Witchboard (1986)

Episode 187, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig:  And I’m Craig.

Todd:  Today’s movie is not a request. It’s just something that’s been on our radar for a while, and we have been itching to do some more movies from the eighties that are a little cheesy and a little fun. I know, Craig, that you’ve seen this a few times. I’ve only seen it once before and I didn’t really remember too much about it. In fact, I’m wondering if I remembered a different movie. This is, 1986’s Witchboard, which is the writing, directing debut of a guy named Kevin Tenney. Now, we know Kevin Tenney from a few films. He directed the Night of the Demons.  Mhmm. It’s a pretty notorious movie. He did that one right after this movie just a couple years later. He did another movie called Witch Trap in 1989. Have you seen that one?

Craig:  No. And, apparently, it’s, like, kind of a spin off of this movie, I guess. But there are actually 2 sequels to this movie and then Witch Trap, which I read is a spin off, but I also read that it specifically said on the back cover of the VHS, this is not a sequel to Witchboard.

Todd:  Interesting. Like, almost like he’s trying to distance itself. That’s that’s weird.

Craig:  Well, I don’t know because I think he was involved with both of the other sequels too. So Yeah.

Clip:  I don’t know.

Todd:  He wrote the the second and third one. He only directed the second one, you know, because then he jumped right into Pinocchio’s revenge, which I think you’ve seen.

Craig:  Yeah. I have and it’s awful and it stars the same male lead as this one, as as which board I believe. But not that it’s entirely relevant, but Pinocchio’s revenge, I have read was actually much more along the lines of what they originally intended for Child’s Play.

Todd:  Oh, really?

Craig:  Yeah. That, you know, it was this killer doll movie, but they kept you more in the dark wondering whether the doll was doing stuff or the kid who owned the doll was doing the stuff. Oh, gosh. In Inokio’s revenge. And I have seen it. It’s awful. I don’t that’s the only thing I remember about it. Is it terrible.  So anyway Fair enough.

Todd:  Well, he has kind of an interesting history. This is another one of cases. It seems like in horror, this happens a lot. There’s a guy who’s in, his final year or whatever of film school, and he writes a movie that he wants to get produced. And he gets wrapped up in getting funding for it and financing, and pretty soon it happens. So then he quits film school just before he gets his degree, to go out and make this movie. And then it sort of sets his career, more or less. So Mhmm.  I think we’ve done several movies like that, especially because horror seems to be a genre that’s really easy to jump into and make money from. At least, it definitely was around this time. I don’t know. Horror just has this kinda fan base. It’s pretty rabid. We’ll put up with a lot, won’t we? We’ll we’ll devour. Oh, yeah. A lot of you know, if the concept looks interesting, we’ll watch it.  And, and even if, you know, we’re used to low production value, we’re loose to cheese we’re used to cheesiness, that a lot of it’s part of the fun. And so even if your movie isn’t, like, particularly great, it can be good enough Sure. To show that you’ve got some promise in this genre as a director or a writer or whatever. And so a lot of movies like this are just springboards for for folks onto bigger and better things. So it’s a it’s a smart thing to target. I think, what was it? There’s nothing out there. Right? We did that movie that was written by the kid when he was 16. Right? And he that was just

Clip:  pushing me.

Craig:  Oh, yeah. Something like that. Yeah.

Todd:  Yeah. So there’s just there are a lot of these, you know, and and people directly target this genre because they know it can be a money maker. And so yeah. You know, he started out that way, got his money, shot this movie, did his thing. And ever since then, I mean, he’s made a movie every couple years. Without stopping, he had a bit of a brief pause in 2,009. He did a movie called Bigfoot in 2,009, and, now we are 10 years later, there’s a movie called Sins of 7 in pre production. And another movie, it looks like an anthology film, an anthology horror movie called Don’t Let Them In.  So I assume he’s maybe directing one of the sequences for that or or something. Gotcha. Yeah. So, you know, he has a fairly respectable little career going after this movie. But this movie itself is a it’s a time capsule, isn’t it?

Craig:  It is. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. It’s so eighties. It’s fantastic. Really. I have no idea why, but my sister and I used to watch this movie all the time. I can only imagine that it’s one of those things that either my dad taped off HBO or illegally copied from a rental.  Right. I don’t know, but we watched it all the time. I just remember liking it so much when I was a kid. Yesterday, when I watched it, I I’m sure was the first time I’ve watched it probably in 20 years. And it’s it’s not it’s not great.

Todd:  No. It’s not. Not in the slightest.

Craig:  It’s not great, but I’m probably still gonna be really generous with it. And I I imagine that it’s probably only because of the nostalgia for me, I guess. But I I still enjoyed it.

Todd:  I was trying to figure out if it’s so bad it’s good. It’s really sometimes, and I think we’ve talked about this before too, sometimes a horror movie that’s bad just isn’t so bad. It’s good. It it’s just bad.

Craig:  That’s true.

Todd:  And it’s hard to watch. And I don’t think I would exactly put this movie in that category, but I feel like it’s really riding the fence. I I remember about it’s what? An hour and 35 minutes long? Yeah. And I remember looking at the clock thinking, okay, this is almost over and it still had 34 minutes left to go. I was, like, oh, jeez. And for me that was one of the big problems with the movie is it moves so slowly. I feel like everything’s just kind of paced out a little too far.

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. And I felt the same way. I mean, it there are good parts and I think that, there are it’s not a bad concept. I think it’s an interesting concept. You know, it’s not like this is the only Ouija board movie. You know, there

Todd:  are plenty

Craig:  of horror Ouija board movies. But there are some good parts that I really enjoy. And then there are some parts that I’m like, oh my gosh. Really? Do we need to see this? Like, couldn’t we just get, like, 30 seconds of, you know, exposition instead of having to watch, like, research.

Todd:  But

Craig:  but nonetheless

Todd:  Nonetheless, we haven’t enjoyed it. Well, it’ll it’ll be fun to talk about anyway.

Craig:  Yeah. I think so. I mean, it it opens up right away. You you you get the opening credits and you can just it just reeks of the eighties. Like, the opening credits just absolutely reek of the eighties, which is a good thing for me. You know? I I could see why some people would see, you know, the credits pop up and be like, oh, here we go. But it opens with an opening shot of this old mansion, this huge mansion. It’s the same house that was used in waxwork and another movie.  Do you remember

Todd:  what the

Craig:  other one was? I don’t know.

