The Curse (1987)

Episode 492, 2 Guys and A Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw

I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. Craig, this week it was your turn, and you picked a movie. I’m really happy you picked it because I never saw it before, but I pass by it on the shelves all the time. It has a very iconic cover art. It’s got, like, this big demonic hand coming up through farm fields holding, like, a farmhouse in it with the lightning striking around it and the…

I don’t know, it just looks really freaky, like some demonic forces are taking over some small town, and it has Wil Wheaton in it. This is 1987’s The Curse. We did The Curse Part II, and there’s a Curse Part III and a Curse Part IV. All of them are made from, uh, by Italians, including this one, and none of them are really related to each other.

No. They’re just sequels in name only to capitalize on the apparent success and popularity of the original. 

Craig: Cult success, yeah. 

Todd: Yeah. The first time I had seen it, but I know you have seen this one before, right? 

Craig: Yeah. I grew up watching this. I don’t know which of my memories are real and which ones are constructed, but I seem to remember watching this with my cousins, Nick and Steve, some summer.

We always rented tons of horror movies back in the day when you just said, “Yeah, my dad said it was okay,” and they’d, you know, hand you R-rated movies over the counter or whatever. 

Todd: Those were the days. 

Craig: And our dads really did say… I know. It- those were the days. And our dads really did say it was okay, but it was a different time.

And of course, I was just drawn to horror movies in general, but I was a big fan of Wil Wheaton’s, because this came out just, I think, a year after or a year or so after his big breakout in Stand by Me, which is, remains one of my- 

Todd: Mm … 

Craig: favorite movies, uh, of all time. I, I think it’s a great movie, and I think that he’s fantastic in it.

So, you know, seeing him… And of course, this movie, which was shot on a, a much smaller budget, i- is, is not nearly as good and does not showcase his skills nearly as much, but- … seeing him on, on the box certainly drew me to it. Oh, boy. And, you know, I was a fan of it then, and I know that I’ve seen it since. I think I, you know, pull it out or, or pull it up some, from somewhere every once in a while and, and watch it, but I haven’t seen it in a really long time.

And again, you know, you and I sometimes mention how watching these movies, you know, on our own just for fun is kind of a different experience than watching them for the podcast. Like, we really do try to kind of watch more closely and with a more critical eye and try to look at the different components of it and stuff.

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: And so doing that this time- It’s far from perfect. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: There, 

Todd: there’s- Uh, Wil Wheaton himself is not a fan. I don’t even think he… I think he refuses to sign materials related to this movie when he’s at conventions. 

Craig: He does, and the movie is interesting because it’s, it’s an adaptation of- 

Todd: H.P.

Lovecraft … 

Craig: H- H.P. Lovecraft’s The Color Out of Space, which I haven’t read, but I hear is Lovecraft’s own personal favorite of his short stories. They Americanized the story and, and have some social commentary on the economic stuff that was going on with farmers in, un- in the Reagan area, era at the time.

So it’s inspired by the story, and the key elements of the story are there, but it’s, it, it’s definitely an adaptation. Really, what goes on behind the scenes is kind of more interesting than the movie itself. 

Todd: Hmm. 

Craig: The movie was directed by David Keith, who is an actor. He was in An Officer and a Gentleman, and he was in, like, Major League and, and some other stuff, and he’s continued to work since then.

But the studio that made the movie, and I don’t remember what it was, had signed him on to star in another movie, and when that fell through, they offered him this as his directorial debut. And Wil Wheaton said that he was just awful, that he was… You know, he had a, a big ego, you know, coming off of his acting career.

But he had never directed before, didn’t know what he was doing. Said he was coked out all the time and just chasing skirt all the time, like was not a good director at all. And on top of that, like, Wil Wheaton didn’t even wanna do the movie. He didn’t like the script, you know. Stand by Me had done so well, and he had gotten so much, you know, great critical response, not just the film itself, but him specifically.

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: Um, and, and he didn’t wanna do this dumb horror movie, but his mother… And he doesn’t… You know, in the stuff that I saw, he doesn’t talk extensively about his parents, but they don’t sound great because I guess his mom kind of arranged this meeting with the producers and the filmmakers without his agent present.

And they kind of strong-armed him into taking the movie. His, his parents, I guess, were enticed… Th- they were gonna pay Wheaton $100,000 for the role, which I guess was big for him at the time, even though I also read that he only ended up, he himself only ended up making 15 cents on the dollar for that. 

Todd: Wow.

Craig: So, a big salary for him. They did the outdoor photography on David Keith’s farm. It was initially- … supposed to be, it was initially supposed to be filmed in Los Angeles, but he, Keith, had just bought a big ranch in Tennessee, and he’s like, “No, let’s just shoot it on my ranch.” So they did. So the outdoor stuff was all filmed there, but the, the, all of the interior shots were shot in Rome.

So the whole family was also gonna get a free trip to Rome, and they were gonna give Wil Wheaton’s real-life little sister, Amy Wheaton, a role in the film. 

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: So that was a real sweet deal according to his parents, and they kind of strong-armed him into signing it And apparently it was just a nightmare from beginning to end.

You know, he- Wil Wheaton says that he and his sister both were both physically and verbally and mentally abused on the set. He says that he was touched inappropriately by two adults in the production and that he didn’t feel protected by any of them. Ironically enough, the person that he felt most protected by was the guy that played the creepy older brother character in the movie-

who he said in real life was very gentle and loving and was really kind of one of the only people who stepped up to protect him and his little sister, Wil and his little sister. 

Todd: Man. 

Craig: And, and not only that, but after… They filmed all of the outdoor photography first in America, but then they sw- moved production to Rome and completely ignored all American child labor laws.

So he and his sister were working 12-hour days with no breaks five days a week, a- again, being physically abused. One of the most shocking things that I read, there’s a scene in the movie, we’ll talk about it when we get there in the plot, but there’s a scene in the movie where the little girl, Wil Wheaton’s little sister, is attacked by chickens and, and that whole thing, reading about how that was done is nightmarish.

But what I found particularly disturbing was that in the aftermath of that, she’s supposed to have scratches on her face, and this was all done in Italy. Rather… The makeup folks, rather than- 

Todd: Applying makeup … 

Craig: applying makeup would cut her with a scalpel- 

Todd: That’s crazy … 

Craig: to make those marks on her face. Now, I can’t imagine how they could have justified that.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: I, I, I mean, I imagine they could have said, “Well, you know, scalpels are such fine instruments that it likely won’t scar.” But s- nonetheless, like, where were these kids’ parents? And if they were around, they were shit bag parents. 

