Phantasm II (1988)

Episode 507, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd. 

Craig: And I’m Craig. 

Todd: Well, we come to you with another tribute episode. It’s been a little while since we’ve done one, ha- no, we did a tribute episode a couple episodes ago, didn’t we? 

Craig: Yeah, but I bet our listeners won’t find this one much of a surprise if they keep up on the news at all.

Todd: Yeah. Today, we are mourning the death of Reggie Bannister, very prolific actor in horror, who is best known for his breakout role in Phantasm, one of my all-time favorite horror movies. So we decided that since we hadn’t really done much else in the Phantasm series in all these years, that we would dive back in there as tribute to him with 1988’s Phantasm II.

I had seen Phantasm II in high school, and I remember at the time thinking, “Whoa, this is quite different from the original in tone.” And so, uh, I was curious to see if my impressions of it this time around matched what I remembered, and I think, yeah, it kinda did. It really did match how I, I remember, and I can’t wait to talk about that.

What’s your history with this movie, Craig? 

Craig: Uh, I really didn’t grow up watching this. I, I wish that I had given myself time to go back and listen to our original discussion on the first one because it’s been so long. And, and I feel like it was, you know, not long before that that I had watched the whole series from start to finish pretty much all at once.

So when I was introduced to Phantasm, I, I mean, I knew f- like, the orb and the Tall Man, the imagery was stuff that was familiar to me. I just hadn’t actually seen the movies. Mm. And once I finally got around to seeing them, I watched all of them. At that point, I think the first three, maybe the first four were out.

I know that Ravager wasn’t out yet. I remember that Ravager came out later, and I saw it later. But I kind of, I kind of knocked them all out at once, which is a different experience, I think. It’s, it’s an interesting series. I’m, I’m a little surprised that we haven’t come back to it. In hindsight, I don’t know.

I think this was the right choice. It might have been interesting to do something like Ravager, which, you know, Reggie Bannister, he was the, pretty much the anchor of this series along with Angus Scrimm, but I think Ravager came out even after Angus Scrimm had passed away. Reggie Bannister really was kind of the anchor of, of the whole series, and, and it spans almost four decades, so- Yeah

it might have been kind of interesting to look at the last one. But this one has some interesting backstory, and fan opinions are mixed, and so I think we’ll have plenty to talk about. 

Todd: Yeah, we cer- we certainly will. I think Ravager came out in 2016. That was the only one except for the first two… Well, I guess the first two and that one got a theatrical release, and the rest went straight to video.

So I guess we’re talking the third one and the fourth one went straight to video. I think that same year is when Reggie Bannister was diagnosed with Lewy body dementia and Parkinson’s disease. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: He acted quite a bit- Up to that point, and then he had a couple movies after that, and then I think just, uh, retired from acting to take care of his health.

And, uh, I think we knew last year that his health was deteriorating. 

Craig: He’s been unwell for a while. I, I think that his, his family or, or whoever is in control of his estate was, uh, was even reaching out to fans, I think, to help finance his living situation and his healthcare needs. I mean, he’s, he’s been in bad shape for a while.

So this didn’t really come as a big surprise and, and that’s sad that he was unwell and that he’s passed, but he had a really unique but cool career. Like, he’s one of those… Phantasm, I feel like isn’t as well-known as, let’s just say, the Evil Dead franchise, ’cause I feel like that’s kind of the best comparison with Bruce Campbell as Ash.

I mean, he’s kind of the Bruce Campbell- Yeah … Reggie Bannister is the Bruce Campbell of this series. And this is another one of those unique series that follows a direct continuity start to finish. There really aren’t lots of contradictions. There’s evolution and some things change along the way, but it’s a, it’s a direct continuity following Reggie Bannister’s character, Reggie, and, and the other central characters with the central antagonists throughout all of them.

So he may not have been an A-list guy, but he certainly had like, you know, a storied career, uh- Yeah … and, and r- really cool connections with, with Don Coscarelli. And so it’s, it’s cool to be able to kind of talk about him and celebrate. This was such, so special and meaningful to him and, and he was always, uh, really appreciative of the support that he got from fans.

This is something that he really embraced, so to get to kind of celebrate him after his passing feels good. 

Todd: Yeah. It’s kinda sad. He was, um… Well, it’s, it’s good. It’s great, actually, because he got into acting after a pretty rough time in the military. He was in the Vietnam War. He was drafted. He, he was against it, but he got drafted, so he became a, kind of more of a frontline soldier.

I think he was a radio operator for an automatic weapons specialty group. And because he was around these weapons so often, big weapons, like, he ultimately got some hearing loss- And, uh, he was exposed to Agent Orange. So I think he, when he retired, he got some disability and, uh, also took his GI Bill from the military and decided that the next thing he was gonna do was use that money to study acting.

So, uh, it’s really cool that he could transition into this, and very lucky that very early in his screen acting career, you know, basically within two years he got that role in Phantasm. 

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: He didn’t really get another role until nine years later with this movie. 

Craig: Yeah, he had kinda quit. Like, I think he had intentionally kinda quit.

Todd: Um- W- yeah. Didn’t he even spend some time embalming bodies in a funeral home in the meantime? Yeah. This is crazy. 

Craig: Yeah. A- and, and he was a musician, too, and he was in other stuff. I mean, this is what he’s known for, and a lot of the other stuff that he was in, he appears in, like, horror or indie cameos.

Todd: Small roles usually. 

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. I, I remember seeing him in Wishmaster or one of the Wishmasters and- 

Todd: Yeah, the first Wishmaster. He was a pharmacist in that. We did that one here. We did Silent Night, Deadly Night 4: The Initiation, one of my all-time favorites. Yeah, 

Craig: yeah. 

Todd: He was in that. 

Craig: And he’s really recognizable because he’s n- got a unique look, and he’s not a glamorous Hollywood leading man type.

He’s much more of an everyman kinda guy. But over the course of this franchise, he got to… His character got to evolve from kind of a dopey sidekick to, you know, a badass chainsaw, sawed-off shotgun-wielding, leather-wearing action hero kinda- I mean- And, and, and that starts here, but by, by the last one, he’s, like, a post-apocalyptic, like, Mad Max-type character.

Like how much- Wow … you know, how fun. H- you know, no wonder he embraced it. How fun to get to see a character in a story through that kind of evolution. It’d be awesome. 

Todd: Very Bruce Campbell in that way, huh, like you said earlier. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: Just, like, almost a very similar type character, but his own unique spin on it.