Todd:  Willard Willard from the seventies. Willard. Right. Yeah. Mhmm.

Craig:  Yeah. It’s this huge mansion. It’s it’s awesome, and and they’re having a party for reasons unknown. I don’t know. I I remember thinking when I was a kid, how did these 2 young people this young unmarried couple, how do they afford to live in this enormous mansion?

Todd:  I was I was thinking the same thing. Actually, as we were watching it, I was trying to figure out whose it was at first. I thought, okay. Is this, like, a family thing that was passed Todd? Or does one of them have a the better job than the other? And we’re talking about Jim and, Linda. Right? And Uh-huh. And and then we find out Jim is, like, a construction worker. We’re, like, alright. Well, it’s clearly not his house.  And I thought, okay. Well, it must be Linda’s house. What does Linda do? I don’t know if we ever figured out what Linda does.

Craig:  I don’t think she does anything. Yeah. She she just hangs out in the apartment in her satin robe. Like, that’s literally all she does through the whole movie.

Todd:  That’s true. She she really leaves it, doesn’t she, now that I think about it?

Craig:  No. She hardly ever. The only time she leaves that I can recall is, like, when she goes to the hospital later in the movie. There’s there’s some talk of her, like, going to class, but, like, you have no idea what, like, is she going to college? Is it, like, a a welding class? Like, I like, I have no idea what she’s doing.

Todd:  It’s the class that presumably Brandon Brandon, the asshole

Craig:  Oh my god.

Todd:  Is presumably he teaches it because he keeps calling and saying how she hasn’t arrived or she hasn’t turned in her papers or something.

Craig:  Yes. Okay. So Jim is played by Todd Allen, who is a working actor. Like, you look at his IMDB profile and he has been in a million things. He was in Django Unchained, is probably his biggest, title, but he’s been in tons and tons and tons of things, movie, TV, everything. And then you’ve got Linda who’s played by Tani Kattain, who is probably most famous for rolling around on that car in that Whitesnake video.

Todd:  Oh, dude. As soon as I looked her up and I realized that was her, I just I immediately stopped and went over to YouTube and I watched all the Whitesnake.

Craig:  You immediately stopped it? Like, had to take a bathroom break?

Todd:  I’m not ashamed to admit it.

Craig:  No. She’s she’s super hot, and that video was super hot with her rolling around on the car.

Todd:  And that video is also totally eighties. Actually, there are 4 Whitesnake she was, like you remember when Alicia Silverstone was in those Aerosmith videos?

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah.

Todd:  This is, like, the same deal. Like, she’s in, like, 4 of these Whitesnake videos. Except, the Aerosmith videos actually had little plots, and they were kinda cute. These Whitesnake videos, I feel like they filmed all of her stuff in just one day and just spread it out across the videos because it’s either her rolling around on a car or walking down a cold wet street with fog blowing by her or dancing upstairs in a bedroom. Uh-huh.

Craig:  For no

Todd:  I mean, it has very little to do with the songs. But, dude, I’d watch that all day.

Craig:  She’s a very beautiful woman, but maybe not the best actress in the world.

Todd:  She should keep her mouth closed and just roll around in cars a little bit more. That’s an awful thing to say, by the way.

Craig:  That’s gross, Tom.

Todd:  I’m sorry.

Craig:  I’m I’m hanging up right

Todd:  now. Okay.

Craig:  And and then you’ve got Brandon who is played by Steven Nichols. I swear to Todd, we may as well make this a Days of Our Lives podcast because

Todd:  Where does everybody come from? Oh, yeah. Your favorite soap opera.

Craig:  Seems like every third movie that we do has somebody from Days of Our Lives in it. But, yeah, this this guy has been on Days of Our Lives for decades, like and he’s still he’s still doing it.

Todd:  Oh, really?

Craig:  Oh, god. Yeah. Like, he’s not on all the time, but they bring him back all the time. And he plays Brandon. Okay. And here’s the deal. So Linda is dating Jim, who is a construction worker. Brandon is, like, the super rich kid from town who Linda used Todd date.  And we find out okay. So in the opening scene, they’re having this party, and Brandon is a pretentious ass. Like, he’s just such a dick. And and I didn’t remember that, but he is. Like, I just kept wondering why is he at their party? Yeah. Because, like, he’s so like, he’s just blatantly insulting to Jim. Jim should have just took him outside and kicked his ass, frankly. Like like, it’s his party.  He’s being such a addict to him. And, you know, Jim has to kinda retreat to his blue collar friends. This is also you know, like, it’s such a weird eighties trope that people have house parties and everybody shows up in, like, their suits.

Todd:  Yeah. What? I know.

Craig:  Except for Jim’s blue collar friends who are there in, like, their jeans and t shirts, which would be what a normal person would wear to a house party.

Todd:  But Yeah.

Craig:  They get into it. Jim and Brandon get into it right away because Brandon’s being a dick and and Todd Kitaen, Belinda, chases Jim into the kitchen and and she says, I love you, and he says, I know. And and I bring that up because it’s like a thing. Like, he can’t say I love you to anybody.

Todd:  Yeah. Stolen from Star Wars, basically.

Craig:  And then we have our first Ouija scene. Again, Janden Brandon is such a butthole. Like, somebody’s like, oh, it’s a Ouija board. He’s like, no. It’s Ouija. It’s Ouija. He gives them all these rules. Like, it works best if 2 people use it and if it’s not sitting on a table but on their knees because then there’s the most body contact, and it needs to be people with clean systems, like, so people who don’t smoke or drink or whatever.  Jim’s blue collar friends, the dark haired one who kinda looks like John Stamos, his name is Lloyd, and he’s cracking jokes, and he’s he’s funny. I liked him. But anyway, so it turns out that Brandon and Linda are the ones who haven’t been drinking, so they’re gonna do it, and they do. And they contact this spirit that supposedly Brandon has contacted a bunch of times, and it’s this little boy who died 30 years ago, and his name is David. They’re talking to him and, at some point, I just thought it was so funny. I wrote it down. Jim says something about, like, it’s a little stupid and his friend Lloyd says, it’s a lot stupid. Like like, nobody nobody’s really buying this.

Todd:  And and I you also kinda feel like it’s maybe he’s talking about the movie?

Craig:  Yeah. Oh, maybe.

