Hatching (2022)

Episode 486, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd. 

Craig: And I’m Craig. 

Todd: This week’s episode was, uh, Craig’s choice. You said to me, “What are you feeling like? You feeling like foreign film? You feeling grindhouse?” And I could have done both, and I don’t know, I just flipped a coin and thought, “Yeah, let’s, let’s do foreign this time around.”

Since we’ve been doing some foreign films lately, I’m kind of in the mood. And this is a, uh, tw- 2022, I love how it’s listed on Wikipedia, satirical, absurdist, psychological body horror film Yeah … which kind of works, I suppose, called Hatching. And it is the, uh, first effort from writer-director Hanna Bergholm, and got major, major awards when it came out.

It… This premiered at Sundance in 2022, got sold to over 75 countries. It has, uh, like a th- 93% rating on Rotten Tomatoes. Rotten Tomatoes called it one of the 10 best horror movies of 2022. It won the Grand Prize and Jury Youth Award at the Gendarme Film Festival in France. Several other awards. I think it was listed the best Finnish film of 2022, so it- it’s- it’s definitely very well critically received.

I had not heard of it before, and I’m really curious what made you decide to pick this one this week. 

Craig: I had read about it when it came out and thought that it sounded like an interesting premise, unique, so I was interested. I, I don’t know… I’m sure at some point in time I knew that it was Finnish, but by the time that it finally came around to streaming, I went to put it on, you know, I was just browsing through things, and realized that it was in Finnish and there was no dub.

And so that just kind of kept me away from it for a while. 

Todd: Hmm. 

Craig: Because more often than not, if I’m just, you know, scrolling through Tubi or wherever trying to find something to watch, I’m not looking for something to seriously sit down and pay a lot of attention to. It’s, it’s more just to kind of have something on in the background that I can chat with other people during it or, or, you know, look at my phone or whatever.

And obviously, if it’s, you know, strictly subtitles, I can’t do that. I was also surprised to see that this came out in 2022. Time goes by so fast when you’re old. Like- 

Todd: Yeah, it 

Craig: does … I, I, I would have guessed a couple of years ago. But the reason that I picked it, and I am not sure, it, it must have been on Bloody Disgusting, ’cause that’s one of the only horror sites that I look at anymore.

But there was some article, like- five other doppelganger movies you should see before, I don’t know, some doppelganger movie that recently came out. 

Todd: Okay. 

Craig: And I was, I was looking through it, and this movie was on the list, and I didn’t know that this was a doppelganger movie. I thought it was about a girl who hatches some big monstrous bird, and that’s the whole premise.

Todd: Mm. 

Craig: So that, that piqued my curiosity, and it also just gave me an excuse to finally getting around to it. I know you enjoy foreign films, so I thought we’d give it a shot. 

Todd: Yeah. Here we go. Well, it is also about a girl hatching a giant bird. At least for a while. Yeah, I, I really enjoyed this. I have to say it was, uh, beautifully shot.

The settings, the lighting, everything was quite perfect and gorgeous, but it was slow. But I don’t think it was slow in a bad way. I was really engaged by the pacing, the look of it, what was happening to these families. It’s just one of those movies that’s definitely taking its time helping you to get to know the characters and all their subtleties as they go through life.

It feels a little artsy in some respects, but not in an aloof way. Kind of just a down-to-earth… The, the sort of movie that honestly you don’t see from a lot of American directors. You, you do tend to see- 

Craig: Yeah … 

Todd: from European-style films. Wouldn’t you say? 

Craig: Yeah. And I don’t r- really know how to describe it, but I didn’t find it to be slow at all.

I, I thought that the story was very well-paced and that there was a lot going on and that the tension was taut most of the time. Mm. There was never a moment when I felt bored. Even when just small things were happening, in my mind I’m thinking, “I see what this is setting up for, and I’m upset by it.” Like, very small things.

For example, very early on in the movie, our young protagonist finds that a new next-door neighbor family has moved in who also has a young daughter approximately her age, and the young daughter has a little French bulldog that she’s playing with out in the backyard. And I thought- I see where this is going, and I don’t like it.

Oh my God. 

Todd: That soon, huh? 

Craig: Yeah, yeah. Well, and because I knew… I, I, I tried not to read too much about it. The whole doppelganger thing intrigued me, but I didn’t wanna know too much about it going in. So I didn’t know every element of what was going to happen, but I did know that it was a creature feature with practical effects.

Todd: Ah, and I didn’t. I knew nothing about it when I went into it. Literally nothing. Well- Except the name. 

Craig: So, so you didn’t even know that she was, like, raising this big egg? Like, you didn’t even- No … see the- 

Todd: Well, I saw a girl with an egg, but I didn’t know if it was metaphorical or what the deal was, so. 

Craig: I see. I see.

Okay. Yeah. Well, I, I at least knew that, that it was a creature feature, and so I saw where things were going. And I think it builds the tension by giving us a very limited pool of victims, and they’re all pretty… You don’t have the lamb to the slo- you know, just, like, the, the scapegoats, the easy kill-offs.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: All of the potential victims, their deaths are gonna carry some pretty major gravity. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: So I thought that was good. The things that you were saying about it, like, I… It, it being shot well. From the very beginning, I also had read body horror in the description, but the… I, I feel like the very opening shot is a cut back and forth between this young girl I would say she’s what?

Like 13 probably. 

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: And she’s doing gymnastics in her living room, and it l- looks like a very opulent, nice house. In fact, it may even have been a special little living space for her ’cause it was all in, like, pink and stuff. I don’t know. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And it cuts back and forth from that to an overhead shot of this, like, idyllic, wealthy, suburban neighborhood with, you know, lots of trees and big yards and, and that kind of stuff.

And immediately I was taken … I was like, “Oh, this is going to be body horror,” because I was horrified by the angles that they were shooting her body. 

Todd: Oh. 