You know, Bruce Campbell’s got that smarmy, good-looking, badass kind of look, and this is the everyman kinda forced into doing what he can but taking it up with enthusiasm. I, you know, uh, there’s such a stark contrast between the first movie and this movie. And unlike you, I haven’t seen the others in the series, so I remembered when I was a kid seeing this movie and thinking, “Ugh-” It’s kind of disappointing because it doesn’t have that dreamlike, ethereal, surreal quality of the original.

One thing I just love about the original movie is just how weird it is. 

Craig: Right. 

Todd: And that weirdness translates into, for me anyway, into a very unsettling terror, and I think this is why it’s just one of my all-time favorite movies is because it’s a rare movie that I just feel the way I feel when I’m watching Phantasm.

Craig: I feel like this is an excellent example of the price you pay for studio. Y- you know, w- when- Right … when you get a studio involved, when a studio is in charge, yeah, they’re gonna give you a lot more money than you’re going to get otherwise. But they have a lot of control and expectations, and this movie comes almost 10 years after the original.

I guess sequels were doing well, making money, and Don Coscarelli’s former lawyer or something worked at Universal, I think, and was a big fan of horror and, and just kind of pushed this through, and they gave it a, a much higher budget. W- what was it, like $3 million, I think? 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: For this, which I don’t remember how, b- but the, the first movie was very, very low budget.

But it came with demands and a more linear storyline and moving away from that more ethereal, dreamlike… And, and what I, I remembered in the first one was an uncertainty about what was happening and what was real and what wasn’t real because you were kind of jumping in and out of dreams and reality.

And to be fair, it was a little confusing, and I think that there was an attempt in this movie to make it more linear and a little bit less confusing, which is fine, but you’re right, I think it takes away from some of the charm. The other big change was that the studio, for sure I know, wanted to recast both of the leads.

Now, I didn’t read anything about Angus Scrimm. I can’t imagine anybody wanting to recast him, but they wanted to recast both of the principal leads, and Coscarelli had to fight. I mean, both of the original actors had to audition, and Coscarelli was basically given the Hobson’s choice, like, you know, you can…

It’s one or the other. Either way you’re gonna lose somebody, but he picked Reggie Bannister, and so the other lead, Mike, is played by a different guy in this one, which I can understand why fans of the original didn’t like that But the studio wanted somebody more recognizable, and so they passed on Brad Pitt and picked this guy, and- 

Todd: Yep, and then they went right back to, uh, the guy from the original for the, the, the f- the subsequent sequels, right?

Craig: They did. I, and I, I don’t know why. I, I imagine probably based on fan response. But yeah, he played… The original guy came back. And I remember reading the IMDb trivia about the first one when we did this, the first one, like 10 years ago. 

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: And I remember reading that he was still kind of salty about it.

Well, that was 10 years ago. Who knows if he’s still- … salty about it. But I, I mean, I get it. It would be… I would be mad, too, if I was the one guy who got recast. Um, but the, the, the guy that they recast does fine. I, I think it’s just, especially since, you know, Angus Scrimm and Reggie Bannister both came back, this new guy, I think, just, I don’t know, didn’t have much of a chance.

His name’s James LeGros. And I knew I recognized him, but I couldn’t figure out what it was from. He has been in a movie that I’ve seen. He’s in a, uh, adaptation of Macbeth called Scotland, Pennsylvania. It’s a modern-day retelling set in the ’70s, the 1970s. And I haven’t seen it in its entirety since the ’90s, but I remember really liking it.

I show some clips of it in my class when I do Macbeth. But the one thing that I r- I, I recognized him for sure from was he was in one episode of Friends- 

Todd: Oh … 

Craig: where he was a guy who went on a date with Phoebe. And he was super obnoxious, and she a- she’s like, “So what do you do?” And he’s like, “I write erotic novels for children.”

“They’re wildly unpopular.” And then his, his other good line was, “I also have a PhD.” And she’s like, “Oh, that’s interesting.” “Yep, a pretty huge…” And then she cuts him off. I always- Oh … thought that was a funny line. Funny. 

Todd: He got the good lines at least. 

Craig: Yeah. So if you are a Friends fan, he’s, uh, that guy. And he’s fine, and he did beat out Brad Pitt.

And they threw in a couple girls for no good reason. Yeah. Okay, there’s girls in it now too. And those were the studio’s demands. And they did it, and it’s fine, but it certainly is a move away from, I think, some of what made the original interesting and, you know- 

Todd: Scary. I would say scary too, because I don’t find this movie quite as scary.

Honestly, because the, the first movie is really all about these people, and stuff is happening to them. Now, the kid gets very investigative because he’s freaking out about what’s happening in the cemetery and what’s happening with the, you know, the stuff and the, and bodies are disappearing. So he, you know, he gets wrapped up in a thing that he feels that he has to explore, and then his brother ends up kind of getting involved.

But in general, they are just victims and there, there’s, things are happening that they can’t explain. The Tall Man keeps visiting them and, and all this. They end, end up do, I think, having a final scene, right, where they’re in the- 

Craig: Mortuary or whatever. Yeah … 

Todd: mortuary. And the explanation is just totally bonkers.

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: It’s just totally bonkers and I love it. It’s just the weirdest crea- most weirdly creative thing. So you also have these orbs that are flying through the air, which are pretty unique also. I mean, I don’t think horror did anything like this before. And what’s the deal with the orbs, you know? There’s just so much strange stuff happening, but it’s scary and the Tall Man is scary and he’s menacing, and there’s just this threat and you don’t know what’s going on.

And I just love that movie to death for it. This movie picks up right where the one, the other one left off. 

Craig: Exactly, 

Todd: right. At least it finishes out the scene for us, right? Basically, the Tall Man has one of his goons come through the mirror in one of those, like, Friday the 13th style endings, right, where suddenly Jason appears and, and grabs them when they think they’re safe.

Coscarelli thought that the first movie was just a complete story and he loved the ending, and he only wrote this movie because of money and because he was pressured to do it. But he said once he f- figured he could just start from the ending of the first movie, things started to fall into place. 

Craig: Yeah.

And he was inspired by Salem’s Lot, the Stephen King- 

Todd: Mm … 

Craig: novel. At the end, the very, very end of that story, the main characters go on, like, a vampire hunt, like a, a road trip, hunt 

Todd: Yeah 

Craig: And, and when I say the very end of the story, it’s like the last couple pages. Like, they just- Yeah … they decide- It’s just like-

they’re gonna go off on this thing. And that was kind of what inspired this. And I, and I think that is fine. I think that that’s a, a fine way to go with it, and I f- I’m pretty sure it kind of carries through the rest of the movies. I think all of the rest of them are kind of road movies. If I remember correctly.

I could be wrong. It’s been a long time. 