Todd:  It’s the only guy I could think of. No. It is stupid. I mean and you’re just standing around and watching this. And I think this is maybe the inherent problem with these Ouija movies, especially the the way that it’s presented in this film. And we’ve seen a lot of movies, like, that have this as an element in it. Right? It’s how the spirits awoken or whatever. It’s usually something really dark.  They have candles lit around there. It’s a really intense kind of atmosphere. They’re in the place where they know there’s a haunting going on or something. And this is just like a bright lights at a party on 2 people’s knees while everybody else is standing around watching them slide this planchette around. Mhmm. Not terribly tense scene, not terribly convincing for us or anybody who would be there watching. Yeah. Right.  Yeah.

Craig:  I mean, I I would have totally thought that this Brandon guy was just pushing the planchette around. Like Well, yeah. He’s putting the moves on Jim’s girlfriend.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  Brandon and Linda used to be together, but they’re not anymore. And that’s where all this tension comes from. And they end up asking this kid, like, you know, some random questions, but Brandon says, will you be able to return to the living someday? And he’s like, yeah. And will you be able to choose your parents? And the kid’s like, yeah. Like, that’s such a random line of questioning.

Todd:  Yeah. Like It’s really contrived. Yeah. A lot

Craig:  of Yeah.

Todd:  A lot of it’s super contrived because they’re trying to give us some information. And that later comes into play when we sort of find out that Linda is pregnant or at least thinks she’s pregnant.

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah.

Todd:  And so, oh, okay. Yeah. That’s where that that’s why that was said, apropos of nothing.

Craig:  And Jim and his friends are making fun of this the whole time it’s going on. And, like, apparently, that agitates the spirit, and he gets all agitated and go and, like, breaks contact or whatever. And then the one of Brandon’s, tires on his fancy little red convertible get popped. And there’s almost a physical altercation between Jim and Brandon, but Jim is the one who should be insulted and angry, and he’s kind of the aggressor, but he stops himself. And then it cuts to the 2 of them, Jim and Linda, in their bedroom, and Linda’s like, thanks a lot for ruining the party.

Todd:  Like, what? It’s true. The movie He

Craig:  didn’t even do anything.

Todd:  Yeah. The movie’s trying to paint him as the wise ass who’s cracking the jokes, who’s ruining everything, but it’s only because Brandon’s being a total dick.

Craig:  And because she invited

Todd:  him in the first place, like, don’t invite your ex boyfriend to your party,

Craig:  you dumbass. Dumbass. So silly. And the acting, like, I’m sorry.

Todd:  The acting

Craig:  is just terrible.

Todd:  It really

Craig:  is bad. I mean, it’s serviceable in parts, but then in other parts,

Todd:  like,

Craig:  you know, Tani Katate is sitting there brushing her luxurious hair, like, having this conversation of, like, oh my Todd. This is so bad. Yeah. We cut then to the next day, I guess, which is at, Jim’s worksite. Like, he’s a construction worker. He’s building a house. We find out that his hammer has gone missing, which ends up being a important plot point. But then it cuts to Linda, and she gets a call from a doctor on her answering machine, and it says your test results are in, but she’s already too late to call back.  So she gets on the Ouija board alone, which Brandon specifically told them not to do. Right. And she asks if she’s pregnant, and it says, yes. And she’s like, oh, is it true you can choose your own parents? That is so freaking creepy.

Todd:  It’s creepy.

Craig:  Why would you wanna choose a ghost kid to be your kid? That’s so weird.

Todd:  It’s crazy. She basically invites him to to choose her, kid. Uh-huh. And, he says no. And she says why not? And is and he says it’s because he doesn’t like Jim. Jim, who just cracked a bunch of lame ass jokes at the party, really didn’t take much to piss off the spirit.

Craig:  Right. So

Todd:  and then, like, what? The Ouija board flies across the room and I don’t know.

Craig:  Well, then it it cuts back to the worksite where Lloyd and Jim are talking, and we find out in this conversation that Jim and Brandon actually used to be best friends. Best friends.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  And, because Jim’s parents were drunks, and so he didn’t wanna be at home. And so he spent most of his time at, Brandon’s house. And then right away, Jim’s missing hammer, we get an ominous shot of it at this, like, pallet of sheet rock that’s hanging right above them. Jim stands up and walks away and Lloyd, like, lays back where they were sitting and eating lunch, And the sheet rock falls and crushes Lloyd, and he’s killed, which made me sad because he was funny.

Todd:  Yeah. And I want him to be in the rest of the movie. Interesting character in the movie. Crushed by I have to say because I’ve been on a lot a number of construction sites. I have no idea why there was a stack of sheet rock,

Clip:  on

Todd:  some scaffolding. Yeah. Just above their heads. There’s no good reason for it to be up there. They’re outside.

Craig:  No, but it total it totally would have killed him, though. Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure. He would he definitely would have been dead.

Todd:  But also his hatchet slash hammer. It’s more of a hatchet than a hammer.

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  It’s it’s actually a hatchet, and I have no idea why he uses it as a hammer. Let’s just put it that way. It’s sitting on top of it. I thought that this was because it’s got his initials carved in it, j w in the bottom. And I thought for sure that this ghost was causing this to happen to frame Jim. Like this hatchet was gonna fall first, and the drywall was gonna come down on it or something like that. So it was actually the hatchet that killed this guy, but it wasn’t.

Craig:  No. But, the the suggestion is that the hatchet was what cut the ropes that made it.

Todd:  Well, there’s no visual suggestion of this because the hatchet is just laying on top of the drywall. What happens is, in the next scene, they’re at the funeral of, Lloyd.

Clip:  Mhmm.

Todd:  And after it’s all over, Jim is hanging out with Linda. Right? Mhmm. And everybody else walks away, and some random dude walks up to them. And he’s an older guy, and he says he’s a policeman from the homicide detective. And and, my Todd, this what follows is the stupidest bit of dialogue.

Craig:  Oh, it’s so dumb. It’s so dumb.

Clip:  Do you like magic? What? Magic. You know, card tricks, sawing ladies in half. Magic. Yeah, I guess. Me Todd. I always wanted to be a magician. Don’t have the hands for it. I’m not, dexterous enough.

Craig:  Then how do you diffuse bombs?

