Borderline (2023)

Episode 456, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: This week we are doing a brand new movie that came out in March of this year called Borderline starring Samara Weaving Ray Nicholson, who is Jack Nicholson’s son. Ah, written and directed by Jimmy Warden. Did you not realize that?

No. But now that you say it, it. Total sense. Super obvious, right? Like the guy Uhhuh, he was also in Smile, wasn’t he? Or Smile? Two, one of the two. Uh, one of them I think. Yeah. He was like perfect for that. He 

Craig: kind looks like his dad. Oh, he totally looks like his dad, in fact. And he’s kind of got that wild look about him.

That makes so I did not know that. And it makes so much. Sense. He’s 

Todd: pretty wild in this movie. He plays, uh, a guy named Paul Dorson, who is basically a stalker for a celebrity and this whole movie when you go Crazy person. Yeah, yeah. Crazy dude. Which makes the whole movie crazy. And I guess this is loosely based on a Madonna stalking in 1996.

Right. Hence the title. Borderline. Yeah. Yeah. Is that like a reference to her song? Yeah. Oh, it all, they play the song in the movie. It’s all coming back to me now. It’s, it’s a cover, another song they play in the 

Craig: movie. Oh, that’s a great song. That’s one of my favorite scenes. Don’t spoil it. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Todd: Yeah. In that case, I think there was a guy who confronted her body card and was going to, uh, said that he was going to slit her throat if she didn’t marry him. And then escaped a mental hospital later. Mm-hmm. But was, was caught again, so, uh, not, not too far off from, yeah. Quickly subject to this movie here, and I guess I didn’t realize this, but, uh, the writer director, Jimmy Warden, is married to Samara Weaving in real life.

Did you know that? Yeah. Yeah. 

Craig: I only because of this movie and because of researching it, I didn’t know that either. And I don’t know if they met on. The babysitter. 

Todd: Mm. 

Craig: But they both worked on that movie. Seems like it. And that was a movie we’ve done and we loved it. I loved that movie. I thought it was so good.

And that’s when I fell in love with Samara Weaving. And I am still desperately in love with her. Like I just think that she is stunningly gorgeous and a really unique. Cool way. She’s girl next door, but she’s also like a kick ass chick and uh, I just think she’s so cool. And yeah, they’re married. I think this is his directorial debut, at least with a feature length film, but he wrote.

Cocaine bear. Mm-hmm. Which I saw, and I really honest, I don’t remember a whole lot about it, but I do remember thinking that it was very funny. Like I was shocked at how good it was. I enjoyed it. Yeah. I, yeah, that was one of those, 

Todd: it’s one of those movies that feels like it. It’s a big joke. And so I didn’t really hold out a lot of hope for it, and then when I watched it I was like, oh my God.

Movie is hilarious. Yeah, I, I really enjoyed it. He does have a nice comic sensibility to him. The babysitter was just darkly comedic, almost disturbingly, so, and I thought, mm-hmm. Um, cocaine bear the same way. It’s just shocking. And then this movie really in the same vein in a way, although I felt like this movie was for me overall, felt a little slower.

At first, I was really on board with the pace and the speed of it, and then as it went on, I, I found myself kind of watching my, watching the clock a little bit. 

Craig: I think that’s kind of the general sentiment. I think response to it has been kind of middle of the road like. Some people like it, some people don’t.

Like you said, a common criticism is that it’s too slow. I, I honestly think that I just like this style and sense of humor so much, and I like Samara weaving so much that anytime she’s on. Screen, I am engaged. It wasn’t even an effort for me to overlook some of the slower parts. Well, I guess what I’m trying to get at is mm-hmm.

I’ve read the criticisms and I understand them and, and I think that people who are criticized that make valid points. Mm. Nonetheless, I really enjoyed it. It is one, one thing can just go ahead. I wanted to address really quick. Yeah. I, I mentioned this, uh, movie in our chat for our book club. Uh huh And a, a, a couple of people chimed in that this was a little bit dated in its approach to that whole crazy people.

Are the villains trope, oh, in so much as maybe it’s. Insensitive about mental illness or struggles with mental health, and frankly, I had never really thought of that because portrayals of people who are crazy in these movies are so over the top and cartoonish to me that it never occurs to me that we would associate that with.

Anything real. It’s right. It’s, yeah. So anyway, I just wanted to put it out there. I’m going to call this guy a crazy guy. I’m sorry. I hope that that doesn’t seem insensitive to anybody, and I don’t, I do understand the serious nature of people who struggle with their mental health, so I in no way mean any disrespect in that way, but I’m gonna call him crazy.

Todd: Yeah. I mean, okay, that’s all. It’s a horror movie. I think it’s, it’s a well made horror movie with a lot of art behind it. So obviously like it has high, it has higher pretensions and so I maybe that leads people to examine that with a closer lens. Yeah. But honestly, when you look back at all the horror movies that we do, most of the protagonists or crazy right?

