The Ring (2002)

Episode 68, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys with a chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Today’s movie was a request from Jordan. Jordan, thank you so much for requesting The Ring. This is the, 2002, I believe, American remake of the Japanese film Ringu. Although, it’s actually been in many different forms, besides the Japanese film that came out in 1998 or 1999. There have been, countless other Japanese versions.   I actually have a bit of a history with this movie, Craig, because, I was living in Japan, in 2,001, and people were still talking about this movie, and when I was in the video store looking for things to rent, yes, we did have a VHS player back then. The Ring was there along with, like, The Ring part 2, something called Rahsaan, Ring 0. They had made a lot of different sequels and prequels, and also, like, a television miniseries type version of it, where a girl wanders around topless most of the time. It’s it’s Japan, and they milked this for all it was worth. It was a huge hit all around Asia, and it was based on a novel by an actor, actually, named Koji Suzuki. So I imagine mister Koji Suzuki is sitting real pretty right now 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  With all the money he’s getting from this, because that then we also had some multiple sequels, I think, to this one in the United States as well. Am I right? 

Craig:  Well, I think, there was The Ring 2, and then we have in theaters right now Rings, which is a return to the franchise. I think it’s just those 2 here in the States. 

Todd:  Okay. Wasn’t there one Sadako versus, the person from The Grudge? 

Craig:  Yeah. I think that was in Japan, but that is recent too. I mean, that’s just been within the last few months that that’s come out 

Todd:  as well. Okay. So here they are about, like, man, it’s been almost 20 years, not so much from the US side. I guess it’s only been about 13 years since we’ve last seen a Ring movie, And then they’re rebooting it. It’s so weird. It it’s it’s kind of a thin story in a way. It’s hard to imagine rebooting it, especially because the old one deals so much with old technology, you know, videotapes and whatnot. It’d be interesting to see how they’ve updated it.   Have you seen the new one that’s in the theaters? 

Craig:  I haven’t seen the new one. I’ve read about it a little bit, and I think that that is kind of what they were going for was, trying to expand it into, new technology. I I read a review of it today, and the review was generally positive, and they felt like it did go in some new directions. This particular reviewer felt like it took them a little bit too long to get there, that they were relying a little bit too much kind of on, you know, just the original stuff. But, he this reviewer said that, there is a good payoff in the end that does utilize some new things and, kind of sets it up for potential sequels to move forward in different directions. So I don’t know. I I doubt very much that we’ve seen the end of it. I mean, it’s been a really successful franchise.   This movie did very, very well in theaters. They opened it, early in October to a limited release, and they wanted to just kinda see how it was gonna do, in that limited release. It did very well, and then so they expanded it, moving in closer to Halloween. And it ended up, at the time, being the most successful horror remake of all time. I don’t know if it still holds that title, but it did very well. And and, of course, they moved forward with a sequel immediately. The sequel, I think, also performed very well. It wasn’t received very well well critically, but, yeah, the the franchise has been a big success. 

Todd:  Have you seen the sequel? 

Craig:  I have, but you know what? I don’t remember anything about it. You know, I read reviews and things of it Todd prep preparing for this, and most of the fan reviews and and things that I read were were generally pretty negative. It it didn’t satisfy the public very well as a follow-up. I mean, they ate it up. They paid their money to go see it, but, I think it left people disappointed, which is probably why we’re only now getting a return to it. 

Todd:  I I I’d be curious to know if you saw the Japanese original either, or at least the the big theatrical one that everyone kinda points Todd. Ringu. 

Craig:  Yeah. No. I I haven’t, and I really know very little about it. You know, again, you know, in prepping for this, I was reading different things, and kinda the general consensus that I saw was that the remake was actually somewhat of an improvement. I guess that this film, The Ring, follows the plot and most of the plot details from the original pretty closely, but maybe adds in a few elements that make this even better. Now, of course, I’m reading American reviews. If I were reading Japanese reviews, it might be a different story, but that’s kind of what I’ve heard. Have you seen the original? 

Todd:  Yeah. I have. You know, back that would be back in 2001. I actually got a friend of mine and then one of my one of my high school students over to help translate for us. So we just popped in the videotape, and she sat there between us and was kinda telling us what we needed to know as it was going on. My whole assessment of the original was that it was creepy and then boring for a long time and then creepy again. With a killer ending. And and, honestly, that that’s how one this movie could have turned out, but I think because they added in a lot of smaller elements you’re right.   It does follow the plot, pretty closely, but there are elements of that plot and lots of little ties into the video that they kinda stick in, some a lot more flashback that they stick in, and a lot more little scares kind of along the way that, I think this one is a little bit superior in that. Yeah. And I and, you know, the ending of the original was one of the scariest things I’d seen, in a long time up until that point. We’ve we’ve since superseded that, but I think the ending of this film is also very effective. And I thought, you know, man, they have a they have a quite a baseline standard to hold up to here, when they were doing the American remake of getting an ending that’s as creepy and as scary as the Japanese one, which was done on a pretty low rent way, but very effective. But they sure did. I mean, this the ending of this one, I know we’re gonna get to it, is is great. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you talked about how the original maybe got a little bit boring. I was actually a little bit worried going into this. You know, I think, because I did see it when it came out cause there was a lot of hype, you know, there was a lot of marketing for the movie and, you know, they kinda tried to keep it shrouded in mystery. You know, there was a lot of, showing, elements of the cursed tape which we’ll get Todd here in a second, but not really providing a lot of context. And so it was really just a lot of spooky imagery. And then of course as it got closer, as it opened and they were continuing to advertise, they were showing more parts of the movie.   And I remember going in, then being very excited about it, but feeling a little bit disappointed in the end because I felt like maybe in the marketing they had given a little bit too much away. Mhmm. I I felt like maybe I had seen a little bit too much of the good stuff. And so, there wasn’t as much, surprise, the element of surprise as I would have liked. Now the ending, I did enjoy. And so in going back to this, to talk about it tonight, I looked at the run time of an of an hour and 55 minutes, and I thought, oh man, that can be really long for a horror movie. But, I didn’t think that it was too long. I thought that the pacing was actually really very strong.   I mean, it moves. There there may be some lulls where there’s there’s a lot of detective work going on in this movie. Yes. Yes. And, sometimes, you know, we would get some pretty long sequences of detective work, but in those sequences, we were constantly being fed information. We were so I I didn’t think it was too long. I thought the pacing was actually one of the strengths of the movie, and I think the storytelling is really good here. As I was watching it this time, I was watching it this 

Todd:  time, and I was watching it this time, and I was watching it this time, and I was watching it this time, and I 

Craig:  was watching it this time, and I was watching it and I think the storytelling is really good here. As I was watching it this time around, I think that I realized that it’s really a pretty traditional ghost story, except for the introduction of the, cursed tape element, which we hadn’t really seen anything quite like that. I mean, we’ve seen cursed objects and cursed houses and those types of things, but, the use of the technology, and and the the spirit using the technology as a medium to communicate with and eventually kind of enter into, the real world. That was unique. Beyond that, it’s it’s a fairly standard, ghost story where you’ve got kind of a a vengeful spirit, and, those who are affected by it kind of have to figure out, you know, the backstory of what’s going on in order to try to figure out how they can, rectify whatever needs to be rectified and and move forward. But that being said, it didn’t feel stale. It didn’t feel like something that I’d seen before. I thought that it was a fresh twist on a fairly conventional story, and I appreciate that. 