Clip:  I don’t know. No one’s ever planted a bomb here. What can I do for you, Lieutenant? I’m investigating mister Salvador’s death. You ever been to Vegas? No. Why? They got these 2 guys there, Sigmund and Roy. I mean, they are the best magicians I have ever seen, without doubt. Yeah. I mean, they do some really amazing things.  You know, there’s only one thing I like better than seeing a good magic trick. It’s trying to figure out how it was done. Lieutenant, we’re not really talking about magic here, are we? No.

Craig:  And why does this always happen? I don’t believe this for a second. The detectives just hang out at funerals and wait till everybody disperses to approach people. But it happens in horror movies all the time.

Todd:  Like,

Craig:  oh, sorry sorry to bother you at your friend’s funeral, but I just had a few questions for you. Okay. Yep. Do you like magic? Have you ever heard of Sigmund and Roy?

Todd:  Which isn’t even right? No. Siegfried. Siegfried. Do you like magic, or are you just putting on an act? If he goes through, you know, it’s again, it’s that typical detective. It’s trying to be very clever. Like, he’s got this extremely roundabout way to come around to the point where he’s accusing Jim of murdering him, but it comes across so dumb. So anyway, he does his thing. And this guy, is another actor, actually, who’s been in quite a few movies and TV shows.

Craig:  Yeah. He looks familiar.

Todd:  Burke, Burns. Yeah. If you go to again, if you go to his IMDB web page, you will see, like, 81 credits, and it’s all over television and and movies. He was a voice in the land before time. He was daddy Todd, I guess. Fall Guy, MacGyver, Dallas, you know, all those movies, Falcon Crest. Sure. He was in Child’s Play 3 as well and the AirPlay movies.  You know, I thought he was pretty familiar looking, but his acting is dumb. Yeah. But maybe it’s because his lines are dumb.

Craig:  It is. And and, like, this is one of those things where they really could have just left this whole part out of the movie.

Todd:  Oh, yeah.

Craig:  I mean, they’re investigation thing is so stupid. Like, clearly, this detective thinks that Jim had something to do with Lloyd’s death, and then as more bodies start piling up, this detective obviously thinks that Jim is involved in some way, but it really adds nothing to the plot except for that this guy just pops up every once in a while to be annoying.

Todd:  And let’s let’s talk about this from a realistic standpoint too. His explanation are you missing a hatchet, Jim? Yeah. Yeah. My hatchet’s missing. I had to buy a new one. That’s interesting because something showed that the ropes that were holding the drywall together were cut with a hatchet that matches yours. How does that even work?

Craig:  Yeah. That’s some pretty impressive forensics right there. Like

Todd:  Are there, like, specific hatchet marks on the rope that that lead to this particular hatchet? I don’t know. And then he disappears for, like, most of the movie and then comes in, like, half an hour from the end. So it

Craig:  Yeah. It’s unnecessary. Okay. The only thing that you skipped right before the funeral, David, the little spirit boy that Linda is talking to now, like, helps her find this ring that she’s lost.

Todd:  Oh, by the way, she’s also no plumber. Yeah. I just had to laugh at this. Like, she she goes in the the the boy tells her that the ring is in, the drain of in the bathroom or something. So she knows enough to get a wrench. Okay. That’s impressive. She’s got the right wrench to go there and immediately unscrew one end Yeah.  Of the u trap underneath the drain, twins it out, and then spends the next 10 minutes fishing her finger, which isn’t even long enough, to go down there to try to get it out. When that doesn’t work, she goes and gets a toothbrush. I mean, it’s like, what? Just take it off and dump it out.

Craig:  Yeah. Just take it off. Yeah. And the other thing is she uses a toothbrush, which I can only imagine isn’t hers. And then when she’s done, she puts it back and doesn’t even rinse it off or anything. It’s so gross that she finds her ring. Jim scares her inadvertently. Like, he does this throughout the movie.  Like, he just pops up behind people and scares them, but she turns around and swears at him. And and I thought that it happens twice in the movie, and I thought that those were Todd Kitaen’s best moments.

Todd:  Yeah. When

Craig:  she freaks out and swears, but apparently, it’s uncharacteristic of her, which

Todd:  Which really offends him. He gets really upset like like, is he a bit of a prude?

Craig:  Well, I I don’t know. I think he’s just surprised and his friend has literally just died like an hour earlier. So but but he does. Like, he lectures her like language? Uh-huh. Really? Like Calm down. We’re both grown ass adults. Like, chill out.

Todd:  He’s a construction worker. Come on.

Craig:  I know. Right?

Todd:  But Linda tells Jim that she’s pregnant. Uh-huh. And they have a little moment. Oh, Brandon’s asking for the board back. Right? Yeah. So the next scene, I think, is in the kitchen? Yeah. Linda goes back to the board for no good reason just to let it know, By the way, I’m gonna be giving you back to Brandon tomorrow.

Craig:  Right. Because she’s, like, mad because she thinks that maybe David had something to do with the accident. She she thinks that maybe David was trying to hurt Jim.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  So yeah. So she goes just Todd be like, oh, I’m giving it back. I swear to Todd, she only exists in this apartment. All she ever wears are nightgowns in this long flowing satin robe. Like, that’s that’s like her whole life.

Todd:  No complaints.

Craig:  So I guess I understand why she gets obsessed with a Ouija board because what else does she have to do? Anyway

Todd:  So then she goes to the refrigerator, and the knife flies off of the wall, and inexplicably gets stabbed straight down into the floor. And then a random bottle of ketchup that is just out with the lid off or something on the edge of somewhere tips over and drops ketchup right down on the knife, so that it looks like it’s a bloody knife, and this is the ominous omen. And, oh, my Todd. Is that so stupid? It looks so stupid.

Craig:  And then it cuts to a wide shot of the house, and you just hear her scream, which happens, like, 3 times. Yeah. And this is kind of

Todd:  the thing about this movie is that that makes it hard to really laugh so hard at because it’s so serious about all this stuff.

Clip:  Mhmm.

Todd:  It’s presenting you with this really dumbass dialogue. This horrible acting, and these really laughable moments, but there’s no hint of self awareness here. There’s no hint of humor. It is dead serious about the

Craig:  whole world. Oh, yeah.

Todd:  And that should be funny, but it and I guess it kind of is when we’re talking about it. But in the moment, you just kinda roll your eyes.