Todd: Yeah. Was that not the sequence that was directed by an uncredited Lucio Fulci?

Craig: Well, he’s credited, but he’s only credited for effects and something else. But, like, I guess there’s a lot of debate about how much he actually put into it. Hm. Some people have claimed that really despite what… And by the way, he, he was credited, but with an Anglicized name, as were all of the Italian people who- Hm

worked on this. They Anglicized their names for the credits. But somebody, I don’t know if it was the director or another producer or something, said that Fulci really was the second unit director and that he did, he was really the one calling the shots most of the time And I can only imagine that that’s true because- 

Todd: You got this first-time d- 

Craig: Yeah, you got a first-time director, and particularly the second half of the movie just absolutely reeks of Fulci.

Like- 

Todd: Yeah. It’s true. 

Craig: And, and, and, and a lot of it is the special effects, but even just beyond that, the mood, the pacing, the cinematography, I mean, it, it just absolutely reeks of him. So I have a feeling that David Keith owes a lot more to Fulci than the credits give him credit for. But the reason that I throw all that right out there at the beginning is because I didn’t know any of that until today.

Mm. This was just a movie that I had watched when I was a kid, and something that has been on our list literally probably the entire time that we have been doing this podcast because it is something that I, I liked as a kid. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: But I wanted to get that all out of the way just so that people know that in talking about this movie, of course we in no way endorse or approve of any of that in the way that it was made.

And, and I completely 100% Understand why Wil Wheaton doesn’t want really anything to do with it, refuses to sign memorabilia for it, and, and eventually wrote an op-ed about why, you know, he has such distaste for it simply because he’s a great guy. Wil Wheaton is a really cool guy. 

Todd: Yeah, he is. 

Craig: And, you know, he is, is really great about meeting with fans and, you know, he’s a big fan of sci-fi and, and genre films himself.

You know, he’s kind of a fanboy, so he understands fans. I mean, he’s really, really good to fans. And he said that he just wanted to get it all out there because he felt the need, anytime anybody would bring something from The Curse, he felt the need to explain why he wouldn’t sign it. And, and so he just wanted to get it out there to try to have to avoid having to explain it every single time.

Todd: Yeah. Makes 

Craig: sense. So anyway, it’s got an kind of an ugly backstory, but I think that we’ll ki- And we acknowledge that, and of course, we don’t approve or endorse o- of, you know, treating anybody that way, especially children. But we’ll look at it as a movie and, and just acknowledge that ugly stuff. 

Todd: Yeah.

We’ll talk about the artistic merits of this work of art and, uh, while acknowledging that maybe the production of it wasn’t… We’ve had to do this before with Clownhouse and- 

Craig: Right … 

Todd: several other films that, you know, have, uh, unfortunate histories, but, uh, let’s separate that for the purposes of our discussion today and just talk about the movie as a movie, and, uh, that’s what we’re gonna do.

I, I wondered if you have different opinions about this film now as you did when you were a kid. Watching it now fresh with adult eyes, do you feel differently about it? 

Craig: I guess so. I mean, I don’t know how I responded to certain things when I was younger, but the core of the story, the sci-fi part of it, and the special effects part of it, I think still stand up.

I mean, it’s still very B movie, but as a movie it stands up. There’s a lot of fat that could’ve been trimmed, just unnecessary stuff, like stupid stuff like- All of that stuff with the dumb, I don’t know what he is, like the real estate guy- 

Todd: Yeah … 

Craig: Charlie Davidson. 

Todd: What’s the point of any 

Craig: of that? Trying to buy their farm and, you know, like, I don’t know, at some point there’s some talk about, like, there’s like a, a dam is gonna go up and they’re…

Todd: I don’t know. There’s- It doesn’t matter. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: Yeah. Like, it, this isn’t a Goonies situation where the plot hinges on these people being motivated by the potential of their farm being sold or their land being taken from them, that that motivates them in any way, shape, or form throughout the plot of the movie.

No, it’s just, like, a thing that fills time. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: That this guy’s running around and apparently trying to sell these farmers’ land for them, and that’s it. But it doesn’t matter a whit to the story. That character, that whole bit could be excised from the movie and it would make no difference whatsoever, so it’s really weird that it’s in there.

Craig: It is. A- a- and, and I feel like there are other parts maybe, too, that maybe I’ll remember as we go through in my notes. I don’t know. But other parts that seem to be kind of inserted for comedy that just seemed unnecessary. I, I, I think the movie would’ve been better if it had been more isolated, if it had, it focused, you know, i- if it had stayed on the farm and focused on that family dynamic and…

‘Cause that’s interesting. Yeah. I mean, the, the setup is interesting. I mean, first of all, there’s a, there’s a cold open where cops are racing up to this house and, and they have to, you know, tear this guy out of the house and he’s screaming, “There’s something in the water, the water,” and there’s sores on his face.

And as the cops are driving him down the street you see, you know, all these ways in which water is incorporated into day-to-day life. Like- Mm-hmm … kids are playing in the sprinkler, and somebody’s washing their car, and somebody’s watering their plants and blah, blah, blah. And, you know, he’s looking on in dread or whatever.

And then we cut to Tellico Plains, which is Tennessee, which is literally the place where David Keith’s ranch was- … six months earlier. And we get the title and, you know, we see all this farmland, and it’s… You know, we establish this family. It took me a minute to figure out how this family dynamic worked, but- Right

I think that I put together that the mother is a widow. Francis is the mother. 

Todd: Okay. 

Craig: And she’s a widow, and she had two kids, Zach, Wil Wheaton, and Alice, Amy Wheaton, in her first marriage. 

Todd: Okay. 

Craig: And then her husband died, and she married farmer Nathan, who already had a son of his own, Cyrus. Does that seem right to you?

Todd: I guess so. I, I really didn’t pay too much attention to that, and I realized it didn’t matter too much, I think, to the story. 

Craig: Well, right. I, you know, at, at first I thought that maybe Alice and Zach were, like, the mom’s niece and nephew, and that their parents had died and they had taken them in or something.

