The Lair of the White Worm
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We’re jumping back to a few requests this month and tackling this Ken Russell film that is difficult to categorize. Is it self-aware satire or just a cheesy failure? Is it horror or comedy? There’s a lot to unpack here in this surprisingly fun film. Thank you, Robin, for suggesting it!

The Lair of the White Worm (1988)
Episode 163, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast
Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.
Craig: And I’m Craig.
Todd: Well, as we promised, we’re going to come back to some requests, especially some requests that we received during request month. So today’s film is 1 that actually has been on my radar, but I don’t think it’s been on any of our lists that we’ve composed together. So I was really glad that Robin contacted us through our Facebook page and suggested that we do The Lair of the White Worm by director Ken Russell, infamous director Ken Russell. I’ll just briefly tell you my backstory with Lair of the White Worm, which is not much. I remember being a kid probably in the early 90s and my dad rented this movie from the video store and watched it by himself and I remember coming up to him the next day as we were returning it and seeing the cover like that’s bizarre This doesn’t look like the kind of thing my dad would normally rent. And I said, so how was it? Did you enjoy it? And he said, it wasn’t really what I expected. So what does that mean Dad? No, I didn’t really enjoy it. Which, totally, now I’m watching the film, is absolutely what my dad’s take on this movie would be. That’s funny. But, unfortunately, so it’s been kind of, like I said, on my radar for a while, but we hadn’t seen it until today.
Craig: I never even heard of it, which is kind of surprising to me. I don’t recall seeing it at the video store. You know, I was surprised to see that it stars a very very young Hugh Grant
Todd: Yeah,
Craig: I was just really surprised I hadn’t heard of it And then I started watching it and I’m like like I watched like the first I don’t know whatever 15 minutes And I was like oh, it’s gonna be some stuffy British film, like, okay, so, like, there’s like some snake people or something, whatever, and then it gets to 1 scene and I’m like, wait, what? What? What is happening? And then from then on, I was like, holy shit, it’s like, what is going on in this movie? It’s crazy. From then
Todd: on, you were hooked, huh?
Craig: I don’t know if I would say I was hooked. I was shocked. Like oh my gosh, it was wild. This is 1 of the craziest movies that we’ve done. And we have done some crazy ones. The crazy movies that we’ve done have been so crazy that they’re not really comparable aside from the fact that they are so crazy and bizarre and out there. But like, this was giving me shades of like society or even like the boxers omen like yeah like it’s it’s nuts it’s a nutso film and before I even watched it I read some stuff about it and I read like that Hugh Grant won’t even talk about it like really he refused yeah like he refuses to discuss this movie at all which I think is a little bit silly but I kind of get it like it’s it’s out there well
Todd: it’s out there and crazy in a very respectable British way.
Craig: Yeah, I guess.
Todd: Well maybe not respectable, but yeah, very, very, it’s its own flavor of crazy. Like it’s not trauma crazy, it is its own flavor. Like you said, it starts out and it seems like it’s going to be this sort of stuffy British Gothic horror film and then it turns into this wackadoodle. At times it’s like a bad 80s music video. I was thinking like House, you know, with some of those visuals. You remember House? Yeah, yeah. Not House like… House-su. House-su, yeah, the Japanese 1. Did, have you ever seen any of Ken Russell’s other films by chance?
Craig: I don’t know. I don’t know what else he’s done.
Todd: Maybe the 1 you’re most likely to have seen would be Altered States.
Craig: No, I haven’t seen it. I know what it is, but I haven’t seen it.
Todd: He also did a very notorious film called The Devils, and actually it’s so controversial that Warner Bros., even to this day, refuses to release it in its uncut state.
Craig: That 1 has to do with nuns too, doesn’t it?
Todd: Yeah, it’s kind of an obsession of his. He likes nuns and Catholic imagery and stuff in his movies and shocking weird stuff. It’s just sort of his MO. He started out as a BBC television director and directed episodes of things and developed series and stuff and got more and more kind of outlandish and out there and then moved into film. And I guess maybe the 1, the other 1 you’re most likely to have seen would be Tommy. He did the Who’s Tommy.
Craig: Oh yeah, yeah, I’ve seen that.
Todd: And almost all of his films have actually been pretty successful commercially, I think for 2 reasons. First of all, because of the controversy. I think he’s not a Roger Corman, I think, who does controversial things just to make a buck because he knows where his bread is buttered. I just think he’s kind of a whacked out there kind of guy and so his movies are so controversial and have all this weird stuff in it that’s bound to stir people up and so they end up you know bringing people out to see them. But then the second thing is, honestly, they’re well made. There’s a lot of symbolism and imagery in here. The filmmaking is a high quality, I think. He is a very respected director, even though I don’t know if there’s a critic on the planet that’s willing to say everything he’s put out has been gold. And this 1 tends to be on people’s list of the maybe the more silver or bronze level stuff that he’s done. I read that he did this movie as part of a like 4 or 5 picture deal with a studio. That was because his film Gothic, which we should probably do. I’m curious
Craig: about it anyway. I know I’ve seen it. I remember that from the video store. There was like a little goblin-y kind of guy. Yeah, I
Todd: remember that. You’ve seen it?
Craig: I have seen it, but I don’t remember it. I just remember the cover.
Todd: Yeah, it’s like about the night that Mary Shelley invented the Frankenstein story. And a lot of his movies actually are takes on old historical novels, you know?
Craig: As is this 1.
