The Purge
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Kicking off Request Month is this request from long-time listener, Karthik. We enjoyed having a rare political discussion (don’t worry folks, we don’t get too deep) and dissecting this film that made bank at the box office and spawned a few sequels and a TV show. Thanks for the request, and if you have any more, please let us know!

The Purge (2013)
Episode 156, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast
Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.
Craig: And I’m Craig.
Todd: Well, Craig, after we got done with our holiday goodies, we decided to dive into request month as promised. Go into our little backlog that we have of requests. Today’s request comes from a longtime and loyal listener, Kartik. He wanted us to do The Purge. So we are reviewing 2013’s The Purge, which was the first of a, what turned out to be a franchise basically. I think there are what, 4 of them now?
Craig: Yeah, and a TV series.
Todd: And a TV series. So I had never seen this before, so I was excited to see it. Although I did have this notion when I went in that I wasn’t going to like it. I felt like this might be the kind of movie that I don’t care too much for, which is just people doing terrible things to other people without much point to it. And so that’s what kind of what kept me away from the series from the beginning. But anyway, how about you?
Craig: Well, I had seen it before. I saw it when it came out. The previews, I remember the advertising campaign was pretty compelling and I thought it seemed like a cool concept at the time. You know, this was in 2013 and it seemed a little far-fetched, you know, very dystopian and kind of crazy. And so I saw it in 2013 and I thought it was alright. I liked it okay. What the critics had problems with and I agreed was that it had this great promise of kind of being this night of mayhem and then everything in the movie turns out to be confined just to this 1 house and you’re really kind of left where I was and the critics were left thinking it would have been more exciting to kind of broaden the horizons and see what was going on outside and in other places. And as it turned out, you know, the director actually kind of agreed and said, well, you know, we only had a couple million bucks and like 19 days to shoot. And so We were pretty limited in what we could do and he said we were hoping that it would do well enough to get a sequel and then we could expand and that’s exactly what they did. Part 2 is more chaotic and it’s set outside and in various locations And so it’s a little bit more exciting. But going back and watching this 1 again, I liked it better than I remembered liking it. I still don’t think that it’s amazing and it certainly has its flaws, but I think that it also comes with the difference in time. Now that we’re in 2019, the movie is a little bit scarier because it feels a little bit closer to home.
Todd: Yeah, it is. And that’s so depressing to say, isn’t it? It’s true. Well, the premise is a solid, I don’t know, it’s a solid premise, it’s a nice premise. Again, it still seems a little far-fetched, but maybe not as far-fetched now as it did then but you know it’s a movie so you suspend this belief. The whole notion is that America, the United States, is run by you know a new group of people. In fact they’re pretty faceless, pretty nameless. That’s part of the creepiness factor of the movie, I think, is that there is this semi-dystopian future where the U.S. Almost seems like a fascist state, maybe. The New Founders is what they’re called and referred to through the movie. And they’ve established this ingenious way, according to the movie, of basically eliminating crime in the US. And that is that they have a 12-hour period every year where any and all crime is legal, including murder. And they make a point of that, including murder. And this is supposed to basically get it all out of our system. It’s supposed to purge us of the, you know, the feelings that we have and the need to commit crime. It’s like an escape valve, basically. We’re practically crime-free except for this 12 hours. So, it’s an interesting idea because then you immediately think, well, what would you do during that 12 hours? And you get a little bits and pieces in the beginning of the movie of how people are planning to spend it, you know? And some very normal people are planning to go out and get revenge on their boss or by killing them or doing whatever during this period. So it’s a really interesting premise. It’s a great, I mean, it’s a great premise for, in this case, it’s basically the premise for a home invasion movie.
Craig: Yeah, I mean, I think what makes it interesting to me is that, you know, not only is it legal, but it’s sanctioned, you know, like by society, like, it’s okay, you know, you can be considered a normal, decent human being and good citizen all throughout the year. And then really this 1 night, not only is what you’re doing legal, but and not only is it okay, you know, virtually in the eyes of at least the people that we see. And that’s the thing, like in this movie, we really only kind of see 1 side of society. We see the privileged. So we don’t really get so much insight into what’s going on with the underprivileged. And the later movies deal with that. And I haven’t seen them all. I don’t even remember which ones I’ve seen. I know I saw the second 1 and I watched the TV series, which I actually really enjoyed, but It explores other aspects of society. But this 1 we’re dealing mostly with very privileged people. And so not only are these actions approved, but they’re celebrated. Like you’re doing your patriotic duty. Yes. To go out and do
Todd: this. Exactly, and that is an interesting spin on it as well. Like you said, it’s like their patriotic duty. And any time a character in this film kind of questions what they’re doing or says something, it’s almost kind of shot down by the others. Like, now remember all of the good that the Purge does. You know, this is our duty as Americans, basically, is how it’s couched, it’s how it’s announced by the television.
Clip: Commencing at the siren, Any and all crime, including murder, will be legal for 12 continuous hours. Police, fire, and emergency medical services will be unavailable until tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. When the purge concludes. Blessed be our new founding fathers and America, a nation reborn. May God be with you all.
Todd: You know, this movie is obviously trying to make some social points. It has a kind of an agenda, but I think 1 of the bad things about this movie or 1 of the negative, I wouldn’t say bad, just 1 of the weak parts of this film is it doesn’t seem to really know the point it’s trying to make. At least maybe it’s trying to make a lot of different points and so not 1 of them comes through as a general theme. Like for example, I see there’s a little bit of criticism here of the military. I don’t want to say criticism, but at least questioning of what does it mean to serve your country and to die in service to your country.
Craig: Right.
