Maniac (1980)

Ep 472, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys And a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, here we are with our second episode of the New Year, our first episode of the year. That is not holiday themes. I proposed this to Craig because this is a movie that I think we were just bound to do eventually.

It’s been on the list forever. There’s been a remake of it that I’m very curious about, and so I imposed this upon him. This is 1980’s Maniac. Directed by William Lustig, and this is a notorious film for horror fans. It’s, it’s a bit of a cult classic. 

Craig: There was no other inspiration, like it was [00:01:00] just something that had been in the back of your mind for a long time and you just decided now.

Yeah, like when you texted me, you’re like, I’m pretty, I don’t think we’ve ever done this. We should do it. And I was like, okay. That was it.

I mean, I, I agree with you. You’re right. It is, uh, notorious isn’t the right word, really, but it is a, a movie that. Big time horror fans are familiar with, and I was actually a little surprised that we hadn’t done it yet. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: I kind of assumed we had, 

Todd: I know we’re getting to that point now, aren’t we? Where we’re over 10 years into this.

Mm-hmm. And we forget, I think on a previous episode, we went for a while without realizing we had referenced a movie that we had already done. And I think they’re, 

Craig: I can’t remember. 

Todd: There’s certainly been times when we’ve proposed movies that we had to go back and check the catalog and make sure we hadn’t already done them.

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: But we’re also old men and our minds are going so that’s part of as well. True. No, I, I mean, I was looking for some films because I’m still a bit on vacation. You are too. [00:02:00] I was looking for some films that we could access pretty quickly and easily. Yeah. Without any trouble. This is a widely available, you can get it.

On Tuby for free. And also I thought it would be good to go with something classic, because we’ve been doing some modern ones lately. 

Craig: True. 

Todd: And we need to maybe get back to doing some of those older more. I mean, you don’t think it’s notorious. What do you mean by that? 

Craig: Well, I, I feel like Notorious, uh, has kind of negative connotations and I don’t think that there’s anything necessarily negative to say about this movie.

I don’t know it. It’s about a guy that kills beautiful women, but it’s not particularly scandalous or nasty. I mean, it’s kind of nasty, I guess, with some of the gore and some of the kills, but, 

Todd: well. 

Craig: I don’t know. 

Todd: I guess maybe we have different definitions of Notorious. I think it could go both ways. I, I wasn’t meaning to imply that this film is like particularly nasty.

I mean, obviously in this era, 1980, this was one of those movies that, for example, in Great Britain had some resistance to getting, I don’t even think it, it got released in the theaters in Britain. [00:03:00] Due to censorship, and it was one of those, well, actually maybe it was released in the theater, but it was banned for video later.

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: As one of those video nasties, 

Craig: it’s gritty and I like that about it. I think that that’s one of the more appealing things about it, is that it is gritty, and I very much enjoy these movies that. Set specifically in New York City, but yes, it doesn’t really matter. Just, just different cities in in this time period because they were so different.

Todd: Yes. 

Craig: New York, especially when it’s portrayed in these movies in the seventies and eighties, feels scary, right? Every movie, New York, I think it’s not necessarily a place that you would wanna hang out in, it’s, it’s, it’s dirty and gritty, but. Cinematically. I really enjoy that. Yeah. It’s, it’s a, a fun.

Environment and time period to visit. 

Todd: I think very specifically, very early in our podcasting career, we did basket case and I just [00:04:00] remember, 

Craig: yeah, yeah. 

Todd: One of the massive appeals of that movie was that it was a gritty movie set in a version of New York City that doesn’t exist anymore, and it just so much fun to kind of see that and see it in all its dirtiness.

Craig: Well, yeah. And, and this movie, like that movie filmed kind of kamikaze style in that they didn’t always have permits to film wherever they were. So they would film real quick and then run away. 

Todd: Yeah, exactly. And, 

Craig: and I love that. 

Todd: I love that too. It’s, and it comes through right in. Film, obviously, and it’s also directed by William Lustig.

This was his first guess you could say, mainstream film. I mean, I don’t think this, I mean this movie was released at theaters, but it obviously didn’t have a very mainstream audience. But, uh, he was a porn director before this. He did a couple porn movies and so, yeah, I mean, all of it, it just feels like a little bit seedy and a little dirty, which is fun.

But, you know, we’ve got the involvement of, uh, Joe [00:05:00] Spinel. This is one of his earlier films, and he has. Had gone on to from this to do lots of stuff in mainstream 

Craig: film. I wanted to say something about him because I have seen this movie at least once before and watching it again, it is kind of gritty and he’s such an unlikely.

Protagonist. Right? Because he is not a good looking guy. 

Todd: No, 

Craig: I’m I, I’m sorry. I, I mean, I don’t mean to be superficial, but he’s not, he’s heavier set like I, I, I can’t even really give him. Like face. Yeah, like, like normally you could say, but he’s got a handsome face. No. Like this is not, he’s not a good looking guy.

Todd: No. 

Craig: And he plays this kind of skeevy guy. And I had seen this movie at least once before, but I had never looked him up before and I looked him up and I was so impressed. 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: Like he is a serious. Dude, he’s been in Shakespeare companies. He’s [00:06:00] been in like two or three Academy Award-winning films. He was in at least a couple of the godfathers.

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: he was well liked and well respected by some huge names in the industry. Some big directors, 

Todd: close friends. 

Craig: Yeah. He was great friends with Sylvester Stallone, who I’m not very impressed with right now. But he has so many connections in the industry and has. Done so much. I was so impressed. So Joe Spinel, I, I’m sure you’re listening.

I apologize for commenting on your looks. I am super, super impressed with your resume. Damn. 

Todd: Well 

Craig: that’s, that’s impressive. 

Todd: I mean, you know, it just reminds us that, uh, acting needs all kinds of faces, right? If you know, yeah. You need big people and small people and, and, and conventionally unattractive people and all these roles need to be played.

And there are guys, I think like Joe Spinel, who do, because of their look, you know, get cast into some of these roles. It [00:07:00] does make for a little bit of an incongruousness with, there’s a part in this movie where he begins a bit of. I don’t know. He goes on some dates with this absolutely gorgeous woman and you do kind of do a bit of a double take thinking, would she be interested in this guy?

But to be fair, love works in mysterious ways and that you know people. 

Craig: Yeah. And to be, to be fair, very few of us. And certainly not me look like movie stars. 