Todd: Yeah, as is this 1, which is based on a Bram Stoker novel called The Lair of the White Worm. I’ve even seen people liken this to, I think it was Roger Ebert, liken this movie to something that Roger Corman would have put out just because of its theme and its tone. And he really considered this a pretty schlocky B grade movie. He didn’t give it a very high rating, but I don’t know. I’ll be interested to hear your take on it as well as we talk about it because it’s got, it’s got some layers.
Craig: Yeah, that’s the thing. And like, I’m not, I don’t consider myself to be an avant-garde, artsy kind of guy. I’m much more straightforward in my tastes. But this, I don’t know. I was actually kind of impressed. Some of the imagery in this movie is really controversial you know here I am ironically a gay Catholic but but like there’s lots of gosh I don’t even know how to describe it okay so well yeah but I was going more for the Catholic you know side of it Lots of Christian imagery in a very, God, you would almost call it sacrilegious. I can see how if somebody were a very religious person, they might be kind of offended by some of the imagery in this movie, because it’s pretty crazy. But anyway, it starts out, well, first of all, it’s by Vestron. I loved Vestron. Vestron put out great horror movies in the 80s. And I was just watching the, I didn’t know that it was based on a novel by Bram Stoker. I’d never heard of this title before, but it starts out this guy Angus is doing an excavation, I guess like at his girlfriend’s house. Like that was kind of weird, whatever. Yeah. Or was it his girlfriend even, or is he just there? I don’t know.
Todd: He’s kind of a friend. She’s not his girlfriend yet, but he’s definitely a friend. But it’s hard to see what their relationship is at this point, yeah.
Craig: Sure, so he’s doing some, he’s an archeologist, he’s doing an excavation, and right away he finds this giant skull and it looks like a snake skull. I read that they actually fabricated it using cow skulls and whatever, but it looks cool. And then he also finds like some coins with some weird imagery, like 1 of them has like a serpent like wrapped around a cross. And then we go to a hoedown in a church.
Todd: It’s like a disco hoedown.
Craig: Where we get this great song about this legend of this giant worm.
Clip: Now the worm got fat and grown and grew in awful size with great big teeth and a great big mouth and great big goggle eyes. And when at night it crawled about looking for some booze. If it felt dry upon the road it milked a dozen coos.
Craig: And you know, it’s all very celebratory and they’ve got like this giant white worm puppet that a bunch of people are like dancing around in.
Todd: It’s kind of the equivalent of the Chinese New Year dragon Puppet dance kind of thing.
Craig: Yeah, that
Todd: they’re sneaking around through the crowd as they dance. It’s cool. Sure.
Craig: It’s cool and it’s kind of freaky too. It is, but it’s fun. It’s all about how, I guess, you know, this worm, this white worm, which really, you know, was a snake or a dragon or whatever used to terrorize this area. But an ancestor of Hugh Grant’s, Hugh Grant’s name is James Dampton, and 1 of his ancestors fought the snake and cut it in half. And so like they do this whole thing where like, you know, the big, you know, puppet snake or whatever, you know, breaks into 2 pieces and then is dancing around in 2 halves or whatever. It’s celebratory, it’s fun. And that kind of sets up the lore of what’s going on. Meanwhile, we’ve got these 2 sisters who are also in attendance. It’s Mary and Eve, right? Eve is the other 1. Yeah, they live and I guess run kind of like a bed and breakfast type deal. I guess so.
Todd: He’s the landlord. Well, he’s like kind of, he’s the lord, right, of the manor. And so this is sort of his party and it, you know, goes back generations, all of this legend or whatever is within his family. And then he is the landlord of this house that the 2 sisters live in and they are orphaned Fairly recently orphaned just like a couple years ago I guess and they’re living in a house on his property Which is kind of funny that this other guy has been excavating on his property It hasn’t even been asking him about it But yes, and they meet at this party actually, the 2 sisters. It turns out that Eve is sort of a girlfriend of James. Mary is a girlfriend, well friend anyway so far, of Angus. And I thought this meeting scene, again, this just, I really like what Ken Russell does visually. This meeting scene is so interesting because the guy who plays Angus, Peter Capaldi, at this young age, the way that he’s done up in this movie almost looks like Hugh Grant’s brother or like his twin. They have such a similar look, don’t you think?
Craig: I don’t know. I think Hugh Grant’s is very pretty and this guy’s a little bit more rustic, but…
Todd: Yeah, I mean, I agree, but if you kind of squint and you look at them both on the screen, their nose, their kind of their facial structure, everything, almost down to their hair except the 1 guy’s hair is a little more done up than the others. They meet at the buffet table of this party and they’re talking with each other and they’re figuring out, oh this is how I ended up being here. They tells the lore about the worm and everything, finds out that he’s been digging in his yard and mentions that he’s found the skull, which James takes an interest in because it’s part of his family legend. In the meantime, this just the way that this is framed, they’re exactly you could bisect the scene down the middle. And it looks to me anyway, like a split screen
Craig: where
Todd: the 2 sisters look very similar and they’re right next to the 2 guys. They’re almost like mirror images of each other. And this had to be intentional. It’s a cool framing. But then this buffet that they’re at if you really look at it and it gets called out later But if you really look at it while it’s going on you see there’s just all this like disgusting Kind of stuff on there. It’s like the party is done up, this worm party is done up to like almost like a Halloween type Yeah Affair right? So they’re like tentacles coming out of the jello and in the meantime James is giving Angus some stuff on his plate and Angus is eating it and after a while Angus, toward the end of their conversation, Angus says, oh this is pretty good I’ll have some more and Hugh Grant says, oh you want some more? Mmm,
Clip: it’s very tasty.
