Ginger Snaps (2000)

Episode 189, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Craig:  Hello and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig.

Todd:  And I’m Todd.

Craig:  And we’ve been going through some requests lately, and we’ve been having a lot of fun doing that. But when we were talking about what we wanted to do this week, I brought up something that we have had on our list forever. It just crossed my mind again lately, and I wanted to give it another look. And so this week, we are doing the year 2000 Ginger Snaps.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  Directed by John Fawcett. I picked this movie because I saw it a long time ago, probably, I don’t know, not long after it came out. I’ve I’ve told this story before. So long time listeners, you’ve heard this. You can just tone out for the next 30 seconds or whatever. But when I was doing my teaching internship, I was in another town. I didn’t know anybody and I’m not really the type to kinda go out on my own. So I spent a lot of time at home.  And so my mom bought me a gift card to the local video store. And every day, I would go and rent a new horror movie. And I think that this is 1 of the ones that I rented. I just remembered really enjoying it, and so I was looking forward to going back and seeing it again. And I have to say, I really wasn’t disappointed. Have you seen this before, Todd?

Todd:  Yeah. I had. Oh, several years ago started doing this deal during Halloween, where for the month of October, I would try to watch a horror movie at night and then write up a quick review of it and I would post it. And it was kind of an exercise for me, just an excuse to get to watch horror movies, kind of exercise my writing chops a little bit. This was before I had a son.

Craig:  And I

Todd:  had that kind of time. And, I went back and I was like, I’m pretty sure I watched this. And I went back and looked at my reviews and sure enough, I had. And I glanced through it real quick and realized it was pretty glowing. So I was really looking forward to getting back to it, this time around. It’s been probably 4 or 5 years. Certainly Todd disappointed either. I was really happy to watch this movie again.  It was actually, it was cool because I didn’t really remember it well enough to not be surprised by what was happening. That was 1 thing I actually wrote in my review at that time. I said, this plot is just, unpredictable. You really don’t know where it’s going to go. And that was 1 thing I think I really enjoyed about this movie the first time I saw it. And it struck me again the second time I saw it.

Craig:  I actually was surprised by how much I remembered it, watching it again this time around. And I guess that’s a good thing, you know. It made an impression on me. It’s a werewolf movie. And, you know, I like werewolf movies fine. It’s not like if somebody said what’s your favorite genre of horror, I would say, oh, werewolf movies. But you know, I like them fine. But I just think this 1 is really clever because it uses the whole werewolf experience as kind of a metaphor for coming of age, specifically for women.  You know, puberty and the cyclical nature of, menstruation kind of goes along well with the monthly nature of the whole werewolf or like andthrope experience. And I just thought it was really clever. Things are changing, your body is changing, you’re growing hair in weird places, you’re getting moody, you’re, you know, you’re getting moody. Yeah. You’re, you know, experiencing all these different urges and desires that you didn’t have before and really it makes a lot of sense, as a metaphor. And it plays well as a metaphor in this movie, while at the same time, really just still being a straight up werewolf movie.

Todd:  Yeah. The interesting thing about werewolves as a monster, as a story, as a myth, is that it’s really different, I think, from a lot of the others. It first of all, it’s this monster within. Right? You can walk around during the day, presumably, you know, being normal and you just hide this terrible secret inside. So there’s this element of, of this hidden secret. There’s this self control aspect to it as well. Like, nobody who is a werewolf, like, really wants to be 1. Right? At least Mhmm.  I haven’t really seen anybody take it another way. They just they just are and it’s something they have to deal with. And so, there’s kind of this emotional aspect to it as well. This internal turmoil like, kinda like you said, like, where this this can also be cyclical with a person and they’re going through urges and things like that. Well, all of us every day have kind of an inner part of ourselves that we kind of keep hidden from people, you know. An inner monster, if you will. And so it’s, you know, it’s about keeping that secret hidden. And then, of course, you can’t control it and, every full moon or whatever, you come out and you’re gonna transform.  Or every night or whatever the, you know, the story’s gonna be. But then, once the person’s a werewolf, they’re just a freaking wolf, usually. You know, in these stories. Mhmm. It’s not like they’re half human, half wolf. I mean, you’ve seen some stuff like that with the wolf man and whatnot. But in general, the sort of werewolf stories kind of keep with that. And so, you’re a little limited at that point what you can do with the monster.  Right? You’re not gonna talk to the werewolf. The werewolf’s not gonna have some intelligent conversation with somebody. It’s it’s just a wolf running around hunting people. And then in the morning, in a lot these movies, it’s like, oh Todd, what did I do last night? I can’t even remember. You know?

Craig:  Right. So it’s an It’s like college. It’s like

Todd:  It’s exactly like college. Right. So, I mean, in in a way the genre’s a little limited. Like, it can spend a lot of time with the human and the human aspect of it. But once it gets to Werewolf, you don’t have a lot of room for drama and, I don’t know. It’s not like a vampire movie where there’s this seductive nature, where the monster is, you know, stalking you and and it’s it’s talking with you and kind of, like, worming his way in. It’s not like the zombie thing where, you know, you transform into a zombie and that’s it and, you know, they’re just kind of mindlessly going at things. I think they’re just with werewolf movies in general, there’s a lot more of this sort of drama rather than horror aspect to it because okay.  Then they turn into wolf. There’s something horrible that happens. They can’t control. And then in the morning, they’ve gotta deal with whatever happened. Right? It’s kinda how the how the stories go. And so, like, with this movie, I even even when you go to IMDB, it calls it like a drama fantasy. Todd doesn’t even call it a horror movie, which is pretty stupid. I mean, it’s definitely a horror movie.

Craig:  Oh, yeah.

