the scene that you felt like that death was cheating a little bit. 

Simone:  Yes. But kind of and I’ll and I’ll talk about why. But I real but I after, like, giving some thought into it, I kind of saw why they did why they made this choice. And this is once Todd finally dies, you see the water from the toilet that was leaking suck back in. And it almost made it seem like like it instead of it being a a freak accident obviously they played it that way to make it seem like Todd’s death was a suicide. Even though when they go to the morgue later, the mortician who ends up being a very vital character in the rest of the series points out, Oh, he has scratch marks around his neck like he was pulling at. He was pulling out this wire. I always thought that it was kind of cheap that they did that.   That death can snap its fingers and make magic appear. 

Todd:  Like cover up his tracks in a way Yeah. In a supernatural way. 

Simone:  Exactly. And again, correct me if I’m wrong. I think this is the only death that’s ruled by suicide in all of the series. And I think the reason why, they kind of went for that choice, as this as Todd’s death by suicide is again, it sets up that, well, no. This wasn’t an accident. He felt so much grief about his brother surviving, or sorry, his brother passing, and staying on the plane and him surviving that took his own life, which kind of puts more emphasis on Alex’s premonitions being as off putting 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Simone:  And why he happened to be there at the same moment or at his house when, the ambulance was taking the body out of the house. Yeah. 

Todd:  It gives an now you we’ve had the grief. We’ve had the the people who are suspicious of Alex. We have but now we also have the person just who just thinks he’s a he’s he’s caused more problems. He’s actually caused problems 

Simone:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  In the for example, the suicide. Mhmm. It’s really crazy how they pile all that on on him Yeah. And his psyche. And it’s no wonder it’s really a good choice, actually. It’s no wonder that he he does by by one scene in the movie where he’s holed himself up in a cabin, which comes later, he does seem crazy. 

Simone:  He does. 

Todd:  He’s really going off the deep end there. 

Craig:  Doctor. Well, and at this point, you know, he suspects that there’s something weird going on, but he doesn’t have any idea what it is. And it’s it’s he goes, to because he has this, you know, it’s not really a premonition, but it’s like clues. You know, the premise is kind of that if you watch, there are clues. And you had already mentioned that he, like, pulled out, you know, like a a nudie magazine and, had had thrown it at a fly or a moth or something, and and a page got, sucked through the fan. And it, you know, the shred that he sees is Todd. So he he knows or he suspects that something’s going on with Todd. And he so when, after Todd has died, he shows up there and you know, is shocked to find what has happened and is sad because it’s his friend.   But of course, that just casts more suspicion on him from from these FBI agents, who are also there. But he also sees that clear is there. So he, after this, goes and visits with her and she says that while they were on the plane, the reason that she got off after his freak out was because she didn’t have a premonition, but she had a bad feeling Todd, and she trusted him. So for whatever reason, they decide to go break into the mortuary to check out Todd’s body and see if they can figure out, anything from that. And this scene, I I I think is really kind of one of the iconic scenes from the movie because they break in and they find Todd’s body, and it jerks. Todd’s arm jerks. But then in comes the mortician played by Tony Todd, who is just, you know, an icon of horror in himself. He’s the candy man, he’s been in a 1000000 horror movies.   And the impression that I have and have always had because this character recurs in most, not all, but most of the sequels, is that really this is kind of the personification, of death. And he has this excellent monologue. 

Clip:  In death, there are no accidents, no coincidences, no mishaps, and no escapes. What you have to realize is that we’re all just a mouse that a cat has by the tail. Every single move we make from the mundane to the monumental, the red light that we stop at or run, the people we have sex with or won’t with us, the airplanes that we ride or walk out of. It’s all part of death’s sadistic design leading to the grave. 

Craig:  Design. Does that mean if you figure out the design, you can cheat death? 