Like, you know, but they’re co right. It’s all right. Right. 

Craig: Yeah. It’s part and parcel of the, of the genre. I think the concern is that it stigmatizes people with mental health struggles. Sure. And I just, I understand that concern. I just don’t see it that way. I don’t think the portrayals that we see, we have talked about this many, many times of like.

Mental institutions or whatever, that’s not real. We know that’s not real. Yeah. We know that people aren’t bumbling around eating the checkers and stuff, you know, like, yeah, I get it. It’s, it’s fiction and this guy’s crazy, so, Hmm. The 

Todd: music in this film is really good. I, that’s so good. It’s done by the Mondo Boys, which I guess are a couple of guys who have done music for a number of films and uh, and things just from the very beginning.

The score in this film is just. It calls attention to itself. It’s so good. But it also fits really well. I guess they composed, Dave Made a maze. Have you ever seen that one where the guy makes a maze out of cardboard in his living room and, no. That’s one I’ve always wanted to see. Yeah. And a whole bunch of stuff since then.

But also, yeah, of course this movie is their latest one that they have done. Man, the music is so good. There are also some pop songs in here mm-hmm. That come up and we’ll talk about that later, of course. But yeah, I, and the, and the, God, the cinematography is so nice. The lighting and it’s just beautiful and it, I feel like this movie does that thing where you take such a beautiful image and then have such sudden graphic, horrible violence happening at times within that, that it’s that very uncomfortable dichotomy that we sometimes get in in horror movies, especially a horror comedy.

And I think it actually works pretty well here. Like I said, my only complaint. Personally was just that it felt a little slow after a while. Mm-hmm. You know, at first, like I said, I was kind of into it. I liked the pacing. I thought that the opening scene was really intriguing. Yeah. And I believe that’s the one right where, where Paul first approaches the bodyguard at the front of the house at this big, big mansion.

Craig: Right. Well, 

Todd: or am I 

Craig: wrong? It starts with a shot of a wedding and it all looks very beautiful. It looks like the, oh, beginning of a rom-com. Ah, yes. And. The main guy, Paul narrates and says, I hate it when they show the ending first, but I just couldn’t help myself. It’s a sweet, romantic, charming wedding with him and the main girl, Sophia, the girl that I’m in love with, she’s in like a blue wedding dress and they’re getting married and they’re, you know, looking into each other’s eyes and they’re kissing and then.

I don’t remember if it’s on screen. I think it’s, you know, like a scroll on screen that says. Back to the beginning. Mm-hmm. And then we jump back and then we get the actual story. She is, like you said, this is based on Madonna and I wouldn’t say that she’s playing Madonna, but she’s playing a Madonna like role.

She’s a huge yeah star. We see a whole montage of like posters and movie trailers and red carpets, and I don’t know if they shot all this stuff. Or if they shot some stuff and then also just pulled, because you know, Samara Weaving’s a huge star, so there’s footage of her on red carpets and stuff. I was really curious of whether or not they used real stuff or if they shot it all, but whatever.

It’s just establishes that she’s a, a huge, huge star. Right. And then we get to the scene that you were talking about where the groom that we saw in that first scene. Knocks on the door of her mansion and her security guide Bell. Shoot, I didn’t write down his name. He’s very famous. He’s married to the Zema girl.

He’s uh, Dr. He’s Dr. Mcy, I think. Uhhuh. Eric Dane. Eric Dane. Eric Dane, who is very, very handsome, always has been. I think he recently announced that. He’s been diagnosed with Luke E’s disease. Oh no. Yeah, a LS, but, uh, he is committed to keeping working. I saw an interview with him and I think that he’s, I should fact check these things before I say them, but I’m pretty sure that he’s said that he’s lost almost.

All mobility on one side of his body and oh no, he’s concerned about losing it on the other side, but he’s also committed to continue working. Now, this movie came out in 2025. I don’t know when that diagnosis happened, but he seems well able bodied in this movie. Yeah, and he’s very likable. He’s like the older gray haired security guard.

Her personal security guard. We hadn’t even talked about that opening scene yet. Yeah, 

Todd: yeah. With, um, the bodyguard and it’s good. Mm-hmm. Paul’s basically coming up and, uh, he’s, he’s, he’s clearly, like you said earlier, he’s a crazy person who is a delusional that he and Sophia are lovers and he’s going to propose and he has a rose there and he’s just does all this byplay with a bodyguard.

He’s trying to weasel his way in and you get the sense well. It’s clear that this is not the first time he’s been by. 

Craig: Yes. Yeah, it’s, it’s funny to me that you said delusional, because that’s the exact word that I had in my notes. What I had is, Paul is charming. But delusional. Yeah. And he is charming and that I think makes this guy’s performance really interesting because yes, he’s crazy, but he’s delusional.

