The Guest (2014)

Episode 191, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig:  And I’m Craig.

Todd:  Here we are in the middle of October. It’s Halloween time coming up, and so Craig and I are looking for Halloween movies to do. As we’ve mentioned before, it gets to slim pickings a little bit because we’ve been doing this so long, and we gotta do at least 4 every year. Right?

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  And this time around, we found a movie that although it’s not a Halloween movie, it’s set during Halloween. And so during a lot of scenes, of this film, even though they really don’t explicitly reference Halloween too much except toward the end. You do get some pumpkins in there, you get some decor here and there, references to the Halloween dance coming up and stuff like that. So hey, well, we we take what we can get. Right?

Craig:  Oh, come on. There’s a huge Halloween aesthetic here. I mean, there’s pumpkins everywhere. They carved jack o’-lanterns.

Todd:  That’s what I’m saying. Yeah. But it’s not like, you know, they go out trick or treating. It’s not like it’s about people wearing masks and doing Halloween stuff. I’m doing

Craig:  it alright. Well,

Todd:  you know what I mean. Come on.

Craig:  Yeah. It it’s it’s definitely seasonal though. And and that’s that’s good enough for me.

Todd:  Okay. Okay. Well, the movie is The Guest, from 2014, by Adam Wyndard. He’s pretty famous. Actually, the writer director of this film are also pretty famous for doing Your Next

Clip:  Uh-huh.

Todd:  Which, came a little bit before this. And, is a film that I think what we’ve done on the podcast Yeah. And, we’ve enjoyed quite a bit. This whole I don’t know. This whole, like, school, I guess, of people. Adam Windgard, Ty West. These folks are have been doing some pretty interesting things with horror, I think in the last, I don’t know, 10 years or so. And I got the the same vibes, you know, the same flavor, the same vibes from this movie that I get from his other movies.  And III can’t quite pinpoint what it is. I don’t know if it’s a style or if it’s a sort kind of cinematography or if just a a type of writing, but it’s growing on me. It really is. I think if you listen to some of the earlier things we’ve said about these filmmakers, I’ve been a little more about them. I was even a little about your next. But this movie, 1 could say, is even more straightforward and more simple and even I don’t know. It’s not that original really. It’s No.  It’s it’s like the hand that rocks the cradle or something like that. The the

Craig:  Single white female, you know, like, you know, this where where you’ve got a person who at first seems, you know, very normal, but then there are clear signs that they’ve got a screw loose and it’s dangerous. It’s a trope that you see fairly often, I would say really. Yeah. It’s but that’s, I mean, that’s alright. As long as it’s done reasonably well, it can still be exciting. I would say Todd me, this movie feels like more of a thriller than a horror movie.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  I’m cool with calling it horror. That’s fine. But it does seem more like a thriller to me. On IMDB, they characterize it as like a thriller comedy. I didn’t see did I totally miss some comedy that was going on here?

Clip:  Because I didn’t think it was funny.

Todd:  There are little snippets of comedy here and there, like black comedy, I think. Especially toward the end, especially maybe at the very end. Right? But you’re right. It’s not really funny. The subject matter isn’t all that funny either. Right? It this guy just kinda totally takes over these people’s lives, invades their home in a way, gets into the trust circle of this family through their son, Caleb, who has died. We we never meet Caleb. This is after, you know, the beginning of this movie, but or before the beginning of this movie.  But their son, Caleb, apparently, is a is a war veteran. And this guy shows up. His name is David. He shows up at the house.

Clip:  My name is David, miss Peterson. I, I knew your son, Caleb. And we trained together and served together and, well, we came to be good friends.  Oh, would you would you like to come inside?  Thank you, ma’am.

Todd:  And he tasked me with coming and telling you guys that he loves you all. And that’s Mhmm. What I’m here for. I’m just fulfilling a dying man’s wish, which, touches the mother. Some of the rest of the family thinks it’s a little weird, but they’re all just kind of uncomfortable about it because of the fact that here they’ve been trying to repair their wounds, I think, from this kid’s death. And, here’s this guy tearing them open a little bit just by his very presence. Again, it’s just like any of these movies. It it even follows the predictable path, right, of, what you know from the beginning that this is gonna be and and and I and I mean, to their credit, the filmmakers know you know from the beginning.  They’re not really trying to hide any of this. I think within the first 5 minutes, they’re making you suspicious of this guy.

Craig:  Oh, yeah.

Todd:  You know what kind of movie you’re in for. It’s called The Guest. And it really goes through the paces, I think. Just almost paint my numbers. I mean, that sounds disparaging to say, but Todd be honest, the movie kept my interest and I found it not a 100% predictable. I I knew kind of when Todd direction it was going, but I didn’t quite know how it was gonna get there. And so I found that part a bit entertaining. And then, of course, you always wanna know where it’s gonna end up.  And so all those things together, I have to say, I enjoyed it. But I never heard of it before. How about you, Corinne?

Craig:  No. I no. I had never heard of it either. And and it came out in 2014 and it opened in theaters and it did reasonably well. And I I don’t know how I missed it entirely, but I did. And I don’t know. I thought it was okay. I didn’t think it was great.  I actually thought Your Next was far more clever.

Todd:  Yeah. Oh, for sure.

Craig:  And and enjoyable.

Todd:  But a wholly different kind of movie.