Craig:  Yeah. I can totally understand why. I mean, I liked it when I was a kid, so I was into it. So but I I get it. I I totally get it. Then so Brandon visits Jim on the construction site and asks him, is Linda acting strange? Is she swearing? Is she sick? And Jim’s like, yeah. And Brandon explains this whole thing about how because she’s using it alone, it opens her up to the spirit and it’s dangerous. And it says, at first, the spirit will be really helpful and friendly, and that’s called progressive entrapment.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  Yeah. Exactly.

Todd:  It says it 3 or 4 more times.

Craig:  But then once the person is open, then they can start to possess the person.

Clip:  This is called progressive entrapment. So what you’re telling me is that I’m living with Linda Blair.

Todd:  Damn it, Tim. I’m serious.

Craig:  And Brandon says, I I wanna bring over a medium to do an exorcism. But then there’s this whole conversation where Jim says, yeah, these may all be symptoms of possession or whatever, but they’re also symptoms of pregnancy. And Brandon goes off on this whole thing about how you don’t really love her because you can’t love anybody, and you’ll eventually get tired of her, and you’ll just leave her just like you did with something, just like you did with medical school, just like you did with, and Jim cuts him off. He’s like, shut up. Todd, Brandon and Jim are gay. Like, I don’t think that they’re necessarily aware totally gay. But these guys, like when they say we used to be really close, yeah, they used to be really close. I I swear I swear to God that I didn’t.  I it makes sense to me now why I watched this movie so many times when I was a kid because these guys are gay. When I was done watching the movie Oh, I wish you were here right now.

Todd:  Oh, dude.

Craig:  My my partner my partner just walked in and did a humpy dance. That that was fantastic. But, when I was done watching the movie, I googled witch board gay because I’m like, surely, I can’t be the only one

Todd:  Uh-huh.

Craig:  Who sees this, and I’m not. Like, there are so many articles and blog posts and things about how this really is a romance story about Jim and Brandon. And, like, Linda is just totally relegated to her apartment. Like, she’s not even an important part of the movie really. And then the whole second part of the movie is just about these 2 guys re

Todd:  Kindling. Kindling

Craig:  their relationship. And they can’t even have a conversation with one another without getting, like, literally all misty eyed.

Todd:  That’s a good point.

Craig:  And as we I I just have it. I have in my notes that when he’s like, just like you left, and the guy goes, shut up. And I just have my notes, oh my Todd, totally gay. They are gay.

Todd:  I’m glad you’re here to point this out to me because, I mean, I just don’t think my gaydar was up on this one, but it is completely improbable and a little awkward and strange how the movie does end up progressing for the second half, where they suddenly are these it’s like this buddy thing. Yes. And they overcome they’re just so spiteful and hateful to each other, and within about one scene, suddenly, they’re getting misty eyed and talking about the good old days and, like, cracking wise and joking with each other like they’re best buds. Uh-huh. Staying in a hotel room together.

Craig:  You right. You know, with their glorious eighties chest hair. But we’re we’re not there yet. We’ll get there in a second. Okay.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  So Linda’s scared of David now. And then probably my favorite scene, they do invite the medium over. And this medium, her name is Zarebeth, and she’s played by a lady named Catherine Will. Oh, wait. She’s done a bazillion things. She’s been all over TV and all over movies. She’s very recognizable to me, but I remember her mostly from this movie.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  But she’s so funny. She’s so eighties. I mean, I guess they’re kind of going for punk. She’s not really punk, but she’s like punk kind of slash valley girl, I guess. Yeah. But she’s hilarious. She has hilarious dialogue. But at one point, like, they sit down to do this, seance or whatever, and she’s like

Todd:  Oh,

Craig:  bummer. I forgot my crystal ball. Just a little psychic humor. I don’t really have a crystal ball. Should we hold hands or something? Nah. It’s just in the vampire movies. You mean my nails are too grody? And they have this seance, and she channels David, and Brandon scolds Todd. Like, no.  You’re the bad one because you’re terrifying Linda. And the kid’s like,

Todd:  no. I love Linda.

Craig:  But Brandon says, you know, the the person that you’re talking through is a medium, and she has the power to exercise you. And the kid’s like, no. No. I’ll go away. So he does. But on the way home, Brandon is driving Zarebeth home, and she’s like, did you say that kid is only 10 years old? And he’s like, yeah. And she’s like, man, he must have been taking some major vitamins or something because that was some, like, powerful stuff that was going on. And then when he drops her off, she’s like, no.  Seriously, like, something’s off. I’m gonna do some research, and I’ll get back to you. So she goes in her house, and she does 30 seconds of research.

Todd:  In a book.

Craig:  And yeah. In a book. In a book that she just has at her house. Yeah.

Todd:  And I guess I guess we used to have books at our house. Oh, maybe she pulled in one of the encyclopedias off the wall, the w or something, you know. I could

Craig:  I didn’t get a Todd little bit. Like a psychic encyclopedia or something. Like an occultist.

Todd:  It’s the time life, mysteries of the unknown series.

Craig:  Yeah. But she, she she opens up and she finds this picture of this scary looking guy, and she goes to call Brandon, but then the spirit cam chases her around

Todd:  That’s right.

Craig:  The house.

Todd:  The spirit cam. It’s like ever since Evil Dead, there’s gotta be a spirit cam when people don’t really know what else to do. Like like, can they actually see it? Because when it’s the POV of the spirit cam, it’s like these people can actually see the spirit coming at them. They’re looking at

Craig:  Well, she can. Yeah. Oh,

Todd:  it’s not just her. Don’t know

Craig:  if it well, I the like, later, the spirit cam is haunting Jim, and he turns around. He doesn’t see anything. I feel like Linda sees something.

Todd:  Oh, but that’s in a dream.

Craig:  Yeah. She has a couple of dream sequences. Like, I swear to Todd, they’re just trying to give her something to do because she is completely insignificant.

Todd:  It’s like, oh, look. Linda’s out of the house. Nope. Kidding. It’s just a dream.

Craig:  Yeah. All she does is stay at home and paint her nails because she has these beautiful nails. And every time she’s using the Ouija board, like, oh, her manicure looks great. But, anyway, so then the the spirit kills Zareba. It slashes her throat and then pushes her out the window, and she impales herself on a sundial. Brandon hears about it on the news the next morning, and he goes to Jim and, again, very misty eyed. And when I say misty eyed, it’s like all of a sudden, every time the 2 of these guys are together, it’s like they’ve either been crying or they are directly on the verge of crying. Like, their eyes are all red around the outside.  Like, I can only the only thing that I could think when I was watching this was, like, they must have performed this scene several times and

Todd:  This is the 5th take.