He, in his mind, he believes these things and he is charming. He’s endearing in a way, E, except for we learn very quickly in the scene that he is. Dangerous. Yeah. I, I, I really liked this scene. It seemed like the bodyguard bell felt for this guy. Mm-hmm. You know, he didn’t, he, he didn’t want to call the police.

He didn’t want to have to hurt this guy. He knows this guy is. Delusional. It’s not his fault. Um, yeah. But it’s, it’s also his job to keep him away and is not even there anyway. Right. So he tries to, he, he tries to be nice to him. He tries to send him away. I feel like maybe he goes back in and then there’s another knock on the door.

Is that right? Yeah. 

Todd: Because I think that when he comes out the second time, doesn’t he have a knife up to his neck and he’s threatening suicide? 

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: And he just kind of like, pulls out an imaginary engagement ring and, and tries to propose to him. 

Craig: Yes. Yes. Because at this point, the second time he knocks on the door, he speaks to Belle as though Belle is Sophia.

Yeah. It’s like he’s hallucinating. Right. Yeah. Like he really thinks it’s her, which is important again later. You’re Sophia, don’t shoot, 

Clip: don’t look. I’m an arm. Let me help say you’re Sophia. Okay? I’m Sophia, and you love me. I’m Sophia and I love you Now gimme the knife. Boy, stay there. 

Craig: And it doesn’t like it.

It doesn’t seem, it doesn’t seem like a trick. It seems like he’s crazy and he really thinks that Belle is her. Yep. Yeah. And he does a whole, very romantic proposal. Bell goes along with it a little too much. He goes along with it too much. That’s what I have. He’s too nice. Yeah. Uh, yeah. And this guy, you know, the.

Paul seems to know too much, like he knows about See, but I don’t even, he knows that Bell’s wife had had cancer and died, and I, I’m, I’m really not sure how he knew all that. I think. He’s, he is smart. He’s a good stalk, stalker, right? But anyway, bell plays along with this whole proposal thing, and he allows Paul to embrace him after he says yes to the marriage proposal.

And then Paul stabs. Yeah, it’s tragic. It’s a big old knife. 

Todd: Yeah. And I thought he’s, I thought he’s gonna bleed Die day. Me too. Yeah. I was a little confused by the text. For some reason, the text on the screen I thought said six months earlier, but apparently it’s six months later, things pick up again.

That, that confused the heck out of me. 

Craig: Yeah, but you, you. Mentioned, uh, the music earlier and it’s when he’s laying there dead. Well, first there’s kind of a montage of Paul like partying it up, living it up in Sophia’s house. Ah, inside the house. Yeah. And he takes a bath and he swims in the pool and, you know, all kinds of cool stuff.

But then it cuts back out to Bell who is laying there seemingly bleeding out and. We see him up close at first, but then it cuts way back. So it’s just kind of a shot of the driveway and the mansion and the title borderline starts coming up to Annie Lennox’s No More. I love you. Like all of this. Just hit a tone for me.

Yeah, like it felt, I don’t know, late eighties, early nineties, and I love Annie Lennox and I love that song, and it was. So it didn’t match the tone of the violence. Right, right. Like it countered it in such an interesting way. Yeah. It’s a dichotomy. I think I’m gonna like this movie. Mm-hmm. Like I am, I am into the people, I’m into the performances, I’m into the tone, I’m into the music.

The borderline title, just like crawling up this. The screen. It got it. He caught me. Yeah. You, you’ll get me with a good in introduction. 

Todd: Yeah. It’s, it does a perfect job of establishing that tone, I think. And that’s the tone we’re gonna get throughout the whole movie. It’s darkly comedic and it’s slower at paced, as I said, a million times already.

Basically, Bell’s gonna goes back to work for Sophia. He has a young daughter, Abby, and she’s worried about him. They have a nice little relationship. And Sophia’s played by Samara Weaving, right? Mm-hmm. She’s the one, yep. Mm-hmm. And then they learn that he’s escaped from prison, right along with. An inmate, penny Pascal, who was like, I don’t know who’s that girl from the suicide squad.

It reminded me of her. The Joker? Uh oh, oh y. 

Craig: Yeah. I think of her name, either God. 

Todd: Right? But you know what I’m talking about. Kind of a Carley Clownish. Harley Quinn. Harley Quinn. Harley Quinn. Yeah. She was given serious Harley Quinn vibes, I thought at times. Anyway, yeah. Not in the beginning, but 

Craig: yeah, later he has escaped with her.

Like he, I think he’s recruited this girl, and I loved her too. I don’t, this actress, I don’t have her name in front of me, but she, I think, has been a rising star somewhere else. I don’t know if it’s in Latin America or Europe, but she’s been a rising star. I think this is her big first English speaking role, but I really liked her.

He, he escapes with her and he’s gotta helper on the outside. Who’s this? Big guy who just seems like somebody who is very easily influenced, very easily manipulated. Mm-hmm. Not inherently a bad guy, but he’s been influenced and manipulated by this guy to help him escape prison and blah, blah, blah. And yes, Sophia, we finally meet her.