Craig: Oh good, so you’ve taken to our local speciality. Pickled earthworms in Aspic is not to everyone’s taste I can tell you. Eww!
Todd: To which he kind of like chokes a little bit and they’re just these bits of humor and also like if I was making a drinking game for this movie I would say drink every time there’s some kind of funny joke or wordplay or kind of visual thing going on. And drink every time there’s some reference, oblique or not, to worms. Because it is jam-cram packed in this movie in every scene you could possibly imagine. Some reference to worms. And it became kind of a game for me after a while to make sure I spotted or heard all of them.
Craig: That’s funny. Yeah, there are a lot. And I see what you’re saying. I hadn’t considered it, but even with the girls who are sisters, of course, so of course they should look a little bit alike. But the 1 that is paired with James, Hugh Grant, is kind of the more traditionally pretty 1. And the 1 who is paired with Angus is kind of, she looks To me a lot like Kate McKinnon from Saturday Night Live.
Todd: Yes. Yeah spitting image. Honestly.
Craig: Yeah Yeah, but yeah, so you’ve got like the kind of polished up pair and the more rustic pair Yeah I see the duality that you you’ve got going on there and there’s so much like I I have this isn’t even a long movie and I have so many notes and I’m trying not to get too caught up in the details, but the girls’ parents are missing and have been for a while, like I wasn’t really clear on how long they’ve been missing. And they’ve recently, somebody has found their dad’s watch at StoneRig Cavern, which isn’t important at this point, but becomes important later on. So that’s why I bring it up. Anyway, Then this other lady, Lady Sylvia, shows up. Like, she’s just kind of sneaking around outside or something, and a cop, you know, sees her, and then he gets bit by a snake and she sucks the venom out of his leg, which is kind of sensual and weird but you know I wasn’t thinking too much of it yet you know I’m thinking okay this lady you know she’s the mysterious lady who shows up this is a Bram Stoker book she’s probably scary whatever I don’t know
Todd: yeah you get that from the very beginning, don’t you? Even when she appears.
Craig: Well, and she’s very beautiful and sensual, and so you just kind of get that vibe from her that there’s something sinister about her.
Todd: Well, and you know you’re watching a movie called Layer of the White Worm and you’re getting all these white worm references thrown in your face, even just in this first 10 minutes of this movie. So when she shows up and she’s dressed all in white and she’s got that thing and she owns this home called the Temple House which is this big mansion that’s nearby that apparently is only she’s only in during the springtime or whatever and she’s gone most of the other time and so yeah that whole scene with her and the cop in there who by the way is played by Paul Brooke who I recognized immediately as Mr. Fitz Herbert from the the Bridget Jones’s diary.
Craig: I just I recognized him because he’s got a wonky eye. I knew I had seen him before. What is it?
Todd: What is it about British actors and wonky eyes? How many how many wonky eyed British character actors are there that you’re like, oh, it’s that guy.
Craig: Anyway, Lady Sylvia goes by the sister’s house while they’re out and she steals the skull and then she walks up to a crucifix and we just get this shot of her with these, it’s out of nowhere. In 1 moment she’s just regular lady Sylvia and then we cut to like a close-up of her and she’s got like these 3 inch fangs like snake fangs and like scary snake eyes and she shoots I don’t know venom I guess out of her mouth onto the crucifix, and I’m like, oh, well, that’s weird, but okay, whatever.
Todd: And it comes out of nowhere. Right, it comes
Craig: out of nowhere. And it leaves just as quickly.
Todd: I mean, and it was a little bit scary, I thought. I mean, it was shock, kind of a shock, you know, jump scare kind of moment.
Craig: Yeah Well, and and it looks good like it’s funny cuz she’s she has these fangs At various points throughout the movie and other characters have them at some points throughout the movie and they’re huge and they look fantastic. But it’s obvious that the actors can’t close their mouths with those fangs in so they just have to walk around with their mouths wide open, which is Kind of hilarious. But anyway, so she steals the skull and she leaves Okay, and then James and Eve come back to the house after the you know, fun night of dancing or whatever and This was the moment like Eve is walking upstairs. They say I’m tired. I gotta go to bed or whatever. She notices something gross on the wall and on the crucifix and she goes and she touches it and then it was it’s 1 of the trippiest scenes I’ve ever seen in my life And there are several of them throughout, but this is where they begin. And it’s just like a punch in the face. Like, yeah, everything has been, you know, so kind of subdued and very British and you know, up until this point. And then all of a sudden we’re in like this surreal, it felt like a painting, you know like, but it was you know live action obviously and Jesus on the crucifix against this kind of technicolor background and this huge white snake wrapped all around Jesus in the crucifix. And then there are these scary, there are like nuns like praying in front of the crucifix and then these gladiators come out and graphically, I mean not like porn graphically but pretty graphically like rape the nuns and there is some brief like topless nudity with these nuns but they’re still like in their, I don’t know what you call the top part, but like the headpiece of their habits. And so it’s just, it’s really shocking. Like I was shocked.
Todd: And it’s also really cheap looking in a film, In a movie that honestly has been quite beautiful up to this point, and really almost noir in the way that it’s been filmed with lots of shadow and really good costume and grandiose and beautiful settings, You get what you just described and it looks like a shot on video music video.