Todd:  Yeah. I completely agree. It does have its roots in urban legend, and that’s kind of interesting. Like you said, we’ve seen the cursed object thing before, but I think what makes this creepy is the same sort of thing that makes oh, we’re even seeing It Follows, for example, right now. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  Where with a cursed object, you have the cursed object and, it affects you in some way. Generally speaking, if you get rid of the cursed object or pass it along to somebody else, then you’re home free. Whereas in this case, the idea that you could stumble upon a videotape and watch it, and now you’re doomed. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  No real fault or knowledge of your own. It’s not like the videotape itself said don’t watch. You know, it it’s it’s really a pretty freaky kind of idea, much like, I thought It Follows, the movie, was really had a really good concept at least, you know, where you can have sex with someone and then boom, you’re doomed. At least in that case, there was a way to kinda pass it on to somebody else, but then it could always come back to you. So Right. In this case, you’re just gonna die, you know, if you watch this tape. And Right. And that’s what these 2 girls at the beginning of this movie, begin, talking about.   And I actually thought it was a great intro too because it’s just I mean, we just jump right into that story. We have Beckett and Katie who are having some kind of sleepover. It looks at at at Katie’s house. They’re like high school age girls, and they’re just chatting, as they’re watching TV, which is also a cool thing. And you get that that green glow of the TV on their face as they’re talking. Becca just starts talking about this story that she’d heard about a videotape. 

Clip:  You start to play it, and it’s like somebody’s nightmare. Then suddenly, this woman comes on, smiling at you, right? Seeing you through the screen. And as soon as it’s over, your phone rings. Someone knows you’ve watched it. And what they say is, you will die in 7 days. And exactly 7 days later Who told you that? Somebody from Rivera. Who told you? What’s your problem? 

Craig:  I’ve watched it. 

Clip:  It’s a story, Katie. No. Me and Josh, we saw it last weekend. 

Todd:  And it’s really neat the way that scene plays out because at first you’re like, oh, come on. You know, it’s kind of a silly deal that she’s telling her the story. She happened to watch the tape, but then Katie tries to play it off. She kind of like, like she’s joking and falls into her arms, and Becca thinks she’s joking until the phone rings. And then there’s a look on Katie’s face that totally betray us, and Becca’s like, oh my gosh. You you that actually happened. And Katie never really says, yes, it did. It was a nice neat way of doing that kind of an introduction, jumping right into the story, and it just read rode the line of not being too goofy. 

Craig:  Yeah. Oh, I agree. And especially, you know, in the first time seeing the movie. I mean, this scene there are a couple of iconic scenes in this movie, and this is one of them. I mean, this scene has been spoofed in in several movies, that I’ve seen. I had actually forgotten that it was from this movie. Like, I remembered all the spoofs, but I had forgotten that it came from this movie. And it is.   And it’s nice suspense. You know, the phone rings, and they had talked about how that was kind of one of the elements of what happens. And so, you know, they go to answer the phone, and and I think Becca actually answers the phone, and, she just sits there quietly. We can’t hear who’s on the other side, and she just kind of ominously hands it to Katie. And then Katie says, Oh, hi mom. And it’s just her mom. But then sort of kinda weird things start happening around the house, like doors are opening, the TV’s coming on, by itself, and and Katie is obviously scared. When she goes back upstairs, she’s calling for Becca and Becca’s not responding.   She goes back upstairs and she sees water on the floor. And she opens, the door to her bedroom and I think we maybe hear her scream, but it just cuts to like some really, really quick flashes, almost subliminal flashes. We can’t see, what’s going on, and then it it just cuts away and we cut to, some new characters. We’re in a school and we see a little boy, his name is Aiden. He’s played by, a child actor named, David Dorfman, who I recognized. He’s a really creepy looking kid. Just in general. I had to look him up.   I I the thing that I recognized him from, he was in, the remake of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. He had a small role in that, Creepy in that too. But he’s sitting there in his classroom and his teacher’s at the front of the desk and it’s just him and we hear a woman walking down the hall, and it turns out to be, Rachel, played by Naomi Watts, who I think this was one of her big breaks. I think she had done some things before this, but, this was one of her first big films. I know that they originally approached, Jennifer Connelly with this, and she turned it down. Then they went to Jennifer Love Hewitt and Gwyneth Paltrow and Kate Beckinsale, and they all turned it down. And eventually, it went to Naomi Watts, and this was kind of her breakout role. She’s coming to pick up, Aidan from school, and and she’s late.   And the teacher is concerned, about Aidan because Aidan has recently lost his cousin, who we soon find out is Katie, the girl from the opening scene, and he doesn’t seem to be taking it well. He’s drawing pictures of Katie, buried in the ground and Rachel, she kind of comes across as kind of defensive and standoffish. She doesn’t come across as particularly likable, especially in this first scene. But she tells the teacher, you know, of course, this, you know, he lost his cousin who he usually spent 2 or 3 days with. You know, it was a a week. It was his best friend, and it’s only been 3 days. And, the teacher says, so you’re saying that she died 3 days ago? And, Rachel says, yeah. And the teacher says, well, he drew these last week.   So we already know something’s going on, and when Rachel takes Aiden home, as she’s tucking him in, they’re talking about things and she says, would you like me to read a story? And he says, no, I’m kinda tired. And and then as she’s walking away, he says, we don’t have enough time. And she says, I know, I work a lot, we don’t have time together. I’m going to try to work on that. And he says, No, that’s not what I mean. I mean, we don’t have enough time to live. And she says, You’ve got plenty of time to live. And he says, Well, do you know when I’m gonna die? And she says, no we don’t know when we’re gonna die.   And he says, well Katie did, she told me. She knew something was going to happen. So already we’re putting together that there’s the story behind this tape, this urban legend that Becca was talking about. It appears that, there’s there’s something to it. And when Rachel and Aiden attend the funeral, Rachel’s sister who is Katie’s mother is distraught and, she asks of Rachel, she says, I just can’t imagine what could have happened. You know, a teenager’s heart does not just stop. I’ve talked to all these doctors, nobody can explain what happened and I just don’t know how I’m going to find out. And Rachel says something comforting, but the sister says to her, But you can find out, right? Your job is to ask questions.   Rachel is a reporter. I guess her sister kind of tasks Rachel, with investigating what’s going on and really that’s what happens. I mean, right away, even at the funeral, Rachel does start asking questions, and right away, she starts getting leads. 