Todd:  But it’s true that there’s a lot more drama in here. It’s a lot more about the relationship of these 2 sisters and how they’re dealing with this change that slowly comes over her. And like you said, it’s a perfect metaphor for, heck, just take out Werewolf and 1 sister’s getting older faster than the other.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  They’re they’re drawing apart. 1 the the younger sister doesn’t know how to deal with the older 1. And the older one’s having a really hard time coping with her emotions and and handling all this other stuff. And so, there’s all this tension within them, within their families, and between their friends. And so it’s great. Set it in a high school where all this crap’s happening all the time. It’s a pretty good formula for taking this werewolf story and and making something really interesting out of it.

Craig:  Yeah. I think so Todd. And I think that that’s why this movie works so well is the relationship between these 2 sisters. The premise, of the movie is, you’ve got these 2 sisters, Bridget and Ginger. And another reason that I love this movie is because I love both of these actresses. You’re right. Bridget is played by, Emily Perkins, who has done a ton of stuff, but I always remember her. She was Bev in miniseries of It.

Todd:  Young Bev. Yeah.

Craig:  And and yeah. And that was such a big movie in in my childhood that III love her. And then, Ginger is played by Katherine Isabelle, who Todd, really I mean, this was 2,000. It’s at this point a long time ago. But, today, Katherine Isabelle really has established herself in the industry, particularly in horror. She’s been in a lot, a lot. But she was in Freddy versus Jason. She played the title role in American Mary, which was a super, super dark, dark movie.  But I thought that she was just spectacular in it. I almost looked it up, I didn’t. I probably should just to be safe, but I didn’t look up how old she was in this movie. But she’s sexy. She’s a very sexy girl. She’s got a beautiful feminine figure, but she’s also got, you know, just a really interesting face. These 2 play these death obsessed, early aughts goth kind of sisters. Yeah.  And it could have come across as so cliched, but I think that these actresses are good enough that it comes across to me as genuine. Yeah. Did you feel that way?

Todd:  I did. And you’re right. I was so worried it would be cliche, you know. You’re really kind of on guard against that. But it comes across so naturally the way that they do it. And I think the writing has a has a bit to do with it as well. The writing doesn’t delve into that roll your eyes territory. But also the delivery is fantastic.  And, I mean, of course, you gotta give credit to the director for it as well. But, yeah, you’re right. The relationship is the core in which this movie’s based. And if that ever felt false, it would totally fall apart. And here, I never it never felt false. And even, you know, high school is like that anyway. We all put on people run the gamut of putting on these personas. Don’t they? I mean, we have our friends who were totally You’re

Craig:  searching for yourself.

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. You know, and so, I mean, even that, there’s some leeway there for that as well. These girls, they run around and they take pictures of of each other in gory situations, like, they’ve just Todd. Like, under the backs of the of a car in the driveway, or with a pitchfork through their neck, or something like that. They stage these scenes and then they end up showing it to their class as part of a class project or whatever. Sort of horrifies their teacher, but everybody else is, like, wow. That’s that’s pretty incredible.  That they’re known as the weird kids at school.

Craig:  Well, that that’s the thing. In the beginning, the movie makes it sound like they are literally planning their own suicide.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  And, they they have this pact where they say they’re gonna be out by 16 or dead on the scene, but together forever. And that’s the big part. Like, we’re it’s us against the world.

Clip:  I’m slitting my throat. You should definitely hang. Maybe even your final moments are cliche around here. Not ours. But ours will rock. You don’t think our deaths should be a little more than cheap entertainment? You jazzed me on this. Don’t whistle now. It’s the idea of everyone staring at me just lying there.  I mean, what if they just laugh? They’ll be in awe. Be suicide’s like the ultimate you. Come on, it’s so us.

Craig:  And as it turns out, they’re not really planning their suicide. They’re just shooting these photographs. And so after, you know, this brief introduction to them, then we get the opening credits against the backdrop of these fake death shots. And I just thought the art direction in these photographs was amazing. Yeah. Like, they were so good. Really? Like, it’s morbid and horrible, but so skillfully done. Like, I was just so impressed from the get go.

Todd:  It’s a good intro to these girls. And I guess I was reading on, IMDB that they had Todd that they shot all this kind of in a day or 2 on location in some house, in some neighborhood. And, they ran around the different places like the backyard, and the front yard, and the garage, and the inside the house, and used the basement of the house to change into new clothes, and do makeup and what not. And and somebody had to usher the 4 year old girl who’s lived at that house like away when they were doing some of these things. And they were a little worried they were gonna disturb the neighbors by shooting all these gory little scenes. Mhmm. But but, you know, for for something that was again put together so quickly, it comes across really well. And it’s a good intro to these girls.  It’s a good intro to their personality. It sets a really creepy tone to the movie. Mhmm. But the movie never gets that dark. It has the promise of being a super dark movie, like, what we just saw May not long ago, which is Mhmm. Extremely dark. This movie doesn’t Todd doesn’t approach at all. In fact, it it really veers into the comedic black comedy, more or less, in many ways.  And I think even these seem darkly comedic. If you saw these photos just as, if they’re presented as crime scene photos, they’d be horrible. But they’re these girls and you know what’s going on. And then in between showing the photos, they’re showing, like, a few, like, videos of them setting up the scenes and, like, hurry up and take the picture. This is uncomfortable. Stuff like that. And so it lends a playfulness to it as well. I think it does a good job of setting a tone a good tone for the movie.

