Poltergeist 2: The Other Side (1986)

Episode 161, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:Hello and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Continuing our month of sequels, we decided to dive into a sequel that we haven’t actually done the original for yet, surprisingly enough. This 1 is Poltergeist 2 The Other Side, which came out in 1986 and after watching this film again for the first time in ages, I think I realized I remember more about this movie than I do the original. Yeah. We used to watch this all the time as kids. I think we had it on tape. Yet I have   forgotten so much about it. Like I knew I had key scenes in my head, but as far as the whole plot and kind of how it all went down that much was new to me again for the fresh for the first time so it was fun to watch this a second time around the original movie made a big splash Toby Hooper directed it Stephen Spielberg produced it and there has always been some speculation that maybe Steven Spielberg did a little bit more than just producing it. He was on set a lot of the time but we   get a lot of conflicting stories about that. That’s the original. The second 1 here was directed by a guy named Brian Gibson. Brian Gibson is a British director and before this he really didn’t do a whole lot. He directed a bunch of videos for Sticks and shot a movie called Breaking Glass. So this was kind of his first big time film. And then the producers and writers of the original poltergeist came back on to write the screenplay for this 1 as well. And Jerry Goldsmith came back on to do the score for this and he actually   won an award for this, the score. And the score is great. I have to say it’s fantastic score. He did something a little bit different than he did for the original, but it just turned out wonderful. In fact, the minute, you know, about 5 minutes into this movie, I was just thinking, God, this movie is like so Spielberg. Yeah. I mean, He had nothing to do with it, but the movie just feels like a Spielberg movie from the very beginning. It’s like it was intentionally filmed that way.

Craig:Yeah. And I think that some of that has to do with the score. I talk about this a lot. I don’t know if I’ve talked about it on the podcast, but I talk about it with my partner and my friends and stuff. When we were growing up in the 80s, movies so often had these amazing orchestral scores. To be fair, This 1 isn’t as orchestral as the first movie was. He played more with synthesizers and electronic stuff, but there’s still the very iconic Carol Anne’s theme that runs throughout this 1, which is really familiar. And you   just don’t get that much anymore. I just feel like filmmakers anymore just don’t worry about or think about   score so much anymore. But it made such a big difference. You know, like you think about E.T. And like you said, Steven Spielberg movies, but it wasn’t just him. Lots of people were doing it. And the scores were so memorable that the moment you hear them it strikes a chord with you and I think that that’s why some of these movies or at least in part why some of these movies are so memorable to me at least.

Todd:Yeah and you hear it and you instantly know you’re in for a certain caliber of film. And I don’t know if it’s just a chicken and egg thing, you know, but you also feel like, okay, this is gonna be a PG family-friendly movie, you know, which this is. And the original Poltergeist was. I mean, considering it’s a horror film, it has some horror elements, but the horror element, nobody dies, it’s not gory, you know, none of that stuff. So it is a movie you can watch with your family. In fact, I think this movie and Poltergeist   were both rated PG at the time, but have subsequently gotten a PG-13 moniker because at the time they were released, the PG-13 didn’t exist yet, yeah?

Craig:Well, at least the first 1.   I mean, this 1 is PG-13, but I think that you’re right. The first 1 was PG, and surely would have been PG-13 had that rating been available, but it wasn’t. But you’re right. I mean, it’s scary. I mean, I think both movies are scary movies, but you’re right in both. You know, there are 3 of them in the original trilogy. I choose to ignore the remake. It was terrible. But in the original trilogy, there are there’s only 1 violent death in all 3. And that’s in the third 1. And even it is pretty tame. So, yeah,   but still, I loved these movies when I was a kid, but maybe a little bit too scary for some kids, but when it comes down to it, yeah, there’s really not a whole lot of violence, if any at all, really, and no violent deaths. Like you said, it’s more just like kind of a haunted house kind of thing, a spooky kind of thing. And there’s imminent danger, but ultimately everybody’s okay and it’s fine.

Todd:Yeah, you know, I can’t say I really enjoyed it that much watching it again as an adult and maybe in this day and age Maybe in the 80s it passed a little better than than it does now This is a movie I’d watch with my son and he’d probably really like it for sure when he’s old enough But as an adult I felt this movie had a lot of problems. More than anything, I felt like it was just a little too… I don’t know, like the original had focus, right? The original had… It was basically a   haunted house story. There are all these creepy things happening. It starts out with this poltergeist activity with things moving around, and it gets more and more intense in this family. They don’t know what’s going on. They call in a psychic who comes and tells them that they’re in danger and that their house is a problem. And their girl disappears. She gets sucked into the other side, right, and they enlist the help of this psychic to bring her back. And then at the end of it all, spoiler alert to anybody who hasn’t seen Boltergeist, but at the   end of it all, the big climax is this crazy scene just where the whole house seems to be coming apart and all the stuff is happening and they find out that the house was built on an ancient Indian burial ground which is why these things have been happening. And so the second movie takes that idea of the Indian burial ground just a little deeper, if I could

Craig:say. Yeah, literally.

Clip:It turns out like the Freelinks are the most,

Todd:I don’t know, like the most unlucky family in the world. Not only was their house built in an ancient Indian burial ground, but underneath that happens to be a cave where a whole other set of people came and went into basically the gist of it is that there was this preacher kind of like a Mormon thing it’s it’s well

Craig:it was it was a doomsday cult doomsday is what it

Todd:was yeah Mormon era right sort of doomsday cult taking is taking this group of people way out west who is following this charismatic leader we find out that his name was Cain, which is always a scary sounding name, a Cain, and he basically tells this group of people that the world’s going to end. They follow him into this cave, they seal themselves up. When the world doesn’t end, he forces them to stay down there and they all die. And so all of this is in a cave underneath the burial ground upon which their house was built.   Yeah. It’s a little silly, but okay.