Craig: L- she, she looked so frail- 

Todd: Mm … 

Craig: and thin and unhealthy and bird-like. Like, I, I- That’s true … picked that out right away. The, the way that she was bending and her bones protruded and her shoulder blades were protruding- Oh

it looked very bird-like right from the very beginning. And I, I just think it’s, you know, it’s a well-done movie. It’s … It got an interesting style. You kind of come to find that that perspective that we were seeing her doing the gymnastics from is the mother filming with her cellphone. And right away I knew that I hated this woman because- 

Todd: Yeah

Craig: she’s one of those mom bloggers, which I think is just one of the most disgusting, self-centered, vacuous, child abusive things that parents can do. And it’s, it’s very clear from the beginning that she is cultivating this picture-perfect life. And any time anybody’s doing that, it’s not true. There is always something going on behind the scenes, and I think the movie has a lot to say about that.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: But yeah, right from the, right from the get-go I was … It’s like, “Okay, this is interesting. I’m meeting interesting characters. It’s an interesting setup.” I was ready to go. 

Todd: I was laughing out loud when the mother… Of course, it’s so stereotypical, mo- this mother mommy blogger place. These people are in a wealthy neighborhood.

Everything is picture perfect in their house and their yard, outside. The picture is picture perfect. Like, you know, every frame of this movie is really beautiful. And this woman is skirting around, like you said, filming her family. She’s even sitting down with her daughter. Her daughter’s name is Tina, I believe, right?

She sits down with Tina, and they’re going through a new intro video that she’s created that is this, like, sickeningly sweet- highly produced video of the family. Dad gardening out back, and oh, hi, with a little smile, and them skipping through the yard in slow motion and all this stuff. It looks like the intro to some reality TV show or something.

Craig: Right. 

Todd: And she says to… I can’t remember if she says it to the camera or if it’s what’s written down, is that these are just days in the life of an average, normal Finnish family. 

Craig: Right. 

Todd: And I’m like, oh, my God, this is how out of touch these people can often be, right? They’re- Mm-hmm. You know, I, we’re all a little out of touch.

I think we all tend to imagine that we are average, and the way everybody else lives is, you know, weighed off of that. You know, that’s part of the problem why we have a hard time understanding each other sometimes. But- 

Craig: Probably. 

Todd: Yeah, so you know immediately that you’re gonna hate this woman, and she’s gonna be annoying through the whole thing, and also that you, you really start to very early on, I think, hate what she’s starting to put her daughter through.

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: Her daughter comes home from rehearsals or lessons or something like that. I mean, I know I’m jumping a little ahead in the plot, but I wanted to get to this early, and sees her mom kissing the repairman- 

Craig: Mm-hmm … 

Todd: who’s, like, fixing a light fixture in their house. This was a light fixture that got knocked down when a bird got loose, and we’ll talk about that in a second.

And they turn around. He’s a little embarrassed. Mom acts like it’s nothing. He walks out the door, and Mom later goes into the room with the girl and sits down and says, “So I guess you saw that.” And the girl’s like, “Yeah.” And she says, “You know what? Sometimes adults have special friends.” The girl’s like, “Well, what about Daddy?”

And Mommy says, “Well, you know how Daddy is, but this will be our little girl secret, right?” This actress is so good. You can see the conflicted emotions on her face. 

Craig: The little girl? 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: Uh, and by the way, her name is Siri Solle- Sololina, I believe, and this is her acting debut. 

Craig: And she was picked out of a search of, like, well over 1,000 girls.

It was a huge search, yeah, for her casting. 

Todd: Well, they found her because the look on her face throughout a lot of this movie, but especially here, it just says it all. On, on the one hand, she’s a little horrified. She’s not sure what to make of it, but you also know that she’s too young to fully understand it, and she realizes she doesn’t fully understand it, and she loves her mom, and she kind of wants to connect with her, so she kind of smiles and that becomes this thing.

And I was like, “that woman.” I’m like- Yeah, it’s awful. She’s terrible. She’s awful. And, and she immediately goes off on a work trip, which we all know what she’s doing. In fact, her daughter knows what she’s doing, and- H- you know, when the mom goes and talks to the dad a- as she comes home from this work trip, h- the dad’s like, “How was your work trip?”

“Oh, it was fine.” And she looks at her daughter and she winks. This conspiratory little wink to her. Tina just kinda half smiles, and then later in the movie she comes up to her and has a heart-to-heart with her like she is one of her friends at school and says, “You know, I think I’m in love.” And her daughter gets this bright, beaming smile on her face and she says, “Yeah, this guy…”

What is his name? Torvald or something like that. 

Craig: I don’t know. “

Todd: This is the first time I think I’ve ever loved anyone in my whole life.” And of course immediately her face falls, and it’s falling for a couple reasons, right? One is she’s like, “Oh, this isn’t my dad that you’re talking about.” And number two is, “What do you mean you f- you love someone for the first time in your life?

What? What about your family?” 

Craig: Right. 

Todd: I- it’s just so crazy. This woman, she’s so out of touch with her kids. She’s so out of touch with her role as a mother. She’s so self-centered, and she’s trying to bring her daughter in on this like it’s nothing. Oh, I hated her. 

Craig: Yeah. Th- that’s a… Like, that’s a, that’s a thread throughout the…

Like, you just covered one of the movie’s entire threads almost. 

Todd: Yeah, and there’s a lot of threads in this movie. 

Craig: Yeah. All, you know, these little reveals about the mom and how awful she is come along the way, and y- you… It, it is terrible and I felt terrible about it too, and I thought, I know that there are parents like that.

I know that there are parents that manipulate their children, that make them co-conspirators in their- 

Todd: Dalliances … 

Craig: schemes and things. Schemes. Yeah. Yeah, and s- so it is. It’s, it’s awful, and she’s awful for a variety of other reasons, too. It… I also found it awful, you know, ’cause she’s cultivating this blog or whatever and talking about how great her life is, and she’s got this husband who, uh, you know, is average looking but seems like a very nice guy.

Somebody’s providing for that family ’cause they’ve got this huge, enormous house. But, and they, they also have a son who she doesn’t pay any attention to at all. Like, she barely acknowledges his existence, and he kind of acts out because of it. But the other thing that bothered me about that whole relationship thing was eventually the mom, the dad, and Trin- Tinja are sitting at the breakfast table and the mom’s like, “Okay, finish up and then you and I’ll go to such and such’s house,” the, the boyfriend’s house.

And the mom gets up with a big smile on her face and walks away, and the dad looks at the mom and says I’ve always known wh- who your mother is. I’ve always known she’s somebody who’s gonna always go for what she wants. And then something like, “It’s easy to love someone like that.” 

Todd: Mm. 

Craig: So he knows. Yeah. And, and he even says, he says, “So and so is a really good man, person.”

