We head back into comfy early-’80s slasher territory with Joe Giannone’s 1981 cult favorite Madman.

Even though we’d somehow missed it for years, we were genuinely impressed by how competent it is—strong cinematography, effective editing, solid performances, and practical effects that often land, plus a captivating campfire-story opening that sets the tone and lore of “Madman Marz.”

The plot is basically a classic paint-by-numbers chain of counselors wandering into the woods and getting picked off, but the kills are creative and the filmmaking elevates the whole experience.

We also shout out the sound work, the memorable songs, and Galyn Ross as Betsy, then wrap up by playing a listener call.

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Madman (1981)

Episode 481, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, this week I thought we would dive back into the comfy, comfy little zone of 1980s slashers, and, uh, one movie that just kept coming up on my lists here and there but I really had never heard much about and never seen it on- I don’t even remember seeing this on the shelves in the video store.

It’s just the kind of thing that has totally passed me by all these years. But now that we’re doing a podcast for the last few years, it’s, uh, you know, been on my list. Mm-hmm. And that is, uh, 1981’s Madman, directed and written by Joe Giannone. Giannone? I don’t know. How do you pronounce these- Yeah … Italian names?

It was an effort by him and his friend Gary Sales, who met in film school and decided, like so many of these stories start out, especially around this era, that they needed to make a movie that would make some money to kick off their film careers. And what would be better than to do a horror movie, because those seem to be guaranteed money and easy to do.

So, uh, they got together, they’re both credited with writing this, and they put together this film. Which, uh, like I said, I hadn’t really heard of it until I just started compiling movies for us to do eventually. But I was kind of surprised to hear that in the time that has passed, this has, uh, gotten a bit of a cult following.

And one magazine listed it among their top 25 slashers of all time, which surprised me a little bit. But, uh, here we are. I, I was really, uh, happy to see it today for the first time. How about you, Craig? Had you heard of this or seen it before? I don’t think so, 

Craig: and I’m a little bit surprised, I guess. I don’t know.

I mean- Right? Yeah … we, y- you, you said we’ve been doing this for a few years. We’ve been doing this- … I feel like, for well over 10 years. A decade. And- Wow … you know, I, I think that we both consider ourselves kind of aficionados in this genre. But the longer we’ve been doing it, the more we’re digging up these movies that we haven’t seen or heard of before.

It’s crazy. And the reason that I’m kind of surprised that I haven’t seen or heard more about this movie is that it’s really pretty good. Like- Yeah, it’s not half bad. It really is … e- especially, you know, in terms of this is 1981, early ’80s slashers, it’s pretty darn good. Like- Yeah … uh, like, compared to something like Friday the 13th or The Burning or, or- Any other number of these camp slashers.

In terms of cinematography and shooting, I think that this is maybe better than- Oh, yeah … a lot of those. It’s actually quite good. And so I’m surprised that I’ve not seen it before, and I’m glad to have seen it now. I 

Todd: 100% agree with you. As I was watching, from the very first scene really. Well, I mean, the title sequence was kinda cute too.

I always appreciate when they put a little bit of effort into some title sequence. And although it’s just, like, an image, some woods that also kinda look like hands wrapped around a big red space where the words go, I was like, “Oh, this is kinda cute and nice.” And there’s a little song that goes over it that’s really nice.

The first of a few songs that we have in this movie that were written for the movie and are sung. Yeah. And that was a nice touch. And then we go right into a campfire story. And- Mm-hmm … my God, this campfire bit was captivating. I mean, so many of these movies start with a campfire or have a campfire in them, and they’re doing the deal where they’re telling the story about the madman in the woods or the legend of the such and such that you know is gonna come into play.

But this one had an interesting take on it that I hadn’t really seen before, and it really set the tone for the style of the movie, like the style of the editing, the style of the visuals. I was impressed. Mm-hmm. I’m not gonna say I’m impressed with the story, because the story is kind of nonexistent.

Mm-hmm. Which isn’t unusual for these slashers anyway. So I mean, you, you’re getting what you paid for, I suppose. But the acting isn’t half bad. No. And the cinematography is great. And those practical effects range from actually pretty darn cool to, eh, okay, you know, low-budget special effects. We get it. I thought they were pretty good.

There were only a couple moments where I was like, “Eh,” but most of it was pretty impressive. And God, man, this guy’s walking around this campfire, this kid, and he’s singing a little bit of a story to them. And as he’s singing this verse, it’s showing clips of what we’re going to see. Like, it, it- That was wild.

It was so crazy. That was unusual. Right? Yeah. It’s, like, it goes around the s- on the campfire, and each person’s face as they’re listening to the story, and suddenly it cuts in a little bit of them in a perilous situation that we’re gonna see later. Oh, that was so good. And then the next guy, Max, the older guy who’s kinda the, the father figure to these campers or whatever, comes in and tells a story, and he does a damn good job of telling a campfire story.

Clip: In the air, the scent of death crawling Full moon the witness as one by one they trespassed his ground and chose to take chances. Dragged into the black, a rose 

Todd: in the ground And as he tells it, we see cuts of feet walking down, dragging an ax, and these mysterious gross hands, like lighting a candle. And, you know, we’re basically being introduced to the villain of the movie through his story, and then we’re seeing clips of this villain in the movie which are cluing us into the fact that, uh, he’s around and he’s alive.

And I just felt like this whole opening sequence built up a, a great deal of anticipation, and I was damn impressed. 