Craig:  Yeah. Different. The thing that I’ll give it credit for is that it doesn’t, at least initially, seem entirely unrealistic. You know, this guy shows up. They’re mourning the loss of their son and brother. The mother seems to be the 1 who’s having the most difficulty processing it, which is believable. I totally get that. He’s a connection that can be made to the son and brother that they lost.  And so, the mom, who is the 1 who has been struggling with the most, it doesn’t take long. I mean, it it seems like she’s a little bit reticent for a couple of minutes, but as soon as she starts talking to this guy, he draws her in. And he tells her why he’s there, which, you know, she has to excuse herself to cry for a little bit. And then she comes back. There’s a a photograph on their mantle of Caleb with his, regiment. And David points and says, hey, look, there’s me. And it is him. So, you know, you believe him.  Yeah. I mean, you believe that he knew their son and and was connected to him. And so, it makes sense to me that she would then embrace that. And and basically, what happens is she invites him to stay. And and he doesn’t impose himself, you know. He doesn’t ask to stay. He he basically says, you know, I I came here to tell you what he wanted me to tell you, and you know, now I’ll go. But she says, oh, no, no.  Please stay. You’re welcome to stay with us. And he basically says, Yeah, I’ll stay for a night or whatever. And then the rest of the family, especially the father and the daughter, there’s, there are 2 kids. There’s a daughter and a son. They’re both teenage. Well, no, excuse me. The daughter’s actually in her early twenties.  She’s 20, I think. She’s turning 21 in, like, a week or something. And then the the son is still in high school. The daughter and the dad are initially more skeptical, but eventually they get on board Todd. You know, the dad drinks. Yeah. Arguably a little bit too much. Mhmm.  You know, after he gets a few drinks in him and he convinces David to have a drink with him, they kinda talk and and David charms his way in. The daughter is skeptical at first too, but eventually, she kinda comes around. And I think that it’s believable because this actor who plays David, his name is Dan Stevens, and not that it would necessarily matter so much to the dad, but he’s smoking hot. Yeah.

Todd:  He is a charming dude.

Craig:  He is, and he’s super, super charming. And he has these beautiful blue eyes, and so I could see how 1 could easily be taken by him. And he’s so not imposing, you know. Yeah. The the dad asks him, you know, what’s what’s your plan after this? He’s like, oh, well, I thought I’d probably leave tomorrow and hop on a bus and go down to Florida and look for work or whatever. And the dad virtually insists that he stays longer until he gets on his feet or figures out what he wants to do or whatever. And so, it’s just kind of a perfect setup. If if this guy is meaning to infiltrate this family, I mean, he nails it, you know? Yeah.

Todd:  Well, and it’s interesting because even by the end of the day, I’m not sure he was. It’s and I guess we’ll talk about it when we get there, but even his motivations for really going to this family and doing this, I’m I’m not entirely clear.

Craig:  That’s the biggest problem that I have with this movie is that it’s not clear. It’s not clear really why he’s there, why he’s doing what he’s supposed to be doing. He, you know, supposedly has this kind of this history in the military and and, you know, eventually the daughter gets kinda suspicious and starts to investigate, and it becomes clear that he’s a dangerous person, and he was involved in some kind of, you know, highly confidential program that the military is now trying to cover up and but I never really understood who he was or what he was or what his purpose was. And I read that in the initial cut, it was like 20 minutes longer and most of what they cut was the explanation for who he was. I guess the, test audience thought that that stuff was either confusing or boring and they didn’t like it and the filmmakers were actually kind of glad because that wasn’t their favorite part of the movie anyway, so they cut it all out. But it left me with a lot of questions at the end of the day.

Todd:  Yeah. And, like, in this scene with with the dad, you get this almost they drop kind of a tantalizing little tidbit of information here. Because, the dad is clearly like an alcoholic. At least, he drinks a ton. And, he really opens up to him because, he’s they’ve had, like, 4 or 5 beers together. And the dad stands up and he walks away and he’s, like, I’m gonna we need to grab a couple more. Are are you good? And he’s, like, yeah. I’ll have a couple more.  And then the dad makes a comment. He says, wow. You can really put away your alcohol.

Craig:  Mhmm.

Todd:  And David just kinda nods and he said, aren’t you tired? And he says, no. I don’t get much sleep. Which is kind of a sinister thing. You’re thinking, okay. Something’s off about this guy. Like, is he a human? You know? Why is he completely unfazed by this alcohol? Why did he say he doesn’t really need sleep? And then there are a couple things a little later on that hint to the fact that maybe there’s something a little supernatural about him or at least superhuman. Right. And then even by the end, of course, and we’ll get there too.  All of that dropped and said, it still doesn’t explain everything, like, even if you know his background and I went on IMDB and I read I I think maybe Wikipedia or IMDB or some place where it just told you basically what the things were that they left out, some of the details about his background, that he was a super soldier type thing. He got injured, in some accident and had some spinal injury. And so the military brought him in for this kind of top secret program that basically made him unable to feel pain and gave him a whole new spine and an almost like, superhuman powers in a way.

Craig:  Right. But then it also made him incapable of empathy. Mhmm. And yeah.