Craig: I get what you’re saying. I can totally see that. Like an 80s music video and this is you know the movies from what 88 so it is the 80s whatever but to me it didn’t look so much like cheap as it looked like This is a stylistic choice that we’re making. Oh yes, yeah, I agree. I was actually kind of impressed. Like, to be, I felt a little dirty. Like, oh my god, what is happening? And like, in the vision, like Lady Sylvia’s there, but she’s like this demon snake lady it’s crazy like it is it’s just absolutely insane and then it’s over and she passes out I don’t know Then it goes on from there and then it gets back more into some of the realistic stuff. And there are several of these scenes throughout. And then when we get to the end, it all kind of culminates in these things kind of coming into their reality, not just being visions or whatever, but I have to give it credit for just… It totally caught me off guard. I was surprised. Honestly, you know, I’m not easily offended or easily shocked, even when it comes to like religious iconography and stuff. You know, like I go to church and blah, blah, whatever. But I’m not easily shocked by these things. But it just it happens so quickly and it’s so in your face. I was like, holy crap. Like, I feel like I literally, well, I know I did. I literally paused it and was just trying to write down everything that I could remember because I was like, oh my God, that was wild.
Todd: Yeah, I know. It really was. And I think the whole movie totally is kind of like this too. There are moments where the film is very, I think, well structured and very well played. There are moments where it just seems like a cheap B movie. Like for example, not long after this, there’s a scene of like a Boy Scout.
Craig: Yes! He’s, he’s, he’s,
Todd: It just comes out of nowhere too, and he’s hitchhiking through the woods, and she comes and she picks him up and she takes him back to his lair.
Craig: Sylvia, Lady Sylvia.
Todd: Yes, Sylvia does, sorry. Comes and picks him up and brings him back. She’s saying these lines, And there’s so many of these lines in this movie, and I think the movie is just so much more charming with this stuff in it.
Craig: There’s some system you’ve got there. How do you rate the music? I’m not really into any banging. Are you into any sort of banging? I’m not bad on the math, Algon. You’re sweet. What’s your name? Kevin. The mates call me Kev. Ah. Look, Kev, you’re soaked. We’re passing my door. Why don’t you come in and dry off? It’ll be getting dark soon. A big boy like you afraid of the dark? No, I just don’t want to be late for my dinner at the Euphostal, that’s all. Don’t worry, you’ll leave me well satisfied. Yeah.
Todd: You know, and he’s looking down at her garter, which is showing and all that. They’re just all these little lines and this Kevin guy Who’s I think play an actor playing a person who was supposed to be much younger than he really is Nonetheless, it’s like the dopey doesn’t really get it kind of Boy Scout guy And the next see the next shot is of them playing freaking snakes and ladders in front of a fire. And all you see is a shot down on the board of them playing snakes and ladders for a good like minute while they do it. And then a shot of him and he’s kind of bundled up, you know, by the fire, getting warm or whatever, laying down. And then a shot of her and again, bam, like it hits you in the face. She’s in the sexy lingerie. Just laying there in front of him. Oh my gosh, it’s so funny. And then of course she seduces him and leads him. The next thing you know, he’s in a fricking hot tub. But this hot tub.
Craig: A bathtub, not just a hot tub, like she’s bathing him.
Todd: It’s massive and it’s circular and it’s at the foot of this grand double staircase with this huge like marble chalice behind it and surrounded by plants and things. It’s meant to evoke a temple. Yeah. You know? And here he is kind of at the sacrificial altar and he stands up and you know and she’s washing him and again he’s just not mature enough to play into this but she’s washing him and as she goes a little further down and the camera comes up to his face she says
Craig: That’s the other thing about this movie. Like there are parts of it, like this part, but this part isn’t even, it’s not even 1 of the more suggestive parts. Like it is overtly sexual. Yeah. Like so sexual. And like you get this, like she’s, I don’t remember if she had a sponge or if she’s just using her hands or whatever, but I swear to God, if I were a 13 year old Boy, I would have probably watched this scene 4 or 5 times in a row, depending on how many times I needed to watch it. But like, you know, it’s so overtly sexual. It’s crazy. And it gets even crazier than that later with like these crazy enormous fallacies. Like oh my god it’s nuts. We’ll get there.
Todd: Well she has this and if you’re paying attention to And I’d love to look in the background and kind of look for out for this sort of stuff But if you pay attention even in other scenes scenes that don’t even take place at this house that have nothing to do with her There are a lot strong phallic images in the background like even Hugh Grant’s character James When he’s getting into bed and by the way this guy lives in a literal castle. This is like, Marie Kondo went on vacation and several generations of families gathered all the junk they possibly could and just kept it in every cram, packed it into every nook and cranny of this house. It in itself is almost a parody of this sort of gothic
Craig: trope. It’s so funny. It’s a perfect role for Hugh Grant. I’m really not a Hugh Grant fan because he just seems like such a stuffy asshole. Pretty much everything that I’ve heard about him in real life suggests that that’s really kind of how he is. But he has this very stuffy way of talking, you know? Like, oh god. And he’s just perfect in this role. Like, he wakes up in bed and like his butler is just, you know, waiting for him to wake up and he’s like, Oh, Jeeves, bring me the paper. Like it’s so ridiculous. It’s so funny.
Clip: I don’t think I’ll be able to make it
Craig: to the breakfast table today. Like, oh my god.
Todd: You might as well have a pipe in his mouth. Yeah,
Craig: it’s great. Right, but he’s perfect for it because it works.