Todd: There’s a lot of that going on through here. I think, you know, especially there are some moments where the characters say, thank you for your sacrifice. Right. Which is something that we say almost verbatim. It’s like a catchphrase that we use for military people whenever you encounter them. Oh, you’re in the military? Oh, thank you for your sacrifice. And I grew up in a military family. Both of my parents are veterans. You know, and they hear that a lot too. And they have mixed feelings about that. You know, they say like, it’s nice to hear, but it’s become this thing that people just feel like they have to say. It sounds almost trite, and I don’t really feel like there’s a lot of meaning in it. Not that my parents feel like people should be running around thanking them for their sacrifice, and maybe that’s part of the problem as well. Right. So Eddie, just that that is used in the movie very pointedly. I think that the filmmakers absolutely were trying to draw some parallels there. But you know, as we go on until we talk about it, you’re going to see some other parallels as well too that they’re trying to draw. And I’m not saying you can’t, you know, skip along all of these things, but it does kind of muddy the waters a bit when you When the movie is finished and you’re sitting and you’re thinking about it, you’re like, what am I supposed to get out of it? What am I feeling?
Craig: Yeah. Well, I mean, it’s just it’s really dark and and it’s it’s pessimistic up until the end, you know It’s it’s it’s not like there’s some sort of light at the end of the tunnel. It’s not like, I mean, I suppose I guess the movie focuses on this 1 family. I don’t remember their last names. Sanden. The patriarch is James played by Ethan Hawke. And then there’s the mom, Mary played by Lena Headey, a son, Max, who’s, I don’t know, probably like 13, 14, and then the daughter, Zoe, who is a teenager, under 18. Like, I don’t know Exactly, but under 18, that’s important because she’s got this boyfriend who’s 18 that’s too old for her, whatever. And it focuses on this family and they are, they’re a wealthy family. The dad works, he’s like a CEO or something, you know, he’s a top dog in this security systems company and that’s what he does is he sells home security systems for the purge. And he’s doing very well. Obviously, you know, this family has built their, to say empire is not really fair. I mean, they’re very wealthy, but it’s all been built. They’ve profited from this. And so of course they support it, or at least the parents do. And I guess there’s supposed to kind of be an arch where they kind of come to realize that it’s bad, but that it’s kind of underplayed. And ultimately, you know, in the end, nothing really changes. So the whole thing is kind of dark and depressing, really. And like I said, I’m not going to sit here and be super, super critical of our government or anything like that. But it’s a very strange time in America right now. And things are very different than they’ve been in the past. And for many of us, it seems like things are potentially going down a kind of dark road. I’m not suggesting that I think that we are headed towards the purge or anything like that, but you know, I’m almost at a point where very little surprises me. And so, and so, you know, this the movie is is kind of just scary in that light in that it doesn’t seem as out of the realm of possibility as it did in 2013.
Todd: There’s a kind of sanctioning or tolerance of violence and hate right now that we’re experiencing that’s pretty shocking to us and a movie like this in 2013, you know, it seems so far-fetched. And now in America, this kind of thing, it doesn’t seem as far-fetched, even though it’s, things would have to get pretty darn bad for this to happen. But it’s chilling in the beginning because, and I think the movie does a really good job of setting up this really uncomfortable, almost stomach-turning atmosphere. I mean, you’re going to see the Purge, you’ve seen the previews, you know the premise going into the movie, usually. And if you don’t, you’re going to get it very quickly in the movie from almost the very beginning because the credits start out with surveillance footage of the previous Purge and it’s just all of these people killing each other basically on Purge night, which is this night. And then we get into this, you know, almost gated community, beautiful McMansions up and down the aisle, and people are putting out these blue flowers, which is their way of showing their support for the Purge. You know, it’s like hanging out your flag, right? It’s like putting out your yellow ribbon. It’s like putting your election sign on the lawn. You know, this is very tied into American traditions here. And then, you know, they’re talking about, you know, hey, have a safe night, have a safe night. And it’s just said so casually, you know, like have a good day.
Craig: Well, right, and you know, the mom like runs into a neighbor on the street, this, you know, very suburbanite blonde, pretty middle-aged woman.
Clip: So are you having your annual party, Grace, or? No, too much trouble. We’re just gonna lock down, watch some purge events, nothing special. Well, thank you for the cookies. Good night. You’re welcome. Have a safe night, Mary. And you, Grace.
Craig: That’s part of what’s so chilling about it is just how casual it is. You know, like they’re having purge parties. You know, like these wealthy people who are secure behind their fancy security systems, they gather and celebrate. Like it’s the finale of like American Idol or something. You know, like it’s an event, like it’s a television event. It’s just, it’s chilling. Oh yeah. We are that, you know, we are, we’re a voyeuristic society. And should something like this happen, it would be televised and people would watch it.
Todd: They talk about it the next day you know they get right at the water cooler. It would be a thing you know and and doesn’t even dive into the I don’t even think it gets close enough to reality, you know, I mean think about the social media aspect Think about what people are gonna be posting and sending to texting to each other and messaging It’s not like all cell phone communication goes down at this time. Right in this way. It’s really evocative I think that the things that was immediately coming to my mind was the lottery. Uh-huh. Shirley Jackson. Shirley Jackson just 1, it’s just an iconic short story of American fiction. It’s very short but it’s very much the same way where these people get together and they’re just matter of factly talking about this ritual that they have every year that they believe helps them, helps the crops to grow and all that. And it’s, you got to go out and read the lottery. If you don’t, if you haven’t read it yet, you need to read it and then skip forward about 2 minutes and pick up this conversation because at the end of it is you find out what they’re talking about is they they ritually stone a person to death in the middle of town. Again, it’s just like this movie. In fact, it’s probably very much inspired by it. They’re just matter-of-factly talking about it. It’s their patriotic duty. Of course we have to do it because it’s what keeps society going. And so therefore, like, we’re not even considering, you know, we’re not even questioning it. And that’s, again, this notion that we’re not even questioning it anymore because it’s become this ritual for us that we all believe is doing good. That sort of thing just really strikes home right now in politics in America, so it’s pretty scary.