Oh, right. But, but I don’t think that that’s the case because they call her Mom. Zach refuses to call Nathan Dad or Pa or whatever. Right. I started just to refer to them as Ma and Pa, so That’s probably how I’ll refer to them moving forward. And later, you know, Alice especially, but both of the younger kids do seem to have genuine concern for Francis.

So I think that is their, their mother. 

Todd: Who is played by Kathleen Jordan Gregory, and this was her first and only role. I’m surprised. 

Craig: Yeah, I don’t know. She reminds me of somebody. She reminds me of a very famous character actress who I don’t know her name and I won’t be able to think of anything that you would remember her from.

But… A- and I think in my mind I remembered it being that woman, and so I was kinda surprised to see this person, but- 

Todd: Oh, gotcha … 

Craig: but anyway. And then the guy who plays Nathan or Pa- 

Todd: Yeah … 

Craig: who is he? 

Todd: Claude Akins. 

Craig: He’s the only person that I r- that I really recognize. Yeah. I mean, aside from Wil Wheaton, that I really recognize.

Todd: This guy is a veteran actor, 240 credits on IMDb, died in 1994. But he was just an actor from the beginning of film and television all the way up until he died. I mean, it’s, it’s pretty insane. A lot of Westerns, a lot of stuff. He started acting in 1953 and was all over television. Uh, I mean, I think if you’re our age you would recognize this guy, ’cause he was on- I think so

TV a lot, and he has a very distinct look. But yeah, mostly television, little bit parts here and there and stuff. Yeah, Claude Akins, maybe the most famous person in this movie, especially by the time it, it came out. 

Craig: And then there’s a son. Uh, he’s got a son who, you know, like him is kind of this big stocky guy named Cyrus.

And Cyrus is just… He’s a caricature from the beginning. Like, he’s an oaf. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: He’s a heavy set, you know, goofy looking bully, you know, who wears, like, a football jersey crop top throughout the entire movie. Like- 

Todd: Yeah … 

Craig: he’s doofy. 

Todd: It’s worth mentioning that before this role, uh, this person who is, um… I’m sorry, is Malcolm Danare Or Denare.

Uh, he was in Flashdance, he was in Christine, which we’ve done here. 

Craig: Oh, oh, that’s right. I remember him from Christine. 

Todd: Mm-hmm, Mucci. And he was in National Lampoon’s European Vacation two years before this came out. 

Craig: I remember that, too. 

Todd: Since then he’s been in, like, Popcorn, which we’ve done. He was Bud in Popcorn.

Robin Hood: Men in Tights, Independence Day, that old Godzilla one that didn’t do too well. Uh, h- he’s still been doing things left and right, but his career’s slowed down considerably since the ’90s. 

Craig: That’s funny, ’cause I hadn’t recognized him from those things, but as soon as you mentioned a couple of those movies, I remember.

I can picture him. 

Todd: And you said he was the one who treated Wheaton really well. 

Craig: Well, yeah, yeah. Was he… You know, Wil Wheaton d- you know, a- and again, I’m, I’m taking this from YouTube videos and, but they’re, they’re citing the op-ed that, uh, Wheaton wrote, so I assume that it’s true. And yeah, so we, we meet the family and, eh, I don’t know.

I mean, uh, the dad seems kind of harsh, but- 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: I would say so … and, and it’s all, you know, this is all very rural. It’s all on a farm. This was all very nostalgic to me because this was how… I mean, without the religious fanaticism- 

Todd: Mm-hmm … 

Craig: this, this rural farm life was the way that my mom grew up- 

Todd: Hmm … 

Craig: and the way that my maternal grandparents lived.

And so, like, I would go and spend weekends or in the summer weeks with my mom’s parents, and this was what it was like. It was farm life and it was quaint and it was charming, and there was actually something that was really nice about that. Like, I look back on it now and think, “Wow, what a simpler and nicer time that was.”

But, uh, but my grandpa wore bib o- you know, denim bib overalls with flannel shirts underneath, you know, almost every day. And my, my grandmother wore those, you know, light summer shifts and would cook a full country breakfast every morning and, you know, we would have chores and do the gardening and all that stuff, and it was, it was really cool.

I, I feel kinda privileged that I got to experience that as a kid, ’cause I, I’m not sure that a lot of people did. 

Todd: Hmm. 

Craig: So that part of the movie, even though Nathan, the dad, is, is kind of gruff in the beginning, I mean, he just kind of seems to be kind of no-nonsense business or whatever. 

Todd: That’s a goddamn lie.

Clip: Do not blaspheme the Lord. I don’t care how it started, but it’s stopping now. “Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love.” Romans 12:10. Now, let’s shake hands and be as brothers 

Craig: However, he doesn’t seem to be a very nice guy and I’m not really sure why he’s married to this woman. You know, there’s the part where we meet Charlie Davidson, the smarmy business guy who’s trying to get Nathan to sell his farm.

Who cares? Mm-hmm. Then we see that the wife is lusting over this hulking, very hairy farmhand. 

Todd: Yes. 

Craig: And after… You, you know, she pretties herself all up. She puts on makeup and brushes her hair all out and she tries to make advances on her husband in bed and he, like, totally rebuffs her. He’s like, “No, it’s improper.

Man oughta be the one making the advances, not the woman 

Todd: Okay, so do it 

Craig: Yeah, and she’s like- Right, exactly 

Todd: Right 

Craig: And so she’s like, “Fine, I’ll go out to that hairy farmhand.” Uh-huh. And so she does. 

Todd: She does. And this is another thing that goes nowhere. Like, it’s so weird that you would set these things up in the script that have potential and then just drop them.

Craig: It goes nowhere in that… Okay, so while she’s out there banging the farmhand, there’s a big storm and then a big meteor, a big glowing meteor lands on the farm and leaves like a big, you know- Oh, my God … trail in its wake. Like, it’s huge. 

Todd: It is massive, but it looks a lot smaller every single time we see it after this.

Craig: Well, because it shrinks, right. But Nath- when everybody runs out when this happens, and Nathan runs out, and when he runs out, he sees Francis and the farmhand coming out of the cottage. Now, we never see the farmhand again. 

Todd: Yes. 

