Together (2025)

Episode 475, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd. 

Craig: And I’m Craig. 

Todd: This week we’re diving into something that, uh, just came out last year. This is the 2025 movie, Together, starring real-life couple, Dave Franco and Alice and Brie, the writing directing debut of Michael Shanks, and what an impressive one It is.

I had not seen this movie before, but I had heard a lot about it. I think it has made a bit of a splash out and about. It certainly has good ratings everywhere you go. It seems to have been almost universally well received. But yeah, this was my first time watching it. How about you, Craig? You’re the one who recommended this, so I see.

I assume you’d seen it before. 

Craig: Well, actually it was our good friend Heather, who recommended it to both of us. Anytime that she sees something she enjoys, she we’re in a group chat. She always texts us, not necessarily suggesting that we do the movie for the show, just because she knows that we like this stuff and she wants to share things with us.

I had heard of it because I am a fan. Both Alison Bree and Dave Franco. So I was aware that it was happening. I didn’t really know a whole lot about it, but I thought that it was cool that they were married. You know, I have mixed feelings about that sometimes, like, I’m like, oh, great, it’s like a vanity project, you know?

Like they’re working together. But 

Todd: right, 

Craig: in this movie, I felt like it really worked. I, and I’m sure that we’ll pro, I’ll probably talk about that at length, but my point is I was a fan of both of them already. I hadn’t realized that it had been released for streaming. I think that’s only been recently.

And Heather recommended it, and I watched it and I texted you and I was like, she was right. You know, I described this one as, I think good special effects, but also thoughtful, and that was the choice. That you made and I, it sounds based on first impression that you thought it was alright. 

Todd: Wow. What a cautious take on my opinion you have.

I liked it a lot. I really did. In fact, I was lucky enough to be able to watch it with a, some friends of mine are actually staying in my apartment in Beijing and I said, I’m watching a movie for the podcast. And they’re like, oh cool. What is it? And they said, I said it was together. And they said, oh yeah, we’ve seen that.

We really liked it. We’d love to watch it again with you. And this does seem to be like the kind of movie that could spur a lot of discussion, particularly amongst couples if you really wanted to dive into what it’s trying to do. So it’s really great fodder for chatting about, I think of the podcast and I could talk about Alison Bree all day long.

I’m madly in love with her. I used to watch Mad Men when it was out, and I thought she was a fantastic character in that show. And I was very disappointed to find out later. While I was watching Glow, which was another really great series that just got, 

Craig: it really was 

Todd: not picked up again, you know, to not able to continue on Netflix.

That that, I think Glow is when I pretty much decided I’m done with Netflix. Like I canceled my subscription when they didn’t continue that series ’cause it was so good. I wanted to see more of Alison Bree and I was so disappointed when I looked her up around that time and found out that she was married already.

Craig: Yeah. She and Dave Franco. The first time that I was exposed to him was either in the movie Neighbors, the Seth Brogan movie neighbors, or. A movie where he played another guy just like that. Like that’s kind of how he started out, like playing these jackass sidekick kind of roles. 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: And I get that it’s a major stereotype, but like, I’m not really impressed by that.

But having kind of watched his career move forward, I actually think that he’s really talented. And the thing that I like about these two, and I’m a big fan of hers too, I loved Glow. It, it sucks not only that it wasn’t picked up, but that they had been assured that it would be so they didn’t tie up their storylines.

Todd: Yeah. They were done dirty on that. 

Craig: Everything was left open. Yeah. Yeah. And it was, and it really was a very good show, if you haven’t seen it. It was funny, but it was smart and ugh, it was really, really good. It was retro, uh, and and fun. Yeah. Retro and fun to, it was fun to watch. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, women’s professional wrestling with the big hair and the leotards.

What’s, what’s not fun about that? Exactly. And of course they’re, you know, they were all playing parts and they were big over the top parts for tv. It was great. I loved it. I, I didn’t watch. The real glow. When I was a kid, I watched some wwf. Yeah. Like Hulk Hogan. 

Todd: I can imagine you were a little more, a little more drawn to that.

Craig: Well, I didn’t even know that I was really aware of, of glow. 

Todd: Yeah. It was small. I mean it, it tried to make a big splash for a little bit, but I mean, especially us kids. When I was that age when I was really into professional wrestling and I was as was probably most kids around that era of the eighties, it was huge, right?

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: Yeah. I think we were just all like, yeah, wrestling’s for guys. That’s it. 

Craig: Well, and it’s violence and I don’t know, but the, those ladies made it theatrical and fun. It was fun to watch. 

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: Not that the guys didn’t too, I mean, they were acting too. But anyway, the whole point is I like both of them and they both seem like really cool down to earth people.

I don’t know if you’ve ever seen them in interviews or I, I don’t know where else you would see them, where they’re not acting, where they’re just being themselves. They seem fun. They seem like they have a really good time together. They seem very much in love. They’re very supportive of one another and of one another’s careers.

And I think that that comes through in this movie, not. Necessarily in their performance because they’re portraying a very real couple, which is what one of the things that I love about this movie. I mean, I feel like we’re gonna deep dive into how this movie is really, it’s a body horror, but it’s really just a big metaphor for relationships.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Specifically marriage. But they, they’re a real couple. They love each other, but they’re not perfect and things aren’t perfect. And I think that real couples know how to play that because they’ve lived it. I mean, yeah. I mean, that’s my lived experience. I don’t know about everybody. I, I am in a very happy, very long-term relationship that I hope to be in for the rest of my life, but it’s not all peaches and cream all the time and.

There have been periods of time where we’ve struggled. These two characters are at a crossroads where they’re grownups now, and, uh, she has a real job. He’s kind of clinging to his glory days as a musician, but he’s not really working. I mean, he’s writing, but he’s not recording or performing, and she’s ready to move on and be a grownup and get married and I don’t know, they don’t really talk about starting a family, but she’s got a, a good job and a, a beautiful rural area and he talks sometimes about feeling trapped.

And she talks sometimes like he’s a big man child, that she kind of feels that she has to take care of, that he’s helpless without her. And you feel that way sometimes, you know, like it’s not, 

Todd: yeah. 

Craig: You know, there are tides in relationships and, and I think that two people who have been married for as long as they have, they were married in 2017.

I don’t know how long they were together before that. I’m sure that in some way, I mean there relationship is still relatively young, but they’ve been together long enough that I’m sure there’s been ebb and flow in their relationships and that just came across. I felt the intimacy between them so strongly and I was really impressed by that.

Todd: Yeah, I’m really impressed with movies that jump in and are actually going to be honest about adult relationships and not real cinematic necessarily. I, I think this is one of those movies that really is honest about what it takes to be a couple and the struggles that you go through and what happens when life happens to you.