Craig:  Yeah. And, you know, something you said, it it gets into the darkly comedic. I wanna talk about the plot night. I took so many notes because I was just enjoying it so much. But that was 1 of the things that I really liked about the movie. Like, I feel like it starts out kind of dark and and you have this certain expectation, and then when it gets maybe about halfway through, maybe a little less, maybe a little more, it does go for a little bit of the black comedy, but I never felt like the tone was uneven. Like it just worked for me. It balanced the darkness with some humor.  And then also the relationship between the 2 girls is kind of a beautiful thing. They’re so close and their bond is so strong. And when you see that being threatened and weakening, it tugged at my heartstrings. Mhmm. And and I really liked that difference in tone throughout.

Todd:  Yeah. I see the comedy as as just arising naturally from the situation, you know. As the plot gets more and the situation gets more absurd, then it’s like the movie acknowledges the absurdity of the situation. Like, you know, people in real life might eventually kind of like, oh my Todd, now this, you know, sort of sort of moments, you know, when you’re faced with this just escalating series of more and more ridiculous things that are going on. I don’t mean ridiculous as an implausible. I just mean ridiculous as an it just goes everywhere though. Like, the plot just goes in so many different directions, and that just escalates out of control for both of these girls by the end of the movie that at some point somebody’s gotta look at it and crack a joke, you know? Right.

Craig:  Right. Right. Well, there are a couple of things going on. First of all, they live in this small town called Bailey Downs and, you know, we see the sign, like the town sign that says, a safe and caring community or whatever. But they think that there’s a wild animal on the loose, because people’s pets keep showing up mangled and dead. So that’s going on in the backdrop. Meanwhile, Ginger is changing. She’s getting boobies.  Her back hurts. Boys are starting to notice her. And so it sets it up immediately that she’s becoming a woman. They make a point of saying that for both of these young women, Bridget and Ginger, they’re both late in this transitional part of their life. Ginger is supposed to be 16 and Bridget is supposed to be 15. And neither of them has had their 1st menstrual cycle yet. And so, this is when Ginger is going through it for the first time. Meanwhile, they’re dealing with the things that everybody, I think girls especially, deal with in school where boys are ogling them and other girls are picking on them.  They play field hockey a lot. Was this filmed in Canada? I don’t remember Yeah. I don’t remember playing field hockey a lot

Todd:  in high

Craig:  school, but that’s all they do.

Todd:  Definitely Canada. This is a Canadian production.

Craig:  And, Bridget gets tripped by, you know, the mean girl Trina, and she falls right into this corpse of this dead dog. That part was kind of funny to me because it’s like they’ve been playing field hockey for a long time, then all of a sudden she gets tripped into this dead dog. Like, they just didn’t notice that it was there.

Todd:  It’s completely mangled, ripped into 2 pieces, bloody dead dog in the middle of the field. Yeah. Right. Right. Uh-huh.

Craig:  And so to to get revenge, Trina has this rottweiler. The sisters plan to steal it and set up a gruesome scene much like their pictures Todd make Trina think that her dog has been a victim to this beast, whatever it is. So they’ve got that plan. Then there’s a popular boy, I guess, Jason, who is showing interest in Ginger. We also meet the girl’s parents. Their dad is so absent. Like, he’s just vacant, and and really, like, not even a character at all. Like, he’s just there to, like, nod.

Todd:  The bee

Craig:  But their mom is played by Mimi Rogers.

Todd:  And she’s great.

Craig:  Yeah. She really is really she brings something interesting to a character that I think could have been so boring and stupid, but she plays it well. I I, you know, I found myself caring for her and being intrigued by her motivations and things too.

Todd:  For sure. And she just, again, struck the right balance of being this kinda, I don’t wanna say wacky, but just this, overly sincere mother who’s very interested in her daughters, and but but also, like the mothers of most teenagers, is is not gonna be able to help much. Because the teenagers are constantly rolling their eyes at her. You know, she’s from another era. How could she possibly really relate to us and what we’re going through now? Even though she is sincerely trying to help in so many ways. You know, just to jump ahead. I just There’s just 1 scene that’s perfect perfectly exemplifies this and that’s when the 1 daughter she’s trying to hide a body and Yeah. The mom is just to the verge of discovering it when the daughter thinks of the only thing that she can think of that’s gonna distract the mother and divert her attention for the body she’s about to look at, and that is, what do boys want, mom?

Craig:  Which is Yeah.

Todd:  The kind of question their mom has been begging to answer for them through the whole movie. Like, if you

Clip:  need anything just talk to me. If you want anything I’m here. You’re going through all these changes, you know, and I just want you to know I’m there for you and I’m

Todd:  here to talk. In the next scene, she’s sitting down there, she’s got a plate of cookies and 3 glasses of milk and sitting on the sofa.

Clip:  Well, that’s what men want. Some of them might seem cool or different, but they’re all pretty much the same. Totally. Thanks for sharing. Oh, honey. That’s what we’re here for. Yeah. Bedtime.  It’s a school night.

Todd:  Meanwhile, the other 2 are, like, staring at the floor like it’s the most painful experience of their lives trying to sit at the earliest.

Craig:  There are so many good parts with her. And, like, she’s so put together, but, like, in such a silly way, like, her hairstyles are silly, but, you know, every hair is in just the right place. And she’s just kind of this picture perfect mom. And there’s 1 point, like, where they’re having dinner and there’s a huge ham on the table. And I’m like, my Todd, you’re having a ham for dinner? Like, there’s only 4 of you, and you cooked a whole ham? And then they showed the dad, and the dad’s eating fried chicken. Like, what?

Todd:  Dude, I didn’t even notice that.