Craig: I guess Nathan must have dismissed him after this. And this does, like this whole subplot of her having an affair with the farmhand does seem completely, like it, it, it seems like it doesn’t matter, except for later when things start to go bad- 

Todd: Yeah

Craig: Nathan blames- Nathan gets pissed … her. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: He says, “This is God’s punishment for what you did.” 

Todd: True. “

Craig: He’s punishing us all for what you did.” So there is that little connection there. But yeah, I mean, in the moment, Nathan like gives her a look, and she looks at him, and then they just go look at the meteor, and we never see the farmhand again and life goes on.

Like it- 

Todd: Right, and think- It just 

Craig: seems really weird … 

Todd: think about where you could have taken the story. Think about the interesting drama if you had kept that guy in the picture. Could’ve been cool. It’s just weird that it was dropped. I don’t know. Yeah. What, what, what we mostly get is a, as far as family dynamics go, is this completely overbearing father- 

Craig: Right

Todd: who just is just a taskmaster and very strict and very godly and very, yeah, just kind of your, I mean, textbook movie religious conservative country father is what we have here. 

Craig: Right. Mm-hmm. And like you can imagine the backstory for yourself, but it’s not given to you. And I, I feel like there was so much more opportunity.

This movie… Well, this movie wasn’t remade, but another adaptation of this fil- of, of Lovecraft’s story was made in 2019 with Nicolas Cage. It was title, same, used same title as the story, Color Out of Space. 

Todd: Did you see it? 

Craig: Yes, but I don’t remember anything about it. 

Todd: Not a good sign. 

Craig: No, no, no, no. I, I, I think I remember liking it.

I, I remember it being very psychedelic and, you know, lots and lots of neon color, which it should be because the main story, the, the actual story, though I haven’t read it, is about a meteor, I think, that falls to the Earth, but then- I guess the pollutant, if you wanna call it that, is a light, a light that is on a different frequency than any light that we have or have ever seen before 

Todd: and- 

Craig: Hmm

the light starts to have an impact on the vegetation and the people. 

Todd: That’s cool. 

Craig: Here, a- and, and so, and I, i- if I remember correctly, the family dynamic is explored more, and it may be completely different, but it’s still a farmer. Nicolas Cage is a farmer, and he’s got a family. I remember that much about it.

So I can only imagine that the family dynamic was explored more there. We should watch that movie too so we can compare. 

Todd: Yeah. I’m kinda curious now. I, actually, I pulled up the story. I’m gonna read that tonight before I go to bed. 

Craig: Yeah. There’s also a doctor that lives next door, a doctor of what I don’t really know, but they, they- Yeah.

Todd: Isn’t he like teaching in a school at the time wh- that we meet him? 

Craig: I think he’s an MD, but I’m not, I… But they just treat him as, like, just a general scientist, like he should just know about anything. 

Todd: Someone literally calls him a scientist at one point. “You’re the scientist.” Yeah, like, okay. You’re the 

Craig: scientist.

Todd: He looked more like a doctor. I don’t know. 

Craig: Yeah. Zach runs and gets him, and when he comes back they’re all kinda standing around it, and it looks like a giant glowing potato. Like- But it’s huge. It’s, it’s- It’s round … it’s, it’s taller than a man. 

Todd: Hmm. 

Craig: And the doctor says, “Oh, I’m sure it’s nothing to worry about.

I’m sure this enormous glowing- 

Todd: Orb … 

Craig: thing that feels cold to the touch is nothing to worry about.” He’s like, “Just wait until the experts come and give it the all clear. I’m sure it’s fine.” 

Todd: This is so ridiculous. 

Craig: And, you know, uh, the, the real estate guy, Davidson, convinces him not to call in the EPA. He’s like, “I’m sure it’ll be fine.”

Todd: Right? 

Craig: Be- he doesn’t want the EPA coming in because then that could mess up, you know, the real estate stuff. His land sale. Whatever. Overnight, the meteor shrinks and stops glowing, and the doc, like, chisels into it and goo comes out. But again, Davidson convinces him not to say anything about it. And then in the nighttime it glows and sweats and melts and seeps into the ground, all while Zach is standing there watching this happen as fog rolls all around him.

Todd: It’s 

Craig: so weird. 

Todd: It’s funny. It’s just like- Ugh. Uh, all of this just feels very unrealistic. It’s weird that these people just keep this quiet. It’s weird these people are not more panicked about this. I mean, there’s a crowd of pe- This isn’t a The Blob situation where a guy and his dog are out in the forest, you know, and come across this little meteor and get gooed.

No, this is like a big giant thing that made a big ruckus, and everybody’s crowded around it the next day e- even when the doctor’s poking into it and all that stuff. Where are the experts? Of course somebody would’ve called this in. Of course- 

Craig: Right … 

Todd: this would be a, a thing of major study. And here, it literally gets forgotten.

It’s like it’s not even referenced again. And I thought- 

Craig: Well, it kind of is, but it’s so stupid because, like, I don’t know, it’s almost as though because it melts away, the doctor’s like, “Oh, well, guess it’s fine.” 

Todd: Right? 

Craig: Because he comes the next morning while they’re all sitting around the table having breakfast.

He says, “Good news, it was just airline sewage.” And what, what does the dumb guy say? What does stupid Cyrus say? He’s like, “Airplane doo-doo,” or something like that. Yeah, something kid-like. And they all just laugh. Like, isn’t that funny? 

Todd: Oh my God. 

Craig: Okay. And then you see how Nathan uses a ground well to sustain his farm.

And my grandpa- grandparents used a ground well. Like- 

Todd: Hmm … 

Craig: their, their faucet water came from a well out in their front yard. I’d never seen a well like this where it was just totally exposed. Like, it was ground-level and completely open. Like- Right … that seems unsanitary anyway. The, the wells that I’ve seen have at least been covered so, like, shit isn’t getting in there or whatever, but- 

Todd: Yeah.

Bodies, corpses, whatever. 

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. So, so we see- So we, so we see the wa- You know, all of this is very mundane, but when played against the, like, ominous score, like, oh, the water’s going everywhere, I mean, it does give the impression that really if you were to consider this scenario, it is frightening because we can’t survive without water.

Todd: Right. It’s just part of everything we do every day, yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. We rely on it for everything. And so, you know, he’s, he’s watering his plants, he’s watering his animals. He’s, he’s got this beautiful orchard. He’s spraying his apples. 