Craig: Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, he basically, he tells the story like I, I guess there was a farmer, and he went crazy, and he killed his wife and kids, and then he went into town, into the bar or something, and the town’s people hung him or something and- Yeah

he had a bloody gash on the side of his face, but the next born- the next morning he was gone, and the bodies of his wife and kids had disappeared. And, and like you said, this is all kind of like in a campfire song. 

Clip: All I do know is that on certain nights when the moon is full, he’s out there stalking in the woods, searching for people so he can chop their heads off with an ax or hang them from a tree.

You trying to be funny or something? What’s this farmer’s name anyway? Richie, I have a good reason I haven’t told you his name, a very good reason. You see, it is said also that if you say his name above a whisper in the woods, he will hear you because he can be anywhere, anytime, and if he hears you call his name, he’ll come for you, and if he comes 

Craig: for you, he’ll get you.

And it’s like, “One by one you’ll start to fall. Before night’s end, I’ll get you all. His name is Madman Mars” Mars … or something. Yeah. Yeah. But it, it is a really fun way to kind of introduce the lore. Like you said, i- in terms of the story, there’s really not a whole lot to it. Like, they, they give us this exposition so we know who the bad guy is, and we see this bad guy s- skulking around and kind of stalking everybody, and the old guy’s like The old man Max or whatever is like, “Oh, you shouldn’t be, you shouldn’t be singing these songs.

You shouldn’t be provoking him. Don’t walk alone in the woods.” And then right away, one of the kids, I guess, for lack of a better word… Are, are th- these are the counselors, 

Todd: right? 

Craig: Yeah, I 

Todd: think they’re the- Like- … counselors. There are some kids, what, six? We rarely see them. Six or seven. I feel… Yeah, 

Craig: like, yeah.

And I feel like we don’t see them really until kind of the very end. Yeah. Or maybe I forgot, I don’t know. But one of the counselors almost immediately sees this guy, this madman, In the trees. Like, in the 

Todd: trees. Like, up in the trees. Right. And instead of walk- continuing to walk past with the rest of them, just quietly, quietly wanders off to pursue this guy or whatever in some weird way that just only makes sense because the movie needed somebody to peel off at this point.

Yeah. The story was supposed to be based on the Cropsey legend. These two- Right … were from New York, and we’ve talked about the Cropsey legend before. There’s several, The Burning that we did- Yeah … which actually was in production at the same time as this movie, and these two got wind of it and were like, “All right, we need to change our script a little bit so that we’re not doing the Cropsey legend like they are.”

And so they change it to this farmer murdering his, his family and stuff. But there’s a house just by the campfire- … within a stone’s throw, literally, of the campfire that al- otherwise looks like it’s dead set in the middle of the woods. 

Craig: Yeah. I- I mean, why? I mean- Why is there this- … large home- Right

abandoned out there in the middle of nowhere, just right next to the camp, like, 

Todd: okay. 

Craig: But 

Todd: nobody- That nobody’s- But whatever … messed- It doesn’t matter … nobody’s gone over there and messed with until this kid decides to peel off. You’re right, it doesn’t matter. He goes in. Again, the movie really plays with us here, where the kid goes in and he does this whole…

And sometimes, ugh, sometimes I feel like it’s really stretching for time. There is a lot of creeping around, as there are in these slasher movies. Yeah, yeah. But this one, this one seems to be a, a hell of a lot of slow creeping around. If you cut much of this out, you wouldn’t get an hour, I think, out of this movie.

Sure. But, you know, he, he’s creeping around in the house, and he goes up the stairs and stuff, but then it’s also cutting between him and this guy. It looks like a creature because we’re only seeing his feet and we’re only seeing his hands, but they’re hairy and he’s got these long nails, and all of it just looks like a gorilla almost.

Craig: Ooh, yeah, and prosthetic. Like, he’s- Yeah … barefoot. The, the madman is always barefoot, but his feet look like feet shoes. Like Yeah. They don’t, they don’t look… They’re not- The best. Yeah … they’re not lifelike. They, they, they look kind of plasticky or whatever But I mean, that’s fine. Yeah. I think it’s to suggest his wild nature and, you know, his kind of larger than life madmanism 

Todd: or whatever.

Like, 

Craig: And, and the same is true, w- we rarely see his face. You do see his face occasionally, but you rarely see it, but it too seems prosthetic. It, it, it seems, though it’s meant to be human, it’s exaggerated and- Yeah … gosh, I don’t know, caveman-like to some extent. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, he, he looks crazy. And it’s wild hair, and he’s got that slash in his face.

And saying all of that, it, it sounds really cheesy and stupid, and I suppose to some extent it is. But for whatever reason it worked for me in this movie, and I think a lot of the reason that it worked for me was the filmmaking and the cinematography- Yes … and how they kind of kept him in shadow a lot of the time.

He would just pop up in the back of a frame at totally expected times when you would be looking for him. Mm-hmm. But then yeah, there he is. You know? Yeah. Just, just for a second skulking in the background or in the shadow. And it’s not like that’s any kind of new technique. I mean, that’s, that’s totally typical.

I just thought that it was done very well here. The timing was good. Mm-hmm. Like, you would just see him for a second. Like, and in the second that you would expect to be seeing him, there he would pop up- Right. … just for a second in the background. And it didn’t linger, and it wasn’t gratuitous. I don’t know.

I just, I, I felt like it was really well, for what it is and for what it was trying to do, and I feel like they were working, you know, on a formula. This is 1981, so this is the early days of these type of slashers. But I, I feel like they understood the assignment, and- Yeah … they did 

Todd: it really well That’s what I was gonna say.