Craig:  That’s funny. And and there’s a part where the mom is trying once Ginger starts changing even more, there’s a part where the mom tries to intervene and Bridget says to her, no, mom. Ginger really likes it that you let us figure things out for ourselves. And it’s like the mom is so touched. She’s like, oh, I’m so glad you guys noticed. Like, like, that’s like, that’s her that’s how she’s decided to parent, to just kind of take this hands off approach. You know, just they’ll figure it out, you know. Good job, Mimi Rogers.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  I was impressed with her. Anyway, the girls go out to do this prank. Before they get there, they’re in a park and they stumble upon another dead dog and they comment, like, it it too is a rottweiler. And Ginger’s like, Oh great, well now we’ll have a body that will freak Katrina out even more. And they go to pick it up, but it’s totally like dismembered and so they can’t, but they, they know that it is still warm. Bridget says to Ginger, you got some on you. And we get a shot of Ginger’s thighs and blood running down her thighs. And she says, oh shit, I just got the curse.  Which I thought was just such a clever line.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  You know, like, because people really call it that. Mhmm. But it matches up so well with that idea of werewolfism, lycanthropy, whatever you wanna call it. And then immediately, Ginger is attacked by something and dragged off. Brigitte is hearing her scream and she’s running around trying to find her, but she can’t find her. And eventually, Ginger reappears and they they start trying to run together, but she’s immediately, attacked again, and she’s just being horribly mauled. It’s a wolf. I mean, it’s a werewolf.  Yeah. She beats she beats at it with her Polaroid camera on a strap, and gets it to go away momentarily. The camera goes off, and they go off running, and they run across the street, and the wolf is in pursuit, but it gets hit and killed by this drug dealer’s van. You know, we’ve seen this drug dealer before, but we don’t really know him yet. We get to know him later. They go back home, and, Ginger is terribly wounded, but she doesn’t want Bridget to tell anybody. She doesn’t wanna go to the hospital. And she says, it’s okay.  I already feel better. And her wounds are already healing. Yep. Really super quickly. And when Ginger cleans herself up and goes to sleep, Bridget, like, pries the Polaroid out of her camera and she sees the picture of the wolf. And from this point on, Ginger starts changing. But that’s when I think that the movie is particularly clever because all these changes that she goes through, growing hair in weird places, being moody, having this new bleeding, having this, you know, new found interest in things that she wasn’t interested before, carnal interests like lust, All of it could be explained by puberty. Yep.  Mhmm. It also could be explained by becoming a werewolf. But you know, the much more logical conclusion would be that she’s just she’s becoming a woman. I just thought it was so clever.

Todd:  Yeah. It’s really clever. It it is. And then a lot of this the the movie what takes it in directions that I wasn’t expecting and what makes it kind of unpredictable is its insistence on focusing on these 2 girls relationships. You know, a movie like this could just be this woman’s slow turn into a werewolf and her having to deal with it. And it’s a fairly predictable path that it’s soon gonna become unmanageable for her and there are gonna be more and more killings, it’s gonna be harder for her to hide, and blah blah blah. But in this case, it really the film really gets grounded in the relationship between these 2, and it’s like, here’s the 1 girl who’s not going through werewolfism or puberty, who’s feeling left behind. You know, it’s kind of a little bit of that tension we see in, you know, like, Something Wicked This Way Comes where these 2 really close friends Right.  Really close in age. And 1 is afraid of being left behind. And and her sister who’s going through this, at the same time, she can’t relate to it and she can’t cope with it. And she kind of hates to see that she’s interested in guys all of a sudden. And before, they used to make fun of other people, make fun of these guys and and these these, what they say, sluts and whatever like that. And now, she sees her sister making out with this dude, you know, hot and heavy in the middle of the day and, you know, on the side of a car. This could just be her going through puberty and we get the same kind of drama. Right? So it’s, it’s really interesting in that way and that’s what keeps the plot interesting is because the younger sister really becomes very protective of her and is really trying to solve the problem.  She she kinda catches on fairly early as to what’s going on because she meets up with a guy who was driving a van. He’s like the local drug dealer. He doesn’t go to the school, but you know, he’s a younger guy. He’s probably in his twenties. And he’s the 1 who hits the wolf, destroys it, I guess, destroys the wolf. That’s the idea that we get. He seeks her back out because he’s kinda curious as to what this thing was.

Clip:  See, I flatten an animal. Furry, all fours, could be anything. But here I am thinking, I can throw. Oh, that’s crazy, Look me into the rubber motel. I’m officially all fucked up. Right? What if you’re not? Well, that would explain the human circumcised dick and why you’re running for your life from it.

Todd:  And so they kind of form this little alliance as, the younger sister gets more and more worried about Ginger. They kind of band up a little bit to try to find ways to cure her. So there’s that aspect of the movie going on, at the same time Ginger is slowly trying to deal with things on her own.

Craig:  Right. And she does start to go through changes. And and like, she’s bleeding heavily. So they go talk to the nurse and the nurse just talks to them about periods. It’s kind of a darkly comedic in the vein of Heather’s scene, but I mean that’s the logical explanation.

Clip:  Yeah. A thick, syrupy, voluminous discharge is not uncommon. The bulk of the uterine lining is shed within the first few days. Contractions, cramps, squeeze it out like a pump. In 3 to 5 days you’ll find lighter bright red bleeding that may turn to a brownish or blackish sludge which signals the end of the flow.  Okay. So it’s all normal.  Very. Expected every 28 days, give or take, for the next 30 years.