Clip:  Alex, you’ve already done that by walking off the plane. Your friend’s departure shows that death has a new design for all of you. You have to figure out how and when it’s coming back at you. Play how it’s Alex if you think you can get away with it. But remember, the risk of cheating the plan of disrespecting the design could incite a fury that could terrorize even the Grim Reaper. 

Craig:  And that’s when Alex really kind of figures out what’s going on, and that’s when he starts putting together the pieces of, Okay, if I have to figure out what the original design was so that I can figure out what the new design may be. And that’s really the premise that he works on, from that point on. And the next scene after the mortician scene is when all of the remaining survivors from the crash inadvertently convene on this street corner where, Alex has been trying to tell Clear, you know, This is what’s happening. Death has a design. And she’s not buying into it, but they all end up on this street corner and the puzzle pieces just continue to, lay themselves out. 

Todd:  And that’s goofy, but then I guess you can read in another way. I mean, when I was watching this, I was thinking, oh my okay. So they all happen to be converging in the cafe at the same time. But then I guess you kinda wonder, is this part of Death’s design? Is he toying with them in this way? Which raises, I think, an interesting question, period. And that is, is he toying with them? Is Alex special in some way? Is he, for some reason, choosing to give Alex, premonitions that he’s not giving anyone else? Or do we are we all gonna be getting these premonitions, we’re just not smart enough or intuitive enough to pick up on them? I mean, why Alex, you know, down the street and across town, is gonna get a little shard of paper falling in his lap that says Todd? Why wouldn’t Todd just die? Why wouldn’t Todd, you know, death just make Todd die? Maybe Todd himself would see premonitions as he did in the mirror. But why would Alex see premonitions of another person’s death? You know what I mean? 

Craig:  Aside from the initial premonition, which always happens in all of the sequels, one person gets this premonition. Aside from that, I think that what they’re suggesting is that the clues are always there. They’re always around, It’s just that we are not receptive to them in most cases. And for whatever reason, you know, these certain individuals, I don’t know why they are given these premonitions. But you know, we all, and they usually don’t amount to anything, but we all have bad feelings, about things sometimes. And I think that we all imagine worst case scenarios sometimes. So maybe that’s what the whole premonition deal is. But I actually like that suggestion that it’s not a matter of, Oh, one person is being given these clues.   It’s that the clues are always there. We’re just not always open and receptive to them. And I think that’s a scary thought. You know, if you’re willing to suspend your disbelief and think that that’s actually a possibility, then you’re gonna become a paranoid schizophrenic. Yeah. 

Todd:  Well, and the clues veer into the supernatural as well, which I don’t know. Actually, I felt was maybe a little weak. Death seems to come in reflections more often than anything else. 

Simone:  Yes. Like, at that moment where all of the characters meet up again, Alex looks into, the reflection mirror of the cafe that they’re sitting and he, sees a bus go by, but when the camera pans out to the other side, there is no bus. And that’s where the next character, Terry, gets her 

Todd:  Oh my gosh. 

Simone:  Upcoming, which was, I think, my favorite death when I saw it for the first time because it was just, wham, out of nowhere. Like, you can just drop dead. Boom. And she does. And we loved that. I mean, like, I watched so many horror movies growing up and I think, my parents were never as concerned with, like, the gore and the blood as they were with, like, the sex and the cursing. So I think I think my mom might have whinged at all of the f bombs in that movie. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Simone:  Less than, like, oh, this girl just got hit by a bus and, like, blood splatters everywhere. 

Todd:  But isn’t that the scene though? I don’t know about you guys, but that’s a scene I remembered. I mean, you you mentioned this movie. That’s the one scene that comes to mind right off the bat. It’s so shocking. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. It is. It it’s shocking in in a really effective way. And and almost, you know, as as a horror fan, you feel bad for that character. She she doesn’t have much character, frankly. She, you know, she’s kind of the popular ditzy girl, who’s just Carter’s girlfriend and that’s really the only role that she plays. But in this one moment where she kind of stands up and says, I’m not gonna take this anymore.   I’m not gonna allow this to control my life. And then she just steps right off the curb and this bus just comes out of nowhere and it’s so fast. As a horror fan, as badly as you feel for this girl, it almost brings a smile to your face just because it was so it’s so quick and and unexpected, and and I I love that scene. 