Craig:Right, but okay, whatever. I mean, they had to introduce some new element so that’s fine And I actually find the character of Reverend Kane to be very scary and a lot of that has to do with his portrayal This guy was a character actor His name was Julian Beck and he did work as a kind of a character actor in theater and in film and this was like kind of a rare big role for him and he’s super creepy and sadly part of that is because he was dying of stomach cancer at the time and so   he’s got this really super gaunt look,

Todd:he’s got these

Craig:big eyes, like I mean he almost, he kind of looks like a human skeleton, you know, he’s so gaunt. And he is super, super creepy. I think that part of the reason that this, I agree with you that I much prefer the first movie. In fact, the first movie is probably 1 of my top 5 favorite movies, period. I love the first Poltergeist movie, it’s great. But 1 of the things that I feel like they couldn’t recapture is that the first third or so of Poltergeist is kind of this charming, cute story about a family. And   initially, when weird things start going on in their house, it’s almost like it’s fun, you know? That’s true. Like, oh my gosh, the chairs move. Like, this is so cool, come see it. And like, look, I can sit something in this spot in the kitchen and it will slide to this spot. And I can even sit our daughter, Carol Ann, in the spot and she’ll slide from 1 side of the kitchen to the other. And it’s fun, like it’s not scary at first, and it’s only when things start getting dangerous then it becomes scary. Well in   this movie they’ve already dealt with all of that, so As soon as things start happening, they know this isn’t something to be messed with. So a little bit of that charm from the initial movie is removed. And I agree that This movie isn’t as good. I still like it in reading the Trivia about it. I was interested to see that the original cut was like 2 hours and 11 minutes or something like that   and they cut it down here to just an hour and a half. And I’m glad that they did. Even though I think that there are parts of it that seem a little bit disjointed and there are parts of it that feel a little bit rushed, especially the finale.   Oh my gosh.   I can’t imagine a 2 and a half hour version of this because frankly, even though I felt like, you know, things were consistently happening, I was a little tiny, tiny bit bored.

Todd:Yeah. Well, I don’t think it has a lot of build. It starts out slowish. There’s an Indian, his name is Taylor, an American Indian named Taylor, and he goes to the top of this craggy hill. I don’t know how he got up there but anyway yeah sort of a spiritual vision thing and gets imbued with the powers I suppose of a healer through a whole bunch of special effects and a flame and this kind of ritual ceremony on the middle of nowhere. That comes into play later. We see him driving down a road. He’s called by,   I guess he’s called by Zelda Rubenstein’s character who was Tangeena from the first movie to the site of this house. This, I mean this is really basically picking up where the first 1 left off, almost immediately.

Craig:Pretty much. I think it’s supposed to be a year or 2 later. Oh, really? OK. I think so. But yeah, I mean, he goes back to Cuesta Verde, which is where the original site was. And he goes back to the house. And that’s like you said, they go deep down in there. And he sees all of these remains of these people, like underneath the Indian burial ground, like they don’t just wipe that away. Like, no, it really was an Indian burial ground.

Todd:Yeah.

Craig:But also, this doomsday cult, you know, also all died right underneath your house. And so, and now we’re gonna have to deal with that. Yeah. And I

Todd:feel like all of this is just kind of a convenience thing, like the writers are really grabbing at things to make a sequel for that is all going to tie in together because I’m just wondering why did they feel the need to dig further down and do further investigation here. You know, they find this cave and these people inside, and so he goes down, he checks it out, he senses an evil. Tangina senses an evil too. And then we jump right over to the Freelings who are now at the grandmother’s house. This is the mother of   the mother. We get this, I think we already kind of know it from the beginning, from the first movie that Carol Anne is a bit special. She can sense things more than the others. And it turns out that her grandmother also has this gift, that she has this sort of psychic ability. And so she notices this while they’re together and is talking with her mother who is played by Geraldine Fitzgerald. Classic Hollywood, yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, they’re there at this house for a while, I guess a year. There’s some moments where Carol Ann can   sense some things. She can see colors. She’s handing her yarn that she wants without looking at it. You know, she’s got the right colors or whatnot. She’s drawing creepy pictures of faces that will come up later. It’s pretty typical stuff. And then in a pretty interesting moment, the grandmother says good night to Carol, or Carol Ann goes in and says good night to the grandmother, kisses her on the cheek and walks away. When she goes into the basement, her little toy telephone rings and when she picks it up, she says, oh, hi, grandma. Oh, don’t worry.   Everything’s okay. All right. I love you too. Bye bye. Hangs up. And then the next morning we find out that grandmother passed away in the middle of the night. And Carol Ann is obviously was contacted from beyond the grave by her grandmother so You know we have this little element going but you know all of these scenes with the family are quite cute

Craig:Mm-hmm very Sweet

Todd:the nice thing about this family is that they really do care about each other. There’s none of this like tension Really nothing wrong here Which which is I don’t know that’s not actually I had remembered, you know in this movie I really remembered a breakdown of the father character played by Craig T. Nelson, Stephen, because at later point he’s drinking tequila and stuff and I think as a kid I was just associating the drinking and the alcohol with him you know kind of wrestling with stuff and I think the script is going in that direction by   the middle of the end of the movie, but either due to the cuts that were made or just the way it’s written or how fast the movie goes, I feel like that’s almost, it’s so downplayed as to be non-existent. Like we’re told that he’s having this emotional struggle, but we’re not seeing a really deep emotional struggle here throughout the movie I think it’s not deep enough anyway to really resonate with me I mean to the end at the end of the day He’s still very much connected to his family very much attached seems very much in   control He might not be making all the right decisions, but he’s still a decision maker making decisions through the movie, you know, he’s not incapacitated.