Todd: You’re right. It’s fine to do, and, you know, it’s a great way to continue a series when you’re being asked to continue it, but it definitely changes the whole character of the film. So now it’s these two on a vigilante mission against The Tall Man, who takes a while to appear, and the c- the notion is that he’s now going from town to town doing this thing and leaving empty towns, I guess, behind him.

Craig: Yeah, which is weird because in the original, wasn’t, didn’t he have some history in the town where they were? Like, he had been there for, for a long time or something? 

Todd: I don’t remember exactly. 

Craig: I- I don’t remember exactly either. But what was interesting, well, to me, about the first one was every- everything that was happening was so weird, and you kept kind of seeing new, even more weird parts of it up until the end, where things aren’t really explained except for you know that there’s another dimension and he’s, like, taking bodies out of these cemeteries and crushing them down into these little troll like people.

Troll-type creatures. I call them Dinks because they remind me of the Dinks from Spaceballs. Right. So that’s what I called them in my notes. But… And that’s what they look like. They look like little people that just, like, waddle around, and they’re, like, in monk robes and hoods. It’s funny. But he’s turning them in- he’s turning corpses into these things, and then these things are like his minions, and they’re, like, taking, I don’t know, these squashed down people to another dimension.

But why? I don’t kn- like, and I don’t feel like it really ever explains that. Yeah. And it doesn’t really matter. I think kind of one of my problems with this one, the sequel, is that we still have all of those elements, but it doesn’t really expand on them or explain them any further. 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: Like, it’s still, it’s still there.

It’s just there’s really nothing new. Okay, sure, there’s a new fancier orb that’s gold instead of silver, and it’s cool. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: But beyond that, there’s not really any expansion of the lore except for, and I- you’ll have to remind me. I don’t remember if this was part of the first one. In this one, it’s introduced very early on that Mike is now psychically connected to this random girl.

Todd: Ugh. 

Craig: And because they are psychic They have the power to defeat the Tall Man, and they just have to psychically find each other. 

Todd: Yeah. It’s unfortunate. 

Craig: And they do. And one of my favorite parts of the movie is that when they find each other, she’s running through a graveyard, and she falls into a grave, and Mike’s in there.

And so she falls into the grave and in love in the same second because they’ve never met before- … except for in their psychic dreams. And they just start- Right … making out the second that they meet. I thought that was great. Like, 

Todd: I guess there’s a lot of, a lot of psychic sex- psychosexual tension- 

Craig: Foreplay.

Yeah, there was a lot- … that’s been building over the years. There was a lot of, a lot of dream foreplay. It was good. But yeah. Okay. So there’s that, that psychic element of it, and then we mentioned that there are, like, love interests for each of the two male leads. Then this other girl shows up kind of out of nowhere, and I don’t really have any idea what’s going on with her.

Todd: That’s one of those sort of surreal elements that I guess kind of got by the studio or something, which didn’t want anything like that. At one point, when they’re hunting through one of these bombed out towns, one of the mor- one of the many morgues that they’re going to be exploring probably throughout the whole series, I imagine- 

Craig: Yeah, one of the giant marble mortuaries that they went- 

Todd: And then they go into, like, usually, like, the embalming room or something like that, and he sees a body, a woman’s body on the table.

He’s a little fascinated by it, but, you know, she seems dead, and he walks around, and you’re waiting for her to come alive or some crazy something to happen. But actually, he just flips around real quickly, or maybe it’s just as he’s walking out, she’s completely gone. And so you’re left wondering, did he dream her?

Was she really there? Is this some weird supernatural thing? You just never really know. A little bit later, he’s kind of daydreaming. It seems like he’s sort of falling asleep in the car as he and Reggie are driving to the next town- And either in his dream or maybe he gets a vision, I guess it’s in a, in a dream more or less, he sees her as a hitchhiker that they drive by.

And then he wakes up or kind of comes to, and he turns to Reggie and he’s like, “Oh, hey, how are things going? I, I had this weird dream. I saw this girl.” And then she pops up from the backseat and goes, “Oh, he- hey, hello. My name’s Alchemy. But you can call me-” 

Craig: Kimmy for short. 

Todd: Kemmy for short. Okay. 

Craig: Oh my God, Alchemy?

Come on. 

Todd: Ugh, so weird. And he’s like, “Oh, yeah, I just picked her up back there. I hope you didn’t mind.” And so I thought immediately this girl’s trouble, you know? 

Craig: Obviously. 

Todd: A mysterious trouble girl. 

Craig: But it’s so random, and she’s just kind of around for the rest of the time. 

Todd: Well, not only is it random, but it’s also…

It get- It’s, it’s almost like he’s just trying to check the boxes of the studio notes, right? He’s like, “Well, I guess I gotta give Reggie a love interest, too.” And so she and Reggie just get real comfortable very, very fast. 

Craig: And she’s super into him. 

Todd: Oh, big time. Big time into this balding middle… What does Re- 

Craig: Middle-aged…

Yeah. 

Todd: What does, what does, um, Mike say to him? There’s one of my favorite lines in the whole movie was when he turns to him, they’re, they’re a little, uh, down. 

Clip: Reg, who are we kidding? I’m a 19-year-old kid. You’re a bald, middle-aged ex-ice cream vendor. 

Thanks, Mike. 

Craig: Yeah. What are we looking at? 

Todd: But yeah- That’s funny.

I forgot about that … she was, she’s got a type, you know? So she was really into him, and they have this sort of sex scene with her underwear on. 

Craig: And hi- he’s fully clothed, which- … I, I get is, is, is- How they get- … possible, but … how they get in these situations, I 

Todd: don’t know. I mean, it can 

Craig: happen- You know … 

Todd: but, you know.

Craig: It’s, but it’s also hilarious. Like, I just kept thinking it was so funny because she’s very, she’s very beautiful, and I would guess at least 10 years… And she’s super into him. I, I read somewhere that she asked the director, Coscarelli, I guess, “Why, what is my motivation for- … wanting this guy?” And he was like, “Oh, you’ve got a bald fetish.”

And so then I guess she just totally played that up, and the sex scene is hilarious ’cause she’s- That explains it … super into his bald head. That, and rubbing it and- I know. And she’s just, like, rubbing her boobs on it and smacking it. I, God, I don’t remember where I read this. I was trying to look around, but I, I read that she was so into it, she was smacking his head so hard that it turned his scalp all red, and they had to like- Makeup

more than once apply makeup to his scalp- … to cover up the red from her smacking it. It’s a funny scene. That’s great. Oh, my God. I, ’cause I, I feel like the charm of the original comes through in little moments. And, and they’re those funnier moments when it’s u- and usually smaller moments, like between Mike and Reggie.