Todd:  It does come out of the blue. Yeah. But but there is a point in which the premonition it wasn’t like a a piece of paper flitting into a fan and, you know, it got cut up and and a and a chunk happened to land on your lap. Or, you know, this was very definitely supernatural. There’s a reflection in the mirror that shouldn’t be there. Do you think this is just this character who can see it? Or that anybody who is looking at that window at that moment would have been able to see it? 

Craig:  I don’t know. I I I I guess I guess since nobody else ever does and since it’s not a natural phenomenon, I guess maybe there is something skipping 

Simone:  ahead a little bit, but at the end scene, when they skipping ahead a little bit, but at the end scene, when they do go to Paris, 6 months later, which to me seems a little soon, after all of this tragedy to go through maybe 6 months later. I could see 6 years later, but they’re finally in Paris. They’re toasting to life and and all of a sudden Alex starts to feel weird and he starts to kind of get this feeling like, well, okay, maybe we didn’t cheat death. Maybe we it’s going to happen. Craig gets this vision. She sees the bus out of a window and yells, Alex. And he kind of jumps back, away from the bus, which, skips Alex and then goes to Carter. Doctor. 

Craig:  Yeah. That’s right. That’s right. Yeah, I forgotten about that. So maybe not. I don’t know. The plot, you know, it’s tense and it it it’s well paced, I think. It Todd doesn’t really ever get boring.   But I don’t know about you guys, but I just kind of it’s it’s not like I was impatient for it, but what you’re waiting for is the next death. Alex figures out that he sees on the news that this they suspect that this explosion on the plane was caused by a systems failure, and it it the explosion, followed, I I think, like a a fuel line or or something along those lines. They they track on the screen where the various, explosions on the plane happen. And he is able to overlay the seating plan, onto that and so he can see who would who would have been next each time. And so he figures out after, Terry dies, that Ms. Luton is going to be next. And so he, goes to her house and is kind of watching, which she sees and she’s already scared of him. He tried to approach her at the memorial and she said, Stay away from me.   You scare me to death or something like that. 

Simone:  You scare the hell out 

Craig:  of me. Right. Right. Which yeah. Good job, teacher. That’s really sympathetic. So supportive. Right.   But, but, so then, you know, each time we’re just waiting, we know somebody else is gonna get it. We’re just waiting to see how it’s going to play out, because we’ve seen how elaborately these things play out. And, miss Luton’s death is is, you know, totally in keeping with that. 

Todd:  Super convoluted. Like, it’s like, again, a total Rube Goldberg thing. And, you know, part of the pleasure of this movie, I guess, is is seeing this play out and seeing the setup for it. Right? It’s Mhmm. It’s like, again, like the pleasure of the Friday 13th movie is seeing the creative way a person’s gonna die. This is that, but in sort of a puzzle way. Right? 

Simone:  Yeah. And, again, it kind of all starts with we have 2 kind of big premonitions here. The first one, she starts playing the John Denver record, which of course, John Denver died in a plane crash. Each movie kinda has its own unique theme song to it. This one, I think it’s just John Denver as a musical artist is kind of a big premonition. And then the other one, Todd, you pointed out that I’ve never noticed, and I’ve seen this movie a ton of times, was her stained glass window with a knife. 

Todd:  Oh, the dagger in the in the behind her. Yeah. 

Simone:  Yes. The dagger. Yes. And, you were like, oh, there’s the dagger. And I was like, oh, god darn. I never noticed that before. 

Todd:  Yeah. Just looking for those things in the background. Mhmm. You know, watching it the second time, I was just eagle eyed for those things. I think that must be part of the charm. I hope the subsequent movies hide a lot of things like that in it as well. 

Simone:  Yeah. I think I think a little bit. 