Todd: Exactly. Who are we to talk about someone else’s look, 

Craig: right? Like, yeah, like, like I, I’m sure that there would be some people out there saying, Ugh, how could anybody fall in love with that guy if they saw a picture of me?

And it happens, 

Todd: right? Well,

well, it works out well for him in this, in this film. I think he’s well cast as this guy. Maybe a little too well cast. The remake of this stars a very attractive Elijah Wood [00:08:00] and 

Craig: Elijah Wood. That’s so wild. Joe Spinel is like a middle aged starting. To maybe go bald, heavy set, 

Todd: cock marked face, clearly had 

Craig: acne cock marked face.

Yeah. Like not, and, and, and I wouldn’t say a big guy. I mean, maybe a little bit bigger than me, but not by a lot. I mean, heavier set. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Guy. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And then Elijah Wood is this tiny little pixie person. Like I, I haven’t seen the remake. I, I am. Intrigued by it because just the contrast between. Those two men is 

Todd: Oh, yeah.

Craig: Shocking. 

Todd: When I heard that Elijah Wood had starred in a remake of this film, two thoughts went through my mind. Well, I was like, it’s either one of two things. Either they have really redone. The whole concept of this movie for the remake, [00:09:00] or Elijah Wood is trying very, very hard to like show his range and get out of that pretty boy beautiful face looking image that he had, you know, from The Hobbit and all that stuff.

Craig: I think that Elijah Wood is very interested in. I, I think that he’s an artist. Uh, 

Todd: yeah. 

Craig: I, I think that he thinks of acting as an art and he likes to challenge himself. He’s done lots of very interesting things. He’s done big time, mainstream stuff. But if you look at his. Resume. He’s also done lots of smaller indie, strange, and, uh, interesting things.

Yeah, he’s a cool guy. But yeah, I mean, it’s a stark contrast. I can’t, I, I think that I also, and, and I may be mistaken, I didn’t research this, so forgive me if I’m mistaken, but I think that the remake is shot entirely from his POV 

Todd: Oh. 

Craig: Like the whole movie is. [00:10:00] Killer, POV. 

Todd: Interesting. 

Craig: And so I don’t think that you actually see Elijah Wood that often.

I’m gonna stop talking because I may be misspeaking. Well, that, that, that, that was my understanding. 

Todd: If that’s true, that would’ve been a pretty easy paycheck for him. What, like a mirror shot every now and then Elijah wood space pops into the frame. Oh, God 

Craig: no. I did, but I did read a little bit about this.

I think. I think that I read that though. He wasn’t really in it that often. Always on set. 

Todd: Ah. 

Craig: Because he always wanted to see how things were being done. 

Todd: Wow. Interesting. 

Craig: He’s a cool guy. I, I have a lot of respect for Elijah Wood. He’s a cool guy. 

Todd: Yeah. And speaking of cool guys, I think William Lustig would be an interesting character to interview and I wish I had looked up a couple interviews with him because this is a guy who has kind of forged his own path.

And hasn’t done a ton, but he’s primarily worked in the horror industry. And as I said before, he came up through porn, sort of. Mm-hmm. I [00:11:00] mean, and that was not unusual for this time. I mean, freaking not at 

Craig: all. 

Todd: Our, one of our favorite directors, Wes Craven, even Ivan Wrightman did a saucy movie in Canada. I like, this was the time for that.

Craig: Yeah. I mean, it, it sounds so salacious. You know, just the word porn, you know, it, it sounds scandalous, but it’s filmmaking. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And it’s, you know, if, if you’re a young filmmaker and you need to work, you work and it’s not as though you’re not developing skills. Right. It’s, it’s not an. Illegitimate industry.

It’s an industry. It’s work. 

Todd: I mean, and it has to be said, especially at this time when those kinds of movies had much better production value. 

Craig: Absolutely. 

Todd: They weren’t just a guy running around with a camcorder. I mean, you had to have cinematographers and property lighting an 

Craig: iPhone, right? 

Todd: Yeah. I mean, for sure.

And so to be fair, like actually was an apprentice editor on Death Wish in 1974. I mean, he did. Other stuff even before he did porn. That was just an easy way for him to [00:12:00] get. And he did two movies as far as we know, two or three movies like that. And he was even, um, a production manager and co-producer and producer and on some Italian films with one of our favorite directors there, ar argento.

Tenere Inferno. We haven’t done Inferno yet. We did Tenere. So, I mean, he’s, he was around doing a lot of different things besides that, but he did with this film in particular, really set, I think a foothold in the, in the horror industry. And then we’ve done two other films by him. Mm-hmm. We did, uh, uncle Sam, which was a blast.

Yeah. Which is one of his more recent ones. 

Craig: I loved it. 

Todd: It was fun, like a, like a modern day gorilla style film. I mean, you know, the film didn’t have huge production value, but it had a lot of, uh, entertainment value. 

Craig: It was dumb, but I, I thought it was great. 

Todd: Yeah. But I think probably Maniac Cop is the one that gave him the most success because that has had some sequels.

It’s been played a lot. Have we done that? We did. We did the original Maniac Cop. Yep. It’s a silly movie, but God that got so much airplay on cable and 

Craig: [00:13:00] mm-hmm. 

Todd: Did really well on video and spawned a couple sequels and was talk in talks for doing a series for a while. I don’t think it’s, oh, that’s 

Craig: funny. 

Todd: I don’t think anything’s come of that yet, but who knows?

Something might. At some point. So I think he’s an interesting guy. He’s definitely got an eye for this. And I, you know, one of the things I’ll say about this movie is you could completely trash it as garbage. Like for example, gene Cisco did when he reviewed it. I think he famously said that he walked out after 20 minutes in.

But he was also that kind of guy. This guy didn’t really have a soft spot for horror at all. 

Craig: Nerd. 

Todd: Yeah. Are you saying I’m a nerd or are you saying Gene Sis? 

Craig: No, he Gene Sis. Oh yeah. For, he was the skinny one, right? 

Todd: Yeah. Nerd. Yeah, 

Craig: total nerd. 

Todd: Nerd. But um, honestly, this movie’s got some art to it, and as we were watching this, and it’s definitely a character study kind of movie, so it takes its time with the pacing.

It’s really in this guy’s face for the whole time. It’s slow, but I don’t think ever uninteresting, [00:14:00] I was getting vibes of. Christmas Evil. The one with the guy who, again, had the traumatic childhood and went around dressed as Santa. 