Todd:  Yeah. That she goes outside where there’s some girls and a guy talking, and they’re teenagers, and they’re chatting about Katie and the death, And she learns that Katie had a boyfriend, Josh, who also died, that very night. And, at the same time, apparently, at 10 o’clock, she finds out later. And and so yeah. He and and that was apparently a suicide. We we through her investigation, she finds that he jumped off of a really, really high ledge of a building. Again, that was at 10 o’clock. And then, you know, later on, we have, detective scenes where she’s going through, and she discovers that, the other kids that they were with, at the time when they watched this tape are also died in a car accident, sure enough, the same time at 10 o’clock.   So, yeah, what they’ve revealed is that Katie and these kids, along with her boyfriend Josh, were at a cabin, and, apparently, their mother didn’t know about it. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  Didn’t even know about the boyfriend too. So that’s how all this, kind of was under wraps and and gives her some things to, to find out. 

Craig:  What I found to be a little bit on the cheesy side was how easily all these pieces fall into place. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  I mean, there’s she she never really runs into any kind of roadblock. There there’s at one point in the movie where they kind of end up back where they had started. And in fact, she even says, we’re I’m back where I started. I don’t know where to go from here, but then there’s another device that very quickly leads them right on to the next path. That was the only thing. We talk about, realism in movies all the time. Would these things fall into place so easily? Surely not. But for storytelling sake, I’m glad that they do because it it keeps the pace moving and, it keeps it from lagging, and I appreciate that.   One of the things, you know, I think that after she talks to the teenagers, she goes up to get Aiden, who is in Katie’s room, and she’s kinda snooping through Katie’s stuff a little bit, and I feel like she finds a tag. Our younger listeners probably won’t even know what this is either, but, when we used to have film in cameras and we used to take that film to be developed, they would give you a tag like like a dry cleaner slip that you would turn back in to collect your pictures. And so she finds one of those in Katie’s room and she goes and, gets the the photographs and you know, it’s very typical teenage stuff. It’s of them, you know, she sees the sign, of the Shelter Mountain Inn that they’re going to and then it’s, you know, there’s, it’s a sequence of them, photographs of them walking into the cabin and and there’s even a picture of them sitting in front of the TV and then after the picture with the TV in it, there’s distortion in all of their faces. It’s just their faces, but their faces, are distorted. And she finds that odd, and so that’s what leads her, I think, to go to check out the Shelter Mountain Inn. Again, she just the the clues just keep piling up. 

Todd:  Yeah, they do. She goes to this inn. There’s an innkeeper there, a young guy, who, just nonchalantly says, yeah, I recognize these people. Yes, they were here. There are some complaints about them. They were a little rowdy, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. But, she turns around and sees that there is a shelf, and again, very conveniently, she sees a shelf of VHS tapes. 

Clip:  Reception’s never good here. That’s why we bought tape players for videos.   Quite a selection.   Mostly their hand me downs left by other guests. 

Todd:  And, looking at this tape rack, she can instantly spot and just intuit which tape is the one because it’s the only one not in a tape sleeve. 

Craig:  Right. Right. 

Todd:  Yeah. You know, it’s 

Craig:  all it’s all kinda hokey. I mean It it is hokey. It’s funny though because that’s a real thing. 

Todd:  My dad 

Craig:  used to take my dad used to take me fishing in Minnesota every summer, up until I think I, you know, was like a freshman in college. We went every summer and this was not uncommon at all for there not to be any kind of satellite or cable or anything. There would just be 1 rinky old TV with the VHS and you could go to the office and borrow, movies to watch. So that was, I smiled at that because it was kind of nostalgic for me. I imagine that some, especially contemporary viewers, viewers today would think, what? That would never happen. No, folks. That was a real thing. 

Todd:  Oh, yeah. It it totally was. No. I remember it too. In fact, you even even in, like, a a normal, like, a Holiday Inn or a place like that, sometimes instead of, like, instead of the movies you can rent through the television, you would have to go downstairs and, like, rent a tape and bring it back up. It was it was Right. It was totally a thing. But what’s hokey about it is that, oh, here’s the tape.   It’s right there on the shelf. It’s so obvious, but it’s not obvious. But she just knows Right. This is the one because it’s the one that’s not in the sleeve, and it’s unmarked. And so she grabs it, and she takes it back to the room, and she watches the tape. And the tape itself is pretty cool, and they this is where they took some liberties a little bit with the Japanese version, although, in spirit, it’s very similar. She sees a number of images on the tape. There’s a a tall ladder and the tall ladder falling and a close-up on what looks to be an eye, but it’s clearly like an animal eye or something.   There’s Mhmm. An image of a tree. There’s water lapping, across the ground. There’s something dead that seems to have washed up on a beach and, you know, there’s something in the distance there. There’s a fly buzzing around at one point that looks like it got on the camera as it was recording. There’s a woman who you can see through a mirror on the wall who seems to be looking at the person in the camera. The mirror moves to the other side of the wall, and you can see, like, what looks like a girl with her back to the camera. And just all of these images, flash by it.   And as, Noah, her boyfriend, who we’ll meet later, mentions it, it’s it’s like, it’s like a cheap, student art film. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  Right. That actually reminded me 

Craig:  a 9 inch nails music video or something. There you go. Yeah. 

Todd:  I I it actually reminded me of, Unciendo Andalou. It’s it’s and I might not even be saying that right, but that’s a Salvador Dali film. Have you heard of this movie or seen it? 

Craig:  No. I haven’t, but I know I’m familiar with Dali’s work. It’s all very surreal, and and the the video, the images are very surreal, so that makes sense. 

Todd:  Oh, it is. And even in in Dali’s film, what’s what it’s probably most famous for is an image of a of a an eye getting stabbed, basically. And, and that, you know, where you kinda just flick that creepy thing in there. And, again, it also kind of reminds you even of, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory when they’re going through the tunnel. And, there’s that Yeah. Video that’s playing behind them and it just has all these random creepy things and things that are might be even normal, but because in in the context and the way that they’re flash up so quickly at you, it just assaults your senses. It’s very convincing as a kind of tape that might have some mystical, you know, magical power about it, I think. 

Craig:  Yeah. I agree. 

Todd:  And what really separates this movie from the Japanese one is that all of these images on the tape are very deliberate in that later on in the film, as the investigation progresses, one of the things that keeps it interesting, and this is what the Japanese film lacked, which is why it was super boring during the investigation part, is that, all of the bits and elements in the tape, almost all of them get referenced at some point. Like, she will see the tree. Mhmm. She will see the ladder. 