Todd: Yeah. It’s like a whole commercial for the beauty and, and, and value of water that we get here.

Craig: Yeah, right. And I d- I’m not sure how they did all this. I don’t know if they had set dressers dressing the trees or whatever because I read that they filmed this in the dead of winter. And, and I don’t think it often snows in Tennessee, but it gets pretty cold even that far south. So- Hmm … I think they were pretty miserable shooting all of this too.

And then we find out that the Tennessee Valley Authority is in town, and I guess they’re there to check the water because who knows? Who cares? But there’s this guy, Willis, who shows up and is around, and he’s just, like, checking water and stuff. But Ma goes out to the garden, and this is in keeping with the story as I understand it.

She goes out to pick the vegetables, and her- garden looks amazing 

Todd: Mm-hmm. She’s really excited at first. Yeah 

Craig: Yeah, everything’s in full blossom and, you know, the, the vegetables are like, you know, sparkling with dew, and they’re just huge, and they all look fantastic. And she takes them inside to start cleaning them up and processing them, and she smells a cabbage and kinda gets a funky look on her face and puts it down on the cutting board and cuts into it.

And when she cuts into it- 

Todd: Ugh … 

Craig: this is where the fulci begins. 

Todd: Oh, yeah. Good way of putting it. Yeah, it is nasty. 

Craig: It is just nasty, practical goo effect, and it is unnatural colors, like purple and yellow and- 

Todd: Ugh … 

Craig: slimy and oozy and just the grossest, most unappetizing thing you can imagine. 

Todd: Yeah, and then she goes to cut into a tomato, and suddenly it’s The Evil Dead where- 

Craig: Yes

Todd: you just get sprayed in the face with… I… That didn’t even make sense. That was a weird- Of course not … choice. 

Craig: But this is where we’re getting into that, you know, up until now it’s kind of been kind of Americana, slow build- 

Todd: Very 

Craig: slow … kind of suspense kind of thing, and now it takes a hard left into a very Italian sensibility with all of these special effects and gore.

Todd: But it’s weird that I’m… And when you say slow, it’s very slow. Like, this is 30 minutes in, I think, when this happens of a, of an hour and 28-minute movie. Did you not feel that this was a little drawn out? Or maybe you’ve seen this movie so many times that this passes by you, but me, me seeing it for the first time, I just couldn’t help but be like, “I was promised a horror movie.”

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: You know? I, I get this meteor landing and all that. There’s a lot of promise here, but 30 minutes in I’m really waiting for something more than gooey vegetables, you know? 

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: And then I look at the clock, I’m like, “God, we’re a third of the way through already.” I felt that was one of the issues that I think a modern viewer would, would find with this one, including me.

Craig: Yeah, I think my familiarity with it had something to do with it. I think it may have also helped, yesterday was Alan’s birthday and I started watching this, you know, right before he got off work, and then he got off work so I wanted to hang out with him. So, like, I, you know, probably around this point I paused it and took a break and came back to it later.

And so- 

Todd: Right … 

Craig: I kinda got, like, the 30-minute exposition in one chunk, and then the 50-minute or an hour, whatever, rest of it- And it does kind of feel divided into those two parts. Mm-hmm. It feels like the first 30 minutes exposition and okay, now we’re in it. Let’s, let’s get it going. 

Todd: Yeah. But even then it’s quite slow.

I mean, there, 

Craig: there’s- Even then it be- because there are, like, these interstitial scenes that don’t make any difference. 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: Right at this point, there’s, like, a 10-minute scene between the annoying real estate guy and the Tennessee Valley Association guy. Like- Yeah … and the Tennessee Valley Association guy is kind of bumbling.

He’s actually very good-looking, but they’ve got him in these big glasses, and he’s kind of bumbling. And he just says, like, the real estate guy sits down next to him at the diner and is like, “Hey, I just wanted to welcome you to the town,” or whatever. And the Tennessee Valley guy’s like, “Oh, well, I’m kinda new at this, and my work is top secret.”

What? Like- … what top secret work is he doing? We never find out. 

Todd: No. It’s so 

Craig: weird. He’s just hanging around. And so then Charlie’s like, “Well, I’ll drive you around.” And, and then they do. Like, they dri- Like, it’s, like, a little, like… Like, as they’re driving down the road, like, a little buddy moment for a second that goes nowhere.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: It’s just them driving in a car for a second. They don’t even go anywhere. 

Todd: And again, this whole plot of this real estate thing and him bribing the local officials and whatever, I think there was probably… And maybe, maybe if you read the script, you’d have a different impression, or maybe if you made the movie, you were thinking you were really going for this angle, that there’s this alternate aspect to this that there’s some pressure involved where once it becomes obvious there’s clearly something wrong with this land or these people or this water, weird things are happening.

There’s this other force that’s trying to hide it or pres- fix it real fast so that their, it’s, you know, their money’s at stake, their business is at stake, and they don’t want that to go up. I mean, again, this is another aspect where this movie really introduced a thing that could have really added intrigue and interest to the plot, but it doesn’t.

It go, it just, it, they just leave it dangling and don’t incorporate it in. It, it’s so weird that they have these bits except to stretch out the time. 

Craig: Well, and there are also random characters that are so underdeveloped that I’m not sure how I’m supposed to feel about them. Like Zach is s- wisely stealing water from the doc.

The doc is their neighbor, and he’s stealing water from their hose so it’s not coming from the well, and he’s drinking that and he’s trying to give it to his sister as much as possible. But while he’s doing that, we see his wife do some weird seductive thing where she’s… There’s, it’s such a weird shot where, like, the doctor’s just kind of ho-humming in his bed, like, “Oh, boy, I don’t know what to do,” and then-

the wife’s leg just comes into frame and- Oh, my God … this striptease music comes on. 

Todd: I am telling you, when this happened, I thought that YouTube had started playing an ad. I, I, I was like, “Oh…” And, and then, and then, like, there was a weird transition and the ad was way too short and I was like, “Wait a minute, did I just miss something?”

And I rewound it, you know, a minute and a half and I was like, “No, this was the mo- This was a part of the movie.” It made no sense. 

Craig: No, it didn’t make any sense. Like, how- Well, and I don’t under- Why? The, the doctor seems nice and his wife seems nice, too, except for that she’s, like, in cahoots with the real estate guy.