And again, I don’t think that she’s, maybe she is. I don’t know if she is. I don’t think she’s doing a great job. I don’t think she’s intentionally like trying to. Play Madonna. She’s just trying to play the role of a very famous, rich pop star who I don’t know. I mean, I didn’t find her unlikable. She’s self-centered and egotistical, but she seems fun.

Yeah, and she seems relatively grounded and centered except for that, you know, like she has. Candlesticks that have her heads, like at the part that hold the candles and her, I don’t wanna say her boyfriend because it seems like they have only recently met. In fact, I think this might be their first date, I’m not sure, but she’s met this guy Rhodes and.

Slept with him. Good for them. I hope they had a good time. Um, but he is, he’s based on Dennis Rodman, who, yeah. Madonna dated in like 1996 for a minute. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: I just have in my notes. Did they just meet yesterday? Like I, I think maybe they met yesterday. I don’t know. Because they had this cute scene, right, where they’re like.

No, exactly. They have that cute scene where he knows she’s famous, but he’s not entirely sure who she is. And she’s like, what’s my favorite song of yours? And he’s like, oh, girls just want to have fun. And she’s like, no, that’s. Cyndi Lauper and he says something else, I think a Madonna song, and she’s like, do I look like Madonna?

And he says, uh, A little, actually, a little. That’s right. 

Todd: It was a fun end joke. They argue right for a while who? The, the security, the numbers. Because he leaves, right? He leaves for a while. 

Craig: Yeah, he does. I mean, bell comes over because he hears that the guy has. Escaped. Right. And on his drive over, they play love fool by the cardigans from Romeo and Juliet, which again, I love this soundtrack.

I think I may have mentioned this before. I talk to Alan about it all the time. It’s very obvious to me that the people who are in charge of things right now are our age, because I keep hearing. Our music and stuff. Yeah. Like I’m hearing lots of Tori Amos, I’m hearing tons of stuff from the nineties, and this movie is no exception.

I, I feel like you’re trying to get to the part where the threat happens. Right. There’s a lot of stuff that happens. There’s a lot of stuff that happens before that that I don’t even necessarily remember. Like Sophia and Rhodes go to a club and they sexy dance together and Yep, 

Todd: that’s true. Is very sexy.

I don’t know why, but Yeah, they do. I guess they’re just hanging out. Oh. ’cause they just, they just go right. Like they’re, they’re gonna leave the house. Penny shows up at the mansion. Right. Yeah. Yeah. There’s a security guard there who we haven’t met before. Uh, it’s not Bell, it’s just a guy out by the gate.

So when she parks her car, he comes out and boy does she go in and kill him in a brutal fashion. God, what does she do? She, I just remember this was the first, I 

Craig: don’t, they they, it’s a, it’s a big fight. Like they have a big fight. Yeah. And I don’t remember. And it’s very actiony and she. Again, I apologize for my use of the word.

She’s crazy. She’s enjoying this. And, and later, you know, uh, eventually she bests him. I, I frankly don’t remember exactly how she kills him. It’s very violent and bloody, and they’re hitting each other and I think she smashes his head or. Something. I think that’s what it is. 

Todd: Yeah, like a microwave or something.

It’s just really some big, big thing. It’s shockingly brutal and gory. I was, I was really surprised at this point, but this is very much like his tone in the babysitter, I would say. Yeah. There’s that moment where the violence really starts happening where, you know, the, the guy comes downstairs and you think they’re all having fun and then the babysitter whips out two knives and just jams ’em right into the side of, of that guy’s head.

It’s just very similar to that. 

Craig: I think even in the violence, I feel like even in the violence, there’s just something very playful about it. Like, well, yeah, of course there’s, you know, that kind of. Aggressive violence in real life is terrible, but when you’re watching a movie like this, I feel like this guy knows how to make it fun.

It, it doesn’t seem so serious, you know? Right, right. It’s just a movie. Let’s just have fun with it. Yeah. They also, you know, they, these three bad guys, they also. Kidnap somebody. They go to some guy’s house and the nice sweet girl, Penelope, whatever her name is, she’s like, oh, I had some car trouble. And he’s like, oh, I’ll help you.

And she kind of winks at the camera or whatever. We find out later that they’ve kidnapped this guy for a particular reason, and the cop bell leaves his. Daughter with her aunt and they see the big guy. I just have his name as JH. Is that what they called him? JH? Yeah. JH. Or did I abbreviate it? Yeah. He’s this really big guy, and again, he’s also kind of stereotypical.

He’s kind of like the big dumb. He’s the big dumb goon who will do whatever the man bad guy tells him, and he is. Out there. And so the ant calls a cop and everything. As is typical of movies like this, when you have several plot lines going on at the same time, everything jumps back and forth. So I may be kind of, yeah, combining this story, but the ant calls the cops, a cop comes, he’s kind of, he’s skeptical.