Todd: He says that to the daughter. Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. Yeah, so he knows. So he’s just like a fucking cuck at home while his wife is out banging the handyman, which becomes even more complex because it turns out that the handyman is a really good dude, but we’ve gotten way ahead of ourselves. Yeah. Really, really the first indication that the mom is stone cold is as she’s finishing up this, you know, shoot for her blog in the very beginning, they hear a crash on the window, and Tinja goes to check it out, and there’s a bloody feather there, and a moment later, the window breaks open and a, a crow flies in and, and causes a big disturbance and breaks a bunch of things in the house.

You know, all of the fine glass and things that are around the living room. And eventually Tinja catches it in a blanket and picks it up very tenderly and asks her mom if she should go take it outside. And the mom says, “No, give it to me.” And so she hands it over to her mom very tenderly, and her mom grabs it by the neck and breaks its neck and hands it back and says, “Take it outside.”

Todd: Ugh. 

Craig: And you don’t… You know, it, it’s one thing to put an animal out of their misery, but this is made very clear that she’s doing this because she’s angry. You know, this bird just destroyed her f- glass facade in this room- 

Todd: Yeah … 

Craig: and it’s gonna pay for it. And in the, like you said, in the course of that, even the chandelier falls down, which I thought was a little dramatic, but whatever.

So anyway, Tinja takes it out and puts it in the compost. But sometime, I think it’s later that night, she’s hears screaming. And the screaming of crows, I imagine is something that everybody is familiar with, but if you’ve never heard it, it’s really eerie and strange- Yeah … and, and not at all unlike the screaming of a person.

Mm-hmm. And, and this plays on that. She goes out into the woods in the middle of the night- And finds it, but it’s still injured. So how it got there, I don’t know. 

Todd: Yeah. It 

Craig: did. But she makes the merciful decision to put it out of its misery. However, she has to strike it over the head with a rock about 10 times- Yeah

until its head is obliterated before it stops screaming. And as soon as she does that, from behind her a thick fog rolls in, which looked great. 

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: And she looks over and she finds this egg, which at this point is about the size of a chicken egg, and she takes it back into her house and hides it under her pillow, and basically is incubating it, even though not really.

I don’t think a teddy bear’s really gonna incubate an egg, but- 

Todd: No … 

Craig: whatever. 

Todd: Well, I mean, it is a bit of, like it said, surreal, absurdist. We got some magical realism here. 

Craig: For 

Todd: sure. Do you think that egg came from the bird, or that the bird led the girl to the egg? Or- 

Craig: I don’t have any idea. 

Todd: There’s probably no answer for this, right?

It’s just kind of a magical thing. 

Craig: It is just kind of a magical thing, and it’s ultimately, you know, it’s all s- in service of metaphor. 

Todd: Yes. 

Craig: This gives her something to care for. This is all about, I think, maternity and, you know, mother-daughter relationships and expectations. Right. Like you said, this mother has i- i- ridiculous expectations.

You don’t find out immediately, but you find out eventually that the mother used to be a competitive ice skater, but she injured herself and that injured her career. So now she’s vicariously living through her daughter and forcing her to train to a ridiculous extent in gymnastics in order to compete in gymnastics.

And Tenia seems, you know, like she wants to do it and she wants to please her mother, but she also wants to hang out with friends and stuff, and she’s just not permitted to. But it’s, it’s, it’s never you’re forbidden from it. It’s you want the competition as much as I do, right? So, like- 

Todd: Yeah … 

Craig: a- again, it’s manipulation.

It’s not forbidding her from doing the things that she wants. It’s just guilting her into doing the things that the mom wants instead. 

Todd: Yeah, I see that. And, uh, and I mean, it’s also about, and you kind of mentioned it too, it’s about how we transfer things into our kids. How do, how does what we are like as an adult then rub off on the people that we’re caring for?

And, and, and, you know, the… I think it’s, it’s very literally about, in many ways about just vicariously living through your kids. And that is a thing that I think as a parent I wrestle with. I wanna strike this balance between my expectations and who my kid really is. It’s almost natural, surprisingly natural, for me to just expect that my son is gonna be like me, and that he’s going to be into the things that I was into.

If not just naturally because he’s my son and it’s w- you know, in his DNA or whatnot, but just that he’s exposed to me. 

Craig: Right. 

Todd: And you know, we bake together, so I expect he’s gonna be into baking. I’ve bought him a magic set and we’ve done magic tricks together, so I expect that just like me at his age he’ll be into magic.

We give him the swimming lessons, and swimming is so big to me, so I just imagine that’s gonna be just as big to him. But when you have to step outside and look at yourself, you go, “Okay, this is stupid,” right? Like, my kid is gonna be who he is. And so I give him these opportunities and I encourage him in his things, but I also give him space to find his own interests as well, and encourage those just as strongly.

Uh, it’s sometimes it’s disappointing. I can’t even explain why it’s disappointing. Oh, I’ll tell you, it’s disappointing that I can’t really sit down and watch a movie that’s remotely scary with him. 

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: You know, horror movies and scary movies have been a part of my life since I was younger than him.

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: It’s something I’ve been drawn to, and he com- he feel, he seems like completely the opposite. He’s, he’s kind of a little scaredy-cat right now, you know? And that’s disappointing ’cause it’s a thing that I can’t do with him that I love so much, that I wanna give him an appreciation for, and he might not ever have an appreciation for it.

So- 

Craig: Right … 

Todd: I don’t force it, I don’t push it. This mom is not like that. And then how we go too far in this can kinda give our kids complexes and traumas. 

Craig: Right. 

Todd: And what happens with this girl is that this egg grows to an enormous size. Uh, was something I wasn’t expecting. You, you know, usually eggs don’t grow.

Craig: Right. 

Todd: It grows to an enormous size that she manages to keep hidden in her bedroom somehow. And once it hatches, what comes out of it- 

Craig: Real quick, though, before it, before it hatches, she makes a physical and presumably psychic connection with it 

Todd: Oh, with her hand on it, yeah. 

Craig: Yes, because her mom forces her to do her aerial routine so many times that her hands are covered in blisters and blood, and she goes home and she cries and she puts her hand, her bloody hand on the egg.

Todd: Oh. 

Craig: And the egg glows from the inside, and you can see the silhouette of a beak. 

Todd: You know what? 