Craig:Right, well, I have, you know, you talking about, you know, how the family, you can tell that there’s a strong bond between them throughout. That’s true But that’s really kind of like the point of the movie I mean like that’s their strength is like that together. That’s true right And that they love each other and that their love can conquer all or whatever. And you do see that. And people emphasize that throughout. They say that the evil is going to try to break you up. They’re going to try to turn you against 1 another. But your   strength is that you are together and that you love each other as a family. And that’s where they draw their strength. And that was true in the first movie too. I will say, and I don’t know if it’s because of the writing or the direction or I have no idea what it is, but I felt like Craig T. Nelson’s performance in this movie was a little bit flat. I believed him more in the first movie. In this movie, he feels kind of more like, Oh, I’m the goofy dad.

Todd:The whole time.

Craig:Yeah. And then he gets very sinister at the end when he kind of becomes, well, spoiler alert again, but frankly, literally possessed, really, at 1 point. And that’s scary, but beyond that, he’s painted a little goofier in this movie than he was in the first, which I don’t love. You know, it doesn’t kill me, it doesn’t take me out of it, but it’s not great. Before the grandma dies though, there’s this great scene that I love, like they’re at a shopping center, the mom and the 2 kids. There were 3 kids in the original movie. There   was an older sister named Dana. And this gets down to there’s, we could probably do a whole episode about the poltergeist curse. But the oldest daughter from the first movie was murdered. The actress who played her was murdered by her boyfriend shortly after filming the first movie. And so she doesn’t appear in this movie. And apparently in a deleted scene, they explain that she was off at college. Really, like, you could just assume that, you know? Like, she was old enough in the first movie, you would assume she was off at college or she had moved   out or whatever. But anyway, so the mom is at a shopping center, like an outdoor shopping center with the 2 kids. This creepy guy, Carolanne kind of gets separated from Robbie and the mom. And this creepy guy, this ghostly guy, who Carolanne sees people like walking through him. Like he’s clearly like an apparition, follows her around. And again, It’s this Reverend Kane, and he’s dressed in like period clothing Which apparently nobody finds to be odd? And he he talks to her and he sings to her.

Clip:Alright, I’ll sing your song till your mom comes back. God is here, his holy town. Earthly fall, be silent now.

Craig:And so we know that this is basically the new villain who is pursuing her. And as it turns out, we’re meant to believe That though he didn’t appear in the first movie he was part of   the entity or the evil entity or it was at least a witness to what happened in the original movie and he needs Carol Anne to fulfill his purpose to lead his people out of the earthly realm into the light. And so he’s after the beginning. Again, I really can’t say enough about how creepy Julian Beck’s performance is. Like, it’s nightmarish. I mean, especially if you’re a kid, I mean, you know, like, which is when I saw this, you know, he’s the creepy guy that your parents warned you about. Don’t talk to strangers. You know, like,

Todd:so creepy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. If you just see this guy, you would want to spend more than 5 minutes with him. He just, his whole appearance. And then his performance is quite good too. He speaks very slowly and very deliberately, whether it’s just the way his face is or whether it’s very deliberate to he really makes a point of opening his mouth a lot showing his teeth and Just being very deliberate about what he says. It sounds it feel it sounds calculated kind of like a cunning person Yeah, but Yet he’s also trying to come across   as a slow, deliberate kind of preacher character, which, you know, that’s kind of a character trait of some, you know, Southern Baptist or evangelical type preachers. It’s just sort of slow. So, I mean, it all really fits well. It’s played quite well. You know, I was looking up more about this actor and I was so surprised to hear that he was a big pioneer in avant-garde theater, in the avant-garde theater world. I mean he was born like 1925 But he got together with a group of people and they were doing something called the Living Theater where   they did these extremely experimental and controversial type theater performances. Eventually they had to do it like in people’s homes because they were getting arrested for stuff like indecent exposure and public nuisance and they would do shows where they would like like go into the audience and do all this audience participation like you like apparently also they were big anarchists And they were big on LSD and drug use. And so he would be high on LSD. They would all be tripping on LSD when they were doing their performances and stuff like that. 1 time they were doing   a show about drug users and there were actors walking around amongst the audience, like yelling at audience members, trying to get them to give them money for their next fix you know. Another 1 like they wrote off like a list of social taboos and 1 of them was public nudity and they’re doing this while they’re taking their clothes off which is 1 of the things that would get them arrested. Like this, this guy who’s like in his sixties or so, by the time this movie comes out and is sure to die had a really interesting career   behind him. But, yeah, you know, I think that this character, the thing that I think bothered me so much about this movie, and I think you pointed to it about I think Greg T. Nelson’s acting sort of flat in this movie really contributed to it, but the other aspect of it is is it seems like the way that this Kane character is trying to get into them is by driving a wedge between the dad and the family, like trying to play on his supposed inadequacies and his feelings like he can’t be a man. But I don’t   really see that, you know, he’s being told about it. Well, there’s a scene after the 1 you mentioned, and after the grandmother dies, where this guy walks up to the house, Cain, and it instantly starts raining, which should be your first clue, by the way. It’s like only raining over the house. He walks up to the door and he’s singing a hymn and he has a dialogue with the family outside and he’s trying to get into the house. Oh, just let me in, just let me in. And then he starts talking about how, a little bit   more and more about how he knows what’s going on with them. At this point, they have already met, I skipped a bit, but they already met this tailor guy, which is big. I guess I should talk about that first, right? The Native American Indian tailor shows up at their house and tells them that they’re in grave danger and he’s been sent by… Tangina. Tangina to

Craig:help them. Well, and this is after, I mean, we very early on in the movie, right after the grandma dies, there’s a big scene where big clouds come up over the house and the phone rings again, the toy phone, but this time it’s not grandma, it’s somebody scary that Carol Ann talks to and like.   The whole house shakes and all this crazy stuff is happening, the toys all come to life and are walking around and. Just like before basically. Right, just like before, exactly. And you know, the parents, it all happens very quickly and the parents bust into the kids room and they find the kids and Carol Ann turns and looks at them and says they’re back just like they’re here from the first movie. You got to get the tagline back in there. So at this point, at this point, they know that this crap is happening again. And then that’s   when Taylor shows up. And Carol Anne likes him right away, but Stephen the dad is very skeptical of him.