I’m not gonna get too personal, but you know, I was married for 17 years and, you know, we, we certainly could relate. I think if I had watched this with big, I think we could have related to a lot of what this couple was feeling and going through. You know, there’s also this idea that you can never fully know what your partner.

Is going through and feeling and thinking, you know, no matter how long you’re together, no matter how much you think you know each other, there’s always a question is what’s on their mind. You know, what, how did they interpret this event? Are they feeling the same way I am? And the longer your relationship goes, the more you just more or less, I think assume, you know, you, you see patterns and you just kind of get into a state where if you’re open enough with each other that you’re comfortable with each other and you, there’s this al there’s this unspoken or you know, spoken rule that if things change, if our feelings change, then we’re gonna open up about that.

You know, we’re gonna talk about it and we’re gonna share that. And never take that for granted. And I think what you’re seeing in this movie is a state where there is a couple at one of those crossroads where, you know, they seem to have been comfortable for a while and together, but relationships just, they really do require constant vigilance, you know?

Yeah. And there’s this idea, I think, kind of the overall metaphor of the movie is, wouldn’t it be easier. If we could just get under the other person’s skin, you know, if we could just inhabit them. If you could have, I’ve always thought of it myself, not as being inside them, but just being like, like having like a, a cable directly connected from their brain to mine so I could just look into it and wouldn’t things be so much easier.

We could solve all of our problems and we could become one, which is really what we’re looking for. It’s our goal, but it’s never truly achievable. And there is a sense of, um, fantasy about this movie that even though this idea that you could, and I mean I’m spoiling a little bit of it, but even though this idea that you could meld together into one person, that would kind of be the perfect relationship, wouldn’t it?

Relationship, wouldn’t we all kind of want that in a way? 

Craig: No. See, and I think that that’s. The question that the movie begs you look at the, the cover art or the poster art and, and you see what the movie’s about. So the cold open is these, a search party looking for a couple that’s gone missing and these two dogs that are part of the search party find this cave and they drink water out of this cave and then their owner locks ’em up in the cage and they’re acting weird and they’re staring at each other.

And then he hears a commotion When he comes out, they’re like, we only get a flash mix. They don’t wanna give away too much, but they’re like a monstrous, the thing kind of thing. Like they’re kind of fused together so the movie doesn’t hide what’s going to happen. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: But I think that the question that begs is, would that be ideal?

And I’ve been thinking about it ’cause I’ve watched it twice now, and I really do think watching it a second time made a big difference for me. I picked up on things that I hadn’t picked up on before. 

Todd: Oh, I could see that. Yeah. 

Craig: Even reading the trivia, there were things that I hadn’t picked up on and I was like, oh, that makes a lot of sense to me.

But I’ve been thinking about it now. Ultimately, gosh, I don’t know how much we wanna spoil. There’s a faction, I’ll just say that, of people who think that this type of melding together is an enlightened and enhanced form of existence. I don’t think so. I don’t, I would not want that kind of direct connection.

I don’t want Alan to know every thought that crosses my mind, and, and I don’t wanna know every thought that crosses his mind. 

Todd: Yeah. But, but then now, now by the way, I feel the same way you do. I’m very individual. I like my space, I like my privacy. And even with my partner and I’m, and I’m very open with my partners and I share everything with them.

I feel like I’m an open book. Yet still, of course, I don’t share everything, right? We do have a filter, right? We do know what, but that’s because we’re afraid. There are things that we’re afraid that if we were to share it. And rightly so in in many cases. I mean, the better you know your partner, the more you understand this, that that will change things that they will misinterpret that or that they will take, you know, for example, very, very surface idea.

I see some girl walking by and say, oh, she’s cute. I wouldn’t say that on my first date with someone, but I would’ve said that to Bick knowing that she knows I’m not lusting after that girl who just walked by. Sure. I’m just making a comment. You know? But another person would get offended by that. Like, why are you, why are you even pointing out that that woman’s cute?

Like, what’s going through your mind? Is that how you go through your day? Just walking around thinking about how good women look? You know, what does that say about me and how do you feel about me? And then they go down these spirals. Right? Right. You know, I mean, if you could have somebody just know the intent behind everything you did, if you in in essence, really shared one mind in that way, you wouldn’t ever have those barriers.

And think about how much easier you could go through your life and your relationship, not having to filter things and not having to repair when things slipped through that filter. You know what I mean? Yeah. Accidentally or whatever. Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. And I think, you know, it depends on how deep you wanna take the metaphor, but I guess what I’m understanding that you’re suggesting is that if you had that fuller understanding, then there would be less.

Likelihood of there being conflict because you would understand where the other person was coming from and they would understand where you were coming from. And if you really loved one another, you could understand that and maybe live in some kind of harmony. That’s fine. I can accept that premise, but I think really mean things about Alan.

Sometimes when I’m mad and I don’t say them out loud because one, they’re really mean and I don’t wanna hurt his feelings. And two, I know I’m only feeling that way because I am angry. And in that moment I think that I’m right. But who knows if 20 minutes from now, an hour from now tomorrow, I’ll even feel the same way.

And I wouldn’t want him to be privy to that. I do get it, but I also feel like to me, it is representative of the way that marriage is presented to people. Especially in a religious context, a ceremonial context. Ah, the two become one. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Like you are entering into, if you’re religious, a sacred bond, even legally, you know, you are becoming legally a couple and you’re legally bound to one another.

It sounds great. It sounds really romantic and sweet and lovely, but 

Todd: it’s tough. 

Craig: What does that really mean and how does it really work out? 

Todd: You’re right, and I think that’s, that’s the ultimate. Tension really be between being a couple, you know, how do you maintain your individuality while still being devoted and being this quote unquote one person?

The advantages of pairing up and of going through life together are numerous, but to some people. The idea that I am beholden to another person in certain degrees or certain ways, they feel that they lose their individuality. 

Craig: Yes. 

Todd: You have to be able to hold two truths together. Right? I can be interdependent, codependent on another person while also maintaining our own individualities.

Craig: Right? 

Todd: For some people that, it’s hard for them to imagine that, and for others it, it comes very naturally. But for most of us, because we’re all different, it’s something that we have to navigate and work out very, very carefully if we’re going to be in a long-term commitment with, with, with another person.

Craig: Right. 

Todd: And that changes too, because we change over time. We’ll talk about the movie, but this all relates, you know, I’m certified or whatever, you know, to do marriage. I’m, I’m a minister of the United Universal Church or whatever like that. I paid my 20 bucks online and I got my card. And so I can do marriages basically.