Craig: And from that point on, she kind of has this connection with it and, and right before it hatches, I don’t remember, I think it’s when the mom tells her that sh- this is the first time she’s ever loved somebody, this new guy.

Todd: Yes. 

Craig: And- 

Todd: She cries … 

Craig: Tina goes in the room a- and it, the egg is, God, the size of a beanbag chair, a big one at this point, and she lays herself over it and hugs it and cries, and her tears seep into the shell, and that’s when it hatches. 

Todd: I didn’t draw that connection that her hand… I remember the part of her hand and the egg glowing.

I didn’t draw that connection that that was her bloody hand from all of the, the work. And of course I, it was very obvious when the tear came down on the egg that something magical was happening there as well. It’s so literal, right? It’s like the old saying, like we put our blood, sweat and tears into something.

Craig: Uh-huh. 

Todd: Like our, into our- Right … kids, and she literally puts her blood, sweat and tears into this egg just like a mother would do for their child. And, uh, what hatches essentially i- is, is now her child, right? I mean- Right … it’s, it’s a big giant metaphor. She’s the bird. This is the egg she’s been hatching, and now it, it, it looks great.

It’s gross, just like baby birds are gross, but imagine- 

Craig: Yes … 

Todd: a gross little baby bird the size of a gorilla. And that’s the thing that comes out of this egg that she has to secret away. And eventually successfully into her closet and raise 

Craig: Yeah, and it’s the size at this point of, like, a medium to large-sized dog.

Like, it’s, it’s- 

Todd: Oh, yeah … 

Craig: big and it’s, and it’s gross and scary-looking and it’s practical. The creature effects were done by Gustaf Hagen. Do you recognize that name? 

Todd: No. 

Craig: I guess he did the Star Wars sequel trilogy. He designed, I think, BB-8. 

Todd: Oh, wow. No kidding. 

Craig: And Babu Frik. He also worked on Prometheus and Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom.

Yeah, so apparently he’s a pretty big dude. And they were insistent on keeping this thing practical. And it goes through various stages and it does look like a baby bird and baby birds are disgusting, but it- it’s not strictly bird-like from the beginning. 

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: I, I don’t know. There’s something just…

There’s something a little bit off about… Well, first of all, it has human teeth so that’s- Oh, 

Todd: yeah … 

Craig: pretty off. 

Todd: That part’s off. 

Craig: It has a beak, but in the beak it also has human teeth, so there’s already something weird. And of course it kind of freaks out in the beginning. Oh, what else was I gonna say about it?

Oh, the design of it, though, you can see right from the very beginning is super reminiscent of that opening shot of the girl when she was bent, hunched over and you could see every bone in her back and her shoulder blades. It looks so much like that. And I read that the designers wanted the bird i- initially to be everything that Tinya could not be.

She had to be perfect and her, you know, graceful, and her lines had to be perfect and her posture had to be perfect. And so they wanted this thing hunched and kind of mangled as a super, super stark contrast, which is smart and makes perfect sense moving forward. But it does look really good. As far as I’ve read, it’s almost exclusively puppets and animatronics.

Man. It took, like, five or six guys to control the puppet at one time. It goes away f- she’s scared of it at first. It breaks out the window, but the same night it comes back and comes inside and, like, kind of, it doesn’t speak, but it kind of shows her that it’s injured. A shard of glass from the window has gone through its arm, and so she pulls that out, and then they kind of bond.

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: You know, I guess, and, and she strokes its head and, but it stinks, so she gives it a bath. And I read that they had to shoot that bath scene last because they knew that it was probable that water was gonna get in and mess up the animatronics, and it did. Oh. And it killed it, so that’s why they had to film that last.

It was a really cute scene, and I feel like we’ve seen, we’ve seen movies like this before where a child has encountered some sort of creature that they don’t understand, but it’s theirs and they wanna protect it and they feel some connection. I mean, E.T. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Uh, th- this is E- this is E.T. for a minute. 

Todd: It is E.T.

in a way, yeah. 

Craig: Yeah, so, a- and it, and it’s kinda sweet, and she wants to care for this thing and nurture it, and it wants to be nurtured, and they caress one another and they sleep together and- 

Todd: They do … 

Craig: but that idyllic part of it doesn’t last long at all. 

Todd: No. There’s some really gross things in here that definitely add to the el- horror element.

The bird comes in like, like animals do with kind of an offering for her, and that ends up being, like, a decapitated dog. It w- it turns out to be the neighbor’s dog. 

Craig: That dog, I told you. 

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. That’s how you said you knew there was a s- 

Craig: Well, and that’s an important scene, too, because Tina’s l- sleeping in bed, and the bird is, too, but then the bird wakes up and we see from its point of view, but we also see that Tina, though she’s still sleeping in her bed, appears to be seeing from that point of view as well.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Like, she’s s- she’s seeing what happens, and it’s only at the point of the kill that she kind of snaps awake to find the bird hovering over her- And it, like, spits some sh- stuff out of its beak all over her face, like this gooey crap. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And then, like, tilts its beak, like indicating her look over there, and she turns her head, and there’s that decapitated bleeding dog all over her bed.

Mm-hmm. And so that makes her barf, and then the bird gets down and eats the barf. 

Todd: Yeah. It’s so gross. It’s so disgusting. And the bird she names Allie, I think, at some point, right? After a song that her mom is singing? 

Craig: Yeah, the mom sings them a lullaby. 

Todd: There’s all this gross stuff, but then like you said, we’re getting these odd point of view shots, and gosh, we’ve seen this before, too, where somebody forms a psychic connection with an animal, and then suddenly we’re seeing…

They, they find that they’re seeing through their eyes every now and then, like in- 

Craig: Monkey Shines. 

Todd: Yeah, Monkey Shines. That’s the one. So yeah, so this is happening, too, and she’s also getting visions of her mother sleeping and these clawed hands going over her mother’s face, but they seem more human than this bird is.

There are just so many interesting things happening here. But it’s all, it’s all unfolding very deliberately. 

Craig: Yeah. The bird evolves relatively quickly, but it seems… The bird seems to want to target things that have in some way slighted or that it perceives to have slighted Tina. 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: That dog bit Tina.

Now, that was before the bird was even around, but I guess because Tina knows, it knows. That dog bit her, so it gets the boot. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: The mom is a bitch and is causing Tina suffering through this pressure to be thin and to be perfect and all of that. The next threat, I think, well, and again, it’s still kind of evolving, like, uh, at, at one point it almost goes after the brother ’cause the brother rats her out about the dog.