Todd:  Yeah. And So and later the guy even says, because we bring in the military and we’re jumping all over the place here. But, you know, later there’s a old guy at this agency. It’s not necessarily military rights, probably some corporation who nevertheless says, you know, this guy’s been programmed to neutralize any you know, it’s kind of like a robocop. Do whatever it takes to protect the secret of who he is and where he’s from and and the company and all that stuff. Okay. All of that said, there’s still nothing in there that explains why except for his connection with Caleb, he visited this family, sort of infiltrates his family and starts helping them out to these sinister ends. Right? It it still doesn’t explain any of that, the motivation.

Craig:  Yeah. And I I don’t know. It’s it’s still entertaining to watch and it’s still creepy to watch. But things I I have to say too that, you know, things get really kinda creepy really weird really quickly. Like, they embrace this guy so much that, like, the second day he’s there, they send him to pick up their kid from school. Like, that’s kind of weird.

Clip:  That is weird.

Craig:  Yeah. The younger kid, he’s kind of, I don’t know, a nerdy, frumpy kind of kid. And he’s getting bullied at school. And David notices that he’s got like a black eye. And and so when he picks him up, he says, I want you to show me who hit you. And the kid’s like, well, it doesn’t matter. And he’s like, well, I’m not gonna do anything. I just I just wanna know.  And so he shows them. But then David follows these kids out of the parking lot and follows them down the highway. And the the kid, I don’t even remember, his name was Luke, I think. Yeah. Luke, the son, is like, what are you doing? He’s like, oh, I’m just seeing where they’re going. He says, they’re they’re turning into this bar. Luke’s like, yeah, this bar will serve football players. David says, well, I could use a drink.  You want 1? And Luke’s like, no. He’s like 16 or something. But Dave’s, alright. Well, I’m going in. I guess you can hang out out here if you want to. But eventually, Luke goes in and they’re sitting there together. First of all, they get carded. David’s, like, well, did you card those guys? So the bartender’s like, alright.  What do you want?

Clip:  And I can’t help but notice that those ladies over there are drinking cheap beer. That seems like a shame to me. I’d like to buy each 1 of them a blowjob shop.

Craig:  Are you serious? I am. Yes.

Clip:  Do you wanna buy anything for their fellas? Do I look like I’d like to buy something for their fellas?

Craig:  Might be the polite thing to do.

Clip:  Sure. Okay. Fine. Let me get he’s 1 of those guys in cosmopolitan.

Craig:  1 of the boys comes over and says thanks for and I don’t know. I mean, like, it’s all kind of a setup. I didn’t really see it coming in the moment, but it seems like he had a plan in mind. Because he ordered for himself what they called a fireball, which, you know, I’ve heard of fireball whiskey, but apparently this is whiskey and a bunch of Tabasco sauce. So when this guy comes over, he’s like, thanks for the drink, but I don’t want it. And he throws it in David’s face. And David doesn’t really react. Although this guy is a really good actor, like, you can kind of just very subtly see, like, fury in his face for a moment, but then he composes himself and wipes his face off and he says, Maybe you’ll like this better.  And he throws the fireball in this guy’s face which blinds him. So it it makes me think that that was his

Todd:  Plan all along.

Craig:  All along. And then there’s an awesome bar fight. Yeah. Like like almost like a Jean Claude Van Damme kinda deal where David, like, kicks everybody in the bar’s ass single handedly.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  And it looked great. It’s shot really well. It’s choreographed really well. It was really fun to watch.

Todd:  Yeah. You know, a lot of the movies that way and the violence in this movie is really brutal. There’s not a lot of blood or anything, but when when somebody’s kicking or punching or hitting somebody, I mean, you hear the snap and you see the the action. It’s it’s clear and it’s, it’s good. It’s crisp. This guy seems like a real problem for anybody who’s getting across him. He comes across as extremely dangerous and a little unhinged.

Craig:  Yeah. Oh, totally unhinged. And he incapacitates him. Like, you hear their bones breaking. And by the end of it, all of those guys, those high school football players are on the ground, like, writhing in pain, like, they can’t even get up. And then he’s also super manipulative. You know? He’s like, you should call the cops and tell them what really happened. And then he lays out the what really happened story.  Like, these boys were causing trouble, and you can’t really describe the other guys. And for whatever reason, he has a ton of money. Again, that’s never explained either. But like, he’s just got, you know, a stack of 100 in his pocket at all times. And he lays out a few $100 on the table and he’s like, for the damages. And so they just walk away from it free and clear. So this guy, you know, he’s he’s a physical menace, but he’s also smart and really, really good at manipulation and also smoking hot. I so it so in October, you know, I I joke about my partner on here a lot, but he’s actually a really great guy and he doesn’t like horror movies.  But in October every year, he’ll watch them with me for the whole month and not complain about it. And we watched this together. We we just kept saying, oh my Todd, he is so ugly. If I have to look at him for 1 more second, I’m just gonna throw up.

Todd:  And he told me

Craig:  last night, he’s, like, make sure to

Clip:  talk about how smoking hot he is.

Todd:  I’m like,

Craig:  don’t worry. I will.

Todd:  You he’s he’s hot to the point of of parody. I mean, it’s like it’s like could they have found a guy more attractive for this movie who every time the camera comes in on his face, every hair is in the right spot, his eyes are just sparkling. You know, I mean, it’s just kind of insane.