Craig:  I I just thought the balance of the natural and the supernatural, like, the the natural and the supernatural, like, the lady could have been talking about either. It doesn’t really make any difference. It’s just this is what is happening and they’re both disturbed by it. Yeah. And it’s

Todd:  impossible to stop. Right? Right. Yeah. Right. So anyway, what Ginger does is just sort of a series of things. She ends up getting together with this Jason guy, and they have unprotected sex, in the back of the car, which turns out to be pretty bad for him because then he starts to exhibit these werewolf tendencies, but in a more much more sickly and panicky fashion. You know, this movie is really good from a female perspective. For once, the women in this movie are strong and they’re kind of in control Yeah.  Or they’re trying to get in control. They’re not painted as helpless victims. From a feminist perspective, I think this movie really, is clever. You know, even when she’s having sex with him in the back, seat of the car, she starts to get a little a little aggressive with him. And of course, it’s her werewolf tendency coming out. But once again, it could just be her. Like, who she is. Yeah.  And he says, woah woah Todd on. She’s like, what? Is it? Am I too strong for you? And he’s like, look, I’m the man here. And that pisses her off and she pins him down and says, oh, you’re the man, And she just starts tearing into him. And I thought, well, hell yeah. You know, this is this is good. Right? It’s a good subversion of these, tired tropes and, stereotypes that we have. And then, at the end of it, it’s the movie’s quite clever because we kind of think that maybe she ripped this kid apart and killed him.

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  It’s so smart, like she goes to the home and she’s like, in in the bathroom throwing up and the sister comes in and discovers her and she’s

Craig:  covered with blood. Yeah.

Todd:  And she’s like, oh, I did, you know, I did it and whatever. And she’s like, oh, you’re kidding me. Where is where is he? And she says, next door. And the sister looks over the edge of the fence and then you realize they’re talking about the dog. She attacked the neighbor’s dog afterwards.

Craig:  Right. The little yappy dog. Norman. But the the other thing that and and you’ve already alluded to it, but that’s 1 of the things. You know, Ginger’s going through these changes and, like, on the 1 hand, at some points, she looks kind of rough. It’s kind of, you know, maybe a heightened version of like acne or skin problems or whatever that It’s not over the top that you notice that she’s not looking as good as she did before. But then, immediately after that, she starts to embrace her sexuality. Whereas before, she always dressed in these big baggy

Todd:  clothes. Doctor. Yes.

Craig:  Now, she’s wearing these tight fitting clothes. And like I said, she’s got a beautiful figure. And people are taking notice. It’s almost like she, you know, the first day she dresses sexy, she walks in and she’s a little bit nervous about it for a second until she starts getting all this attention. And then it’s like, yeah, bitch. Like That’s, like, that’s a fan stretch down the hall.

Todd:  That’s a fantastic shot. It’s exactly what you state, and it all happens in slow motion, and you see the change on her face in the span of maybe, I don’t know, 12 paces. Mhmm. But it happens slowly and gradually and very skillfully. And it’s not just like that slow motion of people turning and woah kind of thing, but it’s the look on her face changing from, oh my Todd, I’m really stepping out here and doing something new Todd, yeah, this is alright. This is me, you know, this is the new me. Yeah. It’s really, really good.

Craig:  Yeah. But along with these, you know, normal growing up changes, she’s also changing in other ways. She’s the claw marks on her shoulder are particularly hairy, and she’s concerned about that. And she’s growing a tail, which is problematic.

Todd:  And that’s and that’s kind of how, like, this this messes a little bit with the our typical werewolf legend is that she’s slowly transforming. It’s not like full moon comes out and this girl’s gonna be a 100%. Well, maybe I think the notion is that she’s slowly transforming over time. So that by the time that full moon day hits, she will be 100% werewolf. Instead of Right. You’re normal all the time with this terrible secret inside. And then when the full moon comes out and the clouds part, you know, suddenly you undergo this 5 minute transformation. So Right.  She’s gotta hide all these things too. Right? What to deal with? So so funny. I love I love that scene where they’re taping her tail. Her sister is literally taping her tail to her legs so that she can hide it underneath her her shorts while she’s out playing, field hockey.

Craig:  Yeah. And I thought I thought that was maybe a little nod to the boys. Like, boys go through changes during this time too.

Clip:  And sometimes things just pop up and you gotta find

Todd:  That’s right.

Craig:  That’s why that’s why elastic waistbands in your underwear are your friend in high school.

Todd:  That’s so true. Also also very difficult to hide at times.

Craig:  Right. Oh.

Todd:  Dude.

Craig:  But all this time, Bridget is is trying to solve this problem. At this point, it seems like Ginger, she kinda sees this as being problematic, but at the same time she’s enjoying some aspects of it

Todd:  Todd. Yeah.

Craig:  So she’s not particularly concerned about fixing it. Bridget is trying to fix it, and she is working with drug dealer Sam, and they talk about, you know, silver purifying the blood. And so he gives her a pure silver earring, and they pierce Ginger’s belly button with it in a somewhat erotic scene. Mhmm. It like, I kind of equate it to getting a tattoo. Like, it hurts, but it’s almost like, hurts so good. Like but that ends up not working. But he also tells them about monkshood because, you know, he’s a drug dealer, so he understands, like, pharmaceuticals.  Yes.

Todd:  He’s the local neighborhood pharmaceutical distributor.

Craig:  Right. I guess the next big thing that happens is Trina, the mean girl, is ticked off because she’s into Sam the drug dealer and Sam the drug dealer appears to be showing interest in Bridget. And now, both of these sisters have guys after them and I guess it makes Trina jealous. So, while they’re playing field hockey again, Trina checks Bridget and and throws her on the ground. And, like, you see Ginger, and then you almost hear, like, a growl, like, come up inside her. And she just attacks Trina. They go and visit Sam and not only is Ginger changing physically, but her personality is changing too. She’s becoming much more seductive and aggressive to the point where she’s disregarding Bridget Todd some extent.  It seems like Bridget maybe, maybe, maybe not, it doesn’t really matter. But Sam’s kinda her guy, and Ginger seems to wanna kinda flirt with him a little bit too. After they visit him and he tells them about the monkshood and whatever, blah blah, Ginger is aggressive and so Bridget sends her home ahead of her. And when Bridget goes to go home, Trina is waiting at their house and she says, Give me back my dog. Your sister took my dog. I saw her do it. So they get into it, and they end up in the house, and Ginger’s there too. And Ginger’s being very aggressive like she might hurt Trina.  But then, actually, just by sheer accident, Trina slips and falls and hits her head on the counter and dies. Yeah. And they have to hide it and cover it up. And, like, their parents are coming home and there’s blood everywhere. And they very cleverly just make it look like it’s 1 of their gory death shoots.