Craig:  With her death, you know, like you said, it’s it’s so convoluted, but it it it’s not entirely impossible. And you know, I guess that any accident, you know, comes from a series of events. And one would you could never imagine that something like this could happen. So she she makes some tea and she pours hot tea into her mug and then she notices that the name of the high school is on the mug and that freaks her out because she’s still traumatized by this. So she tosses out the tea, and instead of tea, she gets, vodka out of the freezer, and she puts ice in the vodka in the glass, which probably would shatter the glass, you know, that intense, change from hot to cold. And it just Craig, so her vodka’s leaking out as she’s walking around. And she leans over her computer monitor for some reason and the vodka drips in there which causes, an electrical fire and and the the computer explodes and and she gets a shard of glass in her neck and and then she slips in the blood and falls down on her back in the kitchen and she reaches up to try to grab a kitchen towel, but the towel’s draped over, the the block of knives, and she pulls it down and the knife falls into her chest. You know, you That would never happen, or at least you wouldn’t expect it to happen, but it’s not entirely out of the realm of possibilities.   The rest of the series, it continues in that fashion. These deaths all seem so unlikely. Unlikely, but not impossible. And that’s what I think makes it, you know, kind of scary. You know, it plausibly could happen. You would never expect it to happen, but when do you ever expect an accident? You know, if you expected an accident, then the accident probably wouldn’t happen. So, I I like that. 

Todd:  Yeah. It’s cool. Although, I have to say, however I die, whatever form it takes, I absolutely do not want it in any way, shape, or form to involve me slipping in my own blood. That’s all I’ve gotta say. But but, yeah. Another one of those weird coincidences that makes me wonder if death isn’t also orchestrating their meet ups, is that Billy happens to be riding by on his bike at exactly that moment when he when, Alex runs out of, Valerie’s house unable to save her and the house explodes. 

Craig:  Well, right. And he’s again, you know, in these extreme circumstances, you’re really not thinking very well. But he the police found him outside her house before any of this all happened. So they’re because she called them. So they’re already suspicious of him, but they released him because they didn’t have anything to hold him on and he went immediately back, which the timing doesn’t match up at all. There’s no way that they would have had time to take him somewhere, interrogate him, and then for him to get back before all this happened because it seems to be only minutes. You know, Rocky Mountain High is playing the whole time. 

Todd:  Oh, yeah. 

Craig:  Yeah. But he gets back, and he goes in, to, I I guess, try to save her, but she’s already gone, really. Yeah. And, but he he, you know, he’s he’s tracking her blood through the house with his shoes. He he pulls the knife out of her and doesn’t even realize until after he’s done so that obviously his fingerprints are now gonna be on the knife. So, after this, and the Sean William Scott character sees him coming out, so, everything would point to him. And so he’s on, the run now basically. He goes to Clear and then Clear pulls the other 2 guys, Billy and Carter, together, so that they can talk this out because now she finally believes him.   And so then, again, you know, they’re they’re all together. They’re driving around. And Carter, who has been this kind of jerk character throughout, decides that he is not going to allow some other force to determine his fate. 

Clip:  Yeah. You get off having control over me. You let me decide how to deal with it. 

Simone:  It doesn’t matter who’s next because we’re all on the 

Clip:  same list, all of us. Then why bother? I mean, what’s the point. Right? Me and Terry, we’ll be back together on the other side. So why wait any longer? 