Todd: I think it’s parody. You know, I really do think it’s true parody. And that’s what’s kind of charming about this movie but also why it’s just a little dis- it adds to the disjoineness of it I think. At times it looks cheap, at times it’s kind of a clever parody of these films, at times it’s almost naked gun-ish in its parody and some of the stuff that they’re saying. And at other times, it’s really just quite well structured and quite visually arresting, you know? Yeah. So it’s kind of all of these things in 1 movie. And like what you said, where it just kind of hits you in the face, on a more subconscious level, a lot of these things sort of hit you in the face as you’re watching it.
Craig: There really are really funny things about it too. So Sylvia eventually kills Kevin, like, you know, poor little Kevin. She First, does she bite him? I think she bites him, so he’s paralyzed or something. And then she’s going to sacrifice him, because I guess presumably he’s a virgin, she’s going to sacrifice him to the worm, but then the doorbell rings and it’s James, and so she has to hide him. So she just sticks him under the water and he drowns, you know, presumably, whatever. But before that, like when they’re talking and playing Snakes and Ladders, she’s like, maybe we should have a little music. And as she goes to the record player to put on a record, apparently he pulls out a harmonica and he starts playing it. And this is my favorite part of the whole movie is like, I guess, I don’t even know what the requirements are, but there’s certain music, like when this kid starts playing the harmonica, like she’s enthralled, like he’s snake charming her, and she has to do a little snake charm dance. And it happens several times. And it happens later. Oh, God, I know I’m jumping way, way ahead. Eventually that cop, the wonky-eyed cop that we talked about, We find out later that he has been turned into 1 of these snake people and somebody snake charms him and he does the snake charm dance. And it’s so funny. Oh my god. But it’s just hilarious. That’s like their only weakness. Like they’re these skillful killers and evil plotters or whatever. But whip out your harmonica or your bagpipes And you can charm them and force them to do a little dance for you.
Todd: And then even earlier, even later, or is it earlier than that, Hugh Grant, this character James, gets this idea and puts these massive speakers on top of the castle.
Craig: Of his house, yeah.
Todd: And then finds, goes through his parents’ records. In something that could have been just a quick scene, like, oh, I know my parents had this record of some snake charm or whatever, here it is, and he puts it on the thing. It’s long, this is like a 10 minute scene where he finds a record, he thinks it, and he asks for the butler’s opinion. And as soon as he starts playing the record, it’s right but it’s not quite right. And suddenly there’s a close-up on the butler’s face and he gets this like licentious look in his face and starts getting all hot and sweaty like,
Clip: That certainly conjures to mind a selfish charmer, my lord. 1 of the feminine gender your father empowered in Istanbul. She was, what is euphemistically known as a… Deadly dancer? Maybe try the B-side, my lord.
Todd: And as soon as that starts going and blasting out across the town, the next shot is of… There’s a giant wicker basket. No lie. Yes! Next to the fireplace and the woman slowly starts rising out of it. Like, what? Was she just hanging out in this wicker basket the whole time?
Craig: Oh my god, yeah, it’s so funny. And I knew, like, I almost feel like I predicted it a little bit in my mind. I’m like, oh my God. And I think in my mind it was kind of like, what could happen here is that this lady could be in like a wicker snake basket and come out. Yep. Yep, there it is.
Todd: It was perfect. It’s true, but like the whole movie is imminently predictable. You basically know what’s going on. You’re at least 4 steps ahead of everybody else in this. But then again, it doesn’t take them long to catch up either. There’s a scene where they kind of sit down at the table, these 4 characters, these 4 main characters, and end up bing bang boom, putting 2 and 2 and 4 and 4 and everything together, and basically have it all figured out. They’ve just got to go and investigate and find out where the worm is. And that’s where all these little plans and things hatch, which in itself is really funny because again, I think it’s just sort of parody. I really do. I really see this movie in many ways as a parody of these kinds of films, but I enjoyed that part of it. I liked the fact that he was telegraphing everything in advance. You know, even before the police officer reveals himself as a snake, you know it’s coming. Sure. He pulls up and asks Mary’s character to come with him and he has to identify a body because apparently her sister, no, her mother, has been found and killed. We’ll get to that in a minute. But when he pulls his car up to her it’s interesting the shot is directly on the car but there is a big bright reflection in the windshield Where his head would be so you can’t even tell who she’s talking to in the car Even though you know, it’s the policeman because you can hear his voice and there’s something very unsettling about that You know to see these 2 characters talking to each other but 1 of them is deliberately obscured. And then when she walks inside, there’s this long shot of him, just his face. And he’s not really, it’s not like he gives a creepy evil smile, but just the fact that they’ve zoned in on this guy’s face and he’s kind of twitching a little bit, just for a few seconds, shows you, okay, this guy, something’s up with him, right? He’s bit
Craig: or whatever. And I
Todd: feel like most movies would hold that out until later, because later when she’s trying, when he comes around to the other side of the car, she notices that he’s bit in the wrist and that kind of would have been the moment when you’d think okay This is when the reveal should be but no he telegraphs it way earlier And he does that with everything like you know from the beginning that this woman is this white yeah Snake you know you know from the beginning that all I mean almost all of these things are telegraphed way in advance. And it’s got to be, I think it’s intentional, you know, I don’t think it’s just sloppy filmmaking or bad writing. I just think that they meant for you to not really watch this movie and be in suspense, you know, as to what’s going to happen. There’s plenty of shock coming at you without the suspense of the plot getting in your way.