Craig: Oh, 

Todd: that one. And we thought this was just gonna be a dumb movie, but it, yeah.

Right. Which of the 

Craig: fuck, Christmas Evil? I think you’re, I think you’re right. I think it was, and then he flies away in his van at the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The one you’re talking about. 

Todd: Yeah. What a good movie. I, 

Craig: that was a good one. 

Todd: I’ve gone back and watched that during the holiday season. That was a good one.

Yeah. And that was also, well, it had flavors like this. I, it wasn’t quite as gritty, but it, it all took place in the city and, and it was this like serial killer, but whereas that guy had this. Had kind of an odder more complex, he had a bit of more heart to him, I suppose. Like you could really sympathize with him more.

This guy’s like the down and dirty version of that who has been much more damaged and much more traumatized and is a lot less sympathetic in a way, I would suppose. But I just felt like the two films, they occupied a similar space in my head. I don’t know if 

Craig: that, yeah, I [00:15:00] can see that. 

Todd: You know, 

Craig: this movie esp, you know, like I said, I’ve seen it before.

I don’t remember the last time I saw it at college sometime, probably. There are definitely a hundred percent great things that I wanna talk about. I wanna talk about the fact that Tom Savini is in it and did all the makeup and effects. 

Todd: Oh God. 

Craig: Which are great. I wanna talk about that. We already kind of talked about, you know.

Gritty. Early eighties, New York. Love that. This is one of those movies that I can appreciate on an artistic level, and I do think that there’s artistry. Yeah. I think that this is a good film. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And a film that aspiring filmmakers should watch to see what you can do with next to nothing. I, I, I am impressed with it in that way.

I did find it a little boring. And slow. 

Todd: Oh yeah. 

Craig: And I think that it depends on circumstance and, and so often I’m not watching these movies in the greatest of circumstances, 

Uhhuh, 

Craig: it’s almost like, I [00:16:00] hate to say this, but it’s almost like homework. You know? Gotta do my homework, gotta watch this movie 

Todd: again.

That you’ve already seen. Uh, 

Craig: yeah. Yeah. And right. There’s so many things that I genuinely enjoyed about it, but I wouldn’t go up to somebody and say, oh, you gotta see this. It’s so fun 

Todd: right 

Craig: now. 

Todd: Well, to be fair, it’s not meant to be fun, is it? You know? No. 

Craig: It’s 

Todd: one of those 

Craig: films. I don’t think so. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: But it’s good.

I do, I do appreciate it. I don’t want, like, I don’t wanna make it sound like I don’t, because I genuine, I I did appreciate it and there’s a lot of good stuff I think that Joe Spinel has to carry this whole goddamn movie on his back. Yeah. I think he does a great job, and not only do I think he does a great job, I think that he does something that’s very challenging and that he’s.

Fairly understated. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: It’s not like he, he’s not a Jack Nicholson. He’s not some big, crazy guy. He’s a [00:17:00] normal, crazy guy. 

Todd: He’s a believable, crazy guy. Right. I think, and we’ve talked about this recently with some other films about how. I think in the brood as well. I, I think when we were doing that, I was talking about the, the crazy actress’s performance and I said how I felt like she did it justice in that we see so many of these particularly low budget movies that are out there to make a buck with amateur actors that are going for full on exploitation or just trying to get something out the door.

You know, these actors play crazy like. Cartoon crazy. 

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: And you could try to do that and make this movie bigger, I suppose, in your mind, if you’re, you know, directing by doing that. And by not doing that, and by being understated, it’s definitely much more unsettling. 

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: Seems more real. And then when it’s combined with the gorilla.

Filmmaking in this gritty atmosphere mm-hmm. In these very ordinary situations with very ordinary looking people except for, you know, the [00:18:00] gorgeous photographer. The 

Craig: women, 

Todd: almost by requirement, and all of these movies are gonna be not ordinary looking at all. You know, it, it really works. And it comes, I think that alone makes you kind of sit up and pay attention to this movie a little bit more.

And, uh, but, but that it also has the. Side effect of maybe making it a little boring. You know, like it’s a day in the life of this guy who’s troubled and it’s, and it’s 

Craig: not boring. It’s not like nothing happens. I mean, he is a killer and he kills a bunch of people, so it’s not like nothing happens. I wasn’t terribly bored.

It was just, I don’t know, 

Todd: from time to time. 

Craig: Yeah, 

Todd: I get it. 

Craig: But I mean, okay, it’s 

Todd: character study. 

Craig: I don’t know how, I don’t know. It is, it does feel more like a character study, which is why it’s difficult to get into the plot because we could just say it’s about this. Serial killer guy who goes around and kills beautiful women.

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: he’s infatuated with beautiful women. I actually think that having him be a non [00:19:00] stereotypical, I, I think the fact that he isn’t a gorgeous person makes his character more interesting. I also think that he does a great job because. Spinelli or Spinel, excuse me, the actor, when he’s by himself, he’s crazy and he’s constantly talking to himself and talking to people who aren’t there and, and.

He’s very effective in doing that. But when he’s around these beautiful women, he’s charming, I believe a hundred percent, that he could charm these beautiful women. 

Todd: Oh yeah. 

Craig: Like he, he has confidence and he speaks to them with charisma and ease, and I a hundred percent believe that these beautiful women.

Would be charmed by him. 

Todd: Well, and he charms the photographer, not by just, Hey, I’m, look at me. I mean, they have a common interest, right? Right. He’s an artist. She’s an artist and so he’s, you know, he’s speaking her language and he’s fawning over her [00:20:00] work and things like that. And so, you know, that alone is another level of attraction that can sometimes initial looks and things like that.

Craig: Right, 

Todd: and you’re right about that. I think that, like you said, he is. Fine when he is out in public with people. Mm-hmm. And that totally tracks, I mean, I don’t know if you recently saw the Dahmer stuff on. 

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: You know, that’s been popular this last year and Jeffrey Dahmer was apparently a very charming guy.

Bringing people back to his apartment and then when he was in his element, you know, he’s this brutal killer who’s eating people. Mm-hmm. I mean, this is, this tracks with normal human psychology. There can ease, there can be people like this. We know of people like this. I think this was based on Ed Geen a little bit.