Craig:  At some point because their eyes are so red or they were just stoned. I don’t know. It

Todd:  could be either one. It was the eighties. Could be.

Craig:  But Brandon goes to Jim and Linda’s asleep, and he’s like, oh my god. Here’s what’s going on. I think she’s being possessed, and it’s you know, we can’t just get rid of the Ouija board now because it’s too late. You know, he already has his hooks in her or whatever. And Jim’s like, okay. Good luck, and sends him off to go do research somewhere. And then Linda gets attacked by the spirit, and there’s an amazing scene where, like, the spirit is throwing her out in the room.

Todd:  It’s terrible. She’s just throwing herself back and forth.

Craig:  Flopping around.

Todd:  Head to the left, head to the right.

Craig:  I know. And I feel like they had to shoot it really close-up to give it any kind of sense of realism, and it still doesn’t work.

Todd:  Oh, it’s terrible.

Craig:  But she ends up getting thrown against the wall and knocked out and getting put in the hospital, which means that now Jim and Brandon can go on a little road trip together.

Todd:  Yay. Now that Linda’s now that Linda’s out of the picture,

Craig:  Let’s go up to Big Bear.

Todd:  It all fits. You are absolutely right.

Craig:  They’re so gay and they go up to Big Bear and, like, okay, so they do some library research.

Todd:  Now wait a minute. Before before you talk about the library research, don’t forget that the homicide this is the second point that the homicide detective pops in again.

Clip:  You know, I saw this magician once. He managed to make an entire elephant disappear. An entire elephant? That’s no mean feat either. Just a tiny elephant. It’s pretty tough just to stick up your sleeve. Of course, I know that he didn’t really make that elephant vanish into thin air. He just managed to hide it someplace.

Craig:  Like, because he’s still fixated on this hatchet.

Clip:  What do you think her throat would slip with? A hatchet? Whatever it was, her throat matched the ropes that were cut on the construction site.

Craig:  What? What? I don’t believe you even for a second. That’s so stupid. His hatchet keeps turning up. I mean, I guess the spirit is just carrying it around. I I don’t know. But then the buddies go on a road trip to Big Bear. It’s very beautiful up there, mountains and lakes and things.

Todd:  It’s a perfect little getaway.

Craig:  And they do some research, and they and they find out that what they wanted to know is if this spirit that Brandon had been contacting all this time had been telling the truth. So they do research and they find out that, yes, this kid really had been 10 years old when he died. He died in, like, a boating accident, like a a gasoline explosion on a boat, but they still don’t know why he is tormenting Linda. So Brandon’s like, well, let’s ask his parents. So they try to find him, but they can’t. And they’re like, well, the kid is buried at this certain cemetery, so maybe the caretaker would have records of his parents or something. So they go to the cemetery and it cuts to a shot. Now I’m stealing this because I read all these articles, but it cuts to a scene of, Brandon just sitting in his car.  One of the articles I read said the author was just waiting for Jim to pop up from his lap. And and I thought about it, I’m like, mhmm. I can see I I saw a movie like that once.

Todd:  Once? Highly doubt that. Yesterday.

Craig:  But oh, god. That’s so funny Todd. Because I was talking to my partner about this last night, and he said, yeah. I was walking through because I watched these on my computer in the living room. He said, I was walking through, and I thought you were watching gay porn. So he all he had to see was, like, you know, just an image. I had my headphones on. There’s no audio at all.  And he’s like, I totally thought you were watching porn. But they okay. So they visit the cemetery, and they find David’s headstone, but they also find his parents’ headstone, and his parents had just died a couple weeks ago. Now I I guess the implication here is that whatever true spirit is doing this, whether it’s David or, spoiler alert, someone else killed his parents so that they couldn’t talk or something, I guess.

Todd:  Yeah. Right? It’s I I didn’t get it. I didn’t I didn’t quite catch it.

Craig:  Whatever. But then they go back to their hotel room where Brandon proceeds to unpack his clothes on both beds, and they have a very chummy conversation while Brandon has his shirt open so you can see his, you know, beautiful eighties chest.

Clip:  What happened to us, man? We used to be like brothers. Well, things change. People change. I didn’t steal her from you. You know that. I know. Just that every time I see the 2 of you together, I go crazy. I started saying stupid things and I can’t stop.  You remember what you said about me quitting med school? Jim, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean that. Oh, no. You were right. You know what I’m afraid of more than anything else? That I’ll never be able to love anyone, and that I’m gonna end up spending the rest of my life alone.

Craig:  And then Jim makes a dick joke about Brandon and they laugh and have fun. And I also read on the DVD release, there’s a making of, and these two actors just really were very chummy together. And at one point in some behind the scene footage, you see them, like, rough housing together, and somebody off camera says, guys, have sex on your own time. So maybe it was just the dynamic between the 2 actors.

Clip:  But

Todd:  They had a real bromance going on. Yeah.

Craig:  Yeah. They’re they’re definitely gay. Wow.

Todd:  But,

Craig:  anyway, Linda wakes up. She’s been in the hospital. She hears David calling her, and then she sees this scary guy who cuts off her head, but it’s just a dream again.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  But she checks out of, the hospital. And Brandon buys a new Ouija board so they can go to the Todd where David died, and they try to contact him, and they do

Todd:  Do do do do do do do. Just a second. Brandon throws all of his previous rules completely out the window.

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  His thing was I mean, you remember he was such a dick at the party giving all of his, highfalutin knowledge about the Ouija board. Mhmm. How it’s connected to a particular spirit and then a particular person. He has his his own special signal with this person. And then it’s gotta be 2 clean and pure people. And they’ve gotta have it on their knees between them. He goes and he buys a new one, so it’s not connected to anything.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  They go to this dock and he says, aren’t we supposed to put this on our knees? And, Brandon says, no. No. No. No. It’s okay because we’re here in the spot where David died. And so, I think that it, you know, the the signals are strong enough that that’s not necessary. Like, why not just do it anyway? Right. Like, if these are your rules But when I’m watching the scene, it goes on for so long.  They’re asking this board so many questions. And the thing about this is, you’ve gotta picture this if you haven’t seen the movie. This isn’t like, you know, when you did the Ouija board back home, like, you’d all have your fingers on the planchette, and you’d ask it a question, then it would slowly move across to something and then stop. And then you’d ask it another question, slowly move across. I mean, there’s none of this drama in it. And I think, actually, that’s part of the problem is, why these scenes look so goofy and silly. Is because this planchette is constantly moving in like a figure 8 pattern on the board. And so it’s like, and they’re like asking it a question, then it kinda goes Todd something like This goes on for like 5 or 6 minutes.  And it gets kinda boring after a while. I actually

Craig:  thought it was kinda stressful.