Like, when they’re talking or conferring or, or even, you know, putting together their silly, though effective, arsenal and, and outfits that they wear. I mean, like, it was really funny to me every time they would suit up, and Mike would be in a welding hat, and he’s got a, you know, the homemade flamethrower, and they’ve got the f- four-barreled sawed-off shotgun.

Like, the, the humor there and, and the kind of silliness, and a lot of that I think is attributed to Reggie Banister. That charm still comes through. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: It’s just not as consistent. Yeah. And, and I do think it’s that studio stuff that makes it not as great. And, and all the psychic stuff, like, I don’t understand.

Again, it, it’s really never explained, I don’t think. No. Why Liz is calling out to him psychically, “Mike, I know you’re out there. I need you. Soon my grandfather will die, and my visions will become real.” What are you talking about? 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: Like we, we don’t know this girl. 

Todd: How is this random girl getting visions of the Tall Man now?

Is, it’s- 

Craig: And what does her grandfather have to do with it? 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: I, I- And there’s 

Todd: a lot of scenes 

Craig: And eventually her grandfather does die and we go to his funeral. And like, I feel like the Tall Man is there and, and then the, the grandfather disappears out of his coffin, and then is just like popping up around places.

I, I really didn’t understand what was happening. 

Todd: Yeah. I read, and now this was news to me, but in my research, I don’t know where I read it, but it said that there was an element of the first two movies that was so confusing that they dropped it from the f- from the following movies. And that is this idea that the Tall Man appears to everyone else as a normal undertaker, but to people who are psychic, they can see him as he truly is.

I did not get that impression from the first movie in the slightest. 

Craig: No. I mean, I guess retroactively I could look back and say, “Okay,” but I don’t know. No, I didn’t get it. 

Todd: Well, there are other… He’s got like minions or s- or there are… Maybe they aren’t. I don’t know. There are other undertakers doing things in this movie.

Craig: Seemingly, right. I also thought that was weird. I was like, “Did they only have Angus Scrimm some days?” Because in those scenes where… And, and there are two of them, and they look exactly the same. I don’t know- Yeah … if they were, I don’t know if they were twins or just actors who were made up to look the same, but there are two of them.

And I didn’t know… There was one scene in particular where one of those undertakers has Liz, the blonde psychic girl, like in a crematorium. And I just kept thinking, “Why isn’t this Angus Scrimm?” Are they otherworldly? I mean, they, they seem a little pale with like dark circles around their eyes, but they also seem to be human.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Unlike Angus Scrimm, who seems to not be. 

Todd: Yeah. You know, everyone else is attacking them. Those are the little munchkin things. These undertakers really aren’t doing a lot of aggressive stuff. It’s like they’re coming in when, when they’re incapacitated or they’re… That maybe they think they’re dead And they’re wheeling them in.

Like, there’s that one scene where they wheel them into the furnace room, and then she comes alive. Yeah. And then he goes after her, and she gets the best of him. Then, then there’s that big scene in the hallway. 

Craig: That’s what I was gonna say. Because one of them is trying to attack Liz, I think. I don’t remember if this is…

They’re in mausoleums so often. Like, mausoleums all across the American Southwest. I don’t know. 

Todd: Massive old school- Yeah. … like, Gothic mausoleums. 

Craig: I don’t know if this is at her grandfather’s funeral. And, like, sometimes she’s in one by herself. Sometimes they’re in them together. I don’t know. But at some point she is being chased around by one of these undertaker guys, and what ends up saving her is the spheres come out.

There’s also a random priest. Yeah. I don’t even know if he’s worth talking about ’cause he doesn’t do anything. His sphere death is notable, so I guess we should talk about that. But at this one point, the… I was not confused, I guess, but the spheres come out, and you can kind of see, like, sphere vision. Hmm.

Yeah. But it goes, it goes through the hand of the undertaker. Once he’s pinned to the wall, another one comes around the corner, and it seems like it’s gonna, like, kill him or whatever. I don’t know that I understand the spheres. Right. Are they just, like, motion sensing? I, I guess they don’t differentiate between good guys and bad guys.

It’s just whoever is around. 

Todd: I, I- That was confusing, wasn’t it? I… The minute- Yeah … the spheres are attacking this guy when they seem to be aiming for the others. It’s like they ducked out of the way just in time. The sphere gets his hand, but now that it’s, it’s gonna go after him, and then the other one comes around, like you said, and that’s the gold Rambo one, right?

Which also has, like- A laser? A 

Craig: laser? 

Todd: They really up- Yeah. They really up the tech on these spheres in this one, I’ll tell you. It’s got a laser. It could, like, burn through doors. You know, the other thing about the spheres that was kind of creepy in the original too was that they just kind of fly through the air, but you don’t get the sense that they’re gonna stop, change course, turn around, float for a little while, wander up and down the hallway like they’re patrolling, like they have some personality.

Whereas these spheres do, or at least the Rambo sphere seems to have this bit to it. I mean, it kind of comes in almost like a, a droid from Star Wars when the two kids are hiding. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: And, and it’s got this laser scanning of the room and stuff. I mean, it’s, it’s a big difference. 

Craig: Yeah. I… You find out later in one of the movies that there are little brains in each one of those.

Todd: Oh my God. Okay. Wow. 

Craig: There’s a little human brain in each one. 

Todd: There’s- 

Craig: That, that’s all I remember. I don’t remember names. 

Todd: There’s some things you don’t even wanna know, you know? There’s some things you don’t wanna explain. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: But this is just emblematic, again, of how I think this second movie just totally changes the character of the original.

I mean, the second movie is just so action heavy and so much like, “We’re gonna go and hunt down the, the Tall Man and stop what he’s doing.” And in the beginning especially, i- it’s almost like even though you don’t see the Tall Man, I mean, the impression is the Tall Man’s on the run. And that, in a way, neuters him a little bit, I think.

Even though when he does appear, he’s got full control and nobody can really get him. He just- 

Craig: See, but another problem of mi- yeah. Another problem of mine is you said it’s action heavy, and I suppose it is, but nothing really happens. Like, they’re just constantly, I guess, one step behind him until they’re not anymore.

Todd: Right. Nothing happens to advance, like, the story beyond- 

Craig: Right … “

Todd: Oh, the Tall Man’s out there doing these things. We’ve gotta get him. Oh, we just missed him,” or, “Oh, we just had an encounter. Now we move to the next place.” Right. You know? It’s just like a chase. 

Craig: In Rob Reiner’s Stand by Me, there’s this one scene where they’re just talking about, like, they’re having deep philosophical conversations about the TV shows that they watch.