Todd: The brother who’s wearing a mask that is not really explained but looks a lot like an egg. That’s true. I hadn’t thought about that. And he, yeah, he rats her out because he sees her burying the corpse in the back. So he goes out, and he just digs it up and brings it in, presents it to the parents, and says, “Tina killed this dog.”

And they’re like, “Come on, Tina didn’t kill the dog. Look at this thing. It was obviously gutted by an animal. Go away.” Later, the brother starts to investigate and again, he sneaks into her room and does open up eventually the door to her closet where this thing is, and sees this thing. He’s wearing his m- protective egg mask, but then when he goes to see it, the egg is, like, in two, right?

Like, like he’s torn his mask in two? 

Craig: It’s under the bed. 

Todd: Oh, it was under the bed. It was under the bed. 

Craig: And, and he, he looks under the bed, and he’s just staring. He can’t see anything in the darkness, but then that clawed hand comes out and slashes at his face. Slashes the 

Todd: mask. Ah, that’s right. Mm-hmm. And but he’s still kind of opening it up.

It’s like a cracked egg. 

Craig: Yeah, that’s true. 

Todd: You know, he’s kind of peering out from, from behind it, you know, at them. They’re these little- 

Craig: That’s relatively obvious, and I can’t believe I didn’t notice. But yes, but the, in the meantime, Tina’s in the living room with her parents, and she begins seizing. Like, she knows what’s happening, and her body begins seizing.

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: And, and she’s, you know, pa- I- I assume terrified but out of control as this creature kind of approaches her brother, but her mother slaps her, which brings her out of her seizure and I guess makes Allie go away. 

Todd: Yeah, it’s- 

Craig: Because when the brother opens his eyes, it’s gone. 

Todd: This is sort of the first indication, I believe, that we have that some injury or something that happens to Tina can also affect Allie in that moment.

So it’s like a two-way thing. Not only is she kind of seeing through the bird’s eyes and the bird’s doing things for her, but, like, if she gets hit or kicked or something like that, it seems to affect the bird. 

Craig: Yeah, and it becomes… You know, I think it becomes pretty evident, I don’t think they’re trying to hide it from us at this point, that it is becoming a doppelganger thing.

They do, they are psychically connected- Mm-hmm … in some way, and as the bird evolves, one of the first things is it starts to lose feathers and starts to grow long blonde hair. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Like you said, eventually its hand, though it still kind of has talons for nails, looks more like human hands. Eventually, it asks…

A- again, it doesn’t speak, but, like, it paws at Tina’s dress, and Tina’s like, “Are you cold?” And so she puts it in clothes. And at that point, it’s human enough looking that as it kind of crawls through the house, the brother sees it and thinks it’s Tina- Yeah … but it’s also somewhat monstrous, so he just kind of runs away.

It’s clear what’s happening. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: But it really doesn’t… I feel like when the major evolution comes is when the, the neighbor’s name, the little girl next door, her name is Renna, right? 

Todd: Rita? No, Rita, I 

Craig: think. Maybe. 

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Craig: Anyway, she’s very nice. She’s gone out of her way to befriend Tina. She’s been nothing but kind and supportive.

Todd: And they’re kind as kind back. Yes. You know? It’s not like this is, like, some rival of hers, right? 

Craig: Oh, no, no, not at all. 

Todd: In her eyes, anyway. 

Craig: Right. Only, only in that, you know, unfortunately they are in the same gymnastics troupe, and there are only a certain number of spots, and Renna, or whatever her name is, is just better.

She just is, you know? For whatever reason. It’s n- nobody’s fault. She’s just better. Mm-hmm. And she doesn’t, she doesn’t gloat about it. Like, she’s not a bully or anything. She just does her thing. She’s supportive of Tina. She helps Tina. She’s a great kid. So I knew she was in trouble. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And it, it comes down to, you know, it’s the, you know, the last i- idea, s- uh, tryout before the competition or whatever, and Renna does much better than Tina.

And Tina and Renna are having a friendly conversation, and the mom approaches and was like, “Oh, Renna, found your dog yet?” She’s such a- 

Todd: Is she? … 

Craig: see you next Tuesday. And then she’s like, “Well, Renna, you did a great job. I guess it just means that Trin- Tina’s gonna have to work that much harder to beat you.”

Like- Mm … she’s trying to build a rift between these girls. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And even if it’s not conscious, even if it’s subconscious She puts it in Tina’s mind that Rena is her competition. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And Tina immediately knows that that puts her at risk. The mom offers Rena a ride home, but Rena insists that she wants to walk, and Tina is concerned about it, as well she should be, because as Rena is walking home, she feels that she’s being followed, and she turns around and looks around and eventually she turns around and there’s a monstrous version of Tina standing before her.

Looks like a girl w- whose the bottom half of their face has been ripped off. 

Todd: Yeah. It’s really gross. Ugh. I mean, and y- we all saw this coming. We really did. 

Craig: Yeah, 

Todd: right. And she goes to bring her flowers at the hospital, Tina does, and when she gets there- 

Craig: Because she’s not killed, which d- which surprised me 

Todd: Yeah, I thought she was gonna die, and she didn’t.

She was just completely butchered. 

Craig: Yes. 

Todd: Her, her face has been sewn up, and her, she’s lost her- 

Craig: She’s lost at least one hand … 

Todd: yeah, which means she’s never gonna be doing gymnastics again, which is- Right … horrible. Tina comes home and she confronts Allie in a way and slaps herself and cries, and Allie starts comforting her while she’s crying.

That was surprising to me, because in this point it’s like Allie’s the mom and Tina’s not. That was a little jarring to me. I was not sure how to take this bit. Except Allie kind of knows what it’s doing, right? It’s like a creature that’s, that has intelligence. But, but in a way the metaphor is sort of that she is her, Tina’s, I guess, doppelganger, right, by this point.

Craig: I think, yeah, I think doppelganger. And I think also that part of the metaphor is that they comfort one another because they are two sides of the same coin. Mm-hmm. Like, they re- they really are one person. I, I think that- Maybe Alli represents everything that the mother was trying to repress in Tinja. You know, I, I read somewhere that this movie is commentary that people s- outside of Finland might not fully recognize because they don’t…

Apparently it’s very Finnish to keep your dirty laundry private. You know, only present, only present your best self. 