Craig: Well, and that was my favorite part. I’m not gonna race out and read Bram Stoker’s novel, but I wonder how closely it sticks to the source material. I have no idea, but you’re right. My favorite things about the movie were those crazy, you know, ultimately it’s basically a mystery. Like These 2 girls’ parents have been missing for a while and they found the dad’s watch or whatever and they found it in this cavern and they’re putting together little things here and there. Hugh Grant will say totally stupid stuff like, oh, maybe this cavern was the home of the dragon. I mean, it’s just, all that’s kind of, you know, it’s fine, you know, as far as moving the plot forward. But the interesting stuff is the surreal stuff. Like at 1 point, he, James, has a dream where he’s on an airplane. Oh my god. The girls’ parents are there, but they’re catatonic. And then the girls are like stewardesses and then lady Sylvie is there and she’s like an evil stewardess. Like they fight
Todd: and stuff. It’s like snake airlines.
Craig: Oh my god, it’s so, it’s, there’s so much, you know, sexuality, like lots of shots of like garter belts and legs and stuff.
Todd: And the stewardesses start wrestling in the middle and while he’s watching he’s holding a marker that he slowly like rises.
Craig: It’s so in
Todd: your face.
Craig: Oh my God, that was so funny. Oh, God, what do I have? I have something written in my, marker boner, is what I have written down. Oh my God, so funny. And then, you know, they go and they explore the cavern and 1 of the girls, Eve, is like, well, I don’t want to do this. So Mary’s like, okay, well, you can leave. So she like starts to go home. And then Lady Sylvia is like just casually up in a tree and she’s like, oh, I chased a kitten up here, but now I can’t get down. And so Eve helps her get down. Obviously then Eve is hypnotized and Sylvia takes her back to her manor or whatever. Then Sylvia is naked in a tanning bed and like she gets out of the tanning bed and she’s naked. And then she has this like 3 foot phallus, like a ceremonial phallus or something. And she goes into this whole monologue.
Clip: Do you believe in reincarnation, Eve? I do. But then I am immortal. And I have seen the same souls inhabit different beings throughout history. I’ve seen you before Eve, many centuries ago. In the time of my lover, the great Emperor Cerausius.
Craig: Yes, I can see
Clip: you now on your knees, blindly worshiping your false god. Fancy praying to a god who was nailed to a wooden cross.
Craig: And she tells this Eve to get undressed, which she does, except like, she takes everything off except her shirt and then Sylvie’s like, oh, that’s enough. Like, God forbid you get totally nude in this, you know, since I am, who knows, whatever. And then she’s rubbing this phallus like up her inner leg and like then it cuts to Eve’s face and she’s like, like what are you doing to her? Like stop it! Like Oh my god, just crazy, crazy stuff.
Todd: She’s checking to see if she’s a virgin. That’s what she’s doing. And she finds out she is, so she decides she’s going to be her sacrifice.
Craig: Yeah. And then they do that whole setup where James invites Sylvia over. He doesn’t invite her, he snake charms her over, like you said, with the huge speakers. And so the other 2, Mary and Angus, sneak into the house where they find the girl’s mother, but she’s a snake person now. That was scary. It was scary.
Todd: Yeah, that was a scary scene. Of course, the mother is sitting by herself. This is the first time we’ve seen the mother.
Craig: Except for in the dream. She was in the dream.
Todd: Right, and it’s strange. Like, you don’t even think she’s gonna be alive and you’re watching this thinking is she an apparition or something like that she just sitting in a very empty room because no room of this house has more than 1 piece of furniture in it but she’s watching TV and of course there’s a snake program or something on TV and as they approach her she turns around and suddenly she’s that crazy, creepy snake woman with the huge fangs and the eyes. And it’s like you said earlier, it’s really good makeup. It’s kind of like how Fright Night, like the makeup kind of made that movie. It’s the same way here, right? It just, it makes it scary. And it’s good because it could have been super hokey. That wouldn’t have been the right balance. The movie’s already a bit hokey.
Craig: Well, and it’s even like she’s sitting, the mom is sitting in this huge room with maybe a fireplace or something, but it’s just like this huge empty room and she’s just watching this little 1980s TV and it’s just, she’s watching this video of Sylvia like dancing with a python, which again gets very sexual. Like there’s closeups of the snake’s tail like curling up under Sylvia’s vag. Like it’s very… Yeah,
Todd: she’s got her mouth open approaching its head. Yeah,
Craig: it’s totally… Like she puts the whole snake’s head in her mouth like, ugh, It’s crazy.
Todd: Just like Alice Cooper used to do. True, true.
Craig: And then the mom attacks and bites her. But I guess because Angus is an archaeologist, he knows that you have to suck snake venom out. So he does. And She’s okay, I guess. While that’s happening, James is waiting for Sylvia to arrive, which she doesn’t, but like his power goes out and he sends the butler down to check things out or whatever. And the butler screams and then the mom, the snake mom, jumps out at him. Leaps. Yeah, I’m not really sure how she got there so quickly. But she did. She leaps out at him and he grabs this sword that is at least as big as he is. Oh yeah,
Todd: it’s this huge, long, like 6 foot medieval sword that, you know, again, probably the same sword, you know, that’s been in their family for generations that killed the, you know, the worm or whatever. It’s
Craig: fun. It’s a great shot, like, it’s in slow-mo and he like does like kind of a little pirouette kind of deal and yes like and slices her in half in slow motion and like it’s nothing like And then right
Todd: He could just lay that down and smoke a cigarette. It is so funny, I think. But it’s so in keeping with his character. And then again, he turns around and he calls Angus and they have a chat. And he’s just so swab about it, you know, it’s like, yeah, my power’s out. Yeah, I know. Well, don’t worry, I’ll take care of it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Just, I just soaked all that up. It was like James Bond wandered onto the set of Bram Stoker’s Dracula. Yeah. Yeah.