Craig: Yeah, it is. And I think that the film is being critical of a particular facet of American society, you know, the wealthy, the elite, you know, the 1% or whatever. It focuses so much on that in this movie and the dad in particular, you know, the kids are a little bit more skeptical and they’re kind of questioning and especially the son who’s the youngest 1, which would make sense, you know, a young kid who hopefully still has some decency and innocence that is just human. But then you’ve got the dad who is so jaded, you know, who just very sincerely looks him in the eye and just says, yeah, I understand that bad things happen on this night, but think of all the good the purge does. And on the news, you know, we get little news clips kind of in the background every once in a while, and they talk about how, yes, it’s where we’re getting rid of the undesirables in society. And the undesirables are the homeless, the disabled. The rationale is these are people who are not contributing in any useful way to society and we’re better off without them because then we don’t have to support them and then wealth and resources can be more evenly distributed to the worthy.
Todd: Yeah. Ugh! Like… And it goes, you know, and it’s saying this too, and who is the worthy? Well, here’s a guy who makes his money off of this night. Yeah. I mean, he sells security equipment specifically for this to the wealthy specifically for this night. And so here you’ve got a guy who’s profiting from this as well and that is why his family is up in this 1% and why they are so kind of immune, basically, you know, at least consider themselves immune. Them and the whole neighborhood, you know, they say early on when they’re sitting around the table, I wouldn’t say it’s a hundred percent successful, at least for me, at really giving me sympathy for this family, but it could have been a movie about a bunch of rich, terrible people doing terrible things to other rich, terrible people, and then you really just wouldn’t even care. Right. It would undermine the message it’s trying to make. And in a way, that is what the movie is, but at least they try to throw a few bones the other way with this particular family to make them seem like the kind of people you might want to root for anyway. Because, you know, the dad, at the same time, he’s checking boats, like he’s bragging about how much money he made at the dinner table and then he’s checking the the listings for the new yacht there basically he wants to buy he sits down and he mentions to the kids as the kid as the purges going to start now we’re lucky because we make enough money that we don’t have to worry about our safety on this night. Now, that’s as far as it goes, you know? But he makes mention
Craig: of it. See, but that’s the thing. Like, yes, I can certainly find sympathy for the kids, definitely, even though the daughter is so stupid, she’s so dumb throughout the whole movie. And the kid makes really foolish decisions too, but I can excuse that because he’s a kid. And the parents, like the mom’s fine, I’ll get back to her in a second, but the dad is just so douchey. Like, and I think that the reason that I have such a problem really specifically with him, but with all of them is because I know these people. You know, these are people who are polite in society and who, you know, I’m sure within their family love each other very much. And you know, if you knew them on a casual basis, you would think that they were decent people. And yet they endorse these terrible practices and ideas. And I know those people. You know what I mean?
Todd: But that’s also now it’s in a world where this doesn’t happen. Whereas in this world, everybody endorses it. It’s kind of like giving people a bit of a pass even though it’s wrong. It’s like where you give people a little bit of a pass if they were racist like back in like 1850s because everybody was racist in the 1850s and so you have to be almost super humanly wonderful in order to not hold some of these tendencies. It’s not to excuse it, but at least we kind of put them in a bit of a box, if you will. And I feel like this movie is putting this family in that kind of, in the world of the movie, this family feels like a lot of people feel. Now, the problem is we don’t get outside of this family or this neighbor. We don’t know how the poor feel. We can imagine they don’t feel happy about this at all, but the movie doesn’t really give us those answers. So it’s pretty nebulous.
Craig: Right, and that’s the thing, the only representative, so the purge goes down, you know, it starts or whatever, and they lock down, then they all kind of split off from 1 another. The daughter has this boyfriend who the dad doesn’t approve of, and it turns out that even though she told him to leave, he stays behind in the house, so that’s going on and causes some intrigue later on. But really, they’re all just kind of watching the monitors. The son, by himself, happens to see on the monitor this guy running down the street, begging for help, and it’s the only black person in the whole movie.
Todd: No, no, not true. There’s a black woman later in the movie. Later in
Craig: the movie. Oh, that’s right, you’re right. You’re right. So I guess it would have been better for me to say the only person outside of the socioeconomic status of most of the rest of the people that we see.
Todd: That’s right.
Craig: Apparently, I read that this guy appears in at least 3 or 4 of the movies. I don’t remember.
Todd: He’s in at least 2, yeah, of the sequels.
Craig: We don’t really get to know him as a character. I mean, he’s really more just a prop, a rabbit running scared. And I don’t even wanna necessarily call that a flaw because I think that that’s kind of intentional. I think that he’s more supposed I think he’s supposed to be a little bit nebulous. You know, we’re not supposed to know a lot about him. We don’t need to. All we need to know is that he’s on the other side of it. But he’s the only person that we see on the other side of it. And so we don’t get any exploration of what the rest of the world thinks. And to be fair, again, the other movies do. The other movies follow the people, at least the ones I’ve seen, on the other side. And the people on the other side recognize exactly what’s going on here. They recognize that they are being systematically exterminated. They recognize the motivations behind it, and they recognize the depravity behind it. But it’s, I think that that’s commentary on how when you’re on the winning side, it’s very easy to dismiss those concerns and it’s very easy to justify your actions when they only benefit you and you don’t really see any negative consequence.
Todd: Yeah, you’re totally insulated from it.
Craig: Right. I don’t wanna say I have friends like that because I try not to associate myself with those types of people personally. But I certainly know them. We’re in, again, a weird place where racism is rearing. It’s very ugly head and people are very vocally being very critical and discriminatory towards, and as much as it has to do with race, because it certainly does, It’s really about social economics more than anything else, I think. This movie, I feel like it scratches the surface of it, and that’s good. I think for the first movie, and they’re lucky that it did well enough that they got to explore it further, but to just kind of scratch the surface here, I think they did a reasonably good job.