He thinks they’re just being. Paranoid, like, oh, there was a person outside your apartment. Like there was a guy on the city street. Ooh, scary. But they’re insistent, so he humors them and. I thought it was funny where they’re like, you can just go, you know, watch the street from your car or whatever. He’s like, my bike.

Like he’s a bike cop and the reason that he wants to get out of there is because he wants to go, he needs to get to an audition. Ah, and one, one of my favorite scenes of the movie happens when he is outside just, you know, keeping watch or whatever, but he’s rehearsing. His audition and he does the whole song and dance Yes.

With this whole thing right there on the street. And it’s like old Hollywood singing in the rain style. Mm-hmm. He’s doing like jazz squares and stuff. Yeah. Oh my gosh. It is so funny. And at some point, like somebody rides their bike by, or walks by and he like stops and tries to act cool. Like he wasn’t just dancing on the sidewalk.

Uh, that’s one of, at least. Two parts that are so stylized and kind of the, the next one is even more removed from reality that made this movie really fun for me. Right. Do you know what I mean? 

Todd: Yeah. I know. You can’t take it seriously, so you start having fun with it. Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: And 

Craig: that’s, that’s kinda how I felt with it.

Not that the stakes weren’t high, because meanwhile, Penelope or whatever her name is, has killed the gate guard. So she and the other guy have gotten into the house and that’s about to get violent, but also JH kidnaps. The daughter, the aunt and Bell, and is seemingly taking them to the mansion. Like, yeah, I think what it, Paul is the main bad guy.

I think he’s trying to get at, in his mind, these are all gonna be guests at the wedding, but on, on the way to the mansion, I guess. Bell talks too much or something, and JH tells him to pull over and takes him to the side of the road and shoots him in the head. That was 

Todd: crazy. I was not expecting that. I thought this guy was gonna live to the end or some, some way at least have a, a less, um, a more noble death, you know?

But it just establishes how crazy they are, you know, on well, just how brutal they are, you know, willing, willing to, to do that. So then he just drives Abby and Eleanor. To the mansion, right? Yeah. That’s, that’s messed up. And then I guess what they put Sophia in the booth Yes. Of her recording studio. This beautiful, lavish recording studio that is well lit in all these unique, I, it just gorgeous.

And they’re messing with her. Paul is like, she, she’s trying to reason with him, but he’s just 

Craig: out of it. Yeah. It’s not even that he’s messing with her. He is just so delusional that the things that she says don’t, yeah, they don’t register with him at all. Yeah, exactly. He’s in this delusion that they’re in love and they’re gonna get married and Yeah.

That’s all there is to it. Yeah. I mean, there is, we, I, I suppose, I think you had mentioned it earlier, she and the boyfriend guy. Roads get in a fight, Uhhuh, and she tells him to leave. So he tries to leave, but then he realizes that something as weird is going on. So when she gets in a very tense scene, for some reason the power is out.

I don’t know if they cut the power or if it’s a storm or whatever, but the power is out and there’s a tense scene in the kitchen where Sophia is facing, right? If we’re looking at the screen and she doesn’t realize that. The bad guy is right behind her, and when the lights come back on, he starts speaking to her.

And she’s clearly very frightened. But she’s also, I don’t know, I, I just, I, I love her acting in this, like you said, she tries to reason with him as she continues to when he eventually puts her in there. But 

Clip: Paul, I love it when you call me by my name. Okay. Um, listen, you’re confused. All right. You are in the middle of a psychotic.

Um, they told me what happened to you at my show, and I’m so sorry. Nobody should have to go through that. Okay. This is not the answer. 

Craig: There’s a chase and, and she’s trying to unlock the door, and she can’t because the lock is too hard and he knocks her out and then gets her in there. I, I just think that it’s, it’s played really well that she is scared, but she knows who this guy is.

You know, she knows that he’s crazy and she knows that he’s delusional. Yeah. I. Kind of thought that she would maybe play in. She eventually does play into that, but I thought that she would maybe play into it sooner. Right. She tries to rationalize with him first. She tries to say you’re confused, or, or, or something along those lines.

Mm-hmm. But there’s, there’s no reasoning with him. 

Todd: No, he’s just, he’s out of it. And I think that’s, I mean, that makes him a formidable villain and unpredictable, I suppose. I mean, you know, that he’s just carrying out a plan and it doesn’t seem like there’s anybody who’s going to be able to, with words, convince him otherwise.

So, you know, it’s, he’s like this sort of charming guy, right? This charming. Mm-hmm. Delusional guy who should be able to be manipulated, but he’s pretty resistant to it. And so I find that an interesting aspect of this. I really felt like the. Whole end of the movie would kind of culminate in some elaborate, you know, hoax that they play on him in order to play to his delusions to kinda diffuse everything.