Craig: Yeah. It was really funny. When Mary’s mom, I guess, bit her, then there was more… It’s like you can’t call them flashbacks. I guess they’re more like visions. Like anytime they get bitten or they touch the venom or whatever, like they have these visions. But then there’s this crazy, and you’re right, it’s so much like an 80s music video. Like it’s all Technicolor and it’s Sylvia, like she’s all blue and she opens her mouth wide open and there are like these guys like dancing in her mouth and then they come out and they like Rape Mary and it’s crazy We eventually we eventually get some explanation Sylvia explains to Eve that you know this Dionin or whatever is this ancient demon it’s all very kind of the Cthulhu guy.
Todd: Oh yeah it’s very Lovecraftian.
Craig: Yeah it’s very Lovecraftian.
Todd: And she kind of, especially later when we’re in the lair and she goes off on another 1 of these diatribes, she kind of explains that this whole serpent thing dates back to the Garden of Eden. And so this Dionin is really like the serpent that was in the Garden of Eden and it’s been the serpent, you know, throughout history or whatever.
Craig: Right. You know, it gets all into religious stuff like how God expelled him and blah, blah, blah, whatever. But it turns out that they had this temple for Dionin and then these nuns tried to build a convent on top of that and that’s where all this nun imagery comes from.
Todd: It’s so silly.
Craig: And it is and they try they do some stupid archaeological stuff too like they try they go visit this cave which is an amazing location. Oh my gosh. It’s absolutely stunningly gorgeous, this cave location.
Todd: It was a real cave too, that they use for that.
Craig: It’s amazing. And it looks like a dragon’s lair. Like it’s very kind of circular, like you can imagine a serpent, you know, a giant serpent snaking through this place. Very, very cool.
Todd: And it’s in the, cut in the side of a mountain where, you know, when you’re inside looking out, you’re looking down across the horizon.
Craig: It’s so beautiful, yeah. Yeah, it’s really cool. Hugh Grant, James, I don’t know. I didn’t even follow all of this. Like somehow there’s like a crack in the ground and the snake is trapped down there. I don’t know.
Todd: It’s kind of loose. And it’s stupid how he comes to these realizations. You know, it’s total movie BS really.
Craig: Right. The cop, okay, So the cop picks up Mary the morning after all of this hullabaloo takes place and he says that he’s taking her to the police station But first they have to pick up Sylvia and like you said you can tell immediately that he’s Evil And so he takes her to Sylvia’s house. She tries to run away, but then he turns into Snake Man with the big teeth and the scary red eyes. But then Angus pops up out of nowhere playing the bagpipes. This, it has to be, You know, as I was watching it, I didn’t really think that it was intentional comedy, but talking to you about it now, it just had to be. Oh yeah. It just had to be, because not only does Angus just pop up out of nowhere playing the bagpipes, but he’s like in full Scottish regalia. Like, he’s in his kilt and like the knee socks and like.
Todd: And they have this awful, awful goofy little dance between the 2 of them where they’re just kind of more or less stepping around each other outside around a
Craig: Him and the cop! The big fat cop! It’s so funny!
Todd: Actually the cop leaps on him, gets the better of him, which I thought was surprising. And just before he can bite him, he throws him back and the cop gets impaled on a snake-shaped sundial. And again, so comedy, like this guy’s got these wonky eyes, right? And what happens when he gets impaled on the sundial, but 1 of those sundials is jutting straight up through his eye and the eye is the end of the sundial like ha ha.
Craig: Oh god. Okay so then so Mary is inside now. We don’t even see how this happens but somehow she’s captured and she gets tied up like in this evil pit and Eve is also in there like just in her bra and panties like tied up in this pit.
Todd: Oh, it’s this it’s classic It’s like 1920s or 30s kind of adventure movie type stuff.
Craig: Yeah, it’s Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom kind of stuff.
Todd: In a cave with a big, big glowing pit and these girls are in their underwear, you know, dangling over it tied by ropes. It’s, You just have to laugh. It’s so hilarious.
Craig: It is pretty funny. And Angus goes in there and he injects himself with something, which I was a little bit curious about, but whatever. It makes sense later. And then he lets loose a mongoose, like this mongoose is gonna lead him to Sylvia, which it does, I guess.
Todd: She’s just in the next room after all.
Craig: Right, she’s just behind the curtain like 10 feet away. But she jumps out at him and she’s like buck naked and all she’s blue at this point and she bites him and drags him into the pit for no apparent reason because he’s supposedly dying and then he supposedly dies but he’s not because again it makes no sense eventually but supposedly what he injected himself was like anti-venom or whatever. Then we see a scene of James, Hugh Grant, or whatever has a whole crew in the cave and in the cavern, which I didn’t even understand.
Todd: I didn’t understand this bit at
Craig: all, yeah. I didn’t understand it, like he’s just absent from this last scene, so they filmed him in the cave with a crew, I have no idea what’s going on there. Anyway, but then Sylvia like summons Dionin or Dionin or whatever it is and then she straps on that huge phallus.
Todd: With a point in the
Craig: end. Yes, and it’s like she’s going to penetrate Eve with it, but then the snake starts to come out of the pit so she doesn’t have time, she’s like, oh darn. Guess no time for this.
Todd: Yeah, she literally says, time for ritual, no time for ceremony. And goes up and starts to cut her loose so she’ll fall in. But at this point, Angus wakes up, he runs over, and he ends up pushing Sylvia into the pit instead. There’s a bit of dangling and a bit of cutting. He leans over to cut off her hand in order to cut her loose from holding onto Sylvia’s legs, which is rather silly.