Todd:Yeah, and he shows himself as the mystical Native American. You know, it’s sort of this trope and I think nowadays it feels a little weird.

Craig:It does, but the funny thing is he really was.

Todd:Yeah, true.

Craig:Like the actor who played him. This is the same guy, Will Sampson, who played the silent patient in 1 Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest Chief, I think. But in real life, this guy was a shaman, like, for several different tribes. And once again, you know, I read this in the in the trivia. They say, because later on there are scenes where there are skeletons and corpses and cadavers and stuff, and they said that Some of them were real because it was cheaper than getting the fake ones Well, that was true in the first movie too, and   they say you know the actors didn’t know well You would think that the actors would at least be suspicious in the first movie Jo Beth Williams was in a pool with all these skeletons that were real. And she didn’t know it at the time, but she found out later. 1 would think that they might at least be suspicious the second time around, but apparently not. And lots of weird stuff happened. They did a whole day of shooting with these real corpses and the film all came out totally blank, just black, and they had to go back   and do hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of reshoots. And so they thought that the set was possessed so Will Sampson who played Taylor came in and did an exorcism of the set like quit using real bodies   You guys.

Todd:I get that it’s cheap.

Craig:You’re right. I get that it’s cheaper, but man, think about the other costs. It’s just so weird.

Todd:Like what do you do? You walk into the Hollywood props closet and there’s a door that says fake corpses and another door that says real corpses. I guess I’ll take 5 of those and we’re gonna cut a little bit of money I’ll take 3 of those over there.

Clip:Okay.

Craig:I get what you’re saying. I get what you’re saying. You know, it seems you know the the Native American Spiritual guide or shaman or whatever like it seems like a trope and it does and it was but in this case Turns out he really was that guy

Todd:Yeah, maybe they did need special effects for the moment where he’s raised his hands in the air and all the butterflies are floating around him and they’re on.

Clip:I think, you know, there’s nothing wrong.

Todd:I mean, you should be able to do this, right? You should be able to do something like this as long as you’re being respectful and you’re not making fun of it or whatever. Of course, there’s mysticism in Native American religions and all that. You should be able to have a shaman doing shamanistic things and wonder, just like you could have a magician doing crazy stuff or whatever.

Craig:Or a priest or whatever.

Todd:There’s a billion of that, right? So no big deal, really. It just feels a little weird. And I think it feels especially weird because it’s so super magical, like with Jerry Goldsmith’s score behind it. And they’re looking out the window and just abject wonder with these like bright smiles on their faces. Again, it’s like total Spielberg and he sits sitting there just staring up into the sky and these butterflies are twirling around him. It’s sort of like, oh, come on, you know, it’s almost like a cartoon at that point. But anyway, okay. So we’ve got him,   he’s there. Craig T. Nelson’s character, the Stephen, the dad, is a little skeptical of him, but not skeptical enough, apparently, to keep him from living in their backyard. So he’s in a tent in their backyard.

Craig:So long as he’ll work on the car.

Todd:Yeah, exactly. That’s basically it. Because the car is angry. So this is going on. And in the meantime, as I was talking about earlier, Cain comes walking up to the house and he has this whole dialogue with them. Now,

Clip:you are in danger. What do you mean? I’m with an organization who’s concerned with families like your own, families in crisis, that are preyed upon by charlatans with fake magic and false solutions. I don’t expect

Todd:you to

Clip:believe me now, but let me come in and talk to you about it.”

Todd:And finally, the father sends the rest of the family inside, steps behind the screen glass, the screen door closes it so that he’s got something between him and this guy. And it’s just a really creepy scene, dialogue that goes between them. It’s so, and I don’t know if they film this on a different day, if they intentionally did something different with his makeup or if it just looked different between the screen? Because as their conversation goes on, Kane seems to like look more and more gaunt and menacing, just like physically. Did you get that feeling?

Craig:Well, he, yes. And you know, all these special effects and things that happen throughout like that’s scary and exciting But like I feel like this is 1 of the creepiest scenes And I think that part of it is just that we as viewers I Think that Stephen the character picks up on it eventually but just the manipulation tactics of this guy, it’s believable because you can believe that This would be a guy who would be able to manipulate a group of people into believing that it was in their best interest to go underground to endure the   end of the world or whatever. Yeah. And, you know, that’s just kind of a spooky thing. You know, ministers, spiritual leaders, they have to have a certain charisma or something in order to get people to listen to them and to believe them.

Todd:Yeah, it’s true.

Craig:And some people, you know, can use that in bad ways. That’s what it feels like here. Like he’s saying, I’m here to help you. I want to help you. And, you know, this other guy who you’re listening to is bad. Don’t listen to him. And he totally plays on Stephen’s insecurities about being able to protect his family, about being a good father, about being a man, questioning just his manhood and his masculinity and can you protect your family? Can you lead your family? And it works.