Craig:  Yeah. I was gonna say they, like, they they cast kind of against type because I guess this guy had previously been known for being a regular on Downton Abbey, which I don’t watch so I I didn’t recognize him from that. But I guess he was kinda schlumpy and chubby in that show. And then, right before this movie, he had done another film where he had to be super, super emaciated. And that’s what he looked like when they auditioned him and they really liked him and they really wanted to cast him, but it was part of his contract that he had to bulk up. And so, like, he went on this huge exercise regimen and really just bulked up for the part. I didn’t notice so much. Like, I feel like I subtly noticed, but the filmmakers say if you’re watching, you can tell that his body is drastically different in different parts of the movie Yeah.  Because they shot it out of sequence, and he has 1 shirtless scene where he’s just in a towel. And they saved that to shoot at the very end because they knew that was their money shot, and they want him to wanted him to be as ripped as he could possibly be in that shot. And he is. Yeah. And he looks fantastic. You know, it’s it’s interest I would have just thought that this was some pretty boy actor.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  And I would have been fine with that. But apparently, you know, it was very character driven. They wanted him to work for this body and he did.

Todd:  Well, it served him well because a couple years after this movie, he played, the beast in the Disney’s, live action Beauty and the Beast.

Craig:  Mhmm. Mhmm.

Todd:  So, and yeah. He looks great in there. And then since then, he’s been on Legion, the TV series, which I I kind of recognized him from. I don’t watch the show, but I’ve seen, like, clips from it and stuff like that. Right. And yeah. I mean, this guy’s this guy’s working. He’s Yeah.  He’s been doing, like, 5 or 6 projects a year for a long time. Oh, yeah. So and he’s a great actor and he’s

Craig:  great in this. He is. He’s really good. And he’s he’s good not only in the fact that he looks really good. I mean, that’s a bonus.

Todd:  Oh, he’s a great actor.

Craig:  He is. And he can do some really subtle things with his facial expressions, and I don’t know. You know, I’m sure it was part character choice, part directorial choice, but they said anytime you see him in close-up, he almost never blinks. And they they did that intentionally to highlight that there was something off about him. Something may be superhuman to some extent. And and I and I noticed. And, it it it’s effective. It’s creepy.  It’s unsettling.

Todd:  Well, and you know, you notice almost a little too much. I don’t know. I the movie just is very bold in the way that it it just throws all its cards on the table. And I feel like maybe that’s maybe this is 1 of the things that throws me off a little bit about Adam Wingard and Ty West and their style is that their movies take some pretty big risks and they are pretty bold and they just do lay it out there. And usually, it works for them, but it’s a little jarring for me. You know, I sort of expect the filmmakers to pretend a little bit, like, to drop little bread crumbs instead of just from the very beginning like, this guy’s bad and we’re gonna make it obvious to you that this guy’s bad from the very beginning. You know? Usually movies at least pretend that they’re gonna string you along and slowly reveal to you just how bad they are.

Craig:  I actually kinda liked that about this movie because I felt like we were a step ahead of the other characters in the movie. We get the impression right away that there’s something off about him. But I also believed that he was charismatic enough to fool the characters. And so, I was just kind of waiting for him to reveal himself, or for them to pick up on the little things. I don’t know. It it worked for me that we were a step ahead, of the other players. But, you know, I I get what you’re saying.

Todd:  I mean, it’s just economical, you know, just it’s just different, you know. It’s it’s very different and it’s what kinda made this movie a little different from, like, again, I just kind of think of like the hand that rocks the cradle and some of these other films where you even know going in. I mean, you’ve seen the previews, you know what kind of movie you’re going to see. But but usually it’s it’s done a little more slowly. In this way, it’s just kind of a matter of seeing how things unfold and figuring out his motivations and what’s going on. And you’re right. Everything else is quite realistic. The fact that the daughter it’s hard to say.  She’s maybe a little skeptical, but maybe just more disinterested. And as she expresses it to her boyfriend, Zeke.

Craig:  So that friend of your brother, is he sticking around?

Clip:  I don’t know. I hope not.

Craig:  Why? You said you liked him.

Clip:  I said he seemed nice. It’s not the same thing. I don’t not like him. It’s just I don’t know. I mean, you kinda knew Caleb. We’ve all I just know mom and dad have been trying to move on. It’s not like they don’t have enough reminders in this town. Guess we just don’t need a walking, breathing reminder of him right now, you know?

Todd:  But it’s interesting to see her also kind of turn around.

Craig:  She I mean, she ends up being taken by his charms. She’s going to a party. Anna’s going to a party, and the mom says you should take him. And she’s resentful. She doesn’t want to, but she does. And then at this party, you know, he plays it very cool. Like, he smokes weed with them, and he gets along well with her friends, especially, you know, 1 of her girlfriends that she works with. He stands up for her when her shitty boyfriend shows up or ex boyfriend shows up.  He smashes this guy’s head into the wall, like, within 30 seconds of meeting him, and gets him out of there. And then, of course, you know, that girl takes him in the back and bones him. I don’t think that Anna knows that. I think that she’s out of the room when that happens. And then Anna, you know, has a fight with her boyfriend, and you can just tell that she’s starting to look at him in a different way. And surprise, he’s super hot. Like, she’s a 20 something girl. I don’t know.  I assume he’s supposed to be in his twenties. It would be hard not to fall prey to his wiles, you know?

Todd:  If anything, it’s it’s inconceivable that it didn’t happen a little sooner.