So is she, like, some sexy vixen who is just seducing the doc to, like, steal his land? Like- 

Clip: I guess. Who knows? 

Craig: The character is so underdeveloped. Like, it’s so undeveloped I have no idea 

Todd: Oh, God. Does it matter? It’s just such a weird s- it’s not even a whole scene. It’s just a cut 

Craig: No, no. And then it comes back to her for a second oiling her leg, and that’s it.

Like, you just see her oi- like, I don’t even think you see her face or anything. It’s just- No … a shot of a- Of a leg … woman oiling her leg, and then it cuts away again. 

Todd: You think this is gonna be important later. Uh, no, it’s nothing. It’s absolutely nothing. It is so out of place. Visually, it doesn’t match the rest of the movie.

Tonally, it doesn’t match the rest of the movie at all. 

Craig: There’s that weird music cue that’s so- Oh, 

Todd: yeah … out of pla- 

Craig: it’s so strange. 

Todd: It’s like somebody else scored it. It’s so bizarre. But- It’s 

Craig: weird. And he, 

Todd: When that’s happening, Wil Wheaton is, uh, his character is filling- 

Craig: Canteen … 

Todd: canteen from the hose. That was interesting.

I thought, “Oh, that’s right,” because of course, like, the city-provided water isn’t gonna be the same- Should 

Craig: be fine, right … 

Todd: yeah, as the well water, and so he’s outside their window doing that. 

Craig: Right. And then we start to see how the water is affecting the farm. The mom is serving it in a pitcher at dinner.

It’s very cloudy. It’s gross. When the little girl says, “It tastes funny,” the guy’s like, the dad’s like, “That’s just the minerals in it. It’s good for you. 

Todd: Eat up. You’re not gonna leave this table till you eat everything on your plate and all those, both those glasses are empty.” 

Craig: Even the food looks disgusting- Yeah.

Yeah … and, like, Cyrus is, like, chowing down on it. It’s, like, slimy, nasty chicken, just looks rotten and gross. Oh, man. It’s so gross. And then Cyrus gets attacked by a horse. The animals are acting weird, and there’s, like, a comic bit where Wil Wheaton drops the barbed wire fence on his butt and, but then he’s, like, leaned over the kitchen table with his ass out so his mom can put iodines on, on it with-

a Q-tip or whatever, but instead she’s playing Connect the Dots. Like, she’s losing it. And she’s getting these big boils on her face, and then there’s another scene with the real estate guy who’s like, “Charlie,” or, uh, “Nathan, you better sell your farm.” And the f- Nathan’s like, “No, I’ve got this huge, beautiful crop of apples.

That’s gonna carry me through.” But then they cut into the apples, and they’re all just full of worms. 

Todd: Yeah. Every single one. 

Craig: Um, so the, the whole crop is destroyed, and that’s then when Alice gets attacked by the chickens. Now, every account that I’ve read said that Fulci definitely directed this scene, and this is one of the ones that Wil Wheaton took most exception with because his sister was nine years old at the time, and they tied these chickens to her wrists and ankles so that they couldn’t get…

And, and, and threw them at her so that she couldn’t get away from them, and they couldn’t get away from her. And, and of course, they were agitated and were really pecking her, so she was really in distress, which is terrible and awful 

Todd: These Italian directors were almost as bad as Hitchcock. 

Craig: Yeah. Right?

Todd: When you, when you hear about the things, and then even later on, you know, they’ve– some of them have spoken up and said, “Yeah, I think I might have gone a bit too far.” Yeah. “I kind of regret this. I kind of regret that.” Like, what a time in the ’70s, man, and ’80s and Oh, God 

Craig: Well, and it’s one… But it’s… God, it’s, it’s never okay 

Todd: No 

Craig: But it’s one thing when you’re working with adults.

It- when you’re working with kids, that’s just, that’s despicable. 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: But in the aftermath of it, you see the dead chickens, and their eyes and their mouths are all oozing this pussy goo. All of this stuff is so gross. And, like, I’m not a huge gross-out fan, but I can appreciate it that when that’s what you’re going for and it’s done well, I’m like, “Yeah, that’s really gross.”

The, the doctor is concerned, but Pa says everything is okay. Ma now has big boils on her face and is talking to herself, and is sitting… They’re all sit- it’s very quaint. They’re all sitting in the living rooms. You know, Cyrus is watching TV. I think Amy is playing with something. I don’t remember what Zach is doing.

The dad’s working on bills, and the mom is just sitting and sewing. It looks like she’s mending a stocking or something. But she’s talking to herself in a really creepy way, and then she also starts kind of wincing and, and whining in pain, and they realize that she’s sewing the stocking to her hand. 

Todd: Ugh.

Yeah, gross. Also, her face is a little dist- like, she’s got some gross- 

Craig: Boils … 

Todd: yeah, boils- Like these weird- … or weird things- … disgusting boils … on her cheek, yeah, which again, y- you know, is something that maybe you would pass off as something that would normally happen, and so it could go there for- 

Craig: Except these are so exaggerated.

Like- Well, eventually, yeah … they’re disgusting. Mm-hmm. I mean, even at this point, it’s not like they look like… If anybody I knew had something like that on my, on their face, I would get them to the hospital immediately. Like- Yeah. … there’s something very, very wrong with you. 

Todd: For sure. 

Craig: But again, you know, when she, after she does that, Zach goes to get the doctor again, but the, but Pa won’t let the doctor see her.

He’s like, “We take care of our own business.” But the doctor is concerned enough to take a sample from the well, so he does that. The EPA, or not EPA, the Tennessee Valley Association guy stops by and lets himself in, I guess, to check- Yeah … their water. 

Todd: Walks into their house, yeah. 

Craig: And Ma, who looks even crazier at this point…

I was getting ready to say, that’s one of the things, if I were to cite the best things about the movie, I would say that the progression of her transformation- Hmm … is one of the strongest things. It starts out relatively subtle, but it progresses like crazy. 

Todd: It’s far more subtle than, say, Mausoleum. Yeah, I, I- 

Craig: Yes

100% agree. Absolutely. But she’s still hanging out. I mean, she’s still hanging out with them at breakfast and stuff, but now Cyrus is getting the boils too, and Cyrus and the dad go out to tend the animals, and they find that the cows’ udders are all rotted and, like- Oh, that was so gross … there’s, like, slime.