Todd:Like

Craig:he’s almost, and he’s got this hypnotic thing going on, which you can see in the performance. And I think they do a good job here where you see that somehow Kane, he locks in eye contact with Steven. And when they’re locked in, he kind of has this hypnotic power over him. And then I feel like Carol Anne says something off from you know the distance from back behind Stephen and it diverts his attention away for just a second but that’s enough to break the spell.

Todd:That’s right.

Craig:Oh it’s just it’s I can’t describe it well enough It’s just such a creepy eerie scene and this guy is spooky looking to look at anyway And then to see this kind of magnetism and power that he has to manipulate It’s It’s really spooky.   It’s really good.

Todd:It is good. It’s a little like the vampire, right? In that kind of hypnosis and also this insistence that he’s got to get in the house. Like, I don’t know about you, but what’s going through my mind here was oh I see like he has to be invited in like in order to do it and this is his tag this is what he’s doing and so that’s you know that’s part of the tension here too it’s like oh my god don’t let him in or it’s all over for you guys you know right But but that   again that’s a bit of a letdown actually because it turns out that’s not the case at all Right in the context of the rest of the movie after such a powerful scene I felt like that scene didn’t really amount to much for 2 reasons 1 was that it felt like it was setting up this notion that they had some barrier of, you know, that if as long as he wasn’t being brought into their home, they could somehow keep him at bay. It turns out it doesn’t even matter. Like, he can reach them anywhere they are. And   he even shows up as an apparition in their living room a little bit later, like as if it’s nothing. So there’s that part that I was like, oh, that’s a shame. But the second part is, this is the only place I could find in the film where we really is alluded to any sort of self-doubt or this notion that Stephen is unable to provide for his family or has this this self-consciousness about him. I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, but anything up to this point I really didn’t see that, and even after this so they’re   trying to play with it but it doesn’t really come through and so it seems like just telling us instead of showing us a kind of lazy writing where he says I’m peering into your mind and this is what I see and Stephen’s saying oh my god you’re absolutely right and now we’re supposed to get that information but it seems at odds with the rest of how the movie goes.

Craig:Gosh, I don’t like to be contrary but I will disagree with you a little. That’s a lie. I love to be contrary. But I’ll say I think that they did a better job than you’re giving them credit for by showing beyond this point. Now maybe not up to this point, Except for, you know, like I can see how that would be something easy to play on where, you know, his business has failed. He’s now, you know, he was a successful real estate developer. Now he’s selling crappy vacuum cleaners door to door. They have to live with   his mother-in-law because he hasn’t or can’t provide them a home. So there’s that leading up to it. And then after this, there’s at least suggestion of his retreat into Alcohol, you know, he’s drinking Pretty consistently from this point on I don’t know I got the suggestion that this was kind of a defeated man.

Todd:You know? I mean, I see the suggestion, what you’re talking about, but up until this point, even though, yeah, there are these things, he’s still pretty confident about it. You know, he has that whole conversation with his wife, where His wife is at more than him kind of saying, look, we’re in a bad spot right now. We’re living with my mom and why are you selling vacuum cleaners? We need some stability or whatever. And he kind of starts to go into this goofy sort of play acting thing like, oh, you’re right. Everything’s going downhill. And she   starts laughing at him and they embrace and they kiss and they love each other and the kids come in and they all love each other and it’s all like, you know what I mean? It’s like, it’s not like I feel like he buys into that. Maybe he’s not making the right choices. Maybe he’s unsure of the choices he’s made. I don’t know. I just don’t get the sense that he’s lost that self-confidence up until this point. And then later as the film goes on, yeah, there’s the alcoholism part, right? He’s hit in the bottle a few   times. But I don’t know. Aside from like 2 scenes, and maybe it’s just because the movie’s pretty rushed from this point on anyway, aside from 2 scenes of him drinking, I mean, that’s it. I mean, to me, that’s kind of lazy. We don’t see him stumbling around. We don’t get the sense that it’s inhibiting his ability to connect with people or that at the end of the day, you know, he’s not functioning or he’s, I don’t know, it’s just, I don’t, I didn’t get any of that. Maybe it’s in deleted scenes or…

Craig:Well, that’s what I was going to say. You know, an hour was cut, you know, who knows what we lost there. But even in the stuff that you’re saying, when they’re talking about how the insurance isn’t going to cover their lost home because since it just disappeared, it’s only technically missing. Like, that’s so stupid. I know, but it sounds like something that an insurance company would do. I, you know, whatever. And they do, they have that discussion where they’re talking about how they’re on hard times or whatever, and he turns to humor. But I see that   as a defense mechanism. You know, like, what else are we gonna do but joke about it? You know, his retreat into alcohol, I think, even though we don’t see that much of it, and I’m not saying that there’s anything wrong with having a few drinks to drown your sorrows, that’s fine. But I think that the suggestion is that he’s maybe diving in a little too deep.

Todd:Well, I tell you what, if nursing 1 bottle of tequila over the course of a

Craig:couple of movies. Through the

Clip:whole movie. He’s diving in deep.

Todd:I’d say he’s at the shallow end right now, for sure.

Craig:Oh man. Okay, well, Diane, the mom, then has a vision. I don’t remember if it’s inspired by anything. I think maybe Tangina, yeah, Tangina gives her some pictures, some photographs of the cult. And she recognizes Kane and she sees the underground bunker that we’ve already seen the corpses in. And so we know that she is kind of special too, which Tangina says. She says, you know, Carolanne is special, your mom was special, and I bet anything that you are too. She says that Carolanne’s highly clairvoyant and Kane thinks that he needs her to lead them into   the light. And then crazy stuff starts happening. Robbie, the son, who, I don’t know if this was a reshoot or not but did you notice that in this braces scene that he looked like at least 2 years older than he looks in the rest of the movie?