Todd: Yeah, I mean, maybe as good as you could hope for. I mean, again, I think that’s 1 of my main criticisms of the movie, just from a thematic level, is it does just scratch the surface of a lot of these little ideas instead of really honing in on 1 of them. It’s not to say that the movie has to have a point, but clearly this movie is trying to make a point. I mean, this is 1 of those movies. And so it would have been better for me to get a bead on what that point was and not have to watch a sequel or 2 or 3 to get that. So that’s just my criticism of the film. I mean, it’s not my only 1, but it’s definitely the 1 that was haunting me throughout. Oh, this is what they’re trying to say. Oh, wait a minute, okay. Oh, I see, they got that in there. Oh, I see, all right, now it’s kind of about the military. Oh, now it’s about, you know, this even the violence within the community of these haves and have nots, these haves, right? It’s like they’re the more haves and the less haves, and there’s the jealousy, right? The neighbor who meets the mother outside, what her name is Mary, the neighbor Grace, who meets Mary outside and gives her cookies, is really quite sinister in her kindness, right? It’s clear she’s being a little fake and it’s clear there’s an undertone here and that’s that she makes a comment about.
Clip: You know your husband sold a new security system to almost every home in this community. You know, some people are actually saying this neighborhood paid for that new addition on your home. Are people really saying that? Relax, It’s just good old neighborhood gossip. Nothing to worry about. You’re too sensitive.
Todd: And that turns out to play into it later on in the movie.
Craig: Right. I mean, ultimately, I think that, and it may be a little bit heavy handed, But I don’t necessarily think that that means that it’s entirely wrong. But I think that what is being suggested here is that these people, when it comes down to it, they’re just depraved. Yeah, It’s under the guise of patriotic duty. Really what it’s about is just allowing your most base human instincts. It’s just like completely surrendering to your id. Just doing whatever you want to satisfy your impulses. So if you’re jealous of somebody, then you have the right and privilege to do whatever you want to do to them. If you despise somebody because of the way that they look or because of the way that they live or the way that you perceive how they are a detriment to your existence, then you can just do whatever you want. It’s kind of like just like a devolution of society.
Todd: Yeah, well, and it also just kind of shows how we, as society, create these systems or these belief systems to allow us to justify that, you know? The movie gets even religious toward the end of the film, where even, I mean, this is, you could call it a ritual, you know? It happens for 12 hours every single year, you know? Like I said, it’s very reminiscent of the lottery. It’s something that they all believe just like religiously has to happen because it satisfies our base instincts and resets, resets those, you know, that it comes into our bio biology. It comes into our DNA of what it means to be human. Even toward the end, 1 of the final scenes, I’m just going to kind of jump ahead a little bit. I don’t think there’s a problem with that, right? No, no. The family is completely surrounded by their neighbors who are going to kill them. And before they do, they all join hands around them like a religious ceremony and do almost a prayer like thank you for your sacrifice and blah blah blah blah before they start to do their thing. So it touches on that too, And that’s really deeply unsettling because again we can see evidence of how religion is used very easily. Almost in some ways seems designed. Certain sex, certain people take it that way anyway. Designed to justify this sort of, we’re like this and you’re like that and therefore you’re less human than we are and therefore we’re allowed to Do or say or feel a certain way towards you?
Craig: Yeah, and I think that 1 of the problems with the movie, you know okay, so I fall pretty far on 1 side of the political spectrum, but I could see how this movie would be off putting to some people who maybe thought because it seems very pointed. You know, we’re talking, we’re not hitting on a lot of the plot because frankly the plot is less interesting than the issues surrounding it.
Todd: It kind of sucks actually I think.
Craig: It’s all right, it’s all right, but it’s kind of typical of the movies. Yeah, I mean it was just, you know, it’s a home invasion movie. It’s very typical of the movies that were coming out around this time. There are shades of funny games, big shades of funny games, I thought. What was the other 1 with the mask people who came in to the big family dinner? You’re next.
Todd: You’re next, yeah.
Craig: Lots of shades of that. Because it just, it becomes that, it just becomes a home invasion movie. These people in these creepy masks show up at their house and well, the son takes in that scared guy who was running down the street and the neighbors rat them out and so this group of well-dressed clean-cut looking kids in these scary masks show up and they give them you know an ultimatum.
Clip: Your home tells me you’re a good folk just like us. 1 of the haves. And your blue flowers tell me that you support the purge. We want to treat you fairly, so listen closely. Mr. And Mrs. Deman, your sheltering is nothing but a dirty homeless pig. A grotesque menace to our just society who had the audacity to fight back, killing 1 of us when we attempted to execute him tonight. The pig doesn’t know his place and now he needs to be taught a lesson. You need to return him to us. Alive. You have until our provisions arrive, provisions which will help us break into your elegant home. If you don’t, if you don’t deliver him by the aforementioned time, we’ll release the beast on him and on you.
Craig: They just call him terrible names, like street trash and pig and all
Todd: kinds of horrible names. It’s really in the face, in your face, yeah.
Craig: Yeah, and that’s kind of what I’m getting at because I feel like the filmmakers are targeting a particular group of people. I mean, Especially the Home Invaders, I’m sorry, and I don’t want to alienate any of our listeners. I’m not trying to take a major political stance here, but they look like college young Republicans.
Todd: I mean,
Craig: that’s what they look like. You know, they’re very clean cut, white kids, you know, in expensive clothes, and you know, well manicured hairstyles, and all that stuff.
Todd: Speaking very eloquently.
Craig: Yeah. Well-educated. And I feel like the movie is really pointed in targeting that particular group of people. It’s a little narrow-minded. I get that it’s an hour and 25 minute movie, so it’s not like you can explore all of the social constructs of America. But if I fell on that side of the political spectrum, I would feel like it wasn’t a fair representation because I know many many very decent good-natured kind conservatives and and Republicans and not all of them are the way that they’re being portrayed here. And the movie doesn’t go so far as to call out a particular political party, but it seems very pointed, and I could see how that would be off-putting to some people.