Oh, it’s so disgusting. And he goes and he walks, the dad walks towards one of the cows, and I don’t remember if it’s laying down or standing up, but it’s got, like- A big flesh wound and there’s like maggots- Mm … writhing in it. And the camera like closes up on it and like the wound is like opening up and maggots are falling out, and then the whole wound explodes.

Todd: All 

Craig: over them. And shoots, yeah, shoots- Oh … gunk and maggots all- So gross … over the dad and Cyrus. It’s so gross. 

Todd: All these things that happen, they’re gross and they’re cool and as we’re running through them, you know, you’re like, “Okay, this is great.” But I have to say they were few and far between. I just felt like there was so much extra padding in between these scenes that I got bored.

You know? I, I got, I got to a point where I was like, “What, what new thing is gonna happen?” And Another disappointing thing about it is that nothing really new happens. What we’re getting is examples of the same thing over and over again. 

Craig: Pretty much. 

Todd: Except for the mother’s transformation, it feels kinda repetitive, and I think that adds to, by this point we’re almost an hour in and I’m like, “God,” like, “Let’s move this along.”

I get it, the water’s contaminated, people are getting infected, it’s making the animals go crazy. I saw like five examples of that, and I’m seeing people go crazy, and the kids aren’t drinking the water. I get that, so they’re the two immune folks. But like then 20 minutes later I expect to see something change.

That was the problem I had with it. I, I gotta admit to you, man, I watched this movie on YouTube on, on one quarter speed, and I was so g- so glad I did. I, I wish I had put it on one and a half speed. 

Craig: Yeah. I get what you’re saying. 

Todd: Be- because of how slow the, all that was, you know? It’s kinda one note. 

Craig: Yeah, that’s true.

I mean, at, at this point things are progressing, but even as they are progressing, there are still cuts away to scenes that we don’t care about. Like, we see the mom continue to progress. She, at one point, Zach is walking around downstairs. I don’t even know why, but he’s like kinda slowly walking around downstairs, and Ma pops up behind him, and she’s like full-out witch now.

Like- 

Todd: Yeah. She really is. Why is she in the same house? Who knows. 

Craig: I- it- it’s weird. And she screams and swings a poker around and barfs all over, and at this point Cyrus is acting crazy and he’s like sitting on top of the stairs like clapping like a little kid saying, “Kill her, Daddy-o. Kill her.” And- … you know, like Pa throws Ma in the cellar and Zach tries to take her some water, but she has like witch claws now.

Like- … big things are happening, but then also we have to cut to the doc who’s at the lab and who’s finding out that, uh, you know, he’s had the water tested and it’s got some previously undiscovered element in it that’s altering the molecular structure of the water. And then he calls the Tennessee Valley Association Willis guy and leaves him a message to meet him at the farm later.

And then there’s a dumb scene between the real estate guy and the doc’s wife where they’re plotting about how they’re gonna get Ma and Pa to sell the farm, and so they go to the farm and- 

Todd: Doesn’t matter. And 

Craig: it doesn’t matter because they don’t even get to Ma and Pa because they, she gets killed by the farm dogs Or at least we presume she does.

We see her get attacked, and then he goes down into the, the real estate guy goes down into the cellar and gets killed by Ma, who’s even more witchy now. There’s one great shot where he’s down there in the cellar, and the camera is pointed at him, and he’s lighting matches, and he strikes a match, and there’s nobody behind him, and it goes out.

And he strikes a match, and witchy mom is standing right behind him. E- e- even more gross and disgusting than the last time we saw her. Match goes out. Strikes the match again, she’s gone. But eventually she finds him and rips his throat out. Zach goes looking for his mom in the cellar again, but she’s not there.

Pa is only in shadow, and he says that they moved Ma upstairs. We see that he’s got boils all over now, and h- once they’re back in the house, he attacks Zach, and Cyrus, who’s all disgusting, covered in boils now with yellow goo s- oozing out of his mouth, confronts Alice in her room and picks her up over his head and throws her on the bed.

But Zach hits him with a bat and… Oh, God. I feel like we’re, you know, we’re setting- 

Todd: Yeah, this is like the last 10 minutes or 15 

Craig: minutes. Yeah. And, and, and they’re obviously completely affected by whatever it is that’s infected them now. They’re not really themselves. But he boards up all the doors and windows.

Zach hides Alice in a closet just to get her out of the way so we don’t have to worry about her for a while. And then the doctor arrives and gets in the house, and there’s smoke coming up from the floorboards. No idea why. 

Todd: Yeah. What is all this about? How does the house suddenly become the poltergeist house?

Craig: I don’t… This is so weird. All of a sudden it becomes poltergeist or Fall of the House of Usher or Amityville or something where it’s like the entire house is affected. It doesn’t make any sense. 

Todd: You’re right. It doesn’t make any sense. You were right earlier when you said, you know, it gets very Italian.

This is, this is part and parcel of the Italian horror movies. 

Craig: Oh, yeah, 100%. 

Todd: Like this big, bombastic, crazy shit. Like this would happen, but it wouldn’t make sense in the continuity of what we’ve seen, seen so far . 

Craig: Yeah. Well, and, and so the… Right, that… There’s big confrontations, like lots of fights. Pa kills the doc, then he goes after Zach.

But Willis, who has shown up, Tennessee Valley Association Willis, shows up and pitchforks Pa. And the walls are shaking and peeling, and windows are breaking. They’re trying to get out. I think they get Alice. Willis gets Alice out, I think. But Cyrus attacks Zach on the way out, but Zach pushes him over a banister and- 

Todd: Yeah

Craig: Willis gets Alice out. But Zach says he has to go back in ’cause he has to get Ma. And Willis runs outside with Alice, and a tree falls on the car. Like you said, like it’s the goddamn Poltergeist house. Like the house itself- … is trying to kill them. It doesn’t make any sense. 

Todd: Trees are uprooting themselves.

None of this ma- We were just talking about contaminated water for an hour- I know … and 15 minutes. Why is suddenly everything getting weirdly supernatural? 

Craig: When Zach finds Ma in the attic, she’s just a gooey blob mostly. She’s just like a skull melting into a gooey blob- … which looks 100% like another Fulci zombie movie, like that melty goo.