And I’ve done a few weddings and the first wedding I did was really on the heels of a really difficult time in my wife and my life. That was just really on the edge of, of, of our eventual separation. And what was really going through my mind at that time is that in the beginning, you know, when you’re together, it’s very new and it’s very exciting things then kind of develop in a routine, but you meet each other at a certain place.

Mm-hmm. You meet each other at a certain place in time and in your own experiences and you’re coming together and you make it work life. Throws life at you. And different people take life in different ways. So when you’re bound to another person, you’re eventually going to move in different directions.

I’m gonna be interested in this thing. She’s gonna be interested in that thing. And the challenge of staying together through the years is how do you move together through that? Mm-hmm. She, how do you stay on the same paths when that path is winding? It’s very, very tempting to just, uh, see a fork in the road and just take your different directions.

Mm-hmm. You know, but that pulls you apart. How do you navigate a life where two people can be individual and autonomous and feel happy and make their own decisions? And the, the answer to that is. Ultimately sacrifice. 

Craig: Yes. And compromise. 

Todd: Right. And compromise. Yep. You adult relationships are nothing but a series of trade-offs.

Craig: Yes. 

Todd: And you have to make peace with that, and you have to be willing to do that. And that means you have to be willing to give a little bit of yourself up from time to time. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: Knowing that you’re not losing yourself and trusting in your partner that you’re not gonna lose yourself. So, 

Craig: yeah. And it’s just not for everybody.

You know, again, romantic relationships between two individuals. That’s what was modeled for us in our personal lives and in, in media and, and for a very long time that meant one man and one woman, and, and if they were really in love, they got married. Of course, we know in real life that 50% or more of marriages end in divorce.

I don’t think that it’s realistic for some people. I don’t think that it’s, I just don’t think that it’s right for some people. I think that it’s right for me, but I think that people also can live very full enriching lives. Either without romance at all or with many loves throughout their life. And the first time I watched it, I didn’t even really think about it so much.

Like I was impressed with them working as a couple and going through their things, but watching it a second time, I think I just put it kind of in a broader context and, and thought outside of their literal story of what’s happening to them. What is this movie trying to say? 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: It’s not in any way preachy.

I don’t think that it’s trying to endorse any one particular way of life or, or anything like that. 

Todd: I agree with you. 

Craig: That’s why I described it as thoughtful, because it, it, it just made me think, and I’ve been thinking about it for several days now. 

Todd: Well, I think it just presents a reality and I mean, maybe I, I would like to talk about this movie in the sense of, let’s talk first about their relationship at the beginning and what the problem is.

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: Like you said, she sees them as kind of this, I, I think, you know, he, he, he comes across as a big manchild to her. Yeah. She’s got this, uh, these goals and these, these things, and so they’re at an impasse even though they clearly love each other and they’re trying to make it work. I don’t think it, it even comes across as some dire thing that’s going to tear them apart necessarily.

You know, they’re not at that point when we meet them and they’re doing the thing that we often do, and the thing that often helps with this kind of thing is there. Branching onto an, into an entirely new experience for both of them. They’re moving, they move into a, a brand new house, and that is very typical for relationships, way to, uh, reset things a little bit.

When you are going through these kind of tr it gives you kind of a common problem to navigate. You’re in a, a new neutral environment where neither of you are familiar with things and neither of you have your, necessarily your friends nearby or your family nearby to run and, and go to, to confide in when things are wrong.

You know, you’re, you’re just trying to kind of navigate a new place together. And I’m, I’m very familiar with this. You know, they move into the new house and there’s, there’s some excitement about it, about exploring the new house. He notices something really strange. At one point, he’s notices a smell and it seems like she doesn’t, which I thought was interesting.

And he looks up at the light and he goes upstairs and he does this thing That really confused me because I just found this very improbable that this guy would smell something and go upstairs and the guest, the smells getting stronger and he looks up at the, the light above him, and then he unhooks the light from the ceiling, at least the cover, you know, around the top of it.

And he pulls down the source of the smell, which is this mass of rats, where their tails are just completely intertwined together and, and one would think that it, they’re dead, but actually one of them kind of wakes up as he drops it to the floor so it’s even alive. So that’s clearly the source of the smell.

And it seems like they’re connecting that to something that happened when he was a kid. Am I right about that? 

Craig: Yeah. He tells a story later. I wanna come back to what you’re talking about. In a second. But yeah, he tells a story later about how when he was a little kid, his dad complained about a smell and his, Tim, their, their names are Tim and Millie complained about a smell in Tim’s room and Tim didn’t smell anything, but the dad said, clean your room.

And so he did. He cleaned his room, but the smell was still there. He said, you know, clean it better. And he did. And the smell was still there, but he didn’t smell it. And then eventually his dad was very self satisfied when he found a nest of rats like that in the lamp. Tim says something like, they nested up there ’cause it was warm, but every time I turned the light on I was cooking them.

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: it was a traumatic thing for him. And I, I’m sure that there’s more context for this because there’s a lot of context of, you know, their togetherness or being a part, whatever. But he kind of compares this to, I believe that he found his parents in a state that his father had died and had been dead.

For so long that he was largely decomposed in the bed, but the mother couldn’t bear the thought of not being with him. And so she had lost her mind and had just continued to sleep in the bed with him. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And he found that, and, and he talked about, he connected it to the smell. He said it was the most horrible smell.

And again, it goes along with that theme of, you know, the good stuff about connection and the bad stuff about connection. If you really are that connected that you cannot even carry on. Without the other one. How great is that? I, I do wanna go back to what you said though, because you were saying sometimes this is what people need.

And I agree with that. I think a change of scenery, I think a new start is really great for some people. I think that the problem here is that he doesn’t have anything. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: You know, they, they buy this beautiful home. I, I don’t know how they afford this gorgeous home in the country. 

Todd: That’s always a movie magic.

Right. 

Craig: He doesn’t, he doesn’t even have a job and she’s a school teacher. Right. Come on. Uh, 

Todd: there must have some inheritance somewhere. 

Craig: It’s a beautiful, I mean, it’s just a, it’s idyllic. You know? I wanna move into that house in the country and teach in a little rural school. I mean, it’s, it’s lovely. And so she has all of that and she’s, you know, kind of excited about making the home, but he has nothing there.

He doesn’t have a job there. He doesn’t have friends there. So he doesn’t even really have much opportunity for making friends. He doesn’t have any purpose and. He’s virtually helpless. The movie beats you over the head with the fact that he’s virtually helpless. Yeah. Like he can’t even drive. And I understand, you know, you grow up in New York City, a lot of people don’t drive.

A lot of people don’t have cars. I get it. But come on. If you don’t live in New York City anymore, go take your driver’s test like every other 16-year-old and get a driver’s license, like Right. And he just seems very reliant on her. But I, I feel for him too, because we talked about how relationships require compromise and sacrifice, but he’s the one sacrificing, I don’t see what she is sacrificing.