Todd:No I didn’t notice that. You know for me I was I had in my head that the braces scene happened to the girl in the first movie so I’m I was totally off on this catch

Craig:well his his braces attack him and that sounds really stupid that it’s there’s actually some really cool effects you know the The wires and the braces shoot out and it’s a ridiculous amount of wire. It like ties him to the ceiling of the bedroom and The parents come in are trying to help and they’re yelling for Taylor to come help that he doesn’t because he’s protecting Carol Anne and when they finally get Robbie out Steven is mad. Why didn’t you help us? And he says cuz they don’t want you They’re just trying to distract you away   from her. They want carolyn

Todd:I don’t know man There’s gonna be a lot more stuff happening. And this is kind of how I felt about the movie. Like, why don’t they just go after Carol Anne then? Like, why would you in her bathroom? Why didn’t she just get sucked down the drain or something?

Craig:Yeah,

Todd:if they can do any of all this stuff, we’re about to describe is just going all over the place. It’s like his…

Craig:His

Todd:braces attacking him and stuff. And not like that was that restrained in the first movie, but it just felt a little more grounded. And in this sense, Because it’s been hammered into our heads that they’re trying to get Carol Ann, I’m trying to think, what is his method? It didn’t ring true to this character who apparently has all of this control, can make all these spooky things happen, why he’s having such a hard time pulling her away when he can do anything he wants to the rest of the family?

Craig:I feel like I’m defending it too much, but until Robbie goes away to the bathroom to brush his teeth or whatever, they’re always all together. Like they’re slumber partying, Not literally. They’re just all sleeping together in the living room. So they’re all always together. I feel like by attacking Robbie when he goes off on his own, that’s to try to get them away from her. And it works. It does get the parents away from her, but that’s why Taylor stays, because they’re trying to get her alone so that they can, and it all comes down to,   it sounds so cliche, but it doesn’t even bother me because, you know, I like that idea of a family’s bond and a family’s strength protecting them. Yeah, it sounds like a cliche and very well maybe, but it doesn’t bother me. And so to have that idea of the only way to get to her is to get the rest of them away from her that makes sense to me. All right,

Todd:I’ll grant you that. I didn’t really see it that way before but now that we’re talking about it, it actually makes perfect sense.

Craig:Well, so anyway, I don’t know. We get lots of exposition about the doomsday cults or whatever, and then Taylor takes Steven up to this impossible rock tower.

Todd:Maybe they cut out the scene in between there where they were like scaling it, you know, with the other, their climbing gear.

Craig:It’s funny, like, I feel like 2 weeks in a row, we’ve watched movies where they’ve had to climb impossible mountains.

Todd:Oh that’s right. At least in the last 1 they actually climbed it.

Craig:Right. Instead of just appearing at the top and like Stephen with his like dad gut is just like sitting up there like yucking it up like, what are we doing up here?

Clip:I loved his line actually, because they’re like a sweat box.

Todd:We’ve heard about this because there have been some accidents in regards to these sorts of things. But It’s apparently a very traditional Native American thing to put yourself in a hut or something and then get all sweaty and then…

Clip:I love the health club. I’m just wondering when I get the key to my locker.

Todd:And actually the reaction is really cool, you know, he just smiles at me says a sense of humor that you’re gonna need that You know, it’s not like he says pay attention you dick, you know, it’s yeah, it’s it’s cool No,

Clip:actually, yeah

Craig:Taylor Taylor plays it very cool with Steve throughout the whole movie. And I like that. Like he gets him, like he gets, this is the kind of guy you are. I get it. Like I can work with that. He’s totally, he’s totally cool with them the whole time. But anyway, he blows some magic smoke in Stephen’s face and that’s important later.

Todd:He gets sucked into to blow out later, yes.

Craig:Right, right, exactly. But then, okay, so he tells him, you have to take your family back to Cuesta Verde, The original site, their old house or whatever. It doesn’t really explain why, but okay. And then all of a sudden Taylor is gone, which I don’t understand. Was there some sort of explanation for why he wasn’t with them anymore?

Todd:He just off the cuff said, I’ve done all I can for you. You’re on your own, basically, which is kind of another funny thing about this movie. I mean, I know you’ve got to do things to advance the plot and for our audience’s purposes. But you know, as soon as they find this pit underneath the Indian burial ground in their house, don’t you think that Tangino could have at least like called them up first? Like let them know, hey I’m sending a guy your way, I’m also gonna be there shortly.

Craig:They just

Todd:leave them leave them out in limbo for a while, send this mysterious Indian, oh, by the way, Tangina sends me, he’s there for like a week or 2. And then Zelda shows up again, like, how far away do they live? And then this time, he just up and leaves, like you said, and now you’ve got to fight it alone. But then when they get to Cuesta Verde, Tangina is right there. Like she’s been camped out by that hole like for the last

Craig:2 weeks. So they end up by themselves which leads to this what I think is probably the most memorable scene of this movie when the family is just all home together and like Diane is taking a bath with Tangina, which by the way, I don’t remember if

Todd:she’s not taking a bath with Tangina. I’ll tell you that.

Craig:No, you’re not. You’re right. That would have been that would have been an interesting twist. She’s taking a bath with Carol Anne. I was thinking I was thinking ahead of myself. I was trying to think it was coming next. But yeah, like they’re taking bath. And I was good. I was trying to come up with the critics names. I think it was Roger Ebert who hated this movie.

Todd:Gene Siskel hated it.

Craig:Okay, all right, hated it. And 1 of the reasons that he hated it was because he thought that Jo Beth Williams was trampy because she had appeared nude in movies before. Well, I guess technically she appears nude in this movie too because she’s taking a bath with her daughter and you only see her from the back.

Todd:I can’t think of anything trampier than taking a bath with your daughter.