Todd:  Yeah. And isn’t this interesting at this point in the movie? You would have expected the scene to go where Ginger would have killed her. Right? Yeah. But it turns out to be an accident. I mean, it took me by surprise that that that that we really weren’t willing to paint Ginger 100% as this kind of sort of murderous person yet. I don’t know. You know, it just would have been a natural escalation of the situation and the story to make that happen, but her death ends up being an accident. And so Ginger is still innocent of taking anything but a dog’s life at this point.  I don’t know. What did you think of that?

Craig:  Yeah. I don’t know. I thought that it it was an unexpected plot point. I expected Ginger to kill her because I was just waiting for that to happen. I felt like that was an inevitability that she was going to kill somebody and then they were gonna have to cover it up, which does eventually happen, but not yet. And that surprised me. I also loved this scene because again, I can’t say enough about Catherine Isabel. I think she’s fantastic.  I love that when she’s confronted by these moments and confronted by her parents, that she can just turn it on. Mhmm. Yeah. Like, sometimes, sometimes when she’s just talking to her mom, she’s very snarky, and very much just like a teenage girl. But in these moments where she has to cover for herself, she puts a big old smile on her face and she’s all of a sudden just, Hi mommy. You know, very endearing. Again, it’s entirely manipulative, but she does it so well. And so much is going on.  You know, 1 of the things that we haven’t mentioned much is that Ginger continues to evolve. Her, transformation is slow, but so good. Her nails start to become brittle. There are subtle changes in her face. Her teeth are sharpening and looking noticeably different. It is a little bit unbelievable that nobody really notices that. Yeah. Especially her parents.

Todd:  Well, and and she’s talking with kind of a lispy sound in her mouth now with the teeth in there and that would be hard to not notice too because it’s noticeable to me.

Craig:  Right. My favorite thing about this movie is that the director said, No CGI. Doctor.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  He only wanted practical effects. I think the makeup work is so Todd. Doctor.

Todd:  Yeah. Doctor.

Craig:  Because it’s gradual. It’s so gradual over time. But by the end, when it’s still Catherine Isabel and not somebody in a suit, she is so changed. And you can tell, I mean, if you’re being really super critical and looking with a bird’s eye, you can tell that it’s makeup. But I don’t care. It looks real Yeah. And tangible. It doesn’t look like a cartoon.  I I just love practical facts. Love me some practical effects. Basically, a lot of stuff goes on. They end up getting in trouble. Trina’s dead. Obviously, people are looking for her. Bridget tells Ginger, you’re out of control. You just have to stay in the house, which Ginger is not happy about.  Somehow, Ginger ends up at school and gets called into the guidance office to be questioned about this murder, and she kills the guidance counselor.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  And Bridget’s like, oh my Todd, I can’t believe this. Like, and so the plan that they come up with is we’re gonna get this cleaned up as best we can. We’re going to get this cure, which is the monks Todd, then we’re going to run away together. And we know that the monks hood works because they make up a batch of it like they’re making heroin or whatever. I don’t know how any of that works, but that’s what it looks like in movies when they do heroin, like boiling it in the spoon or whatever.

Todd:  It’s this is this guy’s laboratory. It’s how he’s used to work. Yeah.

Craig:  She Bridgette uses it on Jason, who Ginger had infected earlier. And it it it appears to work. Then what I feel like was kind of a major turning point is that she kills this custodian Yeah. Doctor. Who has been nothing but nice. In fact, he’s been very, very nice to Bridgette. And Ginger knows that. And so, the other people that she’s injured or killed have had questionable character.  This guy was a nice man. Yeah. He did not deserve what was coming to him. And I think that that was a turning point. That was showing that she is completely out of control.

Todd:  Ginger has snapped. Yep. Yeah.

Craig:  Yeah. Which even the title is

Todd:  The title’s clever. Yeah. So clever. It’s a cookie, she snapped and, you know, the werewolf can snap its jaws. I mean, it’s a it’s a good title.

Craig:  It’s very clever. At this point, she’s totally vicious and hurt she looks vicious. Fucking

Clip:  dot.

Todd:  And

Clip:  after, right on the dot. And after, see fireworks, supernovas, a goddamn force of nature. I feel like I could do just about anything.

Craig:  She even gets seductive with Bridget and says something like, we’re almost not even related anymore. Yeah. But she also pulls out that card, we have a pact. And so Bridget, is still trying to help her. Meanwhile, it’s somewhat inconsequential overall to, the plot, but the mom finds Trina, the dead girl.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  And so while Bridget is trying to track down Ginger, this is Halloween night by the way, this is a great Halloween movie. Yeah.

Todd:  If you

Craig:  haven’t seen this movie, watch it on Halloween. It’s a great Halloween movie. She finds Trina and she picks up Bridgette off the street and says, Where’s your sister? Bridgette says she’s at the greenhouse. That’s where this big Halloween party is going down. And then the mom has this great scene where she shows Bridget the fingers that she found.