Todd:  Well, it’s cutting between the board, like a top down view of the board and the planchette. And this view of just the 2 of them, just from about, I don’t know, belly button up. But you don’t see the board. All you see is the 2 of them looking down, and their arms are furiously moving. Yeah. I went up with you. I saw

Craig:  a movie like that

Todd:  once too. I thought you did. Yeah. That was going through my head when I saw this scene, actually. Even though none of the other stuff all the other stuff went over it, but this this part, I just had to bust out at.

Craig:  Well, yeah. Okay. So they ask all these questions, and it basically, it’s the kid, and he and he says it it wasn’t me. It was him initially at the party, but everything that happened after the party wasn’t him. And so Brandon’s like, who was it? And the kid just writes out evil. And then they say, who is evil? And it writes out her, and they’re like, her? Like, Linda? Like, what are you talking about? And the kids spirit gets all agitated, and Jim’s like, hold on. Didn’t you say they’re terrible spellers? And Brandon’s like, okay, David. Did you misspell the word? And he says yes.  And then they’re like, okay. Try again really slow. And he spells out her, and then it cuts away from the board. And it’s like, where did he go? He’s gone. He’s not here anymore. But they looked down and the planchette has landed on e here. Evil is here. And then this big stack of barrels or something that has been, you know, the backdrop behind them this whole time.  The ropes holding it break, and they’re knocked down. Jim is knocked out on the dock. Brandon is knocked into the water. Brandon gets out of the water. He goes to check on his buddy, and then the spirit cam hatchets him to the face.

Todd:  Yeah. You’re right. The spirit just carrying the hatchet around.

Craig:  Right. Exactly. The the that same hatchet. Like, say, like, I you know, as you can just imagine, like, just, you know, randomly floating around,

Todd:  like, it

Craig:  Todd a little trip to Big Bear. But Brandon gets a hatchet Todd the face, and he falls back in the water. And then Jim eventually wakes up after a while, and, he’s looking for Brandon. He he’s all bloody on his face too, which I feel like his wounds totally disappear in subsequent scenes, but he goes down to the shore to, like, wash the blood off his face. And Brandon, I never even understood this when I was a kid because, like, he’s dead, but he still reaches out of the water and grabs Jim. Yeah. And then Jim, like, holds him in his arms and weeps. And it’s been it’s been this whole thing that Jim never cries.  Like, he didn’t cry when his parents died. He didn’t cry when Lloyd died. But now when his friend dies

Todd:  His special friend. Stops.

Craig:  He just has a a horrible emotional breakdown.

Todd:  Yeah. That’s

Craig:  true. He’s gay. And then so then Jim races back because he finds out that Linda’s out of the hospital. At some point, Jim had thrown the Ouija board in the trash can. Linda gets it out. She talks to the spirit. It scares her again. We hear her scream

Todd:  from a

Craig:  wide shot of the house again.

Todd:  That’s right.

Craig:  And we hear, a man scream also. Okay. So this guy, his name apparently is Malfador, which is, like, means evil spirit or whatever. And at some point, Jim finds out who he is and that he used to live in their house. Jim figures it all out. He races home, and he opens up the door to their apartment, and it’s totally trashed.

Todd:  Yeah. Because Linda took a shower.

Craig:  Because she took a shower.

Todd:  Yeah. You can’t skip over this. I know it’s a gay movie, but throw me a bone here. We gotta talk about Linda’s shower scene.

Craig:  Careful what you wish for.

Todd:  Badam ching. Actually, keep your bone to yourself. Linda’s on. I usually do. Oh, man. I hope I can finish this. I was just about to say, I do wish I was there with you right now, Craig, but I’m done with that.

Craig:  Oh my Todd. Come on. Pull it together.

Todd:  Alright. Alright. Alright. So, of course, it’s gotta I just laugh so hard when Linda walks into the shower and turns it on. I’m like, oh, my gosh. This movie’s even gonna squeeze a shower scene in. Well, I was happy for it. Don’t get me wrong.  Yeah. But, she turns on the shower and gets terrorized by water. Yep. The water turns really, really hot really quick, and and the door to the shower is locked. So she has to smash her way out of it. And, and then it’s like she’s being attacked by the spirit. And apparently, this scene was really hard for her to do. She was apparently extremely nervous about shooting the scene, and chased all of the men off the set except for, like, the director and the second assistant camera loader, something like that.  I don’t know. It’s really weird. If you go to the Wikipedia page for this site, it feels like it was written by the director or somebody who is there on set every single day, because it’s an unusual amount of deep behind the scenes detail for a movie How do

Craig:  you look at it?

Todd:  For a movie Wikipedia page. Yeah. It’s insane. And then when you go over to IMDB, none of this information is there.

Craig:  Nothing.

Todd:  Yeah. But, yeah. There’s this this this little details. And she it even said in there that she didn’t even trust them to I don’t know what this means. But it says that she didn’t even trust them to shoot the scene until she saw a wedding the wedding ring on the cinematographer’s finger.

Craig:  Oh, wow.

Todd:  Yeah. Like, did she think they were gonna do something to her or

Craig:  I don’t know. I mean, I I wouldn’t do nudity, but I

Todd:  guess she just

Craig:  it just surprised I I I don’t know why I think that beautiful people would feel any different than I do. I mean, she’s such a beautiful like, what do you have to hide? Like, show it off. Like, you look great. Well But it does I mean, it almost feels gratuitous isn’t the word because it’s not gratuitous. I mean, it’s it’s a a very mild scene. But it’s unnecessary. Nude.

Todd:  Yeah. I mean It

Craig:  is unnecessary. But but she is fully nude. So, you know, I I can understand why there would be some discomfort.

Todd:  I think the full frontal at some point for at least a flash. Right?