Craig:  Carl, what are you doing? And so he goes on this big reckless driving spree, and everybody else is freaking out. But eventually, they stop, on a train track, and, Alex has explained to them what’s going on that it’s next and Carter believes it’s going to be him. And Alex doesn’t refute that. He doesn’t affirm it either, but he doesn’t refute it. And so they stop on these train tracks and, a train is coming. The rest of the characters get out, but Carter is just kind of sitting there, like, I’m gonna do this on my own terms. And at the last minute, he decides, you know, that he wants to get out, but he can’t. The seat belt sticks.   He can’t get out. And Alex goes to help pull him out, and the train is, like, you know, right there. But he pulls him out at the very last minute, and so they think that, they have once again cheated death. But the Billy character, Sean William Scott, is standing there right next to the train tracks and we see this piece of shrapnel from the car had been hit and we see this piece of shrapnel rattling underneath, the Craig. And as Billy’s standing there saying, You’re next, Carter. You’re next. It’s going to be you. You’re dead.   You’re dead. This piece of shrapnel shoots out from under the train and chops the whole top part of his head off. But this is kind of when Alex puts together that if you are able to change death’s design, then the design changes and it just moves on to the next person. So you can cheat it, but it’s going to move on to the next person. And what was kind of funny to me, they don’t even realize this until the very last scene that Simone already referenced when they’re in Paris. What they don’t put together is, Yeah, you can cheat it and you can move it on to the next person, but once it’s cycled through the rest of the people, it’s gonna loop back around. But they don’t put that back together, until the end. Yeah. 

Simone:  Yeah. And, and Craig bringing back up that point where where Carter says, Oh, I’m I’m gonna take my I control my life. I control my death. And then kind of plays that cool guy like, It just ain’t my time. And then turns the keys to his engine like he’s going to go suavely, like, drive off, half the train tracks even though, like, the guard rail’s already down. All of a sudden, death kind of works in this, like, magical, kind of paranormal way where, like, the locks all of a sudden go down and he can’t jiggle the door open. And the engine won’t start. And all of a sudden his seat belt is glued together.   He can’t unbuckle it. But Alex had had this kind of premonition in the car earlier. He saw the seat belt rip, which he kind of explained later, like, I saw the seat belt rip, which is why I knew I was able to save Carter. So here, death kind of works like, Uh-uh, Carter. I’m gonna kill you because you’re you’re still sitting in this car, but then, is is cheated once more because Alex saw this premonition of of of the seat belt tearing. 

Todd:  Which is interesting. Like, so death gave him a clue. Like, hey. Here’s how you could get him out possibly. 

Simone:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  Like, to me, that doesn’t quite jive 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  Right, with the with the whole premonition thing. I don’t know. Like, that that was a weird moment for me. Like, why did death clue him in to how he could get Carter out of it? 

Simone:  It’s almost like Death is setting up exposition. Like, to to to kind of move the plot along, and that’s why they were able to bring up the idea, which Craig you brought up earlier, that’s when they really discovered, okay, if it skips one person, then it just immediately goes on to the next. 

Todd:  Like, Death wants them to know. Like, wants them to discover this or something. Like, he’s really playing with them or something. 

Simone:  Sly hit there, death. I see what you did. 

Craig:  Well, it’s ambiguous. You know, they and I don’t remember. Like I said, it’s been so long since I’ve seen the sequels, but it’s ambiguous. Is it death providing the clues? Because that doesn’t really make much sense. Why would Yeah. Yeah. If we’re considering death as an entity, why would it why would it give clues? It doesn’t really make any sense. Is it something else? Is there some other force that’s maybe working against death or giving these characters a chance? And it’s just ambiguous, you know, I don’t think that it’s ever expanded upon, but it it’s it’s it’s clever, and it it it makes for for a nice suspenseful story. 

Todd:  Yeah. All I know is that if I I would not be getting in the same car or be anywhere near the other 3 people who are marked for death if I was also marked for death. 

Simone:  Yes. Yes. 

Todd:  That was a big mistake. That was a big mistake from the beginning. 

Simone:  Yeah. You turned to me at the because we watched the movie together. You why are they all together? 

Todd:  You are an easy target here, guys. 