It seems that they are following her plan. They’re following her dream and, and the best he can do is kind of try to play in a band with her brother and maybe go back and forth between there and the city. But that’s, you know, a cause attention in their relationship because she can’t drive him. ’cause she has to work and she has to drop him off at the train station and.

This is all established over like the first half hour of, of the movie. We also see that they’re in a, a dry spell in terms of intimacy, like they haven’t been physically intimate with each other in a while, and that’s weighing on her. They even talk about, should we split up now there’s a big going away party for them or something, and she proposes to him in front of everybody, which I hate when people do that, so, oh, 

Todd: stupid.

Yeah. 

Craig: Stupid and awkward. She’s embarrassed. They’re both embarrassed because he is so shocked that he doesn’t know how to respond immediately. And then that’s awkward. And of course everybody’s staring at them and of then he is like, oh, of course. Yes, yes. But it’s still very awkward. And then we see them in bed together and he’s very self-deprecating about how stupid he is.

And he always screws everything up, which I hate to hear that too. But they talk about whether or not they should split. And he says, well, it’s a little late now, don’t you think? And she says, yeah, I do think it’s a little late now. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And that I was like, oh boy, you are not married yet. If it is, if you are both willing to say, it’s a little late now, isn’t it?

You might not be in this for the right reasons. 

Todd: Exactly. Yeah. God, there is so much to talk about here too. I think that something that my friend Matt kind of mentioned to me that struck him about the movie was this sort of traditional role reversal that he found interesting about it in that, in the movies, usually it’s the woman who sort of portrayed as the, the Amos or Helpless one or the Housewife or something like that.

And in this case it it’s, it’s flipped. And the guy is, and even at times, you know, she feel, it seems like she’s gaslighting him a little bit. There’s a line note, she says something along the lines of, you gave me so much blue balls that it’s your fault that we had sex. Am my, oh, they have sex in her, in her school.

That’s a moment we’ll talk about later. So let’s get back to that later. Yeah. But I wanna say that I think that this movie. Certainly pulls from some more modern conversations that are taking place that I don’t know you’re aware of or not. Craig, I wasn’t aware of this at all, but a number of my female friends who are younger, like in their twenties and thirties that I’ve been chatting with, have this similar complaint about men that they feel that men these days that they’re dating are emotionally immature and they’re very needy and that we, you know, the first time they meet them, they just trauma dump on them and that they’re, they feel like they’re, they can’t take care of themselves, but they want this intimacy and they want to project, you know, that they’re, they’re all together but they’re really falling apart inside and they just kind of leave all this onto the women that they date.

And the women are just like exhausted and frustrated and, and feel like they’re carrying the emotional weight. In these relationships. Have you heard of this? This is apparently really big now, big conversation that’s happening. 

Craig: Yeah. And I, I’ve also heard recently that, I don’t wanna say power dynamics, that’s not exactly true, but a larger percentage of married women are the primary breadwinners in their relationships.

Heterosexual, married women. And again, I can’t cite a source. So it’s something that I heard, and it’s not a huge split. I think it’s still 50 something, 40 something, but. More women are the primary breadwinners in their families. And you know, I’m, I’m glad, I’m glad to see it moving away from what we always see.

But to be really honest with you, this doesn’t, this doesn’t seem foreign to me at all. Like, 

Todd: oh yeah, 

Craig: I think women are smarter than men. 

Todd: Oh yeah, me too. A hundred percent. And women have. 

Craig: And, and more responsible and nurturing and women get shit done. Amazing. 

Todd: I mean, as a gen, as an overall group, you know, we’re gonna be generalizing a lot here.

You know, obviously I’ve known individual women who are completely helpless and don’t know how to manage their emotions. 

Craig: Of course. 

Todd: And the same thing with men. I’ve known men who are very strong, but, but you know, I think the general. That’s happening right now. And the thing that people are courts sort of saying is that, you know, for years men have been this, you know, stoic and have not shared their feelings.

And then, and women find that frustrating because they feel like they’re not opening up and they can’t talk to them because women, again, generally speaking and traditionally are better at managing feelings and emotions. And, you know, sometimes to my own frustration, you know, that Sure, yeah. The, the extreme end of that is, you know, gossipy and emotional all the time and you know, all this stuff.

But like, 

Craig: sure, 

Todd: but then now men have been told, no, you need to open up, you need to share more, you need to be more vulnerable. And so men are responding to that, but they’re kind of the, again, pendulum swinging in the opposite direction. They’re doing this, but they don’t really have the, they haven’t really been taught how to regulate themselves.

And so they’re kind of dumping that on their partner. It just becomes a. A, a case of, well, this is how I am and this is who I, how I feel, but none of the, this is what I’m doing about it and this is how I’m working on myself. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: I don’t know how to do that, and I just sort of expect you to, to hold that burden for me, and that women find that a burden and frustrating.

Craig: Well, and I think that that’s regardless of gender, 

Todd: a hundred percent, 

Craig: there are dynamics in relationships and, and again, that’s another part of finding balance. You know, you wanna find, you hope to find a partner that will balance you. But I, I, I feel like really Tim is the one with the biggest character arc here, because though he does, I think, resent the feeling of being trapped, I don’t think that he so much resents her.

I think that he has a, a, a terrible sense of inferiority and yeah, a, a lack of confidence and, and pride that is. His issue, you know that that’s, that’s not her. She’s trying hope. 

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: she’s really trying. And that’s not to say that he’s not, but I, I think that his inferiority and, and his reluctance to commit, she’s prepared to commit.

She’s ready to take that next step. He’s reluctant, which is fine and I understand that. And I think it’s a decision that you should consider very carefully, but initially they really don’t seem to be in the same place. And the fact that they’re questioning whether or not they should even be together initially made me question the strength of their relationship.

But again, I’ll go back to what I said before, relationships ebb and flow. And ultimately, I guess that’s why they say through good times and bad in, in marriage vows. I guess that’s why you take a, a vow because you’re acknowledging that there are going to be bad times. Are you willing to work through that?

Do you promise You will. And again, the institution of marriage. Whatever. Alan and I aren’t married. We won’t get married. I don’t know if I, I tell my friends this all the time. I don’t know if I’ve ever said it publicly on the show. The big reason that we’re not married is because when we were young and wanted to get married, we were told that we couldn’t, that that was not for us.

Todd: Right. Right. 

Craig: And we heard that for so long. We were like, fuck you, then we don’t want it, and we don’t need it. You know, we’ve got our thing and we’ll just do our thing. And so then even when it became available to us, we just have a bad taste in her mouth about it. I’m, I’m so happy for my queer friends who have been able to celebrate their love in the way that they want to and make that kind of commitment.