Craig:  Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I I always think of, Revenge of the Nerds. We’ve got Bush. But, Todd Kitaen, I’m sure you’re looking or listening. You looked great.  You had nothing to

Todd:  worry about. So yeah. So she’s terrorized by the shower. Go on. Later, Jim breaks in, and sees that the room is absolutely torn up. And then as he’s walking around the room, calling her name, suddenly, she pops up from behind a a broken out desk or something with is it an axe? It’s just a random axe. Right? I thought it would It’s a fire axe. I thought it would be her his hatchet or something.  But it must be she must keep a fire axe in her room or something. This scene is so bad.

Craig:  And and, like, she’s talking to him. Oh, and I I hope she’s not listening because her acting is so so terrible. But they they distort her voice to make it sound more masculine. And the thing is, like, she’s obviously trying to kill him, and she gets him by the throat. She’s throttling him on the ground, and he’s choking and and he says, I love you, which he’s never said to her before. Like, she comes back for a second, but then the spirit comes back. He’s like, it’s not gonna be that easy.

Todd:  Yeah. I actually thought that was the most clever moment in the entire movie. I really appreciated that because my eyes were rolling when he said I love you, and she started coming back. I was, like, oh my god.

Craig:  So he stabs her in the leg with a letter opener, and it’s funny because she clearly has, like, huge padding in her pants.

Todd:  I can totally see it.

Craig:  He stabs her in the leg, and then they’re facing off. He has a gun. I don’t even remember where he got the gun.

Todd:  From the cop because because inexplicably, suddenly the cop bursts in.

Craig:  Yeah. It’s

Todd:  the 3rd and final time you see the cop.

Craig:  And he’s, you know, he thinks that Jim is gonna hurt her, so he tries to help her, but she, like, knocks him to the ground. And then Jim is holding this gun on her, and she goes into this whole monologue about how he is the portal. Now I thought this was actually pretty clever because Brandon had said that the spirit will terrify you and scare you to make you weak so that you are an easy conduit or something. Mhmm. Evil Linda says to him, I terrified you by torturing her. And that actually makes sense.

Todd:  Yeah. It’s kinda smart.

Craig:  If it were true

Todd:  Right.

Craig:  But it also doesn’t make sense because he’s like, there’s if you wanna close the portal, there’s only one way you can do it, and you’ve got the means right there in your hands. Basically, what he’s saying is kill yourself to close the portal. Well, that should be a big clue because this evil spirit clearly wouldn’t want the portal closed. So why would he tell you how to do it? Yeah. It doesn’t make any sense. Yeah. So it looks like Jim’s gonna kill himself. He puts the gun to his head, and he says her name, and then she, like, comes back and she’s like, no.  Don’t do it. And then you hear the gunshot, but it’s a total fake out because he doesn’t shoot himself. He shoots the Ouija board, which expels the spirit from her body. But I guess when it comes out, it turns back into the spirit cam. It forces him some way out the window, and it’s a terrible special effect shot

Todd:  Oh Todd.

Craig:  Of him falling out the window, like, onto this car or whatever. And then it cuts to another fake out scene where you see a bunch of people in church Craig, and you think surely it’s his funeral, but it’s not. It’s their wedding. He’s in a neck brace, but it’s their wedding. And they’re married, and it’s very eighties and everything’s happy. And then you see the people cleaning up the apartment, the landlady and some other cheeky cleaning up the apartment. They pick up the Ouija board and one of them says, oh, I wonder if it still works. And the other one says, with all those bolt holes in it, no way.  And they throw it in the trash, and then you see the planchette race up to the yes. The end.

Todd:  The end. Now you gotta mention that the landlady is Rosemarie.

Craig:  Yeah. I don’t know her. Like, she was really recognizable, but I didn’t recognize anything that she was from.

Todd:  Did you ever I know this is older than both of us, but I’ve there were reruns going all the time, and it’s so famous. Did you ever watch the Dick Van Dyke Show?

Craig:  I mean, here and there.

Todd:  She was the writer. She was the the his this writer friend of the Dick Van Dyke Show. She’s fantastic. Rosemarie is Oh,

Craig:  she’s great.

Todd:  Is incredible. Like, she, like, started out her career, like, in the 19 twenties when she was a kid.

Craig:  The jazz singer or something like that.

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. She became a jazz singer, but she was, like, a kid. They called her baby Rose, I think. And she was on the radio when she was, like, I don’t know, 5 singing. And, she’s just had an insane career. Jazz singer, hugely great on The Dick Van Dyke Show, com a real comedy writer, not just on that on that show, but in real life, and tons of stuff. So weird that she ended up with a bit part in this movie.  Mhmm. Oh, I don’t get it.

Craig:  So anyway, then there were a couple of sequels. If I ever saw the sequels, I don’t remember them. And like I said, a spin off. And and I I don’t think the sequels followed the same storyline at all. They just the thing they had in common was a Ouija board. Yeah. I don’t know. Again, it’s it’s childhood nostalgia for me.  It’s not a good movie. It’s it’s it’s kind of a lame movie. Like you said, I wouldn’t classify it as so bad. It’s good. Yeah. But I would almost say that if you like eighties horror movies, it’s definitely not the worst. No. You know, I I still kinda like it.  I’ll probably watch it again at some point. Especially

Todd:  especially now that you have this whole other take on it. Right. It does make the movie slightly more interesting, actually. But I it’s gotta be a completely self aware thing on the part of the I mean, the director, from what I saw when he was talking about this film and I think I read this on the Wikipedia page as well when he was talking about, how his inspiration and stuff for the script was. He was actually kind of inspired by The Exorcist, kind of inspired by something else. And he talked about how he really was trying to heighten this bromance that this board, in his mind, the board was helping Jim to realize his problems, relating to people and what was coming between him and his girlfriend. Yeah. And I guess, you know I mean, maybe in the director’s mind, it was Jim’s own, you know, mental problems.  But, when you watch the movie, there’s something very clearly coming between him and his girlfriend.

Craig:  Stop saying coming.

Todd:  Multiple times.

Craig:  Oh my Todd. Let’s just let’s just leave it there.

Todd:  Let’s hand it here. Okay. Alright. Thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend. Or a special friend. Just just search search on the Internet where you could find many interesting things. 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.  We have a Facebook page. You can leave us a comment there. We have a website 2 guys dot red forty net Todd com. You can find all of our back episodes there as well and leave us a comment there. Give us your request. We’d love to, to hear them. Until next time. I am Todd

Craig:  And I’m Craig.

Todd:  With 2 guys and a Chainsaw