And Gordie’s like, “Have you ever noticed on Wagon Train they never get anywhere? They just keep on wagon training.” And like, that’s what this movie felt like. Yes. Yeah. They just kept on wagon training. And then it, it, it seemed like the town, there was… They kept naming this town, I don’t remember what it was named.

Not Pierogi, but that’s all I can come up with. Something like that. 

Todd: Pierogi, sure, prob- 

Craig: And, and it was like, it was Anesthesia or what was her name? What was that girl’s name? Oh, Apothecary. Tommy, Kimmy. Ap- Apothekimmy. Apoth- Apothecary. Whatever her name is. It was, it’s like it’s her hometown or whatever, and when they get there- 

Clip: Looks like a ghost town.

Things sure have changed since I left. Oh 

yeah? How long has that been? 

I don’t know. Must be 10 years now. 

We’re gonna have to find a place to hole up. 

You know, my uncle owns a bed and breakfast on the other side of town, and, uh, you guys have been really nice to me, and I’m sure he wouldn’t mind giving you a room.

That’d be great 

Craig: And, and they’re talking about how everybody’s staying inside ’cause they’re all scared, and then there’s some mention of how the Tall Man is harvesting everyone in the town. What? Why? What is happening? Is this a special town? Is Apothecary or whatever her name is, is she really from here?

Like, there were just so many story elements that didn’t go anywhere. Yeah. I, so I just didn’t understand really what was happening. Because ultimately none of those things really matter. It kind of just turns out ending the same way the first one did, with a showdown in a mortuary. Yeah. Where they seemingly win.

Todd: Right. 

Craig: I don’t, I don’t intend to, to jump to the end. There’s more to talk about, but- Yeah … it’s just kind of a big road to nowhere. 

Todd: It is, yeah. So like, once you’ve introduced… The joy of the first movie is all these weird elements, and it’s just a big mystery and you don’t know what’s happening. And even when more elements are introduced, it, they’re just more questions than anything.

All the way up to the end where it’s explaining that, “Oh, by the way, there are these two, like, giant tuning pins inside the mortuary that between them lead to this fan- this world that j- doesn’t look like much of a world, just a big ass wasteland.” 

Craig: Mars. Yeah, it 

Todd: looks- Yeah. Like, why would you need to sh- shrink people down to send them into this wasteland, you know?

Kind of weird. And then I think he kinda gets the better of the Tall Man by stopping the tuning forks, right? Doesn’t he put his hands on both of them, which somehow breaks something? 

Craig: I don’t remember that. 

Todd: That’s what kinda sets off their advantage. And that’s kind of juxtaposed nicely with Reggie himself as a guitar player.

He has his tuning fork he keeps bringing out. 

Clip: Oh, yeah. 

Todd: It, it all kind of seems to fold together into this interesting thing where you’re like, “There are layers here we’re just not understanding and, and are not being given to us.” But you know, there feels like there’s a weird David Lynch-esque type vision behind this that is just inaccessible to us, but I’m really enjoying this ride and it’s creepy as hell.

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: This movie just, like you said, it doesn’t provide any new information. All we get are these new elements, but sadly, not in a real creepy way, just a very practical way. Okay, these are the patrol balls. They’re not that mysterious anymore. They’re just like, like cyborg orbs that w- can even use their lasers to blast through doors and scan a room when they’re looking for somebody.

These little munchkin monsters You know, well, okay, so he’s shrinking them and sending them away, but also apparently they are also minions that he can keep here to help protect him and what he’s doing. And so they’re just goons. You know? They’re just goons that pop out every now and then. Uh, just when there needs to be some action in the movie, suddenly from around the corner, three or four of these things come and attack the person.

Okay. 

Clip: Yeah. 

Todd: And then the, it’s said specifically in the movie that they have been going from town to town, and that the Tall Man is leaving these traps for them along the way. 

Clip: Yeah. 

Todd: Okay. So like, what, they just miss him every single time? The, the Tall Man leaves a, a little vision behind to go like, “Fooled ya.

I’ll see you at the next town.” 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: You know, like You don’t know. What? Okay. But it just loses a lot of the m- mystery and horror. 

Craig: Well, and that was w- one of the traps… So he says that. He says sometimes he sets traps. And then they show us an old cemetery and, like, these dug up graves. So, like, evidence that he’s been there or whatever.

But we know that this is fake, I guess. And then they find a boarded-up church, and they use their chainsaw to get in there. And there, he f- there’s a naked- Mausoleum … corpse. That’s, that… Yeah, mausoleum. That’s when he first sees and- Elizabeth? But then later after that, after she finds… No, the other one.

Arcadia or- Oh, oh, right, right

Todd: I 

Craig: can’t remember what her name was. Arcadia. Gim- Gimmy. Apothecary. Yeah. Kim- a- alchemy. Alchemy. Yeah. 

Todd: Alchemy. Yeah, that’s right. Sorry. 

Craig: That’s when he first sees her. But then after he sees her, then he’s still looking around in there and he sees just, like, a huddled figure, like, under a, like a shroud or something.

And as he gets closer, it’s Liz, who he’s seen in his dreams before. And sh- I don’t remember exactly. Does she have… I think she has tape over her mouth? And he’s like, “Don’t worry, it’s okay. I’m gonna save you,” or, or something. And then he notices, I think, something, like, moving around under whatever she’s draped in.

Her back. 

Todd: Yeah, like under her… She’s in a cloak. 

Craig: Yeah. And so he, like, he pulls the cloak away and I swear to God, a miniature version of the Freddy snake from Nightmare on Elm Street 3- 

Todd: Yes … 

Craig: comes out and talks to him. Now I don’t remember the timing, but they look so much alike. 

Todd: Oh, it looks so similar. “

Craig: Come east if you dare.”

Like, why is this Tall Man taunting them? 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: Like, why? Why, why are either of them messing with one another? Now in the first one, if I remember correctly, all they were doing was stealing corpses. Is that really that big a deal? Like- True … is that really bothering you so much that it’s worth throwing your life away to go on this…

Like, just let them have their corpses. And like, sure- … I guess that the Tall Man killed their family. Like, s- I don’t even remember what happened to the older brother. I don’t remember if he died or… He comes back. This is the only movie he’s not in. But, uh, I don’t remember what happened to him. Something happened to him, and then in the beginning of this movie, the Tall Man kills Reggie’s entire family, like blows up the whole house.

Like, there’s a huge house explo- Right. But that’s only ’cause they were messing with him. Like Yeah. Leave the guy alone. Let him and his dinks collect their corpses and send them to Mars and everybody will be fine. Calm down. 

Todd: You’re kinda right about that. And, well, you know, in comparing it to The Evil Dead, the biggest, most jarring difference is that Bruce Campbell is a reluctant hero.