This was another one of those movies. Yeah. That was based on Ed Geen. A lot of movies claim to be based on Ed Geen and they seem to vary quite widely. Wildly. So 

Craig: I know I would say this one, I mean, uh, so when he does kill women, which he does prostitutes and other women that he encounters, he typically [00:21:00] scalps them and then staples their scalps to a mannequin in his apartment.

And he has multiple mannequins in his apartment and he has long scenes of monologue, I guess. Yes. It wouldn’t be fair to say dialogue because. The mannequins are not talking back to him, but he speaks to them at length and. It’s odd and at the same time trying my best to watch it with a critical eye. I’m like, this guy’s doing a hell of a job.

Like this is a hard job. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: To monologue, to mannequins realistically, and make me believe your lunatic headspace. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And. He does. 

Todd: He does. There was a moment, one of these earlier monologues when I didn’t realize his mouth was not moving. 

Craig: Oh, I didn’t either. 

Todd: We were actually getting his inner monologue and it was only about halfway through the scene that I noticed that as he was prepping this [00:22:00] body, I think it was the first one.

All this talk is actually coming out of his head, but then later it is. Yeah. Very much like he’s talking to his mannequins. There were a couple thoughts I had about this number one tourist trap. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: Tourist trap came out just the year before this came out, so it’s hard to. No. If one influenced the other, well they could have both been in production at the same time.

Could just be a coincidence. But sure, this killer with the mannequins and whatnot is a big kind of element of tourist trap just done in a different way. But also he’s a collector and I really liked that tracks, you know, with what we know about. A lot about the serial killer personality is they collect things.

I mean, this guy collects the scalps, but then he’s bringing in a new mannequin. Every time he kills a new girl, he nails the scalp to their head. He sleeps with it for a while until he’s killed another one, and then it goes up. In the room and they’re all looking down on him, and the collecting part actually comes straight out because when he approaches this photographer, eventually he asks her, you know, what makes you shoot [00:23:00] these women the way you do?

And she’s all about, I want, I, I, I’m trying to make them beautiful and all that. And he says, no, I think you’re trying to preserve them. 

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: I think you are preserving them at a certain point in time the way you want them to be, and you’re able to. Keep them that way. And you know, in a sense that’s sort of what he’s doing with these men.

’cause he is collecting to, he’s preserving these women, but all of it is overshadowed by this. Clearly messed up relationship that he had with his mother that we only get fleeting ideas of what that was exactly like. 

Craig: Yeah, and I kind of like that about the movie too, is that there are suggestions of maybe why he is the way he is and why he’s doing the things he’s doing, but they are subtle suggestions.

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: We’re not given an exclusive backstory. To explain why he is the way he is or why he does the things that he does. And I actually kinda like that. Like he’s, he’s, he’s crazy. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Well, that’s it. That’s all you need to know. He talks to the [00:24:00] mannequins that he, one of the things, uh, uh, you might need to clarify this for me.

When he speaks to the mannequins, I got the suggestion that he was blaming them for his. Actions like he, he kept saying things like, you’ve gotta stop doing this. If you keep doing this, they’re gonna catch you. And you, am I mistaken? 

Todd: It’s hard to understand. I was confused and I think that’s a possible interpretation.

I do think maybe sometimes it bounced back and forth between him, him addressing himself maybe, and him addressing the women. And I also wondered if he was addressing his mother or his women as. A stand in for the mother. This whole thing was a puzzle to put together really, and that I liked about it.

Like you said, these little bits and pieces are doled out in small bits, but. What was he saying at any given time? Sometimes I was wondering if there was a consistency there, if he wasn’t monologuing to himself and [00:25:00] sometimes he’s monologuing to the, the women he is killed. Sometimes he’s monologuing to his mother.

I didn’t really get a good, clear sense of that. 

Craig: Yeah. I mean, gosh, you know, early in the movie, one of the. When he’s just in his apartment alone with, I think there’s only one mannequin initially, and then he keeps adding them. But he says, please, they’ll take you away from me. You have to be careful. We can’t live like this.

I get so scared that they’ll take you away. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: It’s, 

Todd: I, 

Craig: I 

Todd: don’t think it’s his mother. I 

Craig: dunno. 

Todd: In retrospect, we get, and I can’t remember exactly how it gets doled out, but a lot of it is due to the things he says to the last woman. When he finally gets the photographer back to his place, and oddly enough, she’s the only one.

He doesn’t just kill straight outright, he actually brings her back. No, he ties her up in her own place, I think for no. 

Craig: She gets away. It’s 

Todd: the model. The 

Craig: last one gets away. 

Todd: Sorry, I’m talking about the model. 

Craig: The model. 

Todd: So 

Craig: yeah, 

Todd: he meets up with this [00:26:00] photographer because this photographer is taking pictures of him in the park.

He has some interaction with the little girl on a tricycle, which is always disturbing in a movie like this. 

Craig: This, I have to tell you that this really bothered me, and I don’t remember what the reason was, but for some reason Alan was watching just this part with me. Like I think he wasn’t feeling well, and so he didn’t want to.

Get up. And so like I was, I was watching it and he was watching it and okay, so he sees this woman in the park who takes a photograph of him. She’s not stalking him or anything, she’s just, 

Todd: yeah, 

Craig: taking photographs and he happens to be in frame. Then he goes over and subtly finds her address. On the tag of her camera case, and then he shows up to her house.

Yeah. And he knocks on the door and she’s like, who is it? And he is like, oh, I am Frank Zito. You took a picture of me in the. Park and she’s like, come in [00:27:00] and then, and then they just hang out like they’ve known each other. It was so strange, like she just invited this strange person into her house for no reason, and then they’re friends for the next 40 minutes.

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: it’s so bizarre. It was bizarre to me. 

Todd: I don’t think he gave an explanation as to how he found her apartment either. Did he like, he just like, 

Craig: how does he know where she lives? Yeah. Right. And why is she not freaked out about that? Like, I’m a stranger that you. Kind of sort of took a picture. It is not like she stopped him to take a portrait.

He just happens to be in frame. They had no interaction. 

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: and then he just shows up. You took a picture. Me. Okay, come in, let’s hang out like we’re friends. It was so strange. It was a 

Todd: different 

Craig: time. I guess 

Todd: maybe this is what made New York so gritty back then. 

Craig: Oh God. 

Todd: She brings him in and they strike up this friendship and it’s, again, it [00:28:00] mostly comes through his appreciation for her photography and because he himself is a, what did he, does he paint 

Craig: an artist?