Craig:  Yeah. And and from there, this is I I didn’t remember this. It it starts counting down the days. We move away from the cabin and we get, a title card that says Thursday, day 1. Noah is headed off to school and he runs into this guy in the street. And they just kinda pause and look at each other, which I thought was kinda odd. I and I couldn’t remember what was going on there. Oh, so true.   Noah’s played by an actor named, Martin Henderson. He’s in a lot of TV. He was in, Grey’s Anatomy. 

Todd:  It was, Aidan actually who was walking down the street and saw this guy who was Noah. He you’re right. It’s a weird scene. They stare at each other, and then they walk by, and you think that this is a stranger that he’s seeing. It it’s strange. In fact, even still, it’s strange. Apparently, Rachel has called him. And, so he is on his way to Rachel’s apartment, and he shows up there, and she tells him the story of the tape.   And later on, we intuit. And what’s really nice is, at at the times, they really spoon feed you things, and other times, they withhold information, and give it to you in a more natural way. And this is one of those circumstances where it’s slowly we learn that, oh, they have a previous relationship. And then much later we learn Aidan is actually their son. But at the time, we only know that he is maybe a photographer friend. And so she asked him for her for advice about this tape because he knows photography. She wants to know where it came from, and he wants to watch the tape and she’s like, oh, I don’t think that’s such a great idea. And he’s she’s like, you know, people died from this.   And he’s like, look, Rachel. Nobody died from watching a videotape. 

Craig:  And so Right. Well, and and the evidence that, you know, the evidence that she’s citing is that now that she’s watched it, she has, taken a bunch of pictures of herself. And, she has him take a picture of her and and I I guess it’s it it makes a sound like a a film camera, but I guess it’s a digital camera because he can see it right away. And her face is distorted in the same way that theirs the the kids was in those photographs. And so she is actually concerned that, something is going on here. And so when he wants to watch the tape, she doesn’t wanna let him. But like you said, he’s so skeptical, she finally just relents and lets him watch it. And we get to see, you know, him, watching it.   And after he does watch it, the phone rings, but they just don’t answer it. 

Todd:  I I gotta say, I mean, it it’s a little silly that this photographer would take some pictures of her, see that her face is distorted, and not find that more interesting. Like, he he then turn it around and take some pictures of himself or take some pictures of some other things. He doesn’t do a very good job in the skepticism of reassuring her, oh, it’s just a problem with the camera or something like that. I mean, she did call him over to help him because he has expertise in these matters. And he’s just 

Craig:  like True. 

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. But but it anyway, wasn’t this about a tape? You know? 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. 

Todd:  And and then, of course, it’s a clever device in the film that they don’t answer it. But, again, if he is here to reassure her and is skeptical, wants to show her that nothing’s a thing, wouldn’t he wouldn’t they answer the phone? So he could at least 

Craig:  know for sure? You would think so. 

Todd:  I mean Yeah. 

Craig:  You would think so. I wondered I I wondered about that and I wondered if maybe she just left that part out. Like, did he know about the phone call? I don’t know. I mean, she clearly does, and she’s clearly rattled when the phone rings. But it it seems like he’s not even aware of that element cause he just says something like, aren’t you gonna answer it? That’s cool. And she almost does. I mean, I I feel like she goes towards the phone, but eventually scared. And so he says, alright.   Fine. Make me a copy. I’ll look at it. I’ll try to figure out where it came from, you know, where how it was filmed, where it was filmed. I’ll I’ll see what I can do. So she does. I guess she utilizes, the equipment at her work, to make a copy of the tape. And as she’s making it, the equipment, is acting funny.   There’s something weird going on, like, the the lights are flashing on the the face of the recorder and things, and it’s just acting odd. 

Todd:  Right. Right. And and if you’ve been in video production, this is what’s called time code. As the tape goes, there’s a track that’s laid down that basically, frame by frame, you know, says this is frame 1, this is frame 2, this is frame 3, this is frame 4. And it’s used by the VCR in order to go back and forth through it or to skip, to different frames. I mean, my gosh. You gotta explain this technology to everybody now. 

Clip:  But it 

Todd:  was an important element of of tapes, and the the control track actually gets laid down at the edge of the tape. So if you think about a tape as a physical medium being pulled through, a machine, this is one of the real flaws of VHS technology is that this time Todd track is right on the edge. And so after a while, what part of the tape gets the most worn but the edges. And so the edges get, you know, kind of like wavy and, when that time code track is damaged, then the the VCR doesn’t know quite how to read those frames, and so you get spots in the video where the it might flicker or go weird on you. And that’s because that time Todd Mhmm. Section has been damaged. But it doesn’t happen in the way that she sees it. This is total Hollywood stuff.   It’s not like it’s going to start showing things that aren’t numbers on on the equipment. You know, it flickers through all these weird symbols or something like that, and it’s not gonna do that. It’s just actually, what’s gonna happen is it’s gonna freeze. It’s gonna freeze on the last number it could read. And as you advance through the tape, you’re just not gonna see any other numbers until maybe it picks up another one later. So, yeah, it’s a little bit of unnecessary but, you know, interesting movie trivia for you. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was curious about that because I knew you knew about that stuff. And, you know, all this stuff that we’ve just talked about from the time I said that Thursday flashes on the screen to where we are now, all of this takes like 2 or 3 minutes, which I thought was really funny because then it jumps immediately to Friday day 2. And I’m like, woo, these days are gonna go by fast. And they do. Yeah, they do. This week goes by really fast.   But on day 2, she takes the tape to Noah’s apartment, and he’s got all this video equipment Todd. And he’s talking about all this techie stuff about fingerprints and about how this couldn’t possibly be a copy because of the fingerprints, and, like, the fingerprints should be able to tell you what medium it was, filmed through and all that kind of stuff. Is that stuff real or is that Hollywood too? 

Todd:  Some of that’s kind of BS. I mean, as far as I know like, now we have metadata. Right? You take a picture, and there’s a little bit of information in that JPEG or whatever that tells you, it was taken by this camera. It was on this date. It was it’s this resolution, the aperture was set at this, you know, this was the exposure, and all that information gets recorded. It’s not true, with VHS tapes. To my knowledge, you’d have to do a considerable amount of detective work to be able to figure out a camcorder, a Sony camcorder recorded this, you know. And as far as, like, dates and things like that go, none of that was on the the control track.   All of that was on, like, if you wanted it. As you as you and I know, you know, you had to have, like, a date pop up on the screen and get burned in the image somewhere. Yeah. So no. Most of that was BS. But, again, the spirit of it is there. The time code track is weird. And, actually, if you make a copy of a tape, it lays down new time code track onto the copy.   So one way that you can kind of fix even though you degrade the tape, one way that you can try to at least help try to fix the tape and and make it a little more watchable is to make a copy. Because even though you’re gonna get the same flaws that you had in the original tape, it’s gonna be with new time Todd laid under it, which is fresh, which is gonna say this is frame 1, this is frame 2, this is frame 3. So it’s not gonna freak the VCR out, you know. And it’s also not going to, you know, if you have a fresher tape, so you’re not gonna degrade it much more, you know, as quickly. So that’s really the only thing there. 