Craig:Right. You maybe see a tiny, tiny little bit of side boob. Like it’s so tame. But anyway, regardless, Stephen is drinking. He’s finishing off this bottle of tequila that he’s been nursing the whole time. And he drinks the worm, which they call it tequila so many times. I have never seen a tequila with a worm in it. Now Mezcal has a worm in it, and I’ve drank that, and that stuff will fuck you up. That stuff will put a demon in you.

Todd:You’ve had some exorcisms yourself.

Craig:Yeah, I’ve been to Mexico. But so he drinks the worm, which you do. I didn’t have to be the 1 to do it, thank God. But he drinks the worm and it’s a possessed worm. It starts moving around before he even drinks it and then he drinks it and then he’s possessed by Kane and if his acting has been flat through the rest of the movie I thought Craig T. Nelson did a really good job here of channeling Julian Beck’s character.

Todd:He did. He gets

Craig:very wide-eyed and he made a point of pulling his lips back over his teeth to really expose his teeth. He talks like him and he’s very sweaty. It’s a really uncomfortable scene because he first has a creepy thank god brief scene with Carol Anne. That could have gotten very dark, but luckily it was very brief. But then he’s with Diane and you know, these 2 actors had really strong chemistry together. Like I really believed them as a husband and wife, 100% from the first movie to the second movie and to now see Steven being so creepy   with her and it starts off just really super handsy, but then it gets violent and rapey and it’s it’s really intense and very uncomfortable and really scary and I thought that they both did a really good job with it.

Todd:This begs that question earlier though. Why did he have such a brief little scene with Carol Ann?

Clip:He possessed Carol Ann’s dad. Carol Ann’s right there.

Todd:Can he just grab her and go? Why does he have to let her run off and then have this whole deal with her mother? I don’t know, did he just pop a huge boner or something? Like, well, wait a minute.

Craig:I guess, but somebody had said, either Taylor or Tangina had said, his goal is gonna be to drive you apart. He has to drive you apart and Then not only is he being creepy and rapey with the wife, but he’s intentionally very loudly saying you never wanted Carol Anne. You don’t love Carol Anne. You never wanted her.

Todd:Yeah, you wish she hadn’t been born.

Craig:Right, and the wife is trying to shush him and she’s crying. And I don’t know if there’s supposed to be some more to the backstory there or whatever, but it’s effective because we see that Carol Anne hears it and that it upsets her. And if their family bond is really what is protecting them and keeping them together, then he has done something by driving this wedge or planting this seed of doubt between them.

Todd:True.

Craig:And then, you know, as he’s like trying to rape her, Diane says to Steven, I love you, don’t you know that? I love you. And it’s like Steven gets control of his body back, like he’s fighting it and he fights it and then he starts to wretch and he vomits up what first looks like kind of a big scary worm but what turns into a freaking demon that he expels out of his mouth and it just looks awful. And I read that the filming of it was awful because it took so long to do and they   had to do so many reshoots and poor Craig T. Nelson just was in agony, I guess. But it looks amazing. And then he vomits up this creature that goes scurrying along. And it’s this creature that looks so freaking cool. And He’s like, he’s kind of got Kane’s face, like with the teeth and the eyes, but very, you know, other worldly reptilian. He was played by this stunt man who was a Vietnam vet who had been a triple amputee it just looks

Todd:It’s hideous.

Craig:I think if anybody remembers anything from this movie This is the part that they will remember because it’s just so unsettling. It’s really cool

Todd:It’s the PG-13 part of the movie honestly. Yeah

Clip:It’s gross and it was grays away and I guess I HR Giger who designed alien

Todd:and all that did designs for this movie as well. The design for that creature that, I don’t know if it was that particular version of the creature or if it’s the creature that that then turns into in their stairwell, which is where they’d have a bit of a battle with it.

Craig:Yeah, the beast is what it’s referred to.

Todd:And he wasn’t happy with with the way all that turned out. He said that it just showed him that he has to be on set for any of these movies that he advises or else it won’t be done to his satisfaction.

Craig:And I understand that and I respect him so much as an artist. I’ve seen so much of his artwork, his sketches and stuff. And he, you know, I can’t imagine what kind of dark mind his stuff comes from.

Todd:It didn’t look enough like a giant dick is probably what it.

Craig:Maybe. Maybe, but his artwork really is amazing. I thought the creature looks good But then just like in the first movie and I’m not complaining about this because I love the first movie the house goes crazy You know, they’re fighting their way through all kinds of weird things going on in the house They end up in the garage because Carol Ann has hidden in the car and they finally get in the car. There’s a scene where a chainsaw attacks the car. They considered shooting the movie in 3D And so this is 1 of the scenes that   was supposed to pay service to that it actually looks kind of goofy in the movie But

Todd:sure does it’s kind of labored too

Craig:but they get out and they have to go back to Cuesta Verde and They do and they go down and you know under where their old house was back to the burial spot

Todd:Well, and and tan gene is there waiting for them

Craig:Yes, And this is what I was saying earlier, like

Clip:all this stuff’s going on and she’s

Todd:just hanging out by the hole waiting for them. She knows they’re gonna be there.

Craig:Here, I knew you’d come like it’s about time geez did the house just attack you come on So they go down there and then I could you can tell you can tell that they in editing or wherever that this was very rushed because they just get down there and then from out of nowhere there’s like a big flash of light and you hear Kane’s voice and Diane and Carol Anne gets sucked into the void. And this is my biggest complaint with this movie is that the finale of this movie is just too reminiscent of the finale   of the first movie. It’s really the exact same thing.

Todd:You

Craig:know, that Carol Anne is off floating in space In the first movie, Carol Anne is off floating in space and they have to send Diane and to get her. And in this movie, Carol Anne and Diane are both floating off into space. So, and Taylor’s there too. He’s tending a spiritual fire down underground, apparently.