Todd: Yeah, he’s an artist. So they have this sort of intelligent conversation about the nature of art, which I already kind of talked about, and they end up going on a date or two. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: He visits her studio and sees, gets introduced to one of the models at the studio as well. She’s a like a fashion photographer basically.

Craig: But yeah, she is. And he watches a whole shoot. And that whole, that model shoot was hilarious. Oh my God. It was so funny. So funny. Model in the middle. If you’re listening. Work bitch. That model in the middle was working. But before I forget, the other thing that Alan commented on, which I had noticed, but we watched so many of these movies that I don’t know, it just didn’t 

Todd: register 

Craig: necessarily, occur to me is that throughout [00:29:00] the entire movie, there is a.

Backing track of the guy, the main guy just breathing and grunting. 

Todd: Oh yeah. 

Craig: Did you notice that? 

Todd: I wondered if that was my, a HVAC system here at the house? 

Craig: No, the whole, the whole movie. He’s just like heavy perv breathing of Wow.

I knew the whole movie, which I is a choice and they committed to it and I respect that. But Alan was like, oh my God, it’s driving me nuts. 

Todd: You think they got Elijah Wood heavy breathing and though it’s in the remake. That 

would 

Craig: be fun. Can’t imagine. Can’t imagine what a hobbit would sound like. Grunting through a whole movie.

Right. Okay. Right. So the photo shoot, and he, he sees the whole photo [00:30:00] shoot and he steals a bracelet as a. Way to insert himself into this girl’s life. But then again, like he just shows up at her apartment and he’s like, knock, knock. And she’s like, hello, who’s there? And he is like, oh, I’m that gross, creepy guy from the shoot.

And she’s like, okay, well I’ll open the door a centimeter. And he’s like, you dropped this. And she’s like, oh, thank you so much. And he does something. I missed exactly what it was, but he somehow riggs the door so that it can’t lock. 

Todd: Yeah, I, he presses a, but I guess the, you know, when you open the door kind of along the.

Where the things come out to lock it or whatever. There’s a button you can press so that it keeps it from being locked or something. I don’t know. I mean, I’m, I’m aware of these things, but that’s sort of old fashioned too. Yeah, he does that. And then I thought this scene was particularly effective. We’ve got this girl who comes in, I believe this was one of the porn [00:31:00] actresses that they got because.

Somebody knew somebody and they were fairly inexpensive and wanted to do something that wasn’t porn. 

Craig: She was gorgeous. 

Todd: She was gorgeous. Yeah. She, she came in and, and I liked that this was a one shot deal. The movie knows what it’s doing, and it’s very coy about it. And I liked this u unlike a lot of the, the exploitation films that we would see where people just get on with it, where it’s just like, take the top off boom boobs or whatever.

Mm-hmm. This movie’s actually pretty mm-hmm. Pretty good about like, you know, teasing us a little bit here and getting the anticipation up for the nudity. She does what I think it was when we did, um, we did another movie from this era, the massacre one, where the guy was going around the hotel and killing people.

What was it? Oh God, the name of it. The name of it is, I couldn’t 

Craig: tell you 

Todd: right on the tip of my tongue, the two boys who were friends and the one turns on him real suddenly and one of ’em was a real famous guy who was in Land of the Lost, 

Craig: couldn’t tell you. 

Todd: Alright. So anyway, I was talking about in that movie too, where this girl goes to turn on [00:32:00] the shower, right?

She takes her. She takes her clothes off and then puts on a robe in preparation for getting into the shower. Who does this? Was this ever a thing? You should probably just take your clothes off, get in the shower, and put on the robe afterwards. So E, 

Craig: she was drawing a bath. Todd, you weren’t paying enough.

Todd: She was, but okay. So you’re drawing a bath, taking a shower. Save difference. You put on a, you take your clothes 

Craig: off. It takes a minute. It takes a minute to draw the bath. 

Todd: Yeah, but just, oh my God. Alright, sorry. Whatever. Anyway, it adds to the sensuality of 

Craig: it. It’s so it, well it’s always so funny to me ’cause I’m watching this movie, these movies and the boobs come out and I’m like, oh, that’s nice for Todd.

Todd: It always is.

Craig: She was a very beautiful woman and she had lovely. Breasts. 

Todd: Yeah. But no, besides that, like it was shot really well, you know, it wasn’t just full on, it was like the legs and the, [00:33:00] the thing drops 

Craig: and, and it was brief. It wasn’t gratuitous. 

Todd: Not at all. 

Craig: She, she took her top off and you briefly saw her. Topless and then it moved on.

Like it didn’t linger. It wasn’t, 

Todd: yes. And 

Craig: yeah, it was nice. 

Todd: And unlike that other movie, which was the Toolbox murders I now remember, which also had a porn actress in a very similar role who drew a bath because that one we got full on her masturbating and all this like just like. Felt super porny. This didn’t, 

Craig: no, not at all.

Todd: I really was impressed by, you know, the, the, again, the artistry we were going for here, but also once she gets in the bath, it is a one shot of her sinking into the bath, starting to wash herself. And that camera, and this was, I don’t know if they would’ve used a steady camera here. I mean, the steady cam had just come into operation around this time, but, uh, they probably couldn’t afford it.

That camera slowly and very steadily, pulls out of the bathroom and down the hallway, and you were just waiting for [00:34:00] the killer to come into view. And he does. But what a great tense moment. Mm-hmm. With this I, I, I just thought it was a fantastic shot that I wouldn’t have expected in a movie like this. So, you know, they, he really did a great job.

Yeah, with trying to create some tension with this stuff. 

Craig: There is so many movies that we’ve done like this, specifically from this era, either the late seventies into the eighties where they were shot on such low budgets, but there was artistry to them. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And I don’t want to sound like an old man and say like, they just don’t do ’em like they used to, but anybody with an iPhone can shoot a movie now.

Yeah. And, and, and of course, of course there are still skilled artists out there who are making films, but we’re so inundated with media. I, I don’t know that we necessarily even see them. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: I, I don’t know that they get the attention that they deserve. And I, I would say that of this movie, yeah, it’s low [00:35:00] budget and gritty, but in an artistic way.

And that sounds so hoity toity to say no, but it’s true. Care was taken. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: In shooting this film, 

Todd: again, I’m gonna sound like an old man saying this, but I get really tired of going to movies and not feeling like they’re shot cinematically. You know, like, yeah. It’s just a bunch of bouncing around the camera’s just cutting left to right, close up far away.