It’s like extremely competent- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm … at making this kind of movie. And that is impressive for a low budget effort by first time filmmakers who d- didn’t go on to really do anything else. You know, these actors, the only actor of note in this at all is the woman who plays the final-ish girl, Betsy- Mm-hmm

Galyn Ross, who was previously in, um, Dawn of the Dead. Oh. And, uh, I think she also played a role in Creepshow. She was, uh, she was in the Something to Tide You Over episode where the, Leslie Nielsen buried them up to the neck. Oh, okay. All right. Uh, but that’s it. Uh, she, I mean, she, th- a few of the others have done, uh, some bit roles on television.

She had a little bit more to do. She did some TV here and there and, and, and whatnot, but like she’s the most person of note in here. Everybody else is just… They’re fine, I think, at what they are, at what they’re doing. And for the first time, when we’re talking about the people, I don’t feel like this is a group of assholes.

No. You know? No. They actually all seem like cool people who are getting along and having fun with each other, and very conscientious of each other. And you know, one of the, one of the main characters here is TP, and I thought TP would last a lot longer than he did, honestly. But TP and Max end up back at the camp, and, uh, they have this scene where they can’t pull an ax out of a stump.

This is a setup, obviously, for, for something that’s coming later. But they’re trying really, really hard to pull this ax out of the stump, and this drunk cook basically comes stumbling out, and his, he’s Dippy. And they call Dippy over to help, and all three of them can’t pull this ax out of the stump. And this isn’t the first time that they do something that’s kind of set up without much payoff, but there’s some conversation that Max has with TP and, anyway, he’s kind of talking about grit or ver- verve or something like that, and he’s like- 

Clip: Oh, let it go, TP.

Ah, we lost. There’ll be another time. Maybe, but I don’t like losing. Losing, winning, what’s the difference? Play the game with a fair heart, and you’ll always be able to look yourself in the mirror. Play too hard to win, and you might not like what you become. You become a winner. That’s what you become And there’s 

Todd: this long stare like, “Oh, you poor young child.

You have no idea.” And I’m thinking, “Okay, this is like a thematic element that’s gonna come in. Like, maybe TP’s just gonna try too hard at something, and he’s gonna get in over his head, and he’s gonna fail.” No, uh, it doesn’t really happen. But it, it sure seems like they’re setting something like that up.

Obviously they’re setting up the, the ax bit to let us know that it’s almost impossible to pull this ax out of this stump. That’s 

Craig: related. Right. So that later the crazy guy can come along and just pull it out with one hand. Like Exactly. That’s funny. But yeah, I, I, I think somebody, I think it’s T.P. gets his throat cut at this 

Todd: point.

No, it’s Dippy. Dippy- Okay … the drunk guy who you knew wasn’t gonna… You knew he’d be the first one to go. Well, h- honestly, I thought that Richie, who was w- still wandering out in the woods and, and in that house apparently, was gonna be the first to go. I think he makes it to the end, doesn’t he? Doesn’t Richie make it- He does

to the 

Craig: very end? Yeah. 

Todd: Every time Richie popped up in here I was like, “Oh, he’s still alive?” Right. And, and, and he hasn’t really moved. He, he’s either, he’s either just s- walking around aimlessly in the woods, or for some reason he’s back at the house, but inexplicably not running into Madman Marz at all while he’s in the house.

I know. 

Craig: Even though he’s the first one to see him, and like- Yeah … it seems like he kind of knows he’s around and looking for him, and he’s always just kind of walking around looking around. Um, but he, uh- … he makes it to the end. But yeah, the Madman has a creepy lair in his basement. And then the next note I have, I wish…

I mean, I just watched this, but honestly the entirety of the plot is so un… There, there’s, there’s just not much to- Unremarkable … it’s unremarkable. And it’s fine, but like I have in my notes that hot people undress. I remember that. Oh, yeah. I remember, I remember that a couple of hot people got naked.

You’re just- That was hot … skipping all the way. Yeah. That was, that was interesting. Well- I guess that’s Betsy. It’s, it’s Betsy and some hot guy in a, an enormous hot tub. The biggest hot 

Todd: tub- Yeah … I’ve ever seen. Betsy and T.P. Yeah. That hot tub was massive. It was like three barrels big, and it looked like a giant barrel.

And she strips down and gets in it. He strips down and gets in it. And then there’s this, again, this great song with some words over it that’s being sung that sounds very ’70s, and they just are circling each other in that hot tub forever. Before they come together, their hands, and they start kissing and stuff.

And now we see, uh, Madman Marz POV as he’s coming up against them, and you can hear them inside, like, moaning, like, “Ugh, oh.” And Madman Marz is like, “Rah.” 

Craig: Yeah. “Rah,” all the time through the woods. There’s a lot of ADR, like- … uh, moaning and stuff- Yeah … throughout the whole movie. 

Todd: It’s fine. I liked it. It was fun.

It was fun. I love that these two are in the hot tub. I, I was like, “Get on with it already.” And then by the time they come together, the next shot we see after it comes from the outside is the, the bubbles are gone, and they both come up out of the water like they’ve been both underwater for some time apparently, and she goes, “Ha ha ha ha ha.

I was right in the middle, and you didn’t let me finish.” I didn’t understand- … what she was 

Craig: talking about.