Craig:  Well and and it’s really pretty insignificant, whether it’s real or not. In except for that, it establishes that there is something odd and possibly unexplainable or supernatural about this tape. Yeah. And while they’re looking at it, another thing that they do and again, you know, I remember the tracking problems on the VCR, especially on older tapes, and you would have to try to adjust the tracking to get it back on. And it very rarely worked, especially for those tapes you watched over and over again as a kid. Eventually, they would just crap out. But while they’re trying to adjust the tracking to fix it, she thinks that she sees something over in the I I like I guess it would be in a different Craig, and so they try to stretch it so that they can see what’s in that other frame or something. I again, I don’t really know how it works, but they they can’t get it to work.   But when she leaves the apartment, she takes the tape with her. He wants her to leave it so he can look at it, but she doesn’t want his assistant to see it, so she takes it with her. And, as she walks out of his building, there’s a big tall ladder almost identical Todd, very reminiscent of the ladder that she saw. So these images are popping up, in her life. On day 3, she, visits Becca, Katie’s friend from the opening scene in a mental hospital. Becca, 

Clip:  how did she die? Please, I need to know. And you will. She’ll show me. Who? Who will show me? 

Craig:  Not now. 4 days. I don’t know how Becca can intuit this, but it’s it’s it’s pretty ominous and it kind of just reaffirms for Rachel that her fears are substantiated. And then she goes and and I don’t know, borrows some equipment or or, you know, goes and uses an equipment at some facility, and she stretches the tracking again. And not only does she see a lighthouse, which she’s just barely able to, but she’s able to catch a screen grab of that and print it out, but also that fly that we had seen before that had been buzzing around, and that she had made notice of before. When she pauses the tape this time, it’s subtle, but she can still see the fly moving. The wings of the fly are still moving. And she reaches up as though she’s gonna try to pluck it off the screen, and that’s exactly what she does.   As though she has pulled it out of, the video out through the television, which of course becomes important later. And when that happens, she also gets a bloody nose. So there’s no question throughout that there is something supernatural going on. They don’t try to keep that from us. They don’t try to keep us guessing if it’s, if she’s just being paranoid or if there really is. It’s clear. It’s evident throughout that there is something strange. Then seeing that lighthouse, lead search of the library for more research. 

Todd:  Yeah. How classic is this? Right? Oh, by by the way, none of this, none of what we have been talking about, as I remember it, was really in the Japanese film. There wasn’t pulling a fly off the screen. There might have been a little bit of them with the tracking and things like that, but, again, all of these these super supernatural things, that are going on with the tape and not things that are just kind of related to investigating the tape. 

Craig:  Gotcha. 

Todd:  I don’t remember actually in the Japanese film, and I don’t remember them also seeing images from the tape as the thing goes on. So that’s part of what keeps this interesting. And you’re right. This is so classic, investigation. She goes to the library. She pulls out a stack of books. She pulls out a book called, America’s Lighthouses, an illustrated history. And it’s so cute and it’s quaint, but, you know, we actually used to have to do research like this.   So it’s Uh-huh. All that. 

Craig:  Oh, I remember. Yeah. 

Todd:  Yeah. If this this movie is really at that weird, point in time where the Internet was was a thing. The Internet was definitely a thing by here, but it wasn’t as sophisticated Todd as developed as it is now. And we hadn’t digitized all of the stuff, you know, historical things yet. 

Craig:  That’s right. 

Todd:  She’s going through the library and she finds sure enough, there’s a photograph interestingly enough from the same angle basically so she can recognize it easily. And 

Craig:  not only that, but it’s also on, like, the 3rd page. Like, she just barely opens the book and, oh, here it is. 

Todd:  It’s the lighthouse. But anyway, yeah, it’s Moesco Island, is the place that it leads her to next, and, she investigates Muesco Island. I think this time she goes to the Internet and she pulls up some some articles. And what we get here is basically some backstory of, her finding about about a woman named Anna Morgan, who was a breeder of horses. There was some unusual sickness that the ranch horses on this ranch at Moesco Island were getting. Mysterious deaths. Nobody could understand what was happening. Then her suicide comes into play.   And then as she’s doing this investigation, she finds herself absolutely scribbling. And when she looks down, she sees that she has scribbled over the face of one of her photos, these long it it almost looks like she’s adding hair to it really, right over the face, and that Mhmm. Mirrors and parallels what she has seen in, Katie’s notebook in her bedroom Right. That she had taken all these magazine pictures and was just doing this constant scribbling, as well as scribbling like big rings over everything. Right. Again, I don’t remember this kind of stuff in the Japanese one either. So, you know, really connecting this and making the supernatural influence in her, you know, and her investigations of people around her. I mean, we didn’t even mention it, but Aidan himself is having premonitions.   It’s it’s a different take on what Sadako what Samara, in this case, the ghost, can do, and and had just how much of a connection to the real world she has. 

Craig:  Right. Well, all this library research leads her to that island and to this woman named Anna Morgan, and there’s been something going strange going on, you know, with their horses and and with Anna herself. And, on day 5, Noah, sees his face distorted in a security camera at a gas station. So he, is on board with her. He believes her. She decides that she’s gonna go, to this island, but at some point she’s talking to her sister trying to arrange babysitting, and she chokes, and she coughs up what appears to be some hair and maybe like a, like a, a sensor, like a, oh, what are those called? They put them on your body at the hospital, like Oh, yeah. What are those called, Todd? You know what I’m talking about? Yeah. 

Clip:  I 

Craig:  know. Read, like, your heart rate and all those types of things. 

Todd:  Yeah. Some kind of heart monitor at the end of a of a wire, but, it sticks it sticks to your Todd, like, they put, like, 5 Right. 

Craig:  On your 

Todd:  chest or something. Then now I think they use, like, suction cups, but then now, yeah, it used to be sticky. I don’t know what they’re called, but, yeah, everybody should know what that is. And if you 

Craig:  don’t, you’re an idiot. So she so she coughs one of those up, and then, she wakes up from a nightmare, I think, and, she goes into the living room, and Aidan has watched the video. And she’s, of course, very upset about that, so she knows that she’s got to go into action. So on day 6, she hooks up with Noah, and the plan is she’s gonna go to the island, and Noah is gonna go to the mental hospital where Anna Morgan had been a patient, and they’re gonna do more investigation. Rachel does go to the island where she visits mister Morgan who is still living there apparently. 