Very Fulci to me. Um, you’re more of a… But- 

Todd: Yeah … 

Craig: so and then Zach tries to get out again, but Cyrus grabs him again, but then a beam falls on him. But then Pa’s back, and he tries to block the way out, but Zach pushes him into a beam, and he falls under a beam, too. And then Zach’s just like standing there kinda catatonic, looking through the door as the f- house is falling in.

And Willis, who really has not been a character at all- 

Todd: Yeah … 

Craig: grabs Zach a- and, and carries him down to the truck. And the entire house collapses in on itself into the ground Poltergeist style- … as Zach sits in the car peering out the passenger side window- Oh … stunned. Then we cut back- Yeah … to present day, I suppose, and we see a newscast.

We find out that the guy from the cold open that we saw was Willis, and the newscast explains that he was testing the water in that area and he found some anomaly, and it led to the deaths of these four people or whatever. But don’t worry, he’s fine. Willis is fine. He’s perfectly recuperated, and there’s no more risk of any danger.

Then it pans out from the TV to show that the person watching TV is in a hospital completely wrapped in gauze head to toe, mummy style. And the nurse says, “You hear that, Mr. Willis? Everything’s gonna be just fine.” And it just, like, closes up on his eyes. Then we do a panorama of farmland, and the horizon starts glowing, and we close up on the ground, and it’s shaking and glowing, and the oozy cosmic goo comes up out of the ground- Yeah

suggesting that this will continue. 

Todd: Continue. 

Craig: Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, I really remember liking this movie when I was a kid, and I ha- I think a lot of it probably has to do with two factors. Well, maybe a c- maybe a few. First and foremost, Wil Wheaton, big fan. Again, Stand By Me, one of my favorite movies.

Liked his other movies- Sure … as well. I was never really a Star Trek guy, but, uh, all of the movies he was in in the ’80s and ’90s, big fan. Two, the fact… I don’t think that I knew at the time that he was working with his little sister in real life, but the big brother being protective of the little sister thing was always something that was appealing to me too, ’cause I had a little sister that I felt that way about.

So- Hmm … that part of it was appealing to me. The gross gore effects I still find fun to watch. Yeah. Uh, and I’m sure I did then, too. I watched so many of these types of movies with these corny interstitial scenes that I think that I was more accustomed to it at the time, that I had more patience for it, and potentially I was less mature and-

and, and cynical as I am today, and probably was able to enjoy that part of it a little bit more when I was young. So I, I, I understand why I liked it as a kid. You know, looking at it from, uh, today’s perspective as an old person, it’s not great, but I still think that it’s worth watching for the value of its component parts.

There are parts of it that are stupid and kind of boring to get through, but I think the good parts are worth it, and it is only an hour and a half long. 

Todd: These days, these days that’s a short movie. I have to say, like, I thought it was a bit milk toast. There’s nothing wrong with the story. It’s the slow transformation of a family out in the middle of nowhere into monsters and how they ha- how, how the bro- the boy and the, his sister handle it.

But that’s really all it is. Like, any bit of complication that could’ve been added to the script was literally introduced into the script, but then abandoned before it could become a complicating factor. 

Craig: Sure. I 

Todd: mean, ima- imagine if this, this woman had loyalties to this guy still, and this guy was into her.

Like, there are just so many interesting things you could have done with some of the things that were just dropped, that it’s almost unbelievable. I, I would almost think that somebody came alo- along and just chopped up a script that was better fleshed out than this. Maybe. You know? Who knows. So then watching the movie and having to kind of plow through these scenes that led to nowhere, that didn’t end up becoming consequential, things that were set up that were not paid off, and it’s really just, “Oh, now Dad’s acting weird.

Now the chickens are acting weird. Now the cow’s got these udder issues. Now the vegetables are gross. Now, like, Mom has boils on her face and is lashing out.” Like, okay. I mean, I’ve seen this before. It usually, this is where the story starts. And at this point, we’re almost three-quarters of the way through the movie, and I’ve just seen this slow, steady progression in the direction that I expected it to go.

The water’s contaminated. Everyone’s gonna turn into some monster. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: For that reason, because there weren’t, there wasn’t really much else to really capture my interest, I just felt like, yeah, I mean There’s nothing wrong with it. I just, I could probably recommend other films along these same lines that had a little more intrigue and, and went- felt a little more…

This movie feels very real. You know, it feels almost too normal, really. Yeah. There, there wouldn’t be a lot of intrigue if this shit happened in real life. There’d just be your family around you slowly turning, and it would… That, that’s it, so- 

Craig: Right … 

Todd: you know, there’s nothing wrong with the movie. Just didn’t capt- captivate me like I was hoping.

Craig: Yeah. I, I, I think that the story could be better told for sure. I, I think that there… Even the progression of what the cosmic goo is doing to people I think could have been more interesting if it had been less overt initially. People had started to show signs, you know, changes in temperament. You know, if the mom had, before the boils appeared on her face, if she had started to become more short-tempered or- Mm.

I don’t know. I mean, they, they tr- they try to do a little bit of, of that. I, I can only imagine th- the story is better told in the Ni- the 2019 Nicolas Cage adaptation, which I really am interested in looking at again, ’cause I just watched it on a whim at one point and don’t really remember much about it.

The story was also adapted into a Boris Karloff film at one point under a different title. But I don’t remember what that title was, but you can find that too. Yeah. I mean, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s very ’80s. I imagine if it’s- The score is fun. Yeah, it’s, it’s interesting. I love that. They actually… There are two different scores.

They did one for the American release and the one for the, uh, one for the Italian release, and I don’t know if both- … are still available or, or what. But again, it is only an hour and a half long, and it’s y- it’s streaming free on YouTube as of this recording, so, you know, if you got nothing better to do.

But again, if, if, if you choose to opt out, you’re not really missing much. It’s fine. Whatever. 

Todd: All right. Well, thank you guys so much for listening. I hope you enjoy this. If you’ve seen this movie, drop us a line. ChainsawHorror.com is our website. We have links there. We have a link where you can leave a voice message for us, or you can just Google Two Guys and a Chainsaw Podcast and find our Facebook and, uh, Instagram pages.

Leave us messages there as well. Let us know what you thought of this. Recommend us to a friend. Check out our Patreon at Patreon.com/ChainsawPodcast. We’d love to have you on board. Until next time, I’m Todd. 

Craig: And I’m Craig. 

Todd: With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.