Craig:  Yeah. Right. Well, and that’s the other thing too. If if they were if if death if death was trying to take them all out, why wouldn’t it just lock them all in the car? You know, just just get them all with one fell swoop. Like, it’s very specific. No, I need to have this one first. Mhmm. And then move on.   After all this happens, Alex realizes that because, Carter has been saved and and Billy is gone, Alex realizes that he is next. So he, goes Claire or Claire, excuse me, takes him, out to her dad’s cabin somewhere, and he foolproofs this cabin, against, death. You know, we see him setting up all these safeties around the cabin. And and that scene, if any scene, I felt like was something that they felt like they had to get in there and it seemed kind of rushed, because it all happened so quickly. You see him safeguarding the house and then immediately you see a sequence of things start. But he notices it too, and he’s able, to to stop it. And so he realizes then that he has, you know, thwarted his own death, and so Clear is next. And and, so he has to try to get to her.   And and we see her immediately, start to get into peril when, there’s a thunderstorm and and lightning. I don’t remember if it strikes a tree or if it strikes the telephone pole, but, a wire goes down. And then of of course, as is always the case, there’s just a whole sequence of things, where she, her life is at risk now too. 

Todd:  Yeah. She ends up trapped in a car, by the end of it, when Billy, I’m sorry, when Alex finally arrives. And, there’s a live wire dancing on the top of her car. And he’s like, no, stay in there because you’re grounded by the tires. I think what he meant was you’re insulated by the tires, but that’s okay. Because you don’t wanna be grounded or you electricity will pass through you. But, anyway, yeah. You’re grounded by the tires.   And then, somebody needs to teach this kid how to deal with a live wire situation. When you’ve got all these downed trees and branches and things around you Yeah. You don’t just run up to the wire, grab a hold of it to get it off. 

Simone:  He tries to, like, hit it with a shovel a few times. 

Todd:  Yeah. It’s kind of a half assed attempt Todd, knocking it off with something else before he decides that he’s going to sacrifice his life. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  Because, obviously, if he dies next, then it’s gonna have skipped her. 

Simone:  Yes. And and that sequence is almost comical in that way where he’s like, you’re safe by the tires. Don’t worry. And then, gasoline leaks under the car and the live wire spark starts a fire underneath the car. And then, Your car is going to explode. So you’re not safe anymore, and that’s when he decides to take on, the wire and and and save her. 

Craig:  And he grabs he grabs the wire and he gets thrown, but he’s successful in in getting it off the car. And and, I I I guess since he’s apparently dead, death is like, okay, well, there was that attempt, so The Wire goes dead. And I thought, I didn’t remember, I’ve seen this movie so many times too, but I didn’t remember this one moment where Alex is on the ground, Craig gets down next to him, she sees that his hands are all burnt up, he’s clearly been electrocuted. And then it totally fades to white. And when it fades out of the white, it fades into the, corridor, you know, that ex that extending corridor between the the terminal and the airplane. And I was kinda thinking, like, is this, like, the white light? You know, is is the passage is the passage to the afterlife one of these airplane hallways? Yeah. 

Simone:  Well, they they were talking about that, one of, the scenes on the beach, that that Alex and Claire have this conversation about. Like, do you think they’re still up there in the sky somewhere? I know all of our friends up on the plane. So I think maybe perhaps that might have been a little nod to that conversation they had earlier. 

Todd:  I didn’t even think about that. 

Craig:  Yeah. It’s a good catch. 

Todd:  The way I saw that scene was as it was coming out of white, I did feel like, Craig, like you said, like it was the white light and we were going down this passage. But then as it faded in, I thought it looked like a hospital corridor, like he’s being pushed down a gurney. And then as it fades in even more because, you know, you hear the voices, and that’s such a typical shot, you know, in movies of the the slowly fading into the hospital gurney thing. But then, you’re right. It becomes this, this airplane hallway. And I don’t know if that was intentional for you to kinda get that double or triple take, but that’s that’s what happened to me anyway. And I thought it was a great shot. 