Todd: Ah, I see. 

Craig: Um- So 

Todd: this is like the hidden self that’s being repressed. 

Craig: I think that’s what it’s meant to be. Like, you know, the wild screaming part, the passionate, uncontrollable part. 

Todd: Oh, that makes sense because Tinja is remarkably controlled and calm.

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: I was shocked at how there was never a scene where Tinja goes ape on her mom or talks back to her mom, or even shows, like, strong emotions when she’s obviously, like, for example, messing up and at gymnastics and things like that. I mean, she’s clearly frustrated, but there’s none of that high drama stuff that you kind of would expect this to be going towards.

She’s even-keeled. But coming home and crying and being comforted by Alli and, and punishing Alli for doing these things, but also, you know, taking care of Alli and keeping Alli hidden. 

Craig: Well, you’re right, and that’s y- uh, uh I, I, I’m sure there’s something to speak to the metaphor here too, but she’s torn between caring for this thing that she feels a connection to, but also- Keeping it in line

keeping it in line and, and, and not destroying her own life. 

Todd: Which is so much like being a parent. 

Craig: Right? Right, right, right. And, and eventually the mom takes Tina to Taro’s house. 

Todd: Ugh. 

Craig: And he lives in this big, old- Looks like gothic- … looks like gothic … mansion from the 

Todd: outside. 

Craig: It does, but apparently he’s a sexy handyman and he’s gonna fix this place up, and the mom is just in love, and she’s in love with it, and it turns out that he is a widower who also has a baby girl.

And the second I saw that, I was like, “Oh, no.” And, and the mom immediately begins fawning all over it and how perfect and beautiful and special it is. And like you said, this young actress who plays Tina is incredibly talented. It’s really difficult to show believable, subtle changes just by making those changes in your face.

Todd: Mm. 

Craig: There aren’t a lot of people who are really gifted enough to do that, and you can really see just a wave of emotion and understanding and realization go over her, what this means. 

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: There’s a new baby in town. There’s a new little girl in town. I haven’t been performing up to standard. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Any connection that she had to her mom before is gonna be lost to this new baby.

The gross mom’s already, you know, talking to the baby like, “Mommy loves you.” Like, ugh. 

Todd: Oh, yeah. So disgusting. It’s terrible. But you can tell Tina also knows this is gonna be a problem. 

Craig: Right, because Allie shows up. 

Todd: Allie does. Allie shows up, and Tina’s doing her routine, I think, right? She’s doing her gymnastics routine.

Craig: Well, I think she… No, she shows up before that. Well, I mean, I don’t know how important this is, but, uh, the guy, Taro, actually does turn out to be a really good guy, which makes me question why he’s with this horrible woman. I don’t understand that. 

Todd: Yeah, that’s hard to understand. 

Craig: He shows Tina kindness and silliness and fun and, and you don’t have to be perfect, and he’s very kind and accepting of her.

Uh, you know, in another situation, maybe he could have been a good influence in her life. But unfortunately, Allie shows up. Uh, like, Tina, Tina knows it’s a problem because as they’re leaving, the mom’s like, “Come on, we gotta go to the competition,” and she’s like, “Wait, aren’t Taro and the baby coming with us?”

And she’s like, “No, they’re not coming. They’re staying here.” And she’s like, “No, no, they have to come with us.” 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: And as they, as they drive away, she looks back and sees Taro just standing there in the driveway holding the baby, and she knows, she knows that it’s trouble. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And it is because Allie immediately creeps into the baby’s room with- With a- 

Todd: A hatchet

a hatchet. Yeah. Oh my God. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: This was intense. I don’t know. I d- I don’t know if I ever believed for a second that baby was gonna die, but I was… I wasn’t sure. 

Craig: I wasn’t sure either. 

Todd: And Tina is, uh, in the middle of her routine, and she sees the flash of what Allie’s doing, and again, because this is the only way she can control it, she sacrifices hersel- she basically sacrifices her competition by deliberately falling from the high bar.

And she injures her wrist, and that, you know, knocks the hatchet out of the, out of, uh, Allie’s hand and, and then… Oh, God, there… I forgot there was so much more to this movie. Tarot, does Tarot come in at this point? Yeah, he, he ends up coming in, uh, while they’re nursing Allie’s hand at… I’m sorry, while they’re nursing Tina’s hand at the competition.

Tarot hears a noise, and he comes into the baby’s room and sees this kid that looks a hell of a lot like Tina crawling out the window and this hatchet on the floor, picks up the baby. Now, Tarot has been exposed to this creature too, but he is now going to be confusing it with Tina because it’s Tina’s gop- doppelganger.

It looks a lot like her. 

Craig: Yeah. It looks a lot like her, and, and again, the actress does a great job of playing this kind of wild character also. Her, her eyes are cloudy. Her hair is wild and dirty. 

Todd: It’s so Linda Blair, man. It looks so much like Exorcist. 

Craig: Yeah. She sh- she’s got these, um, scars where her skin…

We forgot to mention that after the Retta attack, Allie found the beak in, in the closet, like, she sh- she shed the beak and her skin has come together, but there are still scars there from where it’s come together, and she still has those talons. So they’re played by the same actress. They look a lot alike.

I found it a little… I don’t know, you don’t… I don’t look at movies like this and expect them to be believable. But when Tarot confronts them when they get back from the competition, he’s like, “What the fuck is wrong with you?” to Tina. And the mom’s like, “Hey, hey, what’s going on?” And he says, “I don’t know.

She tried to kill the baby or something.” And the mom’s like, “What are you talking about? She’s been with me- 

Todd: Mm-hmm … 

Craig: the whole time.” 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And he looks confused, but he basically shrugs his shoulders and says, “Well, I don’t know, but she’s got some serious issues, and I don’t wanna deal with them. You all need to leave.”

I guess the mom goes in to get their stuff. It seems like some significant time passes because it’s light outside when the mom goes indoors, and it’s dark outside when she comes back out. And she gets in the car, and she sits there for a second, and then she just starts screaming and smashing her face against- 

Todd: Yeah

Craig: the steering wheel until she stops and composes herself. But her face is all beaten up. There’s blood everywhere. And she turns to Tina and says, “I thought you’d at least let me be happy.” Like, ugh. You nasty woman. 