Everything’s handheld, and, and that seems to be the default that low budget productions go to because it’s easy. And it also just happens to fit with the style of the time now, but like you look back on these and they feel more cinematic even though they’re low budget. 

Craig: And it’s not even to say that this is an excellent movie.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say that, but I, I really think, and I imagine that they probably do, people who are interested in filmmaking, and I’m, I’m speaking [00:36:00] about this particular era, but. I’m sure it’s true of many eras. You know, people who want to be filmmakers and who want to be artistic in their, in their filmmaking should watch movies like this.

Not necessarily to emulate, but to see 

Todd: what’s possible. 

Craig: Yeah. And, and, and choices that Yeah. Cinematographers and directors are making, again, not necessarily to emulate, but there’s, I think, that there’s something to be learned. And, and, and I. Also think, and again, sounding like an old man, there’s something to be learned from filmmakers who were doing it before.

There were so many other easy options. 

Todd: Yes, yes. 

Craig: When they had to. I, I’m not denouncing. CGI or, or any of the advancements. I mean, all of those advancements are amazing and have their place in filmmaking. But to look at the choices, the stylistic choices [00:37:00] that filmmakers were making before all of that was available, I think is.

Valuable. 

Todd: Well, 

Craig: I just really appreciate it. 

Todd: I mean, and this was a time when every frame counted because every frame is costing you money. 

Craig: Yeah. It’s expensive, 

Todd: right? It’s expensive to shoot on film, you know, multiple takes are gonna cost you. So yeah, to put the artistry into it, when you’re a low budget production takes a certain amount of balls and it’s a strong risk, you know, that you’re taking to set up these shots that you might have to do a few more times to get it right.

Because you’re a little more ambitious. No, I, I know exactly what you’re saying and we’re not trying to make this sound like, like Spielberg here, but it just does stand out among other ones that are similarly artistically shot that there was a lot of garbage that we’ve done from this era as well that was clearly just slapped.

Shot. 

Craig: Well, and there’s something to be learned from those things too. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: But, 

Todd: but it’s different. 

Craig: Yeah. It’s different. I, I, I felt like this had a lot to offer, so I, I, I initially thought that he killed that model, Rita, but he doesn’t. Instead he [00:38:00] ties her up to the bed in his apartment, which is. Different than what he’s done before.

And he’s talking to her and he says, I knew you’d come back. I found you and now you’re mine. And in my notes, I just have, he’s a nutcase.

He is cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. And then he, then he says, I never wanted to hurt you, but there were so many men. I think all of this. His obsession with women in general is mommy issues. Yeah. It’s all mommy issues. Yep. Who knows what his mother’s situation was, but she turned tricks, I guess. Mm-hmm. To get by and he’s tormented.

By that and his relationship with his mother 

Todd: and her punishment of him. And I think this is when it gets the most explicitly told to us, right? Like he says something about, he’s kind of alluding [00:39:00] to her, locking him in the closet. Oh, all these things. And that then kind of makes sense when you go back to a very puzzling earlier shot in the movie where he had lifted his shirt and we saw these scars on his chest, I thought, okay.

Okay. So she was maybe physically abusive to him as well. You know, so we got a very typical, you know, Norman Bates type situation here. 

Craig: Right, right. Yeah. 

Todd: For this movie. But we are forced to puzzle it together, and I liked that aspect of the movie. I liked that it was a little ambiguous, but we’re getting a general sense of where it’s going and as more pieces of it come out, it starts to coalesce a little bit.

Yeah. And then, and then he ends up killing her as well 

Craig: and scalps her and stabs her in the heart and says, oh, mommy and cries. And then there’s like a weird three or four minute scene where he puts on a funny looking ball cap with like wings on it and plays with toys, like he’s a little boy. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: So, so strange.

Todd: That was a little [00:40:00] bit much I thought, but like a little too on the nose, but. Either way. Yeah, you’re right. This guy’s tormented. We got that. 

Craig: I’ve said this before about other movies. I can’t think of any off the top of my head, but this felt like a play to me. Like this felt like something that I would see on stage.

Oh, and I can’t explain why. I guess it’s just because it’s one person acting. 

Todd: In a, in a small, in a, in a limited space 

Craig: for, for us. Yeah. Yeah. Like it’s, yeah, yeah, yeah. It, it doesn’t really advance the plot or anything. It’s more just kind of char character development isn’t what I’m going for, but. I don’t know, just kind of an, an intimate look into an individual person.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: That feels more theatrical than cinematic. 

Todd: Yes. Yeah. 

Craig: But anyway, whatever. So then he goes out with the photographer again, like they’re gonna go on a date. She seems to be super into him, by the way. Yeah. So he should calm down and not kill her. [00:41:00] But then he’s like, uh, can we stop by and visit my mom? I guess it’s, it’s her.

Birthday or something. I don’t know. I might be making that up. Yeah, it’s 

Todd: Christmas time. He says, every time around Christmas I visit, I put a Reath on her grave or something, and that was her birthday. 

Craig: She, and she’s like, sure, no problem. Like 

Todd: so this is a Christmas movie? 

Craig: It is a Christmas movie. I thought the same thing too.

It really is. So they visit his mother’s grave and he. Weeps. And she’s like, uh, calm down.

And then he says something about Rita. Now Rita is her friend, the model who is missing now, and they know that she’s missing. And he says something about her, I don’t remember what he says. And she’s like, what are you talking about? And he’s like, uh, Rita. And so she gets freaked out and he tries to strangle her, but she runs away and he chases her through the cemetery and at some point she hits him [00:42:00] with a shovel.

Yeah. 

Todd: On the shoulder, 

Craig: and then he’s back at his mom’s grave somehow and he calls out to her and she answers him. 

Todd: Yeah, he’s really well. He is basically hallucinating. This 

Craig: is wild. 

Todd: Yeah, I guess. I, well, sure. Because of, because 

Craig: the next moment this, this was an, it was an odd twist in this movie because you hear the mother’s voice say something like, mother has to punish you, and he says, please don’t lock me in the closet.

And then he rocks back and forth, like weeping at her grave and her rotting corpse comes out of the grave and grabs him. I don’t have a problem with this in general and in theory. But it was such. Kind of an abrupt change. 

Todd: Hmm. 

Craig: I, I, I don’t know. I, I, I, I think that what we are meant to believe is that he’s [00:43:00] crazy and that this isn’t really happening.