But I don’t wanna talk about it. No, we don’t need to speculate. It just makes me uncomfortable. But I, I 

Todd: wasn’t sure what she was talking about. Yeah. Whatever it was, they both had to be completely submerged for, for whatever this was to happen, so- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm … that, that just adds to the mystery. Mm-hmm.

The only mystery of the movie really because like you said, the entire plot is a succession of people going out to look for the previous person who left- Yeah … walking through the woods. It is… It literally… It is so, so like that, that it’s almost comical. Like, the sixth time this happened, I was like, “So she’s gonna go look after him, who was looking after him, who was looking after him, who was looking after him.”

There’s just a whole trail of bodies back there. 

Craig: Yeah. But along the way, there are some… Gosh, I, I, I don’t have any con- I, I didn’t take a ton of notes because it doesn’t really seem like, you know, uh, and then s- they get killed, and then they get killed. Like, that’s just what it felt like. But, like, there are great shots along the way.

There are moments, yeah. There… Yeah, there’s a moment where a guy, I don’t remember if it was Richie or somebody else, is walking around kind of in the forest at night, and he’s got a flashlight. We see from, I guess, his perspective, the flashlight flashes across this wooded area and, and you see the Madman in the- His face

flashlight beam. Yeah, his face. But then he immedi- a- as though he realizes that he saw something and didn’t realize what it was, he immediately flashes back, and it’s gone. And this is so common. Like, it’s such a common shot in this type of movie, and yet I just was impressed by it. Like- Yeah. Wow. Me too.

Good job. Like, you really got that shot. Good job You pulled it 

Todd: off. Mm-hmm. You pulled it off way better than so many movies we’ve seen that try this shit. So many. So many. Right? Yeah. It’s good. W- we can just go through some of the little bits, right? Richie’s trying to- Sure … make his way through the woods.

Th- there’s a bunch of business with the counselors in the cabin that’s not important, and then eventually, you know, they’re like, “Well, Richie’s not back yet. We need to go look for him.” And TP decides that he’s gonna go out and find Richie, and he insists that he just go by himself. And I liked TP. TP was initially looking to be like he was gonna be the douchebag of the group because at the campfire he’s the one kind of singing the song, scaring them, and then the girl questions whether that was actually appropriate due to the fact that they had young kids there.

And then he gets in a little argument with his girlfriend, Betsy, that is dumb, but anyway, like, there’s some tension or whatever. And then when they’re back at the house and they’re having dinner, he stands up and apologizes for the whole thing. And then he’s s- super encouraging and he’s being real friendly, and he’s like, “Don’t worry, I’ll go be the one to find Richie.”

And I was like, “TP’s a pretty nice guy.” So I was kind of sad to see what happened to him. I thought he’s gonna last longer, ’cause I think he is probably the most developed character in this whole, this whole thing. Yeah, he goes out into the woods, and he, he’s looking for Richie, and a giant noose comes over his head- Mm

from behind, pulls him down to the ground. He gets dragged across the ground. Uh, you see close-up of the rope getting strung around the tree and around the branches and, and stuff of the tree, and then it gets yanked and he gets pulled all the way up to the top. And this guy struggles in a way I’ve never seen this.

Like, most other slasher movies, this is it. He got hung, he’s done. Mm-hmm. But no, he, he manages to pull himself up so where he’s hanging from the branch up above. Mm, mm-hmm. And that’s when the guy approaches. And again, we’re only seeing his, like, feet at this point. But gosh, even the Steadicam during this bit is good.

Mm-hmm. And his feet come closer and closer and closer, and TP’s got this annoying belt buckle that has TP on it. Yeah. This gross hand grabs that belt buckle and yanks it down, which of course snaps his neck and, and that was fantastic. It was- Yeah … brutal. It was really good. Really 

Craig: impressive. It looked really great.

I mean, that’s the thing. The whole time I was watching it, I was thinking, “This feels like a Friday the 13th movie- Ah, yeah … but so much, so much better than most of them.” 

Todd: Mm. Like, 

Craig: like I was even thinking even, you know, part one and two, and some might say three, are arguably the best of those movies. And you could put this movie up against any of those, and I think that it is just as good.

A- again, like, I’m, I’m shocked because there are far worse movies That are more well-known More famous. Uh-huh. Yeah. It’s so weird It’s entirely competent. It is entirely competent. And listeners, if you, like me, have never heard of this or seen it, and you are a fan of those types of movies, or you’re nostalgic for those types of movies, you’re gonna love this.

Yeah. It’s great in that category. I mean, it, you’re, you’re- In that category. In that narrow category. Yeah, in that narrow category, it’s great. It really is great. I’m not surprised that it ended up on a best-of list. I think it deserves it. It’s well done. 

Todd: As a story, it- it’s nothing. There’s no s- Nothing, no

there’s no story here. It is literally one person after another going to the woods and getting killed. Mm-hmm. But of that narrow genre of film with that baseline, it’s such a, a good version of that. F- And to be low budget with this these first time filmmakers is almost unbelievable, I think. 

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: I… The cinematographer, I guess, deserves a lot of, of, a lot of praise.

I should look up- A lot … who that is because my God, he, he’s carrying the whole thing. 

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: Yeah. The shooting is great. It looks really good. Well, Betsy’s upset that T.P.’s not back, and so Dave decides to be the man and go out and find him. And even Dave the jokester is apologizing, and he, out in the woods, runs across the body, and it falls down on him, and even his makeup was good.