Alan and I have our own understanding. We don’t need. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: So, you know, and I’m also not suggesting that people who get married who make that vow should keep it. Yeah. I, you know, there are. I think oftentimes when people feel, it’s not that people just, there are of course some couples that just are like, ah, whatever, and that’s fine too.

Who am I to judge? But often, and I think it’s often the case that people do try, it’s not like they don’t try just, sometimes things don’t work out. And like you said before, people change. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And, and sometimes I think separating is better. It’s healthier for everybody involved. So I’m not advocating for one particular lifestyle choice, but I liked watching their journey and I liked seeing them come together through a very trying and confusing and scary experience.

Because I think that those kinds of things are where your relationship is tested and where it will either succeed. Fail. 

Todd: Yeah, I mean, uh, you’re right. And I think the point you’re kind of trying to make here is this really isn’t about marriage, this is about relationships. This is about right, whether you’re married or not.

Everything still kind of applies the same whether you’re in a long, if you just want to be in a long-term relationship with somebody, marriage is like a, I don’t know, it’s like an outward expression sort of thing. It’s a vow. I think for some people it’s an additional pressure that helps to hold them together because it forces them to come to the table without an easy out.

I just came off of a relationship where, you know, where I feel like there was a lot of potential to just come to the table and, you know, sort of our first big test of what do we do when things get uncomfortable, what do we do when things get difficult? And whereas I am very well practiced, I think at.

Coming together and sorting out problems before, you know, making a judgment on them. I think my partner, her first instinct was just to run, you know, there’s an issue, let me get me out of this. And sometimes that’s the right move. Mm-hmm. You know, sometimes, uh, you can just recognize something early and, and you need to realize this isn’t for me.

And I, you know, my case, I kind of think it could have been handled better, but, uh, in any case, sometimes it’s just. What we do. It’s a challenge. It is, uh, the moment where we come together and we say, why are we together? Are, do we still want to be together? What is this doing for both of us and this situation that we’re dealing with now, how do we navigate it so that we stay together?

Because ultimately we want to stay together and adult relationships. This, this is just a, I wish I could say that it, you know, it, it didn’t have it, it doesn’t always happen often for a lot of people. You know, sometimes people are just really in sync or they just, they’re just very good. I think about not encountering these things too often.

And I think the reason for that is, is not that their lives are particularly easy or that things are just not thrown at them at the same way they’re thrown at other couples. I just think they’re really good, even unconsciously. At handling these things before they get to that point. Extreme communication when you’re going through life changes, early recognition of, I’m feeling something that’s a little off, or I’m feeling whatever.

And having the courage to come out with it and having the trust in your partner that they’re going, not going to accept that as a threat, but they’re gonna accept that as a, as something to talk through and work through. 

Craig: Yeah. For me, and again, Alan and I have been together for almost 30 years. We have been together for longer in our lives than we haven’t, and we got together when we were very, very young, which I would not recommend.

Yeah, you should. I think that you should explore. It just so happened to work out for us, and it hasn’t been easy, but when you’ve been with somebody that long and, and you know somebody that, well, he and I, you know, it’s, it’s like trial by fire. You know, we, we have been through major life events together.

He’s lost both of his parents. We’ve lost. Pets together, which is a, a huge deal for us. We’ve literally seen each other in sickness and health. We’ve seen each other at our worst. We’ve, I said, we’ve seen each other in sickness and in health. Like we’ve cleaned each other’s bodily fluids up when we’ve been sick.

You know, like, yeah, right. The most, the most intimate things that you can imagine. And there have been hard times, but I think the time that really sealed it for me was COVID when we were stuck together in the same house for two years and really weren’t around other people at all. And both of us, you know, we talked pretty openly about the, our thoughts and feelings and fears and those types of things.

We were concerned because we both enjoy our alone time, and we both enjoy our separate things, but the longer it went on. The easier it was, we would constantly say to each other, I couldn’t have done this with anybody but you. I love my parents. I love my sister. I love you. I, I, I love my friends, but I couldn’t have been in that close proximity with anybody else but him.

And that really kind of cemented something for me. I feel like we’re like doing a different talk show. 

Todd: Yeah. We’re, we’re really, this is not, this is not the horror movie review that ev God, if, if this is our first episode that you’re tuning into. 

Craig: It’s not always like this. Yeah. But that’s what I, I actually like this because I feel like that’s what I liked about the movie.

I think that it can provoke these kinds of conversations. Maybe with your partner or with your friends, or even just in your own mind. It really has made me take a lot of things into consideration. But the honest thing is we could go through scene by scene what happens, what people say. We’ve already talked about the tensions in their relationship, but they’re also very comfortable with one another.

They have, you know, little. Jokes with one another. There’s humor. What ultimately happens is, I guess I should say, she meets a friend at work, a guy that I initially thought was putting the moves on her. 

Todd: Yeah, I thought so too. 

Craig: Even though she made it very clear that she was in a relationship. But even that she refers, she says boyfriend sounds juvenile partner.

I don’t know, Mike. My partner, Tim, my boy, partner Tim, like kind of minimizing, not my man friend or my man partner, my boy, partner Tim. And you get the feeling that that’s kind of how she thinks about it. 

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: she says that outright. But this neighbor who will come back and be significant later, he’s like, oh, I just lived down the street from you.

The neighborhood’s really quiet. Basically I am the neighborhood. He says, and the hiking trails are fantastic. So they go on a hike. 

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: And they get caught in the rain and they get lost and they fall in that same hole that we saw earlier. Now we don’t, you can’t tell what it is, but it doesn’t look entirely natural.

There’s something, I don’t wanna say supernatural, but unnatural about it. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Like there are seemingly manmade things in there. Like there’s wood and there’s bells. These ornate bells that kind of mark this off the path path. That’s how they get to it. And, and they fall in there and it’s kind of a pit and the weather is terrible and they’re lost.

And so they just decide because it’s dry in there to spend the night. But when I say there are unnatural elements to it, there is this strange. Hole. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: That, I don’t really know how to describe it. It almost giant bottle looks like it’s kind of 

Todd: a little bit, sorry to say 

Craig: a really giant one, and it’s like, it’s like black.

It’s gaping red. They only have a partial bottle of water and he’s like, do you think this is safe? And he drinks it, but she’s like, I’m not drinking that. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Which again, I didn’t really pick up on the first time around. He drinks it and she doesn’t. 

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: They spend the night, he wakes up to some sort of weird, I don’t know, hallucination where it seems like the cave or, or whatever it is that they’re in it’s self is alive as though they’re inside a living being, and it is like respirating and aspirating.