Clip:  So what is it you’re riding, miss? Are horses in general or just those that go strange?   I read you had to put so many down.   Those put themselves down. They drowned.   How’d they get out?   They just broke through the fences and ran to the shore.   So they went Craig?   It would seem so. Yes. Or maybe they just sense things before we do. 

Craig:  But eventually, he figures out, what, she’s really there asking about, and he just tells her to leave it alone. Meanwhile, before she had left, Aidan had given her this drawing. And when she leaves, the Morgans house, she opens up his drawing and sees that this was a drawing of this house. And eventually she calls, Aidan and he tells her the little girl told me to draw it. She shows me things. She lives in a dark place now. Meanwhile, Noah is at the hospital. He finds Anna’s records.   He finds that she’s had a history of miscarriage and that’s what’s kinda led to her, mental deterioration. But he also finds that at some point, there was a daughter and that the daughter had also been, a patient at the hospital. So he tries to get her records, and eventually doesn’t. I mean, this this is all cutting back and forth. We cut back and forth between the island and the hospital, but eventually, he finds out that there’s video record of Samara, this daughter, and he goes to try to get it, but it’s not there. Somebody else has already taken it, and the last person to check it out was the dad, mister Morgan. Meanwhile, back on the island, Rachel visits one of the Morgan’s neighbors, and the neighbor explains that they tried to have kids over and over again, but they couldn’t. So finally, one winter, they went away, and they came back with a baby, and it was Samara.   But soon after that, Anna, the mother, started having visions that only occurred around Samara, and things just generally started going bad around the island. Not only were the horses, going crazy and dying and jumping off cliffs and things, but, it’s a fishing island. They couldn’t get in a good haul, you know, all kinds of things that seem to point that there is something going on, with Samara, and that things are are better now that she’s gone. So Rachel goes back to the Morgan house, and she finds Samara’s birth certificate, which says that she is the, natural daughter of these 2 people, mister and Mrs. Morgan, and she also, again, very conveniently, finds the tape sticking out, the tape of Samara’s, hospital video, and she puts it in and the doctor is questioning Samara. 

Clip:  I love my mommy.   Yes, you do. But you don’t want to hurt her anymore, now do you? You don’t wanna hurt anyone.   But I do, and I’m sorry. It won’t stop.   Well, that’s why you’re here. So that I can help you to make it stop.   He’s going to leave me here. Who? Daddy. 

Craig:  And then that’s all we get before mister Morgan hits her from behind, snatches away the videotape, and then just kind of really and, yeah, and the TV, which is interesting. And I didn’t really understand the purpose of hitting her either, because it didn’t seem like he had really any malice towards her, except for that she was kind of bringing this stuff up again. But he says to her, she’ll never Todd. And meanwhile, he’s walking into the, bathroom, and there’s water all over the floor. The tub is full. And he’s got all of this electrical equipment. I don’t know if it was plugged into a generator or what, but it’s like tons of this equipment all plugged in. And he ends up, electrocuting himself because he says she’ll never stop.   And again, conveniently, I don’t have any idea how he got there in, you know, 15 minutes, but Noah shows up. Rachel remembers that Aiden had said she doesn’t like the barn, horses keep her awake. And so they go check out the barn, and again, they find the ladder, and they crawl up the ladder, and they find that in the hayloft has been set up a child’s room. And presumably that it was set up up there with the ladder so that the ladder could be removed and she would be stuck up there. And so Rachel comes to the conclusion that Mr. Morgan was neglectful and abusive of Samara because Samara was causing the wife’s, deterioration and that’s why he wanted to keep her away. And so she feels a lot of sympathy for Samara And as they’re investigating the room, they see that the the wallpaper is kind of peeling, and they pull it back and burned into the wood or etched into the wood is this tree which she recognizes as the tree from Shelter Mountain, which then of course leads them back to Shelter Mountain. And then we kinda get into, some of the climactic moments. 

Todd:  Yeah. You’re right. It’s really convenient. And again, it’s sort of like a lighthouse. You see a tree. It could be any tree, but she somehow connects us with the tree at Shelter Mountain. I don’t know. I didn’t think it was that distinctive.   No. So they go back to the cabin, and they’re in the cabin, and they’re like, alright. Well, we’re back here. She says, we’ve come full circle. What do we do? He gets angry. Now why does he get angry again? Why does Noah get angry? 

Craig:  Because it’s day 7, and she thinks it’s too late. She thinks that they’ve run into a dead end, and he’s not willing to give up. And so he starts throwing things around, like maybe it’s in the v maybe the clue’s in the VCR, maybe it’s in the TV, maybe it’s in this, and he’s, like, tearing the place apart. And it’s it’s yeah. Which is is is silly, but it it works as a device because he throws down or knocks over this vase filled with decorative marbles, and are all the marbles roll to a low spot in the floor. And they pull back the rug, and there’s this big circle, and it looks mildewed. There’s obviously something under there. So they Shop.   Max 

Todd:  as what 

Craig:  to do. And, they chop up the floor and underneath it, they find this well that we have seen. It was in, the original video. And then we have a a final destination sequence in which this Rube Goldberg device, I don’t even remember exactly what happens, but they they take, there’s this big stone lid on the well, and they slide it off, and they’re looking down in there, and somehow, like the TV stand breaks or something and it rolls down the floor towards them and it pushes Rachel into the well. And she falls into this huge well. Like, they’ve already established how deep it is, but luckily, she’s perfectly fine. 