He’s just imagining it. 

Todd: Yes. 

Craig: But it, it just, it just felt like a, a, a. Extreme and unexpected twist in this movie. Like I wasn’t expecting Night of the Living Dead, 

Todd: right 

Craig: at this point in this movie. 

Todd: I mean, I think it’s a shock, but then once you know, the camera cuts back to a, a medium shot of him at the grave and you see that he’s just cowering there, right?

Right. And it’s immediately obvious that it was his, his hallucination. I thought it, I thought it worked quite well. I thought it was an escalation of his mental state. 

Craig: Yeah, that’s fair. 

Todd: But you’re right. I mean, it’s true that it comes outta nowhere for a moment, and I think that’s effective. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: Like what, whoa, what?

What’s going on here? Oh yeah. Okay. It’s, he’s hallucinating. That makes sense. It was well done too. You know, like so much of this is actually really well done. We haven’t even talked about the special effects by Tom Sini. Tom Snis got a part in this. He did all the effects. I thought the kills in this were great because [00:44:00] they felt 

Craig: they looked fantastic, 

Todd: they looked great, and they did not look so sensational.

They really, they were uncomfortable when he, 

Craig: mm-hmm. 

Todd: I can’t remember who it is. I think it’s the model eventually where he stabs her slowly through the back with a bayonet. I was. Disturbed by that, you know? Mm-hmm. This is like a way a person would actually die. It was bothersome to me. And again, when you talk about Notorious, this movie has one of, I think the more notorious kill scenes.

Mm-hmm. In horror where even Savini said, maybe I went a little too far with this. And that is his own character’s death where he’s parked with this chick. Mm-hmm. And it’s one, it’s earlier in the movie, you know, it’s one of these mm-hmm. Just kind of randos that he kills. But he does seem to be targeting couples at this point.

Savini is parked with his girlfriend out some dark place and they start to make out in the back and she gets freaked out. ’cause uh, Zito pops up in the window at a, staring in at them and she’s like, I want to go, I want to go. And he is fine. He gets in the front seat and as he’s. Starts up the car and the headlights come on.

He sees [00:45:00] Frank standing in front. Mm-hmm. The car. And he, we had seen him earlier packing a shotgun. 

Craig: Yep. 

Todd: So he’s got a shotgun in his hand and he like, this happens in seconds. It’s so quick. It’s so jarring. It’s so abrupt. He leaps onto the hood of the car, like Spider-Man aims his gun at this guy in the driver’s seat who is sini and pulls the trigger and blows his head off.

Into a million pieces. We see it. Mm-hmm. In full gory detail. In slow motion. Wow. Impressive. 

Craig: It looks great. It looks so good. Yeah. Yeah. 

Todd: It’s shocking 

Craig: and it’s gross. Disgusting. I think it’s funny. I think it’s funny that he said that he felt like he had gone too. Far. No, that that was perfect. Yeah, like it looked so good.

It looked so good. You should be super proud of that. 

Todd: Uhhuh. 

Craig: It was amazing. 

Todd: It was great. I, I read that, you know, this was an old model he had of his head, so Savini actually ended up being the guy to pull the trigger as well. He was dressed up in a [00:46:00] wig and costume and all that to do it because again, they were shooting this gorilla style.

They only had one take to get this right, 

Craig: because they didn’t have permits. Yeah, to shoot there. 

Todd: Yeah. And they’re afraid the cops would come by anytime. I mean, he shot a live round at a dummy in the car, so as soon as he shot it, they tossed the shotgun into a trunk and like hightailed it out of there.

But he said he took an old model of his head from another production and stuffed it with, you know, blood and, and leftover food. I mean. Ugh. Like I think of Sini as this artist, you know, like, like he takes his time and his care with his stuff. But I just think it’s also funny that he’s like, yeah, all right, well, half eaten hamburger there.

All right, we’ll check that in. You got that chicken leg that you were gnawing on earlier. Charlie, let’s throw that in my head too. 

Craig: He’s such a cool guy. He’s just such a cool guy. He really is. Like what I, what I wouldn’t give to. Have a few beers with that guy. Right? Like the stories that he could tell.

He’s an actor and he’s a fine actor. Yes, and he’s a stunt man and he’s a special effects [00:47:00] guy. Like that is talent. He is a talented guy and deserves all of the accolades. He’s amazing. 

Todd: In a movie that doesn’t have too much humor in it. A lot of horror I like because it’s kind of tongue in cheek at its core, but this movie is one of those that’s a little bit of a tougher watch because it doesn’t feel like it’s got a lot of humor in it.

I, I thought it was quite funny that this girl’s face gets splattered with half 

Craig: this guy’s blood and that 

Todd: she’s 

Craig: got her run 

Todd: screaming. She might be the one that gets stabbed by the bayonet. I don’t remember, but oh my God, that was, I 

Craig: don’t remember. 

Todd: That was kind of funny. In a gruesome way, 

Craig: after he has that thing in the cemetery, he just goes home.

I don’t fully understand what happens because it appears that he has a wound on his. Abdomen, and I’m not sure how he got that. 

Todd: Mm. 

Craig: But he’s in his apartment and he is got a bunch of mannequins at this point. And the way that they’re shot is beautiful. Just [00:48:00] really interesting angles that make them look very, it looks great.

And, and eventually the mannequins. Come alive and I don’t know what kind of camera work or special effects work were going on here, but the way that they were shot, it almost looked like they might have been alive or real actresses even before they were. 

Todd: Mm. 

Craig: And, and then they do come alive and they all surround him on his bed and chop him up.

And rip his head off God, which is another great, great effect. 

Todd: Very dawn of the dead. 

Craig: I mean, you can, you can tell when it goes from being the actual actor to a mockup of his head, you can tell, but it still. Looks really great, and I think that the torso of that body was, uh, Mrs. Vor, he’s torso from Friday the 13th with Tom, which Tom Sini also did.

Todd: Ah-huh. Something like 

Craig: that. At least that’s [00:49:00] rumored. I don’t know if it’s true or not, but, so the, the, the mannequins tear him up, his head off, chop him up, and then the next morning the cops show up at his apartment. And he’s dead on the bed, but he’s not all torn up. I think that we’re meant to believe that he died from, I know that that girl, the, the photographer girl hit him with the shovel.