Todd: Well, and it doesn’t have to be as pointed, you know, and that’s another criticism, I think. Sometimes the movie is a little too on the nose with it. It’s like, you know, we get it, you can be more subtle. Like what you said, the name-calling is just so nasty. It’s like, oh please, you know, I mean, you’d have to be a really awful depraved person to just even talk about another human being like that. It would be just as realistic for these people to say look he’s just a you know even just the dregs of the society or he is an undesirable or something like that, you know, as the way that we as human beings will often try to use coded language or use downplayed language, dog whistles, if you will, to feel more comfortable talking about things without being so direct.
Craig: Well, yeah, but again, and that’s where I think the movie was just a few years ahead of its time because I see that kind of ugliness on the news and on social media all the time.
Todd: It’s true, now.
Craig: It’s like people have been emboldened to behave that way. And you know, I never thought that racism went away. You know, I always knew it was there, but it was quieter. And there was just kind of an understanding that if you had those beliefs, you’re better off keeping it quiet in public society. You know, maybe in the privacy of your home and with people who you know share your same feelings, then you would have a little bit more safety. But now it just seems like for many, and certainly not for everybody, and I don’t think that America is some dystopian society or anything, but for some people, they feel emboldened enough. And to call this guy street trash and a pig, I have seen so much uglier stuff in real life. Yeah, true. Which makes it even scarier, I suppose.
Todd: Well, To me, I’m thinking he’s trying to persuade, right? He’s trying to persuade him to let him go. I would have thought he would have kind of assumed that the more polite he would be, even talking about this guy, the more likely he could hedge his bets that they would hand him over. But maybe then again, that’s what the movie’s saying, is that everybody in this neighborhood would maybe talk this way, you know, or accept it.
Craig: Right, but I feel like that’s what’s going on. Like he assumes that they share his sentiment because of who they are. Again, I hate to bring race into it, but again, you can’t not bring it into it. I think that this guy, this polite, and the guy that plays the leader of this group does a really good job. He’s very chilling. He’s very chilling. He seems very entitled, emboldened, and he plays it all with a very cool affect that’s really unsettling and he does a good job.
Todd: No, it’s like you said, that’s where the funny games feeling comes in, he’s straight off of that. The actor’s name is Reese Wakefield, he wasn’t in funny games, but he’s basically playing 1 of those characters.
Craig: Yeah, and I read that he got cast on the very last day of casting. Like everybody else that had auditioned was playing it way over the top and he came in and just delivered it in this really cool, calm fashion with this just kind of chilling smile and chilling gaze and the filmmakers were just thrilled because you know it just worked perfectly and they were down to the wire. So he does a good job, but it’s almost just like he just anticipates their comradery. He just expects that you’re 1 of us, you get it, so just hand them over to us. They’re not really opposed to doing that. First of all, there’s kind of a bit of silliness where the daughter’s boyfriend says that he’s gonna go down and have a man to man with the dad, but really he’s going to try to kill him. I just think it’s such a stupid plot point, like, oh well yeah, I’m going to talk to your dad so we can be together and then I’m going to come back upstairs and be like, well I killed him instead, but at least now we can be together. Like, okay, Good plan, Romeo.
Todd: It’s so dumb, yeah. Although this apparently happens, you know, I don’t know.
Craig: I guess, well, and I also read that this was a rewrite. Like, initially it was supposed to be the daughter who was actually gonna try to kill the dad. Oh my gosh. But the studio didn’t like it, and so they forced a rewrite and wrote in this boyfriend, and it’s all just kind of stupid, and it doesn’t really matter anyway. But that happens at the same time that these people are showing up. So there’s all kinds of things going on. When the guy, the poor guy, gets in, the thing that the family is most concerned about is their safety. Well, then all of a sudden this new group of people shows up and they’re demanding that they turn over this guy to them. And it’s not that they’re entirely opposed to that. They don’t know where the guy is. You know, like he’s hiding in the house. He knows that he’s prey. He knows that he’s the hunted. It’s not like they’re in their toast and marshmallows together or anything. And so it becomes very like there’s a whole cat and mouse thing in the house where they’re running around looking for the guy and they don’t I mean eventually they find him which leads to what I feel like is supposed to be the character’s enlightenment like oh we realize that if we turn him over, we’re just as bad as they are. And so ultimately they decide that they’re not going to, and instead they’re just gonna stand their ground and fight for their home. But it just, the epiphany, it’s just too sudden and it just doesn’t ring true to me at all.
Todd: I agree with you, I do. And I was really on board with the movie up until this point. I felt like they were building a really solid web here. Because even still when this guy was led in, we’re really not even sure of his intentions. Right. We’re not even sure if he’s actually seeking sanctuary or if he’s part of a plot or if he’s just, you know, another guy just trying to get in, this is way of getting into the house, if he might be with, because we’ve had that little sinister bit with the neighbors, I thought maybe it was part of this plot by the neighbors to take these guys out. And so when they’re inside the house, they’ve got the threat from the guys outside who are saying, who’ve set up this real moral dilemma, right? We’ll let you go if you just turn this guy who you don’t even know, don’t even care about over. And then you have this guy who may or may not turn against the family, right? So they’re not even sure. And then you have the son who is actively trying to help this guy hide, who’s, you know, potentially putting his family in danger because of it. He’s got this little robot that’s running around and he’s guiding the guy into a hiding spot. And indeed, the sister tries to go to that same hiding spot and he springs out and holds her up as a hostage. So wow, nobody really knows what’s gonna happen. You can’t even trust the people outside the door that once you turn this guy over they’re gonna be true to their word because they’re freaking psycho and they yes they make no bones about that either it’s like a weird it’s like again it’s almost over-the-top weird how these people are outside skipping and dancing around like wearing daisies in their hair like hippies, you know or whatever and wearing these Smiling masks, you know, which which again it creates that dichotomy, you know, that’s really really spooky You know, good guy Fox mask or whatever.