Excellent lighting. And, and then the guy comes out and with his ax and starts swinging it. Now, I’m not exactly sure what keeps knocking Dave back. He stumbles back as al- as though he almost hit him, but he’s literally swinging an ax at him. I mean, if he had hit him, he would’ve- Mm-hmm … he would’ve gashed him or whatever, and he ju- he just keeps falling back.

But anyway, the last shot is Dave is on his back, and this guy leaps into the air with his ax and comes down on Dave, and then cut to the people back in the cabin. And that was a dramatic shot. Mm-hmm. Really good. Now, because those aren’t back, Stacy decides to go out. This is literally- 

Craig: Yeah … how it goes. I know, right?

Like, they just keep looking for… Like, and I didn’t even… I, I, I didn’t even bother to try to learn their names. I was like- Uh-huh … the brunette with the perm finds decapitated Dave.

Todd: Oh, gosh. It’s so funny. And Stacy’s… It’s so funny because at this point she’s in the woods going, “Dave? T.P.? Richie?”

Like, you got three people to find. Oh, then she, yeah, she finds Dave and, and goes, “Dave, are you hurt?” And pulls up this body, and then this bloody neck stump comes up to her So funny It looks so- I thought it looked great. Like, you could see- It did look good … 

Craig: you could see the spinal cord, like, in there. Yeah.

Man, it looks really good. And, and there’s also something that they do in this movie several times, I feel, if I remember correctly. Like, when somebody, like, stumbles upon a body, then the body will start to get pulled away slowly. Like- Yeah … like, the Madman is there, like, still finishing up his work when they stumble upon the body- True

and he’s just, like, kind of pulling the body away. Oh- Uh-huh … it’s funny. Well, she runs away. And, and there are creative kills in this movie, too. Yeah. I don’t remember exactly how this happens. I don’t remember why she 

Todd: gets under the hood of the car. Yeah, she’s constantly having trouble with this big yellow pickup, right?

She drove the pickup… Now, this bit I don’t understand. Before all this, she got in the pickup, and there’s this whole scene where it’s not starting, and she goes to the front, opens it up, and fixes something. In the meanwhile, she’s sort of being stalked, and we think she’s gonna get it. She gets in, and she starts it, and by this time, the killer is at the door, and we have a close-up of his hand on the handle, but it slips away as she drives off.

Now, where did she drive? I don’t know, 12 feet in one direction? Yeah. The, I… That’s the only explanation. And the car must have died, I guess, right? Again, I guess, yeah. ‘Cause now she’s running to it, and she can’t start it, so she opens the hood again, leans her head in. And he chops off her head with the car hood- 

Craig: The- Which I…

That, that’s a great kill. That’s, that’s great. 

Todd: I love that. Fantastic. He leaps onto it, too. He doesn’t just slam it down. He leaps onto it. It’s pretty good. Yeah, and decapitates her. It’s great. 

Craig: And then Ellie- And Bill … like, like, they show up on the scene. Like, Ellie shows up on the scene first and sees the Madman, and then she screams for her friend or boyfriend, I don’t know, Bill, to come.

But by the time that Bill shows up- … the body is gone- Uh-huh … and they don’t see anything, despite the fact that we can see that the blood from the decapitation is still on the hood of the truck. But they just, they, like, they just don’t see it. They’re like, “I, I guess nothing happened.” It’s so funny. And then this, this part, I…

Gosh, seriously, I really thought this was kind of genius. He tries to start the truck, and the sound effect of him trying to sound, trying to start the truck, in my notes I have, “It sounds squishy,” when he tries to start it. Yes. So he goes and looks under the hood of the car and finds her head under there.

Ugh. Uh. Gosh. It’s, I, it’s 

Todd: great. And ever the trooper, he’s got like a pillowcase or something. He immediately pulls the head out. Bless Bill. They get back in the car, and then suddenly, um, as he’s try- as he starts it and it’s about to take off, an arm comes in the window and, uh, pulls him straight out the window while she’s- Yeah, like while 

Craig: the, while he’s driving the car.

And like- Oh yeah, it’s moving … yeah, and it, it, it looked… I thought it looked really good, him getting pulled out of the car. And then the car is still running, still rolling. Like I don’t know if it’s in drive or in neutral or whatever, but it’s still rolling, and it ends up hitting a tree. And so Ellie, I guess due to the impact or whatever, falls out of the car- Mm

and, and, and hurts her knee. I, I also would be interested in knowing who the sound person was for this because the ADR was fantastic. It really was. She looks back to see the Madman holding Bill over his head, and then the camera kind of cuts away from that. But in the soundscape, you hear a snap as- Yes

though he has just snapped him right in half. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I know. It wa- It’s really effective. And I almost feel like it was more effective that you only heard it. Like y- you see him, and this is all of course, you know, backlit, like he’s in silhouette and he’s holding this guy, a big guy- Mm … up above his head, and then it cuts away, and then you just hear the snap.

You don’t see it. And I thought that not only was that really effective, but it was also really clever, especially on a budget. Yeah. You don’t have to pay for some sort of effect to see him getting snapped in half. You just hear it, and it works. Like- It does … it, it really worked well. 

Todd: The, the sound effects editor in this was Richard W.

Haines, who shortly after- Good job, Mr. Haines … good job, Mr. Haines. And shortly after working on this, went to work for Troma. He wrote and directed Splatter University: Class of Nuke ‘Em High. He was an editor on The Toxic Avenger. Yeah, kind of interesting in this regard. And I just looked up the cinematographer.