Todd:They just turn around the corner and there he is.

Craig:Right. And he’s like, this is the entrance, jump in. And so they do. So Robbie and Steven just jump into the fire. And then they’re all just floating in space. And it’s all very ethereal. Like, you know, it’s 80s special effects. So it doesn’t look particularly real, but it’s pretty to look at at least. They’re all just floating in space and they get together, but then the big beast appears again and somehow, Taylor has this spear that we saw in like the first 30 seconds of the movie and then never again. And he throws it into   the fire and Steven gets it and he throws it and it kills the beast. Like the beast explodes, but the explosion causes Carol Ann to go flipping off into nothingness and they can’t see her. And Taylor’s like, oh no, it’s over. She’s lost. But then thankfully, the angelic grandmother comes out of the light with care land and reunites them all. And they all come back out of the fire and they’re back and everything’s okay. And then there’s some cute little comedy where Steven gives Taylor the car and then they realize they don’t have a way to   get home so they all go chasing him down the street and that’s the end. The ending, as quickly as I just paraphrased it.

Todd:It’s basically as quick as it is.

Craig:It’s like it goes so fast. Yeah. And it’s a little bit of a letdown. It’s a little bit anticlimactic, which is unfortunate.

Todd:It’s unfortunate and it’s a little cheesy too. I mean the whole thing’s a little hokey. I mean I guess this universe is kind of like that. Like you said, it’s very much like the first 1, but this magical spear gets thrust in the spiritual realm and then they just shows up where they are and they toss it at the demon and then it’s dead. I mean, you know, I think it’s a big letdown honestly. It just goes by so quickly and it’s too special effects-y for me. I don’t know. I felt like a lot of it   was.

Craig:I agree.

Todd:Yeah, it loses some of that magic. Again, It doesn’t ground it so much in reality as much as a movie about poltergeist and the other side or whatever can be grounded In reality You need hooks in there a little bit and I felt like there was just so much going on throughout the movie that you know the braces thing attacking the kid, the ghost appearing everywhere, this demon thing coming out of his him spinning out the the demon worm and all that that That’s what I meant when I said earlier, like it just kind of lacked   a little bit of focus. I think what I really meant was it just lacked a grounding in a sense of like some rules that I could understand and play by. You know, I think a lot of people, their complaint about fantasy in general is that, well, anything can happen. So how do I get invested in it when I know somebody’s going to swoop in with a magic spell or a magic creature and, and, you know, Deus ex machina something away. And I felt like this movie did that a lot. It was a spectacle to watch, it   was well acted. You know, I like the family and I think I have gained a bit more appreciation for it talking about it with you. Now that you have kind of explained to me that it’s their whole family staying together that maybe Is what kind of kept them alive through all this and it makes a little more sense that way I get it

Craig:I get it. It’s not a great movie. I don’t know I don’t know if it’s because of my love of the first movie like seriously, I can’t go on I can’t believe a hundred and who knows how many episodes we are in now.

Todd:And we haven’t,

Craig:oh geez. And we haven’t done Poltergeist. Seriously, it’s 1 of my favorite movies. It’s not as good, but it’s not a terrible sequel. Have you seen part 30A

Todd:long time ago when I first came out, I saw it once. That was it.

Craig:Part 3 is not even a good movie, but I love it.

Todd:Doesn’t it take place in a skyscraper or something?

Craig:Yes, it takes place in the Hancock building in Chicago and It’s not a good movie, but I absolutely love it. I think part of it is Heather O’Rourke, Carol Anne. She’s just so sweet and cute and innocent and, God, I just love her so much. Then part 3, the tragedy, again with the curse, the tragedy of part 3 is that there are different stories. Some people say that they had finished production and then she died right after, And then they went back into film reshoots. There are other people that say that they hadn’t finished and she   died, but she died. This sweet, poor, cute little girl died because she was misdiagnosed with some sort of stomach ailment. And it’s just so sad. And she’s just so sweet and cute in these movies. And I just love her. And really, Craig T. Nelson, you know, he’s still a very active.  :00 – :32

Todd:Working actor and Jo Beth Williams has done tons of stuff too. But I just, there was, there’s something natural about this family. Like I just believe them as a family and I’m rooting for them and I liked following their story. And I can’t say that I didn’t like this movie. I liked it. It has its problems. I still like it, especially as far as sequels go because sequels are such a mixed bag. I think this was a serviceable, if not better than that sequel.  :33 – :42

Craig:Well, when you talk about that and we talked about this for the last couple sequels we’ve done as well, this movie does at least satisfy you in that almost all the main characters are back.  :42 – :42

Todd:Right.  :42 – :11

Craig:And you know, it’s it’s picking up kind of where the last movie left off and it’s tying in pretty strongly to the plot of the first film even though it goes off kind of in its own way maybe even a little too much like you said the ending is almost exactly the same but at least they’ve maybe done a better job of striking that balance of giving the fans enough of what they liked about the original while still trying to be original in and of itself. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you again for listening to another episode.  :11 – :39 If you enjoyed this 1, please share it with a friend. Our month of sequels is wrapping up to a close. We have 1 more sequel for you coming up next week, Return of the Living Dead Part 2. So look forward to that 1. Neither of us have seen it before. We’ll let you know our take on that. You let us know your take on this and any other episode that we’ve done by going to our website at 2guys.redfortinet.com. You can find us on Facebook, just search 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. Leave us a comment there on  :39 – :52 either of those places and let us know what you thought of this film. Give us some requests for things that you want to see in the future because we are going to do some more requests coming up here really soon. Until next time, I’m Todd and I’m Craig with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.