Craig: But yeah the the director I’m looking for his name James DeMonaco he wrote and directed it. Oh, right, okay. And he’s been pivotal to this whole series, like he’s stuck with it. It’s almost the only stuff that he’s done. But apparently his whole life he has been fascinated with Charles Manson and the Manson family. And so he based these characters kind of on the Manson family, which is why, you know, they’re kind of hippie, you know, and the girls are in these, you know, kind of flowy dresses and they’re skipping around barefoot and it’s all kind of, you know, 1960s free love kind of stuff. And I thought that that was interesting. But again, it is a movie, so I don’t expect it to be some sort of manifesto, but I just feel like there was so much that kind of went unexplored. Like, like you said, this guy in their house, they don’t know who it is and we don’t know anything about him. I remember thinking the first time I saw the movie, I bet he’s in on the plot. I bet he’s just a lure or some sort of distraction or something. And it turns out that he’s not. But 1 of the things that I feel like it doesn’t really explore enough is the survival instinct. I mean, you see it in this guy. We don’t, again, we don’t know anything about him, but it doesn’t seem like he has any mal intent. He just wants to survive. But when push comes to shove, he is willing to hold the daughter hostage. And I believed him when he said, because the mom and the dad both end up holding guns on him. And he says, if you don’t put your guns down, I’ll hurt her and then I’ll hurt you. And I thought that it was interesting that he said hurt instead of kill, you know, kind of gave me the impression he didn’t want to kill anybody, but if he had to, he would do what he had to to survive. And I also thought that in that moment where they do, they best him, they get him down on the ground somehow, knock him out, and then they tie him up in duct tape, but he wakes up before they can secure him to a chair. And so the dad has him down on the ground and he tells the mom, get the letter opener and push it into his wound. And she does, she gets this letter opener and he’s got this big wound in his side and she just stabs him, you know? Like she sticks it in until he complies, which he eventually does, and then they get him tied up, but then, you know, they just get these looks from their kids, like I can’t believe you’re doing this.
Clip: I can’t. Oh yes you can, baby. I can’t. Baby, I need you right now, okay? Hey, look at me, Huh? Look at me, Mary. Mary. What’s wrong? This is so wrong. It’s so wrong. This is so wrong. We don’t have any other choice. We don’t have a choice. Don’t touch me. Okay? Look at you. I’m sorry. No, no, no. Don’t touch me. When did this happen?
Craig: Again, it’s that whole moment of epiphany where the dad kind of gets a look on his face like, oh yeah, I can’t believe we’re doing this. And I think that part of the reason that it rang false to me was just that it happened so quickly. And also I don’t know what I would do in their situation. And I consider myself a decent human being. I mean, if you’ve got a choice between saving a stranger who you don’t know and who has, even if it was in self-defense, threatened your family, you have the choice between saving them and putting your entire family at devastating risk or just surrendering them over, I don’t know what I would do. And probably, I would have probably gave him up. You know, like. Yeah,
Todd: it’s probably, I mean, yeah. And it is a really interesting moral dilemma It is a and it’s very very well set up Well, anyway that moral dilemma is really well set up Like you say the way it plays out from here on out at least from to my mind was extremely disappointing There really aren’t I don’t know. I suppose there’s another twist coming not for me I found the movie entirely predictable from here on out. I was a little disappointed he wasn’t in on the plot. You know, I was a little disappointed that it became so straightforward, but I was willing to go along with it because as soon as okay, so you’re right You’re absolutely right. I didn’t think it really rang true dad’s conversion to okay We’re gonna stick but but he says he says in the movie says we’re gonna stay and fight and I was sitting here going F. Yeah, you know, all right. This is it You know, this is the die-hard moment and and this movie in a way reminded me a lot of straw dogs. Have you ever seen straw dogs? The Dustin Hoffman movie? It’s personally, that’s my favorite home invasion movie, because it seems to be fairly true to what a home invasion would actually be like. We’re not all going to turn into Bruce Willis and suddenly get the strength to be able to fight people and to be able to think quickly and create traps and do whatever. We’re just gonna bumble around and we will be really, really lucky if we come out on top because we’ve never had experience with guns before. We’ve never had experience under this kind of duress. We don’t have military training, none of this stuff. We’re just average, boring, slightly overweight guys who have, you know, desk jobs, you know, not you, me. Right. So,
Craig: you know? I was, I just thought you were talking about Dustin Hoffman. I wasn’t taking it personally. But thanks.
Todd: I’m just relating myself to Dustin Hoffman. And you know that I can relate to that because that is how I would be. I would talk tough because I had to, because I felt like I had to. But inside I’d be terrified and I’d be shaking and I’d be, you know, it would be impossible. You watch that movie and you think this guy is so inept and he knows he’s inept and he’s trying to rise to the occasion but it’s just so impossible because of who he is and I thought that’s what we were gonna kind of get with this movie. You got this family that’s completely sheltered, the guy sells this to… I mean he has a few guns in a closet that he says, that he opens up early and says just in case, but you don’t get the sense that any of them have ever gone target practicing. Again, it’s just these toys that they have, but they’re up against people who really mean business, and now they gotta defend themselves, and I thought, okay, this is gonna be the movie. And from here on out, it just hit every predictable beat I thought it would the people who come who you know they tear off the doors like it’s nothing
Craig: well that’s something that I feel like we kind of neglected and I think that it’s part of the social commentary is that the dad has to confess, you know, once these people attack the house and they turn off the electricity, the mom’s like, well, they can’t get in here, right? And the dad’s like, well. And he explains to her, he’s like, well the security system works, it looks really good, and we’ve done all these tests and it works 99% of the time because these things don’t happen here. These things don’t happen to us. So really, these security systems, more than anything, are a symbol. Yeah. We are protected because we are wealthy. They really don’t have much practical effect at all. And I thought that was an interesting, and it also adds to the guilt of the dad. And I thought that was interesting commentary, like we’re so sheltered, we’re so protected, but what we’re really protected by is our status and our money.