This is James Lemmo, and James Lemmo has about 14 movies to his name as a cinematographer. He directed eight films, but in his director of photography credits, we have Maniac Cop- Oh … and Maniac Cop 2. Nice. So we have, uh, we have seen some movies. I, I think I remember The Maniac Cop being pretty well edited.

I don’t know. Yeah. Yeah. Or cinematography, I mean. Sure. Cinematography. Great. Yeah. Oh, yeah, so that was cool. And you’re right, it’s, again, it’s another very dramatic scene with the light behind him as he’s holding him up over his head too, and we never see his body, so we don’t know if he’s been snapped in two, but it sure sounds like it, right?

Mm-hmm. So yeah Hated to see those two gone. Now they’re dead. Now, now we- And then 

Craig: we come 

Todd: back to Richie. 

Craig: Like, I did read in the trivia that they were kind of trying to set it up for a sequel, but I don’t know. Th- this whole Richie business, like he’s just always wandering around. Yeah. And, and he sees the madman going in and out of this old abandoned house.

And when I say an old abandoned house, it do- Not that old … it just looks like somebody’s house. Yeah. Like, like it’s, it’s really not like super dilapidated or anything. No. It’s not falling apart. But, but he, he like goes in there and looks around, and I don’t remember, you know, if he goes into the basement or…

But we just see a shot of his face, like discovering something- Yes … and he’s horrified by what he sees. And then it cuts away, and we… Like not just cuts away from him, but cuts to an entirely different scene. So we don’t know what he saw or what he did. Like- 

Todd: I know, and I am intensely waiting at this point for the end of the movie, ’cause I really wanna know what he saw.

I wanna know what he’s bringing all these bodies back for. I thought it would be like, oh, uh, I, I, you know, immediately Jeepers Creepers was coming to my mind. Yeah, right, right. Remember how at the very end… Yeah. Like, I just thought, “Okay, there’s gonna be some cool thing that he’s done with these bodies.”

And anyway, now we’re back to a completely different scene where- Mm-hmm … Ellie is out and, uh, running away. She, she did nothing to try to help Bill at all. She ran, ran away from that 100%. She gets stalked for a long while in the cabin. He breaks down the, the door with his ax, kind of Shining style, and she runs around.

And she makes the weird decision to quickly clean out the fridge and hide in the refrigerator. That was weird. I’m not sure if that was a genius move or like the dumbest thing. It’s dumb. You’re trapped in there. Yeah. It’s a great shot, ’cause you can see it’s almost split screen the way that it’s shot, where you can see both the kitchen and the living room.

You can see him coming, like he’s gonna come around the corner into the kitchen, and you can see her in the kitchen just in time closing that door of the fridge on herself, and she hides in there. And it, it ends up working out for a little while, but she eventually gets axed as well. There’s a- Yeah, in the chest, right

it’s a pretty long sequence. And then Betsy now has a shotgun and she… Does she discover some bodies? She calls Max. 

Craig: I, I don’t know who Max is or I, I don’t know if he’s like the camp owner or, uh- Yeah … I don’t know. But she, she calls him and tells him to come back, so he’s coming back. And then- This is one of the things that always frustrates me about the Friday the 13th movies is that it’s a camp movie, but there’s hardly ever any kids in it.

Right. Like, I feel like I- there are a couple of Friday the 13th movies where there are actually kids there, but most of them there’s not. But in this one she, a little girl, like, runs out of the cabin and Betsy tells her to wake everybody up and get them on the bus. And like you said before, she does. She gets the kids on the bus.

But it seems like at a camp where there’s, I don’t know, what would you say, 10 to 15 counselors- Right … it seems like there’s, like, maybe eight kids. Yeah. It’s true. Oh my God. Oh. And she puts them all on the bus and she starts to drive away, but the bus stalls. Well- Uh-huh. Oh, 

Todd: because- Uh … as, as they do. 

Craig: And then the- And- This- The- Yeah, go

the madman tries to get in to the bus but doesn’t. I don’t- She whacks the 

Todd: heck out of his hand for a good minute. She’s there with, like, something in her hand, a bat, I don’t remember what it was, and she whacks the hell out of that guy. And I, I was getting real Shelley Duvall moment here because she had a little bit of her look.

Yeah. But also just this desperation of her swinging that bat and just going on and on and on. I thought she was gonna go insane. 

Craig: Betsy, Betsy was, she was the blonde, right? Yeah, yeah. Like, a- and I see why you say Shelley Duvall. I, you mentioned that she had been in a couple of other things and, and things that I’ve seen, but I don’t remember her.

Yeah. But I, I do, watching this I was thinking, “She’s striking.” I, I, I see why- Mm … she’s an actress. She looks great on film. She, I mean, she’s pretty, period, but she’s got these really big eyes. Yeah. Yeah. She has a really distinctive look and really big, big blue eyes, and she looks good and her look works for her in this role.

I don’t know. Yeah, she whacks his hand and he- Kinda leaves. I, I, I guess they get the bus started again and she tells somebody, I don’t know, one of the remaining adults I guess, to leave. She’s like- Yeah … “Get the kids out of here, but I have to stay here- … to look for any other survivors.” 

Todd: Okay. That’s so stupid.

And, and I think- You’re right. I think she gets this. First of all, I was shocked there was a bus. And then she gets this idea because I think she looks out the window and she sees that he is going into the house. I was like, “What is the geography of this?” That you can see- Right … the same shot we’ve been seeing of the house all this time from the window of this bus that is supposedly just right by the camp.