Craig:  Right. Right. Right. But and he even, like, he’s I don’t know if it’s flirting exactly, but he’s being very charming with her. Like, he won’t allow her to drive because you’re stoned. And she says, well, you smoke Todd. And he’s like, yeah, but I’m bigger than you. And then he goes around and he opens the passenger side door for her.  And he, you know, listens to her talk about her boyfriend and why they’re fighting or whatever. And he says something like, well, if I had a girl like you at home

Todd:  I wouldn’t have gone off to war. Right. Right. It’s so corny. And But it works.

Craig:  And he’s like, oh, I really like your music. And she’s like, oh, yeah. It’s just a mix I made. And he’s like, well, I wish you’d make me 1 and put this song on it. Like like, they’re exchanging mixtapes like it’s 1996. Like

Todd:  I know. Right?

Clip:  Well

Craig:  It’s very it’s very flirtatious and and and charming. And then she she runs in, you know, at at some point, she has to go I don’t know if she has to go to work or she has to go somewhere or whatever, and she pounds on the bathroom door thinking her brother’s in there. And then he comes out in his towel slung really low around his hips and, you know. Yeah. Obviously, she appreciates his form, you know, like

Todd:  There’s steam coming out from the room behind him. It’s so funny. Right.

Craig:  But then weird things start happening. Anna does some research. She calls I don’t know, the military. I don’t know who you call when you call the military, but she calls them and asks about him. And the the the person that she’s talking to is on a computer, and an alert comes up on the computer right away. Contact the KPG.

Todd:  Is that

Craig:  what it was? Something like that. Some organization contact them immediately. And then you see these shots of, like, these, you know, shady government figures talking about him, and they’re like, no 1 can know that the subject is still alive. And all of that is kind of interesting, but it left me wanting an explanation that we never really get. Yeah. It’s just, you know, like, they’re after him. They know he’s dangerous, but we don’t really get an explanation of why.

Todd:  It even begs questions, like, that are never really answered and that maybe Caleb was a part of this too. Right?

Craig:  I think he I think he was.

Todd:  Well, yeah. It’s hard to say, really. But then Yeah. You know, I read something that said, well, no. This guy was was brought into this program after he suffered the injuries that maybe killed Caleb. You know, that they really, literally were he really was at his side. They both kinda suffered from this explosion or whatever. Caleb died, and and David survived, and he was brought into this program because of his, you know, his his injuries.  Apparently, these scenes were shot after. These scenes were added to the movie later to add a little bit more explanation. So in 1 hand, the test audiences thought there was a little too much explanation in some aspects. But then when you took all that out, they needed a little something else to because because the just the government agents suddenly showing up at this house later on, where they have this big fire fight later, was a little too abrupt. Like, people didn’t really know where it was coming from. Fair enough. So we get a little bit of introduction to them here earlier. And so and those those scenes, honestly, they do feel a little stuck in.  I don’t know what it is about them. Even though it it kinda makes sense to put them in the movie, There’s something about the tone or the pacing or maybe just the fact that we’ve had we’ve spent so much time with this family in this extremely domestic setting for so long that to suddenly jump us out to a government agency and bring this movie out to that world felt really unnatural. Yeah. You know?

Craig:  It reminds me it reminds me a little bit of Cabin in the Woods. You know, where you’ve got kind of this traditional horror movie going on, but then it keeps cutting back to this government agency who’s involved somehow. Yeah. I think that Cabin in the Woods does it much more seamlessly where, you know, you understand what the connection is, but it’s that abrupt shift in style and tone that reminds me of this a little bit.

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah.

Craig:  Todd David talks to, I think, a Craig dealer at the party or something is like, can you get me some guns? And he’s like, yeah. Sure. I know a guy. So David meets these guys in the desert, and the gun dealer is Ethan Embry. I love Ethan Embry. But, he’s got, like, this whole arsenal of, like, military grade weapons, and David’s like, I’ll take them all. And he’s like, oh, cool. Well, if you’ll take them all, I’ll cut you a deal.  And he’s like, oh, no. I’m not gonna pay for them. I’m gonna kill you. And then he does. He, just, you know, in cold blood kills both of them and takes all their money.

Todd:  Well, and he shoots the guy. This guy’s got this huge running start to to run away from him, and he calmly turns around and reloads the gun and and and turns back around, takes aim and is able to shoot this guy with a handgun, from so far away, it doesn’t even make sense. But, again, that kinda gives you this feeling that there’s something a little supernatural about him. Or once again, because we’ve seen those scenes with the government agents, maybe there’s more than just his body being able to, you know I mean, it’s it’s a little much. It’s Okay. So apparently, he can’t feel pain up anymore. He can’t feel empathy anymore. He he’s able to aim and shoot a gun from afar, like, in a way that Yeah.  Shouldn’t even be possible. At least. Right. You know, he’s super strong to be able to beat these people up without us, you know, got these split second reflexes. Everything about him just points like he’s freaking Robocop. I agree. It’s it’s intriguing the way the movie builds this up. You’re just seeing more and more and more of his talents And you’re wondering, is this even a man? The government agency thing at the by the end of the day, I feel like almost kind of like undercuts that a bit.  It’s like, oh, he’s just some government experiment, but I don’t know. I’m trying to say what I’m trying to say is it’s almost he’s, like, too good for government work.

Craig:  Nah. Good 1. No. I mean, I it’s you know, he’s a super soldier. Yeah. I I get that. We’ve seen that in movies before Todd. I mean, it’s not necessarily really believable in the real world, but it’s not like a new concept that we’ve never seen before.