And it doesn’t really happen that way. So, uh, it kind of does, I mean, a lit Well, does it, I mean, all right. We can talk about that later. But, um, 

Craig: yeah, and, and I mean, so there’s. This. I feel like this is the part I imagine that may have gotten a little bit slow to you because there’s like a montage of him, like swimming in there.

They play a a cover of Madonna’s Borderline, yeah. Flaming Lips Cover, which I really liked. Oh yeah. First of all, I like that song. I’m a fan of Madonna. I like the flaming Lips and. I was a fan of this cover, so I thought it was cool, but like, he’s like five stars all around from Craig, right? Like the, the lighting is all red and stuff.

And then he puts on his tux and Penny gives Sophia the blue wedding dress that we saw before. And he has, like, he, he has like this ceremonial wedding dagger. He had told Belle about it before. 

Todd: Oh 

Craig: boy, and the aunt and the daughter arrive, and then comes my favorite part of the movie where Penny is with Sophia.

And Sophia’s supposed to be getting her dress on and stuff, but they’re talking to each other and Penny tells Sophia, look, I know he’s crazy, but his crazy is like. A movie, like I love movies and I, I realized that if I teamed up with him, I could live in his movie. Right. So like, she’s just, she’s just having fun.

She’s killed a guy and had fun doing that, but she’s just having fun doing all of this. Like she’s living in a movie. Yeah. And then. Sophia tricks her and gets out Uhhuh, but they fight like Sophia accidentally. She thinks she’s gonna knock out Penelope, but she accidentally knocks out the boyfriend who’s gotten back inside.

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: So she and Penelope fight. Then I think Penelope like throws SoFi to the ground or something and then just walks over to the piano and starts playing these notes that anybody our age would totally recognize. Like,

what is happening? What is happening? Oh my God, this is so good. It’s the, this is my favorite part of the movie. I watched it a couple of times. 

Todd: I was just gonna say, I think this is the best part. You could go on YouTube and just Google music number, whatever borderline movie. It comes up and it’s so much fun.

Craig: Penelope had said to her earlier like, I’m a big fan. Maybe we could. Duet. Uh, and so she goes over to the piano and she starts playing Celine Dion. That Celine Dion song, uh, it’s all coming back to me now. 

Todd: Written by Jim Steinman? Yes. Mm-hmm. 

Craig: Yes. Who wrote that song for Meatloaf? Yes. I only recently learned that.

Todd: Yeah, he did record it too. Yes. I think on one of his albums, did he, I’m pretty sure. Yeah. I’m, I have it in my head. Mm-hmm. 

Craig: Uh, but anyway, Celine Dion made a huge hit. It was a huge hit. I love it. It’s a great song. But Penelope starts singing it and she’s fantastic. And they get into it and she’s so good. A light comes down on them.

Yeah, the lighting changes, like they’re in concert and they do sing it together. Frankly, I think Penelope’s a better singer than 

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: Sophia, but they sound really, really good. 

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: And they just. Sing most of the song and then they start fighting again. 

Todd: It just, it’s such an odd movie, right? Like that it just breaks for this song.

It’s such a non-sequitur and I don’t know, I was trying to think about it like, is there a meaning behind this in some way? Am I, I mean, I just, what I watched, I just thought it was kind of silly, but then I was trying to think what was. Our writer, director, Jimmy Ward, and thinking when he put this in, was he just trying to be quirky or, I don’t know.

Craig: I just, I dunno if it just, I, again, like I read the middling reactions to it and I get it. I don’t disagree with the things that people said. It just, this guy, I, I feel like he just gets me, like, it just strikes the right tone. Uhhuh, like from the very beginning when that. When the title starts to roll up and you hear, ah, like Uhhuh, I’m like, I’m like, this guy gets me.

Like I get it. I get what you’re doing. It’s not that serious. It’s funny. Just have fun with it and we’re gonna take little breaks. Throughout the movie to just have fun. Uh, does it make any sense? No. Is it realistic? Absolutely not. Is it fun? Yes. Like, yeah. Ah, that, that part alone, I mean, it, it, it sold me.

It was so good. Uh, and then it goes on, right? I don’t know. She said penny. 

Todd: Fire by the end of it, doesn’t she? Isn’t this the end of 

Craig: Yeah. And and and she does. Is this the end of Penny here? She does. Yeah. I, I think she doesn’t want to. No. You know, they, they fight and fight and fight and it gets to a point where Sophia could kill her and Penny says, go ahead and do it.

Go ahead and do it. And Sophia’s like, nah, that’s not my jam. Or something like that. But then. Penny basically does something that forces her hand and yeah, she sets her on fire and locks her in the recording booth and Okay. She, she’s done? Yep. Oh, and then, and then when she’s on fire. She stabs her with a meat thermometer.

I don’t remember why. Oh yes. I don’t even remember why there was a meat thermometer in. I don’t either. The plot don’t either, but there was, and she stabs her with it while she’s on fire. I thought that was pretty funny 

Todd: for no good reason. Yeah, it’s hilarious. By this point, Paul comes back. Rhodes is in there too, right?