Craig: Right. 

Todd: You, you just get the distinct impression that he’s a badass. I mean, he’s fed up with things, but he doesn’t exactly go seeking out the Deadites. They’re just constantly menacing him. It’s just like one long story of him just trying to finally be rid of them. This is them actively going after this guy who, like you said, uh, might as well just be doing what he’s doing.

He’s not, like, causing an apocalypse. But then again, is he? Because if he comes to these towns and everybody’s afraid, and they’re boarding up and they can’t come out, he must be doing something else. 

Craig: Well, and he’s taking living people this time. I don’t remember if he… Well, not exclusively. He’s still taking dead people, but he takes the grandmother too.

See, I didn’t understand that whole part. I didn’t- Oh, I didn’t either … understand the grandfather kind of being a zombie for a little bit. And, like, he shows up in the grandmother’s bed, and then the next time we see the grandmother she’s a dink, and that was really a hilarious scene. Yeah. Liz has to fight her dinkified grandmother, and then she, like, knocks her out with a big vase, and, like, the dink goes flying across the room and she goes, “Sorry, Grandma,” and then just runs away.

That was so funny. I laughed 

Todd: out loud at that. 

Craig: Sorry, Grandma. Oh 

Todd: my God. So hilarious. 

Craig: Oh, God. It, it, it sounds, I’m sure, like we are really tearing this movie apart, and, and I think that that’s fair. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: It’s fine. It’s entirely watchable. I’m disappointed that Angus Scrimm isn’t in it as much. Like- He’s not.

Yeah … he just kinda, he just kinda pops in and out and doesn’t really have a lot to do. And I don’t get that. He’s the best part of the first movie. If anything, I would’ve thought that he would’ve gotten more screen time, but he just kinda pops in every once in a while to say something kind of menacing- 

Todd: Yeah

Craig: and then just go away. 

Todd: It really does beg the question if he’s really the catalyst. Like, you get the idea in the first movie that he’s the guy pulling all the strings. Like, he’s the god of… He’s in charge, you know? In this movie- I don’t know. There’s a lot of stuff moving around and happening without him.

Craig: Oh, yeah. 

Todd: I mean, maybe he’s behind the scenes where we can’t see, controlling it, or maybe his minions and, are just so effective that he doesn’t need to be there monitoring them the whole time, telling them what to do. But you just don’t get a sense that he’s an active presence in most of what’s happening.

So they’re hunting The Tall Man, but they rarely see The Tall Man. I mean, God, if I was The Tall Man, I’d just kinda stay out of their way. I mean, no need to pop in every now and then. You’re always one step ahead of them anyway, laying traps and whatnot. 

Craig: Yeah. I, I mean, he really doesn’t show up as a major threat until the final act, and then he’s not really around a lot then because after Mike and Liz have some sort of weird dream date where they talk to each other without moving their mouths, but like- Oh, that was so 

Todd: weird.

Craig: It’s the most, it’s the most chaste thing I’ve ever seen. Like, they’re lying in a bed together, fully clothed, on top of the blankets, and then they wake up and just… I guess they’re dreaming, so they can talk to each other without actually talking. But they don’t do anything. 

Todd: I thought they were just psychically communicating with each other like they had been over distance, except this time they were next to each other.

Clip: Lips aren’t moving We’re dreaming 

Todd: Wow. 

Clip: This is great

We’re different, Mike. That’s why he wants us, ’cause we’re the only ones who can see what he’s doing. I prayed so hard that you’d find me, and you did

Craig: I love you. I don’t know. After that, and after that weird sex scene with Kimmy and Reggie, then the Tall Man shows up and, and grabs Liz through the window. He’s a big fan of doing that. That’s like his MO. Yeah, 

Todd: that’s his MO. Yeah. 

Craig: Uh-huh. 

Todd: He d- I did get kinda tired of that, honestly. It, it was awesome the first time it happened, and then the second time- Yeah

you’re like, “Oh, okay.” And then the third time it’s like, “Uh, is this gonna be a thing?” ‘Cause now it’s lost its impact. 

Craig: Right. Yeah, and so then they have to go find her and, and Reggie tells Kimmy, he’s like, “You drive south.” And she’s like, “Will I ever see you again?” And he says, “I’ll find you if I’m able.” Okay.

Whatever. 

Todd: They really do just ditch her, don’t they? 

Craig: They do, and I didn’t think that we would see her again, but she does show up again. But- 

Todd: I thought she’d come in as like a, you know, big savior at the end of one of the s- one of the, you know, final battle or something like that. She’d kick open the door.

Craig: See, and I was still super suspicious of her, so I thought that she would show up and be like helping the tall guy or whatever, but she doesn’t show up until the very end. But there’s a big… They chase the hearse, and Mike flips the car, and there’s a big explosion, but somehow they still make it to the c- the mausoleum/crematorium.

There’s a scene, I, I loved that scene of Reggie and Mike standing in front of the like burning car and the fla- you know, they’re- Mm-hmm … lit by the flames. And they’re like, “Let’s go kick some ass.” Yeah. And they suit up in their makeshift suits, and they break… For reasons I, unknown, Mike sees an embalming station and is like, “I’m gonna put some hydrochloric acid in this embalming fluid.”

Oh, God. And he makes some comment. He’s like… I don’t even know, like what, what was his thought process? Like- Let’s see him try to, let’s see him try to- Embalm somebody with this … see what he does to that body or whatever. Like why? Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. And they find what Mike deduces is a keyhole, and he’s like, “We gotta catch a dink,” or something. They- Well, we gotta- They have to, they have- 

Todd: They catch the ba- the orb. 

Craig: Yeah. Well, they… Okay, right. They have to catch one of those orbs I guess. And they do. I mean, we already talked about the way that they get the sphere, we already talked about how it gets the, the mortuary guy.

And it, he, to, to escape the second one, he’s pinned, his hand is pinned to the wall by one. To escape the second one, he cuts his hand off. So after they dispatch him, they go back and they get the orb, and Mike, again, just deduces that the orbs, as long as they’re embedded in flesh, don’t move, I guess. 

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Okay. And so- If you say so … good, good 

Todd: thing of figuring that out, and they use it as a key. 

Craig: And they do use it as a key. Meanwhile, Reggie is having his hero fight with some huge guy in a gas mask who has just popped in every once in a while. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: I, I don’t know who he is. We have no idea who this guy is, 

Todd: why he’s wearing a gas mask.