Todd: Yeah, it was brilliant in that way. So now I’m trying to figure out what the point that they’re trying to make because they really do a pointed job of, like we said, kind of like making these killers who come in or like the Manson family, whatever. I’m trying to think what point they’re trying to make here because these folks who are able to tear down the security system who are so Self-assured that they’re gonna come in and murder everybody They don’t have any armor. No, they don’t all have guns A few of them just have some some some knives and they seem totally uninterested in their own safety. Yeah. They just wander in and skip through the halls. It’s like they’re just trying to be as creepy as possible.
Craig: Well, and they treat it like it’s a game. And I suppose that that’s what it is for them. And Maybe that’s what we’re supposed to think. Maybe just like the family thought, oh, we’ll be fine because of who we are. I feel like that’s kind of what these invaders feel like too. We’ll be fine. What’s going to happen to us? Nothing’s going to happen to us. Maybe. I think what you’re getting to and what kind of bothered me is that all of a sudden when he says we’re going to protect the house, then all of a sudden Ethan Hawke turns into Rambo. Like He fights off like 6 or 7 guys like in a row like they just keep coming at him in a game room Which
Todd: you know the irony wasn’t lost on me there either, right? Yeah, it’s in this game room where he’s got a pool table and they’re doing flips over each other and he’s you know Ducking away at the right times and and he’s just fighting against some people with axes and knives and things where and he’s got a gun and it gets taken away but it’s just so I wouldn’t say it’s boring but it gets boring kind of in the way that when you see this over the top Rambo type action you realize oh he’s going to end up on top anyway and so what I’m seeing doesn’t really matter, you know, how it plays
Craig: out.
Todd: And so I thought it was just very paint by the numbers, and for the most part, everything, I mean, I called, almost everything that’s gonna happen. All right, he’s gonna take all these people out. Oh, this person’s gonna come around the corner and do this. Oh, there’s gonna be a standoff here. The poor black guy who we haven’t seen for the last 20 minutes, he’s gonna come in at the end and save them. All of this stuff, it happens. And I don’t think there was a single thing in this movie that I found unpredictable that surprised me.
Craig: Well, I was kind of taken back by the twist at the end. I mean, you’re right. He fights all these people and then, you know, so like he’s just taken out a bunch of people and then he turns a corner and the main creepy guy just stabs him right in the gut with this big serrated knife. And it’s shocking because it happens very quickly but it’s kind of anti-climactic and then he dies in his family’s arms and then the main creepy guy, you know, kind of showboats like, oh, well, you know, we didn’t want to do this, but here we are. And like, he’s going to kill the whole family. And then you’re right. The guy that they inadvertently took in steps in and saves the day, which kind of makes sense because the kids have been, especially the son has been helping him out. So it would make sense that he would help them out. But I also, Again, it’s a little on the nose. It didn’t bother me because I was rooting for that poor guy, even though we didn’t know anything about him. I wanted him to be okay, and I wanted him to be kind of heroic. But even earlier on, when he was tied up and they were kind of having their epiphany moment, he said to the dad, save your family, give me to them. You know, he doesn’t come out and say it’s fine, but that’s the subtext. Like he’s willing in that moment to sacrifice himself. And it may be a little bit on the nose, but still at the same time, it was nice to see some human decency in this movie that’s filled with such garbage people. Yeah. But the twist, all of a sudden, we see the neighbors coming in, and they just immediately take out everybody else.
Todd: Yeah, it’s like a dance ex machina It’s it’s is what it is. Yeah. Yeah, come in and save the day.
Craig: I really thought Finally, you know some decency, you know, these people, you know, they see that their neighbors are in trouble and they’re going to help their neighbors. But then it turns it completely on its ear. And it turns out that because they’re so jealous, and because they feel like they’ve been fleeced, you know, for this family’s benefit, they’re pissed and they’re going to kill the whole family. And it’s even worse because the guy that they should have a problem with is the dad and he’s already dead. And the main lady, whatever her name is, Grace or whatever her name is, says, well, he’s already dead, so I guess the wife and kids will just have to do. And like you said, they do that whole thing where like it’s ritualistic and they’re standing around them in a circle.
Todd: It’s, you know, it’s kind of, it didn’t ring entirely true to me, simply because if the kid had not brought this guy in, who clearly is not part of this plot, who just was a guy running down the street. None of this would have happened and nor would the neighbors have, did they have any other plan or way that we could see to come into the house? You know, they didn’t stage this and so it’s like they’re just looking out their windows and they see this opportunity. Yeah. That everything’s been torn down so they too can go in and so okay, I guess, you know, so it wasn’t a plot but they said they were opportunistic and she even says, I think her exact words are something like, we saw the opportunity to cleanse ourselves of our hatred. And that’s where it gets a little religious. She’s not really talking about their jealousy. She’s not, she’s talking about cleansing ourselves of our hatred through this purge. And so Again, it comes back to this whole notion that this purge is not just a political, but it also is this supposed to fulfill these deep, innate human needs.
Craig: Sure, right. But the black guy saves the day. He takes out, I think he takes out a couple of them and the rest of them just kind of cower and an interesting part I thought was when the neighbors who have now been overpowered are just kind of standing there in a line And the mom and the homeless guy from outside, I think both have guns and are pointing them at them. And the creepy neighbor, Grace, is like, just do it. Just do it, just get it over with. And the mom’s like, no, there’s not going to be any more killing tonight. See, she’s found her humanity. It’s all been worth it. So, so they just sit the rest of the night waiting for the 12 hours to expire at the table And right before the 12 hours expire, Grace, the neighbor, makes 1 final attempt, but luckily the mom, it’s so satisfying. The mom grabs her and just smashes her face
Todd: into the table. That was satisfying.