Todd:  No. It’s not. But

Craig:  But, you know, just random things. He’s just off. And and you can tell, like, when in the first conversation that he had had with the dad, the dad had lamented about losing a promotion to somebody who was younger and less experienced, but who had a college degree. And we find out via a phone call that that guy and his girlfriend had been murdered in their home, and now the dad gets a promotion. So, you know, obviously David killed them, but it’s almost like he killed them in the service of the family. Yeah. So, you don’t really know what his motivations are. And he’s trying to help this kid, Luke.  They carve pumpkins together and, David’s like, your mom’s knife sucks. And he pulls out like a butterfly knife and carves it. And then he gives the knife to Luke and he says

Clip:  Never let anyone pick on you. Otherwise, you’ll carry it with you the rest of your life. And those kids at school, they’re bigger than you. Yeah. And bring a knife to school. They take it off you and beat you up. You go around their houses at night and burn them down with their families inside. What’s the worst they can do? Yeah.  Okay. Which I thought was pretty funny.

Craig:  But the kid, you know, kinda takes it to heart. And the next time that he does get bullied in school, he does fight back. It’s violent, and I was afraid that he was gonna pull that knife out and and stab the kid, but he doesn’t. But nonetheless, he gets expelled. But, again, weird, like, the mom and David come to the school

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  To talk to the principal. Like, why why would David go there? Why would he go in? Why would he even be allowed to go in? Like, that doesn’t even make any sense. But again, he’s got a great I love the this clip.

Clip:  You know, the kid, the 1 Luke hit in the face. What did he call Luke?  I don’t think that’s relevant to this conversation.

Craig:  Did

Clip:  he call him a faggot?  I believe that’s the word that was used. Yes. But that’s no excuse.  So that makes it a hate crime. What? A hate crime. And I’d like to know how many others have been perpetrated against her son under your watch. A gay student targeted with physical violence finally defends himself and you’re what? Suspending him?  We could consider suspension.  No. You couldn’t. I’ll be interested to see what the board makes of you when this is in front of the entire country. Not to mention our lawyers. Do you wanna sue them?  III don’t,  We’re suing you and the school board.

Craig:  He’s good. He’s very manipulative, and good at getting his way even in nonviolent fashion.

Todd:  Yeah. I mean, he’s he’s good mentally. He’s good physically. He’s yeah. He’s a Craig, crazy ass super soldier. Then he also frames, the girlfriend’s deadbeat boy the girl, Anna’s deadbeat boyfriend. He drops the gun in his van or whatever and then the police pull over the van, find the gun that killed, the gun dealer, and then the the cops go to his house and find out all the drugs he’s got, and he’s been dealing as well. So he says, I’m gonna be in jail for a while.  And so it’s like he’s trying to help this family in a way. He’s clearing the way for them. He’s helping out both the kid. He’s helping out Anna in a way that she wouldn’t really like, but she’s he’s getting this guy out of out of her way. He does all these things, but then the guys show up.

Craig:  The KPG or whatever?

Todd:  The KPG shows up at the house. Anna does some research. Right? She steals his phone and she looks through his phone numbers and decides she’s gonna try calling some of them, trying to get her brother involved to find things out. And so Luke does some investigation of his own and he kind of figures it all out.

Craig:  Yeah. And this was 1 of my favorite parts too because after David kind of, you know, saves his skin at school, Luke approaches him and says, because he’s got it all figured out, I know that you’re not really who you say you are. I know that you’re not really David, whatever the last name was that he gave. Meanwhile, I’m thinking, really? I didn’t know that. Who is he then? Yeah. And And he’s

Todd:  like, I know you killed these people, and I know you killed those people and all that. And he’s just rattled

Craig:  it up. Care.

Todd:  Then I don’t care. And he’s like, well, why do you think I would do that? He’s like, oh, I just figured it’s because you’re part of some government experiment. I mean, he just kind of, like, basically lays the whole thing out.

Craig:  He says, I’m not gonna tell anybody, and and David’s like, why not? He’s like, because you’re my friend. And, like, I I just thought that was really clever writing. Like, this kid who’s been bullied and who I’m sure has been, you know, it’s it’s been made clear that he doesn’t have any friends. Now, here’s this cool kick ass guy who’s got his back. You know, he doesn’t, so you killed my dad’s boss? I don’t care. I’m not gonna tell anybody because you’re my friend. And it’s kinda twisted, but at the same time, I bought it.

Todd:  Yeah. And it it ranches up the tension because you’re wondering how’s David gonna react to this. Is he is he gonna have to neutralize this kid too?

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  But he’s gotta keep him alive at least a little while longer to pump him for more information. He says like, well, who else knows? And, he says, well, I think my well, of course my sister. He’s like, and then and then she probably told her friend, who is the woman that he had helped earlier at the party. So, instantly now, Luke has put the family in danger. So now, it’s sort of the switch. Right? Now, he’s been helping the family all this time. Now, we’re a little worried that the family’s gonna gonna have to suffer some consequences because it’s more important that he keeps his secret.

Craig:  Right. And that that’s when the KPG or whatever shows up and everything, you know, it’s like his initiative just immediately switches. It’s no longer about taking care of this family. It’s about protecting himself. And that whole, you know, gunfight, again, I thought was great. I mean, it just looked aesthetically, it looked fantastic.