Craig: Or why randomly, somewhere in the middle of the movie, he was pushing around a smoldering coffin. I don’t know what that was about. Mm. It was like it had burned, and it was still smoking, and he was p- uh, again, I don’t know. But there’s a huge chainsaw fight, and it’s funny ’cause Reggie has a little tiny chainsaw and the other guy has a great big huge chainsaw.

I really dug that. It’s very phallic and silly. That was funny. I thought it was funny. And it’s a whole action thing where at some point, like, Reggie, like, leapfrogs over the other guy and his chainsaw, and eventually he saws the guy’s cr- crotch. And then they all get together and they use the sphere to open the lock, and they find the tuning fork yet again.

Todd: Almost get sucked in. 

Craig: And, and, and then the Tall Man shows up. Yeah, they- And then- … almost get sucked in, ’cause I guess it’s sucky now. 

Todd: Right.

Craig: Oh. Yeah. And M- yeah, so and Mike and Reggie almost get sucked in there, and there’s, like, a slimy, big, like, c- crawling at them. Crawling towards them. But- 

Todd: Elizabeth shows up, and the Tall Man’s there … 

Craig: and he ties her to a thing, and he’s gonna embalm her with the acid, and he doesn’t even know it’s acid. But Mike, once he gets Reggie out of the tuning fork, I think, he somehow gets one of the spheres and launches it at the Tall Man, and it gets him right in the face.

And instead of blood coming out, it’s all this yellow gook that shoots out of him. Yeah. And, and then there’s a hole in his head from the sphere, and, like, a long, like, pincher- Like a claw? On, like, a tentacle Like a great lab, crab claw or something comes poking out. Yeah, like a long claw or something comes out.

I, I don’t remember… I do remember that in part four especially, they really get into the nature of who and what the Tall Man is. 

Todd: Okay. 

Craig: And I can’t imagine that you mind spoilers, and this is only to the best of my recollection anyway, but he, he used to be… Well, there was a man that looked like the Tall Man back in, I don’t know, the late 1800s or something, and I think he was a scientist.

And he built that tuning fork thing. I think he was trying to explore other dimensions, and he went through it, but when he came back out, he was different, and he was the Tall Man. Hmm. So there was an original guy that looked like that, but I think that whenever he went in there, he changed and became something else.

And if I remember correctly There’s not just one. Like- Oh. He’s kinda like that guy from The Matrix. 

Todd: Oh, like Agent Smith? 

Craig: Yeah, he’s kinda like Agent Smith from The Matrix. Like he- He cloned 

Todd: himself? 

Craig: He- well, he’s really more like an avatar. Like- Oh. You can kill one, but if you kill one, another one will just step right in.

Oh. Um, a- and I, and I think in, in four, at some point in time there’s like a… You see like a whole army of them or something. I don’t know. But we don’t know that at this point. At this point, all we know is he bleeds yellow gook and he’s got tentacle claws coming out and, but, uh… And, and they fight a little bit, but Mike, I think Mike, I don’t know, somebody ends up stabbing him with the huge embalming needle and flips the switch to pump the acid into him, and he kind of dissolves, I guess, from the inside.

He melts and his eyes explode. It’s all practical effects, and there are tons of practical effects in this movie- Yeah … and they look good. It’s great. Greg Nicotero was one of the guys. I don’t remember, uh, the other main guy who worked on it. It’s another p- But these are great practical effects, and I guess this took a long time, and Angus Scrimm had to be in the makeup chair for hours at a time to get the various stages of this decomposition.

But anyway, he melts away and, and they run out of the mortuary, and surprise, surprise, Kimi is there in a hearse to drive them away, and they drive away as the mortuary burns, and somebody literally goes, “Woo-hoo!”

Todd: Yeah. Oh 

Craig: my God. And you 

Todd: think it’s the end again? 

Craig: Yeah, but I, I mean, I think you anticipate that there’s… Because of the great kind of shocking Friday The 13th jump scare at the end of the first one, I anticipated there had to be something, especially since it had wrapped up so quickly. Like, as, as great as those practical effects of the Of, of the Tall Man melting away were.

It felt anticlimactic. It, it, it- Mm-hmm … it reminded me a lot of the end of Poltergeist III, which is a movie that I’ve mentioned to you lately that I would like to do. But the ending of that is somewhat similar for different reasons, interesting reasons. But it just felt anticlimactic. So I was expecting something else, and you get something else, but I don’t know.

Todd: I don’t know either. It just kinda resets everything in a way. Kimi, is that what we’re calling her? Alchemy? 

Craig: Yeah. Uh. 

Todd: Whatever. She’s driving, and Reggie’s n- next to her, and in the back is Mike and, and Elizabeth. And Reggie calls back to him to check the, the… ‘Cause they’re in the hearse, I guess, and he calls back- Mm-hmm

to check the coffin, and he says, “Oh, there’s nobody in the coffin, thank God.” And so then Kimi closes the… There’s, like, a rising and closing door. Like any hearse would have this. It’s like a limo, right? 

Craig: Yeah, 

Todd: right. Like, there’s a little door to separate the back from the front so that, to, I guess, to give the corpse some privacy when you need to.

And and they get their privacy, and Reggie reaches, you say, says something to Kimi. And Kimi reaches up to her hair or something and pulls a big chunk of hair out, and some of her flesh comes off, too. And, and this is when you’re like, “Okay, yeah, she is trouble, isn’t she?” And then in the backseat, the… So they’re screaming, and I think there’s flying all over the road.

And in the backseat, the two of them are back there and realize something’s wrong, and they’re looking at each other, and they’re like, “This is just a dream. We just need to realize it’s just a dream.” 

Craig: Well, the, the car, the car comes to a stop, and Reggie, all bloodied and battered- 

Todd: Oh, yeah … 

Craig: plasters, gets plastered up against the window in the back- Uh-huh

and, like, falls, like, falls to the ground. 

Todd: Falls to his… It looked, like, dead, right? Like- 

Craig: Yeah … you 

Todd: messed 

Craig: him up. And the hearse drives away. Yeah, the hearse drives away, and you see an aerial shot, and he’s just laying there in the road, presumably dead. Not, I mean, obviously he’s not, ’cause he comes back, but…

So the hearse is driving away, and that’s when, you know, the, it’s just a shot of them in the back of the f- hearse face-to-face, and he’s saying to her, “This isn’t real. It’s just a dream. It’s just a dream.” And she says, “It’s just a dr-” And then Then 

Todd: the Tall Man- The, the- … springs up in the window of the car and goes- Yeah

“No, it’s not.” And then reaches in like he always does s- through the window and pulls them out. 

Craig: Somebody does. Something pulls, yes. They get grabbed through the back window of the hearse and pulled out. 

Todd: That’s true. It’s not him, is it? ‘Cause it’s, they’re pulled out of the back window. How many times are people gonna be pulled out through a window?