Clip:  It’s 1 thing if you leave. It’s it’s almost normal, but no one’s gonna take you from me. First thing tomorrow, let the house fill up with gas and I’ll light a match. What? We’ll start fresh, just as girls. It’ll be fun. What about dad? They’ll just blame me. They all will.

Craig:  And Bridget says, but it this isn’t your fault. And the mom so sincerely says, yes, it is. And that’s just it. Like, that’s the end of the scene. Like, she takes she takes responsibility for it. Like, I I guess her hands off approach, she realized, has not worked.

Todd:  Yeah. It’s really interesting. Like, this element of the movie, I was not expecting this element, you know. And and that’s what makes this mother more than just a cartoon character. Oh, the goofy mom who’s totally out of touch with her daughters. She really cares and she’s willing to go that extra mile and it also makes it a little funny, you know. Mhmm. It’s just a little funny that suddenly mom is willing to get in on all this Todd, which is not what you expected when she pulled up, in that car and said get in.  Right?

Craig:  Yeah. And it is funny, but because it’s not played for comedy Mhmm. It works that much better, I think. Like, it’s played completely sincerely. Yeah. There’s certainly humor there, but they’re not it’s not a punch line.

Todd:  No. You’re right.

Craig:  And it just really works for me. This all leads up okay, so they get to the party. It’s a big, great Halloween party. Ginger at this point is in the final stages of her transformation. Her hair has turned completely white, her face has morphed a lot. So like, you know, the bridge of her nose has vastly widened, Her teeth are all sharp and pointy. Her nails, of course, she’s still hiding her tail, but we know that her tail at this point is long, like a dog’s tail. I don’t know how she’s hiding it in these skimpy little outfits that she’s wearing, but And at the party, she tries to seduce Sam, and Sam turns her away.  He comes across as a really endearing character. There’s a really interesting moment before Trina dies where she confronts Bridget and she says, don’t trust him. I feel like she calls him like a cherry picker or something like that.

Todd:  Mhmm. Yeah.

Craig:  Like, she says he’s into virgins and he just wants to take girls’ virginity. Don’t fall for it. I wish just for once, 1 girl wouldn’t fall for it. As though she had. Mhmm. And it it calls into question his character, but that’s really the only time because the actor who plays him makes him very endearing.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  But I thought that it was an interesting point anyway,

Todd:  nonetheless. Well, it’s interesting because even in the midst of all of this with the werewolf in this drama, we still have this high school stuff going on. Right? Yeah. Uh-huh. Her sister is a little jealous that she’s got this guy and then she’s gonna go and she’s gonna seduce him and she’s trying to turn him away from her and she’s rolling her eye. The guy’s saying to her, I don’t even think of you that way. Like, there’s all this high school stuff still going on in the midst of this. But, again, it’s not played for comedy.  It’s dead serious.

Craig:  Yeah. So Ginger breaks Sam’s arm. At least, it certainly sounds like that. But then he runs around for the next 20 minutes. Yeah. Seemingly fine. So I don’t know what’s going on.

Todd:  Who knows what happened to him right now?

Craig:  The way that Bridget gets Ginger to continue to trust her, I suppose, is that she cuts both of their hands and they swap blood. And and Bridget says, You wrecked everything about me that wasn’t you. Now, I am you. And Ginger says, I know you are, but what am I? And I thought that was so freaking clever. Yeah. Like, what, you know, that stupid thing that kids say to each other. But in this context, it was so heavy. Like, yeah, I know you are, but what am I? Like she doesn’t even know what she is anymore and what all of this means.  They go to leave, but Sam knocks Ginger out and Bridge is like, What are you doing? I just got her to trust me. But, they they get her in the back of his van and they head back to their house so that they can get the monks hoods so that they can cure them both. But meanwhile, in the back of the van, Ginger is going through her final transformation and she transforms fully into a werewolf. And so they get back to the house and Ginger breaks out of the back of the van and is running around the house destroying everything. Sam and Bridget end up in a closet trying to prepare the monkshood, which they do. Sam tries to get Bridget just to take it herself and then leave with him, but she won’t leave her sister. And so Sam says, alright, well, I’ll go hide in the living room, you lure her to me, I’ll jump out and inject her and it will all be over. And that’s what they’re going to do, but as soon as he steps out of the closet, he’s attacked.

Todd:  That was shocking.

Craig:  Yeah. Well, I mean, I I didn’t have high hopes for Sam.

Todd:  No. But I but I expected more of a showdown, you know. I mean, you kind of think you’re coming up to this scene where he’s, like, alright. Let’s go. And the 2 of them are gonna I mean, he’s probably gonna die. But, you know, there would be some fight to it. No. The minute he dugs out of it, he doesn’t even get out of the closet.  He’s pulled out of it and torn to pieces. Yeah. Yeah. It’s crazy.

Craig:  Well, she she rips him up and there’s blood everywhere and Bridgette, he drops the syringe. So she’s got it. And she follows the trail of blood down there and Sam is sitting up against the wall totally mauled, but he’s like panting. And based on what we had seen earlier in the movie, my understanding was that the only reason he wasn’t dead was because he was now infected. And, you know, his werewolfy powers were keeping him from actually dying. But Bridgette, in an attempt to try to keep Ginger trusting her, crawls up to Sam and starts to eat his blood. And the 2 of them, Ginger and Bridgette, sit there on either side of him licking up blood for a while.

Todd:  It’s like an unholy threesome.

Craig:  It is. It is.

Todd:  It is.

Craig:  But eventually, Bridgette vomits and says, I can’t do it and I I won’t do it. And then that leads up to the ultimate, the the finale.