But anyway, so she… Yeah, you’re right. She’s gonna go in and see if she can find the others. It’s dumb. At this point I can’t wait to see what’s in the house, so I’m, I’m all on board with Betsy going in and checking it out And at least she’s got a shotgun at this point. Mm-hmm. Again, like you kind of said earlier, some really interesting shots in here.

I mean, it takes a while for her to poke around in the house, but there are moments where this guy is literally behind her- Mm-hmm … in the shadows, and she has no idea, and then he just kind of disappears. It, it’s really good. But yeah, at this one point she’s in this living room and he tosses something, in a brilliant move for a guy that I didn’t imagine we were supposed to believe had a lot of brains.

Mm-hmm. Uh, he tosses something and it shatters, and that freaks her out. She spins around and shoots the shotgun. And unlike most other movies too, they were right about the fact that a shotgun you can only shoot it once before you gotta reload. Mm-hmm. And I was shocked at that too. I was a pr- So, so that, that was his way of getting her to unload the gun.

So as she’s trying to reload it, boom, uh, he springs out of the shadows. And, uh, 

Craig: gets her. And he hits her. Yeah. He hits her in the face. And, oh my gosh, I, I thought this was fantastic too. He hits her in the face so hard that it takes the skin off of her face to the bone. Yes. And, and you, and you see it. Like- The makeup is great

and not only do you see the aftermath, but it’s shot so skillfully that you… I felt like I saw it happen. Right. Like, I felt like I saw him hit her and the skin come off her face, and I could see the bone. Mm-hmm. It looked, it looked… I mean, it was, it’s gruesome. It’s very violent- Yeah … and gruesome, but care was taken there for that moment.

You know, he could have just hit her in the face, you know- Yeah … 

Todd: and 

Craig: knocked her out. Knocked her out. Mm-hmm. And then she coulda had a bruise or a scratch or whatever. No. Like, there is serious, serious makeup work going on there, and it looks so good. And then he drags her by her hair down to a basement.

And this is the part, this is the point in the movie where I was really surprised because I thought, “This girl is for sure the final girl. She’s gonna best this guy.” And when she was disfigured in the face by him hitting her, and then he drags her down there, not only that, then he picks her up and hangs her on a meat hook.

I was like, “Oh, shit.” 

Todd: Like 

Craig: Yeah. Me 

Todd: too. I did not expect that. The Texas Chainsaw Massacre treatment on this girl. And again, it looks really good. Pokes right through her ch- her chest. She’s not coming back from this. 

Craig: No. But somehow, I think she has a knife, and somehow she manages to stab him with… Y- like, it’s a big knife.

I mean, it would, it would, you know, cause some serious harm to anybody- normally, but, you know, based on what we’ve seen this guy endure up until now, it doesn’t seem like it’s gonna be that big a deal. But, but she stabs him and, and what happens is he kind of stumbles and knocks over a candle, because he’s a big candle guy.

Todd: There 

Craig: are candles all around. 

Todd: This guy loves candles. He, he likes to light them. He likes to put them out. He does a lot of lighting and putting out- With his hand … ca- yeah … yeah, right. 

Craig: And it starts a fire, and it’s at this point that we see, and I think that she sees, that all of the other bodies are in the basement.

But then- Yeah … it just all burn, like, it just burns up. Like Yeah. Sorry, no, 

Todd: no final girl treatment for you, Betsy. Like- Nope. And I was disappointed. I, I thought, I guess this was, like, a tableau of the bodies, I suppose. I thought, again, I thought I was gonna see something cool here, and I guess he was just astonished at seeing all of his friends dead, propped up in a, in a line.

Is that what Richie was so freaked out by when he- 

Craig: I guess. I guess. 

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: just se- I guess that’s it. Because I mean, that’s it. Like, the, the hou- y- you know, everything goes up in flames, and then it cuts to a new scene where Max, the old guy who Betsy had called, he was on his way. He’s on his way, and he finds Richie in the street, and Richie has just…

Like, he’s lost it. Like- Mm … he’s, he’s gone. Like, he- he’s lost his mind apparently. 

Todd: Yeah. And, 

Craig: and then we see another scan of all of the bodies from throughout the movie, and then there’s a song. 

Todd: Yeah. A- and the Mad Man walking along in shadow, I think- Yeah … supposed to give the implication that he’s still out there.

He’s alive. He made it out. Yeah. And why wouldn’t he? That, yeah, but the Mad, 

Craig: the Mad Man song is, is really quite good. Like- It is. Lore 

Clip: of the campfire. Telling of his horror. Lost in the woods. With the Mad Man and the stars. Don’t laugh at the tales. Heed if you call him. The legend is beware the Mad Man Mars.

The legend is beware the Mad Man Mars. 

Craig: It’s on the nose. I mean, it was surely written for this movie. Uh- Oh, yeah … but, uh- It was … it- All 

Todd: of them were. Oh, it was sung by TP too. TP sang at least two, maybe three of the songs that are in the m- It- Hilarious, right? I mean, 

Craig: it, it was… The whole Richie, you know, kind of being insensible or whatever at the end was k- I don’t know.