Todd:  Absolutely. That’s great.

Craig:  And there are several nods, to Halloween in this movie. But, you know, the mom is hanging sheets when the SWAT team or whatever they are shows up and, like, the sheets are blowing in the wind and they say they’re there for David. And the mom says, Oh, well, he just went inside. And then the sheet blows to the side to reveal him standing there with a laundry basket, you know, kind of like the Michael Myers reveal behind the sheets or whatever. And he runs inside and grabs his gun and there’s this huge firefight. And he gets inside and the mom is in there Todd and they end up in the same place and she says, You’re a liar. You lied to us. And he says something like, No, I Todd you the truth.  I really did know him and I really was there with him. But then she cries out to the other people, he’s here, and he just shoots her. Like, I I really didn’t see that coming.

Todd:  Well, what he says is he says your your son and I were part of the same program, And so he would understand what I have to do here. And he’s got a knife and he’s about to stab her and that’s when she screams out.

Craig:  Oh, that’s great.

Todd:  He just stabs her there. Yeah. I didn’t see that coming either. It was it was really sad. It was very much out of left field because this is just a minute after he starts actually apologizing. This is where it gets a little funny. Right? Is because in the middle of this firefight, he’s having this almost sincere conversation with her being all apologetic, like, I’m really sorry. I didn’t really mean for it to come to this and I didn’t mean to impose upon you you people.  And that’s the setup that makes it so jarring that he ends up stabbing her. And then, you know, he he manages to get out. He takes off in a truck, going down the road, flying down the road. And the father is coming towards him. He recognizes the father’s truck. So he buckles in and he rams this guy head on, which he knows is gonna pretty much kill him. And he walks around to the side of the door and shoots him point blank to finish the job.

Craig:  Which I still don’t really understand. I mean, at this point, is he just gonna have to take them all out just because they know about him now? I mean, is that Yeah.

Todd:  That’s it’s a little hazy. Right? And this is the explanation given by the the special agent whose name is Richard, and he’s played by a very, you know, very recognizable,

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  Character actor named, Lance Reddick, major carver. He’s he’s he’s decent in this film. He he’s, you know, improbably kind of last man standing in all these fire fights for a while. And he goes after him. And I think at some point, he manages to grab Anna before David can. And so in the car he explains everything to her. Again, a little improbably, because aren’t they supposed to be keeping this a secret?

Craig:  I know. I just have written down exposition. I don’t remember what it is. So you’re gonna have to fill me in.

Todd:  Yeah. I mean, once again, it’s like his whole the whole motivation for them doing what they’re doing is to try to cover this up. So I’m not sure why he’s telling this 20 year old girl in the car everything that’s going on. But he basically says that David was part of the super secret program, and he had this injury. And, after the injury, they he he agreed to undergo this treatment or this whatever, the super secret deal that gave him, like, a new spine, the metal spine, and made him invincible. And they also had targeted him because of his empathy, like, specifically because he was such a nice guy. But something about whatever they did to him actually eliminated his empathy. And they say he said it’s in he’s programmed.  He said basically, this guy’s programmed to neutralize, any knowledge of him or KPG or the company or the program. The idea is it’s a sort of a Manchurian Candidate kinda thing, where now that switch has been flipped in his brain that, other people know and now he’s gotta go around and kill all the people who could possibly know. It’s a real jarring switch. And I maybe that’s what feels a little off about the movie to me is you have this clever, sinister, deceptive, superhuman guy who’s worming his way into the family in these really smart ways and really manipulating. And then for the last part of the movie, the switch that’s been flipped in his head and now he’s just gotta go around and kill everybody come what may. Which leads Right. To scenes like him going into the diner and he sees Kristen, who is, Anna’s girl a friend.

Craig:  The the girl he slept with at the party. Right?

Todd:  Yeah. And he says, where’s Anna? And she’s, I don’t know. He he left with she she just left. Well, she actually left with that agent. And he says, okay. And he just whips out the gun and shoots her right there in the middle of the entire diner and then pops back out to the car, comes back in and tosses in 2 grenades to blow up presumably everybody else in there and, and the diner itself. So he he just gets real sloppy all of a sudden, you know? Now it’s like I don’t even care. That’s that’s where the movie took a strong tonal shift for me, and was just a little jarring.

Craig:  Well, I I agree with you, because he’s not nearly as, skillful in the last act as he has been before. I mean, he takes out an entire bar in act 1, and then in act 3, he gets taken down by a teenager.

Todd:  But Yeah. That’s true.

Craig:  I I do like the, set piece for the final act. You know, this this whole showdown takes place at this Halloween dance. Anna finds Luke and tells him about David, and he’s like, no. It doesn’t make any sense. David would never hurt us. He’s our friend. And she says, well, he killed mom and dad. Oh.  No. Oh, okay then. And so, you know, it becomes kind of this chase through this Halloween dance, which I love. I mean, it’s all black lights and decorations and

Todd:  It’s a haunted maze. It’s like they have to go through a haunted house just to get into this dance.

Craig:  Right. Which is fun. Yeah.

Todd:  It’s cool

Craig:  concept. It’s really fun to watch. And, like, the Halloween 3 masks are projected all over the walls and stuff. That was pretty cool. It’s just basically a chase. Like David is is looking for Luke and Anna. I I feel like he kills some random guy along the way. Yeah.  But, Luke has his knife ready. And at 1 point, you know, when David is coming, Anna has a gun and she shoots him, but she just, hits him in the shoulder. And then David, he gets her and he is, like, choking her. Right? But then Luke stabs him? It seems like that’s kind of the end of it. Like, it’s they they think he’s dead.