Todd: In a way it’s, you know, it’s like she’s also, she’s hurting herself in order to try to control her daughter, just like Tinja has to f- hurt herself in order to control her, her pet.

Craig: I guess. 

Todd: I don’t- There’s just so many interesting parallels and metaphor things happening here. Yeah, we skip that scene and it doesn’t matter, but we skip that scene where Tero tries to go into Tinja’s room to talk to her and she ends up seeing- Mm … the doppelganger instead and mistakes it for her, gets his hand slammed in the door, all this stuff.

He is remarkably calm and understanding of this girl. 

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: Even when he sees her, I mean, it looks pretty monstrous when she’s when she’s snarling at him through the crack in the door. Well, and she’s, she’s 

Craig: eating a bowl of the other girl’s vomit. 

Todd: Ugh. Yeah. Oh my God, and she’s The Ring. You know, she’s all Sadako on the floor.

Craig: Yes, yes. Uh-huh. 

Todd: Crouched down at unnatural angles and scurrying towards him. I mean, how could this guy think that was her? Or how could he approach her the next day- I know … going, “There seems to be something troubling you. What could it be?” Like, “No. You seem to be possessed from time to time, and I don’t know what’s going on.”

But it’s a, it’s a big moment when he sees the both of them together. I think, um, what happens is the mother is, go, enters Tinja’s room, thinks that that creature is Tinja, and starts brushing her hair. 

Craig: What was interesting to me was the mom comes home, she’s covered in blood, her face is covered in blood, but the way that I read it was that her plan is back to plan A.

The boyfriend was plan B, plan B didn’t work out, bla- back to plan A as though nothing happened. 

Todd: Yep, they go back home. 

Craig: Uh-huh. She walks in, she kisses her husband, gets blood all over his face, goes and starts making herself up and pr- preparing, you know, for the next blog. But at this point, Alli does look enough like Tinja that she’s fooling the other family members.

Like, the dad sees her in the yard, and I think the brother sees her, or the dad also sees her, like, sitting in the closet, but he doesn’t say anything to her. But you’re right, it is the, uh, the mom is brushing Alli’s hair and She’s brushing it so hard that she pulls a chunk of her scalp off. That was weird to me because I didn’t know if it was meant that Allie is somehow more fragile than a human would be, or if the mother is so horrible that she would’ve ripped Tina’s scalp off if necessary.

Todd: Right. 

Craig: Anyway, when she rips it off, Allie screams and, and turns around and confronts her and, and that’s when Tina comes in and, and I think gets in between them and tackles Allie to the ground, and then the mom is confronted with the both of them. 

Todd: Yeah. And, uh, God, I guess it’s just kinda chaos, right? At this point, Tina kinda says it’s all because of Allie.

Allie runs aw- has run out, so they’re all hunting Allie down. 

Craig: I think Allie is, like, injured somehow. 

Todd: Well, Mom stabs i- Allie in the leg, which also makes Tina fall down. 

Craig: But, but, but Tina says, “I, I just, I just want it to go away.” And then the mom becomes resolved, and, like, grabs Tina and takes her down to the kitchen where they get giant knives.

They meet the father and the son in the hallway, who really have nothing, have no idea what’s going on, even though the son’s like, “I told you so,” ’cause he had told them that he had seen her as a monster earlier and they didn’t believe. And she’s like, “Yes, honey, you were right. I’m sorry.” And she says to the father and the son, whom we haven’t mentioned dress just alike and look just alike, like comically so.

Todd: Oh, yeah. 

Craig: It, it’s so stupid. But you can totally tell that the mother has dressed them to look that way. But anyway, the mom says something to them like, “There’s something in the house. You can’t ask what it was, but we have to get rid of it, and you need to go away.” And so they just do. And so then the mom and Tina go looking for Allie with these big knives, and in the moment I was thinking, “I hope that this isn’t the movie trying to redeem the mother.”

Todd: Hmm. 

Craig: Trying to here in the final act say, “Oh, look, her mother in- her motherly instincts are kicking in, and she’s going to protect her daughter no matter what it takes.” 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: And I don’t think at all that that is what the message is, but I was worried for a second that it might be. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: I think it’s something else entirely.

Todd: Hmm. No, I agree with you. Yeah. 

Craig: Because the, the way, the way that it goes down Is, you know, they, they do event- they find Allie, and she’s pretty much defenseless 

Todd: Well, Allie kind of overpowers her for a little bit, but m- so she’s kind of on top of the mother and she’s got her jaw open and all this stuff.

But Mom, uh, has that knife in her 

Craig: hand. The, the, the… Allie, Allie extends her jaw. 

Todd: Yeah, and, and the mom stabs it in the leg, which makes Tina fall down. Tina’s, like, explaining everything, but Mom standing there getting ready to approach Allie. I think Tina’s almost, is trying to defend Allie, is trying to, in a way, just…

She doesn’t want Mom- She’s 

Craig: saying, “No, no, no.” 

Todd: Yeah, she doesn’t want Mom to kill Allie, kind of like, you know, she killed the bird. 

Craig: Right. Right. 

Todd: But Mom attacks it. But Tina has stepped in front of Mother at this point. And instead of stabbing at Allie, she has stabbed Tina right in the heart- 

Craig: Mm-hmm … 

Todd: and is horrified Doesn’t run off to call an ambulance or anything like that.

Just sits there screaming, “No, no, no,” while her daughter doubles over, slowly falls to the ground. Tina collapses onto Allie and is dying, and her blood falls from her chest, her mouth, I guess, into the creature’s mouth. 

Craig: I think 

Todd: her mouth. Yeah, and it’s going into the creature’s- 

Craig: Yeah, ’cause it, ’cause it mimics that, the feeding.

You know, like the regurgitating feeding. 

Todd: And the other people walk into the room, and basically what happens… And this was such a great ending. Suddenly Allie comes up and is almost fully transformed now to look like Tina, and pushes Tina’s corpse aside, says, “Mother,” and stands up, and then cut to credits.

Looking down on her mom at this point. It, I mean, God, what does this mean? I mean, we know what it means, is that, that now their daughter has been replaced by this new creature. 

Craig: Right, but is it a new creature, or is it just- 

Todd: Her in a new form, right? Her maturing, right? Is this her- 

Craig: Yeah … 

Todd: is this all kind of a metaphorically through puberty kind of situation?

I think it kinda is. 