Craig: I think more- I think so … as the series goes on. 

Todd: They’re gonna have to top the four times that happened in this movie. I mean, my God. Up the ante 

Craig: I’m pretty sure that part three, much like this one, picked up exactly where part one left off. I think that part three picks up exactly where this one leaves off.

Well, 

Todd: it had better, you know? I mean, come 

Craig: on. But I, but I also think that they have a tendency of just ignoring certain things that happen in different, like- Kind of retconning stuff … yeah. Like Gosh, I don’t remember specifically. But they- do they even mention… What, what is the brother’s name? Like Jordy or- From the first one?

Yeah. They barely mention him in this one at all, and then he becomes a main plot point and character again in the next one. So I think they kind of just pick up and- Interesting. I, I don’t remember if these two girls, Kimmy and, and Liz… ‘Cause I know they drop the whole psychic thing in the next movie. Huh.

So I don’t know if Liz is- Psychic Liz is still around in the next one. I don’t remember. But I would be interested in revisiting them a- and, and particularly Ravager. I don’t remember any of them well, but I do th- remember that Ravager was one of those deals where it cuts back and forth between different timelines.

And there- I think there are three timelines, but the ones that I remember specifically are in one of them it’s basically… Do you remember when they were going to make a sequel to Army of Darkness and it was gonna be Bruce Campbell waking up in, like, a post-apocalyptic world? Yep. 

Todd: Yep. 

Craig: That’s basically what one of the timelines is.

It’s Reggie in, like, this kind of post-apocalyptic landscape where there are these huge, you know, spheres that have destroyed entire cities and, and all that kind of thing. But one of the other timelines is it’s just him as an old man in, like, a convalescence home and, and Mike, again played by the original actor, is visiting him, telling him that all of those adventures that they had had are just in his mind.

Todd: Oh, boy. 

Craig: And, and I, and I don’t think that… I, I think in the end of the movie you, you know, you’re, you’re meant to question w- did any of this really happen or did- was it all just delusions in this elderly man’s- So I would be, I, I would be interested in going back and watching the other ones because even…

I feel like this is, like, kind of the commercial one, and because it didn’t do particularly well. It made back its budget barely in the United States, and then I think it made, like, 7 million internationally or something like that. So, you know, th- they didn’t lose money on it, but it wasn’t the hit that they were hoping that it would be, and that’s why the next two sequels were direct to video.

And then you said Ravager got a theatrical release, but I think it was really limited. I don’t think it played many theaters. Hmm. So I think because this was the only one that was studio-backed, they were able to go back to more of their kind of creative, weird, do-whatever-we-want kind of vibe. 

Todd: I see. 

Craig: And I would be interested in revisiting those.

And, and maybe for the show, maybe not. This, this piqued my interest in those again. 

Todd: Yeah, I would like to. I mean, I think at some point we should probably just finish out the series. I’m, I’m, I’m interested. Although As I kind of remember from, again, when I saw this as a kid, I, I’m, I’m still a little disappointed.

Honestly, I guess it’s more of a sci-fi thing, isn’t it? And that’s fine. Obviously Don Coscarelli can take this story wherever he wants, and the original also has these strong sci-fi elements to it. By the end, you realize that it’s It’s definitely got sci-fi in it. But I feel like this movie just, it just wasn’t scary.

Craig: It wasn’t 

Todd: really. It was just kind of a big adventure thing. You know, it’s fine. 

Craig: It was still fun. I mean- Yeah, it was still fun … it, honest to God, I’m, I, I, I would say this whether we were doing it as a tribute episode or not. Reggie Bannister is having a lot of fun, and I think the guy that played Mike is having a lot of fun, too.

A- and to be very fair, you know, I’m glad that they brought the original guy back. I think that that was the smart choice. I, I think this guy legitimately is a better actor, and that’s not to say that I think that he’s an amazing actor, but I think that he’s better than the other guy. 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: But I get wanting continuity.

I get being of a fan of a movie and, you know, wanting the original people back. I totally understand that. But it’s, it’s still fun. It- I, I still f- found this movie fun to watch. Is it a great movie? No. But there’s, there’s enough w- with Reggie Bannister and, I mean, even just Angus Scrimm, even though you don’t get to see him that often, he’s great.

Yeah. I, I don’t wanna make it sound like it’s terrible ’cause I don’t think it’s terrible. I don’t think it’s as good as the first one, but sequels rarely are. But at the same time, I, I don’t think that you should just disregard it. I don’t, I… Especially if you liked the first one and have any interest in seeing how it continues.

I think it’s, I think it’s worth it. 

Todd: Yeah. I don’t think it’s bad. And I have to say, I remember from the first movie not being particularly impressed with Reggie Bannister’s acting. 

Clip: Hm. 

Todd: In this film- Totally fair … s- something’s happened between the two. I think he’s great. I think he feels comfortable in his skin.

I feel like he has a good, solid take on his character. I b- I thought he was very believable in what he did, and I thought he was charming to watch on the screen. Like- Yeah … legitimately charming. More than anyone else in this movie. Well, you know, except for maybe the Tall Man, but again, we don’t see much of him.

Craig: He’s got kind of a Clint Howard vibe kind of, I would say, in that- Yeah … he’s, he’s, he’s likable and kind of easy to root for. Because I see myself in an actor like him far more than I see myself in, you know, a big Hollywood… A- and I think that’s, that’s appealing- Hm … to me and probably to others, too. But, but you’re right.

I don’t know. His, his acting is a little hammy, but I think that’s appropriate. And, and like you said, charming. I, I really liked him, too. 

Todd: Well, RIP Reggie Bannister. You will be missed, and, uh, we are looking forward to exploring some more of your oeuvre as we continue. Guys, thank you so much for listening to this episode.

If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. Find us at chainsawhorror.com. Leave us a voice message there by clicking Talk To Us, and we would love to hear you give us a request or d- say whatever’s on your mind to. Go and write a review for us on one of those podcast review platforms. We would love to see your positive reviews up there.

And, uh, also head on over to patreon.com/chainsawpodcast. See what we have to offer back there for only five bucks a month. We do our complete unedited phone calls just the minute we finish them, uh, for our patrons so that they can get a sneak preview of the episode in its complete and unfiltered glory before it ever goes out each week.

We have mini-sos up there. We have a book club that’s ongoing and quite fun, and lots of, uh, fun, interesting discussion behind the scenes that could all be yours for just five bucks a month. We appreciate your support, and we certainly love our patrons, as well as all of our listeners. Until next time, I’m Todd.

Clip: And I’m Craig. 

Todd: With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.