Todd: Well, 

Craig: but he, 

Todd: I think you were watching this on too small of a screen because 

Craig: Okay. 

Todd: Because he’s laying in bed, but he has. A sword or bayonet or something in his hand. Stabbed. It’s like he stabbed himself in the gut. 

Craig: Oh, yeah. 

Todd: It’s sitting 

Craig: there. I, I couldn’t figure out where that abdomen wound came from.

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: But anyway, he’s presumably dead. Of course, the mannequins are all in their original positions. I mean, it’s still odd, but it doesn’t appear that they’ve attacked him, uh, presumably. Yeah. It’s all in his pre head, presumably. That was in his mind. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and the cops come in and look at him for two seconds and they’re like, well, I guess he’s dead.

And then they walk out. Walk out. [00:50:00] 

Todd: Two actors, they were hoping to not have to pay with no lines. Right. 

Craig: Right. 

Todd: So 

Craig: funny. And, and then he, you know, close, close up on his face and he opens on his eyes and then we get the title again, and then that’s the end. So whether or not he’s actually dead is, 

Todd: yeah, 

Craig: unclear.

Todd: It’s typical horror movie ending. 

Craig: Yeah. I mean, it was fine. 

Todd: Yeah. I enjoyed. Again, this was the second time I’d seen it as well. I was prepared for a slog. I was pleasantly surprised at how, I think I was just into it at the time, you know? We did Martin also. 

Craig: Yeah, 

Todd: and this reminded me of that too. It’s just another one of those characters.

It’s 

Craig: a character study. 

Todd: Yeah. And if you’re in the mood for that, I think you’re gonna like this movie. I don’t think it, I can see where you. Would get bored if you’re not in the mood for it. But if you are in the mood for something like this, it moves. It’s interesting. It’s well shot. It’s got that grittiness [00:51:00] that makes it feel real.

Yeah. And and different from what we’re often seeing. 

Craig: Yes. 

Todd: And it’s an authentic grittiness. It’s like a shot on location grittiness as opposed to a Yeah. Mm-hmm. We decked out a set. To look, look like, saw style. 

Craig: It’s a, yeah, it’s a time. Yeah, it’s a time capsule. Really? 

Todd: Mm-hmm. And that’s nice. And even though, you know, we’ve got amateur-ish actors, I mean, like I said, there’s a few porn actors, I gotta call out one of my faves, Sharon Mitchell.

She is one of the nurses who. Walks away and gets into a car. I’m a fan of her work, but she’s unmistakable with her rather large nose and stuff. 

Craig: Which one was she? Was she, was she the brunette who walked away 

Todd: or was 

Craig: she 

Todd: the Yeah, she’s the brunette who walked away. Okay. I was really sad to see, she didn’t actually have a scene, much of a scene in this, but this was one of her very first, and she didn’t do many like what, quote unquote legit roles.

Craig: Legit, 

Todd: yeah. Yeah. But this was her first appearance, I think, in a movie that was not pornographic. So. That was nice to see her in that. 

Craig: I love that [00:52:00] too. I, I, I love to see when, I don’t know, I’m sure that there are people out there whose ambition is pornography. 

Todd: Oh, for sure. 

Craig: But I, I think is, I, I think especially God and anybody can be a porn star today.

You know, you set up an OnlyFans and look at you. 

Todd: Oh, and it’s not looked down upon as much as it used to be, so 

Craig: No, no, but I, I, I think that there were, and maybe I’m mistaken, maybe this is just my perception, but it seems like in this era, there were some people who were interested in doing legitimate work, but they took the work that was available and, and 

Todd: yeah, 

Craig: sometimes that was pornography.

And I, I like when, again, she’s on screen for maybe a minute. Maybe, 

Todd: yeah. 

Craig: But she stood out to me too. 

Todd: Yeah, she’s pretty good. 

Craig: I liked her. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. I liked her. She had a really natural affect about her and I would’ve liked to have seen more. The only other thing that I [00:53:00] wanted to say before I forgot, and I meant to say it when I was talking about the ending, but I was really shocked to read that, um.

The guy who plays Frank Zito, whose name we’ve, Joe Spinel was a hemophiliac. 

Todd: Right? 

Craig: And based on what I read, again, I, I, I can’t verify this, but based on what I read, he cut himself and bled to death in his own bed, 

Todd: right? 

Craig: Kind. You know, a shocking parallel with this movie, I guess. 

Todd: I know. I was shocked to hear that too.

I mean, imagine being a hemophiliac and having to work in this, in this industry where Oh my gosh. Where you’ve got, you know, 

Craig: risky. Yeah. 

Todd: Especially this, I mean, he’s around so much fake blood. I dunno, maybe fake blood has a different. I don’t know. I would think that would be a bit triggering, but, uh, clearly a, an actor who’s serious about his craft.

Right? 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: Like I said, I enjoyed this movie. I would recommend it if you’re into this sort of thing, it’s, I’m not gonna go suggest my mom go [00:54:00] see it, but 

Craig: No, but I agree with you. Yeah. I, I, I don’t know that I would necessarily say that I enjoyed it, but I’m glad to have seen it because. I appreciate so much about it and, and if you’re a fan of horror, if you’re a, you know, just if you’re interested in filmmaking, and I think it’s a hundred percent worth the watch for sure.

Todd: Absolutely. Well, I’m glad that we did this movie right now. Me Too, that finally, finally got to it. And thank you guys for listening to us, for bringing us into a whole new year. We got such a lineup of old and new movies that we’re gonna be doing this year, obviously, as we always do. You can find us online@chainsawhorror.com.

You can find our Patreon at patreon.com/chainsaw podcast That. Five bucks a month gives you extra access to us, gives you access to Mini sos. We also post our complete unedited phone calls, which gives us a you a little bit more detail that we cut out of the normal podcast for time and also personal stuff that we chat [00:55:00] about before and after.

If you’re interested in that, we’ve got a book club going on. Like gangbusters behind the scenes. Again, five bucks a month gives you access to all of that. And our undying gratitude. Obviously, we love all of our fans, whether you’re paying us or not, and you could still have access to us. We’re on Facebook, we’re on Instagram.

Uh, just leave us a message there. We love to hear from you, and if you enjoyed what you heard, leave us a review on your favorite podcasting platform. That’s one of the best things you can do for us help is spread the word out there. Until next time, I’m Todd. 

Craig: And I’m Craig 

Todd: with two guys and a chainsaw.