Todd:  Yeah. And the finale is interesting. It’s kind of clever because at this point, this woman’s a full werewolf. And actually, I liked the effect here. It wasn’t it still looked like a puppet or whatever. It times a puppet. It very quick times a man in a suit. But I thought it was skillfully enough filmed that it looked good.  And I I loved it. I thought

Craig:  it looks great.

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. And, and so anyway, there’s just kind of a scene and they end up back in their bedroom, which is where where they started the movie. Mhmm. Right? Which is the the place where the 2 of them have their pact and whatever. And there’s an interesting face off where finally, Bridget’s backed in the corner. Ginger, as the werewolf, is slowly advancing on her. And Bridget says, I am not gonna die in this room with you.  She’s renouncing the pact. And in 1 hand, she has the cure, and the other hand, she has the knife that she picked up off the ground. It was the same knife that Right. Ginger was using to try to cut off her tail. And Ginger leaps at her.

Clip:  She ends up landing on the knife

Todd:  and that’s enough to take her down. I guess it takes her

Craig:  to heart

Todd:  or something. It’s sad. It’s really sad.

Craig:  It’s so sad. I mean Because she’s laying there dying and Bridget goes over to her and just holds her and Ginger stops breathing and she dies. And we see them there together and then it shows us all of their pictures taped up all over Yeah. Their wall of the 2 of them before all this had happened. And it just broke my heart. Yeah. Like, so sad. And I I, you know, I feel like the metaphor is extended there too.  Like, you know, maybe these types of relationships don’t end in death, but sometimes these close relationships die Yeah. When 1 person grows up and leaves the other person behind. And, seriously, like, I I finished the movie and I went and and sat back with my partner and he was like, how was it? And I was like, it was really good. It was really sad. And he was like, a sad horror movie? Uh-huh. He said, yes. It was heartbreaking. It was so sad.  And it just the the camera lingers on them there together for a while and then the credits roll.

Todd:  That’s it.

Craig:  And, that’s it.

Todd:  And now, I’ve got a question for you here because I I don’t know how to interpret this. She’s standing there. She’s got the knife in 1 hand, and she has the cure in the other hand, and they’re facing off. And she looks at Ginger and she says, do you want this don’t you? And she waves the cure in the air. Uh-huh. Now, did Ginger leap intentionally onto the knife instead of onto that syringe?

Craig:  I don’t think so. I think what she meant when she said, do you want this was you wanna get it away from me. 0II think at this point Ginger did not want to be

Todd:  cured. Really?

Craig:  Just just That that’s my that’s my take on it. I I mean, I think that she was going whether or not she planned to kill Bridget or turn her, I don’t think well, and she was already turned.

Todd:  That’s true. So

Craig:  III think that, I think that her carnal nature had just completely taken over.

Todd:  You think that you think that she’s completely out of out of control of herself? She was no longer Ginger, no no longer able to think rationally? Or do you think that in some way, she was like trying Todd her best to fulfill her side of the pact?

Craig:  No. It it could be either 1, but I think either way, she meant to kill her.

Todd:  Oh, it’s it’s a it’s a great great movie. III loved it the first time I saw it. And, I was just going back and reading my little review of it there. And, yeah, I gushed over it then in print. And I think we’re we’ve been gushing over it here now on the podcast. It’s a fantastic film, well acted, well shot, just really well written, extremely clever. And, I would strongly suggest that if you’re into this kind of, you know, if you wanna see a really good a good horror movie that’s gonna make you think and it’s gonna tug at your heartstrings quite quite a bit, you gotta go and seek this 1 out. And there’s sequels too.  Right? You’ve probably seen them.

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  I bet.

Craig:  I have. The sequels are are kind of a mixed bag. I mean, I still enjoyed them because both original actresses appear in both of them. Catherine Isabel isn’t in the second 1 very much, But I’m pretty sure she’s in it. I don’t remember if it’s just like in dream sequences or if she, like her spirit appears. I don’t really remember. But I remember liking it, the second 1. And then the third 1, again, I liked it, but it was really kind of cheap because really all they did was do the exact same movie again set in a different time period.  Like it was like in colonial times and these were supposed to be Ginger and Bridget’s ancestors What? Who were also sisters and looked exactly like them

Todd:  and all the exact same thing. Oh my Todd. Are you kidding me?

Craig:  No. I mean, I I still enjoyed them, but they they don’t live up to the original. You talked about the writing, the woman who wrote this was reluctant to write it, because of the way that women are typically portrayed in horror and the director who she had worked with before told her, No, that’s why we’re doing it. We’re gonna subvert that. And I think that they did, but not in a way that seems forced. Just, you know, these are really interesting characters. They’re not just fodder for, you know, male fantasies of what women are or bodies to pile up. You know, these are interesting characters that you come to care about.  I came to care about them and I cared about their relationship. And I give this 1 a glowing endorsement. I had forgotten how much I liked it. And so I’m glad that we, came back to revisit it because I I think that I enjoyed it as much this time around as the first time, if not more. I will surely watch it again

Todd:  Me too. In the future. Me too. And a good Halloween movie like you said.

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. Very good. Lots of Halloween decorations and costumes and fun stuff. That being said, Halloween, October is our favorite month here on the podcast and we have been doing this for long enough now that, we’re stretching for ideas for great Halloween movies. So if you have any recommendations for us, let us know. I’m sure we’ll come up with something. But if you, know something that we maybe haven’t done in the past, shoot us a request and we’ll see what we can do.

Todd:  Yep.

Craig:  Anyway, if you like this podcast, you can find us all over the place. We are on Facebook. We have our own website which is

Todd:  2 guys dot redfortinet.com.

Craig:  Thank you very much. And, really, you can find us just by googling us. We, anywhere you get your podcast, you will find us. Until next time. I’m Craig.

Todd:  And I’m Todd.

Craig:  With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.