Todd: Yeah. That was cool. 

Craig: It was cool. There are a lot, this is a body horror movie too, and there are some really good effects. There’s some really good practical effects, and then later there are perfectly good digital effects. Later on, we’re talking all, you know, all about this relationship stuff because I think that really, that is what is central to what’s most important about the movie, but it is a body horror movie and this is a movie for horror fans.

And if you are a horror fan, I think you will like it, especially if you like thoughtful, smart movies. 

Todd: Yeah, I, I think the movie does a good job too of, of really keeping us on our toes. It is a little bit of a fake out. Is it Supernatural? Yeah, I guess so. Because it is supernatural this idea that what’s going to happen happens.

But also there’s that moment where you had talked about earlier that we learned that he had this traumatic experience of seeing his crazy mother and his dead father earlier. And there’s this moment also where he has a, a kind of hallucination too. Where he sees his mother coming up from underneath the covers at him, this creepy looking face kind of almost possessed looking.

And there was a point at which I wondered if this was a bit of a ghost story or a haunted house story because of the rats in the ceiling and this, this creepy face or whatever. And as it gets unpacked, we realized mostly we’re in their minds, you know? Yeah. This stuff that’s happening is really hallucinations and thoughts and that are going through their heads as they’re going through these changes and they’re going through this experience.

So on the one hand, I thought I did a really good job early on of. Of having these jump scares and things, but they really made a lot of sense because it was so psychological what we were seeing. Ultimately, it beco, you know, I, I’m, I’m thinking throughout this whole movie how much of this is psychological and how much of this is supernatural.

But it was only later that I realized that their neighbor, Jamie, had a sinister motive in all this. He, I guess, kind of led them, he didn’t lead them down that path, but he’s the one who suggested they go hiking in the woods, and Yes. And he keeps continually checking in on them. And he has this little relationship to this woman.

And, and again, he doesn’t really push himself, but he’s presented himself in such a way as such a confidante to her that she naturally goes to him. Again, I’m, as I’m watching this movie, I’m thinking, oh, this is trouble. You know, this is that third party that, that she, that she’s, that’s, that’s kind of trying to edge his way in on their relationship, but then when she goes over to his house to express her concern about what’s happening, you know, she really doesn’t have anyone else to turn to.

Craig: Right. 

Todd: And again, does this happen in a. In relationships where we, we feel like we need to get a third opinion, a second opinion. It does happen. And so she goes to that neighbor. And it’s really interesting because during that period of time at his house, I realized, okay, he’s actually not trying to put the moves on her.

Craig: No, he’s gay. 

Todd: Yeah, he’s gay. Exactly. He’s got a partner. And so Oh, okay. But the partner’s not there. And I wasn’t really sure. He’s a little vague about talking about it. Right. 

Craig: He says that when they came there, they, he, he says, we were probably much like you were young and with the same kind of problems you had.

And there actually was a point where he left, but then he came back and we’re, we’re together now. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: This is foreshadowing. That was subtle enough that I really didn’t catch on and I didn’t either. 

Todd: I didn’t either. 

Craig: And, and I had to, I had to read some things before, you know, the, before, the second time I watched it, I read the trivia and so I read some of the spoilers, but there are little suggestions.

We don’t see the other partner. We see a picture of the two of them together, but neither of the two men in that picture look exceptionally like the man that we’re talking to. And he’s wearing two wedding rings, not on both hands, but it, it’s like he has a double band on his wedding band finger, which I never would’ve get, uh, noticed.

And even if I had, I don’t know that I would’ve thought anything of it. Yeah, just a 

Todd: style. 

Craig: Yeah. Right. Also, he offers her water, which I never would’ve questioned. That’s what you do. You, you know, somebody comes to your house, particularly if they’re in duress. You offer them something. 

Todd: Oh, I didn’t catch this.

He offered her the special water. 

Craig: He offers her water and she drinks it. Because up until then, the effects of the water had only been happening to Jamie. Now we kind of skipped over that. When they wake up in the cave, they’re fine, but their legs are stuck together and like painfully so, and they have to rip them apart to the point that they both have abrasions on their licks, but they pass it off as nothing.

But then she tries to go to work and as she’s driving, he has a weird experience in the shower where like every time she turns a corner, he gets thrust in that direction, like into the wall of the shower. 

Todd: That was wonderful. 

Craig: It looks fantastic there. And it, it seems that there is some sort of psychic connection.

He goes to a, a doctor 

Todd: who gives him 

Craig: diazepam, but then he is supposed to go off and do a gig. She drops him off at the train station and immediately when she leaves, I think the closest thing that I would describe it to is somebody in like severe drug withdrawal. That’s what he, his appearance looks like.

And he’s drawn to her so much that he walks away from the train station, leaving behind all of his equipment and luggage and all of that stuff, walks to her school. And he said, I just, she’s like, what are you doing? You’re not supposed to be here. You’re supposed to be on the train. He said, I couldn’t be without you.

I have to be with you. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And they bang in the bathroom stall, which they shouldn’t do, but I get it. She hasn’t gotten any in a long time. 

Todd: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Craig: The, the, uh, the interesting part about this scene is they both seem very relieved. Like there is a emotional release with the physical one, and, and they, you know, feel good, they feel comfortable together.

Until they realize that there’s a kid on the outside of the stall and they start to freak out and she’s like, you have to get out of here. And he can’t get out of her. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And it’s painful. And they show it. And I was surprised that they showed it. 

Todd: I was too. My goodness. 

Craig: And it looked real. I read that, I think the director’s partner worked for a sex toy company or something like that.

And so he was able to get a very realistic looking sex toy. And they, uh, for free, yeah. Jazz. They jazzed it up with some pubic hair. The kid runs and gets the teacher friend, and the teacher friend comes in, is like, is everything okay? So she’s embarrassed. She’s afraid she’s gonna get fired. That’s when she goes to his house, he gives her the water, then they have a fight.

He says, there’s something going on. You know, I’m drawn to you. It’s dangerous. And she’s angry at him. She could have got, he could have gotten her fired and she ultimately says to him, my parents are coming tomorrow. Or the next day or so, I don’t know, whatever, and I don’t think you should be here. And he’s like, what does that mean?

She says, it means I don’t want you. Like she’s decided that she doesn’t wanna be with him anymore. She says, I think you should sleep in the guest room. And he says, I think you’re absolutely right. We should stay as far away from each other as possible. 

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: In the night, their bodies are magnetically drawn to one another.

While they are unconscious and he wakes to find himself being moved, you know, it’s not like there’s some sort of being like pulling him or something, but he’s like, it, it’s as though he’s being magnetically drawn to her across the floor, and then her door opens and she’s being drawn to him and her body is contorting to try to get to him quickly.