Todd:  Yeah. Right? And and, of course, like all movie wells at the bottom of the well, somehow it’s this like gigantic cavernous room. It’s not nearly as narrow as it started out at the Todd, apparently, because that’s how you dig wells, of course. No. It was it was like a real supernatural thing, like, the TV, like, water started to come from the TV. It was flickering on and off and, like, nails were were coming out of the floor by themselves. It was like the ghost of Samara was causing all this to happen. Again, none of this is in the original.   In the original, they find the well and they investigate it. They, like, toss a rope down and they go down in there. So anyway yeah. So she ends up down at the bottom of the well and he runs off to help her. In the meantime, she is having some visions down there and she’s piecing it all together pretty quickly. Supernaturally, the well, the top of the well, is coming back over her, trying to see her back in, and when she looks up, she sees the ring that she’s been seeing this whole time Right. Which is this. And, again, it doesn’t physically make sense because in order for this to happen, the lid would have to be a little smaller than, the opening, but we’ve seen that the lid actually, like, is much bigger than the opening.   But anyway, the idea is that the sunlight kind of creeps in around the edges of the top of the well when it’s sealed, and makes that ring. So the ring really was supposed to refer to the cyclical nature of this video. At least that’s how it originally was, in the remake. Right. They really make a point of this physical actual ring. People are like like, Right. Noah’s visions, he’s drawing a ring, she’s absolutely drawing a ring, Katie was drawing a ring. But what she’s able to do, and I think this was clever, is piece it together that the ring is what Samara had to stare up at for 7 days, before she died.   In the meantime, she looks and sees on the sides of the walls that there’s scratch marks where somebody obviously been trying to claw out herself out. A cheap shot, but okay, whatever because it’s supernatural. She has the vision in the well of exactly what happened. And that is that Samara was standing at that well staring at the tree in this big field, and her mother comes up from behind her and says, all I wanted was you, before putting a big plastic bag over her head, starting to suffocate her, and then dumping her into the well. So the mother apparently thinks that she killed her before she tossed her into the well, but the tragedy of the situation is that Samara wasn’t even dead at that point. The body, kind of lifts up, in the well, and she embraces it, and it looks like Samara as she was. But again, it’s part of her vision, and as her vision kind of fades away, she sees that she’s holding a the skeleton, of this girl. And this is where, you know, we’ve hit the traditional ghost story of, oh, I guess the point of it is to make peace with the ghost by finding the body, and then bearing it properly.   You know, that kinda deal. 

Craig:  Right. Okay. And and that that’s very traditional, you know. I I you’ve seen that a lot, you know, when a when a body is not laid to rest appropriately, then the spirit, you know, haunts and whatnot. And and I’m I’m all well and good with that. And it’s actually kind of a sweet moment when she lifts up, you know, Samara in her normal childlike state is is cute and innocent, and you feel sympathy for her, and you feel sympathy for Rachel because you think that she’s done such a good thing here. And it appears then that it’s gonna be happily ever after. They kind of ride off together and, eventually they, you know, they pick up, Aidan and they’re all in the car together, and I think that Rachel and Aidan are holding hands.   And then here’s where the twist comes. Now before we get to the twist, this bothered me the first time I saw it, and it still bothers me. I understand that from what Rachel has been shown, it appears that this mother maliciously killed her daughter because she was mentally unstable or mentally unill, or maybe there was something going on with this daughter that was supernatural and that was inconvenient and was causing bad things to happen. Like, because Samara didn’t like the horses, the horses died. And of course that’s not a good thing. That’s their livelihood and, you know, if it’s causing problems for the whole island, okay, so maybe she would have a motive to kill her. But it seems like we’re supposed to sympathize with Samara at this point. However, if Samara’s whole purpose was to find peace and to find aid and assistance, why would she do that by killing people? Like Yeah.   That just didn’t make any sense to me. And and killing innocent people. I mean, it reminds me, I don’t wanna in case we ever watched this movie or in case you haven’t seen it, it reminds me of that Kevin Bacon movie, Stir of Echoes, where there’s a a very similar thing going on. And, once the spirit is, you know, satisfied, once once the spirit is laid to rest then everything is okay. But even in that movie, though there were hauntings and there were strange things going on, the spirit didn’t seem to be malicious. So I was curious as to why Rachel would just disregard all of that that had happened. You know, the the fact that all these people had died, including her niece. I mean, it ends up making sense with the twist.   Why don’t you go ahead and, explain the twist? 

Todd:  She’s laying her son to rest, and she’s like, oh, you know, it’s all over now, because we found Samara and we put her to rest, whatever. And he bolts up out of bed and says, you helped her? And she’s like, well, yeah. And he says, you weren’t supposed to do that. She never sleeps. And then we cut to Noah, and Noah remember, he watched the tape, what, the next Todd? So this would be the next Todd, and Noah’s back in his studio. And I’m not gonna walk us through the whole thing, but suffice it to say, that there is a very creepy and, I think, extremely effective, scene where the tape comes on. And basically what happened to Katie happens to Noah, except we get to more or less see it. This was great, and I think what’s kind of creepy about the Japanese film is that we don’t get a ton of the backstory.   We don’t get a ton of the explanation. There aren’t these premonitions, so there’s not a kid to say, oh, you weren’t supposed to do that. We just discover Todd our horror that that is still not going to stop this from happening. So, yeah. So that that’s that’s kinda what happens. Rachel runs there, re realizing that Noah’s in danger, tries to call him. He’s not answering. When she gets there, she discovers him in the chair.   So she runs home and she grabs the tape and she’s just smashing against the floor like, what’s wrong? What do you need from me? What do you want from me? And she destroys the tape in the process and tosses it into the fireplace. And then pretty much conveniently, I think, because she comes up with these ideas that are pretty spot on pretty quickly, she realizes what was different about her is that she made a copy of the tape. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  I don’t know if a person would ever figure that out, but 

Craig:  Yeah. I don’t know either. I mean and and again, that’s one of those things she does. I mean, she figures things out pretty quickly. I mean, we can give her credit for being smart or whatever, but, yeah, she thinks why you know, she says out loud, why not me? Why him? Why not me? So she thinks, you know, what was different? And so she sees the copy under the couch and she thinks, ah, that’s what’s different. I made a copy. He didn’t. So her theory is that if she helps or if she has Aidan make a copy, that then he will be safe.   And so that’s exactly what she does. It’s kind of a neat shot where she’s guiding his hand on the machine. As they’re sitting there, doing this, she says something like, It’s gonna be okay now. And Aiden says, Well, what about the person we show it to? What happens to them? And we see a look on her face and she doesn’t really respond and then it just cuts to black, and that’s, the end. I I like it. I don’t know, you know, talking about it now, I I I like it even more because, you know, we’ve now talked for over an hour, about the plot, and there’s there’s a lot going on. And it it is fast paced, and, I never lost interest. I was never bored.   In fact, I I really feel like I could probably go back and watch this again and catch things that I hadn’t caught before. I think that it’s it’s probably a movie that deserves at least a couple watch, a couple watches, a couple viewings because, there really is a lot going on. Is it, really, you know, believable that all of these puzzle pieces would fall into place so conveniently? Certainly not. But at the same time, it’s well constructed enough so that it doesn’t seem like such a leap of faith, to believe these things, that it doesn’t, it didn’t pull me out. It I I was okay with it. 

Todd:  I I’m the same way. You know, at at times, it can feel, you know, honestly, the investigation sequence reminded me a little bit of a giallo film. You know, we’ve seen a couple of those, and what we talk about in those is that how, oftentimes the investigation doesn’t make a heck of a lot of sense. They just conveniently stumble across things or they just have some vision, and so it leads them to some house somewhere. It it all ends up pretty random in those kind of movies. This movie, there are a couple moments where it seems a little too convenient, but at least it makes sense. It’s not super random. 

Craig:  Yeah. Right. 