Craig: Right, holding onto Eve’s legs.
Todd: Eve’s legs, sorry.
Craig: No, it’s fine. The smoke is coming out of the pit, and you hear these roars and stuff, And then all of a sudden, the head of the snake appears. And it looks kind of cool. And I read that it was like a VW Beetle that they just painted up to look like a snake. Like they just like, like the hood of the beetle, like they just opened and closed. That’s so weird. But it looks pretty good.
Todd: It did look good.
Craig: But yeah, he drops Sylvia in there and then, you know, He pulls a grenade out of his pocket.
Todd: From under his kilt. He pulls a grenade out from under his kilt. Where were you holding this grenade?
Craig: And he drops it in the snake’s mouth, and the snake explodes. And then there’s just a cute little James and Angus meet up outside 1 of the chateaus or whatever and they just have a little chat. And Angus says something like, well, you drove the snake out to us. Well, I don’t have any idea how that happened.
Todd: Yeah, that was kind of bizarre. And this is where I thought the movie should more or less end. You know, these 2 guys, they look like each other anyway, just out having a smoke and walking off into the sunset. But there’s this tail end to it. I guess the horror movie needs a tail end like this. Angus goes back inside. He gets a phone call from the hospital, which he had developed a serum apparently. And they say, yeah, there was this mix up. And the serum that we gave you was actually just anti-arthritis medicine. But I’ve got the serum here and you can come in and pick it up tomorrow. And he looks at himself in the mirror and starts to lick his lips and then he goes out and he sits next to Hugh Grant in the car and they’re going to drive along. And then we get more of this sort of double entendre.
Craig: Look, I don’t know about you, but I’m famished. We stop on the way for a bite. Why not? So he’s a snake person now. Yeah. That was kind of giving me little shades of an American werewolf in London. Yes. Kind of like that buddy, you know, jokey kind of thing. Oh man, I swear this is 1 of the more bizarre movies that we’ve ever done. And I can’t believe I’ve never heard of it, especially, you know, Hugh Grant’s a famous guy. I can’t believe that I’ve never, I would have thought that I would have read something about, oh this crazy movie that Hugh Grant was in that nobody knows about or something, but I’d never heard anything. But I want to give a shout out to Robin who asked us to do this 1 because otherwise I would have never seen it. And it’s so crazy and so bizarre and I’m just glad to have seen it. It’s so weird and I have no interest in ever watching it again. But I’m glad to have seen it. It was surreal. It was a weird experience. And I have to admit that it was fun. Just because it was so bizarre, it was fun to watch, and I was really looking forward to talking to you about it today. Yeah, me too.
Todd: Thank you, Robin. Honestly, I really enjoyed it. Like you, I really enjoyed watching this movie almost from beginning to end. You know, it just took you in directions that you didn’t expect it to go. It was total wackadoodle at moments. It was very shocking at some times. It just kind of checked all my boxes in a way that somehow worked. You know, these kind of movies aren’t always gonna work. It’s better than…the only other Ken Russell movie I’ve seen is Altered States. And Altered States also takes a strong left turn where it gets kind of crazy and bizarre. And that 1 didn’t really work for me as well. It just didn’t seem very plausible even within the realm of the movie, the direction that that film took. But this movie, even though all kinds of crazy and plausible thing happens. This is 1 of the only horror movies that Ken Russell’s ever done. And it just seems like he chose to do more of a sendup of the genre, you know, than anything else. And it kind of succeeded for me in a way that a lot of these, you know, we do a lot of these parodies. We do a lot of these send ups of horror films. There’s, you know, it’s, there are a dime a dozen nowadays, but this is 1 that’s kind of stands in a category all of its own. And also, you know, it gives us the opportunity. I often think about this, Craig, you know, you and I have been doing this podcast, we’re going on over 160 episodes now, we’re in this genre where you just see shocking things all the time, right? And we’ve, I mean, the stuff that we’ve talked about on this podcast, you know, and it’s helping us, you know, do this checklist. And I just checked off today, Marker Boner. We got to… Yeah, that’s
Craig: a good 1. But I appreciate that it was bold, you know, it was bold in its imagery, you know, that was, I don’t know, who knows who the intended audience was but that could potentially have been offensive to many people And I like that it didn’t shy away from that it didn’t shy away from the
Clip: overt sexuality It
Craig: didn’t shy away from the overt sexuality. It didn’t shy away from the arguably sacrilegious imagery. You know, if you’re going to do it, go for it. And I feel like they did. So kudos for that. Not to say that that makes it a great movie by any speciality of imagination, but you know, if you’re gonna, you know, go balls out, do it. Yeah. And I appreciate that.
Todd: Well, I think that’s Ken Russell’s MO. I think you and I, we should put the devils on our list. We’re going to have to watch that, you know, whatever version we can find.
Craig: Sure, maybe.
Todd: Well, thank you again Robin for this wonderful selection. We really enjoyed watching it. We always enjoy watching your requests. It gives us a chance to do some things that we on our own might not think about doing. And certainly this movie really tops that list. You can get online and find us at our Facebook page. Just search for 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. You can also go on our webpage, twoguyz.red40net.com and start a conversation with us. Introduce us to other films that we might not find on our own. Let us know what your favorite is, what you thought of this film. We love having those conversations with you. And we always appreciate it. If you forward this podcast onto a friend who you think might like it, spread the word a little bit. It helps keep us motivated to do this week in week out. Until next time I’m Todd and I’m Craig with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.