And when they ultimately do get together, they grab hands and their hands go into one another’s flesh. And it’s good. It’s good. It’s really good. It’s, uh, and they’re both terrified, of course. And they’re pulling and trying to get away from each other. And he says, my, my pills, the muscle relaxants, if, if we take those, maybe we can pull apart.

And so they take them and they crush them and, and snort them. You know, they’re on the floor, they’re, they’re struggling against one another, but they get these down and ultimately they pass out. When he wakes up, she has them taped to a chair. They’re still connected, but she. Tell them the drugs are gonna wear off, it’s gonna keep happening.

I have to hack saw us apart. 

Todd: Yes. That was funny actually. I, 

Craig: and I, I thought it was funny. I thought it was funny because it’s still their dynamic. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: She’s the one that has to be decisive Yeah. And make a choice. 

Todd: Mm-hmm. 

Craig: And, and she does. And he’s initially against it, but she rationalizes with him and he says, you’re right.

Do it. They do. My favorite shot of the whole movie is Cheese Hack sawing them. They’re screaming, blood is flying everywhere. It does an immediate quick cut to a long shot of them both sitting apart. He’s on the right side of the screen sitting against the. Cabinets, cheese on the left side of the screen sitting against the sink or something, and they’re both just sitting there like eating something like sheep.

Todd: Right. This is interesting. I think this kind of metaphor too, you know, of this point in the relationship, like, oh shit. Like we need to make a choice. You know, if we take this into the real world, you have a traumatic thing. You’re going through difficult times. Suddenly you’re faced with this idea, should we be together or not?

Right? And there’s this tension there where you’re going back and forth and you’re like, well, this is, this is why we would, this is why we wouldn’t, this is like a physical manifestation of that. They’re drawn together, but they’re scared by it. So then they kind of hack each other up and they go, go separately, and then they almost go on their own little, separate journeys to explore.

Right. 

Craig: Well they, they, she wants them to go to the hospital to get more drugs because they only have a couple pills left. And he’s like, doctors aren’t gonna be able to help us. 

Todd: Exactly. Yeah. 

Craig: He wants to go to the cave. She insists they go to the hospital, but they can’t because she left her keys at Jamie’s house.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Okay. 

Todd: All right. 

Craig: So she goes to get the keys and she says, don’t do anything stupid. He immediately runs to the cave. So yeah, they’re on their little journeys and they both basically figure out the same thing. Just in different horrible ways. 

Todd: Yeah, exactly. Tim Cece’s faces in the rocks and inside the cave.

It’s like, again, like the rocks themselves are all these fused bodies and people and things. It’s very interesting. Yeah. Millie somehow sees a vision of this ritual, doesn’t she? 

Craig: Jamie, the friend, had said to her before she abruptly left his house before, I’ve got this wedding video that I want you to watch when she comes over.

It’s his wedding video, but it’s this odd ceremony. Apparently this cave is a collapsed church that collapsed into the ground, and I don’t know if this is like sacred ground, but. They can do these ceremonies. We see his wedding was him and his fiance, his husband or whatever. They cut their arms and they fused them together, and they fused together into one person, and he is now the two of them fused into one.

He gives her a whole big exposition about how there are legends, about how initially human beings had like four 

Todd: arms and four 

Craig: legs, four arms and four legs and two faces. But Zeus felt that their bonds were too powerful, so he split them up and that’s why we spend our whole lives looking for our soulmates.

And he’s like, it’s the most beautiful thing. He’s like, yeah, this part sucks, but it’s gonna be so great. 

Todd: Wouldn’t like the alternative. He said, 

Craig: you wouldn’t like the alternative and, and Tim sees the alternative. I said very, I just breezed over it in the very beginning that there was another missing couple that had disappeared from that same area right before they got there.

And in the cave, Tim sees them and they’re horribly fused together. It’s monstrous. It’s like the fly. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And I don’t understand why. I don’t understand if it was because they were resistant to it, because they didn’t accept it, but apparently they’re just a caved, dwelling freak now. So he escapes the cave.

He also sees. He also sees the imagery of, of the ceremony in the cave as well. 

Todd: Yeah. Real quick, is that a metaphor for people who kind of stay together in an unhappy union anyway? 

Craig: I don’t know. 

Todd: I sort of feel like that is, like this couple, they’re staying together anyway, but they’re not happy or they’re not, they can’t become one.

They’re not Maybe the the soulmates, right. That, that he said earlier. 

Craig: Yeah. Maybe they’re not compatible. I, uh, I don’t know. 

Todd: Yeah. It’s a thought. Anyway. 

Craig: I don’t know. They, they meet up in their driveway and initially they say we have to stay far away from each other, but then that magnetism causes them to get drawn together.

There’s more of her body contortions, which I don’t know how, I didn’t read anything about how that was done. I don’t know if she did her stunts or. If, if they brought in a contortionist or if it’s dummies. I have no idea, but it looks pretty cool. But ultimately they’re, they’re drawn together and he says something like, there’s only one way to end this.

And then all of a sudden they’re really not drawn together. This, 

Todd: huh? 

Craig: Like, 

Todd: yeah. 

Craig: They’re about, I don’t know, five or six feet away and, and they’ve been having to hold onto things to keep from coming together, but they can just stop like five or six feet away from each other and stand there and have a conversation.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And he does this whole monologue. He gets down on his knees, just a knee, just as she had at the party and opens a fake ring box just as she had at the party. She’s like, is this what you really want? He’s like, yes. It’s, you know, this is I think, the culmination of his journey. He says, yes, this is what I want.

I was just scared before I was holding on to some juvenile stupid dream. And I love you so much, and I just wanna be with you. But then he tells her to turn around and he’s holding a knife behind his back. I, the implication is clear that he’s going to kill himself to prevent this from happening. But she does a turnaround and he looks down to see that there’s a trail of blood coming towards him.

And he sees that she, did she cut herself? 

Todd: I’m not sure. I’m really not sure. I think she cut She, 

Craig: I think she cut herself because I think that the implication is that she made the sacrifice before he could, before he could even do the whole proposal thing. And before they kind of had this moment of, we do love each other.

She had already made the sacrifice ah, for him. Then she falls to the ground, he screams, it cuts to black, it opens on him carrying her into the house, and she’s regaining consciousness. And she says, what happened? And he says, it was the only way that I could stop the bleeding. And it shows that his hand is fused.

To her arm and she says, I was trying to set you free. And he says, do you want us to be free or do you want me to go free or something? And she shakes her head no. And there’s some very brief conversation about are we really gonna do this? They do, he puts on her favorite album, which, you know, he made a romantic gesture when they first met.