He came back to To look for Sophia. Yes, and now Paul starts hallucinating. It took me a while to get this, honestly, because in the movie I just, Paul is so wacky, like I’m not sure. I never really fully internalized, I think until much later that he’s genuinely hallucinating. You know what I mean? The, in the beginning I actually thought that he wa he knew what he was doing when he was, you know, trying to propose to Bell.

Like he was kind of tricking him into the idea that he was hallucinating. Mm-hmm. Because I don’t, it’s not like most movies where it shows a flash of him from his perspective. Right. He just, no. Right. He just does it. So you kind of have to get what’s happening 

Craig: here and Right. Except for the very beginning, because we saw, you know, he said it’s, I hate it when they start at the beginning.

Oh right. And what we see at the beginning, I think is his perception, right? Because it’s a very happy, beautiful scene of him marrying Sophia and it is her in the dress. That never happens. So. His perception is that it’s her. He now thinks that Rhodes is Sophia. Right? So much so that Sophia is actually there and he’s like, um, lady, could you leave us alone?

She’s so confused. None of them know what’s going on. I, I thought that it was. A solid of roads to play along with it, you know? Right. He, he goes along with it. 

Todd: He does. And they go to a church. I guess there’s a church on the property or 

Craig: was this No, there’s a particular church that he has been planning to go to all along.

Ah, that’s right. It’s gotta be nearby. But they show up there and Bell comes back. He’s not dead. Yeah. There was a whole thing. JH only has one eye and Oh, that’s right. They make, they make a point of it and they make a point of how he doesn’t have clear like depth perception. Mm-hmm. So apparently when he pulled over and shot Bell in the head, his one eye made his perception off enough that he really just shot close enough to his head that it knocked him out or something.

I don’t know. But he’s fine. That’s really wacky. He comes back. What a great idea. By the way, I have in my notes weird, sweet Baby Jesus song. I don’t know what that means. I don’t, oh, I don’t remember what that means, but, but Rhodes walks down in the dress. Yeah. Like walks down the aisle. Sophia tries to step in, like, I think she feels bad, like roads shouldn’t have to be in this position.

So she tries to step in and Paul’s like, lady, I told you it’s not about you. Sit down. 

Todd: Oh my God. And so they get up and they do the ceremony. Paul kisses Rhodes. Mm-hmm. And then stabs him in the, in the gut. Yes. I guess the, the opening scene. Foreshadows this. Right. This was always his plan. 

Craig: Yeah. He’s got that ceremonial dagger or whatever.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Then there’s a big fight I think, and bell’s there and did, he’s called the police I think, and somehow he and Sophia get Paul Disarmed and and pinned down 

Craig: while Bell has to take down JH first. ’cause JH is the big goon and he’s still there. I think he drowns him maybe like in a baptismal font or something.

It’s a big fight. Somebody gets drowned. But I thought that, I thought Rhodes slit his throat. I thought, I don’t remember. I don’t know. It, it’s, it, it’s, yeah, it’s a big fight. It’s big in actiony and it all ha right, it, it all happens very quickly. At some point Paul apologizes to Sophia and again, like he remains, I think it’s because, you know, I’m thinking.

Of him as a character. Like he doesn’t really know what he’s doing. Like he almost really can’t even be blamed. He doesn’t know what he’s doing. And, and when he apologizes to her, it appears sincere. And I imagine in that moment, in his mind, it is sincere. Mm-hmm. And, and that’s difficult to play. But if you’ve got Jack Nicholson’s jeans and I, I, I don’t want to.

You know, downplay his talent as an actor. It just so happens that his dad is Jack Nicholson, so he got those genes. It, uh, he, he’s really good at it. I, I, I, I really enjoyed his performance. I found him crazy and frightening. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: But also somewhat endearing. So he apologized to her, but she kicks him in the head and then.

Oh, you’re right. Rhos does slit j h’s throat and the daughter JH is like holding the daughter hostage at the time. So when his slow, his throat gets slit, the daughter gets covered in blood and she, she’s this little girl and she goes, what the fuck?

And it’s funny, but I also really, really like the way the movie ends. Mm. Like we see all the, we see all the cops in the aftermath and like Sophia and Rhode typical, you know, yeah. Sophia and Rhodes like make nice in the back of the ambulance and they’re like, I don’t know, maybe we really could date or whatever.

Who cares? Bell and his daughter have a moment in their car. Mm-hmm. But what I really like about it is that the, the end is. Paul in his delusion, and he thinks that he and Sophia are driving away to go off on their honeymoon in a limousine. But we see as the camera kind of pulls out of a tight closeup on his face as he’s talking, he thinks he’s talking to her.

She’s not really there, that he’s actually in a police car and and being taken away and he stops talking and the credits start to roll. Camera doesn’t leave him, and it’s al he starts to cry. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s almost like, it’s also surreal. He really, he, he’s, he is delusional, but at the same time. He can see beyond his delusion.