Todd:  Yeah. Well, he he stabs him and and he swings around, and then I think it either Anna grabs a knife or he’s got the knife still and stabs him flat in the chest, like, right in the heart. Right.

Craig:  Right. Yes.

Todd:  And this is, again, where a little bit of more of the comedy comes in because he falls backwards. It also happens to be, like, the graveyard scene of the of the gym or whatever, which is interesting. But then he just looks up at them and he’s, like You did the right thing.

Clip:  I don’t blame you.

Todd:  Mhmm. It’s kinda funny. Again, a little off, but these guys do this kinda thing. And so, I was, you know, I was ready for it. But, yeah. So he he collapses. He’s he’s dead. I mean, his eyes are open and he’s laying there, and he’s got a knife in his heart, and there’s blood and all that stuff.  And the next scene we see is, you know, is the aftermath. It’s all the ambulances and the cops and people pulling bodies out and gurneys and stuff like that, you know. And and Anna and Luke are sitting consoling each other in the back of a ambulance and they’re watching the people come and go and out comes a fireman or a person in a fireman’s outfit with a limp just like David had Mhmm. Because he had injured his leg earlier. And he turns and he looks at her and you can see clearly through the mask that it’s him. Mhmm. And it just closes in on her face and she goes, what the fuck?

Craig:  And then that’s it. That’s it. Right?

Todd:  Yeah. The Credits. Really? Okay.

Craig:  I I liked it. I I thought it was, you know, it’s that was funny. Yeah.

Todd:  Very funny. The only way to end a movie like this on a zinger, right, is to do this. It it’s, I don’t know. You know, I like I said, it’s a perfectly fine serviceable movie. I enjoyed watching it. There were times in which I really wanted to know what was going on and and how this was gonna unfold. There were times when it felt a little false. There were tonal shifts in the movie that were a little jarring and a little weird.  And I think, like I said, this is what I kinda get from these guys’ movies a little bit, is they’re just bold to do these things. And it’s not like it’s bad. It’s not like it doesn’t work for some people. It’s just not typical, I guess I should say. And that’s not necessarily a criticism. It just, was something that was blatantly apparent to me as I watched it and and doesn’t always settle well with me. Maybe I’m just a traditional, like, I kinda like stories to be a certain way. Maybe that’s my problem.  I don’t know.

Craig:  I thought that the movie had excellent production value.

Clip:  Yes.

Craig:  You know, I thought that it was shot really well. The fight scenes and the gun showdown scenes, I thought were excellent. The acting all around, I thought was good. Yeah. Quite good, actually. I I really liked the score and the soundtrack. It had a lot of stuff going for it. You know, the actor, Dan Stevens, was really pretty to look at for the whole movie.  And so my partner and I both enjoyed that aspect of it. I don’t really have any criticism of it. I just didn’t love it. I just thought it was alright. I would never discourage anybody from seeing it. I think other people might appreciate it more than I did. I mean, it’s got good action. I felt like the whole single white female mysterious dangerous character was a little cliched.  But Yeah. So what? So is, you know, 75% of the stuff that we watch.

Todd:  And I didn’t mind that. You know, like you say, it did feel a little cliched, and it did feel a little predictable. And, like, okay, he’s gonna befriend her. And, oh, here’s a problem with this kid. He’s gonna solve that. You know, you don’t know how it’s gonna happen, but you kinda know this is the direction it’s gonna go. I think the questions that are left unanswered are maybe the most frustrating thing about the movie

Craig:  Yeah. Agreed.

Todd:  Just like Agreed. Why did he even do any of this in the first place? Why did he go to this family and try to solve their problems? I I just Yeah. Don’t get that at all. And I still don’t get it even at the end. And the end is just even a little more confusing, like, okay. So now he’s almost completely invincible dude. Is he just gonna walk away? Are we setting it up for a potential sequel? You know what? Yeah. And so so it left me with a little bit of that feeling, although I was very entertained by the movie.  I agree with everything you said. But it was just yeah. It didn’t have that satisfying at the end of it.

Craig:  But again, I would still recommend it. If you haven’t seen it, it it’s it’s totally worth an evening. Yeah.

Todd:  It is.

Craig:  It’s a totally serviceable action thriller horror film. It it there’s a lot of really good stuff going on.

Todd:  I agree. I agree. Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this 1, please share it with a friend. You can find us on Facebook. You can find our website. You can just search for us on Google, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. Find our Facebook page.  Leave us a message there. Find our, 2 guys at redfortynet.com where we have all of our back episodes. We’re in October now. If you know of any really good Halloween movies for us to do, it would be perfect this month. Leave us a comment at 1 of those 2 places and, we’ll consider it.

Craig:  Well and, you know, we got other good holidays coming up Todd. Thanksgiving and Christmas. We love some Christmas horror movies. If you’ve got any gems there, let us know about those too.

Todd:  Those are harder to find than the Halloween ones sometimes. And and even harder than either of those 2 are the Thanksgiving ones. Yeah.

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  Alright. Until next time. I’m Todd.

Craig:  And I’m Craig.

Todd:  With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.