I, I didn’t- Yeah … need it. I, I kinda didn’t ne- You know, a- again, like I, I- Kind of mentioned it earlier, they were trying to set up a sequel where Richie was gonna be pegged for all of the murders, but the madman was still out there or whatever. And obviously that’s a sequel that never happened, which is probably fine, though- Right

if Friday the 13th and any of these other movies deserved a sequel, why shouldn’t this one? I mean- It’s true … but whatever. Ultimately, I walked away from it thinking, “Dang, that 

Todd: was pretty good.” It was. It wasn’t, like I said, not gonna win any awards on story. The characters are just long in the line of getting killed, which is very typical.

It’s pretty much like any Friday the 13th movie. None of them really make any attempt at story. Well, except maybe the fourth one has a little bit more character in it, but- I, I just, 

Craig: this… Anytime it’s your turn to pick a movie and you pick something old, I’m like, “Oh boy, here we go again.” And that’s kinda how I was feeling about this one, and I was really very pleasantly surprised- Yeah

by how competent it is. Now again, as, as we said before, if you’re not interested in this narrow niche of films, then you’re probably not gonna like it. But if you are a fan of those type of films, it is a diamond in the rough. Like- Yeah … I, I’m just so surprised that I had never heard of it or seen it before.

It’s more worthy of attention than many of the films that we’ve talked about here. Yeah. So, so thank you. I, I appreciate you bringing it to our attention, ’cause I think it deserves it, and I hope that some of our listeners who like this kinds of things, it’s a treat, you know? It is. There are only so many of these movies for us to mine from, you know?

Like, w- we’re fans, we love them, but we’ve seen just about everything, and every once in a while you stumble across something that you’d overlooked and it turns out to be really good. But that happens so rarely. Yeah. It- And, and, and so, so it really is a joy when it does happen, and I’m happy, hopefully, to be able to share that with other 

Todd: people.

Yep, I completely agree with you. I did not expect this to be good at all, and it, it is just as unremarkable as I thought it would be in terms of a story and whatnot. Very typical, if not even more paint by numbers. But like we said before, and can’t say enough, just, uh, it’s, it’s really well done. Really, really competently well done, and, uh, fits the mold.

When you’re in the mood for something like this, this is what you gotta see. Yeah Well, Craig, we actually have a, um, message from a listener who called into our, uh, website where you can go, and if you just tap Talk To Us is the link on the website, then, uh, you can record a quick message for us, and we say that we will play them on air and respond to them, and let’s do that now.

Mr. Beak: Hey, guys. This is Mr. Beak up in, uh, Minnesota. Long time listener, first time caller. Been a fan for, like, five years now. Listened to many of your episodes multiple times. My favorite episode of yours is Ghost Watch. Probably listened to it at least 10 times. Think you guys are just really funny on that episode, and I like your stories about going up to Canada.

Uh, just wanted to pop in and say I appreciate what you do. Gotten a lot of good recommendations from you guys, and I’ve also avoided a lot of terrible movies because of you guys, and I appreciate that. I have a little bit of an ulterior motive. Figured I might as well pop in here and throw a recommendation for Happy Birthday to Me.

I think you guys will have a really fun conversation about that one, especially the ending. Hope you have a good one. Bye. 

Todd: Thank you, Mr. Beak. Yeah, 

Craig: thanks. That was, that was nice. Gosh, it, it always makes me so happy to hear from people. Just, uh, as cliched as it sounds, it, it really does warm my heart and, and make me feel good.

I don’t 

Todd: remember us talking so much about Canada on Ghostwatch. 

Craig: I don’t either. But was it- I don’t remember anything. We’ve done so many episodes. Like, I can’t even remember what movies we’ve talked about. Yeah, I, I do remember that we talked about 

Todd: Ghostwatch. No, Ghostwatch is the British one. I think he’s talking about Ghost, um, oh, Ghost, Ghost, Ghost something.

It’s that lodge where they find this lodge up in Canada. Yeah. And it, it’s the movie that was based on the Windigo story- Yeah … but got chopped up, and it’s kind of incomprehensible. And I remember we wasted a lot of time in the beginning just talking about our Canada experience because we didn’t know what we were gonna be able to say about the movie.

It turned out to be a fun conversation. 

Craig: That’s good. Oh, man. No- Well, yeah, thank you for, uh, the message. It was really nice. And happy birthday to me. I don’t know if I’ve 

Todd: seen that. It’s an oldie, and I’m, I… It’s on our list, and I, I’d bump that up to the top because I’ve been meaning to- Yeah … for actually a while

my birthday’s next month. Heck yeah. We could, uh, do a birthday episode. Mine too. Yours is in April as well, right? Yeah, yeah. April should be our birthday month. Okay. Happy birthday to me. Let’s do it. It’s gonna happen in April. All right. Thank you very much. Well, thank you guys all for listening. And again, you can go to our website, chainsawhorror.com, click Talk To Us, and leave us a message there as well.

You can just Google us, uh, Two Guys and a Chainsaw podcast and find all of our socials and leave us a message there, too. We love to hear what you think about what we’re doing here. We’d love to hear your comments on movies, get good conversation going back and forth. We always have a lot more conversation going on behind the scenes on our Patreon at patreon.com/chainsawpodcast.

For just five bucks a month, you can get in there on all the discussions. We have a very vibrant book club going on right now where we read horror and horror-related books and, and discuss those every week or two in a video chat. We’ve got our unedited phone calls, uh, up there, and that means that even when I’m slow at getting episodes out to the general public, you’ll get them almost immediately after we record them with all of the unedited goodness and all the little chitter chatter that we have back and forth before and after the show, and the things that we desperately want to keep from the general public.

All can be yours, patreon.com/chainsawpodcast. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

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