Craig: I think it kind of is too, and- 

Todd: She’s come into her own and, uh, learned to stand up for herself, and now she’s not gonna be dominated by her mom and stuff anymore. 

Craig: Well, and, and her mother has killed the girl that she wanted Tina to be. 

Todd: Right. Yeah. The one she groomed. 

Craig: Yeah, but maybe that’s not entirely bad.

Like, that’s the other thing. Like, it’s bad that Allie kills things and people- 

Todd: Right … 

Craig: obviously, but I don’t necessarily think that it’s… I don’t think that Allie is the villain of the movie. I think the mom is the villain of the movie. 

Todd: Yes. 

Craig: I think, you know, this entire experience is predicated on the way that she treated Allie.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And again, you know, this is, uh, it’s, it’s a metaphorical fantastical representation of something. I think that it’s probably not at all uncommon that an overbearing parent will kill the person that they wanted their child to be by insisting upon it, and by being- 

Todd: Yeah 

Craig: You know 

Todd: Overbearing. 

Craig: If you’re overbearing and you push, and you push, and you push, and you push, and you push, and you take all the joy out of whatever it is, gymnastics, w- uh, whatever it is, then yeah, you’re not gonna get the result that you want.

In fact, you’re probably gonna get something that pushes against that directly. It’s a strong metaphor, I think, and a creative and interesting one. I don’t think that I’ve seen this kind of parental relationship explored in this kind of way before. I like the idea of the doppelganger and the dual nature.

Yeah, overall, I left feeling very satisfied. You know, I, I, I think there’s, uh, like you said, stuff you could relate the body horror to puberty even especially in a young girl. By the way, in the initial pitch for this movie, it was a young boy, but they immediately decided to make it a girl because they thought that would be more effective, and I think that’s right.

Yeah. I think, um, m- the mother-daughter dynamic is very complex and- 

Todd: Yeah. It’s better. It’s very complex and also helps to mirror the Tina and her m- doppelganger as a mother to this thing’s, yeah, dynamic as well. 

Craig: Right. Right, right, right, right. Even, even the, the vomiting, you know, could be e- especially in this competitive world where she’s encouraged to stay ridiculously lean, you know, obviously there’s eating disorder stuff going on there.

You know, uh, there’s all kinds… There’s, there’s commentary on the way that we, as I think all of us or the vast majority of us are guilty of, of cultivating, you know, what we put out for public consumption and the difference between that and reality, which is often stark So yeah, I think it’s a smart movie.

I, I understand why it got, um, so much attention. I, I wish it had gotten a little bit more attention in the States. It’s… You can find it. I thought it was streaming for free, but apparently I was wrong or apparently wherever it was streaming it, it’s not anymore. But you can rent it for relatively cheap on all of the streaming platforms, and I would recommend it.

I think it’s a really good watch. 

Todd: Yeah. I, I agree. It’s a beautiful movie. It’s really well shot. It’s very compelling. When I said it was slow, I just meant the, the plot moves slowly. It’s a simple plot that’s told over time. It’s not, it’s not… Its pacing is not bad. Its pacing is, I think, very appropriate.

Craig: Right. 

Todd: And it really allows us to sit and think about what’s happening. So many movies that we watch are just slam bang, whatever, like you don’t get to marinate in them- Right … like you get to marinate in this movie. And being so s- 

Craig: It’s quieter, yeah. I, I imagine that may have something to do… I think in America we are loud, and we want- Mm-hmm

action packed, and I, I think that- In 

Todd: Finland. 

Craig: I- i- in Finland and, and specifically independent filmmakers, you know, have more freedom to be a little bit quieter and a little bit more subtle, and I, I actually find that really refreshing. 

Todd: Well, it gives your brain room to think and make connections and really consider what you’re watching and what it means, and, and I really like that about this movie.

There was… There were layers of meaning in here. Like, you just listed off a number of different things you can take away from it, different ways the, the, the metaphors are working in here. It’s something that you just kind of naturally… If you’re watching the movie thoughtfully, you’ll pick up on all this.

You might have to think about it a little bit afterwards, but nobody’s gonna have to really explain this to you too deeply. 

Craig: No. 

Todd: You’re, you’re… You’ve got time and space to really let the movie wash over you and let those themes come at you naturally. It’s not being spoon-fed at you, but it’s definitely out there in your face.

I, I love it. I, I just, I love movies like this. Boy, back in the early days we did one, what was it called? Goodnight Mother. Do you remember that one? 

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: Also I think a Scan- Was it Scandinavian or French? Another European film- 

Craig: I don’t remember … 

Todd: that reminded me a lot of this in that it’s a little slowly, very creepy.

It feels a little magical, a little, a little surreal at times, and it’s got a pretty bleak ending as well as I remember, and it has a lot to do with, um- You know, the relationship between mothers and their, and their kids 

Craig: Yes, and in some ways stylistically, it reminded me a lot of Excision. 

Todd: Mm. 

Craig: You know, Excision isn’t necessarily about a doppelganger, but it certainly explores duality, you know, with that- 

Todd: Yes

Craig: Annalyn McCord, you know, in her fantasy life being this vixen, murderous, you know, bloody vixen as opposed to her day-to-day life and, you know, all of the, y- the mother. Who was that? Stacey Lords? Is 

Todd: that who 

Craig: that was? 

Todd: Was it Tracy Lord? Yeah, Tracy Lords. You’re 

Craig: right. Tra- Tracy Lords. Mm-hmm. Tracy Lords, the mom, and she, you know, she is creating this picture perfect life for all of them and yeah, it reminded me a lot of that, not just in theme, but a little bit in style as well.

Todd: Yeah. It was great. Well yeah, I recommend it as well. And thank you guys for, uh, tuning in. If you’ve seen this movie and you enjoyed it and would recommend it, drop us a line and let us know. Or if you think we’re way off, drop us a line and let us know that. You can just Google Two Guys and a Chainsaw Podcast.

Find our website, chainsawhorror.com. You’ll find our Instagram, Facebook pages, also our Patreon page. Think about subscribing to us for five bucks a month, and you can get unlimited access to all of our unedited phone calls and, uh, also book club, and we’ve got a back catalog of mini-sodes up there, and just more of a direct pipeline to us if you’re back there on the Patreon page.

Until next time, I’m Todd. 

Craig: And I’m Craig. 

Todd: With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.