Does that make sense? Like Yeah. I thought, I, I, I thought it was great. I, I thought it was amazing acting. It reminded me a lot of Pearl when the credits rolled and they just stayed on her and we just watched Oh yeah. Her face, her her face. It reminded me a lot of that, and I felt like I saw, to call it a realization isn’t.

Isn’t accurate because I, I think that he kind of knew all along, but it’s as though he’s coming to terms with it and watching him just cry. Ooh. Kinda gave me goosebumps. 

Todd: Yeah. It really keeps you watching the credits, that’s for sure. It’s, it reminded me also just slightly of the, uh, ending to the graduate, you know, it’s kind of similar in a way, and that, that always struck me and stayed with me for a long time.

That’s when the newlyweds Right. Run out of the church and are in the back of the, yeah. At the bus getting away, and then it keeps going and keeps going, keeps going, and suddenly, you know, they’re looking at each other and. They don’t really know what to do. Like, all right, we just had that big moment and this sort of the end, but now life goes on and now what?

You know, that’s the impression you get. This is obviously a little more obviously attuned for this particular circumstance, but, uh, yeah, I, I, I thought it was all, like, all of the performances in this movie, very solid. I mean, he is fantastic as Paul. He’s really good. Everyone here is good. Ugh. I I don’t think there was a bad performance 

Craig: in the whole lot, was there?

I don’t think so. I like the whole thing. I, I, to be very honest, and I am the biggest Samara weaving fan, I don’t think that this is her best, only because I don’t think that her. Character had a whole lot to do. 

Todd: No, it’s a little one. Note her character. Yeah. She’s mostly just reacting to things the whole time.

Craig: Yeah. It’s, it’s not a criticism of her at all. Right? It’s, it’s, she did fine with what she had. It. It’s funny, you know, we were supposed to record this a couple of weeks ago and we didn’t, so it’s been a while since. I’ve seen it, but I, and it’s been a while since I’ve looked at my notes, but at the bottom of my notes, I have a note to myself.

I wrote, the movie is lesser than the sum of its parts. Like I, I think that I can understand why people have criticisms of the movie as a whole, but there are so many parts of it. I thought were so, so good. The musical numbers, the big fight between Penelope and and the cop, the Paul’s performance overall, that last scene, there are so many parts that I thought were so good that I would a hundred percent recommend the movie.

It’s so funny when I took the note, I still had that Celine Dion song in my. Head and I, I quoted it. I, I, okay, so here’s my note. The movie is lesser than the sum of its parts. Quote. There were moments of gold and there were flashes of light. There were things I’d never do again, but then they always seemed right.

Oh God. That, that’s the movie in a nutshell to me. Oh, you’re such a dork. I love 

Todd: that 

Craig: song. 

Todd: It’s a great song. I love every single one of Jim Steinman’s songs. He passed away a few years ago and I was pretty devastated. I’ve always loved his music. It’s, it’s distinct and very unique. It’s, it’s theatrical.

Wagner Rock used to call it. Yeah. Very theatrical. Yeah. Well put meatloaf on the map as well as a few other people. But, uh, yeah, I, like I said, I, I enjoyed it, but I, I have to admit, I fell asleep watching it the first time. I had to turn it back on later and, and restarted from the beginning because I was.

All over the map, you know? So I don’t think it’s gonna be everyone’s cup of tea. Mm-hmm. But I think it’s really well made and it’s really quirky. So yeah, just like his other movies, cocaine Bear and Babysitter, they’re all a little like this in their humor, mixed with horror. So if you liked those other two, I think you’d like this as well.

Craig: Agreed. I don’t know what he did on the babysitter. I, I was looking at his credentials and for the babysitter, he’s credited as some asshole. Really? I thought he wrote, I thought he was, he directed it. Look at, I look at it on IMDB. Some asshole. That’s his credit. Some, some asshole. 

Todd: Oh my gosh. Mc G was the director.

Okay. I kind of forgot that. Fair enough. 

Craig: He directed the. No, he wrote the second one. Oh, that’s it. Um, which I didn’t like as much, but I still, I enjoyed it. I didn’t, I didn’t like it as much 

Todd: as the first, but I still enjoyed it. He was a co-producer on, um, the babysitter, the original, so. Gotcha, gotcha.

Besides being some asshole, of course.

Well, thank you so much for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. You can find us online, Google two guys in a Chainsaw podcast. You’ll find our website. You can leave us a message there by clicking speak to us, talk into your computer, leave us a message, and we will play it on the air.

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Craig alluded to our book club earlier. We, we we’re going with Christopher Pike and all kinds of different, uh, horror and horror adjacent books on there, and we have a growing group of people doing that. If that interests you, five bucks a month gets you access to Sta Mini Sos, and, uh, little things that we write up and just basic communication, uh, direct line to us.

Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.