Craig:  Yeah. I liked it a lot. And and then it’s a a nice surprise when you see that, the remaining survivors, Clea and, Carter are on a plane and it says 6 months later. And at first, you think it’s gonna be just the 2 of them, and and they talk about how they’re final you know, we’re finally here. We’re finally in Paris after all this time. And then Alex walks into the shot. So you realize that how, you know, somehow he was saved. You know, they got him to a hospital or they did CPR or somehow, he’s back.   And the 3 of them, I guess, you know, to kind of celebrate that they’ve, gotten through this ordeal, have decided to go to Paris together. And we see them at this little, you know, very typically Parisian, outside cafe, where they’ve all got drinks and they’re just kind of reminiscing about, you know, we all got through this. Maybe we were meant to. And and Carter who has been such a a jerk throughout the whole thing is like If you would have told 

Simone:  me 6 months ago that the 3 of 

Craig:  us would be sitting here having a drink. 

Simone:  Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, sometimes it just feels like the 2 of you are the only ones you can really understand. 

Craig:  And this is when, Alex starts telling them that he’s been thinking about it a lot, and he’s worried that he may have overlooked something. And he pulls out, you know, that that diagram that he had before about the order, and, you know, they don’t wanna hear it. You know, it’s 6 months later, it’s over, they don’t wanna keep rehashing it. But he insists, and it’s only in this moment, 6 months later, that he realizes or remembers, oh, wait a minute. In my premonition, I had already switched seats with somebody. But in real life I never switched the seats. So we had the order wrong. And then he starts, you know, again seeing all these clues.   And and again you wonder, is he just being paranoid? You know, it’s 6 months later. You would think that 6 months later something would have happened by now. And I actually kinda think that’s a little bit of a flaw in the storytelling, like why all of a sudden is Death now waiting 6 months 

Simone:  to Yes. 

Craig:  When everything else had happened in a matter of like 2 days. But then we, you know, it makes for a fun and exciting final scene. 

Simone:  Yes. And I think that the series always, or at least some of the movies in the series kind of has that kind of ending gag scene where someone just gets completely reamed. But, Todd, you brought this up earlier when we were watching the movie, and that you’re like, well, how do you know when death is going to strike? I mean, could it be tomorrow? Could it be 10 minutes from now? Could it be 10 years from now? Which I think is kind of a really interesting point that you’re right. That these these freak accidents all of a sudden start happening one after another very shortly after the plane Craig. But now all of a sudden death is just okay with waiting patiently for them to go back to Paris, where it all might, like, kind of began. 

Todd:  Yeah. Right. So is it so the idea behind these movies is pretty much like the first one then. There’s some freak there’s some accent that some people get out of that they shouldn’t have gotten out of and that kinda marks them. Is that kinda how it is? 

Simone:  Yes. 

Todd:  Okay. 

Craig:  Yep. Everyone. Everyone. Yeah. And and in this one, you know, so Alex figures all this out and, he gets up to try to go away and tells the other people to stay away from him. And again, we see this sequence of things happening where, there’s a car accident which causes, like, some kind of, construction accident that that make sends this bar flying and, breaks this enormous, lighted sign, and it starts to swing down into the street where Alex is standing, and you think it’s gonna hit him, and he knows that he’s supposed to be next. But at the very last second, Carter jumps in and and moves him out of the way. And, he’s and, Carter, I think says or or no, Alex says, yeah.   You you did it. You you you know, you saved me. And Carter says, well, if I save you, then who’s next? And we see behind him this, the sign swinging back. And I read somewhere that, you know, it, it, it, it was like a 180, you know, it swung one way, and then it did a 180, which is the flight number, and comes back. And we don’t even see the impact. It cuts to black right before the impact, but we hear it. And I thought that was, you know, sad for Carter, I guess, but, a nice a nice, ending. A fun ending. 

Todd:  Yes. Oh, it’s fantastic. It’s a fun ending to a fun movie. And I guess I’ve forgotten how fun the movie was. Somewhere in my mind, it got jumbled in with, I Know What You Did Last Summer and the other Scream movies. And, again, it really follows that nineties horror movie trope of being really clever and being really high concept and having lots of really good looking white teenagers, in their suburban neighborhoods. You know? But but, honestly, it’s it’s a little better than that. And now that you have compared it to the Saw franchise in a way that you’d watch it subsequent ones just to kind of unpack the puzzles, I could totally get into this.   I think I’m gonna watch the others. 