Craig: And like totally destroyed her face. Yeah, I loved it.
Todd: And they have to walk out, you know, and this is the thing that the movie leaves you with, which again is very interesting, but again, it’s just yet another point they’re trying to make. And that is, well, I mean, they’re gonna have to move, right? That’s, I know, that’s what I was-
Craig: How they face each
Todd: other the next day, you know?
Craig: Yeah, I was watching it with my partner last night and like that part happened where they’re walking out and I was like, okay, see you at the neighborhood association meeting at 10. Like, I’ll bring brunch.
Todd: Cookies, oh, we didn’t finish those cookies, you left me the night before. In 1 way, it sort of highlights a little bit how ridiculous this premise is in that this is something that you’ve got to deal with. There’s going to be attempts made on people’s lives that are unsuccessful during this night, and what, are people just gonna forgive it? Like, 12 hours everything is forgiven, but then you gotta live with these people from there on out. So if you didn’t manage to kill your boss, are you gonna have a job tomorrow? Nothing can be that neat in that pat, and it feels like, and you know, the movie doesn’t really address that, but at least it kind of leaves you with that feeling knowingly I think
Craig: well I was just going to say that on the 1 hand Where you know, that’s that’s kind of ridiculous On the other hand, it’s it’s kind of true to life because you do have to coexist with people, even people that you adamantly disagree with. Now, of course, obviously, this is an extreme. But I have felt offended by people that I continue to have to coexist with. And the 1 thing that I will say that this movie doesn’t really address and that is actually kind of a, you know, a light in the darkness in our current situation is that many times today when people behave in these disturbing ways, they are held accountable. Especially today in the advent of everybody’s got a camera, a video camera in their pocket at all times. You know, when people do some terrible things, they often are held accountable and some, you know, they lose jobs or they’re ostracized or whatever. And I suppose at least there’s that and hopefully that will continue.
Todd: Mm-hmm. That’s a very good point. You say that it’s very Pat and it’s a very, okay, now the mom has found herself. Now the father has decided that they’re going to fight instead of turning this guy over. And it is. And that’s really troublesome, I think, from the movie standpoint. On the other hand, it seems like maybe they’re also trying to make this point like, yeah, we don’t care about this stuff until it affects us personally. It’s true. You know, we have these ideas and these feelings and this patriotism and this whatever, and now suddenly that they’re actually bearing the brunt of this, now they’re changing their tune and maybe the purge isn’t so great after all. And I feel like that’s the point they leave us with because as the credits go up on the screen we hear audio and it’s basically more of newscasts post-purge and they’re interviewing different people on the street and the last 1 that we get is an interview from a man.
Clip: I lost my 2 sons last night. My boys, I was a proud American. Not anymore. This country’s taking everything from me.
Todd: And again, I just keep going back to the military. That is not an uncommon feeling that people have. You’re very patriotic. You feel like you’re doing things for the right reason, or you feel like you have a son or a daughter who are out there fighting for your country, and everything is well and good and right until they come back dead, and suddenly you start questioning, you know? Did they die for the right cause? You know, am I on the right side? And it’s very, and it’s sad, you know, that we do. We just, we turn a blind eye. In fact, not just turning a blind eye, but we get really militant about things sometimes and about these ideas and notions. And then, you know, oh, now I have cancer and now I have a whole different idea about medicine or about whatever, about life and what’s important. As much as I think the movie tries to make this point, it’s tried to make about 5 or 6 other points as well. And while it can do that, it’s not a big deal, and it certainly gives us a lot to talk about, I just feel like it could have been a little more focused in the thematic area. And then as far as the movie goes, I just kind of lost interest as soon as he became Rambo and all of the bad guys stopped seeing so sinister. They talked a big game, but then they walked in skipping and tripping and doing nothing to help themselves. It was just too predictable at that point.
Craig: Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t think it’s a bad movie. I mean, it’s not poorly made. I thought that the acting was fine, even though I did not think that this was Ethan Hawke’s best work by any stretch of the imagination. The writer slash director, I feel like he had a lot of ideas and maybe He was really fortunate that it did so well because he was able to kind of flesh those out in some of the later films. Now, the second 1 got really good reviews and then the other ones, and especially the last 1 I think, didn’t do as well either critically or as far as audience reception goes and I don’t even recall if I I know I haven’t seen the last 1 I don’t recall if I saw the third 1 or not but they
Todd: We did do a limited TV series, which actually has been picked up for a second season. And I really enjoyed the series quite a bit because it was larger in scope. It dealt with a variety of different characters from different walks of life. And it was entertaining. And my partner who doesn’t like horror, he enjoyed it as well and we’re looking forward to the second season. So I think and especially now, like again I’ve said it before but I think that the movie was maybe just a little tiny bit ahead of its time politically, but I understand why now it’s continuing to be successful because I think that we can draw more parallels. Not to say, again, that we are living in that world. But I think that the world that we are living in has opened our eyes to what possibilities could be. And maybe that’s why the franchise is continuing to thrive.
Craig: Yeah, I think you’re right. And well, in the first 1, clearly got its audience. It was only a 3000000 dollar budget and it grossed 89 million. It was, it actually at the time it came out was the lowest budgeted film to finish first at the box office since like 1988. So they would have been stupid. I mean, he got his wish, he got his sequels for sure. And thankfully, like you said, this plot of this movie is much better fleshed out when you expand the scope beyond this family. It’s just a little too problematic as a home invasion movie. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode. Thank you, Karthik, for listening as well and for speaking up and giving us the suggestion. Obviously, we had a lot to talk about. We did. Also, if you have any requests, we’re still taking them. Please find us on Facebook, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. You can also find us on our webpage, chainsawhorror.com and leave us a comment there as well. Let us know what you think.