Todd:  So, yeah. No. It it was totally fine. And again, that’s what makes this movie, I think, better, than at least the one Japanese movie that came before it. In that, I’m telling you, with Ringu, you watch it, it creeps you out, and then you’re treated to another hour of investigation where really nothing spooky or supernatural happens. And then you get that, you know, the thing at the end, so it’s really more of a detective story bookended by a ghost story in that sense. In this case, it feels more like a ghost story throughout. But you’re right.   I guess what what we’re supposed to understand is that Samara herself, even as a girl, is just plain evil or at least Evil. Right. Yeah. Right? Or at least can’t help that she’s evil in some way, shape, or form. You know? She doesn’t need any kind of resolution. She is just going to continue to visit upon other people the pain that she experienced. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  That’s that’s that. And that’s a real nihilistic, you know, kind of thing. And I think that’s what makes this movie so creepy is it’s it’s terribly nihilistic. And, again, that’s what you’re gonna find in j horror and Korean horror and stuff like that as things are just generally really bleak and nihilistic, in their traditions of of of horror films. 

Craig:  Yeah. I wanted just to say that, visually, I I really appreciate this movie. There’s some really good images. You kind of, you know, that that last scary climactic scene with Samara climbing out of the television. Again, that’s another one of the iconic scenes, and that that specifically was a scene that I wish that I had not seen before I saw the movie. It was in almost every trailer. It’s the most exciting part of the movie, and it was just kinda spoiled, you know, in in the marketing and and that was a little bit disappointing. But there’s some other, you know, the throughout I think is good but there are some really striking images.   The one that stands out to me, is in the flashback scene where we see Samara from the back standing in front of her well, and in the background are these rolling hills and that, that that tree with the red leaves, and there are horses, you know, kind of grazing. And it’s just a beautiful picture, and there’s some really, interesting images like that that I really appreciated from a technical perspective. You’re the tech guy. Would you agree? 

Todd:  Oh, yeah. That was beautiful. The great cinematography in here. The director is Gore Verbinski, and he does really good stuff. Was it maybe a couple years after this that he did the Pirates of the Caribbean film, the first one. Yep. So he really he really switched gears here. I’ve always kinda liked what Gore Verbinski does.   A little bit of the horse stuff was kinda silly though. I I thought it was funny, you know, that fairy scene when she’s going over to the island and, she’s staring out into space, and she walks back absently and comes across that horse and the horse pen, and she reaches in and the horse kind of veers up at her. And she’s like, oh, oh, don’t worry. You know, just it’s okay. I’m not gonna hurt you. And she reaches her hand back in again, and it’s clearly antagonizing this horse. And he rears up. Right.   And she’s just standing there like, no, it’s okay. It’s okay. Like like, what? Just walk away. 

Craig:  Right. Exactly. Stop annoying. Yeah. I glossed over that scene. I forgot. I actually really liked that scene. It was exciting when the horse breaks out and is running all around the ferry and it eventually jumps off.   You know, it it was kinda hard to watch, you know, we’ve talked about this before. I it’s difficult for me to watch animals in peril and animals suffering, but, it was a dramatic scene. It was exciting. And there are some, you know, cut in here into these investigation scenes. There are some exciting and suspenseful scenes. You know, I I I I like the movie. I I guess that’s what I’m getting at. I in fact, I I liked it better this time around than I remembered liking it, the first time.   So I think maybe I just kinda needed to be away from it for a while and return to it with fresh eyes. 

Todd:  I liked it Todd, and I know you’re trying to wind us down, but there’s one thing I wanna I wanna bring up, and that is this tape. Okay? As beautiful as the tape is and as as cool as the imagery is and it and how it all kinda makes sense with the story as she progresses, what I don’t understand is this tape is very specific to her and her experience. It turns out to be. So Right. When other people watch the tape, are they gonna see different things, or is it for everybody, it always gonna play out this way? You know what I mean? Or do they just not do the investigation, and so they don’t get, you know, to see the ladder and the the water, you know, of the the dead horse and the this you know, the tree on the hill or whatnot. 

Craig:  Yeah. I don’t know, and that’s something that I don’t remember from the sequel, and I don’t know like you said, I think there’s, like, 16 different iterations of this. I don’t know if the tape remains the same throughout. I can’t imagine that it would. That would seem I would think that that would get really stale and boring really soon. So there’s got to be more to, the mythology of this. I just can’t imagine it sustaining for as long as it has. And and maybe, like I said, I don’t remember the sequel, and maybe with, Rings, the one that’s in theater now, maybe we’ll get some more mythology.   I know that, that one of the Japanese sequels was actually a prequel. I think it was called Ringu 0 or something like that. And, it tells a lot more of Samara’s backstory and actually makes her more of a sympathetic character, which on paper doesn’t sound really good to me, but I’d be really interested to see what they do with it. I’m not gonna race out and seek it out right away, but, it would be interesting to kinda see I would, you know, with so many different iterations, I would be interested just to even read up more about, the universe and the mythology that goes along with it. 

Todd:  Yeah. It would be interesting because, like, for example, in the original one, like, the mother, she they they don’t breed horses. She’s like a traveling like showman, like a traveling psychic kind of person, you know, back into the turn of the century. And and it puts it back much earlier than, like, 1978, I think, which is which is when all the events of this happens. She’s a little more old, and so they don’t get to see, you know, her husband or whatever. There’s none of that. Gotcha. In their investigation, they come across old films of, this couple doing this traveling.   It’s essentially like a traveling sideshow where she would, like, you know, get objects from people in the audience and then be able to tell them about themselves, or she would, you know, do like a psychic presentation, basically, and then this was their daughter. So the parents themselves, you know, in the original novel and in the original Japanese film are also I don’t know if they are legitimately psychic, you know, or not, but there’s clearly some implication because their daughter, therefore, you know, has these powers. Gotcha. Because it would have to be totally different. You know what I mean? Yeah. In in that sense. 

Craig:  Yeah. I actually I I wanna see the new one, because with the advancements in technology, I think there’s all kinds of cool things that they could do. I mean, my Todd. Surely, somebody would put this on YouTube. Right? I mean, that would be an easy way to get it off your back. 

Todd:  And now the whole world is doomed. Yeah. It’s so funny how much of this we’ve we’ve got explain to a modern audience. Right? All these little things. Well, thank you for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend, but don’t make a copy of it. Just tell them where it is. You can find the copies that we upload anyway on iTunes.   We’re also on Google Play and on Stitcher. Also, you can find us on Facebook. Thank you again, Jordan, for your recommendation. We are take 4 recommendations, and we will, of course, watch the movies you want us to see because it’s a lot more fun that way than us just, fiddling our thumbs. Yep. Alright. Until next time. I’m Todd. 

Craig:  And I’m Craig. 

Todd:  With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.