Simone:  I think I think we should do a movie marathon of the other ones, because they they really are fantastic. And And just like I remember going to go see the other Saw films of like, Oh, what’s going to be the next elaborate trap? What’s Jigsaw’s plot this time? You totally just go to see how these people are gonna bite the dust. You wanna see these, like, what freak accidents are they gonna come up to next? And and they really are, fun. 

Craig:  Well, that’s what I was you know, with with this the subsequent ones, the second one is and they all kind of tie to the first one. The second one, the character of Clear, comes back She’s the only recurring character that I remember. And they make reference to the first one throughout, but really the movies don’t have to be connected. And that’s what I like about the series is that it’s really just kind of an anthology series. You get different characters and different circumstances in every one, and that’s why I’m glad to hear that there may be another one in production and I hope that they continue to make them. You could set one way in the past, you could set one in the future, it can be contemporary, it doesn’t make any difference because the concept works regardless of place or time. And I think that, you know, whoever came up with this idea, which originally I I read that, it this was, it it began as a concept for an episode of The X Files, and just developed into, you know, its own thing. But it it it’s so smart.   Whoever came up with it was so smart because it’s just it’s limitless what you could do with it. 

Todd:  Oh, that’s so true. And what happened to the character what happened to the actors in this movie? I mean, Alex? What was his name? 

Simone:  Devin Thawal. 

Clip:  Well, have I 

Todd:  have I seen him and I just don’t realize? Has he did he do much after this? 

Simone:  Yeah. Actually, in the opening scene, where, Alex is in his room, there’s a movie poster behind him. And I forget the name of the movie poster, but it’s actually another movie that he was in that I think that they were kind of advertising and pushing for the time. But Devin Sawah, and this is just because I loved him so much, He was he was Casper in the nineties movie Casper with Christina Ricci. He was in a movie Wild America, with another nineties love of mine, Jonathan Taylor Thomas. Uh-huh. But he was also in another horror movie called Idle Hands, which is kind of a campy horror film, also starring Seth Green. Oh.   And it’s it’s phenomenal. His hand, is possessed by the devil. It’s hilarious. Yeah. He murders people, or his hand rather, murders people. So, I don’t think these actors, besides Shawn Williams, got really kind of playing on that role in probably every film he’s ever done. I haven’t seen too much of. 

Craig:  Well, Ali Larter Ali Larter who played Clear, she’s done a lot. She was in heroes and, she’s still working. This was one of her early movies. Another one of her, early movies was Drive Me Crazy with Melissa Joan Hart and, you know, she she kinda in earlier in her career, she always kinda played the tough girl. And I guess even later in her career, but she, you know, as as she developed out of her, you know, early twenties into, into, you know, adulthood, she became really kind of this bombshell sexy lady. And, she’s, you know, I still see her popping up in things from time to time. And, but you’re right, you know, I don’t think a lot of them, aside from Sean William Scott, who it seems like his star is kind of fading now a little bit Todd, they didn’t go on to do a whole lot, but, I thought that it was a good cast, you know? It was a nice ensemble cast. Yeah.   They played to stereotypes, quite a bit, but, you know, you you you get invested in the characters, and, it’s it’s it was it’s a fun ride overall. 

Todd:  It really is. And I I gained a lot more appreciation for it the second time around. Alright. Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you like this episode, please share it with a friend. We’re on iTunes and in Stitcher. And we also have social media accounts. We’re on Facebook, and, Twitter.   If you like what you, heard, please drop us a comment there. Let us know, movie we should see, and, we’re always looking for suggestions. Until that next time, I’m Todd. 

Craig:  I’m Craig. 

Simone:  And I’m Simone. Thank you for having me. 

Todd:  With two guys, a gal, and a chainsaw.

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