That’s why she fell in love with them. She likes The Spice Girls. He’s a big music snob, but he got her the Spice Girls album on vinyl, and that’s what kind of made her fall in love with him. And, uh, he pulls it out and puts it on 

Todd: and it’s, it’s on the nose. 

Craig: It’s the Spice Girls Song two Become One, which is not, it’s like one of their only ballads.

And 

Todd: it’s funny, 

Craig: uh, I was a big fan of the Spice Girls in the nineties, but, uh, it, it wasn’t necessarily one of their best and it’s cheesy, and I didn’t care. Yeah. I thought that it was charming and fitting and sweet and they laugh about it. And that’s the best, that’s the best thing in my opinion about relationships, is having somebody to laugh with.

Having someone to share those moments of silliness with. They dance and they take their clothes off. She, her boobs are out, which I’m sure you were thrilled about. 

Todd: Oh yeah. 

Craig: She’s got really nice, she’s got really nice 

Todd: boobs. She does, she does really nice. But that must be why she exposes them in almost everything she’s in, I, 

Craig: she looks great.

I think that they’re both very attractive people and they meld in a disgusting way and it doesn’t look entirely without discomfort or pain, but it also is very intimate. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: You know, their, their hands are all over and inside one another, and ultimately their faces come so close together that their eyeballs touch and begin to meld and then it cuts away and the next thing you see is a car pulling up and you’re reminded that her parents were coming and her mother notices blood on the ground, but just.

Pauses for a moment, then continues to the front door and they ring the doorbell and the person that opens it is an amalgamation of the two of them. So they have bonded and they achieved that through practical effects and some digital work too. They gave her his eyebrows, but her eye color and some of his bone structure, and it’s a little freakish to be honest with you, but it is.

Yeah, you, you, you get the point. And though they were. Forced into this. Really? I was left feeling that though. I didn’t really know how to feel about it, that ultimately they were at peace with it. 

Todd: It seemed Well, I mean, there was a point of choosing, right. So, I mean, I guess that that’s what they were. He could’ve 

Craig: let her die.

Todd: Yeah. So I mean, I’m also not sure how I feel about, is it a happy ending? Is it not? You know, this is something I guess people could talk about and consider. I think it’s pretty open-ended, you know, whether this is a good thing or not. I mean, it’s a horror movie. I, it is kind of ultimately, like you said, maybe not what we would all prefer.

We wanna maintain some degree of individuality and not literally be one person. But I can see what it is. It’s about giving yourself to the relationship. You know, both people do that and then that’s the result is there is not one person. But one relationship. And so that’s, 

Craig: and in a relationship, in my experience though, you do maintain your individuality.

You do very much become a unit too. 

Todd: Yes, 

Craig: in, in lots of good ways. You can rely on one another and people begin to view you as a unit, which is sometimes frustrating, but ultimately, in my experience, it’s been very rewarding. I do like to meld bodies with Alan occasionally, but not that way. 

Todd: Right. I, I think I’m wired to want the relationship.

I’m fine both ways. Honestly. I could be single the rest of my life and be completely happy with it. I’ve experienced both. It’s not a threatening thing for me. You know, earlier I think you had said that, you know, it’s just not for some people, and I think that’s true. 

Craig: Mm-hmm. 

Todd: I think that you have to have a lot of self-confidence.

I think you have to feel good about yourself first. 

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. 

Todd: In order to give yourself to somebody else, if you can’t comfortable in your own skin, you becomes very threatening and I think you could, you can lose yourself or feel like you’re losing yourself when you are asked to give up. To another person.

And so, you know, it, it’s really, there’s a lot. This is why there are counselors who just specialize in this stuff. Right, right. You know, and help people through it. So, but, but ultimately, I, I feel like the movie is positing that these two people made a choice that they are better together than a part. And so this whole supernatural thing just forced the issue of making that decision and making that commitment.

Right. And they did that. And so I see it as a happy ending for them in a way. 

Craig: Yeah, I do too. A, a again, you know, this was a very different kind of episode, listeners, so I, I, I don’t know. I hope you enjoyed it. It was, I I had a lot of fun talking about it. 

Todd: Oh yeah. 

Craig: But I, I do wanna reiterate that. I just think it’s, it’s a, a very, it’s a quality film.

It’s well made, nice to look at, 

Todd: oh man. Some of the shots, the cinematography in here, the lighting is just gorgeous. 

Craig: Yeah. The story is engaging, the acting is really good. It’s a very limited cast and they all do a very good job. And it’s an engaging and intriguing story. I was never bored. It, it actually moved, I thought it moved very quickly.

It’s about an hour and 45 minutes long, but it, it moved quickly and it was fun to watch that. Couple who have a real life intimate relationship be able to portray an intimate, intimate relationship on screen. And I thought that they both did an excellent job. 

Todd: They really did. Some actors can pull off, you know, a really convincing relationship on screen without ever actually being married, of 

Craig: course.

Todd: But, you know, it obviously it, it’s easier or it, you know, it kind of lends a different dynamic when the couple is married. You can almost always tell, you know, there’s always something a little special about those movies where the, the couple’s married in real life and you could just see just a little additional spark that isn’t always there.

Well, guys, this was like Craig said, a very different kind of episode, uh, for us, but, uh, not unusual for us to chatter a little bit about our personal lives and about feelings and thoughts that are tangentially related to the movie or not at all. Right? If you enjoyed this episode and you just enjoyed, uh, hearing us talk, you might want to consider going to our Patreon where you can be exposed to the entire phone call that we do.

One of the benefits for our patrons is that you get the before and after chatter and all the little things that we cut out in the middle for just five bucks a month, you can get all of that every single week as well as the advanced copy. Of the podcast ’cause we put that out before I finish editing the episode every single week.

You can also get involved in our book club that’s there. It’s really a lot of fun. We have a Zoom call every couple weeks where we discuss a new horror book that we’re reading and that’s turned out to be a nice little community. There’s a lot of chatter that goes on behind the scenes. That’s a mini sos.

Lots of other benefits You can get patreon.com/chainsaw podcast. Please consider that. Also, if you enjoyed what we were talking about, uh, share this with a friend who you think might be interested. That’s one of the best ways that we get around is word of mouth. And also leave us a review on your favorite podcast site, like Apple Podcasts.

As long as it’s positive, we love to hear all those reviews. You can reach out to us also by clicking on our website, talk to us, and if you send us a little video, me a little voice message. There is just, uh, up to 90 seconds long. Go straight to us. You don’t need any special software. You have to register, sign up for anything to that.

And when we receive that message, we’d love to hear that feedback from you and we will play it on the air and address it. Until next time, I am Todd. 

Craig: And I’m Craig 

Todd: with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.